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Updated at 11.50am
THE LEADER OF the Ireland’s Catholics has said the Church felt a sense of “bereavement” at the result of last month’s same-sex marriage referendum.
Asked, on this morning’s Sean O’Rourke programme, about comments by a senior Vatican official last week that the result represented a “defeat for humanity,” Archbishop Eamon Martin stressed that many people who voted No felt a sense of loss at the result.
“One of the difficulties in the debate was that we had two parallel debates going on,” Martin said.
One was about the meaning of marriage, and the other was about respecting gay people and showing tolerance.
He said Cardinal Pietro Parolin, whose comments last week caused controversy, had been expressing “our deeply held conviction about the meaning of marriage”.
Many people in Ireland too would have been saddened by the result of the vote, Martin said.
I think what he was trying to do he was trying to express the loss that has occurred here – and we do feel it’s a loss, that something very unique and special and very precious has been lost.
He said that while there were clearly a lot of people who were ”very happy” at the result ”I think what the Cardinal was trying to do was to express that sense of loss – bereavement even”.
‘Reaching out’
Speaking at the weekend, the Archbishop said the Church needed “to reach out pastorally to different kinds of families and relationships while at the same time continuing to be advocates for a Christian vision of marriage and for the unique and fundamental contribution to society of the family founded upon the love and marriage of a man and a woman”.
After re-iterating that message once again, he was also asked in this morning’s interview about the Church’s stance on civil marriages – and whether priests would continue to act as solemnisers for the State in the wake of the referendum result.
There were warnings during the referendum campaign that priests may be prevented from carrying out that role if the Church and State’s definitions of marriage were different.
However, speaking today, Martin said his personal view was that was something the Church should be “slow to do” and that more debate was needed.
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More than any other group… What’s the point of this comparison and victimisation?
I’d imagine oaps/ the elderly dying was a greater infringement on their ability to get the shift in.
@ConPhoto: I don,t agree with this statement , as an 86 year old person I feel myself and fellow OAPs lost such a lot of sociafl life , before covid I attended Irish classes , met friends fo r lunch , visited friends and family all of that was taken away overnight and will never come back as I knew it , my days are not many now so I don,t have time to wait for changes to come , my advice to young people , yes your life has been disrupted but you have time on your hands to make it up , enjoy every moment of your life because it passes so quickly and you can,t take back one minute of it back .
@Bernie Mcgarry: Well said Bernie. Some of my over 80′s friends are now so fearful they won’t go out. All ages were impacted by this damn virus. Hopefully better days are ahead.:)
@Bernie Mcgarry: I agree with you here. Everybody suffered in some way over the course of the last few years. Saying some suffered more than others seems daft and a complete waste of time.
@Bernie Mcgarry: to be blunt, you’ve lived your life and the virus primarily attacks older age cohorts, so you would have had to sacrifice your liberty anyway. But the fact that It hardly attacks young peple at all (only 7 covid deaths out of 5707 in this country between March 2020 and December 2021 were of people under 25) means their sacrifice was much much greater. To not even ask but instead demand this sacrifice of them, which includes not only their time and liberty but also the milestones that only come about at certain times in one’s life eg the social life associated with one’s college years, and then not acknowlege the relative magnitude of the sacrifce is appalling in its ingratitude.
@ConPhoto: Adam Hallissey gets my vote for the Sanctimonious Snowflake Award 2021.
@Bernie Mcgarry: very well said. You’ll still be here when things get more normal and please stay in touch with your friends over the video chat. Have a good Christmas.
@Squarepeg01: so agree with this point, I think its selfish in reverse than an older person would “expect” a younger person to give up so much to protect them. The older person has had their time to be twenty something. I say take every precaution to protect yourself but dobt expect other age groups to indefinitely give up so much…….I know not many will understand these sentiments. Everyone seems to be up in arms at the risks of covid to older people. It’s just natures way that the old die to make room for the next generation…..
Every group has paid a price during this pandemic, and that price is retaliative to each group.
- There are people in their 60′s that have been isolated from their friends and family
- There are younger people who haven’t got to socialise etc
- There are new mums/dads who didn’t get to celebrate a birth and miss out on the support from family with a new child.
- There are people that have lost someone who again have not had the opportunity to deal properly with the grief through the normal ways.
But while some have found it very hard others have used the time to try do what they can, I’ve seen people come together to try help vulnerable people in what way they can through the various community groups that formed especially during the first lockdowns.
Doing shopping and just stopping to chat (even if through the window) while dropping off things to isolated people, this made the difference to many and its a shame that more people didn’t get involved to support people regardless of the age.
Sure its been hard, but every few decades stuff happens that can be hard. I’m sure nobody loved living through the 1918 pandemic, the great depression, WW2, cold war etc.
@Barry Somers: spot on
@Barry Somers: I could name a couple of groups who have “suffered” more than young people.
1. Healthcare workers in hospitals.
2. The elderly, many of whom couldn’t leave their homes for months or see a family member because they were in a nursing home.
This hasn’t been easy on anyone, young people included, but you are still young with your lives in front of you.
Everything isn’t about you.
@Justin Gillespie: Well said!
@Barry Somers: Well said, Barry.
@Justin Gillespie: actually, it is. A society that sacrifices it’s youth for the sake of its old and infirm has its priorities all wrong. Most young people will not suffer from this virus, but they suffer enormously from the govt reaction to it. Across the West, we’ve seen society wide lockdowns which have disproportionately affected young peopee’s education and employment. We’ve seen mask madates, enormous pressure to get vaccinated, and forcible imprisonment in internment camps (Australia), and none of this is for the sake of young people, but mostly to help selfish boomers live a little longer.
“Young people have paid the heaviest price in this pandemic”? It’s not a competition but, if the author wants to make it one I’d be inclined to say those who have lost their life or those who have lost a loved one have paid a heavier price. The front line workers in our health service have also paid a heavier price.
Written by a 20 year old
What a load of nonsense. Get a grip and pull your weight like ever other age group. Maybe think of the elderly who can’t go outside their for fear of dying.
@Fr.Todd Unctious: “Maybe think of the elderly who can’t go outside their for fear of dying.”
Can’t go outside? I must tell my elderly mother who goes outside every day.
And you’re telling the writer to get a grip?
@Will: My point is that elderly people have been impacted a lot more than “young people” and that is just one group.
Also please consider that I was referring to the height of the pandemic, before vaccinations etc.
Hope your mam is keeping well.
Poor little darlings couldn’t go to nightclubs. Diddums.
Since im in my twenties and this has deeply affected me with knowing of many of suicides. We did indeed sacrifice nights out, traveling, school/college, friends and the government just saw us as expendable as we’re young and can’t do much. But this shouldn’t be a competition, we all suffered in different ways.
@Colm Phillips: I agree with most here but you’re probably more in tune with this chap or view, so it’s refreshing to see you don’t see it that way, appreciate others have had things to deal with too. As much as I complain about covid and things I also know I’m lucky in many regards. I think people have forgotten about certain opportunity too that time locked away might present, it’ll be different for everyone but it’s certainly not all about feeling bitter about things as that’ll likely eat you up. But we’ll said young man and I’m sure you’ll make up for all you’ve missed when the time comes.
A year and a half is small percentage of a 20 years old life to sacrifice. To 80 year old it’s a huge chunk of their life sacrificed. If anyone can’t see the difference here they are deluded.
@James Fox: You just nailed it right there….best comment yet.
@James Fox: best comment on here for a long time, well said sir.
@James Fox: the youth hardly benefitted from the lockdowns since the virus barely affects them, so that alone makes their sacrifice greater. But they are also being pressured to undergo an unnecessary medical procedure that may actually harm them (eg the high incidence of myocarditis in young males) such that they would be far better off taking their chances with the disease.
@Squarepeg01: go back to sleep
Yes everyone has sacrificed, but it seems easy for the old fogies in the comments to say get over yourself having lived their youth. The young have missed out during what is supposed to be some of the best years of their lives. I salute them and hope we can get things back to some normality soon.
@Yop: would you please stop, “Some of the best years of their lives” Sais who?
As a mother of teenagers and 20 somethings, I agree with this article. I lived my life, I feel so sorry for the young people who have missed out.
@Mrs Doyle: tell that to the elderly and those who’ve died. See how much fun the Healthcare workers are having
@Mrs Doyle: it’s literally been two years, you’d swear their entire youth was gone…
@Hugh Morris: yes cos thankfully there are no healthcare workers in their 20s…..
@Anna McCarthy: with no end in sight. Vaccines haven’t been the panacea we hoped they would be, so what is our exit strategy? Zero covid? That’s unrealiztic. We will always have this virus and so we will always have these emergency measures in place until people accept that we have to live with it.
@Mrs Doyle: Missed out on what exactly, its been like what 19 months…. Im sure they will recover… jeesus wept, what is Ireland as a country turning into….
Complete nonsense. Get a bit of perspective.
Snowflake generation omg.Jesus wept
@Patrick Fennell: 100%….and they’re getting softer all the time!
What utter nonsense,if you call this suffering you need to look up the word in the dictionary, better still read a history book,it might give you some perspective.
@Michael Creagh: In that case no one should complain. There is always someone who has been trough worse.
@Nikolina Fiume: people died for the privileges we enjoy today,you know,actual sacrifice,complain all you like but don’t expect sympathy from people who have lived through far worse.
@Michael Creagh: I don’t complain. I breezed trough this situation, in fact my life got much better because I was working for it. I did everything I could so my child wouldn’t feel any of it and I made it happen. Im just saying that your comment is a nonsense. People are complaining and they have a right to it without your demagouge comment.
All I can read during this is the sense of entitlement. Clubbing is not a human right. Families weren’t able to be with dying people in hospital. Partners barred from the birth of their kids. Comparing this with a picture of people dancing in tramline … well..
Where do you find them journal?
@AJ: comments section.
I was going to say something but I might offend the snowflakes
Agree and will I feel it will all show in statistics. Look for the suicide rate :( btw I’m not in my 20
@Elly Timmons: unchanged.
@Elly Timmons: would that be the drastically unchanged suicide rate?
You’ve made a baseless claim.
I really do understand the youngsters. They are literally being locked up during their best years of their life, where you want to socialize , party , find a soul mate and have fun with your friends..
And because of the gov incompetence – no matter if you are vaccinated or not – you are simply locked away.
@John Johnes: Young people are still enjoying themselves – house parties have been happening since day 1.
Loads of congregating in public places all summer, pubs are full of young people at night.
Stop being so alarmist it’s not like we’ve been under house arrest.
@Lee King Buckett: cant disagree with you Lee , you are somewhat right on this one(at the moment) but it was a complete yoyo for the past 2 years. You must’ve forgotten when guards were called in if there are someone at your house and how long were ne night clubs and pubs closed and restricted.
@John Johnes: They are not being locked up,plain and simple.
@Daniel Roche: they are in Victoria. The irony is, the lower a county’s covid figures, the more likely they are to bring in draconian measures to eradicate it. The Western reaction to the virus has been a study in how to become more like the CCP.
I totally disagree with that article it has being an equal effort this article is very biased
Written by a young person!
What a load of BS!
Sorry but the people who have suffered the most are those who have died and their families.
Elderly and vulnerable people have suffered greatly often being unable to see their families and enjoy much needed valuable time with their loved ones as their lives gradually waste away.
Young people? So a handful of mixed gigs and festivals? Fewer opportunities to go out and socialise, missing out on catching STDs??? Oh fewer job prospects and unemployment? Oh my, well that doesn’t impact any other demographic does it now?
Stop the victim making and take responsibility!
@Tony Stanley: I don’t think the point was who had suffered the most but who had sacrificed the most. The elderly and vulnerable have not sacrificed anything as their actions were fundamentally in their own self interest. The reason young people were restricted was to protect the elderly and vulnerable, which was not in their own self interest.
Young people in Ireland have nothing to fear from this disease and as such any restrictions they endure are fundamentally sacrifices for the rest of society.
@Austin Smyth: “the elderly and vulnerable have not sacrificed anything”?
You have got to be kidding me? Many elderly and vulnerable have sacrificed their lives because of this pandemic. Those that have had to go into complete isolation have had to do so knowing they may never see their loved ones again!
The younger generations have simply given up being able to socialise and party a for a while!
I completely agree with the statement and don’t understand bad comments about it. That said, you will survive as many others did. I don’t see the purpose of making it a competition who has suffered worse. It was bad for young people, time taken that they will never get back in crucial time of their lifes when they should experience things and have fun before life and greater responsabilities hit them. I understand.
I do believe the phrase that I was taught as a youngling comes to pass here…. “life’s not fair… Get over it” now.. Go in peace to love and serve the Lord…
Putrid, fundamentally weak, self-aggrandising waffle. The basic premise of this article is: “people in their twenties matter more than people in their seventies/eighties”. That is tantamount to a watery form of fascistic ageism. There is something rotten in a society when a generation actually believes that it matters more than others based on age. Every single human, regardless of age, gender, race, etc., matters as much as the next.
@Mark Greaney: I don’t see where he even alluded to mattering more. If anything the past two years young people have been consistently blamed for the spread of the virus, dismissed at every turn if they dared mention finding it hard, were put in the firing line for not getting vaccinated quick enough despite the large uptake and the delay being forced upon them by age determined roll out and at the same time it was a lot of this cohort that were continuing to run essential services eg petrol stations, supermarkets etc. if anything the ageism was directed at them.
Since im in my twenties and this has deeply affected me with knowing of many of suicides. We did indeed sacrifice nights out, travelling, school/college, friends and the government just saw us as expendable as we’re young and can’t do much. But this shouldn’t be a competition, we all suffered in different ways.
@Colm Phillips: are you a parrot?
@Colm Phillips: What will happen when the really bad days come…..things can and will get far worse in the world,sooner rather than later,….the young are the ones who survive….they will be fine
…
@Colm Phillips: The suicide rate is unchanged.
Whilst suicide in Ireland is a genuine issue, especially amongst young males, Covid restrictions are not to blame for that.
@Colm Phillips: how will the young people manage when they face real adversity in life like losing a job, trying to making mortgage payments, trying to feed a family, looking after sick children, the list of challenges in life are endless and most are a lot tougher than not getting to socialise. Everyone has faced challenges during this pandemic so to say that the young have had it the toughest is just attention seeking at best.
@Derek Lyster: you’re hilarious. They’re never goingt to be able to get a mortgage!
@Derek Lyster: if two groups (young and old) make a sacrifice, but only one group (the old) benefits from the sacrifice, then the sacrifice by both hroups isn’t equal.
When you get to a certain age; two years is a .massive sacrifice. Young people potentially have their whole lives in front of the. It’s a ridiculous thing to be arguing about in the first place. Covid is an existential reality. Nothing anyone can so about it.
Nobody has gotten the point. Yes every age group has suffered and it’s not a competition.
But people need to recognise that between the years of 10 and 25 are very KEY to a persons mental and physical development. 2 years now which have been totally disrupted and I wouldn’t be surprised if the rates of mental health issues have doubled or tripled for this group. Not doing the LC, not doing TY, not being able to live life, having to wait 2 years to do a driving test, and indeed 20 year olds who have never seen the inside of a nightclub is something that affects them. Plus so many other factors that so many small minded people cannot even begin to fathom.
Old people have suffered socially too but the level of social impact this has had on young people is life changing.
@Tomo: Wow – how many of those who were made widows and widowers since this started got to have friends and family around them to help them through their grief?? None – they sat at home heartbroken, not being able to see anyone. What about those younger widows and widowers who are now having to raise their children by themselves and what about those children growing up minus a parent. Elderly people aren’t able to go out and enjoy their final years of life. And you seem to be forgetting that there are elderly people in this country who have lived through WWII and they lived on rations and in poverty at the start of their lives and now again in their twilight years. And you realise that as far as the sacrificing of your social life goes, the same applies to the rest of us?
@Ann Reddin: that’s an emotional argument that has no bearing on whether it is justifiable to deprive one group of liberty to protect another, when they have committed no crime. Can we also force unwanted medical procedures on them? How far is too far?
Wow!!
Wow the divisivness in comments in full flow on journal today for sure – I thought on balanve the article was making a reasonable point speaking out for younger cohorts – I think the truth is that covid had effected everyone just in differenct ways – a 20 year old not being able to socialise or an 80 year old not being able to go to a funeral of a friend impacts those people in different ways – not sure I buy this line about this generation will not achieve the standard of living of previous – it’s so flawed – ask anyone who grew up in 70s 80s ireland if they believe they had better living standards than milellianals
The harsh reality is that, maybe for the first time as a civilisation, we have ignored the “Women and Children first”, to save the elderly and the vulnerable.
@Ryan O’hUallachain: Straw man. It has never been a thing to save the women and children first and ignore the elderly and vulnerable… ever.
FFS young people never had it so good.In my day if you were gay you were laughed at beaten up and ostracized .or sent into the priesthood. No such thing as a counsellor or psychiatrist. If you had mental problems you were on your own. Stress was unheard of. If you said that to a teacher you’d get a belt. Nowadays stress is the most quoted word in schools
I would be the first to defend young people in normal circumstances, but honestly I don’t know where to go with this stuff. People have died and lost loved ones during this pandemic. They’ve lost jobs, homes, businesses. Fathers have lost babies from outside the hospital walls, unable to even hug their partner or comfort them. Loved ones have been prevented from physically comforting dying loved ones. People have been prevented from going to the funerals of ones they hold dear. The list goes on and on. Those feeling the sharp end of victimhood of a certain generation would do well to remember that they haven’t been sent to the trenches of war. They haven’t had to emigrate for the promise of opportunity. They haven’t had to wave goodbye to loved ones, not knowing when they will see them again. They’ve had to sit out a pandemic. Get a grip. You are amongst the most privileged generation, in one of the most privileged countries in the world.
Adam Hallissey gets my vote for the Sanctimonious Snowflake Award 2021.
It will never be acknowledged and young people will continue to be blamed for everything, it’s the Irish way.
The pandemic has hardly affected my granny. She hardly leaves her flat anyway and she has more people visiting her
Reading the comments it seems to me that a point has been missed. No it’s not a competition over who suffered more, we all did for different reasons. Young people suffered and made sacrifices as much as any other group despite being the group that would themselves be least likely to suffer serious illness. I think it’s unfair to dismiss them as simply as “boo hoo you missed out on nightclubs” have we all forgotten these are pivotal years? It’s the time of transition from teenagers to adulthood where we all expressed our individuality more (many embarrassing pictures to prove it) formed our opinions on life topics, had our first adult relationships etc it is a developmental stage they’re missing. All the author is asking is don’t dismiss it as simply missing out on the shift and nightclubs!
Im 35, so not too far outside the group mentioned in the article i guess. I personally think kids up to 18 are the ones that have lost out the most, because these are some of the most important years socially and developmentally, and adversity in childhood more often than not follows people into adulthood. I feel as if once you are an adult you should be conscious of the fact that life isnt perfect, can be sh!t sometimes, and we cant control what happens, only how we deal with it. It’s not much of a consolation to the lad in this article or others like him but it’s reality. Losing out on time is losing out on time, no matter what age you are. Everyone has made a large amount of individual sacrafice and i dont think, in the adult population, that any age group outranks the other.
Ah the entrenched Irish bitterness, laid out like a pre pandemic carvery special at the favourite Motorway lunch spot. Beautiful work people.
Pandemics affect everyone, therefore restrictions must also, unless certain classes of people are scientifically proven not to be a transmission risk, which is not the case with Covid, which can infect anyone. Young people need also to realise that achieving a better standard of living than their parents has never been guaranteed to any generation in human history. While we all hope for that, it may not actually happen. The likelihood of its happening rests with those who control the economy and money supply, not the poor sods who have to work their lives away in the economy, with a purposefully-restricted supply of money as their ‘reward’. There’s no rule book which guarantees that life will be easy. It isn’t and won’t be. Life is what happens, no matter your plan for it. You just do your best to get through it, then you die one day. However elaborate ones plans, or the acquisition of enough wealth to make it comfortable, life is a terminal illness from which no-one escapes alive. Spend what time you get savouring life, being alive, enjoying the company and the natural environment around you, whatever nature throws up. You’re a long time dead. Yes, restrictions are a pain to everyone, but they help keep the death rate lower than would be the case if we just continued as normal until the pandemic is over. I shudder to think how many deaths would happen in that event. Younger people can’t blame older people for pandemics. Pandemics occur naturally, as part of our existence on this globe. Restrictions are necessary because of the easy transmission of this virus, not because there’s a desire to punish people, or a particular section of people. They also pass. Don’t lose sight of that.
@Antaine O’Labhradha: the money for PUP is being borrowed from generations who haven’t been born yet, so we’re stealing from the young as well as imposing on their liberty and bodily integrity.
@Squarepeg01: Yep and we’re all paying for the bank bailout so we are all being stolen from, if that’s the way you think. We’re all still paying for the PMPA bailout too that had nothing to do with the people. And lets not forget that young people who were working part time got a €350 PUP payment when they were earing way less than that when they were working, so they benefited financially.
@Ann Reddin: I guess that makes it alright then.
Adam Hallisey gets my vote for the Sanctimonious Snowflake Award 2021.
dont agree with this at all…what about elderly people who have been in isolation not being able to see friends or family….healthcare workers….nurses….doctors….frontline workers…patients in the hospital…people who have died from Covid….dont worry the young have plenty of time to make up for it
@Jane Caslin: the disease imposed those restrictions on old people, but we as a society imposed them on everyone else.
@Squarepeg01: do you understand how a virus spreads?
You’d really think that you’d have picked that up by now.
Maybe you think only old people catch and spread it hence thinking there was no need to impose restrictions on everyone.
@Damo: if everyone were under 30 like in the movie Logan’s Run, would it matter how much the virus spread? No, because hardly anyone would suffer much more than flu-like symptoms. So there would be no need for lockdowns. Therefore – and here’s the logic bit – we had the lockdowns to protect the older age cohorts.
@Squarepeg01: Not on everyone else. On everyone. That’s the whole point.
Everyone has suffered . Little 5 year old boy in my family gets really anxious if anyone comes within 2 metres of him. So sad but but we all have to suck it up for the moment.
Where I agree that this shouldn’t be a competition as to who has suffered most, I don’t agree with the young people bashing either.. Yes, they have had major disruption but not as much as other groups but has anyone asked why young people are like this? Yes. Parents. Parents have taught these young people that life is for living and beggar the consequences. They didn’t teach themselves this..
It’s not been a cakewalk for anyone.
This is going to end up like a competition. The truth to me is that everyone suffers at all ages. The first fallacy is that youth are unaffected by Covid compared to other ages. Surely all youth are related to other age groups their younger siblings, their own infant children, their parents and grandparents. Yes there are specific social milestones youth have to struggle to achieve but there are young people with underlying conditions and who suffer from long Covid. We are all in this together. Many young people are financially and socially dependent on wider society including the OAPs whose lives provided the foundations of our affluent society. We are all bound by the social contract. So yes we feel your pain but you are not exceptional; you are equal in rights and in responsibilities.
What balderdash! It was the old who were doing most of the dying and who spent months of their shorter stock of life locked up.
W
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