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As it happened: Brian Cowen comes out swinging at the banking inquiry

The former Taoiseach discussed his time as finance minister.

iPhone/iPad users: click here. Streams provided by HEAnet.

FORMER TAOISEACH BRIAN Cowen appeared before the banking inquiry this morning  to answer questions about his time as Minister for Finance.

We were liveblogging the lengthy morning and early afternoon session, but you can catch-up with all the important points and the very latest here.

Cowen starts with an apology: “I accept full and complete responsibility for our role in, and response to, [the] crisis.”

Cowen says the government was left “in no doubt” that burning bondholders would have meant no funding from the Troika, stating: “It was one or the other.”

In terms of the guarantee, he said it was a case of taking the least worst option available. 

Cowen on property prices, an issue of contention at yesterday’s hearing with Charlie McCreevy:

“When I was Minister for Finance, I shared the positive view of our prospects which was held by all the main research and international agencies. But contrary to what some are now trying to suggest, I was concerned about the potential vulnerabilities and risks arising from the rapid escalation in property prices which was a recurring theme in risk assessments.”

It has since been alleged that no action was taken by our Government to deal with these risks. This seems to be based on a view in some quarters it seems that I was in some way beholden to property market interests. This is simply not true. The facts are that prior to any signs of an emerging international crisis, there were four important actions taken to attempt to minimise the potential vulnerabilities in the banking sector related to the dependence on highly valued property.

The four actions taken were:

(i) The decision in December 2005 to abolish a very wide range of property based tax incentives.

(ii) The refusal by the Government to abolish or dramatically reduce stamp duty.

(iii) The decision of the Financial Regulator in early 2007 to increase the capital requirements on banks for speculative property lending from 100% to 150%.

(iv) The decision by the Government to allocate 1 per cent of GNP every year into a National Pensions Reserve Fund.

Here are Cowen’s thoughts on stamp duty:

In late 2006 and up to the General Election in June 2007, I was also the subject of sustained criticism for my decision as Minister for Finance to resist widespread demands to abolish or dramatically reduce stamp duty on property.

At that time, I accepted that the levels of stamp duty in Ireland were among the highest in the world and that this meant real consequences for people buying houses. While I agreed that some adjustments were appropriate, I realised that the high levels of stamp duty were a break on the escalation of property prices and acted as a disincentive to greater property speculation.

I felt that calls for the abolition or serious reduction of stamp duty were simply irresponsible in a context of rapid property price growth. I therefore strongly resisted such demands.

There is no doubt abolishing/reducing stamp duty at that time would have been politically popular. But it also would have increased the vulnerabilities of the banking system and the Irish economy to overvalued property. I therefore refused to go down this route. I was subject to much criticism for this. It is hardly surprising today that the cheerleaders for the abolition of stamp duty, or its radical reduction, are now silent on what would have been the impact on property prices or the resultant impact on the scale of banking crisis had I heeded their calls.

Hmmmm…

Cowen on *that* report by Morgan Kelly:

“I was not aware of contrarian views within the Department of Finance which differed in substance from the Department’s overall assessment.
Regarding external contrarian views, the most notable was a research paper by Professor Morgan Kelly of UCD which was published by the ESRI when it launched the ESRI Summer Quarterly Economic Commentary Review of the Irish economy in July 2007.

“In an interview on publication of the review, ESRI economist, Dr Alan Barrett made it clear that the ESRI did not share Professor Kelly’s prognosis that house prices in Ireland over the following 8 years could drop between 40% and 60% in value.

“Whilst the ESRI thought that house prices were overvalued by 15%-20%, it did not believe there was going to be a sharp fall in house prices. It was forecasting a house price decrease of 3% for 2007 with it stabilising the following year. The ESRI view was that economic growth would be 4.9% in 2007 moderating to 3.7% in 2008, a growth rate which they said was consistent with a degree in stability in house prices in 2008.

“The mainstream view remained amongst most commentators that house price increases had been underpinned by many factors including a strong economy, increases in employment and earnings, reductions in taxation and lower interest rates resulting from
participation in monetary union.

“Professor Kelly’s more pessimistic view proved to be more accurate as we now know although in his paper he saw the main macroeconomic effect of this as being higher unemployment due to reduced house building activity as prices fell over the period in question. He states in the paper that he remained of the view that Irish banks were well capitalised at the time.”

Those were the days, eh?

Cowen on his “appropriate” relationship with the banking and property sectors:

“The relationship of the Department of Finance with the banking sector and the property sector was primarily through their federations: the Irish Banking Federation (IBF) and the Construction Industry Federation (CIF)

“Individual banks dealt with the Department through contact with the relevant officials. My own interaction with banks was seldom and infrequent. Every year the Minister for Finance would receive many pre-budget submissions in writing from economic and social actors including the IBF and CIF. The main groups would be met every year by the Minister for Finance at meetings attended by officials where oral presentations would amplify the written submissions put forward.

“The incumbent Minister for Finance would always be a guest speaker at IBF annual dinners or an industry awards ceremony.”

In my time as Minister for Finance, I regarded my relationships with these two sectors as being appropriate. Their access to the Department was in no way different from how other organisations of economic importance were dealt with.

Cowen says he thinks he was experienced enough to become finance minister given the other portfolios he handled, but admits: “I’m not a qualified accountant, which probably is helpful.”

Committee chair Ciarán Lynch asks Cowen if then Taoiseach Bertie Ahern informed him ahead of time about an April 2007 Sunday Independent interview about changes he planned to make to stamp duty if Fianna Fáil was returned to power.

Cowen replies: “Absolutely. We were very close.”

Earlier, Cowen noted that he resisted increasing pressure to abolish stamp duty.

Cowen admits that a property bubble did develop during his time as finance minister, but said it was due to a number of factors – not just property tax reliefs.

Things are getting a bit feisty, as Cowen clashes with Fine Gael’s Kieran O’Donnell about why he repeatedly increased spending.

Cowen says he was looking at Ireland’s long-term future by investing in skills, people and infrastructure.

He said this resulted in the “most-educated generation in this country, thankfully who’ve been able to bounce back from the very calamitous situation”.

With hindsight, Cowen says “of course” he would have done things differently.

Cowen says times were good, and whoever was in power would have spent money.

Feelgood hit of the summer, anyone?

No? Okay.

When Joe Higgins asks Cowen about the Financial Regulator and IFSC, Cowen says Ireland’s problems began “on main street, not in the IFSC”.

Cowen stated that the government “didn’t set up a statutory framework that meant jobs couldn’t be done”, adding jobs weren’t done – for various reasons.

Screenshot 2015-07-02 at 11.19.55 AM

Higgins then accuses Cowen and co of “encouraging the worst excesses of the banks”.

The former Taoiseach strongly denies this.

Higgins quotes lines from a speech Cowen gave at the annual dinner of the Institute of Bankers in Ireland on 2 November 2006:

“Of course, not all of these brave new initiatives are successful. It’s a hard game, but there’s all to play for. Of course that’s easy for me to say because you are players on the field and I’m just an ardent supporter on the sidelines. I will continue to wear your colours.”

Screenshot 2015-07-02 at 11.23.36 AM

Higgins says Cowen, as Minister for Finance, wasn’t on the sidelines.

***GALWAY RACES TENT ALERT***

When Higgins raises the issue of Fianna Fáil’s infamous hospitality tent at the Galway Races, Cowen says some people viewed the tent as a cover for “collusion”, but this wasn’t the case.

“There was no big deal.”

You couldn’t pick a winner in the Galway Races tent, never mind anything else.

“You’re setting me up as some sort of guy who is promoting cowboy speculators … I don’t travel in those circles.”

As the committee meets in private session for a few minutes, let’s ponder this:

Fianna Fáil Senator Marc MacSharry asking if ministers have a tendency to be more probing when they are first appointed, but lose this streak somewhat a year or two into the job.

Screenshot 2015-07-02 at 12.53.10 PM

Cowen says he doesn’t think this is the case, denying he and the government were in power so long they were on “autopilot”.
MacSharry asks if ministers become too “reliant and trusting” of the advice of others, to which Cowen says people in government, like any organisation, soon realise whose advice they can rely on and who isn’t up to the job.

Cowen says the current government uses a system of “social dialogue”.

In his opening statement, Cowen said the Department of Finance didn’t see its role as “second guessing the work and assessments of the Central Bank and Financial Regulator’s office”.

Screenshot 2015-07-02 at 1.01.27 PM

“The Central Bank and the Financial Regulator’s office had significant resources in dealing with the supervision and regulation of the lending institutions.”

Screenshot 2015-07-01 at 4.29.12 PM

Again the line of questioning has turned to spending increases he introduced.

Yesterday, when Charlie McCreevy was asked if elections impacted the budget, he said: “Of course … We are politicians and we actually like to be re-elected.”

Screenshot 2015-07-02 at 1.11.24 PM

Cowen echoed this sentiment, noting that to claim otherwise would be “nonsense”.

He said Fianna Fáil’s approach was based on “spreading the benefits of prosperity to more people”.

Sinn Fein’s Pearse Doherty asks Cowen what he did to try and stem an “explosion of credit in the financial market” and the “massive increase in house prices”.

“What did you do to curtail the property bubble?”

Screenshot 2015-07-02 at 1.29.05 PM

In response, Cowen says it was the the Financial Regulator, not him, who had the statutory authority to step in in relation to lending growth “if they felt it necessary”.

He said he was glad when they acted and sorry they hadn’t done so sooner.

In terms of what he DID do, Cowen noted that he initiated an “orderly wind down” of property tax incentives.

How to lose friends and alienate people:

In response to Cowen saying his friends are not well known, Labour Senator Susan O’Keeffe asks him about the “frequent” visits of former Anglo director Fintan Drury to his office while in government.

He says they have been friends for nearly 20 years and didn’t discuss banking during those conversations.

As the inquiry is now in private session before breaking for lunch, we’re going to wrap up the liveblog. Thanks for staying with us.

You can follow @TJ_Politics for updates this afternoon.

Screenshot 2015-07-02 at 2.43.08 PM

Follow @TJ_Politics for updates on Twitter. 

Related: Was Brian Cowen a good finance minister?

Read: Banking inquiry suspended as Charlie McCreevy clashes with Pearse Doherty

Read: Patrick Honohan: Brian Lenihan was “very cross” before I made THAT phonecall

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86 Comments
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    Mute Paul FitzGerald
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    Feb 8th 2015, 8:18 AM

    If you are going to write an article like that, why not show the minimum wage across the EU?

    Even at €8.65, it is higher than Germany.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe_by_minimum_wage

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    Mute mrgillhouley
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    Feb 8th 2015, 8:21 AM

    our lowers classes have massive egos and sense of self worth, that is not the case elsewhere

    211
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    Mute Tallaght two
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    Feb 8th 2015, 8:30 AM

    Agreed Paul. We could have the highest minimum wage in Europe and this report would still be accurate…. if misleading. A more informed analysis would have shown then and now with changes over the last few years.

    As it happens Ireland has one of the highest rates in the EU already.

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    Mute fergalreid
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    Feb 8th 2015, 8:48 AM

    Strange omission of what you’d think would be an important piece of data!

    142
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    Mute John Henry
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    Feb 8th 2015, 9:00 AM

    The minimum wage in Spain is less than half what it is here

    112
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    Mute One Human Being
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    Feb 8th 2015, 9:08 AM

    Factor in the cost of living in each of these country’s also.

    138
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    Mute Dara Darkey
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    Feb 8th 2015, 9:09 AM

    The fact you refer to people as lower class due to the set rate of minimum wage speaks volumes.

    157
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    Mute mrgillhouley
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    Feb 8th 2015, 9:11 AM

    just calling it as it is dara. we have a class system no point denying it

    44
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    Mute Tommy
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    Feb 8th 2015, 9:18 AM

    A wiki report….
    Must be gospel

    39
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    Mute Rebecca
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    Feb 8th 2015, 9:20 AM

    Considering, for example, that you can buy a bottle of wine for €1.50 in Spain shows that it’s not really relevant what the minimum wage of a country is; but what the minimum wage is in relation to the tax on everyday items. The higher the minimum wage goes here the higher our taxes will go!

    120
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    Mute BERTIE
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    Feb 8th 2015, 9:45 AM

    You elitist pious twit

    69
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    Mute Mary Mc Carthy
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    Feb 8th 2015, 9:45 AM

    @ mrgillhouley You seem to think that you are above this so called ‘ lower class ‘ but I can bet you that there are people on min.wages that have more class that you appear to have.

    99
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    Mute BERTIE
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    Feb 8th 2015, 9:46 AM

    That’s for mrgillhouley

    42
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    Mute Sean O'Keeffe
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    Feb 8th 2015, 9:51 AM

    “Unfortunately, the real minimum wage is always zero, regardless of the laws, and that is the wage that many workers receive in the wake of the creation or escalation of a government-mandated minimum wage, because they lose their jobs or fail to find jobs when they enter the labor force. Making it illegal to pay less than a given amount does not make a worker’s productivity worth that amount—and, if it is not, that worker is unlikely to be employed.”

    Thomas Sowell, Basic Economics: A Citizen’s Guide to the Economy

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    Mute mrgillhouley
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    Feb 8th 2015, 10:31 AM

    whats wrong with saying we have a class system. its common knowledge

    17
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    Mute men in black hoods
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    Feb 8th 2015, 10:50 AM

    Stop acting the clown, come on now there’s a good lad.

    30
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    Mute Diarmuid
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    Feb 8th 2015, 10:57 AM

    The government reversed FF’s minimum wage cuts when the rest of the country were taking pay cuts.

    20
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    Mute Dylan Neary
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    Feb 8th 2015, 11:17 AM

    R ya mrgillhouley or mrs bucket, ya clown ya

    22
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    Mute bigmac
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    Feb 8th 2015, 11:46 AM

    A 1 litre bottle of milk here in Spain costs around 1.15, the minimum wage here is abysmal, 650e a month for 40 hours and after tax and social security its around 590 net, I pay more tax here than I did back in Ireland, I used to pay 240e tax and prsi in Ireland being single and living with my parents. Here I pay nearly 300 in taxes then factor in the cost of living to include mortgage, council tax,home insurance, life insurance, car insurance, water bill, electricity, property tax etc etc and it is wholly inadequate to have such a minimum wage.

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    Mute Kim Prylowski
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    Feb 8th 2015, 1:02 PM

    Ours is higher than Spain and the UK as well

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    Mute mrgillhouley
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    Feb 8th 2015, 1:05 PM

    your right Diarmuid, i thought it was a very bad move by Fg to increase the minimum wage by a euro per hour

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    Mute John Fogarty
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    Feb 8th 2015, 10:53 PM

    what does that make you.Your full of it.OUR LOWER CLASSES WHAT FCUK IN PLANET ARE YOU ON.

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    Mute One Human Being
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    Feb 8th 2015, 8:08 AM

    When you take into account shambridge or jobsbridge then the minimum wage drops to €4.48 per hour if your under 26 and €6.10 if your over. Ridiculous ripoff scheme that it is.

    158
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    Mute mrgillhouley
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    Feb 8th 2015, 8:12 AM

    experience in invaluable. job bridge is a fantastic scheme i have used it numerous times

    65
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    Mute Karen Leonard
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    Feb 8th 2015, 8:13 AM

    They are just making we don’t step above our station. …imagine

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    Mute Shane Kearney
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    Feb 8th 2015, 8:20 AM

    Must not have been too “invaluable”, if you managed to get through numerous underpaid- sorry, internships without a real job.

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    Mute mrgillhouley
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    Feb 8th 2015, 8:30 AM

    I have taken people on job bridge and will continue to as we all must do our bit to help out

    33
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    Mute Mark O'Hagan
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    Feb 8th 2015, 8:45 AM

    Not everyone is on a Jobbridge scheme.

    35
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    Mute One Human Being
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    Feb 8th 2015, 8:58 AM

    Correct not everyone is on scambridge but if they are factored into the “figures” then it would bring the minimum wage down to about €7.50 or thereabouts.

    46
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    Mute john rhymes
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    Feb 8th 2015, 8:58 AM

    Nice that you’re doing your bit. How many have you taken on in full employment?

    67
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    Mute mrgillhouley
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    Feb 8th 2015, 9:12 AM

    i gave one a job in the end, he as the only one who showed the necessary commitment that i desire in my human resources

    24
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    Mute TR909
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    Feb 8th 2015, 9:34 AM

    There’s a smell of bullshit of Gillhouley/realgael.

    73
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    Mute BERTIE
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    Feb 8th 2015, 9:49 AM

    Mrgillhouley you are a parasite, feeding off the misfortunate for your own gain, you make me sick

    59
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    Mute Brian Ward
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    Feb 8th 2015, 10:17 AM

    mrgill/real gael. I would be more inclined to read the scenario as thus. You “employed” people in your business (if that is even real) as free labour over 6 months. The full time job you offered was at minimum wage and you could only find one person so desperate for a job that they took it. The others realized that it was a job paying slave labour rates for what the job entailed.

    46
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    Mute mrgillhouley
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    Feb 8th 2015, 10:33 AM

    giving someone an opportunity to impress can never be seen as a bad thing.

    8
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    Mute Brian Ward
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    Feb 8th 2015, 10:40 AM

    Actually something else intrigues me Mr Gill. Why is your Twitter account suspended?

    27
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    Mute mrgillhouley
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    Feb 8th 2015, 10:51 AM

    do you not hide your twitter account? internet is awash with trolls i like to ensure my privacy. its basic internet security similar to VPNs etc.

    5
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    Mute Brian Ward
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    Feb 8th 2015, 11:21 AM

    Bollocks! There is a big difference between “protecting your tweets” and having your account suspended. More like someone reported you for multiple accounts used to troll the internet. No doubt you still have realgael what ever other personna you have made up on stand by. What surprises me is that The Journal facilitates people like you but then again that’s what gets people commenting on the site. I for one won’t be engaging you any more.

    29
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    Mute Mr Phil Officer
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    Feb 8th 2015, 11:48 AM

    The journal shouldn’t ban him, the more Gillhoully tows the FG on here the more people can see the contempt the party holds the “lower classes” in. Keep up the good work Gillhoully as the journals official FG spokesman, keep showing everyone what the party really thinks of its subjects.

    21
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    Mute bigmac
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    Feb 8th 2015, 12:01 PM

    Then @mrgillhoulley would you advocate capatilism as it should be? Zero interference from the state in a free market? No government support for big businesses or banks, if the business/company fails no bailouts or emergency funding? That if a company fails it gets replaced by another that is “better”. I imagine you have a business, imagine if like this recession the state did not recapitalise the banks and they pulled the rug from under your feet by going bust, none of your debtors can pay you for the same reason, you can’t pay your creditors. I think if that scenario happened you would be screaming for the government to interfere in the ” Free Market”.

    8
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    Mute mrgillhouley
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    Feb 8th 2015, 1:12 PM

    No, our version of capitalism works perfectly as it is, no need to change anything

    1
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    Mute bigmac
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    Feb 8th 2015, 2:08 PM

    The best of both worlds for the captain of industry, then for the current system you can give thanks to socialism which introduced many of the safeguards to guarantee a basic standard of living, I don’t know what sector you are involved in but more money in an employees pocket means more profits for private business,

    6
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    Mute lfcfan
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    Feb 8th 2015, 8:28 AM

    Why bother when you can have a social welfare lifestyle! !!!

    102
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    Mute Brian Ward
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    Feb 8th 2015, 8:45 AM

    Try living the SW lifestyle for 6 months and let me know how you get on if it’s so good in your opinion.

    73
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    Mute Mark O'Hagan
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    Feb 8th 2015, 8:46 AM

    What exactly is “a social welfare lifestyle”?

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    Mute mrgillhouley
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    Feb 8th 2015, 10:32 AM

    A social welfare lifestyle is a SF utopia- according to the indo today. i tend to agree

    17
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    Mute Glen
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    Feb 8th 2015, 8:14 AM

    If the minimum wage is increased, and I think it should be. You will see a knock on effect at the tills. Prices will increase. This is rip off Ireland after all.

    97
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    Mute mrgillhouley
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    Feb 8th 2015, 8:19 AM

    and jobs lost…

    56
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    Mute Robin Basstard
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    Feb 8th 2015, 9:00 AM

    mrgillhouley what would your idea of a decent living wage be?

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    Mute mrgillhouley
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    Feb 8th 2015, 9:14 AM

    living wage is a very subjective question so i would say simply that people should live within their means. on the minimum wage i simply don’t agree with putting restrictions on the prices of resources like labour

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    Mute Robin Basstard
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    Feb 8th 2015, 9:23 AM

    In a previous comment you stated “Our minimum wage is too high at present, it should be reduced if anything”
    If you had the power to do so what would you reduce it to? Go on give us a figure…I’m just curious.

    41
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    Mute mrgillhouley
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    Feb 8th 2015, 10:35 AM

    given the choice or ‘power’ as you say. they i would do the right thing and simply abandon it. if we must have one we should be rational about it and have it slightly lower than the european average to ensure we are competitive which is the most important thing

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    Mute bigmac
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    Feb 8th 2015, 11:51 AM

    The the salary of the managing director etc would be a multiple of the lowest paid employee, like say 10 times, you would see them campaign for higher minimum wage,

    11
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    Mute mrgillhouley
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    Feb 8th 2015, 1:10 PM

    You can’t rate or rank your core talent as a multiple in wage terms in relation to the periphery or nonstrategic labour. its not comparing like with like. talent costs big money and should be invested in, the others are simply a cost to be reduced. thats the harsh reality of business.

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    Mute mrgillhouley
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    Feb 8th 2015, 8:04 AM

    Our minimum wage is too high at present, it should be reduced if anything

    92
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    Mute Neal Ireland Hello
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    Feb 8th 2015, 8:07 AM

    That seems like a good argument until you remember there are actual living human beings involved.

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    Mute Declan Byrne
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    Feb 8th 2015, 8:12 AM

    Well said Neal. Even on minimum wage life can be very difficult.

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    Mute Declan Byrne
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    Feb 8th 2015, 8:12 AM

    Well said Neal. Even on minimum wage life can be very difficult.

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    Mute David Thomas
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    Feb 8th 2015, 8:13 AM

    Don’t feed the troll

    56
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    Mute mrgillhouley
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    Feb 8th 2015, 8:13 AM

    its an economies decision, everything else is just silly to even consider

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    Mute mrgillhouley
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    Feb 8th 2015, 8:14 AM

    paying someone the minimum wage can also be difficult.

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    Mute VinHeffer89
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    Feb 8th 2015, 8:30 AM

    If you cant afford to pay your staff you probably shouldn’t be in business.
    Your posts remind me on someone, “Mr Gilhouley”. Haven’t seen realgael around these parts in a while, now that I think about it……

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    Mute Lolo
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    Feb 8th 2015, 8:33 AM

    Oh boohoo Mrgillhouley my heart bleeds for you…

    Violin please!

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    Mute davedunne
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    Feb 8th 2015, 8:41 AM

    If RealGeal is banned how did he make a new account? I know you need a phone number to set up verify account. I know this because most my working class mates have been banned. Makes you think someone at the Journal runs some of them troll pro austerity account’s

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    Mute Random_paddy
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    Feb 8th 2015, 8:43 AM

    @ mrgill if your business can’t afford to pay the minimum wage, then your business model is the problem, not the employee

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    Mute VinHeffer89
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    Feb 8th 2015, 8:48 AM

    Use a computer, laptop or any other device that Pat Rabbitte’s Broadcasting Charge will soon be applied to, maybe?

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    Mute James Reardon
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    Feb 8th 2015, 8:52 AM

    How would we pay for all these new taxes and charges the government want us to pay then? seeing as they even want us to pay for water twice after all. You clown.

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    Mute mrgillhouley
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    Feb 8th 2015, 9:17 AM

    taxes are done on a percentage basis so it would be naturally adjusted, earn less pay less. charges are the same for everyone and rightly so we all use these very important resources they must be paid for.

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    Mute TR909
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    Feb 8th 2015, 9:32 AM

    Mr Gillfooly.

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    Mute CW
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    Feb 8th 2015, 10:09 AM

    The minimum wage would be fine if you didn’t have to pay USC, PRSI. A tax cut is what is needed. That clown from siptu is effectively asking that all minimum wage be brought into the 52% tax bracket, if your working 5 days a week. You’ll end up with less on €11:45 ph than you did on €8:65. Siptu are muppets with no calculators.

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    Mute Sean Bainbridge
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    Feb 8th 2015, 10:27 AM

    Well that’s not true

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    Mute mrgillhouley
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    Feb 8th 2015, 10:38 AM

    don’t look for sense from the unions….

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    Mute brian magee
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    Feb 8th 2015, 11:13 AM

    Neal,
    Adults shouldn’t be in the minimum wage. It should be students and those looking for pocket money and social money while living at home. It’s an entrant level pay.

    Rather than complaining and looking for the government to force the employers to grant a pay raise which could easily result in some colleagues being let go. They should look at upskilling and making them more valuable to their present or future employer. They should ask themselves that how is it that they are at the bottom of the food chain,

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    Mute bigmac
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    Feb 8th 2015, 2:29 PM

    You have just contradicted yourself in a reply to my post above, If the economies decide the market conditions then it cannot function with interference from the state because it creates an uneven playing field. A business then should survive only with a functioning business model, if it cannot adapt to the market conditions then it should cease trading and be replaced with a better business model. But as you said you were fine with the current business model of the state propping up banks and business then which is it? No state interference regards wages, but yes to receiving state support when its not profitable to conduct business?

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    Mute Tim Kearney
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    Feb 8th 2015, 4:07 PM

    langer

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    Mute Tim Kearney
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    Feb 8th 2015, 4:07 PM

    langer…..

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    Mute Tim Kearney
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    Feb 8th 2015, 4:08 PM

    ballbag

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    Mute Neal Ireland Hello
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    Feb 8th 2015, 8:02 AM

    There goes the old “We have to keep it low to stay competitive” argument.

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    Mute Josh Blake
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    Feb 8th 2015, 8:10 AM

    It doesn’t state the starting points at which this is measured!?

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    Mute david dickson
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    Feb 8th 2015, 2:29 PM

    It was €8.65 in 2005.
    I would like to see how much it has changed in other countries while ours is still €8.65.

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    Mute Colin Hunt
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    Feb 8th 2015, 10:30 AM

    What a stupid article, very poor reporting by The Journal. At no point do you give any proper comparison of what the actual wages are in real monetary terms.
    Saying Romania’s is up 10% while Ireland is 0% is the kind on sensationalist drivel usually kept for tabloids and will no doubt be used as part of the SIPTU’s debate for an increase here.
    For anyone interested in real statistics the Minimum Wage in Roman is €1.77 per hour (7.88 Leu), now, that sounds like a very different argument.

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    Mute James Dunne
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    Feb 8th 2015, 9:06 AM

    What’s the point of this article & what agenda is it trying to promote? Why no mention of what the minimum wage rates are in the countries that saw a large increase? Presumably the rate in Romania is still considerably less than here?

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    Mute Science of beer
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    Feb 8th 2015, 10:38 AM

    All in all a poorly researched and misleading article.

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    Mute mrgillhouley
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    Feb 8th 2015, 8:45 AM

    So if you have an opinion on the minimum wage that other don’t agree with then you are a troll? some complete morons on here but its best to just laugh at them :D

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    Mute TR909
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    Feb 8th 2015, 9:38 AM

    I laugh at you most. Your silly inane ramblings always put a smile on my face.

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    Mute mrgillhouley
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    Feb 8th 2015, 10:37 AM

    i dint know robots could smile. learn something new every day….

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    Mute TR909
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    Feb 8th 2015, 2:47 PM

    Try learning capital letters tomorrow :)

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    Mute tomeenoldstock
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    Feb 8th 2015, 9:20 AM

    The minimum wage is impossible to live on. Too many employers keep employees on the minimum wage even if they can afford to pay more. It should be €10/hour and allow the 8.65 in cases where companies prove they can’t pay more.

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    Mute Eoin O'Connor
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    Feb 8th 2015, 9:24 AM

    All capitalist economics are about, in one way or another, trying to coax and cajole the rich into doing the right thing for the economy (and the people) as a whole. Which they almost never do because it’s fundamentally against their class interest. Minimum wage is just one way in which they’re compelled to not just be unrelentingly selfish morons.
    This is the core problem with an economic system with private control of investment. Decisions over the production, distribution, and investment of goods and resources needs to be democratised; put in the hands of self-governing local communities and worker self-managed enterprises. Then, and only then, have we any hope of a decent economy that works for everyone; not just the wealthy and powerful.

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    Mute TR909
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    Feb 8th 2015, 9:39 AM

    The first intelligent comment I’ve read on this article!

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    Mute J
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    Feb 8th 2015, 10:17 AM

    Ha what a load of crap. You need to read up on your history.

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    Mute mrgillhouley
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    Feb 8th 2015, 1:14 PM

    communist crap

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    Mute Eoin O'Connor
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    Feb 8th 2015, 1:25 PM

    Anarchist actually. And not crap, common sense.

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    Mute mrgillhouley
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    Feb 8th 2015, 1:59 PM

    As i heard an ould fella say in the pub recently ‘pup, will you quit your nonsense your talking complete and utter scutter’. your post reminded me of that moment

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    Mute bigmac
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    Feb 8th 2015, 2:21 PM

    Ever heard of Sanchez Gordillo? He has implemented a similar system in his village in Andalusia, they produce labour intensive crops for a coop so everybody has a job, the crops go to be canned and preserved creating more jobs, to have your own house the council sells you the building materiales at cost price and you build your own house, his village doesn’t even need a local police force, its worked there for over 30 years.

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    Mute Martin Hogan
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    Feb 8th 2015, 10:37 AM

    It does raise the question of what the statutory minimum wage is supposed to do when the scandinavian countries dont have any. They are regularly cited as the fairest and happiest societies in the world.

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    Mute Chris O'Cinnsealach
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    Feb 8th 2015, 9:58 AM

    Here in France it went up by 8 cents, sadly not a huge amout extra in anyone’s pocket.

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    Mute bigmac
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    Feb 8th 2015, 11:49 AM

    In Spain it went up 3 Euros a month, so divide 3 by 160, the Pensions went up 0.25% per annum,

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    Mute Tomboktu
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    Feb 8th 2015, 9:17 AM

    Also relevant is the fact that the Irish minimum wage regime breaks European human rights law. The top rate is not the problem but the reduced rates for inexperienced workers:

    http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/monitoring/socialcharter/Conclusions/Prep/Ireland2014_en.pdf (pages 11 and 12)

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    Mute big willy
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    Feb 8th 2015, 10:12 AM

    Don’t worry, the minimum wage will go up next year … election year!

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    Mute Martin Hogan
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    Feb 8th 2015, 10:32 AM

    Probably true as we start laying the foundations for the next collapse with the return of auction politics.

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    Mute mrgillhouley
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    Feb 8th 2015, 1:14 PM

    i really hope FG are not that stupid to increase it

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    Mute TheLoneHurler
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    Feb 8th 2015, 11:17 AM

    To raise the minimum wage should be as equally repungent as to lowering it.

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    Mute CW
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    Feb 8th 2015, 11:40 AM

    Correct, you are allowed to earn €680 @ 20% tax, but the USC and PRSI would clobber you well before that, €11:45, would mean you are earning under the 20%, but you would be paying USC which would wipe out any extra you thought you were going to get, it’s tax cuts we need not pay rises. The last pay rise I got, went to the exchequer, along with 52% of my bonus. Shower of b&stards.

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    Mute John Fogarty
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    Feb 8th 2015, 11:02 PM

    MINIMUM SHOULD BE INCREASED AND THATS IT SOME PEOPLE JUST THINK OF THEMSELVES AND NO ONE ELSE WHICH IN THIS COUNTRY IS A REGULAR OCCURANCE.IVE BEEN ON MINIMUM WAGE AND I HAVE GONE UP TO HIGH WAGES HOW ABOUT WE PUT A CAP ON MAXIMUM WAGE LETS SAY 18 EURO PER HOUR,ITS SEEMS TO SOME PEOPLE WHO COMMENT ON THE JOURNAL THINK OF THEMSELVES ONLY AND ARE FULL OF DRIBBLE.

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    Mute Jack Bowden
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    Feb 8th 2015, 3:21 PM

    Maybe if the government increased minimum wages. People will offer to work for less than minimum wage for cash in hand and so they can keep their unemployment allowances.
    I think everyone is against people working while getting the dole but it is widespread.

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    Mute Michael Sands
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    Feb 9th 2015, 12:32 AM

    Berlin will hate to hear that?

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    Mute mrgillhouley
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    Feb 8th 2015, 1:17 PM

    FG have already raised the minimum wage by 1 euro per hour, definitely no need to be raising it any further

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