@ Thomas Aquinas Why is there a girl dead from illegalised drugs then?

@ Thomas Aquinas Items that kill us must be illegal to protect us? What of alcohol and it’s mate, tobacco?

You mean two of the biggest killers in the world David?

Because she took them?

Flawed logic mate… All drugs kill. That is why they are regulated. Including tobacco and alcohol. Tobacco is virtually illegal in Ireland. The other stuff is just a bit more likely to do it quicker. Kids think taking a super diluted amphetamine (which is what e’s are) need to know how long it will take to take effect, what the effects will be, what the impact on them will be… All of which is completely unpredictable. Amphetamines can kill at any dosage if you have an adverse reaction. If you want a real thrill climb a fvkkin cliff or skydive.

You can die climbing cliffs and skydiving, both of which are not widely available on a Friday or Saturday night. Yips are great fun, virtually harmless and great for going out on. You can die doing anything, so it’s best not to worry because of single cases.

@ Thomas Aquinas People will do what they will in their lives regardless. Your guilty, sabotaged drugs model has endured testing internationally and it has increased harms. The new ideology is to support drug use through decriminalisation and education. Illegal only works for some (people like you).

I’ll take the gardai’s word for it.

It beggars belief that the Gardai are actually trying to say that clean, unadulterated drugs are being sold on the streets of Dublin. You can’t even get clean weed half the time, ffs.

Not really. I’m not sure how you buy dirty weed, or what you think is in that dirty weed, but I suspect you mean the quality. Never heard of anyone cutting weed with dodgy chemicals.

Dog Standard, are you suggesting that the Gardai test the purity of all drugs they seize and they all come back as 100% uncontaminated and pure?

Seriously?

Google ‘grit weed’.

Hash in Ireland is notorious for being mixed with crap too.

Nah, I just know he hasn’t a clue what he’s on about now. It was clear enough but now I know.

SSDP, I’m suggesting that the gardai test all drugs they seize for purity. What sense would it make for them to lie about purity? Seriously? “Ye know them batch of pills are laced with rat poison so the best thing to do is not to tell the public”. I mean, come on, you’ve zero logic in that argument. As I said, yokes come in different branded batches so it’s easy to test them for content. Apart from drug dealers and drug takers I would be confident in guessing that the next group to have the closest contact with illegal drugs is the gardai. Out of those 3 groups which one do you think is most likely to test the drugs?

It’s a bit like razor blades in the apples at halloween, everyone likes to stoke the fear but it never actually happens.

You have no idea what you’re talking about.

For there to be no contaminated drugs in the country, the following would have to be true

1. The European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drugs and Drug Addiction have made up their figures, though they have no motive to do so
2. The gangs in drug producing countries like Afghanistan, Columbia, Morroco, and all the middle-man gangs in between who exist solely for profit, would have to be very honest people, though they have no motive to do so
3. The multiple reports of PMMA in ecstasy and MDMA would have to be false, though there’s no motive to do so

We have already had multiple confirmed deaths from PMMA contaminated ecstasy and MDMA in this country. It would be a world-first under prohibition for use to have no contamination in illicit drugs. We would see a huge rise in drug tourism because of this.

PMMA is the drug that kills, not the contaminant. Are you seriously suggesting that the major law enforcement agency in this country are lying? People taking PMMA may take more because it takes longer to feel the effect. These drugs kill from heat stroke, excess fluid intake or heart failure, caused by an underlying condition. What they don’t die from is it being cut with rat poison or whatever urban myth, and you don’t die as a direct result of the ingredients. You really have to ask yourself why is it that if the deaths are so low why aren’t contaminated batches killing all users? The death rate is so low it makes riding a horse or crossing the road more dangerous. Another question is why would a manufacturer use a lethal substance in drug production? It would not follow reason to kill the people using it. Pills have a much lower death rate than other drugs, this logic that evil peddlers are putting poison into them is a nonsense.

There are millions of people globally taking ecstasy, with hardly any deaths. It is a generally safe drug, that could be made safer through legalisation. There won’t be drug tourism if every country does the same. Our drug laws are outdated, and I say this as a person who has taken drugs. And still does.

PMMA is the contaminant and it kills. People buy ecstasy pills as an easily consumable form of MDMA, which, as you have stated, is a much safer drug than PMMA.

PMMA is a drug. If we had proper laws you would know what drugs you were consuming, so you have a choice whether you buy PMMA or MDMA. Both are still drugs.

http://www.drugs.ie/pma

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Para-Methoxy-N-methylamphetamine

Gardai do test the drugs they manage to seize but what about the pill that gave this girl a heart attack? Overdosing on ecstasy doesn’t cause a heart attack so something else had to be in the pill?

Heat stroke, excess fluid intake, underlying hear condition. If it was something else in the pill it would have affected everyone that took it. That didn’t happen. Seriously consider that, why did no one else end up with this terrible fate? It’s more of an anomaly, a tragedy that is in no way indicative of the contents of the drug. It would be impossible that she is the only person that took that variety of drug, when you use reason you see the logic of it all.

Nope, never heard of it. You sound like the kind of fella that bought a piece of turf as hash in school and never got over the shame. Probably smoked it anyway. Of course they use fertilizer on vegetables too…..

BTW, what actually are in these contaminated bangers?

Google it there for yourself. Sure I’m just an eejit who buys turf instead of hash. Why would you take my word for it, seeing as how you’re so obviously the one who’s so well informed here?

Pretty well informed. I don’t smoke weed anymore, so I’ve never come across this “grit weed”. From a quick google it appears its no longer in circulation anyways. The thoughts on contaminants in ecstasy are myth with no basis in fact.

Let me assure you that it is.
I’ve used cannabis for quite a long time. You’re correct in that the weed available now is the cleanest that has ever been available.
The old hash, the soapbar, back in the day was the worst. Who knew what we were smoking? Bits of plastic, the whole lot, comping out of the lump when you flamed it, greyish brown smoke rather than blueish grey, who knows the contaminates that we consumed as little more than children?
Then came the weed after that. There was weed contaminated with sand to bulk up the bag’s weight. Then there was weed sprayed with gel which made the cannabis appear as though it has crystals all over it. Even the sticks, where there is no THC, would glisten with it. When you sparked up a joint of that, it’d sparkle, I swear to God, literally sparkle like a kid’s sparkler with every second drag you took.
Things are better but more expensive now and that’s not to say that the sprayed weed is gone, it’s still there and being sold in Ireland. The only regret I have with cannabis is starting as early and as uninformed as I was.

The plastic in hash was from its packaging. The spray on weed is non-lethal, it’s the equivalent of waxing fruit.

Yeah right; packaging INSIDE the product is it? Don’t tell me that was packaging, I’ve literally pulled lumps of plastic out of soapbar hash as I flamed it from within the product.
Smoking anything is harmful to the lungs, that includes cannabis although pure cannabis smoke is non-carcinogenic. Smoking grass sprayed with a non-toxic gel is still going to damage the lungs more so than uncontaminated weed. When you buy weed, you want weed, just weed. Not weed that’s been altered by unscrupulous individuals who haven’t a clue what they’re doing to the product because they are greedy and want to make a bit more money for it.

I wouldn’t say you smoked it for long; you’d never heard of being contaminated half an hour ago and now you’re trying to tell me that the $hit in soapbar was related to packaging.
Quit while you’re ahead, man.

You’ve obviously never been into purchasing 9 bars. Ever take the plastic off one of those?

When I want an apple I want an apple, I can do without the wax. But it’s been altered by unscrupulous individuals who haven’t a clue what they’re doing to the product because they are greedy and want to make a bit more money for it. Perfectly legal too.

There’s not a chance I’d be stupid enough to admit what I’ve done or not done on a public forum when I can be so easily identified.
I’m not the one using an alias, after all.

To clarify, you know that the spray, whether toxic or non-toxic, in itself is a contaminant, yes? As I said earlier, when you buy weed, you want to buy weed and just weed. Not weed laced with non-toxic sprays. Anything, literally anything, that denatures the purity of the product is a contaminant. So it is incorrect to say that just because the contaminant is non-toxic that it is any less of a contaminant.

Yeah, I’m sure something like Blow with Johnny Depp is going down. There’s a helicopter circling outside but I reckon it’s just local cops busting my balls. Anyways your defence can be, “I was buying 9 bars of Snickers”.

As I said, apples. Or any other food with harmful contaminants. Poop in meat, insecticide on veg, and on and on. You eat it everyday, just read your ingredients. And you’re smoking weed, which in itself is awful for the lungs.

A while ago you were saying you’d never even heard of weed being contaminated, now you’re trying to justify it.

Your slow on the uptake mate, you should consider laying off the ‘erb. Just because I said I never heard of it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. I’m merely pointing out that what you call a contaminate others call an ingredient. That you think drug dealers should hold themselves to a higher moral code than food producers in pretty naive. Actually, its just baffling.

Faeces gets on meat products due to conditions during slaughter. Efforts are taken, quite stringent efforts in fact, to minimise faecal matter on meat products for sale purposes post slaughter to minimise outbreaks of salmonelloisis and other microbial diseases.
Vegetables and fruits are sprayed with insecticides which are also treated prior to sale to minimise the possibility of poisoning consumers.
Comparing these processes to drug dealers who spray grass to bulk up the weight isn’t comparing like with like.
In the aforementioned cases, efforts are made and steps are taken to minimise exposure to faeces and harmful chemicals. In the latter case, efforts are made to introduce contaminants in the name of greed and profit maxisation to the detriment of the end user.
You’ve some balls saying that I’m slow on the uptake if you can’t differentiate between the two scenarios you present, I’ll give you that much.

What about steroids in meat? How sure are you of the health risks of chemicals to the food we eat? Ever read Fast Food Nation? Steps weren’t made until after the public became aware of the fast food industry. Even take added sugars, which is basically filth for the human body. Added to maximise profit. You’ve some faith in corporations, bodies designed to milk as much profit for the smallest cost. The only thing that keeps them in check is government, and their lobby industry works pretty darn hard on preventing anything that minimises profts.

It is like with like, the only difference is one is illegal. It’s simple economics, not that difficult to grasp. You should skin up a few spliffs and watch Wall Street.

That argument is valid from an American point of view, certainly, not so much from an Irish standpoint though.
You’re not going to find steroids in Irish beef. You’re not going to see pink slime being used in fast food products in this country. You’re not going to see genetically modified food produce here nor will you find products treated with chemicals such as chlorine as is the norm in the States. Well, until TTIP come in, anyway.
I have quite a solid understanding of economics, thanks. I’ve seen Wall Street as well; never been much of a Michael Douglas fan.

It’s valid for any country that allows excess sugars in food. What’s in Coca Cola? Stuff is pure dirt. Anyways, GM is already sold here, produced or not.

https://www.fsai.ie/legislation/food_legislation/gmos/labelling_of_gm_food.html

What’s wrong with Michael Douglas? He’s great man, Romancing the Stone, War of the Roses, The Game, he’s in so many classics. Him, Devito and Turner are an awesome trio.

I think the message that should be focused on here, is not to take illegal substances in the first place!

The message should be about how to reduce harm.

Most deaths from drugs are the result of an overdose or taking a contaminated substance – prohibition increases the chance of both of these, since strength and purity can vary wildly.

You’ll rarely hear of a death due to taking ecstasy at reasonable levels. In the UK, the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs concluded than riding a horse was more risky, but moral panic trumps evidence and statistics.

An adult approach to drug use based around harm reduction is what’s needed, such as clubs providing testing kits that can check for adulterants.

There haven’t been any EU reports since Jan ’15 of PMMA we have to becareful of jumping to conclusions We have to wait for the tox reports. In other cases where tablets have contained PMMA more than has suffered side effects. This isn’t any comfort to the family.

Whether or not drugs like cocaine etc are legalised there will always be people wishing to maximise profit and thereby cost cutting by stretching pure drugs with toxic substances.
Take cigarettes for example they are legal yet many are being sole on the black market in Moore street with an array of toxic and unknown substances. Just because drugs are legalised will not necessarily say the quality will be protected. And again, illegal drugs should not be consumed in the first instance!

The idea that cigarettes sold on Moore Street contain some unknown toxic substances (more toxic than what’s normally in them?) is PR guff from retailers whose trade is affected.

Fags aren’t laced with rat droppings, or any of that nonsense, they’re bought abroad at a lower price then sold here at a profit.

Anyway, thousands of pills were taken at the weekend. Telling people not to isn’t going to solve anything. Implement a harm reduction plan, get people testing pills in clubs, legalize and regulate it to remove the profit motive from gangs.

They’re definitely not the same. I bought some before on Moore street and threw them away because they were feckin dirt.

They were either stale or had picked up off-flavours due to being stored in proximity to something unpleasant. I mean, think about it: who would go to the huge hassle and expense of adding contaminants to cigarettes only to sell them cheap? Use your brain!

WP your ideas are far too rational, logical and well thought out for the general public to accept.

In order to gain public approval and green thumbs you most have no experience in drug taking, have done zero research on the topic and then begin spew reactionary comments like drug dealers should be shot, all drugs are deadly and will kill, nobody should take any drugs (said whilst having an alcoholic beverage in your hand) etc etc.

You know nothing (John snow). Illegal cigarettes are def not the same quality as legit ones, burn down quicker, taste different etc. in your mind legalise all drugs, legalise prostitution & all will be well in the world. Do a bit of growing up before making stupid comments.