I couldn’t figure out who he was talking to one minute he is talking to the presenter. The next he is talking to Mary Lou but his eyes each time are going in different directions. One thing I took from it was that there needed to be investment in Irish Water to set up a fund where the company could leverrage money on the markets, abit like a Credit Union Loan. Sounds fair enough until he muttered:

“This then will take the allocation the government has put aside for water each year and takes it off the government’s books.”

What does that mean. Well it can mean a number of things. The main thing that rings an alarm bell for me is that the money we pay for water in other taxes is going to go somewhere else.

Where is that money going to go?
Health Service, Job Creation, Education etc or is it to pay back bonds?

Why hasn’t there been a costed Capital Spending Plan done for the country to show people where this new charge is going to go and when will upgrades be implemented?

People are saavy in this country. Shop around they told us. Get the best value you can for your money. We have done that and the reason why people are protesting against water charges is because there is no transparency with this system, and lets be honest anything this government is doing.

What investors? Irish Water’s shares are owned 50% by Evria, and the other 50% by the Minister for Finance.

where were all the fg and labour big guns brian hayes is a twit that scrapped into Europe, and good riddance to him, where was enda and joan over the weekend? not that anyone wants to listen anymore from either side of the argument
Decmber 10 @ Leinster hse.

I would have thought the government could have adopted a Public Private Partnership funding arrangement to fix large swathes of the worst affected regions in the country. This would have meant companies would take on the majority of the upfront costs and financial risk and in essence sell each part of the network back for the agreed rate prior to work commencing.
Why I say this is because Tony Blair built super schools all across Britain a decade ago in this way and because somebody else is predominantly reliant on the projects coming under budget the projects often are done ahead of time and under budget. In some cases the project brief was so specific for these schools via PPP that even contracts for the purchase of toilet role and fitting of it was implemented. If the government really believed in the “recovery” and updating our water supply then it wouldn’t have went down the utility bill route. It would have set up PPP projects to fix the problem now and use the upturn to pay for the projects in the future.

Coveney, the Bilderburger. Nuff said.

“On bonuses at Irish Water he said: “I don’t tolerate them, I don’t believe them, I don’t think they’re appropriate.”
What about your un vouched expenses, Alan?

Pol, methinks you are a PD double agent.

The picture looks like Basil and Manuel.. from the classic episode “Watery Fowls ” .

Pol, conscientious downgrading of the system over the years – it would seem, didn’t leave much room for thoughts of remediation. Rather, left to it’s own devices – makes for a compelling argument, though’ to set up a new Quango.

They are the current shareholders. I was talking about future investors in the market who Brian Hayes said would be used for “off balance sheet” funding of Irish Water.

I am just speaking from experience of research I have done in contract systems in the construction Industry at University. someone I am sure that uses them will perhaps have a different thing to say maybe in favor or maybe against. But there was a surplus of e400 million in water taxations last year alone. e150 million of that went into setting up the Quango: Irish Water, when there are other ways. The opposition and people in general just don’t know it yet. If the government was serious about water conservation why hasn’t there been grants to reduce the flow of water in domestic taps and showers and rainwater harvesting systems? Therein lies the problem its a money grab.
To reiterate if we used that e400 million surplus a year that is largely gone missing from our finances and use it leverage money towards a PPP investment project the work would be done by the private sector. The public sector traditionally can’t organize its stools without massive waste. Give it to private companies via direct council spending and cut this layer of fat out.
Result better value for money, less labour costs and no pension spending.

Those would be shareholders.

Nice one Paul. I have no desire to be a customer so he can save his sorry for someone else.

its a red herring the pipes were doing just fine until the troika arrived and left us with a bill

pay the water charge and you are being mugged off

December 10 @ Leinster hse

IW had a spokesperson on the Late late show saying the same thing, besides the shifting of the goalposts from water conservation to raising money off balance sheet, she did not seem to realise that whether IW is funded by the taxpayer or by their “customers” it is coming from the same peoples pockets. This off balance sheet is just an accounting trick to say we have reached the magic 3per cent were all our problems vanish.

Even Brian Hayes admitted that the entire current water taxes will be taken in by the government but the spending shifted on to the taxpayer via Irish Water. It is a complete reallocation of tax plus a sizable increase too.

@ paul flynn, 100% correct and they are sorry…oh yeah sorry they didnt get away with trying to pull the wool over the irish peoples eyes and sorry that their bonuses are threatened ..thats all they are sorry for!

Our customers ????? Our customers???? Did I read that right? Feck off the lot of ya, you have no customers, and never will, shut the kip down now and save us all more pain,

Yes. How comes they can’t understand that this is no longer there problem. The people have taken it out of there hands.all the talk in the world wont Chang the fact. We won’t pay. Game over. Have a nice day.

They can spout all they want and for the sheer arrogance of the government they will be toppled as well.

Andrew, they will butter us up with reduced charges for a year or two and then heap huge charges on us. Paschal O’Donoghue reckons that a referendum is not needed as the government would never privatise our water. Do we believe him? No we don’t! Let’s hold firm on this, enough people power and they will cave in.

If he doesn’t shut it down, we’ll take it down, meter by meter.

“If he doesn’t shut it down, we’ll take it down, meter by meter.”
You are talking serious insurrection boy..
I am with you.
Being retired, I can afford to spend a week or two in the “Hotel”.
(that’s the criminal slang for Mountjoy Jail)

Cldn’t agree with you more!!! Don’t you know though that Labour will collapse the government to try and claw back a few seats in the next election.
I was so proud to be Irish on Saturday – for once! Let’s hope none of us forget these times…

“Let them drink rain”.

laura McGonigle mentioned the fact that water costs the state 1.2bn a year – where does she think the state gets that 1.2bn exactly?

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/4/water-managementprivatizationworldbankgroupifc.html now I know who our elected leaders and taking orders from……..arrest them now for treason against the Irish people…..

IW is an expensive puppy to run and their Financial Controller has starting climbing the walls. We can bring this puppy down quite fast by simply not registering.

This is now a direct fight with the Govt. I say we crack on and show them who decides what happens in this country. It’s fight or flight time…I say we fight.

Look guys I’m not a conspiracy theorist and I usually have a right good laugh at folks who are. BUT I would have to be honest and say that I do feel big business is trying to get control of peoples water supply. We were told that we would have to pay water and property taxes cos everyone else in the EU does. OK but no one else in the EU pays prsi or vrt on cars, no other public servants in the EU pay a pension levy on top of their pension contributions.

And didn’t we set aside s certain amount of motor tax that was to go towards paying for water infrastructure? And if so how much of this has FG/Lab spent on water? According to Clare Daly only 2% of all water wasted in Ireland comes from domestic wastage. Only 2%. So why then do we have to be metered. Surely the money spent on water meters would have been better spent on installing rain water collection systems in each house (for showers and toilets before the FG die hards tell us we can’t drink it again) and that would almost eliminate the wastage. And then a modest flat fee water charge to go towards upgrading the public water infrastructure. This would be fair, this would save wastage and provide for funds for the public infrastructure.

This would tackle 98% of the wastage in a much fairer and effective way and might have even gotten the support of the electorate instead of our wrath. But no we install meters so we can be billed. It smacks of privatisation. Profit from a basic human right. Its morally wrong.

Fran, their car tax too is cheaper. I worked in holland and got an a4 size pay slip with individiual percentages assigned to specific items all ring fenced. Ireland is chaos. No responsibility or accountability. They told us Property Tax was for local services and then they gave it to super quango IW.

Privatisation is not always the answer. In fact I suspect it nots the answer at all. They have brought privatization and “competition” into the energy sector in Ireland and its worked great hasn’t it??? Em if by great you mean every company is exactly the same price and the only way you get a discount is to go through the hassle of changing company each year? And then there’s telephone and broadband. Now I’m talking about home phone here. But let’s take a look. As far as I can see all companies charge in and around the €40_45 euro a month for the basic phone/BB package so how is that competition? Oh wait again you can have a few months cheaper if you switch each year. Even the non landline companies charge around €40 a month and claim to be cheaper, its a con. It doesn’t bring competition and cheaper prices, it brings profits for companies, lower wages (greyhound anyone?) And hassle for the public (switching every year).

Fran,

You make some good points.

But, I don’t believe for one second that IW has anything to do with Water Conservation.
The reason why water meters are to be installed isn’t to give the customer the ability to save on water costs. The water meter will only act as an indication of the percentage of the overall water cost that that particular customer is required to pay.

Let me explain further.

. Let’s say IW needs 2 Billion Euro a year to run its “circus” company (And that’s all it would be, a F@@King circus).

. Now let’s also say that every household in the country is using an amount of water at whatever charge IW has set, and IW are collecting the 2 Billion Euro.
IW is happy, they can run their circus for another 12 months.

. The following year the customers try to get their water charges down, by being careful with their water usage. Some have invested in water harvesting equipment, hoping to recoup that investment cost with water charge savings. Some only flush the toilet once a week. Others share baths/showers.
Due to customers’ water conservation and at the original water charge set by IW, the money that IW take from their customers, falls short of the 2 Billion Euro needed to run their circus.
The only solution that IW can come up with, is to INCREASE the water charge.

. The following year, the customers, happy with having saved some money the previous year are now doubly motivated and decide to keep up their self-imposed water austerity and try and squeeze themselves a little more. Group showering has become all the rage. And flushing the toilet once every second week is experimented with.
A month or two into the year, IW announce the increase in water charges (Enough to cover the short fall from the previous year, and a bit extra since they’re raising the charge anyway….), explaining that due to unforeseen cost of infrastructure work that the hike in water charge is necessary.
People are P!$$ed, but suck it up anyway…. (This is the start of IW pulling the classic “Frog in the Frying Pan Syndrome” trick)
Due to customers’ increased water conservation and even with IW’s new revised water charge, the money that IW take from their customers, just about meets the 2 Billion needed to run their circus.
Since they got away with it last year, IW decide to increase the water charge again.

. The following year, having pushed themselves a bit too much with their self-imposed water austerity (Group showering didn’t turn out to be as good/fun an idea as originally envisioned), the customers decide to give themselves a break and drop back to self-imposed water austerity level 1.
A month or two into the year, IW announce the second increase in water charges. This time, IW explain that the increase is necessary due to inflation and increase in cost of raw materials (Fluoride) for treating the water.
Customers are majorly P!$$ed.
Some small groups organise protests, but in general the Public just grin and bear it.
Enda Kenny announces a ½ percent increase in Child Benefit and a reduction of 20c on a pack of cigarettes to offset the water charge increase.
At the end of the year, customers having used more water than IW hoped they would use, IW have surpassed their target 2 Billion Euro and have “Made a Profit” of 100 Million Euro.
Extra Bonuses all around for IW workers!!!
Irish Water is hailed as being a “Success Story” by the EU Bureaucrats.

And the cycle continues year on year….

A little farfetched some may think, but sillier things have and can happen in this country.

Joe. They are so used to having the Irish people roll over and accept what they dish out.How thick are they, are they deaf? Do they not realize that they have pushed people too far and now it will be impossible to make IW work. A government is supposed to exist for the benefit of its people, this one is against the people and is increasingly seen as the enemy of the people sadly.

Damian you are right…car tax in Portugal…Suzuki Vitara..€41 a year, how much in Ireland?

I’m all for criticising Irish Water, but stop saying Siemens meters were free. Siemens is not a charity.

For what it’s worth, the “Siemens offered free meters” story is a myth. They don’t make water meters.

Has anyone wondered why Siemens offered them for free. Here’s something I learned recently I don’t think the vast majority of people know about.

I read a post on a forum recently about a guy had been speaking with a a couple of friends from Germany and America who were telling him about water metres and had a few stories to tell. They were aware of our current situation here in Ireland in regards to the new water metres being installed and both brought up an interesting point from an economical perspective which has yet to be addressed.

First, smart waters metres run about 250-400 euro, depending on make and model plus where you buy them. The price should also include installation. The thing is though, the manfuactures state clearly that they are only made to last between 5-8 years, depending on the model. They are not install and forget, they need to be replaced every few years else the just cease to work, and when they start to break down they start giving out extremely high readings.

For example in the states last February one city had tens of thousands of metres all just stop working at once, because the local authority did not replace them in the timeframe set by the manufacture.
http://www.abc27.com/story/24768833/failing-water-meters-still-causing-inaccurate-bills

Then we have a city in New York which is having to replace all the metres, again because they start to fail after a number of years:
http://www.niskayuna.org/Public_Documents/NiskayunaNY_Water/watermeterreplacement

In Baltimore last year the city had to pay to replace all the metres for the same reason, at a cost of 83.5 million.
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2013-11-06/news/bs-md-ci-water-meter-contract-vote-20131106_1_water-meters-water-bill-itron-inc

Or what about this guy in New York. His metre stopped working and was recording low readings. He thought nothing of it until the city came out and replaced it and found it had been malfunctioning for years, so they hit him with a bill of 2,500 for the wtaer they claim went through but due to the faulty metre was not recorded.

http://blog.timesunion.com/advocate/homeowner-gets-soaked-by-faulty-water-meter/2885/

Got me thinking, Siemens wasn’t offereing free meters, they were offering your first meter free. Every 5-8 years, you’ll be paying for a new one. While this is still a better deal than Siteserv who are offering none for free, I thouhgt it was interesting.

Has anyone heard this brought up in the media, among our political class or by Irish Water? I haven’t.

Well researched…!!
There is plenty of truth out there, only to dig it up & share.
The internet is unifying people into a cohesive force to be reckoned with.
-
” and said under no circumstances would he agree with it being privatised ” – meaningless, – his opinion is worthless.

Irish water can be privatised at the stroke of a pen, its written into the 2013 water services act. Wouldn’t surprise me if it was done on the last day of this sham government just like FF signed away more of our oil on their last day (The taoiseach who gave that the go ahead now sits on the board of Topaz oil).

Apologies Chin Feeyin its 539m if the meda are to be beleved.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/home-owners-to-pay-500-water-meter-bill-238088.html

and again copy / paste directly from examiner “German infrastructure and energy giant Siemens offered to foot the €810m-plus cost of installing meters in 1.3 million Irish homes back in 2010, but Mr Hogan didn’t pursue the option when he took over at the Department of the Environment.”

Siemens acting like a crack dealer, first one’s free and then you’re hooked.

Gkrell, top class contribution…and very scary! Water companies are unforbidding in the usa, much like the health system. No dosh ok u die.

“Got me thinking, Siemens wasn’t offering free meters, they were offering your first meter free. Every 5-8 years, you’ll be paying for a new one.”
Interesting thesis.
Kinda like the way drug dealers give you your first shoot of Heroin for free-or cigarette companies used to distribute packets of fags for free..

Folks, remember all these statements from these ppl. They can’t scare us with their threats. You can’t get blood from a stone!?!! Roll on the 10th. Either IW goes or this sham government goes. They’ve lost the support of the people and have no mandate.

I’ll be there Gaius, I’ll march ’til I die. I’m doing this for future generations, I don’t have a dog in the fight. Might I take this moment to praise the good people of Ballyheigh, mocked, ridiculed but still standing. They have shown us the way
Blessings be upon them.

I’ll see you on the day Sheik,and dead right about the people of Ballyhea,tireless and inspirational

Sorry isn’t good enough at this point…. Actions speak louder words, abolish IW or the property tax, we’re not paying both. And shouldn’t be paying either, but it’s time they negotiated in true negotiation fashion. Both sides must benefit, and we’ve waited and suffered long enough.

As I have posted on another article I’ll post here now. The way to beat this thing and bring down the government is personalise this to each and every TD. Its very simple get your local representatives email addresses. Email them instructing them to publicly denounce the water charge and Irish water as your elected representative. If your local TD is FG/Lab you also inform them in the email that if their respective party whips forbid them to this that they should resign from the party and then publicly denounce the charges. You infirm them that failure to do so will result in you not voting for them in the nest election and that you will ensure that you only fill one choice on your ballot paper. That one choice will be the person who is least likely to transfer a vote to them.

I think he only has the power if it’s a bill being signed in that requires his approval ?

Well said Tom. Modern fiat currency money is not a finite resource. It is created at will on the computer keyboards of the institutions public (central banks) and private (commercial banks) that are authorized to do so.

Sovereign currency issuing states do not need to tax in order to spend in their own currency. The act of government spending is what actually creates the money which is then later removed from the economy via taxation. Neither do those nations need to borrow their own currency from anywhere is order to finance public services such as health service or a modern, efficient, well maintained water supply network. Such a state could for example implement a large scale infrastructural improvement program to address the leakage and water quality issues which we face. This would involve the government simply crediting the bank accounts of the contractors, material providers, etc as necessary to have the network fixed with the added benefit of creating desperately needed jobs in the construction sector. This contrary to neo liberal myth is how sovereign governments (e.g. U.K) actually spend in their own currency. They face no financial constraints whatsoever in that currency.

The macro economy of nations and the globe is fundamentally different to the micro economics of business and households (private sector) who are users of the currency but not the issuer. A sovereign currency issuing government can afford to buy whatever resources are available for purchase in its own currency, (including the labour of the unemployed) as they can never run out of keystrokes and so a budget deficit should not be considered a problem once this understood.

This is why most countries can run a budget deficit most of the time and it makes perfect macro-economic sense to do so. It’s really only the Eurozone countries that are required to borrow their own currency in the market at an interest rate determined by the market. Fiat currency issuing nations like the U.S and U.K do not need to obtain dollars and sterling from the bond markets to finance a budget deficit or indeed to cover private banking debt in the domestic currency. When they do choose to issue government bonds the primary objective is to implement monetary policy (e.g. drive their chosen base interest rate to target) not as a necessity to raise revenue. In addition, when those countries do ‘borrow’ in the market, they effectively decide what the yield/interest will be unlike the Eurozone nations subject to the tender mercy of the speculators.

Another major benefit of the currency union for the capitalist elite is that that they can force cutbacks to government spending on health, education, housing, energy, transport, water etc etc as seen under the 6 year austerity program. The citizens are then pushed in to the hands of the ‘free market’ in order to obtain these basic services where they can be exploited for maximum profit. The ultimate aim is to privatize these services where the corporate sector can then gorge themselves on the resources and utilities that were once provided for the social good. This is a global trend under neo liberal jack boot economics with Irish Water being the latest manifestation here.

Creating full employment should be the primary economic policy objective of any nation that is interested in the wellbeing of the majority of it’s citizens. This maximizes the production of real wealth (goods & services) to be shared by us all and so drives up living standards for everyone.

When private sector demand falls during a recession, jobs are inevitably shed leading to a further fall in demand, deepening unemployment and declining levels of productive output. The only agent that can act as a counterweight to this process is the government/central bank. They are the issuers of the currency in most nations and so can ramp up stimulus spending in the domestic economy which manifests as money in peoples’ pockets, increasing aggregate demand and so triggering the private sector to hire people to meet the demand and so reverse the decline.

However it suits the interests of capital to have a large reserve army of unemployed to drive down then the wages and working conditions of those in employment which maximizes the returns to capital and minimizes the returns to labour (the vast majority of us). This is borne out is the data which show an ever widening gap between the obscenely wealthy elite and the rest whereby the 85 richest people in the world now hold the same wealth as the poorest 3,500,000,000.

The macro economy is a closed loop control system like a central heating boiler and thermostat. The enforced austerity program is akin to turning down the thermostat because the house is too cold. It’s terrible idea peddled by the neo liberal capitalist elite. They do this because that elite increase their relative wealth and power in both the boom and bust phases of the inherently unstable capitalist economic cycle. This is starkly demonstrated in the current recession where the world’s billionaires have doubled in number since 2008. Therefore the capitalist class and their political enablers continually promote policy and measures to inflate the booms and deepen the busts at the expense of the many. The vast majority of us are far better served by a stable system with modest economic growth ultimately limited by environmental, resource, population factors etc.

So in short coddler are you telling us that the current model is just turning us into slaves for corporations bankers and the super rich?

Irish water needs to raise 4 billion and quickly, to pay for itself. Do not give into this shite and stick together, its the peoples choice to close IW.

The USC was dumped on us and was supposed to pay the “Bank Debts” – everyone in the country was told there would be a temporary USC for as long as necessary to clear the ‘hump’.
.
Since then we have had Property Tax, Insurance Levy, Pensions Levy and now another few hundred a year in this wholly unnecessary Irish Water. Its a complete joke where the interests of faceless corporations (banks and financial institutions) are put above the welfare of the Irish public.
.
We talk a lot about the suffering in Ireland between 1845 and 1847 and are quick to blame “The Brits” for shipping food out of the country while people starved – although there is no comparison in terms of gravity, this Government is just as traitorous to the Irish population.
.
What Oath does the Government take when taking office – who do they swear to serve? – has this Government crossed the line and become subservient to international financial institutions to the detriment of the public and could their fitness to be in office be challenged.

Yep, that’s essentially it DH except they use the term ‘consumers’ rather than ‘slaves’. Just to add that there is no real meaningful democracy in Ireland or most anywhere else. Nations and the global economy are primarily run in the interests of the capitalist plutocracy and most definitely not for the benefit of the citizens.

There is a vicious class war being waged against ordinary people and most of the losing side (us) are not even aware of it and are kept largely in the dark by a compliant mainstream media. The winners under neo liberal capitalism in contrast are keenly aware of the class system and know exactly where their interests lie.

Here’s Citigroup talking to its wealthiest clients from the ruling corporate/political elite in the notorious ‘Plutonomy’ reports which were leaked a few years back.

“The World is dividing into two blocs – the Plutonomy and the rest. The U.S., UK, and Canada are the key Plutonomies – economies powered by the wealthy. Continental Europe (ex-Italy) and Japan are in the egalitarian bloc.
Equity risk premium embedded in “global imbalances” are unwarranted. In plutonomies the rich absorb a disproportionate chunk of the economy and have a massive impact on reported aggregate numbers like savings rates, current account deficits, consumption levels, etc. This imbalance in inequality expresses itself in the standard scary “global imbalances”. We worry less…….
We project that the plutonomies (the U.S., UK, and Canada) will likely see even more income inequality, disproportionately feeding off a further rise in the profit share in their economies, capitalist-friendly governments, more technology-driven productivity, and globalization………
The latest Survey of Consumer Finance data was released Friday 24th of February. It shows that the rich in the US continue to be in great shape. We thought this was good time to bang the drum on plutonomy.
Back in October, we coined the term ‘Plutonomy’ (The Global Investigator, Plutonomy: Buying Luxury, Explaining Global Imbalances, October 14 2005). Our thesis is that the rich are the dominant drivers of demand in many economies around the world (the US, UK, Canada and Australia). These economies have seen the rich take an increasing share of income and wealth over the last 20 years, to the extent that the rich now dominate income, wealth and spending in these countries. Asset booms, a rising profit share and favourable treatment by market-friendly governments have allowed the rich to prosper and become a greater share of the economy in the plutonomy countries. Also, new media dissemination technologies like internet downloading, cable and satellite TV, have disproportionately increased the audiences, and hence gains to “superstars” – think golf, soccer, and baseball players, music/TV and movie icons, fashion models, designers, celebrity chefs etc. These “content” providers, the tech whizzes who own the pipes and distribution, the lawyers and bankers who intermediate globalization and productivity, the CEOs who lead the charge in converting globalization and technology to increase the profit share of the economy at the expense of labor, all contribute to plutonomy. Indeed, David Gordon and Ian Dew-Becker of the NBER demonstrate that the top 10%, particularly the top 1% of the US – the plutonomists in our parlance – have benefited disproportionately from the recent productivity surge in the US.”

A Google search for ‘Citigroup Plutonomy’ –‘Citigroup Plutonomy Rich Getting Richer’ and ‘Citigroup Plutonomy Rising Tide Lifting Yachts’ will find the reports if people are interested.

Tom, great post, my hates of to you

People should absolutely change union away from Siptu. Their General Secretary sits on the Board of Eriva, the parent company of Irish Water.
Siptu: the union arm of FG / LAB.

Jack is as bad as the rest of them on his fat cat salary.

A union head on a 6 figure salary?

No credibility whatsoever Jack!!

Join the Independent Workers Union.

Actually Joe O’Flynn the General Secretary of SIPTU sits on the board of Bord Gais, but thats still a problem.

I am actually just about to ring siptu to tell them to cancel my membership. Like labour they have forgotten who they are meant to represent and they feck off if they think they’re getting any more money off me

“Siptu: the union arm of FG / LAB.”
Correct.
Now let the truth out.!
as for:
“However, Agriculture Minister Simon Coveney told the same programme that there is no chance of Irish Water going anywhere.”
Now we see the arrogance of the Blueshirt/Fascist Brigade.
By God, Coveney would not dare address his farmer friends with such temerity.
If the people have to go to war with a FF/FG coalition after the next election (an almost certain outcome now that Sinn Fein have grown so strong) then our answer to Coveney and Rabbite, and the rest of the bloodsuckers is:
We the people are going nowhere-until this despised quango is abolished and a referendum is held to enshrine Irish water in public ownership and “no commoditization” by local authorities to boot.
If a FF/FG coalition are united, and determined to go to war against our communities all over Ireland,on this issue;then the people who have never used their democratic mandate (an incredible 50% of the population!) must present themselves at polling stations in numbers never seen before. This is a war between the Golden Circle of politicians and crony public sector unions;one one hand; against the common people of Ireland who are daily crucified to keep all of them in a lifestyle unknown to working class people.
Coveney has a flawed pedigree -too flawed to be wheeled out as a defender of iniquitous taxation of the poor. Perhaps if the great and good in Irish business and political life had not in previous decades hidden much of their wealth offshore in Ansbacher bank accounts we might have a proper water infrastructure today.
If Bart Ahern and his Soldiers of Destiny had spent less time, during their three terms in office acting as an ATM machine for public sector unions, and investing the money that flowed in, in necessary infrastructure we would not have hundreds of thousands of our citizens marching in th rain for a more just society.
This “Irish Water” quango has to a a political watershed (pardon the pun) in Irish society.We must now become more French than the French themselves, if that is what it takes to clean out the political Oligarchy and their crony unions.

Alan Kelly, “Irish Water has spent a lot of money setting up this company” Alan where did the money come from? The property tax, The NPRF. How much money has been wasted considering so many mistakes have been made, they must have been “expert” consultants!!

well said Sean!

Oh thank god someone else sees it. Im a union member but siptu are the biggest anti worker organisation in the country. They time and time again show contempt for their members. And let us not forget that its only since the setting up of siptu that almost all workers rights to strike have been made illegal. Now I don’t agree with walking out the door every time there’s a disagreement but workers should have the right to down tools when they need to.

Siptu did nothing but bend over and take it up the jacksy after 2008

Exactly. Another siptu conflict of interests.

I’m a firefighter, we tried to join another union and our employers simply refuse to talk to them. And siptu as the biggest union in the country should be the first ones to call for our union to be recognised but no quite the opposite.

Seriously? All the money went to the public sector unions? None went into bad banks or developers etc? Really? No wait your correct I’ve just looked out the window and seen loads of public sector workers cruising past in their 142 bentlys whilst eating babies and laughing at the rest of us. Cop on. Stop the this stupid them and us. The enemy is the government and irish water not normal people who provide our services.

is Alan Kelly l/b r f/g.

Have you any proof of that ?

It’s not a commodity it’s a resource………

But vested interests (possibly even in the government) would like it to become a commodity.

Right 2waters’s citizens initiative won a decision from the European commission stating, amongst other things, that arrangements for water are entirely in the hands of national government. This Government has chosen, repeat, chosen, to embark on a path which will inevitably lead to privatisation. See citizens’ iniatives.

Well hold a referendum to make sure once and for it is commoditised. If we dont pay iw now then it is still not yet a commodity. Once we start paying we lose that status of it being a resource. Thats more reason to keep paying for it through general taxation

Not commoditised

@brian boru

Judging by all the red thumbs your comment got, it looks like the mob doesn’t need proof. They’ve already formed an opinion without any proof whatsoever.

Check this out,,, http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-is-ttip-and-six-reasons-why-the-answer-should-scare-you-9779688.html and then comment

The ‘mob ‘? Are you baldy Noonan by any chance? You are displaying just the right attitude to the people who maintain you in luxury.

spot on stephen kelly, T.T.I.P. is the biggest threat to europe ,much bigger than ebola and isis, if ttip goes ahead governments will not have any control over supply, pricing , repairs to infrastructure or anything else, people will be forced to pay or do without, all in the name of corporate business, european politicians have already signed the people up to the plan, without consent or consultation AND ONCE IT IS ESTABLISHED IT WILL BE VERY HARD TO REMOVE ! another reason for us to consider moving away from the european union, single currency and control from the usa.

Thats downright scary. As if corporations dont have enough influence on our lives already

No to privatization.
No to commoditization.
End tax breaks on salaries invested in pension funds for the fattest cats in the country.
1 billion per annum lost to the state by subsidising pensions so vast, that they can never be spent in one lifetime.!

You are right Eric, and apropos the Citizens’ Initiative to Europe that I mentioned above, the EU Commission have REFUSED to entertain an initiative against TTIP

If what you say is correct, then we really need to rethink our continued membership of this evil EU dictatorship. When you look at the state of this country and the high unemployment, as well as the huge amount of emigration, what have we gained by membership. The UK are not stupid people and would have a lot more to lose if they left the EU, yet they are strongly thinking of leaving. If we left we might lose something, but then we could tell the bondholders where to go and keep our money which is leaking away, just like our water from the water pipes.

Who can blame them ?

John, they were right about the euro too…