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It's official - Greece has failed to pay for its loans with the IMF

The deadline of 11pm has been and gone.

Updated 23.20

GREECE HAS JUST officially missed a payment on its loans with the IMF. The deadline for the payment of €1.6 billion to be made was 11pm GMT. It passed without fanfare.

Greece is now on track to become the first country to default on a loan from the IMF since Zimbabwe in 2001.

What all this means for Greece’s debt situation, and whether or not it could cause an aftershock that sees the embattled country leave the euro, remains to be seen.

A statement just released by IMF communications director Gerry Rice states that “Greece is now in arrears”.

“I confirm that the (repayment) due by Greece to the IMF today has not been received. We have informed our Executive Board that Greece is now in arrears and can only receive IMF financing once the arrears are cleared,” he said.

At 10pm Jeroen Dijsselbloem, president of the eurogroup, had told CNN that “Greece will be in default tomorrow morning to the IMF”, unless it makes that €1.6 billion repayment within the hour.

Earlier today, Greece requested a two-year rescue plan from the European Union just hours before the bailout deal was due to expire.

In a statement, Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras’s office said: ”The Greek government today proposed a two-year agreement with the European Stability Mechanism (ESM) to fully cover its financing needs and the simultaneous restructuring of debt”.

It is not clear how the deal would fit in with Greece’s plan to hold a referendum on the existing demands from its creditors.

The request for a third bailout comes after earlier today Greece’s finance minister confirmed his government will miss the deadline for its next debt repayment.

When asked today if the country would make the €1.6 billion installment owing to the IMF, Yanis Varoufakis told reporters: “No”.

However German Chancellor Angela Merkel has reportedly said her country won’t consider a third bailout package before the referendum. European leaders have called an urgent meeting for later today after the latest development.

First IMF default since Zimbabwe

The Mediterranean nation is fast bearing down on becoming the first government to default on its IMF debts since Zimbabwe in 2001 as it waits for a Sunday referendum that will decide whether it accepts the latest bailout demands from the troika.

Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras, elected on an anti-austerity ticket in January, has urged fellow Greeks to reject the proposals, which include deeper cuts to the country’s pension system than his government was willing to stomach.

His administration has already made the drastic move of shutting banks and introducing credit controls to stem the flow of cash out of the country after the ECB closed the door on providing extra emergency funds.

(How) is it possible the creditors are waiting for the IMF payment while our banks are being suffocated?” Tsipras said in a late-evening interview on ERT television yesterday.

Greece Bailout AP Photo / Thanassis Stavrakis AP Photo / Thanassis Stavrakis / Thanassis Stavrakis

Missing the repayment won’t automatically put the country in default, rather it will be declared “in arrears” with its lender.

Within 30 days of the payment falling due, IMF managing director Christine Lagarde will have to formally notify the institution’s board – although a fund spokesman has said it would probably happen much faster than that.

Earlier this month Lagarde said there would be “no period of good grace” and yesterday she added the IMF couldn’t give Greece any more bailout money until the arrears had been paid.

A last-minute deal

An 11th-hour deal has reportedly been put back on the table ahead of the referendum with the European Commission the olive branch extending with an undisclosed solution.

“The door remains opened for a deal but time is running out quickly,” commission spokesman Margaritis Schinas told a news conference.

However Merkel told journalists earlier today she wasn’t aware of any new bailout deal being put forward.

The only thing I know is that the last offer I am aware of is the one from last Friday,” she said. “There is nothing more I can say.”

Germany Kosovo German Chancellor Angela Merkel AP Photo / Markus Schreiber AP Photo / Markus Schreiber / Markus Schreiber

Little help?

Meanwhile, a crowdfunding campaign aimed to help the beleaguered Greeks is coming up a little short of its stated target of €1.6 billion, a sum that would allow the Greeks pay the latest instalment of its €240 billion bailout back.

Despite attracting 7,244 funders in one day – and offering post cards of Tsipras – the fund has raised about €110,000 at last count.

Thousands took to Greece’s streets last night to support their government’s opposition to the latest debt deal after the clash with the country’s creditors brought the country’s financial systems close to collapse.

Greece Bailout AP Photo / Thanassis Stavrakis AP Photo / Thanassis Stavrakis / Thanassis Stavrakis

Talks collapse

The final point after five months of discussions between the Syriza government and the troika came when Tsipras announced the new bailout deal would be put to a referendum.

EU leaders including Germany’s Angela Merkel, France’s Francois Hollande and Italy’s Matteo Renzi, wrong-footed by Tspiras’s shock announcement of the vote over the weekend, warned it would effectively be a vote on Greece’s place in the euro.

An emotional European Commission head Jean Claude Juncker bitterly criticised Tsipras, saying he felt “betrayed” by the leftist Syriza government’s behaviour and adding it was time to tell voters “the truth”.

Greek debt crisis European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker with Tsipras Stefan Rousseau / PA Wire Stefan Rousseau / PA Wire / PA Wire

“A ‘No’ would mean, regardless of the question posed, that Greece had said no to Europe,” said Juncker, previously Tsipras’s closest — and sometimes only — ally in five months of debt talks.

But Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis hit back, telling British newspaper The Daily Telegraph Athens could seek legal action to stop the country being forced out of the eurozone.

With reporting from Paul Hosford, Cianan Brennan and AFP

First published 7.10am

Read: People are queuing for ATMs in Greece – but they can only get €60

Read: Kenny urges Greece to return to negotiations as Tsipras stands firm

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321 Comments
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    Mute Dermot Fennelly
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    Jun 30th 2015, 7:24 AM

    Putin standing in the shade waiting to pounce

    1053
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    Mute Stephen O'Sullivan
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    Jun 30th 2015, 7:38 AM

    ….Waiting to pounce on the crumbs that fall from Uncle Sam’s table? Vladimir would you like to sell your gas in Roubles, Euros or Dollars…? Dollars! Of course sir that will do nicely.

    320
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    Mute Anne Marie Devlin
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    Jun 30th 2015, 7:49 AM

    @Dermot. I’m just back from Russia and what I found interesting was the amount of Greek fruit on sale. It seems to be the only European country whose produce is no longer banned … . Russia are also keen to get their hands on some oil refineries near thesalonika.

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    Mute Robin Hilliard
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    Jun 30th 2015, 8:05 AM

    @Anne, Putin is simply doing all he can do these days – playing off one country against another for his own political ends.

    Each and every Russian would need to eat tonnes beyond measure of oranges, peaches, figs, grapes and olives in order to pay off the current Greek government debt. And they’re going to have a rotten hard time paying for it, given the drastic devaluation of the Russian Rouble over the last six months.

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    Mute Dermot Fennelly
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    Jun 30th 2015, 8:08 AM

    @ Robin ,who mentioned anything about paying off debt

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    Mute Robin Hilliard
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    Jun 30th 2015, 8:12 AM

    Well, yes, I suppose in all fairness Tsirpas does appear to think it’s ok to borrow money and not pay it back.

    Where I come from, that’s called theft.

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    Mute Coddler Rooney
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    Jun 30th 2015, 8:18 AM

    Robin,

    There was certainly a theft but it was from the Greek people. Like Ireland, much of Greek debt was imposed on the nation to cover the losses of financial speculation.

    “We should be clear: almost none of the huge amount of money loaned to Greece has actually gone there. It has gone to pay out private-sector creditors – including German and French banks. Greece has gotten but a pittance, but it has paid a high price to preserve these countries’ banking systems. The IMF and the other “official” creditors do not need the money that is being demanded. Under a business-as-usual scenario, the money received would most likely just be lent out again to Greece.”

    - Joseph Stiglitz, Nobel Prize winning economist.

    http://www.socialeurope.eu/2015/06/europes-attack-on-greek-democracy/

    497
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    Mute Avina Laaf
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    Jun 30th 2015, 8:22 AM

    Waffler, are you still struggling to find the connection between borrowing money and having to pay it back?

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    Mute Robin Hilliard
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    Jun 30th 2015, 8:24 AM

    I’m don’t think that widespread tax evasion, across-the-board tax relief to the religious, enormous pensions to virtually everybody, including anybody who retired early from its famously bloated civil service, not to mention fabricated statistics to the ECB, amounted to anybody’s “speculation” beyond the speculation of the Greek government and the people who elected them.

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    Mute jane
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    Jun 30th 2015, 8:48 AM

    Now Robin don’t be going on with all those facts. Facts don’t do well here.

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    Mute Coddler Rooney
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    Jun 30th 2015, 9:08 AM

    Tell it to the nobel prize winning economist Davina. I’m sure he’ll appreciate your insight.

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    Mute Coddler Rooney
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    Jun 30th 2015, 9:26 AM

    Robin,
    Most of the tax evasion you speak of was perpetrated under Greece’s right wing governments from the Metaxas dictatorship of the 70s to the neo liberals of the Samaras regime who facilitated vast wholesale tax evasion by the corporate oligarchy of shipping, energy, media etc. Ordinary Greeks have suffered the consequences of this for decades.

    This inherent dysfunction was compounded by entry into the Euro which placed a budget constraint on the nation which they did not have as a sovereign currency issuer.

    These 2 factors pushed the Greek economy over the cliff after the global financial crisis in 2008.
    In addition, much of Greece’s recent debt like Irelands was imposed on the nation to cover the losses of financial speculation as explained.

    In Syriza, the Greeks have at least a government which is attempting to defend the interests of the majority of Greek citizens instead of a capitalist elite. Unfortunately they are trapped in a currency union which is dominated by institutions like the ECB who viciously protect the interests of capital at the expense of the vast majority of people. Syriza and the Greek people cannot take them on from within the confines of the Euro so will ultimately have to leave or be crushed.

    Your preaching to the Greeks from the moral high ground is also very amusing. You might recall the Ansbacher debacle here in Ireland where entire layers of the financial and political elite evaded tax with the connivance of the commercial banks to name just one example. This is also the land where mobile phone licenses and water metering contracts can be obtained with the right connection and deep pockets to name another. We have seen senior civil servants and politicians retire in droves on munificent pensions since 2008 after presiding over the economic destruction of the nation.

    It may have slipped your mind also that the Irish state has facilitated the religious orders in their systemic abuse and rape of the children of the poor for generations. Tax relief to religious orders in Greece seems like a minor misdemeanor in comparison doesn’t it?

    Now Robin, does this vast legacy of corruption and outright evil under previous administrations justify imposing the enormous losses of speculative financial capitalism on the Irish people since 2008?

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Jun 30th 2015, 9:26 AM

    Note to self: Never lend money to Coddler Rooney.

    529
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    Mute Avina Laaf
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    Jun 30th 2015, 9:29 AM

    Tax evasion was across the board, from the street trader to the professional to the magnates Waffler. Very few Greeks can claim the high moral ground on the taxation front – they were almost all at it.

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Jun 30th 2015, 9:31 AM

    On the issue of tax evasion, Greece collects less tax revenue than Ireland despite having nearly triple our population. Although I disagree with the Euros handling of this situation and the entire 2008 crash, I do believe the money has to be paid back, otherwise we are going to pick up another cheque.

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    Mute Avina Laaf
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    Jun 30th 2015, 9:31 AM

    According to yesterday’s thread Aaron, as soon as you lend it to him it becomes “illegitimate odious debt”.

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Jun 30th 2015, 9:34 AM

    Avina, I am not surprised. Sure the guy has an Austi austerity Alliance profile picture. “GIVE US YOUR MONEY, WE NEED HELP……..sorry what’s that about paying back? oh no no no, that’s not going to happen” Leftist Lunatics.

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Jun 30th 2015, 9:35 AM

    *Anti, damn autocorrect.

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    Mute Avina Laaf
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    Jun 30th 2015, 9:37 AM

    Not to mention the fact that many of the people Greece now owes money to are worse off in terms of income, pensions etc..

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    Mute Tom Kelly
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    Jun 30th 2015, 9:38 AM

    AAA, well done. Its always someone elses fault.

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Jun 30th 2015, 9:38 AM

    “When we have to make a decision that will impact every man, children and women for years. We will just shirk the responsibility to the angry people who are very clearly going to be tunnel visioned, with a very clear outcome and claim that it’s true democracy!…..give us more money” Hoozah for the left!

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    Mute Randle P McMurphy
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    Jun 30th 2015, 10:10 AM

    Robin…are you ‘from’ under a rock? Govts worldwide do exactly what you call ‘theft’ daily…banks have done it for years. In Ireland, builders did it, landlords did it, welfare recipients did it, again, banks did it…in fact almost every business in the world that collects VAT on behalf of their Govt do it… and all without sanction! Your worldly naivety is showing Mr Hilliard.

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    Mute John Sheehy
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    Jun 30th 2015, 10:22 AM

    Sorry but that is nonsense.
    The debt wasn’t imposed, it was given to stop the country from going completely bankrupt, as they could no longer borrow from the usual markets.

    The Greek government had a deficit of 450m Euros to fund public sector wages and pensions.
    Almost half the debt was written off by creditors, a far more generous deal than either Ireland, Spain or Portugal received.

    The EU has bent over backwards to help Greece and in return they have not implemented any of the promised reforms.
    India, Brazil and China are said to be furious at the special treatment being given to the Greeks.
    Most non-EU countries are not supportive at all.

    224
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    Mute Anne Marie Devlin
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    Jun 30th 2015, 10:37 AM

    @robin. I know that and trade in cherries won’t get the economy moving quickly. Also Russia produces it’s own feta type cheese – brynza. However, trade deals are in place and the big picture is oil.

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Jun 30th 2015, 10:43 AM

    Oh but John according to the left the debt should just be written off as its unfair on the Greek people and their heroic Syriza party. It’s like an employee who wants to be paid more and more but at the same time refusing to do any small bit of work because “we have suffered enough”.

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    Mute Avina Laaf
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    Jun 30th 2015, 10:46 AM

    Add Randle to the list of people not to lend money to.

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    Mute Coddler Rooney
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    Jun 30th 2015, 10:52 AM

    Nonsense John Sheehy,
    The EU has most certainly not “bent over backwards to help Greece”

    Precisely the opposite in fact. As Mr. Stiglitz explains below, what the EU/IMF have done is to protect the banks of the core nations while deliberately sabotaging the Greek economy.

    “The rising crescendo of bickering and acrimony within Europe might seem to outsiders to be the inevitable result of the bitter endgame playing out between Greece and its creditors. In fact, European leaders are finally beginning to reveal the true nature of the ongoing debt dispute, and the answer is not pleasant: it is about power and democracy much more than money and economics.

    Of course, the economics behind the program that the “troika” (the European Commission, the European Central Bank, and the International Monetary Fund) foisted on Greece five years ago has been abysmal, resulting in a 25% decline in the country’s GDP. I can think of no depression, ever, that has been so deliberate and had such catastrophic consequences: Greece’s rate of youth unemployment, for example, now exceeds 60%..

    It is startling that the troika has refused to accept responsibility for any of this or admit how bad its forecasts and models have been. But what is even more surprising is that Europe’s leaders have not even learned. The troika is still demanding that Greece achieve a primary budget surplus (excluding interest payments) of 3.5% of GDP by 2018.

    Economists around the world have condemned that target as punitive, because aiming for it will inevitably result in a deeper downturn. Indeed, even if Greece’s debt is restructured beyond anything imaginable, the country will remain in depression if voters there commit to the troika’s target in the snap referendum to be held this weekend.”

    http://www.socialeurope.eu/2015/06/europes-attack-on-greek-democracy/

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    Mute Coddler Rooney
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    Jun 30th 2015, 10:56 AM

    Attention drooling neo liberals Davina, Aaron and Tom.

    What you fail to understand is that the ECB is the monopoly issuer of the Euro and creates at will the money which is being extracted with menaces from the Greek people and which is decimating their economy and society.

    If the ECB wants to pay the gambling debts of their capitalist elite, let them press the keys on their shiny computer in Frankfurt and stop looting the Greek, Spanish, Portuguese and Irish people.

    123
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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Jun 30th 2015, 11:01 AM

    Avina, the list seems to be ever growing at this stage.

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    Mute Avina Laaf
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    Jun 30th 2015, 11:06 AM

    “Drooling neo-liberals” Get a grip man.

    What you are STILL failing to realise is that keystroking money into existence to wipe out Greek debt devalues the euro, effectively meaning that everyone pays anyway.

    185
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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Jun 30th 2015, 11:08 AM

    Greece accepted a bailout, which was offered not imposed. Greece accepted as they knew they would surely default without it. The Greeks finally had a primary surplus in the months coming up to the election and lunatic lefts destroyed the surplus and sent them into a recession far worse than before, that is fact. Syriza agreed to collect taxes from the third of their population that are avoiding it, they failed and its arguably worse now but of course people like you probably think taxes are a crime and are oppression by the “capitalist elite” They have done nothing to improve the economy but yet you blame it on the institutions that gave Greece the money to avoid an initial default, now these people want Greece to implement measures to pay back the money to ensure the rest of Europe doesn’t end up paying it back through their citizens pockets and you call them the oppressors? When you get a loan from a bank or anyone do you pay it back? Or are you just like Syriza, a parasite?

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Jun 30th 2015, 11:10 AM

    You cannot just keystroke money into an economy. It will destroy the currency, how do you not understand?

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Jun 30th 2015, 11:24 AM

    Also, Coddler, one award winning economist does not represent a common opinion amongst all economists, including the award winning ones.

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    Mute Coddler Rooney
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    Jun 30th 2015, 11:42 AM

    Macroeconomic nonsense Davina and Alan.

    The Eurozone is a huge economic entity with an excess of productive output available for purchase. This allows the ECB to create a vast amount of new Euro without any significant inflationary effects and so maintain price stability.

    We have a very recent example right next door. The Bank of England simply keystroked £850 billion into existence to cover the cost of their bank bailout and they did so without any significant inflation in sterling.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/163850bn-official-cost-of-the-bank-bailout-1833830.html

    There is more than enough monetary headroom in the Eurozone to write down Greek, Irish, Portuguese, Spanish etc debt to sustainable levels. The moral case for doing so is even stronger.
    The money has in fact already been created and circulated through the Eurozone when the loans were first made. Where is the inflation?

    Writing down Greek, Irish debt etc would simply be a matter of not retiring the money which already exists and which has had no inflationary effects. It is simply a matter of accounting via computer keystrokes to reduce the debts of the peripheral nation economies to sustainable levels.
    The only thing preventing this is the poisonous neo liberal ideology which dominates the EU.

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Jun 30th 2015, 11:51 AM

    In 2008, when the collapse happened euro inflation sky rocketed after the money was created to bailout the banks. A simple Google search of “EU inflation graph” will tell you that.

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Jun 30th 2015, 11:56 AM

    As I’ve said many times before, I don’t agree with the way the Greek situation has been handled, but the money has to be repayed, that’s common sense. The problem I have lies with Syriza and their cowardness shirking such an important decision onto angry people to avoid being blamed. True democracy apparently.

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    Mute Supernova
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    Jun 30th 2015, 12:44 PM

    They should ask DOB for a 1.6 b loan. #1.25%

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    Mute Thomas Aquinas
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    Jun 30th 2015, 12:45 PM

    you believe in accounting fraud coddler… that is all… and funny how you love the Maoist rhetoric of drooling [imagined term of abuse][actual badge of pride]. the only good socialist is a dead socialist.

    60
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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Jun 30th 2015, 12:58 PM

    He makes up nonsense while he types and claims it as fact, its the same comment over and over, slightly reworded, this same nonsense is then so easily disproved through a simple Google search.

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    Mute Paul Lanigan
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    Jun 30th 2015, 1:00 PM

    so Coddler – how much have you contributed to the crowd funded plan to help Greece? or are you just another whinger on the sidelines

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Jun 30th 2015, 1:02 PM

    He reminds me of that hippy liberal girl meme. “Protests against the 1%…..except for Steve Jobs, Michael Moore and Russell Brand” I can guarantee one of his promises if ever running for election would be to wipe out taxes or leave the EU, because “its oppression by the capitalist elite maaaaaaaaaann”

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    Mute Kieran Doy
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    Jun 30th 2015, 1:04 PM

    Coddler there was a vote on The Journal for you to STFU! Now I hope you respect the democratic will of the posters on the Journal

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    Mute Paul Lanigan
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    Jun 30th 2015, 1:12 PM

    tax evasion isn’t a left wing right wing thing. I know that doesn’t suit your world view. corruption exists when there an absence of oversight/loose controls. think about the corruption that exists in many left wing states. no different

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Jun 30th 2015, 1:27 PM

    For example: Syriza in Greece, fine example of left corruption and tax evasion being rampant. Yes I know Coddly before you spout the same learned off comment, tax evasion was present before Syriza took power, but Syriza did nothing to stifle it.

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    Mute Coddler Rooney
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    Jun 30th 2015, 1:46 PM

    Aaron,
    You claim that the uptick in inflation in Eurozone in 2008 was caused by the Euros created to bailout the banks. There is no such cause and effect relationship. The inflation spike was due to rising commodity prices, particularly oil, and precisely nothing to do with the bank bailout.

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5b524c9e-4688-11dd-876a-0000779fd2ac.html#axzz3eY2J9b42

    Now stop spoofing like a good lad.

    Greece’s debt is unsustainable because it is denominated in what is effectively a foreign currency, the euro. A sovereign currency issuing state (e.g. Sweden, U.K, New Zealand) can sustain ANY size of debt once it is denominated in the domestic currency as the debt and any interest is paid via simple keystrokes at the central bank.

    It’s an economic fact that a sovereign currency issuing state can never be forced to default on its own currency denominated debt. But don’t take my word for it:

    “The United States can pay any debt it has because we can always print money to do that. So there is zero probability of default.” Alan Greenspan

    “In the case of United States, default is absolutely impossible. All U.S. government debt is denominated in U.S. dollar assets.” Peter Zeihan, Vice President of Analysis forSTRATFOR

    “In the case of governments boasting monetary sovereignty and debt denominated in its own currency, like the United States (but also Japan and the UK), it is technically impossible to fall into debt default.” Erwan Mahe, European asset allocation and options strategies adviser

    “There is never a risk of default for a sovereign nation that issues its own free-floating currency and where its debts are denominated in that currency.” Mike Norman, Chief Economist for John Thomas Financial

    “There is no inherent limit on federal expenses and therefore on federal spending…When the U.S. government decides to spend fiat money, it adds to its banking reserve system and when it taxes or borrows (issues Treasury securities) it drains reserves from its banking system. These reserve operations are done solely to maintain the target Federal Funds rate.” Monty Agarwal , managing partner and chief investment officer of MA Managed Futures Fund

    “As the sole manufacturer of dollars, whose debt is denominated in dollars, the U.S. government can never become insolvent, i.e., unable to pay its bills. In this sense, the government is not dependent on credit markets to remain operational.” Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

    “A sovereign government can always make payments as they come due by crediting bank accounts — something recognized by Chairman Ben Bernanke when he said the Fed spends by marking up the size of the reserve accounts of banks.” L. Randall Wray, Professor of Economics at the University of Missouri-Kansas City and a Senior Scholar at the Levy Economics Institute

    The ECB also has the power to write down Greek, Irish, Spanish and Portuguese debt with no impact to inflation as explained. It refuses to do this under its neo liberal ideology which serves the interest of private capital over the welfare of the majority. The ECB is waging an economic and ideological war on the Greek people.

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    Mute Bobby Phelan
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    Jun 30th 2015, 1:53 PM

    http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/ireland fg says were turning a corner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Mute Darren Norris
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    Jun 30th 2015, 2:13 PM

    Coddler

    your on overtime today i see.

    Your idol – Joseph Stiglitz – worked during the Clinton years and due to their insane spending program they pushed the nation into massive debt, the debt we see today in the sub prime that aided the EU debt crisis

    Greece need massive reform asap, lefties are destroying it

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    Mute Protect Democracy!
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    Jun 30th 2015, 2:16 PM

    Putin is welcome to Greece, they’ll be among their own !

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    Mute Bobby Phelan
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    Jun 30th 2015, 2:27 PM

    Russia is booming robin your living in la la land.

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    Mute Ray Farrelly
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    Jun 30th 2015, 2:32 PM

    67 billion of irish money now that is what I would call theft

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    Mute Coddler Rooney
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    Jun 30th 2015, 2:40 PM

    Darren,

    Stiglitz is not my idol but in contrast to neoliberal economic illiterates on here he understands that austerity is counter productive during a recession and cutting government spending and increasing taxation can only lengthen and deepen the recession as explained in Keynes’s “paradox of thrift” 70+ years ago.

    It appears who also missed 7 quoted economists above explaining that U.S. government can sustain any size of debt once it is denominated in dollars. The “debt” and any interest due is paid with a casual wag of a finger on a computer keyboard.

    Take a leaf from your brother Chuck and try not to be such a numpty.

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    Mute EC P Ford
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    Jun 30th 2015, 2:44 PM

    Love the left wing jargon let someone else pay

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    Mute Coddler Rooney
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    Jun 30th 2015, 2:46 PM

    Still looking on the bright side, the IMF have generously extended the repayment deadline for Greece.

    ‘Leap second’ added for first time in three years”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-33313347

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    Mute Protect Democracy!
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    Jun 30th 2015, 2:56 PM

    When Syriza tool over, Greece had a surplus of 3% of GDP & a growth rate of 3%. Both have declined through Syrizas bad management & trickery with Europe. How can European taxpayers be expected to bail out a country who spends 40% of their budget on welfare? What is the point of of trying to support a country where 30% of it’s gross domestic product is on the black economy? The productivity of the 1 million public servants is a joke compared to the rest of Europe. Syriza (& their irish apologists ) should start telling the public the truth instead of promising the undeliverable before they seek help from anyone,

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    Mute Je Suis Rep of Eire
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    Jun 30th 2015, 3:33 PM

    Waddler you should get your lot onto nationalising Greece like you’s wanted to with Dell

    Oh wait .. That bizarre folly didn’t happen

    Ah well carry on with your copy cut and paste trying to protect your 1% vote

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    Mute Martin Gallagher
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    Jun 30th 2015, 3:36 PM

    So why blame the current Syriza Govt. in Greece and not the previous one (who bought elections there by promising the moon on a stick?)
    As we’re on the subject, what about the European banks and their so called financial ‘wizz kid’ experts who lent all that money so recklessly in the first place? So much for the expertise of those guys, I think.
    Same thing goes for the lofty standards concerning the Institute of Chartered accountants and auditors regarding Anglo Irish Bank?

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    Mute Martin Gallagher
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    Jun 30th 2015, 3:47 PM

    Yeah and you could add in the amount of money borrowed by the previous Greek govt. to buy weapons and bribery from German/French arms industry, that it didn’t need in the first place!
    The present Govt. in Greece need some breathing space to sort out the mess they inherited from the previous one, I think?

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Jun 30th 2015, 4:14 PM

    Coddler, you led me to an article which I must pay to view? Hardly a reputable source if I can’t see it. Greece’s debt is unsustainable simply because they nearly 0 form of national income and collect less tax than a nation with 3 times less their population. That should be easy enough to understand. What your suggesting is what’s known as quantitave easing, easing the national debt by essentially injecting more money from thin air into the economy and in economics is not considered a good move as it can seriously devalue a nations currency. This was done as the economic crash begin to spiral from the PIGS of Europe to mainland Europe and was a factor contributing to such a peak in inflation. Europe needs a fiscal union to compliment its Monetary union to manage reckless spending from states such as Greece.

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Jun 30th 2015, 4:17 PM

    http://www.ecrresearch.com/world-economy/dangers-and-drawbacks-quantitative-easing Here this should explain why quantitave easing should not be taken as lightly as you suggest.

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Jun 30th 2015, 4:22 PM

    OK, I must correct myself, I was wrong about the quantitave easing in 2008, read an article which blended US easing with EU emergency policy and got a bit lost. Apologies. However my point still stands on why we can’t just ease away the debt.

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    Mute Rashers Tierney
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    Jun 30th 2015, 4:23 PM

    Same spiel from about four different identities “Jane” – give it a rest.

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    Mute Coddler Rooney
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    Jun 30th 2015, 4:45 PM

    Aaron,
    The link is to the Financial Times. Is that reputable enough for you?

    And you don’t have to pay to see the article as I didn’t. You can sign up for 10 articles a month for free or something like that.

    Here is the relevant content anyway for your reference:
    ”Inflation today is due to the explosion in commodity prices. You cannot tell me that in order to fight against inflation you must raise interest rates……………………….. His comments came as oil prices hit a fresh record of $143.67 a barrel and commodities recorded their largest first-half-of-the-year price jump for at least half a century.”

    Your point doesn’t stand Aaron. There is no inflationary risk in the Eurozone writing down Greek debt to sustainable levels as I’ve explained. The money has already been created and circulated into the Eurozone with no significant inflation. It’s a trivial matter of accounting for the ECB to quash the debt. Ditto for Ireland, Spain, Portugal etc. debts. And the moral case for writing down odious and illegitimate debt is even stronger than the overwhelming economic one.

    What you should be asking yourself is why your understanding of macroeconomics is so badly wrong and who might benefit from keeping yourself and the majority of the population in the dark on such matters.

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    Mute Avina Laaf
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    Jun 30th 2015, 4:49 PM

    FFS codder / waffler – what is it going to take to get into your thick skull??

    Nobody is disputing the fact that any currency issuing state can pay all its debts by just keystroking money into existence. The kicker though (which you seem to be point blank incapable of grasping) is that doing so instantly causes inflationary and devaluation pressures. This is basic economics!!

    Countries are constantly doing this in a modest, manageable and sustainable way, but there are limits to what you can do without destroying your currency and economy. As soon as you start ‘printing money’ to excess you’re on the slippery slope to economic ruin.

    What don’t you get about that? Why don’t you ask your nobel prize winning economist for his views on it?

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    Mute jane
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    Jun 30th 2015, 4:58 PM

    Eh Rasher you’re quite mistaken there. I have my own ideas about Greece etc but I’d be the first to put my hand up and say I don’t know enough about the facts and figures to involved myself in this debate.

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    Mute Avina Laaf
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    Jun 30th 2015, 5:04 PM

    Oh I get it codder / waffler – you think you’re privvy to some special knowledge or insight into macroeconomics that ‘they’ don’t want the rest of us to know about….

    Well let me tell you, its not that ‘they’ don’t teach your theories because ‘they’ want to keep it a closely guarded secret. ‘They’ don’t each it because its complete pseudo-economic nonsensical claptrap that exists only in the mind of a few ignorati like yourself.

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    Mute Coddler Rooney
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    Jun 30th 2015, 5:38 PM

    Davina,

    It’s been explained to you dozens of times now that there is no inflation risk if there is sufficient goods and services available for purchase with the new money created.

    Since the 1980s, the global money supply has increased almost exponentially as the deregulated commercial banks massively increased their loan books (The money is uncreated as the loans are repaid but at a much slower pace). Where is the hyperinflation that monetarists screech about?

    The modern economy is characterized by an excess of production so there are rarely any shortages of goods & service available for purchase and so significant general inflation is not a concern.

    Neither is there a direct relationship between monetary expansion and foreign exchange devaluation. There are in fact no models which can accurately predict Fx movements such is the number and complexity of interrelated variables involved.

    You can see this clearly where sterling has gained very strongly against the Euro despite the fact that the U.K. has engaged in much larger monetary expansion under its QE programs since 2009 than the Eurozone has implemented.

    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jan/22/quantitative-easing-around-the-world-lessons-from-japan-uk-and-us

    The U.S has implemented an even larger QE program and has added $3.5 trillion to its balance sheet since 2009.

    http://www.bloombergview.com/quicktake/federal-reserve-quantitative-easing-tape

    and again, despite this massive dollar expansion, the dollar gains in value against the Euro.
    If you can point to any analysis which shows a direct relationship between monetary expansion and Fx devaluation, please do so.

    Now get back in your litter box like a good little girl.

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    Mute Michael Carty
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    Jun 30th 2015, 5:39 PM

    Coddler. You have no idea how the world works. You buy a pension from a private bank. The bank invests this money in different products, some of which is government debt. If this debt isn’t paid back, it’s investors and or pensioners who often ultimately don’t get paid.

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    Mute Michael Carty
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    Jun 30th 2015, 5:41 PM

    Coddler. You seem like a genius. May I ask what you work at?

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    Mute Mal
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    Jun 30th 2015, 5:53 PM
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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Jun 30th 2015, 5:53 PM

    Coddler, I must pay 1.99 for a free trial to view any, quantatitve easing yes can ease a debt quickly but causes inflation and the devaluation of a currency, not only that but if there is easing done to write off Greece’s loans, Greece with suffer in the long run from lenders who do not trust to lend to them anymore since they clearly cannot pay off a loan without aid. Read the Article I sent you if you sti find yoursf in denial, you don’t seem to know the basics of economics.

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    Mute Freebetcitydcom Mike
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    Jun 30th 2015, 5:54 PM

    The green and red thumbs are being gamed on this thread..

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    Mute Avina Laaf
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    Jun 30th 2015, 6:15 PM

    Codder, you could just try googling “exchange rates vs quantitative easing”, but I’m sure you’ll just dismiss every article that comes up as being either part of the conspiracy or written by economists who don’t know what they’re talking about in the way you (think you) do.

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    Mute Brian McGrady
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    Jun 30th 2015, 6:25 PM

    avian, I worked there previously and the regular people (that I worked with) did not tax evade and business had a ton of red tape to fill in daily for tax reasons. I’d like to hear your experiences from Greece to back up this allegation that ‘everyone’ was at it!

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    Mute Joseph Siddall
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    Jun 30th 2015, 6:52 PM

    Robin, or, in the big league….Bamkruptcy. Something of a fine art with some Irish nationals, I believe.

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    Mute Avina Laaf
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    Jun 30th 2015, 7:04 PM

    Brian, at its height in 2005, 49% of the Greek population were involved in tax evasion. The majority of these were self employed and from all walks of life.
    By ‘everyone’ I wasn’t referring to each and every individual, but to every class of people from street traders to shipping magnates.
    http://www.ethnos.gr/article.asp?catid=22770&subid=2&pubid=29345

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    Mute Coddler Rooney
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    Jun 30th 2015, 7:11 PM

    Michael,

    I’m no genius and what I work at is irrelevant. What I have done is to inform myself as to realities of the monetary system and the macro economy as opposed to the self serving neo liberal propaganda we’ve been fed for 40+ years.

    Here’s Professor Bill Black who made a recent appearance at the banking enquiry explaining the same concepts in Kilkenny a couple of years ago.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8E0U2rwFjw

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    Mute Monty Wuggy
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    Jun 30th 2015, 7:29 PM

    Thanks for your contributions Coddler. What I find amusing is those pontificating about your analysis are regurgitating the propagandistic claim that Greece have caused this crisis which of course is antithetical to reality.

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    Mute Avina Laaf
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    Jun 30th 2015, 7:58 PM

    Monty, as I said on another thread, there’s no doubt that Greece’s creditors haven’t shown much flexibility in this and must shoulder some responsibility for the current crisis.
    To try and suggest that the Greeks are somehow innocent victims in all this is laughable though, and completely disregards the facts.
    Its undeniable that successive Greek governments and their years of recklessly irresponsible fiscal policies have voluntarily led the country to the top of a cliff, albeit that its the EU/IMF and Syriza that are now slugging it out on the very brink.
    When you borrow too much money for too many years its inevitable that it’ll come back to bite you at some point.

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    Mute Monty Wuggy
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    Jun 30th 2015, 8:10 PM

    Avina: I never said the predecessors to Syriza weren’t culpable, of course they were. They were directly complicit in it. But the fundamental problem is bad EU economic policy, it’s not just Greece suffering you know, it’s just that’s it’s accentuated in Greece.
    Even internal documents from Troika acknowledge the debt is unsustainable and that debt relief is a policy that should be pursued.

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    Mute Kenny McElroy
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    Jun 30th 2015, 9:28 PM

    you lend for money is called risk with risk comes lose greedy little bankers caught .

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    Mute Gus Sheridan
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    Jun 30th 2015, 9:35 PM

    Did Merkel not think Putin wouldn’t be in the equation? A masterstroke by Greece!

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    Mute Turlough O' Connor
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    Jun 30th 2015, 11:02 PM

    @avina…so the other 51% will have to suffer?.. And while we’re at it don’t you think it was encumbant of the govt of the day to enforce strict rax laws.. Why blame the people?
    Simple question.. If you knew you could get away with paying very little tax..would you avail of it?

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Jun 30th 2015, 11:25 PM

    Turlough, it isn’t getting away with paying very little tax, it is blatant tax evasion. The country with near 3 times our population takes in less tax revenue than us.
    The country has nearly no national income being generated from taxes. It also spends around 30% of its budget on social welfare. If Greeces budget was restructured at the beginning of the crash and the promises of Syriza to fix the tax issue (Never even tried) happened, the situation wouldn’t be as bad as it is now.
    This is the fault of previous corrupt governments and no solution has been used to fix this mess by the current Syriza government, they are just as bad.
    I think you are misunderstanding what Avina is trying to say, he isn’t blaming the people. Neither am I in this comment, it is understood that it was the previous and current governments fault along with the EU, IMF and ECB who turned what could have been a minor bump into an International crisis. Every party in this situation is to blame.

    The debt needs to be restructured.

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    Mute Monty Wuggy
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    Jun 30th 2015, 11:37 PM

    I’m sorry, Aaron but you seriously can’t expect reasonable people to indulge this ludicrous theory that Syriza are in someway responsible for this crisis.

    They are doing everything to try and rectify the mess the EU and neoliberal governments created. Syria have a mandate from the Greek electorate to reject austerity, if they acceded to the EU’s demands they would be betraying their commitments to the Greek people. We know from internal Troika documents that debt relief is the policy most conducive to relieving the crisis, and that is what Syriza are insisting must happen.

    What exactly do you want Syriza to do? Perpetuate unsustainable debt and exacerbate the suffering of the Greek people?

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    Mute Charlie Mountney
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    Jun 30th 2015, 11:39 PM

    Coddler, you are a breath of fresh air in this comments section which for the most part seems to be made up of the male, pale and stale in a similar fashion to the Dail. I thank you for your contributions. Your input and that of a few others like you are what keeps me scrolling down the comments. Please keep them coming.

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    Mute Dog Standard
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    Jul 1st 2015, 12:04 AM

    So much text and opinion from people who have no actual clue what is happening. Bet you guys all think you’re real smart. You’re not, you should stop wasting your time and start writing fiction or eating rich tea.

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Jul 1st 2015, 12:23 AM

    They aren’t responsible for the crisis. Previous corrupt governments and the mishandling by the troika are to blame for the crisis. Mandate is the key word here, I put Syriza involment in this crisis mainly at their mandate; their complete refusal and opposition to austerity measures, which, they chose to propose prior to elections. Syriza chose this mandate knowing fully well that it was economical suicide, so I feel no sympathy for Syriza. Syriza made ludacris promises on rejection of austerity to its people and that is undeniable. You cannot fully reject austerity in times of serious financial woes. I dislike them as they are simply shirking their responsibility as leaders to angry, tunnel visioned people, knowing fully well what the outcome of that vote will be so that they can blame the people for the outcome. As I said the Greek budget should have been restructured at the beginning of the crisis. 30% on social welfare…. I blame the troika for attempting to push in some cases crazy austerity measures onto a nation that regardless of these measures would still not be able to make the repayments now as it is simply unsustainable as you said. I personally would support debt relief based on a moral standing as its simply not realistic to expect Greece to meet these repayments regardless of austerity measures. However if debt relief is granted, then the other eurozone countries will have to pick up the cheque, including Ireland and EU leaders will not let that happen. I stand with the Greek people, but not Syriza. I believe what the troika are doing is wrong but I do not want my country and others picking up the cheque. I believe the best solution is a debt restructuring.

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Jul 1st 2015, 12:26 AM

    Why doesn’t paragraphing work on the journals app? :(

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Jul 1st 2015, 12:29 AM

    I phrased my comment wrong and made it seem like I blame Syriza for the current crisis, I’m tired. I don’t blame them for the Greek crisis, however I do blame them for their role in mishandling it, however they are not the cause of it.

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    Mute Liam Treacy
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    Jul 1st 2015, 4:56 AM

    Coddler you’ve started to omit one of the planks of your thesis ” money is created with keyboard strokes”. Is that how you pay your bills?

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    Mute Liam Treacy
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    Jul 1st 2015, 5:11 AM

    Coddler what exactly is “private capital” ? It’s my and your pension funds, insurance funds, savings and investment funds. I want mine back not burned and I want the ECB to protect it. Printing money devalues a currency. Britain and the US did it in 2009 and the currencies tanked, exports shot up and the economies recovered. They’ve burnt that bridge. The ECB started last year, Euro declines, imports drop exports cheaper. It’s a zero sum game that eventually has to stop so growth catches up.

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    Mute Patrick Mcauliffe
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    Jul 1st 2015, 7:44 AM

    This Greek government had no notion of paying. Now an alliance with Russia, just what they want, I can see violence down the road, worrying times for Greece…what about our lefties who agree with the Greek government? ?
    …enough said

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    Mute Avina Laaf
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    Jul 1st 2015, 9:36 AM

    Turlough, I’m not saying that individual Greek people are to blame, but its undeniable that successive Greek governments elected by the Greek people are to blame for putting Greece in such a vulnerable position in the first place.
    And lets not forget that it wasn’t only the 49% to benefit from the nod-and-wink politics – many of the other 51% had cushy public sector jobs, bloated pensions, public services way above what they were actually paying for etc..

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    Mute Richard Curtis
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    Jul 1st 2015, 10:15 AM

    Coddler I would hate to be your banker. A lecture with every arrears mortgage repayment

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    Mute David Doyle
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    Jun 30th 2015, 7:13 AM

    A good start for them would be ousting their Sinn Fein-esque Syriza Government and installing people who actually know what they’re doing.

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    Mute John Strahan
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    Jun 30th 2015, 7:20 AM

    Because their previous administrations were so good?

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    Mute Richie Bolger
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    Jun 30th 2015, 7:23 AM

    give it a rest david

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    Mute David Doyle
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    Jun 30th 2015, 7:26 AM

    I don’t think I suggested restoring their previous Governments? That said, Syriza are the first Government to have OAP’s queuing outside banks for their pensions and limits on withdrawals.

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    Mute John Strahan
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    Jun 30th 2015, 7:30 AM

    Greece has a pool of politicians, the same as everywhere else, so what are you suggesting? Removing Democratic process and installing an unelected elite?

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    Mute David Doyle
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    Jun 30th 2015, 7:36 AM

    No. I’m suggesting exercising Democratic principles; recognising they’ve elected a bunch of clowns, compel them to resign, hold fresh elections and put serious people into Government buildings instead of people who really should be wearing big red noses, oversized shoes and have flowers in their lapels that squirt water.

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    Mute John Strahan
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    Jun 30th 2015, 7:39 AM

    But those will be the same people that have put Greece in the position they’re in! Do you think they can just go out and find talented politicians at the drop of a hat? They very obviously can’t.

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    Mute Ray Farrelly
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    Jun 30th 2015, 7:41 AM

    David you just summed up the irish government.

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    Mute David Doyle
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    Jun 30th 2015, 7:43 AM

    Don’t think so, Ray. Fastest growing economy in Europe and huge growth in employment proves otherwise.

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    Mute John Strahan
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    Jun 30th 2015, 7:51 AM

    With research showing a steady decline in wage rates throughout the entire term of this government.

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    Mute Ray Farrelly
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    Jun 30th 2015, 7:58 AM

    What’s the unemployment figure’s david

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    Mute David Doyle
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    Jun 30th 2015, 8:02 AM

    9.8% Ray. Below the EU average and down from 15%.

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    Mute Ray Farrelly
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    Jun 30th 2015, 8:29 AM

    And how many are real jobs david not jobsbridge and c.e. scheme’s work for nothing and you will never be idle.

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    Mute David Doyle
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    Jun 30th 2015, 8:40 AM

    Ray- At any one time, up to 8,500 people are employed on job bridge schemes. Over 110,000 new jobs were created in the lifetime of this Government. So your point is?

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    Mute Ray Farrelly
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    Jun 30th 2015, 8:52 AM

    David how many are on c.e. scheme’s

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Jun 30th 2015, 9:47 AM

    David Doyle, you got 43 downvotes for stating common facts? People really don’t like hearing the truth here, especially when it paints a positive picture of our economy.

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    Mute Randle P McMurphy
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    Jun 30th 2015, 9:52 AM

    That’s EXACTLY what the EU/IMF suggested last week John…as part of the ‘deal’, Greek Govt were to re-coalesce with more right wing MP’s to give ‘confidence’ to the EU decision table. Same as they did in Italy if you recall…

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    Mute Randle P McMurphy
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    Jun 30th 2015, 9:54 AM

    Doyler….spin bs spin bs spin bs….1% growth…jobsbridge…0 hrs contracts….spin horse shït spin

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    Mute Randle P McMurphy
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    Jun 30th 2015, 9:59 AM

    Aaron. 44… For stating as fact, a load of tripe, spin and bułłshît…

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    Mute Dave Meagher
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    Jun 30th 2015, 10:02 AM

    Exactly to trust those who got you in to mess in the first place is the utter definition of stupidity, FG FF are two cheeks on the same ass.
    I’m not a SF supporter but seriously how the hell can they do any worse , the other shower already bankrupted the place and the current shower has us all under an avalanche of debt.

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    Mute Ray Farrelly
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    Jun 30th 2015, 10:05 AM

    Aaron perhaps you can answer what david could not how many people are on c.e. scheme’s

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    Mute Noreen Lunney
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    Jun 30th 2015, 10:24 AM

    at this stage the greek people are going to be starved or say yes to the bail out. thats what kind of democracy david wants, that use to be called a dictatorship but its funny how people can be dragged along into a way of thinking by the media looks like the media have convinced a lot. that we owed the debt that was created by ff and sealed into a sovereign debt by fg. they harp on look at us we pay look at us we are not like greece like it is something to be proud of. anyone i know are happy to pay their own mortgage but resent paying this debt that has been thrust upon us by the current government. i have notice a lot of people have been using language like looney, hard and extreme left yet think that anyone who is up germanys arse is quite legitimate. how a government that has been in power less than seven monthes can be blamed . no greece has had on going problems from 2008.this new government have followed true on their mandate and a lot of people seem to be disgruntled or stiill in shock that they will see real democracy in their lifetime. i bet they will not be put through a second referendum like us and we went out the second time and gave the government the answer they wanted. anyway to all those that are happy to do a bit of greek bashing may look and see is it them your angry or yourselves for not standing up for democracy.

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    Mute Ronan Gallagher
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    Jun 30th 2015, 10:30 AM

    You were asked to give it a rest. Everybody signed the petition

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    Mute Noreen Lunney
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    Jun 30th 2015, 11:10 AM

    ?

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    Mute BERTIE
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    Jun 30th 2015, 12:55 PM

    David you are a GOMBEEN MAN, the Greek situation will finally draw the line in the sand between socialists and capitalists. Unless you are mega rich David you are a boot licking GOMBEEN man

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    Mute Trevor Curley
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    Jun 30th 2015, 1:25 PM

    David corruption and super quangoes is the only thing failgeal liebour are good at.The partial economic recovery of Ireland has come about only because of the work of the Irish people , Not because of the idiots in failgeal or liebour .Enda kenny is seen as the whipping boy in Europe for been such a coward .

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    Mute Eel Knack Mole
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    Jun 30th 2015, 1:40 PM

    24,000.

    That’s how many there are on CE schemes. Roughly The same number there has been every year for the last 7/8. So it’s irrelevant.

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    Mute Bunny
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    Jun 30th 2015, 1:56 PM

    Well said Noreen.

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    Mute Robbie Kelly
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    Jun 30th 2015, 2:22 PM

    Are you talking about Ireland or Greece?

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    Mute Mike Hall
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    Jun 30th 2015, 2:31 PM

    Seems German Finance Minister (psychopathic) Schauble also recognises the legal position (publicly)

    “.. German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble told lawmakers in Berlin that Greece would stay in the euro for the time being if Greek voters reject austerity in a referendum scheduled this week, according to three people present… ”

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-30/schaeuble-said-to-see-greece-staying-in-euro-even-if-no-vote-ibjaov8p

    So, despite the wall-to-wall propaganda aimed at scaring Greeks (and disgusting external meddling in Greek democratic process), the referendum vote, by implication or otherwise, is NOT a vote on Grexit. Rather simply a vote on the Troika’s position last week in the negotiations.

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    Mute Mr Phil Officer
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    Jun 30th 2015, 2:59 PM

    David it wasn’t Syrzia who wrecked the economy, they have the near impossible task of cleaning up after the capitalists.

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    Mute captain ireland
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    Jun 30th 2015, 3:59 PM

    nice 1 David , get rid of a democratic elected party cos u don’t like them , you are really clueless

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    Mute David Doyle
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    Jun 30th 2015, 4:00 PM

    Phil. I’m curious. How come Syriza, who have made things worse, are off the hook because they inherited a mess from their predecessors. Yet Fine Gael/Labour get no credit at all for cleaning up the equally seismic mess Fianna Fáil left behind? Strange that, isn’t it? Some might even say hypocritical.

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    Mute captain ireland
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    Jun 30th 2015, 4:00 PM

    internships doesn’t count even tho government are using those figures

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    Mute Craig Mc
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    Jun 30th 2015, 4:04 PM

    Ireland was also dragged out not by the government but the turnaround of America and the UK economies. Also the mass immigration that stopped the social welfare from going out of control.

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    Mute David Doyle
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    Jun 30th 2015, 4:06 PM

    Captain- can you read?

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    Mute njh
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    Jun 30th 2015, 4:24 PM

    Singapore. The way to manage a country.

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    Mute njh
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    Jun 30th 2015, 4:24 PM

    Spot on. Cowboys voted in by Cowboys. What do you expect. Embarrassing watching their antics. Political amateurs. Like that populist baboon Hollande in France. A wave of populism and then he declines to least popular president ever at 26%. Who suffers? The people that voted them in.

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    Mute njh
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    Jun 30th 2015, 4:25 PM

    Look at the live register. Populism & socialism is not the way to deal with the shortcomings of austerity.

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    Mute captain ireland
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    Jun 30th 2015, 5:18 PM

    Muppet

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    Mute njh
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    Jun 30th 2015, 8:52 PM

    Eh sorry to break this news to you but the government did not force anyone into taking out a mortgage. As sad as circumstances are people got greedy

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    Mute njh
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    Jun 30th 2015, 8:59 PM

    Because of a nasty little movement that keeps blowing up called populism. Its particularly acute in Argentina, France and Greece. It is trying to come to Spain & Ireland. It is a nasty disease and targets the vulnerable who believe “you can tax your way out of a recession” “that anti wealth is not anti enterprise” “that someone else will always pick up the tab for everything indefinitely” “every mess was caused by a minority group not the mass public”.

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Jun 30th 2015, 11:06 PM

    But it was neither tripe, spin or bullshit? Our economy currently sits at around 4.8% growth rate, the highest in Europe. Fact.:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/irish-economic-growth-outpacing-rest-of-europe-says-ibec-1.2173163

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/irelands-gdp-growth-fastest-in-eu-318137.html

    Our employment rate is below 9% right now with 24’000 on C.E schemes and as David said at any time 8’500 on Jobbridge. Where is the bullshit?

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    Mute Biodiversity Watch On Biology-ie
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    Jun 30th 2015, 11:41 PM

    Give it a rest Richie and Dave. Enough fantasy.

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    Jun 30th 2015, 11:44 PM
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    Mute David Doyle
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    Jul 1st 2015, 12:15 AM

    John- we’re in debt? Really? You should have said. That’s a stunning statistic you pulled out there. Tell you what to do. Tip into Hallmark tomorrow, buy a nice thank you card, write that figure in the middle of it and send it off to Fianna Fáil head office. Because, lest you suffer amnesia, they’re the ones who created that debt. We’re talking about the progress this Government had made in making that debt sustainable. For example, the fact that yields on Irish 10 year loans are now 1.66% rather than the 15% this Government. But you don’t want to hear that because it doesn’t fit your narrative of a country on its knees. You don’t want to hear about growth or falling unemployment- incontrovertible as the evidence might be. You don’t want to hear about the billions saved in interest. You’d rather whine & whinge. Don’t worry, though. While you lament the might of beens and should have beens, serious people will fix the country for you and sure you can keep calling them traitors and liars.

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    Mute James Kiernan
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    Jul 1st 2015, 12:21 AM

    Health service needs €1bn David according to Leo…..keep up the good work……or is that the previous governments fault because it suits you?

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    Mute David Doyle
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    Jul 1st 2015, 12:25 AM

    No James. It’s the previous Governments fault because they left behind €180bn in debt, 15% unemployment and an already broken health service. Really. You can’t draw a line between the three? Really? It’s not rocket science.

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    Mute Mike Hall
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    Jul 1st 2015, 12:32 AM

    David Doyle

    You are clueless or lying. Numbers on Gov job schemes are around 80,000 – 10 times what you’ve posted. (See economist Constantin Gurdgiev’s figures on his blog.)

    9.8 % ‘official’ (massged) unemployment is in reality around 20% counting emigration, part-time and those ineligible but seeking (needing) work (eg spouses of those in work). (Again, Gurgiev’s figures.)

    7yrs after the banks’ pyramid bust, this is a disgrace and totally unneccesary.

    This unemployment represents in the region of €150 billion in lost productive activity in Ireland over the period. (The loss likely continuing at around €10 billion per year at present unemployment levels.)

    Had we adopted economic stimulus policies, even using fresh borrowing to do so, we would still have a net gain of at least €50 billion over this period. The empirical research of the period of the IMF’s own economists (on the ‘multipliers’ of Fiscal policy) support this.

    The subject is macro economics, not the ‘household budget’ drivel that people of your ilk peddle ad nauseam.

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    Mute David Doyle
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    Jul 1st 2015, 12:35 AM

    Mike- that’s the annual figure you quoted. So who’s clueless?

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    Mute David Doyle
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    Jul 1st 2015, 12:42 AM

    What amazes me about all these armchair economists who have read a paragraph on a blog is that the likes of you, Mike don’t seem to have noticed what’s going on around you. Full hotels, pubs, restaurants, car sales, houses selling and….job vacancies everywhere. You don’t even need to have a cursory understanding of economics. You just need to open your eyes when you’re walking down the street. But that would require not being blinded by bias. That seems to much to expect. Never let fact get in the way of the rhetoric. Night now.

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    Mute Mike Hall
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    Jul 1st 2015, 1:08 AM

    No, you are clueless David or just making it up to suit your propaganda agenda here.

    The difference of State Training Programmes (STP) between broader unemployment measure PL4 and PL4+STP is given by Gurdgiev, calculating from their respective percentages of the total workforce – 18.5% vs 22.3 % – comes to approx. 80,000.

    (I’m assuming you can manage some basic maths there… I could be wrong about that given the drivel in your comments.)

    Data is at the end of Q4 2014 – 6 mths ago, but none of the Gov programmes have altered much in numbers since then.

    http://trueeconomics.blogspot.ie/2015/02/25215-qnhs-q4-2014-broader-measures-of.html

    Also note that the broader (real world) figures of unemployment remains way over 20%.

    If that is what consider ‘success’, I hate to imagine what you consider failure.

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    Mute James Kiernan
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    Jul 1st 2015, 1:10 AM

    Oh dear David…..not everythings as rosey in the garden as it seems, even though you seemed so sure. Night night……say a little prayer for the record numbers on trollys in hospital corridors around the country while you dream of rising car sales.

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    Mute Mike Hall
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    Jul 1st 2015, 1:13 AM

    What amazes me David is that people like you can spout such sociopathic nonsense and be proud of it.

    You rate as one of the most arrogant, ignorant and smugly selfish commenters on here. Congratulations.

    (Night now.)

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    Mute jim bob
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    Jul 1st 2015, 1:51 AM

    Said it before and i will say it again – chill

    A deal has already been done last week, this is just a sideshow for the public and respective German and Greece parliments who will not now be able to scupper the deal agreed, without this farce that would have been the outcome. If they reject deal when announced officially they will have to answer to the global stage and probably commit political hari-kari.

    Problem will be solved inside the week or so. Germany cannot afford euro to fall and for PIIGS to all default like dominos in turn.

    German needs Greece as much as Greece needs German euros – its all about perceived confidence.

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    Mute Tallaght two
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    Jul 1st 2015, 2:00 AM

    for once I agree with you Mike Hall

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    Mute Rebekah Corbett
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    Jul 1st 2015, 2:06 AM

    @David…I don’t know about full pubs and restaurants because I don’t go to them. I’m 61, unemployed for the last 3 years and with no hope of getting another job. I’m glad the economy is picking up for some but please remember those of us who have no hope of getting off the dole.

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    Mute Rashers Tierney
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    Jul 1st 2015, 2:38 AM

    @David Doyle. Many contributors here have been calling for a general election here to rid this country of the very people you describe – easier said than done. Meanwhile, you are advocating American style “regime change ” for a European country? When do they send the bombers? You are some gobdaw.

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    Mute David Doyle
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    Jul 1st 2015, 6:16 AM

    James Kiernan- you’re so typical of so many people on here. You come on here spouting generic rhetoric and when you’re challenged with facts, you’ve no substance so you just regurgitate the same line over again. What’s that they say? Try being informed, not just opinionated .

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    Jul 1st 2015, 6:21 AM

    Rebekah- You’re right for sure. Not suggesting all is rosey in the garden. Just that the country is heading in the right direction rather than spiralling into a pit of despair as many would suggest. Hope you find work soon.

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    Mute David Doyle
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    Jul 1st 2015, 6:24 AM

    Mike- you seem to think cutting & pasting from the website of an economist who’s making a nifty living out of whinging makes you some sort of expert. That’s quite funny.

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    Mute Mike Hall
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    Jul 1st 2015, 8:35 AM

    Is that the best you’ve got, when you’re shown up to be plucking ‘facts’ out of your arse?

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    Mute Tadhg Keating
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    Jun 30th 2015, 9:23 AM

    People using lazy argument about Greece bailing out out bankers and developers are talking out of their…… Greece has the highest rate of tax evasion in the Eurozone countries. The only collect something like 60% of the Taxes that they should be. That right their is the problem. I feel no sympathy for the Greeks. I feel sympathy for the working people of Ireland who are still paying for Anglo through the USC. We are the ones who got screwed, Not Greece.

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    Mute Coddler Rooney
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    Jun 30th 2015, 11:01 AM

    Spot on Tadhg, What would this guy know?

    “We should be clear: almost none of the huge amount of money loaned to Greece has actually gone there. It has gone to pay out private-sector creditors – including German and French banks. Greece has gotten but a pittance, but it has paid a high price to preserve these countries’ banking systems. The IMF and the other “official” creditors do not need the money that is being demanded. Under a business-as-usual scenario, the money received would most likely just be lent out again to Greece.”

    - Joseph Stiglitz, Nobel Prize winning economist.

    http://www.socialeurope.eu/2015/06/europes-attack-on-greek-democracy/

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    Mute John Lennox
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    Jun 30th 2015, 11:01 AM

    They certainly have problems but the EU approach has been disgraceful, its been all about politics with total disregard for the fiscal.

    There are some very big hitters from the investment and economist world who have accused the EU of acting in bad faith and counter-productively. People like Mohamed El Erian ex head of Pimco the largest bond buyer in the world.

    Nobel economists like Stiglitz and Krugman who are saying that a Grexit is better than continued depression in the Euro.

    Greece has messed up over the last decade but the EU also turned a small crisis in to an existential one through mismanagement.

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    Mute Trevor Beale
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    Jun 30th 2015, 12:10 PM
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    Mute Paid_Shill
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    Jun 30th 2015, 12:17 PM

    Joe Stiglitz is correct that most of the money went to pay off Greek debts – and that these debts were to banks etc. Government debt is typically owned by banks. That’s how the financial system works.

    He skips the fact that Greece is now paying a smaller percentage of its GDP in loan repayments than before the Euro. (and only slightly more than the EU average. Greece has received huge discounts on its loans, long extensions, and is getting pretty good value when u consider what a basket case economy it is.

    Joe also wrote in the Guardian that Greece has a “strong democratic tradition”. Considering that Greece has been under the rule of either Roman or Ottoman emperors for most of the past 2000 years, was a kingdom for most of the 19th and 20th centuries, and that the country only exited military dictatorship in 1974, he is just showing his ignorance about Greece.

    He is of course, a wonderful economist, just not such a good historian.

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    Mute Brian Kavanagh
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    Jun 30th 2015, 12:21 PM

    Tadhg, the vast majority of people who have not paid their taxes in Greece have been the wealthy. They exploit loopholes to take advantage of the system, just like they do in Ireland (let’s not forget about the double-Irish, shall we?). The ordinary everyday Greek has paid their taxes and continues to suffer under austerity. If you look at the proposals made by the Greek government last week, many of proposed cuts and taxes were to the wealthy in Greece. These were the ones that were rejected by the EU/IMF. So the vast majority of Greeks will suffer far more than what has imposed on Ireland. Shouldn’t we be standing together with these people rather than creating the divides and looking after ourselves, which is exactly what the European elite want us to do?

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    Mute Chini
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    Jun 30th 2015, 12:27 PM

    Tadhg Keating make very valid points above and yet I feel that the Greek people have been led astray and bamboozled by the 4th Reich and their own ‘leaders’. Never mind their pensioners[ I'm one myself, Irish, not Greek ;-) ] it’s the squandering of young peoples hopes and dreams that I find hard to understand and this seems to be the plan of Merkel &Co. Greece is certainly a mess as recent special weeks in Lidl showed, all their Italian stuff was indeed Italian while the next week all the ‘Greek specialties’ were made in Germany,so much for any chance of an export led recovery. They once dominated the world’s shipping and had the bulk of the world fleet under their flag by COSCO has moved in on that and their ship building. Like him or not Niarchos drove their ship building into being a major player but all that has gone helped by the greed of the 4th Reich and the Greek unions but that story is too long for here. Sink or swim the Greeks have to get out of the EU and rebuild their nation.

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    Mute Trevor Beale
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    Jun 30th 2015, 12:29 PM

    Considering they more or less invented the term Pais_Shill, I think you could say that there’s a fairly ‘strong democratic tradition’ there alright.
    The term “democracy” first appeared in ancient Greek political and philosophical thought in the city-state of Athens during classical antiquity.[24][25] Led by Cleisthenes, Athenians established what is generally held as the first democracy in 508–507 BC. Cleisthenes is referred to as “the father of Athenian democracy.”[26]

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    Mute David HIggins
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    Jun 30th 2015, 12:31 PM

    Brian, I agree completely – the wealthy in Greece have avoided their taxes. The average professional (lawyer, accountant etc) pays 107% of their declared monthly income in loan repayments (ie they say the make 1000€ a month, but are amazingly able to afford 1040€ in loan repayments alone – before rent or food or entertainment)

    Time for the Greeks to get angry with other Greeks – the tax evaders. Time for syriza to deal with the Oligarchs that run the business world in Greece (as it promised). It’s all too easy for the Greeks to blame Europe, when the rich elite avoid their responsibilities.

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    Mute thejynxeffect
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    Jun 30th 2015, 12:42 PM

    Well said Brian, Tadhg is talking through his hoop. If you place your country in debt to the IMF they will pillage everything they can get their hands on until there’s nothing left. Even the concept of receiving a loan to pay a loan is ridiculous. It wouldn’t work for an individual and won’t work for Greece. Talking about Greece’s tax structure is almost irrelevant.

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    Mute Paid_Shill
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    Jun 30th 2015, 12:42 PM

    Trevor, saying that Greece has a strong democratic tradition is like saying that you & I have a strong tradition of building passage tombs that fill with light at the winter solstice….

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    Mute Tadhg Keating
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    Jun 30th 2015, 12:44 PM

    Yes it is going to private sector Creditors in France and Germany, Whats your point. They borrowed money off these people to fund a public sector pay scale and pensions that their tax revenue couldnt sustain. Why? Because the Greeks dont pay the same levels of tax that the other Eurozone countries pay. Their situation is nothing like Ireland’s so stop saying it is. Ireland’s economic problems were created reckless lending by banks, Which for some unknown reason in Anglo’s case we decided to cover to the tune of 34 billion. The Greek situation has been cause by rampant Tax evasion, a ridiculous public sector wage bill and high Social Welfare. They have brought the problem on themselves.

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    Mute Brian Kavanagh
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    Jun 30th 2015, 12:44 PM

    David, totally agree with your point about Greeks needing to get angry with their oligarchs. Both the Socialists and New Democracy (previous governments) made no effort to tackle the elite in Greek society. But when Syriza puts in place taxes and closes loopholes in order for them to contribute to the bailout, the EU/IMF reject them?? How are the ordinary Greeks not supposed to get angry with EU/IMF then?

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    Mute Tadhg Keating
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    Jun 30th 2015, 12:59 PM

    Brain Well connected Trevor. Maybe my morals are a bit better than yours. When I borrow money off someone i like to pay it back.They borrowed money to sustain a way of Life for their people they simply couldnt afford. Tax evasion is rampant in Greece and not just amoung the Wealthy. There is no comparison between Greece and Ireland. We were just stupid enough to pay the Debts of a private bank. They were never our Creditors, They were Anglo’s. Greece on the other hand are paying their creditors. Look up what a creditor is in the dictionary will you!

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    Mute Brian Kavanagh
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    Jun 30th 2015, 1:24 PM

    Tadhg, I see you have lowered yourself to insulting me. I am sorry that you feel you have to do this. I think that most people who borrow money like to pay it back and I’m glad you do so. In case you’re wondering, I don’t borrow and if I did I would pay it back. I live within my means, just like the vast majority of Greeks. But I think you should consider bankruptcy for some people. Like the ones in Ireland who borrowed during the boom, only to find they were not able to pay it back when we lost our jobs, due to the likes of Anglo. So, your solution is lend more money for these people to repay their loans? I don’t know a lot about economics, but something tells me this doesn’t work.

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    Mute David HIggins
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    Jun 30th 2015, 1:33 PM

    I disagree Brian. Since Syriza came to power, tax receipts are down – because people reckon they can get away without paying again. I’m not saying they’re worse than the previous governments at collecting taxes – they just made a song and dance about dealing with tax evaders and oligarchies – and have done nothing about it.

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    Mute Brian Kavanagh
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    Jun 30th 2015, 1:37 PM

    Thanks thejynxeffect. Having spent at least half of the last three years in Greece, I think I may have more knowledge of the Greek people than most people asserting opinions on here. It amazing how many people resort to stereotypes of the Greeks and assume that all Greeks are the same as those who avoid paying taxes, are lazy and seek to bring down Europe. Its exactly the same as the racism that is used against Irish people all around the world. But racism from the Irish seems okay when we want to differentiate ourselves from others. It makes me ashamed to be Irish.

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    Mute Brian Kavanagh
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    Jun 30th 2015, 1:43 PM

    On the contrary David, there are signs all over Greece stating that if you don’t receive a receipt for your goods, you don’t have to pay for them. This has been a policy of Syriza. Believe me, I was hoping not to given a receipt in the time I spent there (approx three of the last six months)!! So there are efforts being made. I’m not a member of Syriza, but they have only been in power for the last five months and most of this time has been taken up with EU/IMF. All I am saying is that they are taking some measures, which have been a lot more than the previous two governments did in the years they were in power. Surely you would agree that given extra time, these policies may continue?

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    Mute Tadhg Keating
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    Jun 30th 2015, 1:52 PM

    Rubbish Jynx. How in Gods name can you say Greece’s tax structure is irrelevant. Do you even have the slightest Idea of how an economy works? Did you ever ask yourself why they placed their country in debt to the IMF? They werent generating enough tax revenue to pay the Public sector wage bill, Pensions and social Welfare. They own something like $1billion to Pharmaceutical company for hospital drugs.

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    Mute David HIggins
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    Jun 30th 2015, 2:05 PM

    Brian, I’m not sure if it was Syriza who brought in the VAT receipts, but in any case it is welcome.

    However, VAT is a tiny portion of potential tax receipts. Tax receipts have decreased since Syriza came to power.

    It’s hard to collect a property tax when there is no land registry….

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    Mute Tadhg Keating
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    Jun 30th 2015, 2:05 PM

    No Brian, Thats not what i saying, And by the way you were the one who started the personal Stuff. Im Saying that Greece should start paying back the money they owe by collecting the revenue that is owed to themselves by their own people not paying their taxes. It is no co-incidence that they are in the situation they are in and have the highest rate of Tax in the Eurozone. Syriza themselves recognise the high level of tax evasion in the country. Its not about whether the vast majority of Greeks are living within their means, Their means are too high in the 1st place. Thats the problem. You cannot sustain the Greek Public sector Wages, Pensions and Social Welfare when your percantage of total tax being collected is under 60%. Those are the fact Brian

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    Mute Tadhg Keating
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    Jun 30th 2015, 2:06 PM

    Highest rate of Tax ivasion that should say!

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    Mute Brian Kavanagh
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    Jun 30th 2015, 2:31 PM

    Okay, so please tell me how you propose to fix this Tadhg? Even if they do clamp down on taxing the wealthy, which the EU/IMF stopped them from doing, how are you suggesting you solve the problem? Even if the Greeks accept the measures that the EU/IMF are suggesting, this will only get them to November and the whole thing will start again. So where does it all end? The EU/IMF have not been able to come up with any answers, only suggesting things that will get Greeks to the next bailout. And if you cut pensions and social welfare, how do you tackle 40% child poverty, 60% youth unemployment etc? The IMF guidance from the first bailout suggested that there would be currently 11% unemployment if the program was followed; it now stands at 26%. If there is a way to solve this problem, I am happy to agree with you, but just saying agree with the EU/IMF without offering any solutions to the core problems that face the majority of the Greek people. BTW, if I have said anything personal, I apologise for it.

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    Mute Brian Kavanagh
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    Jun 30th 2015, 2:34 PM

    I am not defending tax evasion in any way and believe that those who engage in it should be punished in by means possible. I am just saying that even if they did go down that road, which Syriza are attempting to do, it still will not solve the problems.

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    Mute thejynxeffect
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    Jun 30th 2015, 2:47 PM

    Tadgh

    I know how an economy works. Im saying that regardless of what their tax structure is, the situation Greece is in would be the same. Almost every modern economy you can think of is spending well beyond their means, Ireland is no different. Remember when Greece was bailed out the 1st and 2nd time? The increased taxes (that you seem to want) etc. Was that not supposed to solve the problem? Its like putting a plaster on a deep stab wound. How do you think Greece should get out of this since you’re obviously the economic genius around here?

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    Mute John Lennox
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    Jun 30th 2015, 3:12 PM

    The Euro is fast becoming a hard currency peg rather than a functioning currency.

    The EU didn’t get serious about resolving Greece.

    No country, especially one with a fixed currency it has no control over can handle debt of 180%.

    Greece can keep reforming and its economy will keep shrinking.

    This is the reason that most economists think that the EU handling is wrong.

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    Mute Rashers Tierney
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    Jun 30th 2015, 4:26 PM

    Err, have we had any luck with OUR oligarchs?? And the foreign oligarchs we all apparently owe money to? Hand out some more great advice, why don’t you – but be a little more specific next time.

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    Mute Tadhg Keating
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    Jun 30th 2015, 5:00 PM

    I dont know how to fix it Brian, but the current approach is definitely not helping the situation. I have no problem with Syriza taking a hardline approach with Europe but they have taken it too far given the chaos over there for the last 2 days. Im glad to see they have now issued a counter proposal. I got involved in this conversation because people were suggesting that Irish and Greek situations were similar which i don’t believe they are. We got lumped with a Debt that wasnt ours. Im not claiming to be an economic expert at all far from it, merely pointing out that it isnt as simple as saying that Greece are being screwed by Europe, There are serious public expenditure and Tax reforms required in Greece aswell. Surely we can agree that only 60% of Taxes being collected is a massive problem. The IMF/EU also need to realise that Crucifying Greece isnt going to help the situation either. Personally I would be in favour of a debt write down of some description but only when public sector and Taxation reforms have been implemented.

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    Mute Brian Kavanagh
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    Jun 30th 2015, 6:08 PM

    Indeed we can agree that 60% of tax collection is a massive problem that needs to be addressed urgently, Tadhg. And this is expressed to me by the ordinary Greek people when I’m down there. After all, they want the best for their country too. However I believe they have been lumped with debt in a similar way to the Irish. Only 8% of all the money from the IMF/EU has gone to the Greeks. The other 92% went to support the banks and financial institutions and to pay off debt (i.e. is returned to Europe). Greece problems are not going to be solved overnight, and I don’t believe can be sorted in the context of the euro, so what has happened over the last few days was bound to happen sooner or later. The saddest thing is that the ordinary everyday Greeks are caught up in this terrible crossfire.

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    Mute Cian O Donoghue
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    Jul 1st 2015, 7:24 AM

    So they borrowed to pay back money that they had previously borrowed Coddler?

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    Mute Bill
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    Jun 30th 2015, 7:33 AM

    Why can’t the Greeks be good Europeans like us Irish and let the small folk pay back the debts created by greedy bankers and developers for the next three generations

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    Mute Bilbo Baggins
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    Jun 30th 2015, 7:55 AM

    Its really getting tiring listening to Greece being compared to us. There is literally no comparison in the reasons that we were bailed out. We were screwed , the Greeks for the most part screwed themselves !!

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    Mute Avina Laaf
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    Jun 30th 2015, 7:57 AM

    Except in the case of Greece the debt wasn’t created by greedy bankers and developers but by successive governments who spent way more than they were bringing in in taxes, and put the rest on the credit card.

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    Mute Robin Hilliard
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    Jun 30th 2015, 7:57 AM

    The debts were not created by “greedy bankers and developers” but by the central Greek government which tolerated widespread tax evasion, provided across-the-board tax relief to the religious, paid enormous pensions to everybody, including anybody who retired early, within their bloated civil service. All the while providing inaccurate statistics to the ECB and trading on the good name of an EU-backed currency.

    Over the next week, the international community currently propping up the Greek government, the Greek government itself and most especially, the Greek people, are going to have a hard time keeping things together.

    And nothing at all will be helped by Tsirpas’ current attitude that nothing at all is the fault of the Greek government, or of the Greek people who elected them.

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    Mute Tom Kelly
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    Jun 30th 2015, 8:11 AM

    Avina, the Greeks did screw themselves as the Greek people were dodging paying taxes.

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    Mute Avina Laaf
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    Jun 30th 2015, 8:24 AM

    Agreed Tom, and the attitude of successive governments seemed to be “well we’ll be long gone when the sh!t hits the fan so it won’t be our problem” (an attitude not unlike Bertie Ahern’s government it has to be said).
    Well the sh!t is now hitting the fan and its everyone’s problem.

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    Mute John Lennox
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    Jun 30th 2015, 11:17 AM

    All the Greek Govts that spend 15 yrs screwing the state through corruption and tax evasion are the same parties that the EU wants back in power in Athens.

    The EU just wants people to go along with it.

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    Mute Search Eagle
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    Jun 30th 2015, 11:57 AM

    “greedy bankers and developers”

    Don’t forget about “gamblers”.

    It’s clear that this is just a hollow, simplistic narrative.

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    Mute R H Beige Lark
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    Jun 30th 2015, 11:47 PM

    So who is this IMF crowd anyway and why have they not charged a Denis O’Brien type of interest rate to aid financial recovery?

    Punitive interest rates upon the Greeks who never had a hope of paying such sums back. Makes you wonder who benefits from directing Greece to the position where they have to sell off their resources. So who wants to buy Greece’s resources?

    By my apish reckoning a European country has just been bought and sold by a bunch of political bankers.

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    Mute John
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    Jun 30th 2015, 10:41 AM

    Our crowd-funding in Ireland is far more efficient than that, it is called “The Revenue Commissioners’ Greece should really try it, it works !!!!!

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    Mute Red Marauder
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    Jun 30th 2015, 7:24 AM

    They need to put a Maths teacher in charge , not Tsipras.

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    Mute john Appleseed
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    Jun 30th 2015, 7:35 AM

    Yeah because being run by Teachers is really working out for us. Good luck today Greece.

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    Mute Shane Hickey
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    Jun 30th 2015, 7:55 AM

    well,yes it is working out. you are about to see what would have happened if we followed the anti fine Gael policies set out by many contributers on here

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    Mute just_pure_fedup
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    Jun 30th 2015, 7:55 AM

    Retort of the week John you get an A++++++

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    Mute Thomas Maher
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    Jun 30th 2015, 10:53 AM

    Yes and no Shane. If in ireland the bond holder’s had been told to go whistle. To begin with instead of being bailed out. starting the process of turning private debt into sovereign debt we would right now be in a very different position. Probably closer to the current success of Iceland.

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    Mute Search Eagle
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    Jun 30th 2015, 11:59 AM

    ” Probably closer to the current success of Iceland.”

    I don’t see that Iceland is doing miles better than Ireland. And they had to undergo a painful contraction process.

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    Mute Martin Critten
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    Jun 30th 2015, 12:51 PM

    Default is the headline – as is the usual spin – the real legal term is ‘in arrears’ – which offers Greece time for further negotiation. It’s sheer panto time in the Eurozone. The Spinners in high EU places are purposefully neglecting to let the citizen’s in on the fact that strategic write down occurred plenty of times in the aid programmes for post war Germany. A peoples who recklessly voted for someone to go on a rampage across the planet. So what’s needed is an adult and constructive approach to sustainability, not the economic terrorism from a bunch of one dimensional school teachers.

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    Mute Mr Phil Officer
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    Jun 30th 2015, 2:56 PM

    It wasn’t Syrzia economic policies that brought them to this point, but don’t let that get in the way of a good rant.

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    Mute John Devoy
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    Jun 30th 2015, 11:44 PM
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    Mute Sinead Cosgrave
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    Jun 30th 2015, 7:34 AM

    They need to pay their debts like the rest of us !

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    Mute Ray Farrelly
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    Jun 30th 2015, 7:37 AM

    What debt’s would that be

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    Mute Neal Ireland Hello
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    Jun 30th 2015, 7:51 AM

    @Ray That would be the debts that they ran up over the last few years by spending to much money, failing to collect enough taxes and retiring at an unfeasibly low age. And before you say it, most of Greek’s debt is government debt, not bank debt.

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    Mute John Lennox
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    Jun 30th 2015, 11:17 AM

    The need it restructured. Fake morality plays have no place in business.

    The choice for Athens is continued long term depression in the Euro or leave and have a chance after a few years.

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    Mute john doe
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    Jun 30th 2015, 2:01 PM

    No Neal they transferred most of the bank debt to other sovereigns such as Ireland’s €350M contribution. Further bank debt heaped onto the people of Ireland.
    Why our government agreed to this is unfathomable!!

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    Mute John Lennox
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    Jun 30th 2015, 3:16 PM

    John Doe.

    It was agreed to because keeping the countries in the Euro was the only concern, not their economies. Greece should have been helped leave but that would start the Euro unraveling.

    Its fair to say that the Euro has not been a success, economy wise for most of Europe.

    They agreed but they hadn’t the balls to stand up and say that heaping more debt on countries has never worked and that political dreams of the Euro will never beat fiscal facts.

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    Mute Mal
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    Jun 30th 2015, 6:00 PM

    Creditors need to absorb the risk they took too you know.

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    Mute Jimmy jones
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    Jun 30th 2015, 8:03 AM

    These Syriza clowns have just signed up their people to years of poverty. This is a humanitarian crisis unfolding. I can’t believe the Greek people fell for their lies

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    Mute Shane Hickey
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    Jun 30th 2015, 8:26 AM

    what lies? they borrowed money and failed to pay it back. if you lent money to someone and they didn’t pay it back, why would you give them more?

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    Mute Ray Farrelly
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    Jun 30th 2015, 8:32 AM

    Shane we payed back money we did not owe.

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    Mute Ray Farrelly
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    Jun 30th 2015, 8:58 AM

    Like the lies FG told us

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    Mute Tom Kelly
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    Jun 30th 2015, 9:46 AM

    Jimmy you are spot on. Another thing i don’t get is, syriza were elected because they said they would tell Europe to get stuffed. And now they have the opportunity to do so but they are putting the decision back on the greek people.

    Cowards and weak leaders.

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    Mute John Lennox
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    Jun 30th 2015, 11:13 AM

    Under the EU plan they would have economic depression with end, that is according to some of the leading economists in the world.

    You dress a cat up.

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    Mute Friendo Friendo
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    Jun 30th 2015, 1:37 PM

    Worlds biggest ponzi scheme is about to unwind

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GSXbgfKFWg

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    Mute Mal
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    Jun 30th 2015, 5:58 PM

    oops! obviously, that should be “weak”

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    Mute Mal
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    Jun 30th 2015, 5:59 PM

    @Tom, it’s not cowardly and week. They know exactly what they are doing. They’re hoping for a no, but if it gets a yes then it’s out of their hands as they’ll be out of office. Then the problem will be pushed down the road a bit until the next time they need a bail out.

    Forget the finances, forget the markets, this is about people. If it’s a no on Sunday then the Greeks take some hard medicine, but things will improve within a few of years. If it’s a yes, then this sham continues, for the next few years, before they have to leave in the end anyway. This whole thing is a f-ing joke! The sooner the Euro dies the better.

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    Mute Shane Manton
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    Jun 30th 2015, 7:52 AM

    Their sovereign debt created by them!

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    Mute John Lennox
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    Jun 30th 2015, 11:05 AM

    Greece in 2008 was not beyond resolution, its debt was about 120%.

    EU mismanagement of the crisis turned it in to a game changer for the Euro.

    Brussels can’t even manage a tiny little hiccup like Greece, that is the long term worry that people should take away.

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    Mute Andrei
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    Jun 30th 2015, 5:01 PM

    Yes, it’s the EU’s fault that Greece has poor tax collection and massive issues with tax dodging. It’s also the EU’s fault that Greece is a bureaucratic nightmare and rife with corruption.
    The most recent number I could find is that they had €30 bln euro of uncollected taxes in 2012. Even if they collected only half of that, they could have completely covered their budget deficit for 2012 and even post a surplus.

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    Mute John Lennox
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    Jun 30th 2015, 6:13 PM

    No one said that Andrei, it is a lie you made up.

    The EU’s handling of this has been to ignore that even if Greece was perfect that it would not handle this debt level and the rigidity of the Euro.

    Greece’s primary surplus for the first half of the year is going to be over a billion. Not many countries these days have a primary surplus.

    The ECB failed to keep several of its mandates around growth and inflation.

    It is not as if the rest of the Eurozone has been doing well for the last few years, its been desperately bad performer in terms of growth and jobs. Its worst performance since the 30′s crash.

    Greece is a failing economy in a failing currency.

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    Mute Andrei
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    Jul 1st 2015, 12:04 AM

    I actually do believe Greece could have handled that level of debt if it started working on combating tax evasion and corruption early on, look at how Eastern EU members are handling those issues and they’ve been succeeding.

    They’re posting such a high primary surplus because they’ve delayed payments, it’s just playing with numbers.

    While I don’t really support how the EU handled this issue, please check out the reform package the Eurogroup proposed to Greece, the one which the Greek government thought was too ‘humiliating’. Most of those reforms have to do with combating tax evasion and improving collection rates, it’s overall incredibly sensible and something that Greece could do.

    I’m originally from Romania, another country which took a big bail out package post 2008 with similar austerity measures attached, so it’s somewhat difficult for me to empathize with Greeks considering that even the incompetent lot of politicians from back home managed to deal with the systemic issues the country was facing. Greece is quite similar from almost every point of view, the only difference is that they had a market economy for longer and are more developed, but the underlying issues are there, and it’s incredibly frustrating seeing how there’s close to nothing being done about them.

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    Mute Stephen
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    Jun 30th 2015, 12:36 PM

    Tell me has anyone got an answer or a solution so that austerity can be eased. It’s very easy come on here and harp on about kenny and the former ff party how they’ve ruined the country and we shouldn’t pay back our debt, then get a load of green thumbs — what a load of bs.
    Oh and of course “let’s leave the euro” then what…. What do we do then?

    It’s getting old and boring the same stupid comments about the usual people.
    Alexis Tsiprasis a chancer and a bluffer.

    Bring on the red thumbs :))))

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    Mute Martin Bonner
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    Jul 1st 2015, 2:08 AM

    Green from me

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    Mute rpmc
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    Jun 30th 2015, 8:40 AM

    If a No vote is achieved on Sunday, the Syriza Government will have bought more time using the currency of Democracy see also http://thebottomline.ie/varoufakis/

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    Mute John
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    Jun 30th 2015, 10:48 AM

    Time is the ONLY thing they can afford after Sunday because everything else costs money

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    Mute John Sheehy
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    Jun 30th 2015, 10:28 AM

    Ekas – a top-up given to poorer Greek pensioners that Athens prefers to scrap by 2020, but Europe wants phasing out earlier.

    They are throwing the country into complete collapse because of small differences such as this.

    When you see some of these stories I really do believe it is a case of very rich socialist more focused on ideology than actually doing what is best for Greece.

    Tsipras had no problem blocking the referendum back in 2011, yet now he is suddenly in favour of one.
    And people are championing him as some sort of democrat, it is laughable.

    Given how unstable and unpreditable Syriza are, it might be better if the army took power again to stabilise the country.

    FYI Syriza are backed by some the Greece’s wealthiest billionaires, something they do not broadcast.
    Perhaps this is why they are so opposed to clamping down on tax dodgers?

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    Mute James Reilly
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    Jun 30th 2015, 1:28 PM

    Well done Greece do an Iceland say no to financial blackmail jail the banksters & politicans for there crimes .

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    Mute Search Eagle
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    Jun 30th 2015, 6:54 PM

    “Well done Greece do an Iceland say no to financial blackmail jail the banksters & politicans for there crimes ”

    The banksters main “crime” in Greece was lending to the Greek government.

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    Mute Adrian
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    Jun 30th 2015, 12:25 PM

    5 days left before merkel, lagarde, draghi and their irish servant muppets, kenny and noonan realise that their extremist euro austerity program ain’t gonna work. Then their strategy will change to appear to implement change purely to save their own skin, maintain as much power as they can and keep
    themselves in their very lucritive jobs.

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    Mute John
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    Jun 30th 2015, 1:38 PM

    A relation of mine borrowed money 3 times off me n never paid a penny back ( my own fault ) but if he was starving in the ditch on fire I wouldn’t piss on him now. This isn’t the first time the Greeks have failed to pay what they owe. Putin and Greece are more than welcome to each other. A word of warning to the Greek people if you crawl into bed with the modern day hitler (and ye know all about him ) ye will rue the day.

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    Mute KMac
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    Jun 30th 2015, 1:08 PM

    How does being in the EU benefit me financially? It doesn’t. How does it improve my day to day life? It doesn’t. What does it add to my growth as a person? Nothing.
    The EU benefits big business, it makes the already wealthy wealthier.
    It’s a fat cat loanshark lending business with the end goal of owning you, to strip you of your assets, your culture & your identity.
    I envy the Greeks their principles, courage & loyalty. Our politicians sold our country for 30 pieces of silver, betray us with one corrupt scandal after another & thumb their noses at us, leaving with golden handshakes.
    I applaud you Greece. Your countries soul is intact. Ours was sold.

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    Mute Joey Egan
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    Jun 30th 2015, 3:01 PM

    without being in the EU many of the multi-national companies based here would leave to another eurozone country. 1000′s of jobs lost, consumer spending down which would effect jobs in the retail and service industry, govt. collecting less tax, more people on social welfare. Result in higher national debt and much tighter budgets towards national infrastructure. Would effect the whole nation.

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    Mute KMac
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    Jun 30th 2015, 3:32 PM

    And what keeps those multi-nationals here again? Oh yeah! Our corporate tax rate!

    And what is Europe looking for us to change again? Oh yeah! Our corporate tax rate!

    And where would they up sticks & move to?

    France with 33%? Germany with 30%?
    Spain with 30%?

    I don’t think so.

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    Mute Joey Egan
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    Jun 30th 2015, 3:48 PM

    Ya they have wanted us to change it for a long time now but still hasn’t. ….if it was going to happen would of happened during our bail out or during the re negotiations of our bail out. We are now in a much stronger position so no reason for our govt. to give in now. Free trade between other European countries probably be the main reason or you think they are here because of the massive size of our market compared to other EU countries. We are those companies foothold in Europe.

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    Mute KMac
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    Jun 30th 2015, 4:04 PM

    You just made my points again. Cheers.

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    Mute Danny McLaughlin
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    Jun 30th 2015, 4:12 PM

    KMac, 33% is the headline rate of corp tax, the actual rate after loopholes are taken into consideration is closer to 3-5%, which is the same for almost every EU country, including Ireland.

    Not one firm in France pays 33%.

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    Mute KMac
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    Jun 30th 2015, 4:17 PM

    And still….the multi-nationals choose Ireland. What would we do without the EU!

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    Mute Joey Egan
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    Jun 30th 2015, 4:30 PM

    If you knew the difference between being an EU country and a country in Europe you would know that I didn’t.

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    Mute Search Eagle
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    Jun 30th 2015, 6:54 PM

    “And what keeps those multi-nationals here again? Oh yeah! Our corporate tax rate!
    And what is Europe looking for us to change again? Oh yeah! Our corporate tax rate!”

    You should feel lucky that Europe pumped us full of subsidies when we were an economic shit-hole, gave us access to a huge marketplace, tariff-free and an disproportionately large say in formulating market rules, all the while allowing us to run a tax regime that undercuts the rest of them.

    There seems to be a large segment of our population labouring under the delusion that if the EU collapsed or we left it, we’d stop being a small country with little clout.

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    Mute Cian O Donoghue
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    Jul 1st 2015, 7:33 AM

    Indeed Search.

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    Mute Jonny Lennon
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    Jun 30th 2015, 1:34 PM

    Stand firm Greece, support you 100% all the way, a government who actually really cares about its people and country as opposed to parasitic pathological liars in Leinster house where the gravy train continues to flow to those worms who leech onto it.

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    Mute Search Eagle
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    Jun 30th 2015, 6:55 PM

    “a government who actually really cares about its people ”

    They “care” about them so much they’re willing to let the economy collapse and life savings be destroyed. How caring.

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    Mute Juan Venegas
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    Jun 30th 2015, 12:43 PM

    Putting Zimbabwe and Greece into the same sentence, who would of taught. The embarrassment… I feel sorry for the working decent tax payer Greek.

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    Mute .
    Favourite .
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    Jun 30th 2015, 1:13 PM

    on reflection Euro was not a good idea for Greece

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    Mute John Gavin
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    Jun 30th 2015, 1:59 PM

    That’s part of the problem…most of them don’t pay income tax and they refuse to legislate for proper taxation

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    Mute John Lennox
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    Jun 30th 2015, 6:14 PM

    The Euro was not a good idea for most of Europe.

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    Mute Dylan Dooner
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    Jun 30th 2015, 1:48 PM

    Enda at least Greece has balls! something you never had your all talk

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    Mute Alan O'connor
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    Jun 30th 2015, 4:54 PM

    Now looking for a third bail out. Which some on here suggested absolutely would not happen.

    You couldn’t make this up.

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    Mute Danny McLaughlin
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    Jun 30th 2015, 6:18 PM

    Let’s see how this is spun by the usual crowd on here.

    Perhaps they will now call Syriza economic traitors?
    After all, that’s what you do to Governments that ask for a bailout.

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    Mute Search Eagle
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    Jun 30th 2015, 6:59 PM

    All the “Syriza” crowd are interested in is using the Greek situation as a stick with which to beat the Irish government.

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    Mute John Lennox
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    Jul 1st 2015, 11:14 AM

    If there is a condition where debt is parked for a no. of years then it fine but unless there is an agreed write off or default there will be no recovery in Greece.

    It doesn’t matter if Greece became the most effectively run state in the world.

    It debt is unsustainable.

    That is a maths problem, economics. The Eu sees everything as a political problem.

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    Mute Gavin Scott
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    Jun 30th 2015, 2:16 PM

    There is no solution other than stop living beyond your means. It’s that simple. Harsh penalties will ensue. Did the Greeks really think they could party on our behalf? A couple of people around here (socially left let’s call it) need to take a good hard look at themselves. After staring the mirror down, perhaps a bit of education would come in handy! The only solution here is some some of debt forgiveness and to cut the Greeks lose. I’m hoping Italy, Spain and Portugal are lapping this lesson up!

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    Mute Martin Bonner
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    Jul 1st 2015, 2:11 AM

    Couldn’t agree more.

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    Mute RICHARD Paul
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    Jun 30th 2015, 7:50 AM

    Too early for your crap David !

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    Mute John Deane
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    Jun 30th 2015, 11:29 PM

    What a joke Greece are

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    Mute B-Egan
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    Jun 30th 2015, 3:49 PM

    Syriza playing an absolute blinder yet again . Their strategy lost to most of the commenters on here. Anyone hear of a bank called Deutsche Bank well id say they would have a keen interest in giving a phone call to the troika with a few harsh realitys. 100 trillion junk deritives any wobble in the market would implode it causing a big big big problem for the elites of this world. Greece will default then demand new bailout terms and A debt restructure or Greece will exit the Euro not Europe the Euro its land mass depicts it stays in Europe of course exit brings the zombie banks and ponsi scheme down. They will install their own currency again something they have been preparing to do since Syriza took office then they are free to trade with anyone they like investors just glad to invest in something that is regrowth will in invest that is what they do the market will not stop and the BRICS nations will invest Greece will be fine it is the rest of us that will be in the plop. Id give them what they want the EU’s little game is up they either shite or burst now. Like i said numerous times on here we will envy them yet. Remember and watch how when challenged the power brokers get in a bit of a tisy the mask slips and they get squeaky and panicky. All great when you want them to give in to you. They have to be challenged though you dont get anything if you dont ask haha Fine Gael jokers. #Squeakybumtime

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    Mute Search Eagle
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    Jun 30th 2015, 6:57 PM

    “Syriza playing an absolute blinder yet again . ”

    I have to say that (should no agreement be found) destroying the economy, people’s life savings and causing a social crisis is a very generous definition of “playing an absolute blinder”.

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    Mute trebloc01
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    Jun 30th 2015, 11:51 PM

    The Irish people had to pay back what the bankers squandered and those bankers are living nicely in their holidays homes in the sun

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    Mute jb
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    Jun 30th 2015, 8:07 PM

    Viva Greece !!! Leave the Euro and we will come to support you !!

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    Mute Search Eagle
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    Jul 1st 2015, 1:17 AM

    Why not put your money in a Greek bank?

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    Mute Adrian
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    Jun 30th 2015, 4:33 PM

    I suppose if the IMF just see greece as falling in arrears with its debt, you could equally say that germany are just in arrears with their WW2 debt as well, or is there one set of rules for germany and another set of rules for greece. Christ, would ya look at that photo of that dry bag merkel!

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    Mute saoirse janneau
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    Jun 30th 2015, 4:06 PM

    Just saw this in the guardian @16.00 GREECE PROPOSES A THIRD BAILOUT

    The Greek government has proposed a new Two-Year bailout programme, according to news breaking in Athens.

    This two-year programme would be supplied under the European Stability Mechanism (Europe’s bailout fund)

    And – crucially – would run alongside a debt restructuring. And it wouldn’t include the International Monetary Fund.

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    Mute Edwina Cairnduff
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    Jun 30th 2015, 7:35 PM

    Just noticed Chancellor Angela Merkel looks like Supreme Chancellor Palpatine aka Darth Sidious, Emperor of the Galactic Empire in Starwars – https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Emperor_RotJ.png

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    Mute Edwina Cairnduff
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    Jun 30th 2015, 7:39 PM
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    Mute Carm(Little Vampire)
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    Jun 30th 2015, 6:11 PM

    Only a complete fool would keep throwing good money after bad. Just make them exit Europe. Greece should never have got in in the first place as they cooked the books to do si

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    Mute Mike O Neill
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    Jun 30th 2015, 1:53 PM

    Incomplete report which should be updated with the following and which Varoufakis has repeated several times in the last few days:

    Syriza requested the return of €1.9bn in profits held by the ECB from holding Greek bonds to enable payment of the €1.6bn IMF loan. Why can’t one arm of the Troika (ECB) transfer the money to another arm of the Troika (IMF)?

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31128356

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    Mute Big mac and whys
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    Jun 30th 2015, 4:01 PM

    Here in the garden with two hot bitch beagles, bathing in blue briefs, drinking and thinking of Greece, thinking of Alex and how heeza man who never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity

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    Mute John Sheehy
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    Jun 30th 2015, 4:28 PM

    Here is the letter they sent.
    It’s all over the place, mixed fonts, mixed font sizes, seems to reflect them perfectly.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIwVqpNWgAEM_X9.jpg

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    Mute John Tierney
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    Jun 30th 2015, 1:43 PM

    Didn’t kenny and noonan find a couple of million down the back of a couch some years back? C’mon Alexis, hand down the back of the couch. You never know!

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    Mute Alan Clare
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    Jun 30th 2015, 12:07 PM

    Did they check there trousers in the washing machine. ..

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    Mute Tap Solny
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    Jun 30th 2015, 2:46 PM

    Here.

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    Mute Kian
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    Jun 30th 2015, 3:41 PM

    Can we not just go back to bartering sheep and cattle? Currency is causing nothing but trouble!

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    Mute Paul Lanigan
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    Jun 30th 2015, 11:59 PM

    Just checked….world is still turning

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    Mute Rashers Tierney
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    Jul 1st 2015, 1:16 AM

    Juncker feels betrayed?!?? what a laugh. That would imply that he is capable of human feeling (other than arrogance and irritation at being disobeyed). Surely a contradiction in an EU technobot – sorry technocrat

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    Mute B-Egan
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    Jun 30th 2015, 7:18 PM

    Search eagle put some re before the search. Greed is in a crisis already what is happening I democracy can you fathom what it actually is . I will remember you for after the events I presume you will be playing down anything positive in the long run and playing up the EU doomsday rhetoric . But after I think you will have to admit . Syriza are playing a blinder.

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    Mute Monty Wuggy
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    Jun 30th 2015, 11:38 PM

    “To authoritarianism and harsh austerity, we will respond with democracy, calmly and decisively.” — Alexis Tsipras

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    Mute John Gavin
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    Jun 30th 2015, 1:56 PM

    Check down the back of the sofa!

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    Mute .
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    Jun 30th 2015, 2:19 PM

    Good time to holiday in Greece should get good rate for the ND New Drachma

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    Mute Rock Stoneballs
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    Jun 30th 2015, 3:42 PM

    Wait a second, don’t kickstarter receive all money if a project doesn’t reach it’s goal?

    What moron just decided to gift kickstarter a few hundred grand?

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    Mute Rock Stoneballs
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    Jun 30th 2015, 3:51 PM

    Actually apparently it’ll all be refunded. Kindly ignore this comment!

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    Mute Karl
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    Jun 30th 2015, 2:47 PM
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    Mute Mich
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    Jun 30th 2015, 2:12 PM

    They need to sort themselves out, this is ruining my summer plans!

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    Mute Bertie Cagney
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    Jun 30th 2015, 12:41 PM

    Alexis tsipras wont find that €1.6 billion down the back of his couch

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    Mute Keith Murray
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    Jun 30th 2015, 2:22 PM

    People live people die it’s only Money one person in America loses out ohhh noooo quick everyone look Greece is gonna default what will happen…. More war maybe ?!?

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    Mute Scarr
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    Jun 30th 2015, 12:04 PM
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    Mute Joe McKenna
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    Jun 30th 2015, 11:40 PM

    Is this where destroy the euro and start trading wampum like native Americans? I’ve got loads of wampum, always thought it might come in handy some day.

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    Mute The Dublin Cynic
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    Jul 1st 2015, 1:07 AM

    Send round the Viper

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    Mute whereisspace
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    Jun 30th 2015, 12:08 PM

    That’s a lot of sofa cushions to search under.

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    Mute Martin Gallagher
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    Jun 30th 2015, 3:56 PM

    Just an idea here but perhaps there is a temporary solution to the Greek default situation. Cut the deficit and take in some of the migrants from Libya?

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    Mute John Sheehy
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    Jun 30th 2015, 4:31 PM

    The EU is already proposing to cut the deficit, suspend interest payments, and reduce the interest rate.
    Syriza have agreed to that part even if they are spinning the opposite.

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    Mute Debora Smith
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    Dec 23rd 2015, 4:22 AM

    GOOD DAY

    Sir/Madam. I am Mrs, Debora Smith a Reputable, Legitimate & an accredited money Lender. I loan Xmas money out to individuals in need of financial assistance. Do you have a bad credit or are you in need of money to pay bills? i want to use this medium to inform you that i render reliable beneficiary assistance as I’ll be glad to offer you a loan at 2% interest rate to reliable individuals.

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    As soon as you fill the form above, I will send you my loan Terms And Conditions Asap in order for us to proceed. I will be looking forward to hear from you so as to proceed.

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    Mrs. Debora Smith
    CEO

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    Mute Gareth Barry
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    Jul 1st 2015, 2:09 AM

    While they did not make the payment, its inaccurate to say that they’ve officially defaulted as per the regulations & stipulations of IMF agreements it won’t be until 30 days time that they’ll officially be classified as defaulting. Read the fine print & listen to the people who know, ala renowned economist Paul Krugman.

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    Mute Andy Perry
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    Sep 20th 2016, 1:24 PM

    I’m Andy Perry by name., i want to use this medium to alert all loan seekers to be very careful because there are scammers everywhere.some time ago I was financially strained, and due to my desperation I was scammed by several online lenders. I had almost lost hope until a friend of mine referred me to a very reliable lender called Mr.Ramsey Dave who lend me an unsecured loan of $100,000 under 24hours without any stress. If you are in need of any kind of loan just contact him now via: ramsedave121@gmail.com I‘m using this medium to alert all loan seekers because of the hell I passed through in the hands of those fraudulent lenders. And I don’t wish even my enemy to pass through such hell that I passed through in the hands of those fraudulent online lenders,i will also want you to help me pass this information to others who are also in need of a loan once you have also receive your loan from Mr.Ramsey Dave i pray that God should give him long life.

    God bless him forever.

    Andy Perry

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    Mute Nancy Cage
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    Jan 21st 2016, 7:45 PM

    Good Day Everyone.
    Am here to share my testimony what a Good trusted man did for me. My name is Nancy Cage am from Michigan USA and I’m a mother of 3 kids and i lost my husband last year June 2nd and things where very hard for me and my children so when I was online to seek for a loan and i fall in the hands of scam, i was scam over $10,000.00 dollars, all my Husband access where taken away from us by his brothers, all hope was lost and i and my kids where sleeping in the street on till one faithful day when i met this friend of my who introduced me to this honest company who helped me get a loan in next 24 hours without any Daley, i will forever be grateful to Mr William Magnus , you can contact him via email: wmagnus29@gmail.com he did not know am doing this for him,but i just have to do it because a lot of people are out there who are in need off a loan. Contact with him ASAP

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    Mute Ennis
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    Jun 30th 2015, 11:41 PM

    Weil done Greece, the Americans are in panic Putin will sort them our. No more dollar as the world trade currency. The world has enough of America and it Zionist Allies

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