Where as Ciaran I voted Labour last time and the shiiiite they and FG have poured out have turned me towards SF, all I hear is SF.. “if they get into power it will ruin us,” that seems to be it, thats the whole argument where as FF,FG and Labour have shown their true colours and there’s not a country to ruin any more the only good bits left are now owned by foreign investors who don’t give a shite about the rest of us

So which good bits that are left are owned by foreign investors Vannin?

With so many political groups in this country, nobody gets the government they want even if they told the truth…. two parties join together who barely get 50% of the votes and then have to compromise on everything…. no wonder nobody is happy…

They would hang the country out to dry as well now that the Greek left has been exposed.
Bond spreads now over 10%, billions wiped off stock exchange, billions in cash leaving the country every day and Syriza committing extra public spend as we speak but yet rowing back on debt defaulting as if that will fix it anyway.

Most of us feared it here and now it’s happening in front of pur eyes.

They were warned and still pressed the self-destruct button.

Going to be very interesting hearing Paul Murphy, RBB, Sinn Fein etc defending this aporoach and blaming everybody else here for this aporoach failing.

James it’s early days in Greece,I’ll reserve judgement for just a while longer.Someone is going to blink and I think the Greeks have decided it’s a staring competition.

Wow, James, Syriza were supposed to fix the country in a few days?

And remind me, how did the centre-right fare economically all through Europe and America over the last ten years?

You saying they are in a better place now George?

James I think you’ll find George is making the point they only formed a government 4 days ago,things will get worse for them before they get better.
How long do you think the EU will harangue Greece for if Moscow starts making overtures to Athens?

“sinn fein blaming everyone else for this approach failing”? Were Sinn Fein or Syriza or left wing parties governing in the times that led to the crisis? Did SF sell out the citizens of Ireland to the IMF in the first place? Dont worry about spreads when you cant afford any more debt in the first place! Would be hard to see how SF could f*** it up any worse than FF or FG/Labour.

If anybody thinks it would be harder to mess up an economy worse than the centre governments in Europe then keep an eye on Greece.
We don’t need to wait and ‘give Syriza a chance’ because it’s happening in front of our eyes.
No debt writedown will compensate for economic policy suicide and expanding a public sector beyond an economies capacity.
The left experiment is in full flow and it’s fascinating but sad to watch. Their choice is to row back or regress to a Third World country. As it stands Syriza have rowed back but it’s not half enough yet.

James – you may be omitting the fact that the economies in question have already been completely messed up by centre right parties. Debt levels are not sustainable. There are no good options for Greece now precisely because of what transpired under centre/ right governance. At this stage if a centre/ right party were to continue on in Greece it would be more of the same (debt) until something gives – and something has to give (default). Syriza may just burst the balloon sooner for them that might be a better option for the country in the longer term.

So Vincent do you think Syriza’s policies and election platform will leave the Greek people in a better place? Yes or no?

Jim you make complete sense. To be fair I feel the Greeks just got so broken down and frustrated at the prospect of being beaten down for years more. Had we been the same we might vote that way too out of frustration. But things have improved I’ve noticed it and personally felt it.

But while this country is 90% right wing the 10% will flock here to boost their perceived support.

But yes fully agree with you

James – i dont know that for certain and obviously nobody does – including you. My point is that if Greece continued on the same path then I am sure that they would be worse off than they are now. So something had to change. And what were the other options?? The people of Greece, who are closer to their own situation than we are, chose Syriza as their option and good luck to them.

Vincent the options were to continue as they were and when the European economy was back in growth then get the breaks.
Greece cannot maintain its previous standards of living because they were based on borrowed money.
They had their budget deficit fixed, were getting back to the markets, debt repayments were being met and now they are throwing it all away and they will be left to swing.

Personally I don’t want to see a right down of the €350 million that Greece owe Ireland. They don’t agree with austerity, not much sign that they accept they lied true there teeth about the state of their finances when borrowing way beyond their ability to pay. Greece debt is not quite the same as Irish debt, They should be at least showing some responsibility around the mess they are in.

And thats a FACT

Gormless Gorman

You’re entitled your opinion, but not you’re own facts.

Before the election, Greece was already about to need another bail out, but this was put on hold pending the election. Whilst the budget cuts dictated by the Troika have destroyed the country, they have only achieved a surplus EXCLUDING debt interest payments. But this is no where near enough anyway to repay €7 billion in bonds coming due in July this year.

Greece had no access to a bond market before the election. Secondary bond market interest was never below 5% last year and had been over 7% since October when it was already clear Greece would need another Troika program very soon. These are not sustainable interest rates for any country with 175% plus debt/GDP.

The various Austerity conditions carried out over the past five years have crippled the country and its ability to create the economic activity to make the debt affordable. Killing aggregate demand by slashing Gov spending does not grow an economy – it does the opposite. Syriza has been elected because Greeks know only too well the reality of this failure.

And this exact same failure is playing out in all the economies of the Eurozone – either recession or stagnation, even in Germany itself, despite its manufacturing export sector.

Like most people, you appear to conflate the finance of a household or business with that of the macro economics of a country. In macro economics, cutting back & saving ‘costs’ is not consequence free. Someone’s spending is always someone else’s income. And you do not grow a whole economy, or increase its debt service capability, by making its workforce redundant.

But I don’t think you actually want to understand macro economics properly at all out of ideological dislike of the Government’s doing anything for citizens? Which is the position of the top few percent, Capital owners, political classes etc. who can continue to increase their own wealth & make lucrative future investments in the depressed asset price conditions of recession and mass unemployment.

Do not believe a single stat for GDP, GNP, labour costs, productivity or any other economic indicators coming out of Ireland either. The various accounting practises for tax purposes, booking massive earnings thru’ ‘Irish’ companies little more than nameplates, and recent other changes in measurement procedures, render the official stats worthless.

Even things like unemployment stats are not what they appear.

Have a look at Michael Hennigan’s Finfacts blog to see the full extent of the data mess.

@Mike Hall

Do you think it’s in order to personally abuse a stranger on social media who is giving an opinion respectfully?

Sure, when you’re peddling obvious drivel, I think the description ‘gormless’ is quite acceptable.

What exactly is your excuse for peddling all your rubbish as facts?

@Mike Hall

So your opinion is the only one that matters and if someone has the opposite view albeit expressed respectfully then it’s acceptable to be personally abusive and derogatory to them.

Is that what you are saying Mike Hall?

Mike Hall, I agree with you, most people don’t understand the difference between the economics of the householder and the macro economics of running a country.
A country cannot use high taxation and austerity to turn around a recession. Growth is required and to stimulate growth there must be demand. Demand can only be created by putting money in peoples pockets and restoring confidence to spend and invest. The Greeks must be allowed a reasonable time to see if their anti austerity policies will work. One thing is for certain and that is that the last 5 years have not worked for them.
I think that if nothing else, it will be an interesting experiement for the rest of europe, which if it suceeds, will provide us all with a pathway out of this.

Gorman

You’ve made a number of claims here, vital to understand Greece’s situation, which are factually incorrect and readily discovered…

Among others you’ve said Greece had returned to markets for Gov borrowing – it categorically had not.

Answer my question, why are you peddling such obvious drivel as ‘fact’ ??

In fact Syriza’s proposal is for restructuring of debt (not a default), via a Eurozone debt conference, and to apply such a policy across all Eurozone countries in order to counter the disastrous failure of Austerity universally.

Irish economist Rory Hearne explains here… very reasonable in my opnion. The Eurozone system, as a currency union, is still deeply flawed, but this proposal would enable recovery to begin whilst these issues are addressed, and if no long term agreement on reform can be reached, orderly exits would be possible from positions of economic health.

“…. Syriza is calling for a European debt conference similar to the ‘London Agreement’ after the Second World War, which wrote off around 60% of Germany’s debts and extended the timeline for repayment by decades.

It proposes a writedown of all eurozone debt over 50% of GDP. This is not to be done through unilateral debt default but requires the ECB to play a central role. Under the proposals, the ECB would buy up the excess debt and convert it to zero-coupon bonds which would ultimately be paid back by governments. This includes a five-year grace period (a moratorium) on debt repayments. It is obvious how Ireland would gain dramatically from this.

Our debt would be more than halved from 108% of GDP to 50% and interest payments would fall to just over €3.5bn. If interest payments were suspended for five years, that would leave us with an additional €7.5bn per annum…. ”

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/analysis/ireland-should-join-in-calls-for-a-european-debt-conference-309072.html

@Mike Hall

You address the question around your bad manners and then we can engage respectfully.

Do you think it is appropriate to personally abuse a poster because they have a different opinion?

Gorman

Why didn’t you bother to do even some basic research (like 5 mins) before peddling your fiction as fact (and dumb concluding opinions) ?

Is there a polite way to say you’re an idiot? Or perhaps your intention here was to deliberately deceive with ‘facts’ in order to peddle your political/ideological view? Is that why you have nothing to reply on the issue of your false ‘facts’ and prefer to deflect by whining about my using a mild pejorative iteration on your name? (Grow a pair please, and take your ‘facts’ somewhere else.)

@Mike Hall

While you ignore having the manners of a 2 year old do you really think I’m going to engage with you. Answer my question above and il happily respond then.

Also Mike I do have a first name.

Gorman

I really don’t care if ‘engage’ or not. You’ve shown zero respect for facts or diligence in the peddling of your opnion that Greece was somehow recovering before this election – it plainly wasn’t & was about to need a further bail out program. No surprise at all, and predicted by many of us, with sound +macro+ economic reasoning.

Have you bothered to read the Hearne article? Somehow, I doubt it, as it won’t accord with your predjudicial views will it?

@Mike Hall

I think its fairly obvious now that if you don’t agree with what someone posts here you think it’s fair to personally abuse and post derogatively about them.

I wouldn’t expect anybody to debate with someone on those terms and I certainly won’t while you hold that entitlement. Pity.

Basic manners doesn’t require much upbringing or education.

James basically as Mike pointed out you haven’t a clue about your “facts” but will use a slight which Mike shouldn’t have used to avoid backing up your comments.
Btw check out BBC news there’s a bit of info there that totally contradicts you.

No problem responding to you Norman
What do you want to ask me?
Manners cost nothing

No just the EMC Ryan,you do know the constitution states a minimum number of ministers in the decision making process.

Knuckle dragger

Minimum of 7 Ryan …… maximum of 15
The fact that this Government has recognised the maximum – it must also recognise the minimum or breach the Constitution …

…….. life !

Christy -
Listen to the 92% – your generation caused or allowed the problem to fester – make way for the generation that have been forced to shell out for it –
That or we will have to clean out the pipes in the Dail Bar and put barrels of Complan instead !

If there is a minimum age for The President – then there should be a compulsory age for the retirement of politicians – In fact any politician who is entitled to a pension is by definition denying someone else a job and blocking progress from the nextgeneration – new ideas innovative Ideas etc.

And no it’s not ageism – look at the army , the gardai and indeed the civil service – compulsory retirement ! – But the “special ” ones in the Dail can ignore these rules – “Equality in the eyes of the law ” – ????

The day I fear the shinners lol.

Let’s make coolock the new center for enlightenment. Finglas the promised land.

Oh please :)

I assume therefore only Shinner voters live in Finglas