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OVER TWO YEARS ago, when the Constitutional Convention was debating same-sex marriage, the Catholic Church sounded a warning.
They seemed to suggest that priests may no longer be able to carry out the civil part of a wedding if same-sex marriage became a reality.
Currently, men and women who get married in a Catholic church also complete the civil part of the ceremony by signing the Marriage Registration form. This must also be overseen and signed by a solemniser of marriages.
The vast majority of solemnisers are Roman Catholic priests and, in a submission to the Constitutional Convention, the church warned that priests may be prevented from carrying out that role if the church and State’s definitions of marriage were different.
The submission says that the Catholic Church does not recognise “any other partnerships or legal unions as having an ethical or legal equivalence with marriage”, which the Church defines as being between a man and a woman.
This is what the the Irish Episcopal Conference, the group made up of the country’s Catholic bishops, said at the time:
“Any change to the definition of marriage would create great difficulties and in the light of this, if there were two totally different definitions of marriage, the Church could no longer carry out the civil element.”
This warning was repeated again during the referendum campaign as concerns began to mount that Catholics marrying in churches may be forced to have a second civil ceremony.
The Catholic Communications Office repeated the above quote and added the following:
It is important to note that in Ireland the Church and State co-operate closely in the solemnisation of marriages and that in excess of 70% of marriages in the Republic of Ireland are celebrated by couples choosing the Christian celebration of marriage with both elements taking place within the same ceremony.
After the referendum, the Catholic Primate of All Ireland Eamon Martin was asked again about the church’s position. He said they hadn’t seen the legislation yet and needed to “look at all of these issues in due course”.
We were given a lot of assurances during the debate and during the Yes campaign that there would be no threat to the church’s celebration of marriage so we’ll have to wait and see.
Yesterday, the Irish Catholic Bishops’ Conference concluded a three-day Summer meeting in which they discussed a rang of matters. Again, marriage was on the agenda.
A statement following the meeting said that bishops appreciated the “commitment and courage” of those who campaigned for a No vote.
“We will continue to reflect on the implications of the referendum in the Bishops’ Conference and its five commissions,” the statement added.
The issue of soleminsing weddings directly came up when it was put to Bishop Eamon Martin by journalists. He seemed to suggest that it was now up to the State to decide if it wants priests to be involved.
He said the question is:
‘Does the State wish the church to continue in that role and will it be constitutional for priests to do so?’
We must wait and see.
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I remember reading the T&C on my mortgage and got a shock when it said the bank could call in the loan at any time. This was over 10 years ago.
I don’t think it is fair to those of us that are paying mortgage every month that people don’t pay their mortgage but get to stay in the house. I don’t go to work every day so there is a free house for everyone
@Louise Tracey: very true but who is getting free houses, where are they, go down to portlaoise today to the registrars court and see this free house brigade, over 70 of them up for eviction, so the vultures get the house and sell it and that family then go into a hotel at a cost of €1200 pw which comes from your taxes and the vultures that bought the loan for a fraction sell the property at a high profit and make off tax free thanks to FG policy, but never mind the fact you are now paying for the family in emergency accommodation make sure to beat the drum about that lot getting free houses
@Louise Tracey: the fact is gov policy is letting companies buy houses and vulture funds buy mortgages, and this lousy gov are delighted that people are arguing among themselves instead of with the gov over the housing crisis because its shifting the blame away from the gov. Gov could easily improve the situation for many by doing same as new zealand, where only residents can buy property, but they won’t, letting thousands go homeless.
@Louise Tracey: this is pure bs by leo too. First he’s trying to position himself on the same side as everybody else, as a potential victim like the rest of us, didn’t understand the problem etc. Then he’s saying that if they pass the new law, interest rates will rise, but he’s conveniently ignoring the fact the rates rise when the mortgage is passed onto the vultures anyway. Trying to tell us they have no options to do anything, but they have.
@Louise Tracey: the terms and conditions of any loan mandate that it can be cold in at any time which is honestly ridiculous because if you had that kind of money you wouldn’t need the loan in the first place unfortunately it just means should a bank ever decide to do that your collateral whatever that may be is forefit
@Sarah: it’s business. Every loan can be called in at any time, regardless if you have the means to pay it or not.
Even if this bill passes it can be delayed going into law; plus it might only benefit new mortgage accounts not existing agreements or vulture sales and possibly won’t save anyone currently going through court proceedings.
@Dan public:Well said Dan…people can’t see past their prejudicial noses .
@Louise Tracey: Strangely, there is a company in Dublin called the Irish Mortgage Holders Organisation (sic). Although a mortgage on a property is held by the lender, this is an organisation that represents borrowers, not lenders. Some people may be confused about how mortgages work but it is very disconcerting to discover that the head of government is one of those. I despair.
@Adrian: he’s the biggest self serving rat going. Claimed he’d reward the early risers too! Lol! Vote them out, it’s the only language they understand…
@Louise Tracey: Look at the bigger issues , it is not the people, it is the banks and the government who are allowing this to happen to people they are corrupt and merciless.
@Emmet Noonan: I don’t elect the banks to look after my interests, I elect politicians , who are meant to serve the people. The banks are a business. This fcuking dIsgrace is all on the government, not the banks !
@Louise Tracey: You ever lose your job or have financial difficulties and can’t keep up those payments I’ll be sure to have the same compassion you’re showing and laugh as a vulture fund who picked up your mortgage for pennies kicks you out of the house you’ve been in for years and paid thousands for.
Shocking how amoral and evil some of you are, able to understand how multi-billion banks can get into financial straits through gambling and losing but regular people must just be lazy and not want to pay for things. I will do a little jig and blame your laziness if the day ever comes coz you’ve earned it with your bootlicking nonsense.
@Bryan Kelly: I don’t have any problem with people getting help but not indefinitely. Years and years can’t go by with getting handouts, you have to work towards bettering your situation and not expect everyone else to pay your way.
@Louise Tracey: Still just making up stories. Who are these fictional people? Got stats? Coz vulture funds are kicking people out for missing one or two payments. Coz vulture funds don’t want the mortgages paid off, they want to kick them out first opportunity they get and sell the property.
They’re not gonna give you a better interest rate for licking their boots this much Louise. You’re a traitor allying yourself with one of the biggest enemies to REAL hardworking people right now. Disgusting.
@Bryan Kelly: Really? Vuture funds “are kicking people out for missing one or two payments”? As you yourself might say, “got stats”? I’d be very interested to hear how many people have been kicked out for missing one or two payments. Ireland has (by far) the lowest eviction rates in Europe. Generally you have to miss not one or two payments but several YEARS of payments, and even then you only have a tiny chance of being evicted. There are at least 30,000 of people in arrears in this country. Each year just a few hundred of them are evicted. And none of them have just missed one payment.
Got stats? Let’s hear them.
Protect the banks at all costs and allow the tex free vultures run riot, when your mortgage is sold to a vulture it uid then sent to a so called regulated entity to manage. Next thing as I have first hand experience with you receive a letter to say hi, your interest of 3.5 % is now 6%, here is the name and and address of the FSO and good luck with that we own your mortgage now. But they are right in one thing you have exactky the same rights whrn your mortgage is sold to a vulture, you have the right to FA
@Dan public: In the ’70s my parents had interest rates of 19% and above. Before the ‘boom’, during which most people partied without thought, I had interest rates of 6% and more. Expecting interest rates of 3.5% and expecting them to stay at 3.5% is an example of financial innocence. Company law says that publicly listed companies MUST do act to maximise profits for their shareholders.
@Dan public: You are right. If you are on a variable rate mortgage the bank can change the interest rate any time it likes. So your 3% mortgage can become a 5% mortgage overnight just because AIB or whoever says so. But because the main banks are in this business for the long term they won’t do that to you. A vulture fund might. So as you say, you have exactly the same rights with a vulture fund, which is none. You depend on your lender acting reasonably which is why you don’t want a vulture fund.
@sean o’dhubhghaill: house costs back then we’re only two or three times your wage. I doubt we’ll ever see a return to those kind of interest rates. Out of curiosity, why wouldn’t you have went with a fixed rate when you bought? I’m trying to save for a mortgage at the moment and I think a fixed rate looks more appealing.
Its an absolute joke on this Irish people. This government along with the banks wrecked the economy. This banking debacle the IMF and the EU. Now they are selling on under performing mortgages… The vulture funds have an non-disclosure agreement. We don’t even now who the investors are behind the fund. To top it all of they are tax free… I think we would be surprised if we found the list of investors more than likely current members if the government are involved and making money from this sell out!
@pete: A lot of these Vulture funds leeching in Ireland can be traced back to Goldman Sachs.
Housing is deliberately being priced out of the reach of ordinary people. Newly built houses being bought off the plans in blocks, for cash, by “investment companies”, Vultures.
What Leo isn’t telling us is that this the whole housing debacle is FG policy. The end game is Mortgage to Rent. Ordinary people are not to buy a home, but rent one. That way the asset stays in the hands of the Vultures, a huge return on the investment guaranteed. What happens when your working life is over and your pension won’t cover the Mortage to Rent has yet to be revealed.
FFG only care about the interests of banks and investment companies. Ordinary people do not matter, are of no interest for FFG.
@pete: was it not FF? You might say they’re the same but they’re now sitting on the other side of the house – FFG is just a term invented on social media
@Niall: nah. Wouldn’t have needed to be created by the media. Two showers of w*nkers that have been in power here for nearly a hundred years and sent many Irish people down the swanny. The only thing that separates them is name …
@Dave Doyle: ecactly.
What is a free house Louise?
Every time there’s an article re: houses mortgages etc there’s always a comment about a free house!
@Marian Frawley: is not a “free house” a non brewery owned pub in the UK?
@Garry Brady: Aye it is lol or could it be…
“Parents away for the weekend”.. free house.. Party!!
@Marian Frawley: It is when your old pair go away for the weekend and you can have the lads over for a house party .
@Roy Dowling: Mr know it all really knows nowt! Check your facts..
There’s no such thing as free houses, social housing is given on means basis, income assessed etc
May you get down from the ivory tower…
@Roy Dowling: No Hap Roy.. It is based on your income & deposit is required, granted not as much if you willing go & get a mortgage for a house. Try not to blame ppl on swelfare because you can’t afford your mortgage!
Council houses are unfurnished, no repairs are carried out by most councils, not all sing from the same hymn sheet, depends where you live. Nothing comes free.
@Marian Frawley: absolute bs council’s have to do repairs like any landlord. only one person in this conversation in an ivory tower
@Marian Frawley: Who says I can’t afford a mortgage?, And since when is a house bought by a mortgage furnished? Clearly you have no idea what your talking about.
Plenty comes for free when your only income is social welfare and you get a council house. in fact everything is free for them as they don’t do anything for what they get.
@Roy Dowling: FG types always know these people who never worked a day in their lives and get free houses you people must keep really bad company or do you need proven loyalty to the blue party of the Vultures, Bankers and Corporations to receive these benefits.
Seriously, stop repeating this lazy lie, its way past its use by date.
@Marian Frawley: of course there is. When you are given free money. It’s free. There are some gap payments I believe of up to e2500 in Dublin, you think that acceptable , your neighbor scratching his ass all day, while you work to provide for yourself and your neighbors Ilk. Of course the spineless government makes the rules, they are the ones to blame!
@Roy Dowling: Roy , their argument is these people might have to make some pittance payment. Which they do … with the free money they get ! The struggle is real !!!
@ed w: That’s true Ed, the only thing the council do is cheap rents. No ivory tower here
@Jointheclubtoo: mad how you assume I am a FG type because you don’t agree with me. Just so you I don’t support FG, FF, SF, or any party. None of them are worth supporting in my opinion there all the same.
And please tell me what lie am I’m telling?. Take Margret Cash for example. When has she ever worked or done anything to help herself?
Answer never, she demands the state give her everything cause she “entitled” to it.
Maybe my opinion would change when housing charity’s stop using her and others like her as there sad cases.
@Roy Dowling: Now that’s bs. Not everyone on swelfare get things free. As I said before Check your Facts!! You just assume all are scroungers.
@Shane Murphy: Using that logic, TD’s are on free money since they don’t show up for work and only scratch their assets if the whip demands their presence.
@Marian Frawley: Where did I say everyone? I think you’ll find I didn’t. again your just assuming.
@Roy Dowling: If that’s the case why don’t you compare the relative pittance Margaret Cash got to what the top welfare spongers ie. the banks, ‘financial consultants’ developers, and bankruptcy tourists take.
@Roy Dowling: For the love of all things holy, you said everyone on social welfare…
I think you’ll find your comment was deleted, either by yourself or who knows? Above it looks like I’m talking to the wall… Obviously
@Marian Frawley: Actually I said those who have never worked a day in there life and never worked a day in there life. does that mean everyone on social welfare? Again your just assuming things
@Roy Dowling: **Their for there
Actually in your own words
“Plenty comes for free when your only income is social welfare and you get a council house. In fact everything is free for them” etc
There you go making presumptions about “them”.. Who’s them you refer too?
Them that everything free…oh please
@Marian Frawley: cop on lad we all know who he’s talking about. There’s families of nothings out there generations of scrounges who have got everything for free and never worked a day in their life.
@Marian Frawley: for them, means those who’s been on welfare there whole life without contributing at thing as I stated above.
Good to know you’ve resorted to correcting spelling shows you’ve run out of ideas.
People seem to miss the point that, when a vulture fund and the likes buy up property(which is usually in bulk) they then get to dictate the rental price on the market. They, and the banks are soley responsible as to why the property rental market is extortionately (and artificially) high. This is why funds from all over the world are coming to the Irish market. Its highly profitable, yeilds a high return, and the Government and the central bank will do nothing about it.
@Doubtchya Boy!: eh no. You’re surprised a business wants to maximize profit ? This scandal is of the governments making and on its behind closed doors wishlist. Varadkar will be having wet dreams about selling his country men as life long financial wh*res, not just to him , but now his mates in Kennedy Wilson etc. paying no tax , while the little man pays a fifty percent marginal rate! Quite spectacular!
In fairness Leo doesnt know a lot
Ask yourself the question Leo the Liar. Why are banks selling loans to Vulture funds? Even why are Vulture funds buying up vast amounts of loans and now swaths of property before even built? Let me answer Leo the Liar… Greed and profit. They do not offer the same protection as banks. They will not wait 35 years for their monies. Tell the truth for once Leo. The shit will hit the fan very hard very soon when all monies are called and the true extent of the great FFG sell of is seen..
@Willy: yep and we’ll reward them by re-electing them. So can you blame them for doing what they like
@Bill Clay: Varadcar and the financial expert Simon Harris must go.I know we have been scraping the bottom of the political barrel for years now as our best brains emigrated for a better future but come on, surely we can do better than these two conmen?
@Gus Sheridan: I never voted FFG, not one preference ever. Nor SF, but I think that’s all there is at the moment, I’m willing to give them a try.
One thing is certain though, FFG must go
@Willy: please comment in moderate temperate language you’d be understood much better.
Taoiseach says he didn’t realise how quickly his mortgage would be paid off, even if he losses his job at the next election. That’s the reality of the situation, this man probably doesn’t even worry about it. Like James Blunt he has no mortgage either!
“Higher mortgage rates?” We are already paying amongst the highest interest rates in Europe.
@George Vladisavljevic:
We also have among the highest default rates and lowest eviction rates in Europe – if these were more in line with Europe our mortgage rates would also be more in line.
@The Great Unwashed: We had an unusually large home ownership rate, and one of the highest loan to income mortgage rates… therefore when it went bang it was worse here. The problem is its these same banks who lent the money to us are now charging us more to fix their balance sheets. Those who cant pay extortionate rates are removed. This repossession wasn’t viable until equity returned to values.
In short you are misguided in thinking its lack of repossession is causing high rates its repairing a bad balance sheet. So in essence we are rewarding the worst bankers in the word.
@Emmet Doyle:
The case could certainly be made that banks were lending too much money to people who shouldn’t have got it, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s high levels of default (compounded by low rates of eviction) that have given rise to the bad balance sheets that have in turn led to higher interest rates.
“I know it wouldn’t make a difference because first of all I am meeting my repayments” – is that literally an “I’m alright Jack” statement? Woah, the indifference is staggering. Fairplay to Doherty for calling out their doomsday predictions as being BS as well, also don’t think anyone really believes the FG line that Central Bank arw independent anymore… if they say they do they’re fools or liars.
@Tony O’Regan: Yeah that line irked me too. No bother paying his mortgage when you earn a few G’s a week. Gob-shite of a man.
@Tony O’Regan: meeting his payments and no doubt ‘claiming’ them back on his expenses !! funny how none of the fg trolls on here ever call out tds for getting ‘fre houses” after all are they not using public/tax payers money to fund their mortgage or 2nd mortgage ?
Jeses i would love to get one of these free houses, but i think someone on the journal is telling porky pies, they are non existent unless you are a vulture fund they buy the house off your bank for 70% discount then they charge the mortgage holder 130% that is = to a free house tax free. Daylight robbery condoned by the banks & fg.
first of all im making my repayments…….thats great leo, you should remind a few of your ministers and friends who own big media companies, that repaying debts they owe is always a good thing, rather than getting write offs or ignoring them.
The s varuka varadkar is the flaw. The bankers water boy. Has enda Kenny got a new job with a vulture? Corrupt vermin
600,000? Is that all? leaves a lot of ‘asset rich’ folks out there. Explains a little bit why we have the government that we do and for so long too. This country is like a Ponzi scheme.
Dya hear that lads Leo’s one of us, b*llsh!t.
And he’s our leader!
“First of all I am making my re-payments” what a smug pr*ck
So they had a vote and it was 80 for the legislation and 45 against .. why now are they debating it? If it was voted for enact it that’s what they are elected to do!!
So the Taoiseach didn’t read the small print when he was making probably what will be the biggest purchase in his life? Well, lucky for us, it wasn’t something costing millions and millions, like a hospit…. oh wait!
Unfortunately everytime he opens his mouth stupid comes out
@Dnom: Seems to be the trend everywhere lately.
What’s actually a joke is people are allowing all this to happen with their heads burned in the sand
I’d say it’s Along time since Varadker made a mortgage payment- FG never have given a continental kahuuts about anyone except the wealth hoarders ie big farmers and the likes
It makes you wonder why someone other bank would buy a bad debt. Could someone explain to me if someone has come into difficulty paying one bank, how would suddenly pay another and why another bank would take that on.
A contract is a contract.
If the loan is repaid on contract terms, who owns it doesn’t matter.
If the loan defaults, who owns it doesn’t matter.
The biggest problem Fine Gael have is the fact that Sinn Fein high lighted this 12 months ago and were totally ignored by these clowns who have torn this Country to shreds and have no idea how to fix any problem.
Can somebody please get this nation back on Irish soil please ( this is unreal as I misspelled and twitter police is controlling this ). Let’s be very clear on this, if we fall behind on mortgage repayments we incur penalties, by the banks, if we have the luxury to pay off a lump sum of the mortgage, we incur penalties, by the banks……
Please advise me where there is any leeway on this madness, then our ‘government’ sells off those that are communicating but simply cannot meet banks bailiffs etc
We are a model nation, a country to be utterly proud of a government we voted for. Europe Abú!!!
@Sean O’Reilly: Europe Abú!!! ??? What is the percentage of ethnic Irish in your homeland now?
Wish to ask a question
If the vurturefund claim to be a mortgage provider yet they are not a bank so there for they can’t just decide on an interest rate at three times the interest rate was off your bank and also why if this is the case why are these people trapped in with these vurlerfunds and are unable to sell there home to pay off there loan why be trapped with a company that is just fraud and are not law and how can they break into your house and take your belonging and then put your home up for auction take photos off you and others in your property with a drone and put it all over the media and then still expect you to except this without court proceeding involved off any kind do this all behind your backs because that’s what has happened to me and I have a mica home
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