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DID YOU SEE a fireball shooting across the Irish sky last night?
If you spotted the fragment of a comet at around midnight, you’re urged to get in touch with Astronomy Ireland, who are trying to find the location where it may have landed.
David Moore, Chairman of Astronomy Ireland, told TheJournal.ie that the organisation received a number of reports about the fireball overnight.
“It’s over in a second or two so unless you happened to be recording at the time, you might not have spotted it,” he said. “If anyone’s operating CCTV equipment at night it would be well worth checking around that time.”
He said that “these things tend to happen 50 – 100 miles above the ground” so it could have been seen in any part of the country.
Last year we had three major fireball incidents and received 1000 written reports for each one. But for every one person that reports it, there are probably dozens who don’t report it. That’s why we’re appealing to people.
Once Astronomy Ireland has announced where it thinks the fireball might have landed, it encourages people to look for fragments, which will look like burnt rocks. The fragments will have had their outside melted by the fiery re-entry process and are usually smooth unless split in half.
“It’s not kryptonite; it’s not radioactive,” David said of the fragments. “The earth is made of the same stuff that these rocks are made of.”
People who email Astronomy Ireland about the fireball will be added to the mailing list for free – once it is determined if the comet fragment landed on Irish soil, they will be emailed with the possible location.
Astronomy Ireland hopes to receive enough reports this week to complete the analysis and announce results at its Star-B-Q, taking place this Saturday, August 27, in Roundwood, Co Wicklow. The event is open to all. We won’t conduct a search so people can trust us with their reports. We won’t tell anyone until we tell everyone.
David noted that collectors have paid very large sums of money for Irish meteorites in the past, as they are such a rare occurrence.
Meteorite material was discovered in Ireland in 1999 and 1969.
Fragments of the 1999 Irish meteorite sold for $500 dollars per gram on one occasion.
Astronomy Ireland estimate one fireball passes over Ireland every year, but due to weather conditions we will see just one every ten years.
Depending on the size of such fragments, some fireballs may ‘explode’ in the atmosphere with the energy of an atomic bomb.
The fireball is likely to be a piece of a comet or asteroid that passed near Earth’s orbit sometime in the past. As a general rule of thumb, the brighter a fireball is, the more likely it is to have survived the fall and landed on the earth, and last night’s fireball was reported to have been big and bright.
Those with eyewitness reports and any CCTV footage of the event can contact Astronomy Ireland at www.astronomy.ie/fireball or sign up for the mailing list at www.astronomy.ie/friends.
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Man in purple pirate hat disconnected from reality, shock survey finds
It’s officially cerise not purple just saying.
Thanks for that lol
Great comment.
its called Lilith pink to be precise.
No it isn’t.
Lilith pink for a Prince of a Church which is so frightened of sex and women. Love it!
@ Mary – a cardinal is a Prince of the Church. Not an Archbishop.
Archbishop Martin is not a cardinal therefore not a prince of the Church.
And on the other hand people flock to churches to get married even though they despise the catholic church.
Yes , and when the children reach holy communion age or confirmation they throw another big shindig with limo’s and pink hummers on hand to ferry them from the church to the local pub
Yeah Michael, I’m guilty of that! Going to do it next June, did the pre-marriage course for it and all (all-out money racket if you ask me)! Only reasons I have for it are; 1, the church is an aesthetically beautiful venue. 2, would love to get married on a cliff or on the site of an old castle ruin or something but Irish weather makes that risky business, plus the state has designated wedding venues all over the country and if its not a church then it must be in one of these and it costs a fortune! 3, the church has sentimental value for my wife to be because its right beside where she grew up and was baptised, communiionised, confimationised and leaving cert mass-ised, plus some funerals of both a close friend and a relation so its as good a venue as any for a bit of attachment. Other than that our vows are still going to be sincere and we’re marrying each other not the church, despite what the priest or anyone else might think! For me having been raised as a catholic and not practising for the last few years, its like one last hurrah, goodluck and thanks!!
My kids wont be baptised despite what their grand parents on either side say, if they want to find god and be spiritual they can do that when they are old enough to think for themselves! So communion or confirmation and pink limos wont be an issue down the road!
Congratulations John!
I am a born and raised agnostic but I still like spending time in Cathedrals occasionally.
While the aspiration is good, unfortunately you will have to go through a token baptism to get a place in the local public school, and you will have to go with communion and confirmation unless you (and your child) bravely put up with isolation from the rest of the class. Sickening, probably illegal in the EU, but it is Ireland in the 21st century.
But I agree, most churches and mosques are designed beautifully by talented architects. I wanted to get married in a lovely remote church in Donegal, but my wife’s priest didn’t do ‘Protestant’ churches and didn’t want to be Protestant for the day, unlike everyone else who gets married and have no problem with being catholic for a day.
@Alien8, If I wanted to raise sheep I’d become a sheep farmer.
@Chris Williams, I’m not religious… that doesn’t make me an atheist.
I think this thing about Primary Schools is exagerated. It is a significant issue in Britain, but certainly outside Dublin, I doubt it’s real. I think its a red herring put about by the Church to scare people, along with the other one about Church schools being better. In reality Church schools are more established and seem like a safer bet. Non-Church schools, if such things exist at Second Level (Community Schools usually have a religious member of the Board) often are less established, but have younger staffs and have cultures that are more fluid and comtemporary- not intransigent, like some of the others.
I suggest you read up on the subject. Community schools have been around since 1972, so they are well established. As for your thoughts on primary schools … There are no words.
Apologies Apolo. I misread your comment and reacted first. I agree with you
Good one John.
We’ll not entirely true, if your lucky enough to live near a non denominational school, myself and my husband are athiest so our children will be going to one of the only non Dom schools near us it’s an absolute disgrace that we literally only have one option of school to send our children I think more needs to be done there.!!!
Such is the nature of Stockholm Syndrome- bonded with the abuser.
Your wife is well into the RC cult then.
I pity this man, swimming alone against the tide of narrow-minded bigotry flowing from the upper echelons of the church in Ireland….
Why can’t the RC Church confine itself to religion and let the State address civil law without religious interference?
Separate Church and State.
The RC church is the state. The RC church control the justice system, etc with its Red Mass every year for the judges etc and people wonder why child rapists escape punishment.
Martin has more cop on than most of the rest of them. At least he acknowledges how out of touch his church is, and how irrelevant it’s teachings actually are to many of it’s followers.
He should reach out to the ACP. He should bring Fr Tony Flannery with him when he goes to discuss these findings with the Pope.
Exactly at least hes honest and admits hes not perfect he is better than some of them in terms of his compassion although he annoyed me when he held this special mass vigil for the unborn ahead of the Pro Life march
All religion, my friend, is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination, and poetry. Edgar Allen Poe.
He may have said it, but he’s wrong. Not ALL religion is like that.
@Domhnall, where is that statement wrong exactly, evidence please.
Seriously, just concrete evidence.
How about you show me concrete evidence that ALL religion ‘simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination, and poetry’? ALL religion? Where exactly was the ‘greed’ that Jesus Christ displayed when 1st century Christianity? Sweeping dismissive statements on religion are similar to saying that ALL scientific belief is wrong just because one or more scientific theories were proven incorrect, or because some scientists acted in a wrong manner.
@Domhnall Mac….
Jesus is a fictional character used by the powerful for the control of the gullible.
Wake up and smell the bullshit!
Jesus my friend is s hoax like the easter bunny tooth fairy and santa claus it is something you need to believe to make life worthwhile
Domhnall…….. look into my eyes look into my eyes………… ALL religion evolved from insecurity.. otherwise why fret?
Most historians agree that Jesus Christ was a man who lived on this earth circa 2000 years ago. Independent of everyone’s beliefs, to say he was a fictional character is just showing ignorance on the subject.
Not so…your boy has no contemporaneous references. Spartacus had a few hundred. He was a man or a myth, but most likely a myth. Actually an amalgam of other virgin-born savior gods. Look up Mithras…He has Jesus’ bio, but predates him by about 900 years. No historic evidence of the slaughter of the innocents, corpses wandering about after the resurrection, the exodus, or the rest of the whole magic show. If there is a god, it will not be some, Indo-Eqyptian-Greek-Roman knock off, it will be original. Jesus is just one of the last of the cookie cutter Christs of history that predates him.
There was a real man called Saint Nicholas too. So what?
Domhnall. Evidence (can be proven) is the basis of science. Belief (not provable) is the basis of religion
Spartacus does not have a few hundred references. Half a dozen at most. Jesus as a man has at least 4 credible references. Which is pretty typical for a figure of his contemporary stature. Plus the vast majority of real historians believe he did based on the historical non biblical evidence.The whole jesus is a figment of imagination is based on a 19th century pagan mysticists efforts remade as Zeitgeist.. quite possibly the most appalling mishmash of conspiracy theory ever conceived, littered with falsehoods and errors of fact. Funny how people reject history in favour of imagined conspiracy. Was Jesus God? I dont think so…
There most likely was a man called jesus, but was he the son of god? Impossible. There is no god.
Evolutionary theories re origin of life can not be proven
Domhnall it is not impossible that it some day we will know how life arose on the planet. Many people are working on how this came to be. Just because we don’t know something doesn’t mean we can say ‘God did it’ and just leave it. If that was the case we wouldn’t have the advances in science, medicine and technology that we now enjoy. Indeed cracking how life came about could conceivably cause huge advances in medical science.
There is no connection between the argument that a historical preacher called Jesus existed or not and the fact that we have yet to work out how life arose.
Just to be clear: theories re origin of life are referred to as Abiogenesis. The theory of evolution, for which there are many proofs, describes of how species change over time.
“Evolutionary theories re origin of life can not be proven”
There is a massive body of proof for the theory of evolution.
Name the four…don’t say Josephus, even the catholic scholars call the reference a forgery, actually an interpolation, which is bogus text inserted into valid text. Now about the other three…name them, and don’t say the 4 evangelists, as they are not contemporaneous. Spartacus was written up as he traveled up and down the boot of Italy, by hundreds of journalists, etc.
There are two references in Josephus, one probably a forgery the other probably genuine. Tacitus, Pliny, Lucian and the Babylonian Talmud are others and outside the Canonical scriptures there are multiple references to Jesus in very early (60 – 100 AD) Christian texts some of which were regarded as heretical. Spartacus is mentioned by Appian and Plutarch in the same kind of time frame after his time as the sources mentioned talk about Jesus – other classical writers a couple of hundred years after that.
Journalists you say… Name them
Tacitus’ life began in 34 CE, so he is hardly a contemporary of Jesus. My thoughts on Spartacus came from the former Christian scholar and priest, Joseph McCabe, who worked at the Vatican as a scholar, found the truth he needed, and quit.
So, not contemporary as I think you’ll find that 60 – 100 AD is most definitely AFTER the alleged lifetime of Jesus.
First, I never said the references were contemporary I said they were in the same tome frame as references to Spartacus. Second when talking about historical documents the term contemporary has a fluid meaning. Third the issue was a claim that Jesus was ficticious while Spartacus was real and a totally spurious claim of hundreds of references to Spartacus was made. Another example is Hannibal, mentioned just twice in classical writings. Do we doubt his existence? Is the argument that Jesus was not God so weak that we have to disprove his existence to establish that the Catholic church is fraudulent?
Still waiting for those names Mr Murphy.
My reference came from the late church historian, Joseph McCabe, a former priest who studied at the Vatican, learned enough to quit, and continued to write as a secularist. Please check the life dates on your references, and I think you will see they lived after Jesus, or were just children 33CE. I may have overloaded my gun with the “hundreds” of witnesses, but Spartacus did travel up and down Italy’s boot with the Roman legions chasing him. Many towns have displays of his route ( how they escaped from Vesuvius before it blew up, etc. as the Romans chased them.
Hi Marion. I was actually replying to Mark. I would say that most people who believe in evolution also believe that life originated from non living matter and without any direction. Yet science can only demonstrate that life only comes from life.
True, James. I’ve heard it said also that religion is a comfort blanket against the fear of death.
No but Josephus mentions some of Jesus’ extended family, nephews and cousins and his brother Jacob (James), who was a “righteous man” and spent most of his time at the Temple till he was murdered by the priests.
Also the jury is out on Josephus’ s mention of Jesus. Some think that at least some of it is authentic when he talks about Jesus being “a doer of wonderful deeds” which hardly sounds like the words of a Christian.
Tacitus was the official annalist of Roman history. He had the run of the imperial records back to the Emperor Augustus and maybe previous to that. He mentions the Christians “as the followers [of Christ] who suffered the extreme penalty under Pontius Pilate”.
” A clear hesitancy towards same sex marriage”
I hope that the Roman Catholics who have such clear hesitancy realise that they will not be compelled to engage in same sex marriage. Same sex marriage will not be made compulsory. I hope that clears up any worry or hesitancy.
Phew! Was a bit worried there!
So true Peter. Fundamentally so.
The church has been disconnected for so long that the sockets have changed and the plugs no longer fit
It’s about as useful as the Irish language.
The Catholic Church has actively protected paedophiles and put its own needs before children. That’s enough to disconnect me from them.
The church has been disconnected for so long , the sockets have changed and the plugs won’t fit
A good man, just like His holiness pope Francis. God bless him.
Good enough to stand by the misdeeds of the past for the greater good of the CHURCH.
You do realise the word bless means to curse someone?
Let the men in funny clerical garb dictate to their Roman Catholic adherents and let the rest of us live without Church interference.
I left the Roman Catholic Church many years ago. It no longer speaks to me, for me or represents me in any way. Devout and staunch Roman Catholics can obey the Church hierarchy and submit to us. The rest of us should not have to.
Abolish theocracy. It is time fpr a civil republic free of Rome rule.
No matter what religion you belong to about 80% of the planet believe your wrong.
you’re wrong!
Any of the other Journal readers get a religious dvd in the letterbox yesterday?
Called Creation and Miracles by Brother Michael Diamond claiming
•disproves Evolution
•Evidence of a Worldwide flood
•Blibilical miracles
•modern day miracles
•incorrupt bodies of saints
•eucharistic miracles
•shroud of turin
And wait for it the grand finale(drum roll please)
Is the World about to end? The Apocalypse explained!
Now how can any say the fundamentalists pushing this sort of superstitious nonsense and anti science agenda based on a delusion of faith is not completely disconnected from reality!
Anti science agenda OK mister science man give me your scientifically proven explanation of the universe. If the science worshippers have all the answers then please explain to the rest of us. It must be really simple judging by the arrogance. All the greatest minds in human history have pondered the origin and meaning of the universe but are still unanswered. Yet you seem to know it all.
AH, yes, better a wrong answer than an open minded exploration.
I am open to an explaination. The problem is that the science worshippers sneer and act as if all the questions of the universe are proven yet when you pin them down for an explanation they admit that they really haven’t a clue either.
Did all matter come into existence by itself from nothing? How did the laws of physics that govern the universe come to exist? How does life exist etc.
As I said on another thread I have seen documentaries where these questions were put to scientists and they admit they haven’t a clue. Why then do people who do no research speak so arrogantly as if they have all the answers.
@Ancient History
1.The burden of proof is with those who make extraordinary claims remember they require extraordinary evidence.
Thats why its called Faith! Faith meaning believing without any evidence! Now that’s just arrogant.
2.If a religious organisations claims Evolution can be disproven that is simply a combination of ignorance and delusion and a blatant refusal to accept scientific evidence. Hence anti science agenda.
3.Go to a Church and pray if you ever come seriously ill forego the Hospital with its medical treatments and scientific equipment see how you get on.
4.If you believe God/Jesus created the world with Adam and Eve as the first humans how did it work since they had 2 sons and if my memory serves me correctly their sons had only sons and if you don’t believe that story why accept any of the others?
5.The vast majority of religious people are the same religion as their parents just comes down to geographical chance and indoctrination, if you were born in Pakistan you’d most likely believe in Muhammad and his winged horse or if it was Utah USA you’d most likely believe in the Fraudulent book of Mormon and if you were born in parts of Jerusalem you’d most likely be a practising Jew.
6.The hypocritical dogmatic nonsensical stories of religion don’t offer any credible explanation of how the Universe came about and Science is still working on that and maybe one day will have the answers 100 years ago a man on tbe moon would have sounded impossible.
Science doesn’t have all the answers. Therefore I’m going to believe in magic apples and talking snakes. See you Sunday.
But I admit that I believe that the universe came about through intelligent design. My evidence is part faith and partly that the universe physically exists and conforms to the laws of physics and that conscious life exists. Also people are instinctively spiritual beings.
What do you believe? Where did everything come from?
You can attack my believe so please give your proposal for examination.
Excellent reply Mr Smith.
Actually a friend of mine got it . She was really angry . It’s different if you go out and buy it by choice but to have it pushed through your letter box is an invasion of privacy
@Ancient history
I’d like to ask you a couple of questions if thats ok with you?Of course you don’t have answer.
1.What religion are you
2.Did you choose that religion
3.How religious are your parents and your upbringing?
4.can you accept the beliefs you have would be different if you were born in a different country/culture?
5.Elsewhere in the World other people of faith some may even have stronger beliefs and convictions than you who believe in a different God/Religion/dogma and they would defend it as passionately but how can you say your religion is correct and theirs not?
6.The logic of God creating the universe good and evil etc and giving free will to humans but if you don’t accept a two thousand year old religion you’ll spend an eternity in Hell surely you see this as nonsense?
@Ancient History:
Intelligent Design is for the unintelligent!
Evolutionists obviously have great ‘faith’ according to your reasoning. With all all the scientists and labs in the world you would think that they could create one single-celled organism, and yet they haven’t. And yet the tremendous complexity of even the most simple life form is supposed to have arisen without any direction or plan?
I already outlined my beliefs and I am a Christian. I accept that everyone here will ridicule my beliefs but no science people ever want to forward their alternative. I think that they don’t have one or that it sounds so absurd they don’t want to expose themselves to ridicule. I am not against science just like to question those who pretend to have proven answers that don’t exist. I was surprised to find how many astronauts are Christians. They don’t see the use of science as a barrier to their faith.
One of the best comments ever posted on this site. I tilt my science hat in your direction james
Sounds fab! Where can I get one?
Higgs Boson man, c’mon…….. get with the program……..
Agree with ancient history on the last point. James smith is great at sneering at people with religious beliefs but avoids questions on his own beliefs
@Joe fire away with questions if you like! It’s ok for fundamentalists to knock on doors trying to convert people and leave religious propaganda without permission but when you hold them to account on things that are simply not true like their view on scientifically excepted theory like Evolution it’s name calling and sneering? I missed the call by the way was in the shower and when I got down to the door the neighbours kids playing on my road said a man gave us a DVD it’s about Jesus now that is bang out of order the kids are 5-8year olds.Its one rule for religion and if anyone tries argue the point the religious cry foul.We’ve seen this on the journal the aul persecuted Christian card.
What I care about is what’s true not what’s the most spiritually reassuring dogmatic religion is.
The fact the Vatican interfere in many sovereign countries politics and always proclaiming an arrogant morality.The same piety and morality which disappeared in the Vatican hierarchy when the choice of protecting innocent children or protecting the Church’s image came about and we all know which one they choose now that is indisputable and least you forget that was on a global scale and yet still people support and defend them.The creationists believe the earth is 6000 years old and every animal was on a giant ark(I wonder if that includes the 250k species of Beatles ;) oh and p.s I believe in logic sense and reason not superstitious indoctrinated hypercritical pious nonsense.
Yet again you offer nothing but hide behind attacking others belief as cover. This is always the experience when this topic is raised. Cowardly in the extreme.
I think every humanist/ rationalist/ atheist/ scientist owes it to themselves to read Straw Dogs by John Gray. I dont agree with ancientworld, I think ID is hokum and that what we call the Bible is a selective gathering of deeply flawed histories and myths. But too many people who proclaim Science is the only way dont actually understand it, and particularly the more complex aspects of theoretical physics, but they happily proclaim faith in it simply because it is science.
Science doesn’t claim to have all the answers. That’s why we still have science. Religion was a medium used in simpler times to explain what science couldn’t.
If you want to believe, that’s fine, but stop trying to force your beliefs on everybody.
Well said Sean. I don’t mind anyone questioning my beliefs or the bible but please don’t just snipe in the background and hide behind the word science as if you know what you are talking about.
Science is a work in progress. 500 years ago it was thought that the world was flat, and that the sun revolved around the earth – but science disproved it. Who knows what other discoveries await us in the fullness of time?
@ the doctor
I don’t force my belief on anyone and my point is not to promote Christianity here. I just wanted those who have total faith in current science to admit that they don’t have answers to any of the important universal questions. Most of you have now accepted that you have no answers now so can you all stop acting like you do. Or else reveal your proposal to examination the same way you expect others to.
If you believe that all matter in the universe magically appeared from nothing and for no reason then that is unscientific in the extreme.
Unfortunately Doctor there are people who say Science does have all the answers although why we want answers is beyond me. We are accidents of evolution on a small planet cycling a small star in ourer arm of a spiral galaxy. There is neither purpose nor meaning to life, other than a self propelled perpetuation of genes. And the bottom line is that as an extremely succesful life form we are using all the resources on the planet to acieve exponential growth rate and once thise resources run out iyr growth will plateau and our species will collapse on its self. The rock we live on will in time recover and a new species will take our place. If we all accepted this as a fact we might decide to try and get on better together, rather than sneering at each others beliefs and fighting about it. Oh and science aint gonna stop the inevitable. Neither is one of the myriad gods.
Ancient, you have constantly ignored points made in the comments to emphasise the great leaps made by scientists in the last couple of hundred years, observe carefully how this happens, a theory is proposed, arguments ensue amongst the scientific community and elsewhere, the theory is often then either proven or unproven, the results help mankind further understand the universe, modules on mars, DNA decoded etc.
By comparison how has religion been these last hundreds of years, still wear the same medieval clothing, only change their ‘laws’ when social pressure indicates a foolishness of the ‘law’ ie eating fish on Friday, head covered in church for women, Latin mass. But maintain celibacy, no women priests, same sex relationships a sin yet protect countless of their own child rapists. Put the Church before all else and protects it from change.
Scientists constantly strive for change and to constantly change science itself.
Science is not stuck in ancient myth and dogma, it is fluid and mobile and constantly discovering new things that sometimes changes science itself. If you cannot see this you are simply ignorant or at best naive.
OK you just did the same thing again. You went on an anti religion rant and proposed nothing to explain the existence of the universe. It’s getting really boring now. I already said that I’m not promoting Christianity here I am interested in hearing scientific proposals. Even Sean’s explanation avoid the most important question of how did everything begin and how did all matter and the laws of physics come into existence. It all had to come from somewhere.
A question, if you don’t mind.
Do you equal faith/believing with truth?
“Also people are instinctively spiritual beings”
How so? Instincts mainly drive action without altruism and all other traits associated with being “spiritual”. Instincts require no learning, no thinking as they are innate, not accquired and generally revolve around survival and reproduction.
“spirituality” and the need to worship result from our forefathers being unable to explain or understand stuff like why does the sun raise and go down? As they did not know but craved an explanation, the “blame game” involving or inventing a deity per issue (hence multiple gods in earlier civilisations) started.
I accept what you are saying but disagree Sean p. I think we have a deeper instinctive knowledge and desire to know our place in the universe and to seek out our creator. I don’t expect that I can change you opinion but that’s fine we can agree to differ.
Ancient , when we become ill we look to science for help, when we need warm homes we turn to science, when we need to travel abroad we turn to science, as medicine, technology and aviation rely on understanding scientific principles. Science is an umbrella term for our understanding of this universe and because our ability to comprehend the universe is constantly changing and improving so our understanding will also change. Why is this difficult for you. Try researching some scientific theories yourself. Read some science, open your mind, push yourself into this millennium.
Science IS flawed, it doesn’t have all the answers, no good scientist will claim to ‘know’ the origin of the universe, they theorise they ponder, why is this a problem? Not having all the answers is healthy and indeed vital, be open to new theory, challenge the theory with genuine curiosity not medieval hookum. Stop being afraid.
No worries here, Ancient History.
However, a deeper knowledge and desire to know stuff is not instinctive but learned and needs to be nurtured.
Sadly, this need can be manipulated into and used for certain directions.
Then you are agreeing with me that science has not got the answers. That’s all I was trying to get across. I wasn’t trying to convert everyone to Christianity. Being a Christian is just my personal choice.
I don’t really fancy living in a society where the current science theory is the only idea that can be tolerated. Especially when you get down to asking the big questions and they tell you that they don’t know and are unable to provide a single explanation. Most people seem to hold the opinion that they are just pointless talking monkeys who appeared from matter that came from nothing and that there is no point in life and we are all ultimately doomed. If that suits you fair enough but I find out rather depressing.
Fact is Ancient we don’t know how it all started and on this point theoretical physics comes pretty close to philosophy or theology… Which curiously is where modern science began with Roger Grosseteste and Roger Bacon, priests of the Catholic church. Check out Lawrence Kraus for a rejection of that view.
I will check it out thanks Sean.
“Ancient History”, – I don’t know what the profundity of what you are trying to say (“science has not got the answers”) is, – the only person misrepresenting that science claims to “have” all the answers is yourself. Nobody who has any actual involvement with science would ever make such a claim. Science is (among other things) a process for understanding the unknown, that when applied can make real, tangible differences to people’s lives (eg. the fact you are typing on a keyboard and using the internet is testament to that)
” Most people seem to hold the opinion that they are just pointless talking monkeys who appeared from matter that came from nothing and that there is no point in life and we are all ultimately doomed. ”
- No, that is entirely your misconception. Things have emergent properties and can be much more than the sum of their parts, – its like saying that a computer is just a box full of pointless silicon, magnetic media, – the box full of “materials” has phenomonal emergent properties.
It is up to each person to find their own meaning in life, and people would be well advised to think for themselves in doing so and not find it in the delusion of organised religion.
Ancient, of course science doesn’t have all the answers but it has many tangible answers, science explores space and our genes and profoundly subatomic particles etc science is like an eager adventurous child endlessly open to new possibilities, maybe science will one day find life elsewhere, which I’m sure will turn science on its head again and science is striving to make this happen. In the meantime priests, bishops an popes dress in silly medieval clothes an obsesses about sex, sex, sex.
Without scientific endeavour we all would be stuck in a cold, short and violent life obsessed with superstition and myth.
As a slight but interesting tangent do some research on who was behind the King James Bible. He was an avid bisexual and had countless homosexual relationships, there is a lot of evidence of this written by his contemporaries. Very interesting in light of the present day views if the church, hilarious and sad really. But please believe away.
@Ancient History
“I am open to an explanation. The problem is that the science worshippers sneer and act as if all the questions of the universe are proven yet when you pin them down for an explanation they admit that they really haven’t a clue either.”
First up, your use of the word “worshipper” is misplaced and naive. Science does not need to be worshipped. It either comes up with results that are correct or it does not. Theories are used as placeholders for ideas until they are either proven or unproven. And then they become fact or are dismissed.
Science and scientists often give vague answers because they do not know the answers. Scientists can theorise but they are loathe to give a definitive answer because they are not sure.
Do scientists know how or why the universe came into being? No. But they have many theories that are being explored and either proven or dismissed.
Whereas Catholicism, for example, offers a magical bearded god as the sole explanation for the creation of the universe and everything in it without any proof whatsoever. Followers are expected to accept this explanation without question.
I know which group of people I’d rather listen to.
Intelligent Design is one of the most ridiculous ideas of the last few decades, in the Creation museum in Kentucky there is a life size dinosaur, T-Rex I think, with a saddle on it’s back, to indicate that men and dinosaurs co-existed. I have so little time for religions in general, especially the catholic one, but at least the RCC acknowledge Evolution, with JPII saying that ‘evolution is no longer a mere hypothesis’.
As for the usual line of ‘there must be a reason why we are here’. No. no there isn’t, why must there be a reason? Theists claim atheists are arrogant and so self-assured, yet they proclaim that the world was created by THEIR god for THEM, that anyone who disagrees is wrong, and that THEIR god answers THEIR prayers, me, me, me, me, I am saved, He loves ME, that, for me, is the ultimate act of human arrogance, that a deity built the world and the universe for you and your fellow christians / muslims / jews / etc. etc.
“Which curiously is where modern science began with Roger Grosseteste and Roger Bacon, priests of the Catholic church.”
Wrong.
Science as we know it, in terms of looking beyond mystic, supernatural and religious explanations began in Greece with Aristotle. Then this went into decline during the dark ages with the ascendency of the Church, when the emphasis was on burning anyone that seeked to spread knowledge (eg. William Tyndale came to an early demise for having the gall to translate the bible into english from latin, which would have meant people might actually have been able to think for themselves, hence his gruesom death) .
Eventually, an empirical approach again emerged, with all the evidence suggesting that it was DESPITE the Church and most certainly not because of it,
You are all in agreement with me then that science does not have the answers and has no alternative theory that anyone is willing to put forward because the idea that everything came from nothing is obviously absurd. Why can you all not accept you have nothing to offer me as a scientific proposal. Just the same old tired boring religion attacks over and over again. Basically you are saying that you don’t believe in religion but you have no idea what you actually do believe so you are prepared to just ignore the question of how everything came into existence
You act like negative campaigners at election time. You attack the manifesto of the opponent yet won’t propose anything yourself so that you won’t be held accountable if it gets questioned. You are just going round in circles.
Almost everyone of you has admitted that science does not have the answers that’s the only point I was making.
I love science too and study it often. I love technology and gadgets. I am not someone living in a cave as you seem to imply.
In fairness Florence the Catholic church does not say God has a beard…. That is a popular symbol but I don’t believe that the Christian God’s appearance has ever been defined by theologians or others who claim it exists.
I said modern science.. and it was Grosseteste and Bacon who proposed the empirical method of Science…
So Ancient you obviously have the ‘answers’ let’s have them then, how was the universe ‘made’ really.
When was it made, how were we ‘made’ Tangible evidence now is required, you have ranted overe and over and ignored almost everything everyone else has said so please give us some real FACTS.
“You are all in agreement with me then that science does not have the answers”
- not exacly, – it has many answers, but not a specific answer re. the origin of the universe, at least yet.
“and has no alternative theory that anyone is willing to put forward because the idea that everything came from nothing is obviously absurd. ”
No, we are not in agreement here. It has a number of alternative theories. The “idea that everything came from nothing is obviously absurd. ” is incorrect, – it is one of a number of hypothesis that is taken very seriously and being studied by very eminent scientists at present.
“Why can you all not accept you have nothing to offer me as a scientific proposal. ”
There is lots to offer. I suggest you read some books, – there are heaps.
(http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=the+universe&rh=n%3A283155%2Ck%3Athe+universe)
“Just the same old tired boring religion attacks over and over again. Basically you are saying that you don’t believe in religion but you have no idea what you actually do believe so you are prepared to just ignore the question of how everything came into existence”
- A cheap straw man on your part, – we’re blue in the face of saying that the “the question of how everything came into existence” a huge focus of research in science, it is NOT being ignored,- far from it, – but you just don’t listen.
“You act like negative campaigners at election time. You attack the manifesto of the opponent yet won’t propose anything yourself so that you won’t be held accountable if it gets questioned”
- nope, there are loads of proposals other than “god must have done it”, – loads of books on the subject.
“Almost everyone of you has admitted that science does not have the answers that’s the only point I was making.”
It’s a facile point, – and its NOT the only point you are making, – you are making numerous other poorly thought out points.
“I love science too and study it often. I love technology and gadgets. I am not someone living in a cave as you seem to imply.”
… good for you.
I think you are deflecting a lot Ancient History, nobody has said science does not have the answers, merely that at present, science is incomplete, i.e., it’s getting there and will eventually, we already understand the origins of our species and have valid scientific theories as to the origins of the universe, another poster has already referenced Higgs Boson, so to say nobody is putting forward any scientific evidence and we’re just shrugging our shoulders and saying ‘You’re still wrong though’ is nonsense.
To quote you ‘ the idea that everything came from nothing is obviously absurd.’ If it’s impossible, as you propose, that everything HAS to come from something, and that NOTHING can come from nothing, where did god come from? If god came from something, then god is not god, whatever created god is now god, and if god came from nothing, well, then that nullifies your entire argument really doesn’t it?
“I said modern science.. and it was Grosseteste and Bacon who proposed the empirical method of Science…”
Empiricism has its origins much further back. Aristotle is often regarded as the father of empiricism. It also thrived in islamic cultures while the western world was busy burning witches and heretics while giving their property to the Church.
@Ancient history are you for real? Attacking beliefs? Everything I posted is factual.But you reverted to(as I mentioned already) the persecuted Christian card.
If you wish to debate the topic you are doing yourself and your points a grave disservice by just crying foul try counter the valid and well constructed points.
If you can’t no bother.
For the record I don’t have an issue with anyones personal religious beliefs provided they don’t interfere in the laws of the land.Teach psudeoscience or dogma as factual and don’t promote hatred and discrimination and actively try convert and indoctrinated.
But unfortunately we do see such actions from chiefly the Vatican and then by their satellite rogue groups.
Not to forgetting Evangelical America.
●Dictating to women on their bodies ●condemning irresponsibly contraception in the third world costing innumerable lives.
●Attacking the Homosexual people as abominations
●interference on any political issue that doesn’t align with religious dogma
●The campaign of an anti science agenda and promoting pseudoscience and mistruth like Creationism
●Covering up horrific abuses of the most vulnerable of society on a global level
●Two millennia track record of bloodshed in the name of God
Thats just some of Religions handy work can’t fit it all in the post.Also when something good happens its God’s hand when disaster strikes he works in mysterious says.
It’s very hard to reason someone out of position they didn’t reason themselves into.
@ dungeon master. You say we have valid scientific theories to the origin of the universe. Could someone please sum it up then please.
I mentioned before that the idea that we are pointless talking monkeys who are formed from matter that magically appeared from nothing and random chance. That seems to sum up what science is telling us when you strip away the covering. It isn’t really an interesting or uplifting idea to base society on is it. No wonder kids need anti depressants. If that’s how you want to think of yourself and go through life fair enough. That philosophy creates a very ruthless dog eat dog society that I don’t think really has a very hopeful future.
“In fairness Florence the Catholic church does not say God has a beard…. That is a popular symbol but I don’t believe that the Christian God’s appearance has ever been defined by theologians or others who claim it exists.!”
LOL, excellent rebuttal of her points there, – ie. address a totally irrelevent semantical detail regarding God’s beard
As you say yourself, “in fairness”….
@Ancient History. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmogony. Then try the links at the bottom of that page and then the internet is your oyster after that. The problem with origin of the universe theories is that they are not easy to understand and require some time to be spent on reviewing them. If you want to do this work then you have to put in the time and do it yourself.
I think this is one of the reasons people have difficulty with scientific theories – they are not easy to understand compared to religious ‘explanations’ and require a bit of work and time spent on them.
Ancient History, – you are getting excruciating to argue with, – and I am really begiinning to think you are just trolling at this stage…
This is just one example, you say this (again!):
“I mentioned before that the idea that we are pointless talking monkeys who are formed from matter that magically appeared from nothing and random chance. That seems to sum up what science is telling us when you strip away the covering. ”
- that point was comprehensively rebutted above, yet you simply ignore the rebuttal and repeat the same obviously flawed point. See the post above about emergent properties, things being more than a sum of parts, and the example given that a computer is much more than a box of mere “pointless” silicon and magnetic media.
Sean, what have I found here? You seem to be reading my mail as my thoughts mirror your own in this regard. My Spartacus comments come from the scholar Joseph McCabe, and his legendary blue books of the last century. He was a priest who quit to tell his truth after working in the Vatican Library. Tacitus was born in 34CE if I remember correctly, so he can’t be a contemporary reference. I have to check the others. I am impressed with your scholarship.
Where was it rebuffed Allan. You gave an example comparing what I said to the components of a computer. One thing had got nothing to do with the other. So do you think that you are nothing but a talking monkey then? According to your own theory that’s what you are.
I don’t see the point continuing any further as you all seem to be getting angry. I will thank you for an interesting debate. I did not intend to come across as a troll if that’s what you think. I think I will avoid these type of discussions here in future as it seems to offend and most of you I agree with on all other topics so I hope you have no hard feelings.
Ah Ancient I understand the reason for the name now, I could probably have a good guess as to your true identity but it is probably irrelevant. And your tactics have utterly unchanged…drone on and listen to no one. You’ll probably need a new identity next week.
Yes Alan but it was reintroduced in the west by Bacon and Grosseteste, as they struggled to prove God exists. I know it is difficult to accept but the Church did provide the possibility for scholarship and did lay foundations for the enlightenment . This is historical fact. It is also historical fact that the Church did terrible evil. It is a fact that Islamic scholars added to Greek knowledge but it is also a fact that Islamic scholars advocated the stoning of witches. And what happened to Socrates in enlightened Greece?
I am not trying to rebut her points.. I agree with her. But you weaken arguments when you add nonsense to them.
“I am not trying to rebut her points.. I agree with her. But you weaken arguments when you add nonsense to them.”
I don’t think portraying God with a beard added any nonsense to the argument as it was not relevant in any shape or form, and the depiction of God with a beard is a common and well established one. Nitpicking on such a semantic adds nothing to the discussion.
Sean, I take your point on the re-introduction etc. during the age on enlightenment. Its a matter of debate whether “modern science began” with this or not. I (and many others) would say that Aristotlian empiricism was the father of it all. Back to the enlightenment, – the Church was the only show in town and science had to “seek” origins within the parameters of the Chruch. The alternative was certain persecution. There were many others prior to the “enlightenment” who took a skeptical, empirical view of the world that was efficiently “removed” due to being contrarian with the Church.
Don’t be impressed by my scholarship. I just read and remember. Did McCabe study at the Vatican? It is of little importance whether he did or not but I am not convinced of his scholarly credentials. He certainly had opinions. The thing you must remember about classical histories is that they were pretty much all written long after the actual events. There may be statues and route maps up and down Italy about Spartacus but there are churches and holy sites right across the middle east and north Africa which purport to be connected to Jesus. Neither prove an existence. The net point is that people are happy to reject the existence of Jesus on exactly the same basis as they are prepared to accept the existence of Hannibal, Vercingetorix, Boudicca etc etc. And that in my view is a flawed logic.
It’s not really rocket science (sorry!) As they were born and grew up in a mainly Christian country it’s hardly surprising that they were mainly Christian.
Your argument about science not upsetting their faith is a bit weak. Otherwise mainstream clergy would be preaching from the pulpit against the theory of evolution. Science and religion (Christianity at any rate) have rubbed along together tolerably well for quite a while now.
Even back in the time of early Christianity it was acknowledged by many, Christian and even Jewish scholars, that the creation story in Genesis was an allegory.
@The_Voltaire: Religion is used like a spiritual stick to beat you on the head whenever you have the urge to stray away from your social bondage.
Pass it here quick!
The indoctrination of children is absolutely abusive. The Catholic Church is as bad as any cult. It is just a fancier cult. All religions are a way of controlling the masses. How many lives were unexpressed because of the dogma? They stumped creativity . They abolished all materials that were not in the vein of their teaching. They tried to keep the people ignorant and dependent. They stole money and lined their pockets.
But the people have seen the destruction and they will put it right! All is being revealed! The curtain has been pulled back. There is a renaissance happening! It is beautiful Karma!
I agree Sayre. But catholicism and the christianity that Jesus founded are two different things entirely.
Domhnall,
Yes they are.
I did not mention Christianity. Just having a rant!
The RC cult took over the Christian church and adopted Jesus as their superman hero, murdered as many Christians as possible, millions of Cathars, etc. Made war in Vietnam, murdered the Buddhists, etc.
History in our schools is selective so our children do not learn the truth.
What you you said made sense!
If only most Catholics could realise that their religious leaders are fraudsters who live in lazy luxury, while they slave away to foot the bill.
Hmmm.
So very much like less-than-average-earners subsidising and enabling the Wayne Rooneys of this world to earn in a week 10+ times more what the supporters earn in a year.
It’s everybody’s choice whether they have to follow, why and whom.
@Sean P
“So very much like less-than-average-earners subsidising and enabling the Wayne Rooneys of this world to earn in a week 10+ times more what the supporters earn in a year.”
Yeah, but as far as I’m aware Wayne Rooney is not claiming to be god. Or publicly judging other people for their life choices. Or covering up child abuse. Or making people feel bad for being who they are. Or living in 1950. Or selling babies to rich Americans. Or trying to influence state policy. Or…
In fairness Diarmuid Martin is not the worst of them.
Catholic Church and real life in general is not c
Compatible.
When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion, it is called Religion.
Robert M. Pirsig.
Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry into Values
How can this institution comment on marriage or monogamy. Its just insane and its irresponsibility around its past.
although there are some good nuns & priests out there I have yet to meet any!
You should get out more Collette.
Or to put it another way families have become disconnected from Church teaching(which happened around the time the Church decided to shy away from letting the faithful know what Church teaching actually is).
Breaking news!
The Iona Institute has made an offer of $ 19 billion for the Roman Catholic Church. The offer is open for 7 days.
As per Exodus 20:2-17 >>>>
2nd commandment:
“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
Therefore all the statues, symbols and others found in the Roman catholic religion go against the fundamentals of the religion itself… If they can’t even follow their own principles how do you want them to understand us????
I think they will survive and morph into something relevant. Their track record is 2000 years old. Their recent record i.e. 100 yrs, is very poor, but the living memory will pass and the church will survive.
Their track record across all 2000 years is pretty poor. As bad as the 20th century lot were, their ancestors were even crueler.
Bull ! The church had a problem with clerical child rape going back over a thousand years .
Here’s a little history lesson . You can see references to child rape by bishops in ancient times. This is not a modern phenomena.
Joe, their track record in the last 100 years is arguably their best.
Prior to that we had widespread crusades, public burnings of children as witches, torture of heretics, sanctioned slavery among other things.
Most people on this forum would have been facing immolation or torture for their opinions just a couple of hundred years ago.
Christinanity ( sic ) is the worst thing that ever happened to Europe.
@John Ward – Christianity is not the worst thing to have happened to Europe or the world. True Christianity simply has not been tried yet.
@David Giles:
Greetings, David.
I was considering the amount of devastation caused by (1) The Black Death and (2) Christianity.
In my honest opinion, the harmful effects of Christianity are more far reaching and more deadly than any other disease. Look at the African continent and the current poisoning of humanity in Uganda.
O tempora o mores!
Good man John, get all that poison out of your system. It can only do you good. Then I suggest you give Christianity as it should be lived a chance and you’ll be pleasantly surprised.
@John Campbell:
Thanks, John.
I got all that poison out of my system decades ago when I stopped believing in Santa etc. and started thinking for myself. A bit of research helps as well. You should try it. The tide is turning in Europe!
Why do people give a damn about what religious people think? Live your life. Don’t be an assh0le. Simple.
But it is disturbing that non-religious people get married in a church. Why would you do that?
Because they have excellent venues that cost millions to build, and somebody might as well get some use out of them.
They’re called religious people.
I’m very surprised that Archbishop Martin chose to wear the biretta when the zucchetto would have done. It doesn’t do much to help the case.
You can’t really count this article as news, as the church has been disconnected from reality for decades.
Popes, cardinals, bishops and priests should stop wearing silly hats, dresses and vestments from medieval times for a start. They need to start living in the real world of at least the twentieth century if not the twenty- first. Jesus Christ dressed simply and lived amongst the people. It is time for the church to give up the trappings and symbols inherited from the Roman Empire, the Papal States and secular world and live and walk in the shoes of the Fisherman from Galilee.
Just like you do David.
Everything in the Catholic Church is pointy. Think about it.
and your point is…?
Some priests are being discriminated against too ! Some have played with lots of boys booty holes before and should have the right to marry them <3
A literate bunch. I’ll be sure to visit again !
nice one!
Ta ! William !
When we all stop having our weddings and funerals at church the institution well eventually wither and die and we won’t have to read about archbishop what’s his faces mutterings
I’m new here. Why the 2 red thumbs. I can’t think of a reason !!!
Felix Bollard – A Serious Man | Republic Of Telly
He might have explained why the survey was not made more generally available, as it was in several other countries.
In other news, the earth continued revolving eastwards today and light still travels in a straight line.
Friction also worked.
A simple separation of church and state is what’s required in this instance.
I’m not saying to rid our country of religion. If some choose to believe in a faith then that’s their decision. If some choose to believe in no faith or many faiths then that’s their decision too. It shouldn’t be an issue unless one group attempts to impose their will on an other.
From what I see there is a close integration between church and state. This breeds the disquiet.
Perhaps all those that want to live religious lives could move closer to the North and those who want to be free of any religious interference in their lives could move closer to the South. Or East or West, whichever is easiest.
Why not have a system where we forget the old county system, because let’s be fair, it’s an imposed system designed to splinter the country for easier control.
Let’s draw a line across the country which would give split the land 50/50 in terms of who controls education and social services.
It is possible. Peacefully and efficiently.
Diarmuid martin is a courageous honorable,tolerable man.values the church has been lacking throughout the ages.
Of course these men in frocks do not live in the real world. Its all dressing up and acting really. Anyone can do it.
http://www.costumesofnashua.com/CNWebSite105/Active905/Pages/CostumeRental/Religious/ReligiousNuns.htm
Que that hate fuelled muppets
You still have some of Ends Kenny’s ejaculate on your chin.
/ thread
I agree with the headline, and i am not going to waste my time reading the article.
have your say