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THE TECHNICAL GROUP has called on the Government to rethink the prospect of a European Debt Conference.
Group whip Catherine Murphy has tabled a Private Members’ motion calling on Fine Gael and Labour to support such a meeting.
In the document, Murphy and several other independent and Sinn Féin TDs note that the financial crisis “highlighted the deviation from the founding principles and values of the European Union, such as solidarity and mutual respect amongst nations”.
The motion describes Ireland as “a casualty of timing”, adding that the socialisation of private banking debts amounted to “sacrificing the social and economic interests of Irish citizen”.
Speaking at the launch of the motion, Murphy said the country’s debt burden has caused “lack of fiscal expansion and lack of investment” that needs to be addressed.
We have so often heard promises of a ‘game changer’, well here is the opportunity … This is an unprecedented moment whereby we can tackle the debt crisis head on while there is a momentum across Europe to discuss debt and it’s wider issues.
“That the Irish Government have not joined in calls for a European Debt Conference just does not make sense. Surely, if we’ve learned any lessons from the bank guarantee it is that public inclusion and involvement in vital matters that affect their lives is vital. This is a public matter, it is not a private matter for Government and that should be respected.”
TCD Finance Professor Brian Lucey said that a Europe-wide debt conference is “a political, social and economic no-brainer”.
You cannot dig yourself out of a hole. It’s is time to put the moralising aside and start looking at solutions.
Michael Taft, from Unite trade union, described such a conference as “imperative” as the high level of Irish debt has a “massive impact on the daily lives of citizens”.
The motion will be debated in the Dáil tonight and tomorrow night.
New Greek prime minister Alexis Tsipras was first to propose the idea.
Both Finance Minister Michael Noonan and Social Protection Minister Joan Burton initially indicated support for the idea, but Enda Kenny was less keen.
The Taosieach told the Dáil that such issues will be debated at Eurogroup and Ecofin meetings by European finance and economic ministers.
Kenny said he wished Tsipras and his government “well in the challenge that they face”.
Yesterday, Tsipras announced that his government would be making proposals for “a menu of debt swaps” that would avoid the need for any of the country’s €315 billion mountain of foreign debt to be written off.
The move would involve the issuing of two new types of bonds. One would be linked to nominal economic growth to refinance European rescue loans, and the other would be “perpetual bonds” that would replace Greek bonds owned by the European Central Bank.
This approach would avoid creditors having to take a ‘haircut’ on the Greek debt, an outcome that is fiercely opposed by several EU countries led by Germany.
Given the painful regime of spending cuts that had to be endured by Irish people, the country will be watching the outcome of any such proposal with great interest.
Additional reporting: AFP
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Kenny not to keen on the idea, of course he isn’t wants to keep the boys in Europe happy so when he’s kicked out in the next election he will still have a job in Europe. What a tosser.
D L
Maybe even a job on the board of Irish Water.
Nothing would surprise me these days.
Of course there should be a debt conference. Only problem is Enda would be there.
Maybe that’s a good thing. The Greek finance minister seems to be going a better job for us than end a and his ilk :-/
Yes a debt conference to decide on TD’s cutting their wages and pensions….
Look at the Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis, who talked a lot of sense on RT television for the program Boomburst. Even looking up his C.V. shows how intelligent he is as the last place he worked was in Texas as a professor.
If we leave the Euro we might have a chance
Do youthink that a change of government can make Greece debt disappear – not a chance..
Kenny said he wished Tsipras and his government “well in the challenge that they face”.
Kenny added that he would be more than willing to contribute towards creating that challenge
I have just been listing to the motion from the technical group on the debit conference. I can tell you now, listening to the reply from the Government benches, they have no interest whatsoever, in any debit conference.
Peter, the debt conference would entail a massive loss of face for the Government. They will not support this.
I’m printing over 60 billion euros a month out of thin air working part time for the ECB. I kept hearing other people tell me how much money they can make at central banks so I decided to look into it. Well, it was all true and has totally changed my life. This is what I do..
Print Euros to buy interest bearing bonds
Wait until the interest on those loans cannot be paid off by Governments unless they incur more debt
Wait until there is blood in the streets and print more Euros so I can buy real assets such as water rights, minerals and real estate.
Rig markets so that those real assets rise in value
Anthony
If they are not working in the interest of the Irish people, they no longer have a mandate. Unfortunately we have to wait for the opportunity to remove them, and elect a Government that will put the people first.
Peter, absolutely true. The interests of the people have been sold out to protect the banking system and the flawed euro.
Michael Sands our politicians are chosen from failed school teachers, small town solicitors and the odd dodgy barrister….
Anthony Lang the loss of face the government would have will be nothing to what will happen to the lot of them next election
If we leave the Euro then that will be on our terms and it would be organised, it wouldn’t be pretty but on the other hand if the euro collapses or go down the drain then we as as country will flatline, there will be total chaos and then it will be too late to do anything then as we will not have anything to back up what we would have to use as a currency then?
Greece’s finance minister Yanis Varoufakis was a professor of Economics in Texas and is famous for his straight talking and common sense and he knows more about economics than most of them in the E.U. What people forget is that it was the E.U. Troika and the IMF that made Greek debt far worse than it was due to them joining the Euro when they were not fit to join, the Euro is a micky mouse currency at its heart.
Kenny likes the limielight I think?
Limelight I mean.
Howlin kept on saying that everything they were doing was done by the MANDATE that there were voted to do but I can’t see that in their 2011 manifesto anywhere, can you lol.
http://www.labour.ie/download/pdf/labour_election_manifesto_2011_reform.pdf
Gus everyone knows it is an ould boys club here but many do not realise that it is the same in the E.U. but there like here is run by big business as in banks, U.S. Corporations etc etc. That is why when politicians go over to the E.U. from here they wet themselves will joy as it is the same system as here but with that much more money?
Love Catherine Murphy, when you look past the slightly boring demeanour, you find a calm, measured, direct and hugely effective public representative and legislator.
Stop spending so much money on irish water when you are never going to get it back, absolute morons.
The banksters would be horrified to think that the poster boy of austerity Ireland would be part of a debt conference that would help not just Greece but Ireland to shift the burden of banksters debts that generations of Irish people are saddled with whilst health water and housing infrastructure are bled dry.
If the new Greek government manages to get a debt write down a few weeks after taking office, questions will need to be asked about our own government’s performance. Squeaky bum time for Enda and Noonan, I think.
Catherine Murphy’s seat is safe !
#NoBrainer.. It’s easy knowing Hugh didn’t write this!
Ireland’s mainstream political leaders FG, Lab, FF again being shown up by Greece for the self-serving toe rags they are….. and that goes for their various ‘advisers’ in Govt departments and elsewhere.
Yes, indeed, a European debt conference for a flawed and failing (for ordinary citizens) Euro project, a mere 7yrs after the mess began….
While we’re at it, let’s talk about why the Eurozone has failed, and either agree on the needed reforms to make it work, or determine to revert to our individual sovereignty and the national currencies that define sovereignty in any meaningful way.
Oh, and dump from public office all those neo liberal ideologues responsible for this largest system of misery and theft from ordinary citizens in Europe’s history. (And actually regulate banking, or take it over as a public utility…)
Mike Hall, as always, cogent and insightful. Thank you. In years to come, historians will speculate on why the Government embraced debt for the people.
Ireland’s debt is affordable and repayable according to Michael Noonan. At 215 billion and interest of 7.5 billion a year we’ll never dig our way out. But don’t let that little fact get int the way of the Government pretending all is well. We are bankrupt beyond redemption so what’s to lose from a debt conference.
We need Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis here is sort out our mess and not the German government.
Isn’t there a ,Collective Action Clause ,which allows a supermajority of debt holders (75%-80%,, to agree debt reduction, which the remaining 20%-25% are legally bound to go along with, is this so? I think it says so in the Stability Treaty. We were caught between a rock and a hard place, when we rattified the Stablity Treaty. we had to ratify the Treaty., because we may have needed another bailout, but we lost our sovereignty , as we were pushed futher into a straight jacket, unable to get out of.The Treaty was a inter- government one, not an EU treaty, though they hopeing to enable it to become a EU.treaty (around 2018 ).
The stability treaty is dubiously illegal perhaps because of withholding of evidence by the Department of Finance – The Trichet letter was withheld !
Remember Fianna Fail are still pretending to be the Republican Party – and they tried to sign away our Neutrality during Lisbon 1 and the current Fine Gael election documents clearly advertise an illegal desire to join the Common European Defence policy !
It is oddly enough no longer online – or at least harder to get , but there are of course paper copies – just like the E-Voting machines – a paper trail is very important !
Getting scared now guys since Greece’s vote!
Enda Kenny’s and his government’s interests, are, and never were, in the interests of the Irish people. I hate to bring this up, but Alan Kelly’s refusal to renew the derogation on domestic water charges, proves where the government’s interests lie. Enda Kenny would prefer to be the banksters of Europe’s performing poodle, than ever put the needs and interests of the Irish people first and foremost.
If Greece gets another debt write down it will be at the cost of everyone else in Europe – time the wealthy in Greece start paying their taxes more like…
But then we get one as well -
Following the Quantative Easing and the destruction of at least 10 % of the Irish wealth then an immediate 105 discount has to be attached to the Irish debt immediately – otherwise it’s pointless printing more money – It either goes to balancing the books in the member Sates that are being poorly managed and managed differently by the Troika in each country or the European project and its increasingly worthless currency fails and the E.U. breaks up under people power .
Our largest trading partners is in the E.U but it can still use a different currency – this is madness .
One expects the Queen to announce a cancelling of Irish debt held by her given the recent reduction she has benefitted from in the increase in the Euro versus the Sterling like …… that and the fact we didn’t dump all the London Nama property and collapse the London property market – Lord Chelsea would have had a heart attack if that happened – what – ho !
A debt write is not what is required or indeed what will emerge, the second part of the 1953 debt conference was the pushing out of the remainder of the german debt, repayment on the remaining 50% ( after write down ) were put off until german re-unification. this is the essential element, parking this debt , interest free ( as in this case ) and allowing inflation do the rest. The actual capital element of not only greece’s debt but also our’s and the majority of other euro states will never be repaid and it is the ever increasing interest payments that will cripple economies, parking that debt allows investment and the creation of sustained growth. The ecb with qe have now played their final card with no obvious effect, the market is already awash with money from the us and uk who adopted qe much earlier and reaped any benefit, indeed many would argue that the ecb policy coming at this late stage only serves to endanger the whole process as if it achieves nothing( as would seem to be the case ) it may actually spook the market and lead to a crash in over inflated share pricing ( estimated at 50% ). Unsustainable debt was the problem from day 1, something europe and germany in particular have tried to ignore, perhaps it took a new party with fresh thinking to bring it center stage, but greece’s actions far from endangering europe may actually save it.
Get real, people… You borrowed the money, you pay it back ! That is the way the world works. The real world doesn’t do free lunch.
I signed up to a mortgage for my home which I’m fortunate enough to be able to afford, however I didn’t sign up to pay the debts of gamblers.
Tell it to the banks
But Peter look at who is given the bill, not those who took out the loans and look at the interest?
If all the world’s debt were to be payed back in full, there would be no money left in circulation. National debt is not meant to be payed back in full. It’s there for bodies like the EU and IMF to effectively own countries without bloodshed. Economic warfare that Joe Soap doesn’t understand
The problem is peter we did not borrow the money, the banks did and in the real world those that invested in defunct private companies would loose their investment, here it was simply transferred to the taxpayer, the argument that not doing so would destroy the economy did not apply in cyprus where the bondholders were not german banks, leaves you wondering which economy was being protected.
Peter M Buchanan, your glib comment is trite, superficial and wrongheaded although it does reveal the strange mind set of the Irish public debt devote who just loses the harsh dose of austerity providing it is visited on others, not himself.
What a dully, complacent and self righteous comment by Mr. Buchanan. I wonder what it says about the character and personality of Mr. Buchanan.
The consequence of the maintenance of oppressive public debt is measured in austerity measures for the average people in society, cutback in social services, deflation, economic contraction, involuntary emigration, an even more diminished health service, educational cut backs, deprivation of life saving therapeutic drugs and human misery.
What an inhumane attitude is revealed by Mr. Buchanan. I feel only contempt for his attitude.
Ur right there john. There wouldnt be anuf hard cash to pay it back. every cent printed has its own dept attached. When will people realise this and wake up. Back with the punt
I should point out that Peter M Buchanan above is a Fianna Fail supporter. There is nothing inherently wrong in that but Peter Buchanan has been a strong defender of the Government Guarantee (the Irish citizen guarantee) of September 2008 which bankrupted the Irish State. This will place Mr. Buchanan’s views on debt in a more complete context.
Mr. Buchanan was strongly supportive of the killing of a teenage Palestinian supporter by Israeli Defence forces and crowed that the death was a reduction of one more terrorist. Inhumane is an understatement.
Peter we would all go along with that if it were true for everyone and add on if you gamble and lose you pay your own debts and not saddle generations and generations of people with paying for your fookin idiocy. Theres no problem paying our own way but paying for the failed 1%ers is what makes everyone sick seeing as we will never see the lifestyle these sc¥mbags lived in but our own lifestyle is diminished to cover them
Peter talks about the world not doing free lunches but it would be unpleasant to be in a restaurant, the 6 people at the table next to you have an expensive meal and wine ( say call them fat *ankers), then abscond without paying. The tough Manager, with a few heavies, then confronts you and says, you better pay for these guys or we will take you out back.
And we know who one of the heavies might be, don’t we?
Debt is a form of control and a way to print money as those who get the fresh printed money first are those who makes the most profits. Like wild animals who make a killing, they are the ones who are feed first and also get the good meat, the rest only gets the bones.
We really need to put the frighteners on the people we borrow money from.
Our borrowing interest rate is far too low.
How best to knock the markets confidence?
I know, maybe a debt conference?
The challenge with this is, it is common sense. The problem is sense is not that common.
Peter Buchanan its easy to see austerity has not been visited on you.
the problem is the politicians and other senior officials necessary to get a european wide debt conference are bought and paid for by the finance sector and other special interest groups and will not turn against their masters.
people are slowly getting wise to this IW seems to have awoken many to this……………….there is a revolt brewing.
Wonder what Seismic Shift Kenny will have to say
have your say