@Saul

You’re as ignorant as Michael, it is scientifically proven that the brains of trans people do look different. Recent Spanish imaging studies have shown that the white matter of untreated trans men look much like those of biological males, and that the patterns of trans women’s white matter fell about halfway between those of biological male and female control groups.

It’s not just the chromosomes that define who you are!

Larissa Nikolaus
So the groups who want respect and freedom of speech and even respect for what they believe in are not even tolerant of those who disagree with them?
Are you saying that people can’t express a view on what they believe now?
I wish someone would smell the roses sometimes, I am not saying no to what they want, just that the reality of the situation can not be real for them as the only way a man can be a woman and a woman a man can only be through their DNA. They might be a woman or a man but wanting to be something else is in their head, the way male and female brains work is down to their DNA and make up, surgery, hormone replacement etc will not change that because DNA IS DNA.
I AM NOT TELLING NO NOT TO DO IT but I find that these people wanting to change their birth certs is crazy because of the fact there did not become sexually aware until they were in their teens, that their DNA sated what sex they were and how can a piece of paper rewrite history as well as their DNA? To do this is not to face reality, it means that the state will share in their delusion because transgenderism is psychological and not physiological. Why can people not face the facts about what their body is. They can want to be the opposite sex and fill that role but changing their birth cert takes away not their life but the life their parents knew, their friends knew as well as what they knew. Who has a right to rewrite history. So how can I be ignorant when the facts are written in DNA, should the laws of biology be rewritten to satisfy peoples psychological desires?

Larissa Nikolaus
The matter of the brain changes to the levels of the hormones in the blood but the so called wiring of the brain for all males is at 90 degrees to that of females BECAUSE it is due to the genes. Because… women have extra DNA than men and that is why they develop as children quicker than boys, due to their hemispheres being better connected to each other than the male brain.
But different hormones and their levels do have an effect on the brain as they do have on muscle.

Also the developing brains of fetuses change in the womb according to what hormones they mothers body are exposed to during pregnancy as alcohol can cause a woman’s hormones to reverse saying nothing about the natural levels of different hormones and their levels that do be present in her body at the time of pregnancy especially.

Michael, are you a psychologist? Are you a psychiatrist? Do you have any medical degree at all?

Before a trans person can go through physical transition they have to go through continuous assessment with members of both of those professions before they can proceed to see an endocrinologist for hormonal treatment, and have to change their name and live in their true gender for two years prior to surgical assessment.

That is a HUGE amount of medical and psychological preparation which is supported by a similar amount of solid medical research and findings. Would such a solid pathway to transition be available and funded in numerous countries unless it was a definite requirement?

Trans issues are real. Trans people are real and no amount of denial and degradation by you of the transgender community will negate the reality of the issues involved.

Michael , very interesting read , thanks .

I can practice now as a life coach…
So your whole argument is based on what? Your belief means more than mine?
That your reality is based on desires and that trumps the physical reality according to who believes what? So how can trans issues be real where their need is from surgery and hormone use as the intervention of these is artificial and not by nature but by man, does that not prove that it is psychological really even with the use of psychologists as you stated in your post to me.
Trans issues are psychological unless you are in Iran where transgender operations are done forcefully on all gay men or men suspected of being gay…

Thanks Joanie, always have my head in NewScientist mag… lol.

Michael

And just because trans people are somewhere in the world even worse off than in Ireland, we shall not fight for our rights?

Do you know any trans people? Do you have any idea what this change of the birth certificate, which has absolutely no influence on you whatsoever, will make in the life of those suffering from gender dysphoria?

And what would you do, if you had children, who came out as trans to you? Would you deny them the recognition of who they are? Would you purposely continues to misgender them? You have no clue how privileged you are, yet want to pass judgement on trans issues and deny people their human rights

I am not passing judgement on anyone Larissa, I am just stating the facts and expressing my views, what is wrong with that?
I think that gender dysphoria is just like “Body integrity identity disorder (BIID, also referred to as amputee identity disorder)” “Symptoms of BIID sufferers are often keenly felt. Sufferers of BIID are uncomfortable with a part of their body, such as a limb, and feel confident that removing or disabling this part of their body will relieve their discomfort. Sufferers may have intense feelings of envy toward amputees. They may pretend that they are an amputee, both in public and in private. ”
So in your view should we start changing the law for Body integrity identity disorder as well?
Lets change their birth certs as well, lets rewrite the pass? Body integrity identity disorder and gender dysphoria are similar and are psychological in my book.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_integrity_identity_disorder

Actually Michael it is purely biological. After the sperm and Ovum fuse into a zygote it undergoes rapid division. Whether it has two x chromosomes or a single x & y one it doesn’t matter. As this division progresses it goes down the female route. This is the standard default for all organisms that have different sexes. Those nipples you have, well they are a result of that female development. At 7 weeks after fertilisation if you happen to have an XY then testosterone should kick in and your body will start to develop along the male route. But this does not always happen successfully. Some XY people will develop a vaginal pouch and their gonads will fail to descend. Others will develop male bodies but they will have feminised brains that find a complete disconnect with their body.

This could be caused by environmental teratogens trumping genetics or it could be due to receptor expression in the brain failing to develop correctly, insensitivity, recessive genes, mutant receptors, mother immune system attacking testosterone etc. When they are born society kicks in and tells them they happen to be a certain gender that is purely based on their physical genitalia. They are brought up thinking this is what they are until their bodies start to sexually mature. Here that disconnect between their brain and body really picks up with the gonads activating and producing the sex hormones again if you happen to be XY and have that feminised brain you will have confusion. The same applies for XX who have testosterone shaped brains.
So if you think this is all psychology you have a poor understanding of what psychology is. Psychology isn’t distinct from biology. It is biology. All those thoughts and feelings you have are the result of a biological system that is as much influenced by the environment (hormones, teratogens, infections) as it is by genetics.

If you want to look at and understand the psychology I would suggest reading up on the Batista family, a family with a recessive gene that prevents testosterone from working at 7 weeks after fertilisation so all the boys are born and raised as girls (this is a social construct). At puberty the insensitivity to testosterone turns off, testosterone starts to work and they go down the male route. The girls physically change from the female sex to the male sex. The vaginal pouch closes and their penis grows and gonads descend and develop as testicles. Behaviour also changes and this change is the result of the testosterone physically changing the brain from female to male and the “girls” become “boys”. This won’t work on XY who have female developed brains as this developmental insensitivity won’t suddenly change

So to label this as a purely XX and XY debate is flawed as it ignores the complexity of the issue. You mention what Iran does just shows how medically behind they are that they would inflict such barbarity on their own civilians. Look at the Bruce Reimer case study to see how savagely cruel and inhuman people with notions and confidence in their own beliefs can be.

LLoyd
A very long winded way of saying nature is not always perfect, you don’t kill a whole herd of cattle to promote the odd two headed cow.

Lloyd, if that was true then identical twins would have the same psychological processes and they don’t, some identical twins can be the total opposites and one of the identical twin can be gay and the other not…
I expect someone to say next that it might be gene crossover of the X and Y Chromosomes…
Men and women produce both sex hormones but the main one depends on what sex they are, when one isn’t working right then it is common sense then that the other hormone will take over in effects in the same way as hormone replacement therapy for trans genders?
So psychology is the major part of any sexuality and is linked to the biological but the biological can not excuse the psychological, both play a role but when all things are equal then the psychological is a good place to look as if it wasn’t then why are pre ops psychologically tested?
I have said earlier that hormones shape the brain and that men and women both produce both sets of sex hormones one higher than the other and even plastics can mimic some of these hormones and they can be found even in drinking water now. Yes even some women can have the Y chromosome but are infertile and even some women can have prostrates too and with aging cell division can cause cells to only have a X chromosome, so there are a lot of variations but the minority is no excuse for the majority of cases. Where the need to be the opposite sex is psychological, there is no biological reason or genetic reason to wear a skirt, wear make up, high heels or use perfume as purely biological doesn’t cover it, is there?

Lloyd, you do recognise that psychology does have the core role in sexuality as you stated so by saying children copy what they think others expect from them in their gender.
“So to label this as a purely XX and XY debate is flawed” as you state but I say it is this that creates the foundations to who people are and what people want to become, so it can’t be flawed as then there would be no sexes to copy, if it was flawed then people be asexual in nature?
It is about labels over biology and labels are psychological in nature.

Lloyd if transgenderism is biological then what is its function and purpose unless it is a biological mistake as you have put it? Biologically the female is the child rearer and the male is the protector and hunter unless it becomes a means to do with sexuality. Then what function does it become then, natures way to cull the numbers of the population or a way to boost the nature of the process of mating for survival as well as evolve and widen the ways of how a species can survive during adversity by creating diversity? As the biggest threat in any group is staying stagnant when being hunted, does transgenderism play a role here, puts a male in with a group of mothers who won’t mate with them and puts a female out with the hunters, so that the eggs are never alone in one basket? That could make biological sense but it does not explain copying the traits from the opposite sex as in manners, clothes, appearance, make up and lifestyle if it wasn’t psychological?

Still, 2+2=4 The law only works and should work on facts, I was born a man and a woman born a woman is a woman, scientifically speaking. Psychological speaking is another matter, but we can’t accommodate someone and rewrite the laws of biology just because that person feels different. A Paedophile is attracted to children and they can’t help that, it is a psychological need, they feel different on the inside. Should we accommodate paedophiles and let them have sex with children not to hurt their feelings? I know is an extreme example, but this shows you that society can’t please everyone, there has to be compromises. Where is my right to know if a woman I am marrying was born as a woman, I deserve to know, because I like many others will never marry or get intimate with a transexual, and if they change the laws then that person would not be required to tell you the truth, because in his/her head he is a woman, the law says it.

The truth is that it hurts for someone who was born as a man knowing deep inside that no matter how much surgery, counselling, treatment to make him look and feel like a woman, will never ever make him a real woman. Accept your reality,there are some things we just have to accept. I want to visit Neptune , I demand the government to send me there because I feel I belong in Neptune, not in earth.

Change your sex (cosmetically), grand, use the women’s or men’s toilet if you want, your choice. But you can’t expect the government and science to change history and give you a new ID and a new birth certificate, is insane. Then change my birth cert and put that I was born in Neptune, please, I demand it!

@Saul

I think you have a misconception there.

You are implying that trans women or men don’t tell their partners that they are trans when wanting to get married. I think by that stage the partner already knows.

Are you married? If so, did you ask to see the birth certificate of your wife before getting married?

The birth certificate as a form of ID is usually only used when applying for a passport or otherwise interacting with the government, so a trans woman will at the moment still have M put in her passport, which is just plain wrong and can lead to a lot of trouble, even being denied to travel because the gender expression doesn’t fit the gender marker. Is this fair?

Also the old birth certificate is not destroyed and no history is erased, it will just get sealed and locked away, only to ‘ve viewed by court order, if I’m not mistaken.

And to compare trans people with paedophiles is just the lowest of the low.

Then when you travel and have to use your passport dress like what you are scientifically and factual, a man if you don’t want any trouble. What makes you so special? I love knives, I can’t function without carrying knives with me at all times, I am sad, nervous and feel treated unfairly when they take away mi knives. I never hurt anyone, I just need to conceal knives.

Why on earth, should you be allowed to change your sex legally so you can travel comfortably with no hassle while I get to travel to the airport without my knives. I demand the government makes an exception for me and allows me to travel with my knives, I have no criminal record, so I deserve special treatment.

@Saul

You know quite well what you’re saying is a logical fallacy, as you can leave your knives in the check in luggage if you want.

And I can ask you the same question, why should I be forced to hide my identy when traveling?

No, I need to use my knives at all times, I need them in my pockets, I need to feel them in my clothes, I can’t compromise to check them in the luggage, I get anxious and I feel discriminated if I have to do that. How do you solve that, you travelling without being forced to hide your identity and me being able to be inside an airplane with my knives which I need to be at all times?

I’m just using Saul’s logic which makes sense.

@Juan

Saul’s logic does not make sense, as I can’t change who I am, and in any case how would having the gender marker F instead of M in any way effect you?

Can you, please, reasonable and logical without resorting to idiotic comparisons to your inability to function without knives, explain to me, how the change of my birth certificate has an impact on your life? And why should two people, who went to the hardships of one partner transitioning and came out with their marriage intact, be forced to divorced, just to have the human rights of the transitioned partner recognized? And correct me if I’m wrong, but the right to carry knives wherever you go is not a human right, but the right not to be discriminated against because of race, sexuality, gender or gender expression is a human right.

I have to say I agree with the other comments , you cannot just erase the fact that that you were born a different sex .

Joanie

No-one will erase anything, the old birth certificate will not be destroyed.

But in any case let me ask you again, what effect will this have on you?

Larrisa it doesn’t have an effect on me . it’s just my view on the subject and if you got married as a male and then changed your sex to a female , then surely you would have to get divorced in order to be recognised as a female , so you could remarry as a female ? No?

Joanie

Try to think about it this way, will a contract, e.g. insurance and such, all in a sudden be null and void because I transitioned to female? Will I need to do my academic degrees again? No.

And in my opinion it’s the same with marriage, the contract is still valid as essentially they’re still the same to people who signed it.

I respect your opinion, just disagree with it.

Larrisa but see they are not because they have changed sex ? If a married man changes sex to a female and wants the birth cert changed to a female then how is it possible to stay married ? , he married as a man . I also respect your views too .

Then joanie, I hope that you respect my right to continue in my marriage to my spouse despite her transition to her true gender. We married in good faith when the Internet wasn’t even born never mind in it’s infancy. There was no information for my wife, not an idea that there was such a situation as transgender. Still, we fell in love and married and had a child – and if you believe that our marriage was easy or unaffected by the revelations my spouse and I faced and overcame, then you are very much mistaken.

It took a long time for me to open my eyes and heart to see that my wife is still the person that I fell in love with over 30 years ago. I am appalled that our love and commitment to each other and to our vows in the face of such essential change and adversity is dismissed with such disdain not only in these comments but by the government of our country.

Helen , I do respect your marriage . it’s just the thing that you both married as man and wife and now that has changed . so why not re marry as a same sex couple ? That is of course when they change the law , which by the way I do agree with .

Joanie

I can, to a certain degree, see where you are coming from, but why would you force Helen and her wife to go through the long and excruciatingly painful process of divorce, they would need to live separate lives for four years at least, prove that there’s irreparable differences in their marriage and so on.

But that’s not the case, the two of them are still very much in love, so why force this upon them, and that’s what the state is doing here.

Larissa , well then why not fight for that to be changed ? A quick divorce , no 4 year wait ? But when you marry a man who has now changed sex to female then you can expect the status to remain the same because he’s not a man anymore . fair play to Helen though

She is a perfect example of love conquers all !

Larissa Nikolaus
“The birth certificate as a form of ID is usually only used when applying for a passport or otherwise interacting with the government, so a trans woman will at the moment still have M put in her passport, which is just plain wrong”.
How can it be wrong if it is the truth, why erase the truth for a lie, a birth cert says they were born a certain sex AND THEY WERE. To change it would be to lie about it?

Larissa Nikolaus “how would having the gender marker F instead of M in any way effect you?”
It means lying on an official document for one, how can a baby know what they want and at the time of birth they are either male or female, so how is that wrong to state that as a birth cert is a birt certificate to explain the facts of the baby born and nothing to do with an adult because it has everything about stating the facts of the newly born child. So should we now change the colour of our hair and eyes on other official documents as well?

The cost for one and we didn’t fall out of love because I transition (MTF). Why should we HAVE to get remarried after 50 years and still in Love? Thank goodness we live in Canada!

or XXY, or single X… you’re not an expert in biology here. There are women that are born with XY and are not trans, they have CAIS. But of course they count as women since it’s not quite as icky as being trans?

I haven’t seen any births that are ambiguously human/feline on the other hand… to be honest all of this shit is just a display of power, trans people are horribly subjugated, regularly murdered or driven to suicide. People like you look at that and say “yes – these morally unforgiveable acts, I must side with those committing them to remind myself I am powerful in this world.”

You’re ignorant and disgusting.

Michael I agree I don’t think the birth cert should be changed .

This doesn’t affect your Joanie. Your opinion is completely irrelevant.

me being able to carry my knives in an airplane doesn’t affect you, so why can’t I be accommodated and why should you be accommodated? There a tons of people with several problems with the system, they don;t feel themselves because although they would never even kill a fly they have to play ball, I say again, what makes you so special and different from all these other people with different needs and being restrained by laws?

Leighanne , can you not have a discussion without the insults ? Once you start that , you have lost the debate.

Leighanna Rose Walsh
I think you should read my comment again as the single X Chromosome refers to cells that are old and has nothing to do with the subject at hand, it was an expression of how cells can have mutations in them and has been taken out of context. Also what has Complete androgen insensitivity syndrome (CAIS) got to do with it, are you saying that everyone who wants to be a trans sexual has it or just digging for excuses to prove a point?
I am not telling people what to think or what to believe, I am expressing my belief, if you disagree with that then that is your right but expressing insults does not add weight to an argument but takes away from it. I am also using facts to back up what I believe and my knowledge of biology isn’t too bad I think. So is everyone who doesn’t believe as you do “ignorant and disgusting”, not very respectful or nice? I wait you reply with anticipation.

Nobody “wants” to be trans! Your comment is full of ignorance and fallacies.

Do you think I woke up one morning and decided “Oh, from today I’ll be trans” because being trans has oh so many advantages, up and including being ‘diagnosed’ by ignorant nincompoops like you!

joanie no i haven’t lost the debate. that’s a logical fallacy known as the style over substance fallacy, or more widely as tone policing.

you’re talking about something that affects MY rights, not yours in slightest. i have a right t be angry.

Leighanna , it’s a public forum where people can give their opinions and views , so when you start giving insults you will never get your point across because nobody wants to know anyway , that is how you will lose the debate . but you carry on there !

What I find is the main cause of what people believe is from their own desires and emotions followed by the environment that they were raised in. Also facts and logic mean nothing to people who rule their beliefs by their desires and when they can’t answer a question or a remark they then attack the person verbally.
The fact people themselves can’t be wrong means that they believe others to be wrong then but people have to realise they can’t always get everything they want as life is a give and take process. Minorities can not dictate policies for majority, there is a democratic process and at its core is respect for the process and for what others believe.
No one here has described why they want to be transgender or used an argument to prove their point, so I have not been enlightened about anything yet but have been insulted and that is suppose to change my view??? It is crazy…

Larissa
In most countries these days you need not only your birth cert, you also need the results of an AIDS test. I don’t see why you think Ireland should be so different.

Well to be honest Gordon, there’s nothing wrong with adding an X to gender options. As for changing tables, they ought to be in both female and male bathrooms already! There are a lot of fathers out there who need to be able to change a baby to. It’s pretty sexist to assume that only mothers will.

And as for adding another gendered bathroom – that’s a little much I think. At best, make a unisex bathroom. There’s nothing wrong with one, really, and I see no problem with it. It’s pretty practical in honesty. Just lose the urinals, and have only stalls with doors. still fully private, but no gender separation.

Sorry but I wouldn’t feel comfortable going into a unisex bathroom

@Amy – I didn’t say changing tables. Although I on that note I do agree with you that it is sexist that not all male bathroom are required to provide a changing table.

I was actually referring to changing rooms in gyms or clothes shops. These people with “X” gender or “zee’s” as they now refer to themselves don’t feel comfortable sharing dressing or bathroom spaces with males or females.

I feel that because they are such a tiny minority that they really should just make do with whatever dressing room or bathroom they are presenting as that day.

Gordon Gekko

Show me where Western Society has broken down because equal rights were granted to women?

And how dare us trans* people fight for the right to ‘ve recognized as who we are, it so much better to be constantly questioned and ridiculed because of our gender.

Irish women did own their own property many moons ago and were free in every way.

Then along came the Roman church to civilise us and get us women into our place in society.

We are still chattels and vessels in Law Claire and that is what we must learn about.

Before the RC cult and its institution of marriage we had our own ceremonies with the doughnut stone and only 2 people in the contract. Now we have 3 parties and the church/state never defaults of course and gets to divide the chattels in court.

The marriage license is mere license to have “legal” sex.

I don’t think I’ve questioned or ridiculed anyone here. Please point it out where I have done such? I don’t care really about people changing genders but be happy that I let you have that privilege.

Secondly, the women’s rights movement has lead to a weakening in western society. The strong must now make allowances for the weak. Prime example is gender quotas in political parties or industry. You might have 10 men who are the best people at the job but you have to let one trans person, two women and one gay person on the project for “balance” and essentially you are replacing the best people with weaker candidates. Thus creating a weaker team.

I’m sick of paying money to look after people who won’t look after themselves.

Denise, Lydia Foy started legal proceedings 22 years ago, and the European Court ruled in her favour 7 years ago. Are trans people supposed sit in a corner and wait patiently for the government to finally legislate on this matter with a completely useless bill?

The trans community were asked to submit their suggestions on how the legislation should be framed – those suggestions were completely ignored. Experts from around the world consulted with the government on the most progressive and humane research available – and the government chose to copy and paste the 10 year old legislation from the UK instead (which is already being dismantled as being out of date and ineffective). The Irish government has had the opportunity to lead the world on this matter but instead chose to be both ignorant and lazy. We have been lobbying for useful legislation for 7 years and supportive politicians have proposed viable amendments to the bill but the Tanáiste Joan Burton and her ministers have been negative in the extreme.

I am married to a transwoman, we have a daughter and this year we will celebrate our 29th anniversary. My spouse is excluded from benefiting from the legislation because we do not want to divorce as the present form of the proposed legislation demands. So, under Article 41 of the Irish constitution our marriage is under attack and our family is in danger of being torn apart.

Trans people and their supporters are being too demanding? Yes, damn right we are!

Helen

Thank you for your support and congratulations to your 29th anniversary, I wish you and your wife all the happiness in the world, and hopefully, all together we can change this shameful bill into something meaningful.

Gordon, you betray your prejudices so well when you write “You might have 10 men who are the best people at the job but you have to let one trans person, two women and one gay person on the project for “balance” and essentially you are replacing the best people with weaker candidates”.

You assume that that those ten men will be the best people for the job. That’s sexism, and it’s not reflected in the reality on the ground.

Have you looked at the leadership in (for example) Irish politics and Irish banks? Overwhelmingly male, and overwhelmingly pisspoor. In reality what we have is quotas for men, filling Dail Eireann and boardrooms with overpromoted underachievers.

Norway introduced boardroom quotas in 2003, requiring 40% of company board members to be women. The result was not just more women on boards, but an improvement in board quality which was welcomed by many businesspeople: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/30/us-nordic-investment-fund-idUSBRE98T0LM20130930

So what you are saying Claire is that because a board might be in the majority male it will have poor performance because of the board members genders rather than their experience, skills or education?

Over all men perform better at all tasks. Women are constantly needing to be propped up with legislation. There are many examples of women who made it to the top in male dominated fields and industries without crying about it. I would rather take those high calibre women than poorer candidates simply because their reproductive organs are inside rather than outside.

Lastly, I have said that the 10 men ,in my example, were the best candidates for the job but because of quotas 4 of them will be removed for the sake of “balance” and the team will be poorer for it.

I can point to many more male dominated boards that perform at a very high level above and beyond anything in Norway. Scandinavian countries are extremely feminist nowadays anyway so it isn’t a surprise to me. Ireland is a poor example as a country for anything,

I will always believe in the best person for the job be they male or female.

@ Gordon and Claire – i would put it this way – having a quota of any kind increases the risk of having people or a team of people who are less than “optimal” for the job.

For example in a Scandinavian country 40% of board members must be women. Including the oil and gas industry where maybe 10% of people with sufficient experience are women. This would imply necessarily that the board will have less experience in the industry that it otherwise could have and this is not in share holder best interest. I see this as a form of communism and harmful for society. To be objective you could also pick a female dominated industry and imagine a similar scenario that demands 40% men. Same story.

Next we will have quotas that we must have x% of this and y% of that and z% of this and so on. Business will suffer more and more.

Gordon writes: “Over all men perform better at all tasks”.

I don’t know whether you stupid, trolling, or just a misogynist. But that sort of chauvinist nonsense is demonstrably false.

Evidence of the weak female mind at work ^^^^

Can’t come up with a proper rebuttal so you accuse me of trolling etc.

Sorry about that. I have respect for women that don’t require a legislative leg up to get anywhere in life. They at least work hard and sacrifice to get where they are.

Vincent O’Mahony writes ” having a quota of any kind increases the risk of having people or a team of people who are less than optimal for the job”.

In theory, you are right. If we were dealing with appointment and selection systems which chose people entirely on merit, then any quota would impede that meritocracy.

The reality is that those making appointments choose people like themselves. So the imbalance is self-replicating.

Non-discrimination law is supposed to prevent that, but in practice it has been extraordinarily slow at achieving equality of opportunity. Non-discrimination law makes it very difficult for any individual to challenge anything but the most outrageously blatant instances of discrimination.

Quotas are a great short-term tool to cut through the crap, and change the landscape. Yes, they are crude — but sometimes, big crude steps are needed.

the problem with this reasoning is that some people are artificially favoured for a job already. when people say “well the best person for the job isn’t going to get it now” you’re saying that women, people of colour etc. are somehow the worse person for the job and the status quo of affording them less positions of power is somehow justified.

@ Claire ” those people making appointments choose people like themselves”

People who are elected by share holders to represent their interest should in my opinion be allowed to appoint whoever they want. If only10% of people with the right skillset or knowledge in an industry are female (or male) then why should you have to have a quota of 40% female (or male)?

I dont think anyone should be denied opportunity based on something that they are born with but this is not a means to achieve that, quotas are just a form of communism.

@johnny boy:
You’re grrrrreeeeeeaaaaaaat!

I agree Berta we need more women in power.

A way for some to get a man

Norman, berta is a teenaged boy most likely, or at best, one of the regular sad old misogynists who hang around here.

yes wombmen are whole and complete unlike the men.

Fe+males are the whole/holy ones with both fe and male energies.

Good way of getting your message across without having your comments deleted Berta.
I’m off to join a minority that’s being discriminated against.
If they won’t have me, then I’ll make up my own one.

Hey Bertha, are you free for valentines? Xxx

No shes not ,she’s being refloated and sent out to sea with her pod mates .

Wtf is a teenaged boy , is it an old teenage boy .
No wonder the journal bars you so often .

wow Helen that must have taken some strength , love holds no barriers, fair play to the both of you .

And it looks like Ciaran scuttled away with his tail between his legs on that one. Wrll done Helen, thanks for speaking out.

Cíaran love is for souls, not bodies.

A lot more people are innately bisexual than we like to believe.

Ps – my wife saw two psychologists and two psychiatrists prior to admission. She was found to be articulate, self – aware, mentally competent and totally sane. I know because I have read the psychiatrist’s report!

there are standards of psychiatric care in place for transgender individuals and generally they will lead to hormone treatments and very often surgery.

you are not a psychiatrist, and even if you were the field of psychiatry has a problematic history of labelling normal humour behaviour as as a disorder(see: Homosexuality). You’ve no grounds to say this, no experience, no expertise, nothing. You’re an ignorant, sheltered cis white man commenting on the issues of a highly marginalised group.

You have a blind spot or you haven’t read my comments earlier, people can do anything they want as it does no harm but putting on a skirt does not change the fact that your sex is defined by your DNA… WHY DO PEOPLE IGNORE THESE FACTS, they rather pretend than face the reality and “educate” themselves, that it is all pretend and a fantasy. That is a logical enough explanation and rewriting history for a birth cert is fantasy and with fantasy and pretending some people loose touch with reality and get lost in it?
It is facts that matter and reality that matter and people being self deluded is not right or proper or even healthy for them. My argument here is why change the birth certs as that is crazy… The logical explanation here is that they were born that sex and are still that sex because it is the DNA AND PSYCHOLOGY that makes them male or female and it is psychology that seems to play a part in this as they ignore reality.

Are you a doctor specialising in transgender issues? What the f*ck do you know about my DNA.

I may have been born with male sex characteristics, but that does not mean that my GENDER is male.

Are you aware of the differences between gender and sex?

And let me repeat my question, who the f*ck do you think you are to be judging and denying other people their human rights?

Bring transgender is no mental illness but is actually routed in the genetics according to newest research, and what about intersex people? Or do you deny that these exist?

You should maybe step back and think about what you have against trans and intersex people, because I’ll call a spade a spade and the comments on here, and that include yours are all very transphobic to one degree or another.

Are you a doctor or a psychologist or psychiatrist who is familiar with trans and intersex people? Do you know any trans or intersex people? Answer these questions!

Larissa
Phobias are a survival instinct, fear of spiders, snakes and any dangerous thing, it is something deeply rooted in the psyche, possibly in our DNA.

Why should people ignore their instincts ? Nature did not put them there for nothing.

Just for you ignorant transphobes, here is the definition of transphobia:

Transphobia (or less commonly transprejudice) is a range of antagonistic attitudes and feelings against transsexuality and transsexual or transgender people, based on the expression of their internal gender identity (see Phobia – Terms for prejudice). Researchers describe transphobia as emotional disgust, fear, anger or discomfort felt or expressed towards people who do not conform to society’s gender expectations, and say that although it is an aspect of homophobia, and is similar to racism and sexism, those attitudes are becoming generally unacceptable in modern society, whereas significantly more individuals still maintain transphobic views without fear of censure.

The related term cissexism (which is sometimes used synonymously with transphobia or cisgenderism) refers to the assumption that, due to human sexual differentiation, one’s gender is determined solely by a biological sex of male or female (based on the assumption that all people must have either an XX or XY sex-chromosome pair, or, in the case of cisgenderism, a bivalent male or female expression), and that trans people are inferior to cisgender people due to being in “defiance of nature”.

Whether intentional or not, transphobia and cissexism have severe consequences for the target of the negative attitude. As homophobia and transphobia are correlated, many trans people experience homophobia and heterosexism; this is due to people who associate trans people’s gender identity with homosexuality, or because trans people also have a sexual orientation that is non-heterosexual. Attacking someone on the basis of a perception of their gender identity rather than a perception of their sexual orientation is known as “trans bashing”, as opposed to “gay bashing”.

And now tell me if that is natural?

If you bothered to read my previous comments then you would not be saying those things?
DNA is simple, what DNA we have makes us biologically the way we are physically, simple as that.
I said before I am just expressing my beliefs about the subject and as I said before I am not telling anyone what to believe, your intolerance at my beliefs on the matter only proves that you seem intolerant of anyone who’s views are not the same as yours. Tell me how wearing a frock is written in the DNA of a person, it is not and neither is wearing make up, high heel shoes or handbags as DNA is older than them and I do not believe nature has put that into DNA yet as all those are copied and incorporated into the psyche from exposure to others and to copy others is psychological and not part of DNA.
WHAT IS TRANSPHOBIC, these days you can’t express a view with out being labelled something in other to put down what a person says, in any debate you challenge a debate, you do not attack the person if you can’t debate it or do not like what they say. How many times have I answered those questions, if you want to know then read my previous comments instead of keep on asking the same questions or are you not reading them at all.

Gerard Devany, Many phobias come from childhood but some are in our DNA for survival, I would say 99% of transgender issues comes from childhood in my view.

@Michael

I ask again, are you a doctor?

@Gerard

So something like this is totally natural and a result of survival instinct? You are nothing but a sad troll, afraid of change and hiding behind your egg and your conspiracy theories!

http://www.pghlesbian.com/2015/02/22-year-old-ohio-trans-woman-stabbed-to-death-by-father/

Larissa Nikolaus,
Are you saying that people have to be doctors now to join in on a debate to know what they are talking about, that is a bad attempt at point scoring I think.
Many people know subjects better than some professionals and having a degree and going to the right college does not make a person an expert, as the saying goes… It was professionals who built the Titanic and amateurs who built the ark.
I have interests in all the sciences including biology and medicine, if people needed degrees to have a debate then it would be a very poor debate at that as many amateurs know more about chosen subjects that many professions as many amateurs have the passion of the subject while some professionals do it to have a well paying job. I have many deep interests as well to do with biology because knowledge is enjoyable to know.