What is it that you don’t understand ?

I apologise if you’re struggling with my comment, over 500 people don’t seem to be so I’ll take it that you’re in the minority. Perhaps if you break into little pieces.

Maybe read it again Patrick

Incorrect Bognor Regis, the Gardai only decide what crimes you are to be charged with, and it’s then up to the DPP to decide whether or not you will be prosecuted in a court of law. At the end of the day this is an awful case, where both GSOC and Garda management have come out very poorly. However what is pathetic is to see the AGSi using this poor man’s awful death as a weapon to attack GSOC with, too much dirty linen being washed in public for my liking.

Mick GSOC cannot appoint a High Court judge off their own bat, that can only come from the Minister. You should really listen to the interview on Radio 1.

Precisely my point. GSOC should be nowhere near this inquiry as they are now part of it.

But that is exactly what you are doing.

Or maybe they are incompetent. Maybe.

Mick have you any information to contradict what I have posted? They are general comments that I have read or heard put forward by GSOC.

Prionsias. You said and I quote “I am not here to mount a defence of GSOC”. But in every comment you have so far made you done nothing but defend GSOC.

Steve, I would recommend you buy a calendar. If the incident under investigation was on 01 January and they concluded the investigation on 27 May that is a little shy of 5 months.

My understanding is that GSOC is understaffed and has to deal with a lot more investigations than we hear about so 5 months is probably not excessive.

I have a feeling that whilst the investigation did add stress to the deceased Garda that the alledged incident was minor and the Garda was not directly involved. Unfortunately the man may have been under other stressors which cumulatively led to this tragic incident.

Mick so can I take it that you are unable to contradict the general information I have posted?

Can you post something that you think shows wrongdoing by GSOC or do you prefer to post trite comments on my posts?

So the next time a mental health nurse , prison officer , social worker or any employee that has responsibility for the members of the public or otherwise take action that may result in a suicide all they have to do is say they are understaffed and that is that. crazy argument even crazier defence of gsoc there friend

Touché. Five months.

WTF took five months? Look at the footage and interview the man. Five days maybe. How many weeks were there where NOTHING happened in this investigation? That is the question for an independent inquiry.

Steve can I ask you how long do you think it would take for a Garda investigation into a similar matter?

To examine footage and interview one man? Five days.

Prionsias. Is it the fault of the Gardai the GSOC is under staffed?

Is it the fault of the Gardai that GSOC’s work load is so high (where the vast majority of complaints are malicious and false because there is no sanction on those making such a complaint)?

Why is the burden of proof of innocence in these investigations placed on those who are accused and not on those doing the investigating?

And why in this instance did it take 5 months to look at 5mins worth of CCTV, figure out that Sgt Galvin had no case to answer, pick up a phone, send an e-mail and or post a letter to Sgt Galvin clearing him of any wrong doing?

Vocal Outrage this man was questioned under caution and told his family he feared he’d go to jail for perverting the course of justice. The stress caused by that and the fear of losing his job and his ability to provide for his family was most certainly enough to drive him to do what he did.

MY ANSWERS IN CAPITALS

Prionsias. Is it the fault of the Gardai the GSOC is under staffed? NO

Is it the fault of the Gardai that GSOC’s work load is so high (where the vast majority of complaints are malicious and false because there is no sanction on those making such a complaint)? NO

Why is the burden of proof of innocence in these investigations placed on those who are accused and not on those doing the investigating? I HAVE NO IDEA IF THAT IS ACTUALLY THE CASE BUT IN CRIMINAL TRIALS THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS IN THE HANDS OF THE PROSECUTION.

And why in this instance did it take 5 months to look at 5mins worth of CCTV, figure out that Sgt Galvin had no case to answer, pick up a phone, send an e-mail and or post a letter to Sgt Galvin clearing him of any wrong doing? AGAIN I HAVE NO IDEA BUT I KNOW IT TOOK THE GARDAI SIX MONTHS TO THE DAY TO CHARGE ME WITH A MOTORING OFFENCE!

Jane I would presume that all GSOC or Garda questioning in matters like this are done under caution.

Getting a little touchy Prionsias? Getting stressed out?

And there we have it in a nutshell. You are bitter with the Gardai because you were charged with a road traffic offence.

Mick, I am not stressed at all!

Your replies in capitals would suggest otherwise.

Mick are you for real? The motoring offence happened a very long time ago and I bear no hostility against them for doing their job. I only used that fact to point out how long Garda investigations can take and I presume GSOC also wait for the last minute before dotting the eyes and crossing the t’s!

Mick I merely replied in capitals so any reader could easily differentiate my answers from your questions. I would have thought that even you would have enough commonsense to figure that one out.

The vast majority of the readers on here are more than capable of differentiating your answers from my questions. But maybe you think that the vast majority of the Journal’s readers are to illiterate to figure it out.

Mick,
The vast majority of readers on stories like this one are Gardaí, and you’re a Prison Officer, aren’t you?

Paul. This story is in the public domain and is available to anyone to read. Or are you suggesting that the Gardai and Prison Officers have some special code to unlock these stories other only become available for them to read and comment on?
And as for what I do is irrelevant in this case.

and the gardai are understaffed aswell. would you defend the gardai so strongly if the shoe was on the other foot .

You were charged by your own admission, this man was cleared. Both instances cannot be held to comparison.

Of course they can, the Gardaí did not have to inform me if I was or was not being charged until the six months were up. I presume a similar time span will apply for GSOC.

@Proinsais

Listen Frank, you were charged with a motoring offence. This guy was led to believe he was going to lose his livelihood over what GSOC themselves have called an anomaly. Get a grip.

Motoring offence……being under investigation by gsoc looking to blame you for the tragic outcome of the incident on new years…….
No, the comparison does not hold up under any circumstance.

You do know that you have a legal right to silence under the law in all common law countries. Its a fundamental legal right protecting citizens. The gardai can’t complain of non cooperation when they investigate someone and they invoke that right. GSOC however complain of lack of cooperation when gardai (who believe it or not are actually tax paying citizens that deserve protection under the law also) invoke those rights.

Bognor GSOC had made their decision however the DPP is free to make up their own mind and could still have (but unlikely) decided to charge the Garda.

BTW I offer my condolences to this Garda’s family.

It has been reported that the deceased was cleared of any wrongdoing. I take from these reports that either gsoc felt there was no case to answer or they sent a file to the dpp who found there was no case to answer. Either way it was known by gsoc that the deceased had been cleared and this should’ve been communicated to him. Whatever your stance on ags, agsi or gsoc or wether this contributed to the deceased taking his life or not, this point is surely irrefutable.

The file was sent to the DPP. I copied the text below from the RTE website: http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0603/705493-gsoc/

He said that on 27 May the watchdog had concluded its investigation into the allegations concerning Sgt Galvin and had found no evidence to support wrongdoing.

Mr Fitzgerald said these inquiries were normally forwarded to the Director of Public Prosecutions, but he said the DPP would not be bound by the Ombudsman’s findings.

I’m afraid stating something would normally be sent to the dpp and saying it is the job of the dpp to inform someone under investigation doesn’t exonerate gsoc from failing to act accordingly. It may be up to the dpp to decide on prosecution it is the investigative body’s responsibility to keep those they are investigating up to date. Again I reiterate my initial point, if the deceased had acted as gsoc have, by being neglectful of his duties and the death occurred of a person he was investigating major questions would be asked. Garda oversight is necessary but gsoc have to answer the question and not shirk responsibility. Transparency cannot be one way.

A file would only be sent to the DPP if a charge was to be considered. In this case Sgt Galvin was completely exonerated by GSOC’s own investigation team. So it is rather disingenuous of Mr Fitzgerald to make the claim that it would be up to the DPP to inform Sgt Galvin. It is fully within the remit of GSOC to inform someone if they are no longer of interest to their investigation. So this sounds more like he is trying to pass the buck. And hence his reluctance for a Judicial inquiry into the behaviour of GSOC.

Griska. While under investigation you are automatically assumed guilty and the burden of proof of your innocence fall on you not those investigating to prove wrong doing on your part.
When you add that stress to an already extremely stressful job and possible other factors it can in some cases become the tipping point.
Now in this case there easy no complaint made against Sgt Galvin by any member of the public. He was not directly or indirectly involved in the death of this woman. He got dragged into the investigation only because he had spoken to her a few hours previous to her death. And was accused of making a false statement when he stated she was on the pavement not on the road. But as the CCTV showed it was a matter of 3 inches to the footpath. It was not as if she was in the middle of the road.

Mick, without wishing to sound cold, the details of the case are irrelevant here.
None of us here, nor the people reporting on this matter know why this man took his life.
This is an irresponsible, over-simplification of a suicide.

Griska. It would be safe to say that from what his wife and immediate family have said that this investigation put enormous stress on Sgt Galvin and as such would be safe to conclude that it was a major contributory factor in his suicide.

Mick, she’s a grieving widow, with no answers as to why the man she loved, left her in such tragic circumstances. Of course she will cast blame, as would you and I, on the people she believes caused the tragedy, esp when most of those around her at this time,in a ‘professional’ capacity, have their knives out for an organisation that they detest due to the fact they’re are answerable to them for wrongdoing, corrupt practices, lying under oath etc etc for the first time in the history of the state. Of course the poor broken-hearted wife and mother will blame GSOC, because they are the nemesis of the game-playing, bitter, insolent, twisted, sly, power-hungry, foot-stomping, never-let-a-fellow member-down-NO-MATTER-WHAT..AGSI.

Can somebody explain how the RTA victim being seen on the footpath or the road is relevant to an investigation?

Yea I remember Ian Bailey. He’s the one who tyred to sue the Gardai but then lost because the evidence he put forward was mostly made up shite. That’s the Ian Bailey you’re talking about right. The one with the legal bill for €5 million.

Randle. She saw and lived with the impact this investigation was having on him prior to his death. So she is in the prime position to know what the major cause of where his stress originated from. Hence she has asked that the GSOC have no part into the review of her husbands death and why she has called for a Judicial review by a High Court Judge. One must wonder why the GSOC is so set against such a Judicial review. Is it because the investigators do want to he investigated themselves?

Paul.Because Sgt Galvin spoke to her in the hours prior to her death.

Egg. If you were being investigated by the Gardai you would expect nay demand that the burden of proof lay with them and that your innocence would be guaranteed until proven otherwise correct?
Where as in these investigations it works the opposite way round. You the accused have to prove your innocence. Now add that stress to an already stressful environment and other factors that may or may not have contributed to Sgt Galvin’s suicide and you have a very potent mixture.

He apparently feared going to prison. You can only be committed to prison via the courts, and no matter your job you will be presumed innocent before the courts. What do you think should happen here Mick, should guards suspected of wrong doing be free from investigation because it might cause undue stress?!

He was more in fear of losing his Job and pension after 22 years service for simply not remembering the exact and precise position of someone he had spoken to while on the way to deal with another incident.

Ok, do you think guards suspected of wrongdoing should be immune from investigation?

Do I detect an idiot who is afraid to identify himself but is very vocal hiding behind a ridiculous name. Come out of your closet there MORON

Not at all. But like everyone else, everyone that serves in uniform should have the automatic assumption of innocence while under investigation. Not as it currently stands where assumption of guilt is the norm. And ANYONE found to have made a false and malicious complaint should have to face the full wrath and weight of the judicial system.

Donagh, making no points and just insulting people is not a substitute for debate. I think I can see why you became a guard though, although you do realise you could just have just gotten a penis enlargement either right?
And Mick, the remit of GSOC and their investigations isn’t their fault, it’s the way they were set up. This is just bing used by AGS as yet another ridiculously transparent method of attempting to undermine GSOC. AGS need to get used to the fact that GSOC are here to stay.

Still hiding egg head. Show us who you are and tell us when you were released from Mountjoy. I bet you were treated as innocent until found guilty. Not the other way round.

Why are you so eager to know who I am? Harder to threaten and intimidate people into silence when you don’t have their personal details, eh? A point neither gains nor loses validity based on the identity of the speaker, guard.

Egg are you sayingthe GSOC is incapable of changing their modus operandi?
The Minister nor the Dept of Justice dictate how they carry out their investigations. The Ombudman makes that decision that is why they have the independence they have.

Just as I thought ex lag. Oh by the way just like GSOC you’ve got it completely wrong

Mick, it wasn’t always so. A Garda in times past could stand up and be believed, just because they were a Garda. But nowadays the presumption of TRUST that a Garda will tell the truth, is gone. So your point above re non-presumption of innocence, while grossly unfair, is a situation many Gardai now find themselves in because other past and present members of your own ‘untouchables’ club brought on themselves through lying, cheating, bullying, racist, underhand and dishonest behaviour. Sadly.

Randle. I sense in your comments a touch of hostility towards the Gardai. (And btw I am not a a Garda).
Would it be that you have had several dealings with them?
And like every citizen of this state are not Gardai entitled to the presumption of innocence in any investigation?