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WHAT IMPACT HAVE the four Fine Gael and Labour budgets had on economic inequality? Has the gap between rich and poor narrowed as a result of having a party in power for whom tackling inequality is part of their raison d’etre?
Contrary to the misleading claims of Labour TD Joanna Tuffy in this week’s Irish Times, economic inequality in increasing. And it is increasing because of the policies she and her party colleagues vote for.
The standard measure of income inequality is the Gini Coefficient, which looks at the distribution of income across society.
Figures from Eurostat show that income inequality slowly declined from 2002 through to 2009. For much of this period wage and social welfare increases were the primary reason. However from 2008 the impact of the recession on very high incomes accelerated the trend.
However, since 2009 income inequality as measured by the Gini Coefficient is on the rise again.
The gap between the rich and the poor is widening
Unemployment, regressive changes to the tax system and social welfare cuts combined with the slow recovery of incomes at the top mean that the gap between the rich and the poor is widening.
Deputy Tuffy references an ESRI research paper by Professor John FitzGerald to suggest that decisions made by her government have resulted in a fairer distribution of disposable income. She claims that Labours protection of the social welfare budget was a ‘unique response’ when compared to other Eurozone crisis countries.
Her reading of the ESRI paper is inaccurate and her claim about the social welfare budget is untrue.
What Professor FitzGerald actually says is that income inequality in the period before the crash was higher than it is now. Crucially his paper also shows that since 2009 income inequality has been rising.
Why is income inequality rising?
There are a number of reasons for this increase – including the impact of Government budgets.
Each year after the budget is passed the ESRI conducts a distributional analysis of the impact of the budget on household income.
The overall impact of budgets since the start of the recession has resulted in higher income households losing a larger share of their income.
However every single one of the Fine Gael and Labour’s budgets has been to hit lower income families hardest.
According to the ESRI Budget 2012 took three and a half times more from the bottom 40% of households than it did from the top 30%. A similar, if less pronounced pattern was found by the ESRI in Budget 2013 and Budget 2014.
Budget 2015 resulted in income losses for the bottom 60% of households and income gains for the top 40%. Worse still the top 10% of earners were the only ones to gain significantly, while the bottom 30% of households lose the most.
When the Gini Coefficient figures are released for 2014 and 2015 there is no doubt that the cumulative impact of Fine Gael and Labours deeply unfair budgets will result in an even greater increase in income inequality.
This is not simply about disposable income
Unfortunately this is only part of the story. Economy inequality is about much more than disposable income. As the recently published TASC report Cherishing All Equally, Economic Inequality in Ireland demonstrates lower income households are more dependent on public services.
Fine Gael and Labour have continued to cut funding for vital frontline services including employment, youth and drugs projects that deprived communities depend on. They have also increased the cost of other services which again hit low income families hardest.
The TASC report also highlights the importance of income adequacy for tackling economic inequality, particularly in a society with weak universal public service provision and expensive private provision.
Deputy Tuffy is right to highlight the role of job creation in tackling inequality. However this only applies if the jobs pay decent wages and provide employees with enough hours to earn a living wage.
Unfortunately too many of the jobs created under the current government are low paid and insecure.
A growing pool of badly-paid, precarious jobs
Research by Rory O’Farrell of the Nevin Institute of Economic Research suggests a hollowing out of middle income jobs and a dangerous trend towards a small number of well-paid secure jobs and a growing pool of badly-paid, precarious jobs.
This polarising trend if left unchecked will simply deepen inequality in our society.
It is clear from her article that Deputy Tuffy is deeply uncomfortable with the debate on economic inequality provoked by the recent TASC report. And so she should be .Ever year on budget day she and her Labour Party colleagues troop into the Dáil and vote for measures that are making our society less and less fair.
And if this was not bad enough she has the gall to defend the indefensible with an article that is factually misleading in the extreme. Now that’s what I call politically repugnant.
Eoin Ó Broin is a Sinn Féin councillor on South Dublin County Council.
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Tell us something we don’t know.
Every government we have had
Excellent article. Sinn Féin in government will ensure there is no gap between rich and poor.
Those who pay tax in Ireland are paying for what came out of David Drumm’s depository -
No Irishman will pay tax here again as long as that situation is allowed to continue under Edna’s twisted leadership !
Real shinner, how the hell will SF ensure that, I am a big SF fan so to speak but even if am not that delusional
I really don’t think you can blame the government for the global recession. If its joblessness, then yes, the gap “appears” to be widening….you need to get real data of what the lowest earners earn vs what the higher income earners earn. No point skewing the stats by ignoring those “rich folk” that are now bankrupt too as a result of the global recession. So in essence you need to ignore all unemployed, then get real stats based on tax paying (USC included) folk.
What you will get is not a linear tax line, but rather a curve that tends towards infinity and then rather drops off when we get to the 600k a year mark. Large corporations and well- to-do businessmen may benefit from tax breaks and tax hiding, but those with regular jobs of any description certainly do not.
Real Endabot, SF in govt will ensure there is a fairer Irish society for everyone. In fact I’ve just realised that’s the opposite to what we’ve had over the past 4 years. FG, never again.
PR war update
its official fg buddies are pointing at labour, new depths and not yet a week in to the campaign
Ahhh Mick.
You are right we will all be poor together except for Gerry who can fly first class to the USA for his private medical care
Comrade Hannigan, it is not delusional to know Sinn Féin will deliver the 32 county socialist republic we have long dreamed of.
Yes everyone will be poor.
The fg/lab troll….shinnerbot….is trying to use his dubious grasp at humour to deflect criticism away from his two parties who are the current stewards of an unequal divided state, he only appears when it’s a story detailing another failure of the clown coalition.
Quite pathetic.
Comrade McLoughlin, the Clown Coalition is no laughing matter.
Everything will be free under SF! Welfare will be doubled! No property tax! No water charges! Yippee can’t wait!
Please check their Hero’s in Greece for the latest backtrack on their pre election promises!
Nothing like a good populist propaganda article!
Real shinner that not what you said, nobody can ensure their will be no gap between rich & poor, maybe you mean the poverty level will change and everyone will be entitled to basic living rights and have a roof over there heads
Gavin good post but it will not be understood by most on this site as they come from a certain political ideology. You can Marx my word on that !
Protect Democracy! & Real Endabot …. you vacuous, deflecting FG apologias.
This will be a nice link to post after each one of your inane postings
http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/income-inequality-ireland-1959563-Feb2015/
Ivan your just a delusional free loading lefty!
End multiple pensions for politicians now!!
Or I could be a college educated, working, mortgaged, father…. but work away with your assumptions.
You can tell Edna both my and my wife both voted for his ‘End to cronyism’ and ‘democratic revolution’. What did we get – the COMPLETE opposite!
Needles to say FG may forget about our two votes the in the coming months :-)
I’m an Sf supporter also but a 32 county is a bit of a stretch there. I believe they will bring a fairer irish society through socialism, which is what we need but we are a long long way off from a 32 county Republic if that’ll ever even happen.
What do you expect? You want the place to look like America, then you’ll get the problems of debt slavery and the increased diversity crime enrichment delights of multiculturalism
An bfuil fhios agat faoin TTIP? I bhfad níos a bhéas sé má ghlacfaimid leis sin. Ach us beag caint atá ann faoi – díreach mar is dúil do lucht an airgid.
What in gods name would Sinn Fein know about budgeting a country?
“labour’s protection of the social welfare budget” so how come my JSA has gone down by over €70 in the last 3 years?
My food budget per week is now less than €5, I have no heating (no oil) and zero money to spend on anything that needs replacing and I have just got a €295 electricity bill, and I use minimal electricity.
Apparently I am too old to get a job… No matter what jobs I apply for, I keep coming second to younger applicants. Experience counts for nothing.
Correct. It’s a hell of an achievement by this government to make FFs post crash budgets look fair and progressive by comparison, but FG/Labour have managed it. Regressive, unfair measures aimed at the most vulnerable and least likely to vote, the filth politic of cynicism and cutehoors.
Were you told by Sinn Fein to wait 10 minutes after your comrade published his braingasms with some supportive bilge?
No but it seems somebody told johngahan to saturate the comments section with conspiracy nut theories
“Were Jammin” jumping in within minutes as usual with Sinn Fein propaganda.
You sure you don’t work for Sinn Fein?
Why do you respond immediately to every Sinn Fein article?
Only Fine Gael could make a Fianna Fáil comeback possible after one term in government. Come back Bertie, all is forgiven!!
Diarmuid, ‘were jamming’ hides behind a mask, he is a coward with no courage to his convictions. He peddles SF rubbish all the time. The article fails to mention the recent tax cuts, the abolition of many, and more to come, from the USC tax net. It fails to mention the increase in child benefit and the resumption of the Xmas bonus. It suits a certain agenda.
I notice neither of the YFG troll accounts responded to my actual post, just the usual ‘noun-verb-sinn fein’ crap.
Diarmuid, I’ve explained to you several times that I don’t work for SF, and have given examples to prove this is the case. At this stage I think its reasonable to ask, are you calling me a liar?
@ Jason: ” The article fails to mention the recent tax cuts….”
The tax cuts favoured higher earners the most, which backs up the main point of the article.
The higher earners who have shouldered the lions-share of extra taxes without much of a whimper.
Damn those taxpayers. They need to pay more.
“Were Jammin”… certainly not a FG member, you however are clearly a shinner troll.
Hard to call an anonymous troll a liar as impossible to prove either way… will settle for disingenuous, manipulative shinner cheerleader…
Your turn… Why do you respond to every Sinn Fein article with pro-Sinn Fein comments within minutes?
What are your connections to Sinn Fein?
“The higher earners who have shouldered the lions-share of extra taxes without much of a whimper.”
I’d imagine they’ve less to whimper about than the child that goes to bed hungry, or the mother about to lose the roof over her head. Personally, I’m down pretty much all of my disposable income since 2008, but I’ll save my empathy for the people living in their cars rather than the ‘higher earners’.
What about those working class families with mortgages, bills, child care? Barely able to put food on the table after FG and Labour and their damned austerity policies have picked their pockets clean. It’s these people who’ve borne the brunt, not the upper classes.
@ dermot: “What are your connections to Sinn Fein?”
I have none, other than I may give them my first preference vote in the next election depending on who PBP run in my area. If you’re going to consider that a shinner troll, then you better be worried as theres a few hundred thousand of them going to the polling boot come next election.
Says the albino gorilla .
“Were Jammin”… may?.. Lols.
Oh, so you ARE calling me a liar, you just don’t have the grapes to say it.
Just a disingenuous, manipulative shinner troll…
Any chance you could answer my other questions?
What other question?
Why do you respond to every Sinn Fein article, within minutes, with pro Sinn Fein comments?
Like when I responded to their abstention on the clare daly bill by asking individual SF TDs to support it against the wishes of their party?
Like when I responded to Cathal King losing the by election by saying I was delighted for Paul Murphy?
Like I responded to them admitting that FF guy as a member by saying they shouldn’t have?
Like when I responded to them announcing Martin McGuinness as their Presidential candidate by supporting David Norris?
Like when I responded to their policy announcement in relation to the water charges by slating it?
Anything else snowflake?
The lady doth protest too much…
You repeatedly and immediately spout pro-SF positions on the vast majority of politics articles.
You routinely explain away the PIRA, dismiss their connections to SF, hammer the government on everything and just happen to agree with SF positions on practically everything.
Your pre-prepared shopping list of “differences” with SF is a disingenuous attempt to mask your rabid SF cheerleading.
Being happy for Paul Murphy, dismissing a FF ship jumper and supporting the one presidential candidate who had a realistic chance of beating the Labour guy hardly qualifies you as a someone without a SF agenda.
So you ask me to respond to your questions, and when I do I’m ‘protesting too much’?
How exactly does that work ‘diarmuid’?
Scratch my first line above so…
Will people start realising now that they are are dirty rotten show of c***s
If you’re rich you might be able to help the government in some way,
So they’ll keep giving you more to keep you sweet…
But if you’re poor ,
You’re of no use to the government,
So they’ll keep taking more off you so you’ll know your place…..
FG made a cool million quid last year from their ‘raffles’. The haves and have mores will make sure the party of wealths coffers are well stuffed for the next GE.
How much did Sinn Fein collect from dodgy US corporates into its multiple NY bank accounts?
What dream have you sold the yanks?
I don’t know john, do you have the figure yourself, you seem to be an authority on the subject?
Obsessed much with my new favourite party ? #jesuissinnfeinnow
FG have a poor record with raising funds from fuel smuggling.
Whataboutery.
Can’t defend something go fg default,
what about…..?
Dermot thats fg trade mark, theyll never give that up
Jeez I though Tom Red was smarter than that. Always quick to crack a joke, but a solid cliche amounting to absolute bollocks coming out here, with very few details…this country is becoming dangerous. Those that have emigrated are the actual lucky ones! Don’t be crying for them.
Yeah…. how fortuitous these unwitting exiles in alluding the drudgery of JoanBridge/SlaveWay or minimally liveable wages as a result of the raft of wide ranging blanket bailout levies, all part of the overall race to the arse-end of bottom loaded austerity!
The rich become richer and the poor become poorer. Thank you Labour Party sell outs for helping to continue this trend.
Comrade, I love your “sniper at work” profile pic #PIRAbanter
Aww shucks RS, I like it myself. Reminds me of the good aul days with the crosshairs trained on a far away target. Woulda given that Chris Kyle fella a run for his money! Lolz ;-)
RealEndabot,
Some research for you to ponder
http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/income-inequality-ireland-1959563-Feb2015/
Thank you for providing a link to this article Comrade Murphy, I love circular arguments.
History repeating itself! FG have a history of doing this..Labour went along for the ride this time. A general election can’t come soon enough! Enda and Joan need to be flung out the door as soon as possible! Imagine a Taoiseach who is afraid of a debate! Its embarrassing!
Leave him alone liam!! You’re just trolling now with your anti-Enda hate crimes!! What about that absolute grilling administered by Miriam Last week on our nations public AND privately funded Media station. Joking aside it is laughable at this stage. They are hopeless and have to go. This whole widening of the gap between rich and poor is a genuine worry too. You can see it on the streets of cork. More and more homelss everyday and as pointed out in the article above the pay level and security of all these jobs being created isn’t all that great. #endasucks
Give me a break, this is hogwash. One of the main problems in Ireland, which nobody wants to acknowledge is the fact that we have a nearly unsustainable social welfare system. Working people are having massive amounts of their salary going to people who either don’t want to work or deem themselves too good for certain jobs. I also have serious issue with a welfare system which is built to provide for long term welfare recipients, while entrepreneurs who take the risk of starting a business and creating jobs cannot.
That sounds like fascist FG speak.
Forcing people to work against their will.
Yet again we see Capitalism supporting all the other isms
Never voted for fg in my life and don’t intend to. Sorry I don’t fit you pigeon holing and am unsurprised to receive the general fascist response that comes from most uneducated and moronic socialists that appear on these pages.
Don’t like my argument, try argue against it, instead of seeking likes from other lefties who don’t engage in debate only shout insults when someone disagrees with them.
That’s bull. The majority of social protection is pensions
Rob the system hasnt been like that in years ur misinformed
The dole accounts for about 25% of the welfare budget. It is far from being the main cause of our problems like you wish to portray.
To be fair the money lost in the social welfare system is substantial and should be looked into more however if we were to prioritise I would be looking a lax tax laws and tax evasion at the top. A recent example been the HSBC scandal which our daft government decided not to investigate. I can guarantee ten times the benefit going towards the top rather than the bottom.
Besides that way we also fix income inequality which is the basis of this article
Some families are now 4th generation welfare careerists.
An unsustainable social welfare system? Nonsense. It may be from 2013, but have a look at http://www.publicpolicy.ie/where-does-your-tax-go/. If you’re on €30,000 a year, €94.04 goes to ‘Working Age Employment Supports’. Compare that to the €694.74 you’ll be paying to service debt.
‘Working people are having massive amounts of their salary going to people who either don’t want to work or deem themselves too good for certain jobs’. Massive amounts of people’s salaries are going to servicing debt, not to those unemployed.
The elderly have paid for their pensions, who will pay for yours?
Robert the main problem here is the people, any government can’t be a democratic government if they run roughshot over what the people want in any democratic form.
But people here are begrudgers and are selfish, they let want and desire control how they behave and people here are getting more like the American system where people are only interested in people for what they can get out of them if not a favour then a laugh or an excuse for protection against reaction or fear from the truth / exposure?
If there was more to people then they could understand reality rather than living in fantasies in front of the TV and not caring what the government will end up doing to them. The government are treating the people as frogs in a pan, they know heating the water slowing will stop them jumping out before being cooked?
The government do not want anyone to work as if they did then there would be no austerity or new taxes and there would be a system to protect the self employed so that more would try and become self employed without fear. If they wanted more jobs here they would encourage manufacturing here to create more exports, instead of only wanting jobs for college layabouts under 30? We wouldn’t be in the Euro if they wanted jobs here as if we had our own currency then we wouldn’t have to borrow so much then as exports with our own currency would create exports that would cut borrowing?
The welfare system keeps the government happy as it keeps the poor poorer and in austerity you do not want too much jobs as that would effect austerity and imports with exports then would effect the overall value of the euro and this would make German exports that more expensive wouldn’t it?
there were 300,000 workers thrown onto welfare by a figure picked out of David Drumm’s rearend. Any Government that has ran with this figure and anyone on here that supports this situation must have their heads up where the figure came from -
The Irish no longer forget what the economy and the debt is based on – David Drumm’s stool chamber !
But this government with the last one has made EVERYTHING worse… for all.
the problem is there is work a job for every one but it will never happen under the present ,system we could have free heath care free education, and a dignified life, the real problem in society is to higher wages and expenses at the top and always has been to many controlling the work force and producing nothing capitalism need a surplus of labour to keep wages and condition down money earned through work for profit not for a decent living wage you speak of entrepreneurs creating jobs for whose benefit, granted they are a few decent entrepreneurs but very few, we live in a global world the country’s assets are up for grabs to highest bidder, the Irish workers built half the western world Irish are not work shy or never have been without the social welfare it would cost the country more in the long run, and i guarantee you would be worse of if we got rid of it,
Just FYI 25% is not going on the dole, i know u may have meant dsp overall but just to b clear:pensions, sick pay anD disability make up most of the dsp budget and its rates are v modest in EU15 context.
As to welfare lifers that era is coming to an end since Seamus Brennans day. Only 37000 on jobseekers have never held a job and those people ate being pushed through a (v badly designed) work activation system.
Disability abuse is next with reforms such as requring u2be in active treatment to stop people clsiming depression or addiction for longet than 5 years..all those conditions are treatable.
Its nowhere near as abused as it was really
@Robert Burke.
Funny I never heard anyone giving out too much about Social Welfare pre 2008 when everyone was happy as Larry and now that the SW payments have been slashed halved in some cases the self righteous can’t stop moaning, the fact is the working man and those on SW have all suffered the consequences of austerity measure after austerity measure.
Of course there will always be SW lifers, but this fighting among ourselves by denigrating others is counter productive.
I expect this kind of mud throwing from the I’m alright Jacks who are usually the very well off supporters of Fine Gael.
Robert well said & spot on
John Joseph Healy, your right, I was thinking it was the gap between rich and poor wages really but greed will always twist, corrupt and damage society. The problem with the Western world is the U.S. Corporate greed and everyone wants to copy this. Greed and power only creates poverty and death.
Robert people on social welfare normally spend all their money locally and when money is spent or passes hands here it is taxed but for those rich fat cats and corporations here, when they make profits in the millions… It leaves the country here and most in my view ends up in the Caymens. So who does be worst the unemployed or the fat cats?
Ryan Anth
Do you mean buggies, white goods and TV’s bought for non nationals and the HSE paying for cars for people who are classed as clinically blind as well?
You dont need degree in Sociology to recognise that fact. This is the mindset the vast majority of us are trying to get through to.
Doesnt matter where ur alligance lies on this. The black and the white of it is, we have had years of out touch, incompotent selfers workin in Goverment making decisions that effect the whole country and the brakes need to be put on. A younger fresher approach needs to be taken in Ireland when it comes to politics. An entitlement culture has OUR country f*&ked!
The government says many things but they do the opposite, the talk about equality for gays etc but how can higher new taxes bring any equality to anyone, they spin words to excuse what they do.
@ michael how can higher new taxes bring equality to anyone ? are you new to politics and economics ?
Higher new taxes just allows those in government to spend more on things that seem to please them rather than the good of anyone else, it keeps the top dogs happy and still attacks the poor.
You said to me “are you new to politics and economics”, so you know politics and economics then, tell me what new higher taxes does to those living with AUSTERITY or are unemployed, what does it do to the market for goods if people are paying more and more tax and that is increasing but the wages are not nor is social welfare. People have less money, so they spend less and jobs in the locality go down because people are not spending as much. It is simple the more you take out of a barrel the less there is left in a barrel. That is all these taxes do like the water charge and property tax which is going up in 2016. The level of poverty is increasing and yet the rich are getting richer, how can that be social justice? All higher taxes seem to do first is to allow ministers to travel the world in comfort and to keep their wages and multipensions going? Then with the rest of the tax they blow it on strange things to spend on before spending it on things like the HSE, PRIORITIES ARE NOT IN THEIR WAY OF LOOKING AT THINGS IS IT?
REMEMBER THAT EVERY TIME MONEY CHANGES HANDS HERE THE GOVERNMENT TAKES A PERCENTAGE OF IT… So you know economics tell me where all that money goes as well as the tax on oil?
That’s strange. Just heard Dan O’Brien of the Irish Times on George hook ‘s show saying all that was rubbish! He’s wrong of course, but that’s the sort of right wing nerk we have “forming opinion ” in this country.
I wouldnt Pay for the paper or turn on the radio if i was you
The four budgets introduced by FG/Lab according to the ERSI hit the poorest in society the hardest, I trust no one is surprised.
They were done by the German government for us, treating us like stupid children.
€280 annual Car Tax for the Wealthy who can afford new cars. €700 Car Tax (pre-2008) for those who can not. The poor subsidising the wealthy to drive on Irish roads. Eurostst and ERSI factor Car Tax into your model to get the real picture. Ireland is a failed society …. a disgusting dump of a place to live.
Sinn Fein constantly point out that the Gov protected the rich in last budget. Their only basis for this is that there was a 1% reduction in income tax and .5% reduction in USC for people earning between 32k and 70k. If that’s their idea of helping the rich after all the taxes the squeezed middle have been hit by then they are deluded. All tax cuts by nature help tax payers. An income tax reduction naturally helps people paying more income tax. I would like to remind Eoin that when he proposed a 15% reduction in the Property Tax for South Dublin Co Council, the people that helped the most were the owners of mansions in leafy parts of South Dublin.
Journal topic about the divide between rich and poor growing, fine gael release the trolls to spam the comment section with whataboutery, hearsay and conjecture.
Do you lot need reminding that it’s your party that is responsible?
Stop being cowards and offer an opinion, don’t just red thumb me….try grow a pair and say something meaningful.
Correction. It is a Sinn Fein spin piece and sentient people are reacting to it.
Its a piece detailing the gap between rich and poor yet you or anybody connected to the governing parties have attempted to dispute it, it’s the usual spam of whataboutery, what ifs and crystalballonomics.©
©Dermot Mc Loughlin, 25/2/2015.
It’s an article that is selective in its analysis of the facts and leans on select reports that suit the authors agenda.
It is as typically biased and agenda driven ( eg an attack on labour and tuff whom no doubt the author will be campaigning against in the next GE) as one would expect…….
Conor the ERSI has been on record as describing the last 4 budgets as regressive ie hitting the poorer the hardest, they are an independent apolitical organisation.Its terrible when an organisation who has no axe to grind states something that conflicts with FG/ Labour ‘spin’.
It’s fundamentally unfair that everyone pays the same water charge.
It should be related to household income.
If only it could done by some radical method related to the amount you use… Let’s call it usage
Impossible, that would require some sort of device to monitor the amount of water that goes into each dwelling.
Could all you guys/gals/autobots please get a real profile before staging such a silly set of comments.
Don’t worry about it, John, nobody is going to have to pay anything.
It’s fundamentally unfair to attempt to charge twice for the same service.
Surely there has to be a way to promote conservation while simultaneously keeping the tax/charge progressive instead of regressive?
The fact that your water supply is currently paid for by a central fund which is comprised of other forms of taxation at the moment doesn’t mean that you will be paying for it twice if you pay for what you use. That central fund will go to pay for the various other things that it currently pays for, but not your water supply as you will have already paid for it. This is not a difficult concept, think it through a few times and you will understand.
Pontius, you do realise that westminister decides how much money the 6 counties gets, yes?
800,000 people have their water supplied by group schemes or from private wells. Asking them to pay through general taxation for someone else’s water is definitely double taxation.
Everyone should pay for their own water and use general taxation for other purposes.
Simples.
Ron there was specific measures applied in the tax code for the provision of water years ago .So since these provisions have not been reduced I will still have paid for my water without a second charge to support a bloated quango stuffed with cronies.
Ian rural dwellers expect people living in urban areas pay tax for the upkeep of roads they will never use.Sames a fair exchange to me, part of living in a society.
Btw I thought it was 220k dwellings on a private supply/group scheme.
Perhaps what I wrote would be clearer.. if you have a child read it and explain it to you Norman..
Werejammin it is generous of you to acknowledge that Sinn Fein’s only experience running anything legal is pushing their pencil around a desk in Stormont as Westminster spends its 18 billion a year holding NI together.
Besides your 1916 panto in the Ambassador and your IRA souvenir shop on Parnell Square, can you give any other examples of Sinn Fein members engaged in any commercial endeavours or economic growth?
Besides Tom McFeely and his pyrite apartments, fuel smuggling, protection & security rackets, sale of terrorist expertise to foreign militias and attemtps to bring some order to organised crime and bank robberies domestically, who would you pick out as your leading lights in the commercial world of business growth and employment?
Ron resorting to insult looses the argument.
I already pay through my taxes, not paying twice and I take comfort in the knowledge that 100′s of thousands of people are unwilling to pay.
You take care now.; )
Makes you proud to be irish doesnt it? Its there in black and white that fg/ lab have hit lower income households the hardest for 4 straight years and then you have their supporters who are either too stupid to realise that they too fall into the same bracket thats being f¥cked over every year or they are the same breed of leech and ‘im alright so f¥ck the rest’ types that make up our govt. All this is more reason to stand together and defeat IW and then vote out the trash next GE
Ian theres no problem paying for water, if they keep the old system theres no problem with a tax break for private schemes or well owners, the problem lies in IW and the way in which billions were wasted on setting it up and on propping it up for the next few years and the biggest problem of fear of privatisation. All this could be solved but the trust is now gone and the pig ignorant way the govt lied through their teeth and then dismissed all citizens concerns as if it wasnt our money being wasted has left such a bad taste in the mouth that there may only be one way out and thats scrap IW and use the billions earmarked to prop it up for the next 3 yrs , use also the ridiculous conservation grant to invest in the infrastructure and fix our water system first so we can see we are not being taken for another ride by the govt, then people might be more open to a centralised water authority as long as it be written in stone through whatever legal means necessary by way of referendum or change in law that guarantees our water system is never privatised.
There is no argument Norman, you’re just repeatedly typing “paying twice” on your keyboard while ignoring the fact that you are not paying twice as has been explained to you in a very clear manner using only words of three syllables or less.
John…fg have spent an extraordinary amount of time in opposition, what makes you think a few fossils and a few new faces to politics know how to run a country?
Ron I never said I’ve paid twice, just once actually. However just so you’re not confused I’ve stated several times I won’t be paying twice.
falling unemployment, re-emergence of a high skill/high pay sector, re-establishing Ireland as leading global player for critical foreign direct investment, super low borrowing rates, economic growth, difficult decisions to try balance the national books and think of the big picture long term viability of the state.
I just consider the facts we see.
Yet the divide between rich and poor gets larger, more cuts to medical cards, health service suffering, education decimated….it was very easy to just go along with what ff signed off on and what the Germans demanded.
Fg have actually done nothing only increase taxes, cut services and allowed themselves to be dictated to.
Dermot you’re supposed to be blinded by the deflection.
Widening the inequality gap was the idea behind the bailout
If water conservation was really an issue, then the only fair solution is rationing. Each person gets a fixed allocation (with extra allowances for medical reasons).
I’m not sure we actually need to do this though. There’s only been a few dry summers where I remember water restrictions being announced (no washing cars / watering gardens). Those might have been avoided had the leaky infrastructure been fixed.
And while people are worried about conserving water, what about the waste of materials and labour in order to have a metering / payment system?
Thank you labour and Fine Gael for continuing off were Fianna Fáil and the greens left us and if people wonder why the real left wing and socialists party’s get made a fool off and discredit by the media and right wing party’s it’s because the people who control these are the rich and it’s in their interest vote Sinn Fein no 1
As the middle class is forced down into the poorer class they bring tales of the truth of the orgy of the upper class, then they combine and purge the island of the evil-doers.
Or to put it simply the pigs are ready for the table of the poor !
Middle class, poorer class, upper class.. define please, also working class if such a class exists in your system.
I do not explain myself to people who pick figures out of their rears -
Go back to where you came from and tell Willie Frazer to stay there !
Tuffy is some mouth piece
Shinnernomics 101. It’s the government’s fault you’re poor. Elect us and we’ll fleece the middle classes to pay for everything you think you are entitled to.
No thanks.
So, people earning over €100,000 are the middle class now, are they?
Try anyone with savings or an investment. And don’t ask me what I’m talking about. You know exactly what I’m talking about. And if you don’t it’s all there in black and white in the Shinners’ budget proposals.
And that’s just one part of nearly €2 billion Euro in NEW and MORE taxes that the Shinners want to impose on people.
Thanks but no thanks.
Yes, but the Shinners are promising that extra tax money to their demographic.
It’s a kill the golden goose strategy. Should win one election and then, once the cupboard is bare, they can revise history and tell us that they couldn’t roll out the policies they wanted to because the opposition stood in their way.
Alan o Conor
I would be considered middle class, I have savings, I have a small investment, I’m not a Sinn Fein supporter/voter, I’m actually historically a Fine Gael supporter, and I would have no problem paying a higher rate of income tax and possibly a tax on my investment/savings. It’s not something I’d like but it’s about thinking about the bigger picture, would it be better for society if I paid an extra €3-5,000 per year in tax? I think it might. Half the problem I see with the Fine Gael party and supporters is it has alienated people with that kind of I’m alright thanks attitude
Tuff quotes Fitzgerald says it all blueshirts central say no problem so no problem. Professor Fitzgerald is merely a cypher for FG economic wet dreams.
Tá timpeall deich gluaisteáin nua feicthe agam le pláta ’15′. BMW, Audi, Merc nó SUV mór…cá bhfuil an Ford Fiesta agus Toyota Starlet nua? Ró-chostasach do gnáth oibritheoir is dóigh?
I think this is slightly incorrect. The reason why we have income inequality rising is because richer people are not affected nearly as much as poorer people by recession. And they are also less affected by the subsequent cuts in public expenditure. This isn’t a policy thing, it’s fairly natural. It’s happening in the US and the UK as well. This always happens after sharp economic shocks. I think income inequality isn’t the current government’s fault, but there is some very common sense legislation they can push through to mitigate the effects until the whole system re-equillibrates. Ireland has one of the most progressive tax systems in the OECD, this is not a structural problem.
Higher rate of tax kicks in at a very very low level in Ireland compared to elsewhere. It is shockingly heavy for people on fairly low incomes.
It is part of the structure though: bring in employers with a low rate of corporation tax, and then fund the country on the income tax the employees pay.
I don’t like it, but it is the formula that works for the Ireland we have whose main asset pool is people who aren’t afraid of a hard day’s work and can compete, brain cell for brain cell with their counterparts in NY, London and elsewhere.
I agree, but that’s not an example of a regressive tax system. The Nordic countries have extremely high tax rates on people of all incomes and it just goes up the richer you get. In a progressive tax system, the poor don’t pay nothing, they just pay less than the rich people. Nobody would complain about paying high taxes if it was accompanied by a sufficient level of services, that’s where Ireland makes a balls of it compared to the Nordic countries. Our rate of taxes aren’t far off Sweden and Finland but they absolutely destroy us in terms of quality of services and a very robust poverty net.
I agree with you, when I said structural I mean the structure of the current government. In terms of long term economic structure, we simply can’t be a productive economy without tax incentives for the multinationals. Sweden especially has a massive advantage in natural resources that it uses to supplement its high tax welfare state. Norway does the same. That’s why Ireland can never truly be a Nordic country in that sense.
All we can do is plug away as you say. There’s not a whole lot we can do about it. And there’s nothing a government can really do about it either. For all of their rhetoric and bluster, Sinn Fein would be obliged to stick to the status quo or they would watch capital leaving the country in droves.
Interesting to see how little discussion of the facts in the comments to this misleading article. For example, Niall O’Broin says that the GINI coefficient is increasing but the CSO commentary attached to the relevant reports states this increase (0.1% annually from 2011 to 2013) is not statistically significant.
At a time when unemployment looks set to fall below 10% for the first time since the recession hit, this piece is further evidence that Sinn Fein simply do not have any policies to promote jobs and have turned to TASC and NERI reports for their economic advice. TASC and NERI are, of course, both trade-union think-thanks.
@ Gavin Scott are you are a keyboard warrior troll typing on behalf of FG/L being paid with our tax payers money??!!
A statement of the bleedin obvious: “The gap between the rich and poor is widening, thanks to this Government.”
Patrick Morgan is a SF/IRA economist by the look of his posting!
Sinn Feign, putting the mist into economist.
Johngahan.
Putting the nonsense into nonsense comment.
SF guy from privilege wasn’t hugged enough as a child.
If you really believe wealth comes from social welfare not employment, if you’ve completely lost confidence in your own ability to master your own destiny and write your own story, if you genuinely believe that there is no hope for you….then rather than vote for SF, go out with FG. Meet people who create jobs. Meet people who spend their time getting things done rather th as n waiting for others.
Any opinion on the actual story?
Fair play Tom, don’t answer anything…
Deflect deflect deflect.
Vote FG no 1…to grind the poorer in society further into the dust.
Is ráiteas bréagach a deirtear go chruthaítear ‘entrepreneurs’ na postanna. Ní féidir post a chruthú gan aontú idir an fostóir agus an fostaí. Is ráiteas fíorach é go bhfuil smacht an saibhris ag na ‘entrepreneurs’ agus na infheisteoirí. Sin rud difriúil ina iomláine. Má tá an bearna idir na saibhir agus na bocht ag leathanú, ciallaítear go bhfuil iomarca smacht ag beagán daoine.
Tá an bhearna ag méadú cinnte agus níos measa a bhéas sé. Breathnaigh ar SAM. Sin an treo ina bhfuilimid ag dul leis an TTIP agus is beag diospóireachta atá ann faoi.
Perhaps what I wrote would be clearer if you have a child read it and explain it to you Norman.
And his solution is ..?
more redistribution! because that’s “fair”.
Tá sé seo uilg fíor ach an bhfuil an dara rogha acu? Chuile sheans anois go mbeidh ar SF na ciorraithe céanna a dhéanamh ó thuaidh. Tá ré an jab socair imithe faraoir ach amháin do na TD’a neamhspleácha ag gearráin gan breá leo agus gan suim acu aon chumhacht a bhaint ina mbeadh orthu rud écint fiúntach a dhéanamh.
have your say