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Updated: 00.40
GREECE’S PARLIAMENT TONIGHT voted in favour of an austerity bill designed to prepare the country for a third Troika bailout.
Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras had urged lawmakers to vote Yes, after what he described tonight as “blackmail” at a European Council summit last week.
However, the Syriza leader could be facing a serious crisis after a number of high-profile MPs from Tsipras’ left-wing Syriza coalition rejected the bill, including former Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis and House Speaker Zoi Konstantopoulou.
The final vote was: 229 in favour, 64 against, and 6 abstentions.
32 Syriza MPs voted against the cuts, with six abstaining, out of the party’s total of 149 MPs.
Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras insisted he did not agree with the bulk of the draconian deal, that demands tax hikes, a pensions overhaul and privatisation pledges.
Speaking in the chamber before tonight’s vote, however, he said the country had no other choice if it wanted to stay in the euro.
We will not back down from our pledge to fight to the end for the right of the working people.
There is no other option but for all of us to share the weight of this responsibility.
Earlier this evening, rioters hurled petrol bombs at police who responded with tear gas as an anti-austerity demonstration outside the parliament turned violent.
Groups of youths among the more than 12,000 protesters smashed shop windows and set fire to at least one vehicle.
The clashes were the first significant violence at a protest since the left-wing Syriza government came to power in January promising to repeal bailout austerity.
Police said at least 50 people were arrested.
A video posted by RT this evening shows protesters and riot police clashing, while molotov cocktails and fire bombs are thrown on the streets of Athens.
Earlier today, Deputy Finance Minister Nadia Valavani resigned from government as it was due to pass the unpopular reforms essentially rejected by the public in a referendum 10 days ago.
“I’m not going to vote for this amendment and this means I cannot stay in the government,” she told reporters.
It came as one of the country’s chief creditors, the Washington-based IMF, warned Greece’s debt burden had already crossed the point of no return.
In a last-ditch deal struck on Monday, Tsipras agreed pension cuts, tax hikes and sweeping privatisations.
Hugo Dixon / TwitterSince 70% of Greeks say they support new deal, Tsipras runs little risk in holding new referendum to validate his u-turn
— Hugo Dixon (@Hugodixon) July 15, 2015
Finance Minister Euclid Tsakalotos told a parliamentary debate: “It’s a difficult deal, for which only time will show if it is economically viable.”
But speaker Konstantopoulou urged defiance against the creditors, saying MPs “have the right” to base their vote on the IMF report.
Under the latest bailout plan, eurozone governments will contribute between €40 and €50 billion, the IMF will contribute another major chunk and the rest will come from selling off state assets and the financial markets.
Tsipras has predicted “the great majority of Greek people” will support the deal, but admits he “cannot say with certainty” that it will be enough to stop a so-called “Grexit” until the final bailout agreement is signed.
‘Unsustainable’ debt
However in advice released late yesterday the IMF said Greece’s debts were “highly unsustainable” and they were now expected to peak at nearly 200% of GDP within two years.
Greece’s debt can now only be made sustainable through debt relief measures that go far beyond what Europe has been willing to consider so far,” it said.
The IMF said the closure of banks had been “extracting a heavy toll on the banking system and the economy” which had further plunged the country’s finances into a black hole.
It suggested the options left open to the EU included “a very dramatic extension” of grace periods on Greece’s loans in the order of 30 years on all European-sponsored debt.
Another alternative was direct funding injections to prop up the Greek budget or, probably most unpalatable of all, “deep upfront haircuts” – that is, writing off a significant part of the debts.
Frederik Ducrozet / TwitterSo the IMF, having epic-failed to measure fiscal multipliers, says Greece needs deep ufront haircut and that's a reason to torpedo the deal?
— Frederik Ducrozet (@fwred) July 15, 2015
In arrears
Greece late last month became the first developed country to slip into arrears on its IMF debt repayments when it missed a €1.55 billion bill that fell due.
It has since missed a second repayment, while another large sum will fall due to the European Central Bank on Monday.
The latest comments from the IMF suggesting wholesale debt relief is a must will put more strain on Tsipras, who was forced to turn to his pro-European opponents to get the reforms through parliament.
Contains reporting by AFP and the Associated Press, and additional reporting by Dan Mac Guill.
First published 10.27am
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I think it’s time that Greece just goes bankrupt. There is no way Greece can ever repay the debt and borrowing more won’t help. I am a supporter of the EU and euro but I think it’s time to try something new. The EU should get a 15 billion euro aid fund to give to Greece as the leave the euro and set up a new currency. that will help them pay for imports while they try to fix they economy and banking system. I think the best chance for the Greeks to get their country working and for the EU to get most of their money back in the long run is bankruptcy
@David Hearne. The point is that Greece IS bankrupt. All the negotiations and arguments are about how to manage their way out of bankruptcy.
It should.
The IMF document today where it slapped Brussels around the ears really marks the first admission that the Euro is not working.
If Greek banks had written off their bad loans in 2010 and French and German banks accepted their losses from their bad loans then this crisis would not have dragged on for 5 years.
Instead the money had to be flushed back in to French banks because they were in trouble.
The Greek bailouts were all about the Euro and defending it, economic sense and what would work became 2nd.
David
How can you possibly support the EU and euro currency after what’s happened in the last few years? The whole thing is one giant Ponzi scheme
@Ben Gunn: it is, but someone needs to make the troika and the rest of the eurozone admit it.
So now the imf are talking debt writedowns as the only realistic way for Greece to move forward, this after they humiliated Syriza first to put them in their place but with also most importantly for the troika ,a firesale of all state assets . They really have Greece by the cojones now so they dont mind writing off some of the debt or extending the payments, mission accomplished….now onto the next poor unfortunate nation whose citizens will become enslaved for the benefit of the few. Long live uber capitalism!!
Such rubbish – do you even know what a Ponzi scheme is?
You’re not the David I was talking to but yes I know what a Ponzi scheme is. It’s kind of frightening that there’s people like you who don’t yet realise it yet.
Talk us through how the Euro currency is a Ponzi scheme
Its all fixed we are saved.
Bad loans in Italy’s banking system have increased by roughly 14.9% this year.
They might well vote no tonight. No country can recover from 200% debt to gdp ratio as predicted by the IMF based on the current harsh EU proposed deal.
cut them loose
Greeks don’t like been forced to pay taxes.
Let them get on with their own lives. They put themselves into this situation – I couldn’t be ar**ed listening to the tax dodging whingers any longer.
The one lesson from our history in similar circumstances would be the treaty of versailles. The complete blame put on Germany and the unrealistic reparations lead to the rise of nazi germany. There is a very dangerous precedent set tgat the measures imposed on greece will lead to the rise of a far more sinister grouping. Europe is at a precipice the deal that Syriza have signed up to is completely unsustainable – i cant understand it. They cannot possibly meet the demands imposed regardless how they got there – the mismanagement over the past few weeks have lead to a severe punishment. Europe needs to step back andhelp greece through this or an ISIS type organisation will emerge in greece.
I can only think that The greek prime minister has been told that if greece sign this that quietly they will get a write down.. To do so publicly would mean other countries would want a renogotiation… If that is not the case its the end of the european project and peace in europe.
France have played the Atlee role in this.. The 1938 conference.. Peace in our time etc.
The irish government may have just been complicit in perhaps the greatest disaster to have befallen europe. Greece have messed up royally but as democrats in a federal (effectively) europe we cannot support this deal.. Its a terrible endictment on the european project – i believe that greece should have negotiated six months ago cos thatdeal was 30 billion less.. Now its just insane. We cannot impose greek people with a deal that their stupid gov have caused. Germany are looking for blood that none of us can stand over.. Left or right whats right is right and this deal is humiliation.
The key thing is though, the euro is working for Germany
Kick them out, better include us in that. If they go then we’ll be up someday as well, unless we give up the corporation tax.
Yates my good man I think you are on the money on this one the can is just being kicked down the road,a short road that is.
That is what Varoufakis compared it to ,Yates -and- he also compared it to ‘torture’ and a ‘military coup’ .
Sergeant,
Very well said. From a socialist perspective, the objective of the EU political and financial elites was never to find a sustainable economic solution for Greece. The goal rather was to protect the Eurozone financial system and this was achieved by transferring the losses onto the national balance sheets of Greece, Ireland, Spain Portugal etc.
Since Syriza entered government this year, the primary goal of the EU has been to remove them from power via an economic coup. All pretense of European solidarity, partnership and democracy has been dispensed with. The message is very clear. Left governments which try to protect the welfare of the majority of their people will not be tolerated. This second objective is also showing progress as Syriza disintegrates.
Syriza’s mistake was believing they could appeal to the better nature of a rampant Eurozone capitalist elite.
It’s the modern form of slavery isn’t it keeping people in debt all their life’s to figures on a computer screen!!!
Well said. What we are witnessing in Greece is economic class warfare being played out in front of our eyes and in the Eurozone the capital owners have found the perfect field of battle as democracy is irrelevant when monetary sovereignty has been ceded.
The Euro is a monetary trap which facilitates the transfer of wealth from the working class to a capitalist elite. This is what we see occurring in Greece now with their national assets and infrastructure being annexed for the neo liberal vultures. The same process can be observed particularly in Ireland, Spain, Portugal and across all the countries of the Eurozone.
The transfer of wealth in reflected in mass unemployment, decimated health, education and social services, increasing pension ages, privatization of national infrastructure, water charges, home taxes, and a thousand other attacks on the living standards of ordinary people.
The ECB is the monopoly issuer of the Euro and creates at will the money which is being extracted with menaces from the Greek and Irish people and which is gutting our economy and society. The rising tide of poverty and misery across the Eurozone is entirely unnecessary.
Rather it is a deliberate policy choice of neoliberal governments and institutions which dominate the EU. They continue to insist that systemic failure of speculative financial capitalism in 2008 will be borne by ordinary people of Europe and not by those who caused it.
There is no lack of any of the real resources (e.g. energy, food, material to build housing etc) to meet the human needs of the citizens of the Europe or anywhere in the developed world. (Or indeed the rest of the planet if the advanced industrial nations would lead the way instead of exploiting the third world.) Neither can there ever be a shortage of money at a macro level. So all the ingredients are present to solve the economic and social crisis in Europe and elsewhere.
This is economic vandalism on an epic scale being perpetrated on Greece, Ireland, Spain and Portugal for the benefit of a corporate elite under the manifestly failed ideology of neo liberalism. Solidarity with the Greek people in their struggle against this monstrous injustice.
Coddler do you have a site I can go to and read more of your post as I find them very interesting and informative?
You’re on it.
The adults in the room have been saying this all along whilst European politicians has been dressing up in the Emperors clothing. Looking over Irish media they have had a lot to answer for in offering real critical narrative regarding our own governments position in supporting Germany, although some gets through the headlines get changed! This article was called IMF stuns Europe with calls for massive debt relief (which was nearer the mark) to “European commission says re profiling of debt possible but no write- off) we are been spoon fed . . . . .
james Goodyear
Coddler draws his understanding (as do I) from the Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) – a broadly ‘Post Keynesian’ School of economics (as is Prof Steve Keen, head of Economics at London Kingston, if you’ve seen him?).
The main academic centre for MMT is University of Missouri, Kansas City (UMKC), their blog here:
http://neweconomicperspectives.org/
Their associates include Prof Bill Black, former US Financial regulator uniquely credited with jailing around 1000 bankers for fraud in the US following the Savings and Loan banking collapse. Also Prof Michael Hudson, who began his career in Wall St. in the 1960s and knows every one of their scams inside out…
Probably the best MMT blog for in depth, very well explained and referenced commentary on present events (globally) is Professor Bill Mitchell whose blog is here: (it was where I learnt most)
http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/
Absolutely key concepts are understanding Money, not as ‘commodity’, but ‘scorecard’, Sectoral Balances and Functional Finance (cf Abba Lerner)
Hope this is of interest?
In the words (on youtube interview) of career Central Banker (Belgium), now Professor of International Finance, aknowledged expert and author of many books on Monetary Systems – Bernard Lietaer…
“… academically, MMT has never been challenged…. from what I see, they are right… ” (And Lietaer’s view is still accurate.)
Is Ireland not in the same predicament sure?
we are, but we’ve successfully buried our heads in the sand. nothing to worry about until it explodes all around us in a few years.
Comparing this to slavery is insulting. Very few slaves ever got to retire in their mid fifties, evade taxes like there’s no tomorrow and cry “democracy” when asked to pay their debts.
protesters at European union house now, calling for an end to ttip agreement, anti water charges protest at the dail at 6 pm. let’s show the government we have had enough
Let’s be clear about one thing we now know with complete certainty concerning these last months of Troika ‘negotiations’ with Greece…
At NO TIME has the Troika been concerned with *economics* arguments….
This episode has been 100% about Power politics, about as nasty and undemocratic as it gets in Europe, in my living memory (I’m 60).
The Troika members intention has been to crush Syriza, and send a severe warning to all other EU citizens that voting in politicians who actually DO try to represent (majority, Labour) citizens’ interests, over those of Capital owning elites, will be brutally suppressed economically.
It is warfare, or terorism, by economic means, made possible by using a Foreign Currency, operated by a Foreign Bank (the ECB).
#ThisIsACoup has been trending massively…. it is an entrely fair assessment. A Coup D’Etat where the weapon is the ECB freezing out Greeks’ banks and electronic *payments* system. No modern society can last very long without money allowed to flow.
People should realise that even in the structures of power, not every technocrat agrees with the massively politicized leadership of their Institutions.
The IMF is a perfect example…
Numerous times over the last few years, their research department economists have produced reports saying one thing, only for slimeball Lagarde (and others) to either ignore it, or imply the exact opposite in speeches. (eg on ‘Fiscal Multipliers’ … where the IMF research demonstrated Austerity had caused serious GDP contraction in every case)
@James, I don’t think he got the irony.
Ben
I considered that likely, but most of you are in dire need of some MACRO economics education, otherwise your only source is yer hole.
And there may be others reading who’d like to educate themselves.
Have a nice day :)
Let’s be clear, the IMF need 0.9% interest to operate, the remaining funds are supplied by its member nations. They are currently charging Greece around 3%, a massive profit that ithey have no mandate to collect, I see no refunds to the members. The IMF was created to provide international financial stability, somewhere it has become a private profit making business. International financial instability has become a requirement for them to thrive, we will reap what we sow.
The modern form of slavery is in fact, slavery. Though crippling debt isn’t much fun either.
@ Mike …thanks I want to TRY and understand a bit more on the subject!……..
Although I personally think the powers that bee are petrified of the whole house of cards crashing down, and that would be no good for anyone……don’t know if that fits into any economic theory? …except mine !!
Neal there’s going to nobody retiring in their mid 50′s in Greece, Ireland or any country indebted to the Troika . The slavery is just beginning , In years to come it will become part of the new Greek Mythology where future generations will reminisce on past times…” once upon a time all Greeks retired in their 50′s and lived a carefree life until the three headed beast ,the Troika , came and took it all away”…..
Just a quick post to inject the news from overseas – it appears to offer readers a better narrative of whats going on than the Irish Media.
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/444a0bc8-2a46-11e5-8613-e7aedbb7bdb7.html#ixzz3fug4c500
Indeed the Irish Media is sitting up a bit more today, come on Journal.ie
@ Ben, no he must have missed that lecture in the imaginary economics course he’s studying.
Why don’t you go over to Greece on a long holiday to support their economy, do us all a favour:)
Modern day slavery you say…. By giving them another €85 Billion.
It’s very simple, German banks pushed credit to other banks, mainly national banks in the countries involved. And said banks pushed credit onto others, with the don’t mind the small writing on the bottom agenda.
Said big banks took a risk hence they are called bond holders. And they did it all over Europe.
Now they’ve lost their bet.. But they are still demanding their initial takings.
Paddy Power would be long closed if this was the normal carry on, but our current government think it’s ok to pay a failed debt, fools.
You take a risk, you lose, you lose.
No, it’s a modern form of stupidity, live within your means, collect your taxes and eliminate rampant corruption. Alright already!
Kieran you are correct but do you want to punish old age pensioners in greece for the sins of politicians? lets be clear here. do we side with profiteers and faceless banks or do we say its time to stop punishing ordinary decent people, most who have worked hard all their lives and paid taxes. who paid the price in ireland when things went belly up. the capitalist system is built on survival of the fittest. why are banks not allowed to fail? why when a capitalist system fails should they then introduce a socialist solution to rectify the problem…why should private debt be placed on me and you?
Sean do not delude yourself, neither system cares about the little people, one chases the accumulation of wealth, the other holds all hostage to ideology.
We did not let the banks fail because without money, barter is messy.
The majority of Irish debt incurred since the crash was due to the difference between gov spending and tax, not the banking crises.
I am a capitalist, not because I’m a huge fan, but because it’s currently the best system available.
Kieran,
your points are valid but I just can’t agree with a nation suffering for the capitalist system…capitalism as we know it is dead, it died when the first failing bank was saved, we now live in a neoliberist society
Great to see so many Irish people with amnesia. Forgetting that we had to accept debts on the sovereign for corrupt and insolvent banks. While we also had a large budget deficit and needed to borrow to pay for frontline services, we had to accept a much larger debt in return. Much like if I borrowed a tenner for my lunch from you and your terms were for me to pay you back and your electricity bill on top.
@Mike Hall – Well said. I agree and if its true then I fear for the future. I don’t know if there are enough people in this country that have the fight in them to oppose this and take back their country, their identity and their lives.
Got a great idea lets Kick the Germans out of the Euro that’ll fix everything,Oops forgot the Germans pay for most of everything.
James if you wish to read more of Coddler’s thinking I would suggest you try this link
https://disneyland.disney.go.com
Lazlo
What the Greeks showed us above all in their referendum, voting 61%+ for OXI! (NO) in the face of a massive media onslaught of unprecedented raw fear mongering, is that lots of us – perhaps even a majority – are not swallowing the Koolaid any more.
Primarily on the web and social media, we are finding the Truth and sharing it with each other, more than ever before in. (And it’s only just begun.)
The whole rotten system of neoliberalism, control by elites etc. ALL depends massively on propaganda control via traditional media. (Going back to the days of Edward Bernays in the 1920s.)
It also takes a crisis situation for people to want to find the Truth.
But as we’ve seen, the elites’ neoliberal agenda is creating those for us by the bucketload.
I already see massive momentum… within that there will be ebb and flow, but its direction, and the force of history is clearly behind.
After this episode in Greece, despite the appearance of defeat now, a huge hidden victory for humanity lies beneath. :)
Its not supposed to work. The greek people were to be thrown to the wolves by germany to send a clear message to other european states, no more disobedience or we will use our banks to destroy your country like we used our tanks in the 40′s.
Tsipras himself said yesterday that he doesn’t believe in the deal, the IMF, THE BLOODY IMF, are stating that it will not help the greek economy, and anyone with an iota of common sense will agree. The remedy for crippling, unsustainable debt, is not to pile on more debt.
60% of greeks don’t pay taxes. Time they wised up jammin
Any sign of MK47 there Baz.
Thats a tremendously round number there baz, do you have a source?
Connolly. It’s just not Germany. You might want to include Finland, all the scandavians, etc. The only real voice that is not pushing through is France
Baz, that is the same Greece with a higher GDP and longer working hours than Ireland. don’t just follow the line that they are lazy takers, they are not.
People think that Ireland will not face this someday.
We have private debt levels that are among the worst in the world and a state debt that remains beyond sustainable.
Do not be surprised to see unprecedented social upheaval in our lifetime in Europe starting with Greece. Normal citizens would have to be out of their mind to accept a lifetime of servitude to pay back financial institutions whilst witnessing zero benefit in their own lives year after year. The EU have left the pot boiling on the hob and forgotten to turn it off,it’s only a matter of time now.
Let them eat cake
You know that things are really, really bad when the IMF has to step in as the voice of reason.
Well Gearoid Irish unemployment has fallen by one third under the Troika’s stewardship.
And how many have left thw country under the troikas stewardship?
Recent survey, over 50% of people that left Ireland had jobs, they left because hight tax.
Nearly Kieran they left because wages were too low
The Eurozone doesn’t do growth, a few parts do but most of it does not.
That is what will kill it, not little Greece.
In case you didn’t notice, high tax has that effect on wages.
this is ridiculous, Merkel and co need to get down of their high horses, our clown can lead the horses into the stable and feed them.
What’s the point of them voting. Their government won’t listen to them anyway just like their last vote.
Finally the Yanks (IMF Board) step into the picture…hopefully this will put a stop to the nonsense of continued heaping of debt upon debt that can never be paid back. The only logical solution is a massive write off and a clear understanding that Greece need to get their act together fiscally, IMO….
Will Yanks right off the debt given they control IMF? I seem to recall it was Yanks/Geitner that were insistent that Ireland not burn bond holders. I’d say deeper politics at play here.
Yes i agree, deeper politics definitely involved, but at the end of the day anyone with an ounce of sense can see that heaping debt upon debt can’t work, it simply can’t. If this goes through you will see the same thing happening again in 6 months to a year. Europe will still be unstable, markets will be jittery etc etc. This is what the States wants to avoid, they want/need a stable Europe, hence they are piping up now before it’s too late.
Agree. But what I think US wants to avoid is their banks carrying the can down the line and they’d rather have that foisted on European taxpayer in the same way Geitner insisted Irish taxpayer carry the can instead of bond holders. Some institutional investors are always getting protected one way or the other.
It shouldn’t be hoisted on any tax payer.
America bailed out its banks with QE money and other supports.
The U.S. Govt., whatever the party would never accept private debt on to public shoulders.
It goes against every capitalist bone, it goes against EU laws and treaties as well but as we all have seen they are applied or ignored depending on the need.
Even if they continue with the reforms and much of it should be implemented they will still be in a currency that does not suit their economy.
There are well run countries in the Euro that have awful growth, debt crises and rampant unemployment.
How much more damage to Europe’s future has to happen before this tragedy can be buried.
John
It’s only partially a question of countries in the Euro with ‘unsuitable’ economies.
At the macro level money must circulate.
When you have a structure based on a few powerful countries being perpetual net exporters (like Germany)…. other countries (yes, less able to compete) must, by accounting identity, similarly become net importers.
When they all use the same currency, export/import balancing cannot happen. Once the money recycled round as debt has reached its sustainablity limit, extracting ever more from a countries ‘working capital’ (circulation) results in a downward spiral of GDP contraction (relative to where it should be with natural growth thru’ population increase etc).
This is exactly what economists like Wynne Godley said would happen, commenting as far back as 1992.
It was always going to happen at the first cyclical downturn – the Banks’ pyramid bust just put downturn on steroids.
Just as in Ireland and other countries before the Euro, when we share the same currency we must allow transfers to poorer regions and counties from the more (monetarily) productive regions.
It’s a part of what binds us as a nation.
Without it it would fall apart quickly as a social and political entity, just as we see happening now in Europe.
In Ireland, as in most countries, we do not even measure the macro transfers from region to region.
Mike, nail on head. No more to say really.
Look on the bright side as Greece gets to fight another day. Things might get a bit more expensive but there are still opportunities for the country to improve itself.
Chris, be careful positivity isn’t welcome here. The shinners thrive on misery.
Have either of the two of ye bothered to read what the IMF have stated?
I’m not excusing Syriza’s tactics during the last month, but I find the situation in Europe unacceptable to democracy or morality. A series of policy positions are adopted to try to convince Europe and the rest of the world that the situation is manageable and that it can all be put right. It’s economic garbage and it does the exact opposite of inspiring confidence: it creates the gravest concerns about Europe’s leaders, the European Commission and the ECB and most of all its economy. The fact that the IMF appears to be the most rational and economically literate institution involved says everything. And all for what? So 1% of the Earth’s population can own 47% of it’s wealth. How pathetic are those 1%?!!
I am not impressed with the cv of Wolfgan Scheuble. Have a read. No wonder the Euro is in trouble. Back street local politics does not work in managing a €10TLN EuroZone economic area. Failure to lead. Euro built on poor foundations.
Had to believe the IMF is more in tune with reality than the Austerity Gestapo in Frankfurt.
Charles
The IMF is somewhat Schitzophrenic. It’s research dept. try to maintain some modicum of integrity, despite its politicised leadership’s desire to keep to the neoliberal script of the Capital elites.
The IMF leadership fell in line with political pressure from the EU, they wanted debt write offs, restructuring, banks to take losses. What used to be called capitalism but in today’s deranged European politics is called loony lefty.
“they” refers to the IMF teams that go in.
Look at what Ashoka Mody, the head of the IMF team here has said about the deals and EU handling of Greece
He has torn Brussels and Berlin apart on this.
Most of the leading economists have, and now the full IMF.
what i find strange was Lagarde’s complete silence during negotiations last Sunday and now the IMF issues this in retrospect?? She could have reduced a lot of the pressure for Tsipras by indicating there and then that bailout 3 could not happen without debt relief. I wonder who this was leaked to first and by whom?? Did SHE leak this or is this IMF’s way of letting us know she is about to go..OR did she purposely ‘bleib stumm’ until it was clear that Syriza might survive the offending reform plan in parliament?
The IMF are now saying that Debt relief is the only way. Are they going to take the lead and write off the money Greece owes them? Bet your arse they won’t. But yet they expect European taxpayers to foot the bill. Always nice to be generous with other peoples money.
The IMF only looks at what can work or what does not work.
Doesn’t think will work, or doesn’t want it to work
But Enda the school teacher said this deal was going to allow them to prosper.
Why can’t we have a vote in the Dail on committing Irish taxpayers’ money to Greece?
Don’t get me wrong. I am all for putting our money where our mouth is and supporting the poor Greeks and their pensions but I think it should be open and transparent.
Lots of other small Eurozone states are doing this so why are we so willing to stump up for Greece and no questions asked?
How NOT to run a government 1.01!
We could look forward to similiar levels of political incompetence and financial mismanagement should Sinn Fein ever (God forbid) lead an Irish government.
Straw Camel Back !
This has all the hallmarks of a German plan to fund its aging population pensions into the future.
I think the seeds of this were planted along time ago by intentional reckless lending by German banks. This worked well for Germany as they then sold their overly priced wares to the same people they lent to and created asset bubbles across the PIIGS.
Now they are coming in with baseball bats to collect. Give the PIIGS penny on the euro of the true value of sovereign assets ( removes ability to workout of debt down the line) and enslave the people to a multi- generation of tax to repay debts.
As the only ones in EU with cash they buy up everything cheap – this will find their pensions in Germany for generations off the sweat of others.
Greece might be financially bankrupt but is the Germans who are morally bankrupt in the way they have handled this and what they are forcing on Greece.
We would be well advised to have a plan B ourselves – sterling or dollar.
The Greeks want to have their cake and eat it. On the one hand the speaker of the Parliament points to the IMF report on the debt being unsustainable as an argument to vote against. On the other hand the Greek economy is dependent on foreign loans. So which is it to be? Tsipras does his credibility no favours with his interview condemning the deal as “blackmail” while having only just signed it. They want more loans but they don’t want to repay them.
They can’t be that skint if they’re throwing away petrol….
Nothing a good old protest with a few petrol bombs can’t sort out!!
Merkel and co want it to crumble and get in a government that will lick her arse,like we have.
Despite wearing nice shirts and farah slacks Greeks just like the hippies and travellers just dont pay tax.
When the IMF feel like writing off their own portion of the debt, then they can talk about “debt relief”.
Also, the IMF have made clear again and again that the biggest reason Greece is in this mess are the actions of the Greek government over the last 6 months. Because of Syriza’s stupidity in desperately pursuing a nominal debt write-off that wouldn’t have particularly benefited them in the medium term *anyway* we are all going to end up paying far more, and the Greek people are going to suffer far more harshly.
No one wins.
Nothing to do with successive right wing govts who fir decades landed greece in this mess in the first place?? of course not, syriza single handedly destroyed a greek economy in 6 months. The troika and the eu members who wanted to give syriza a public slapdown is who have left greece in a bigger mess than it was already in and now the imf are saying exactly what syriza said , that it is not possible through austerity measures alone for greece to recover. You can spin it anyway you want, but syriza represented the best interests of the people who voted them in and for that they were punished. Welcome to modern day faux democracy….vote for who or what you like, but you will do what the financial dictators tell you to
Chancellor George Osborne refuses to give a billion towards the Greek bailout. Will our government force us to pay?
The greeks refused to accept responsibilities for their mistakes, thats the real issue here whether people want to admit it or not
Yeah ok but they didn’t throw any water balloons!
Its about 30 minutes to midnight in Greece.
The EU’s so called leadership,both elected and non-elected,appear to be completely detached from its middle class and working class citizens.Their treatment of Greece is a disgrace.Burdening them with more debt,when they can’t even pay their current debt.Despite all the over-paid EU politicians and officials who,’by the way’ !!!,’negotiated’ the deal to ‘save’ Greece !!!! there was not one genuine effort made to address the serious issue of debt burden in the EU.With ‘friends like that’ who needs enemies.Greece was targeted for bullying,so while all this was going on,Greek citizens were left without items such as life saving medications etc etc.The EU was completely obvious to this.If it was anywhere else in the world,humanitarian action would be mustered.I expected far more from the Irish Government than to side with Germany,but what would you really expect from them when they would’nt even stand up for their own Irish people with regard to our own imposed sovereign debt.All we are getting is ‘can-kicking down the road’ strategies of fantasy.
who ever thought that Germany would be a contending world domination country again
What a mess! Now austerity will really begin for the greeks! Will we be contributing to this bailout?
wait until their 4th and 5th bailout, looking at some of the posts here playing the blame game look like the sort who are still blaming their parents for their mistakes in life the only thing is they are aged 50 and still living at home with mammy and daddy.
In 1905 the German Colonial Government in East Africa {Now Tanzania } imposed excessive taxes on the native population Theu rebelled against “Austerity
On instructions from Berlin the Colonial Army in The “WAR “killed 80,000 and destroyed a further 300,000 by burning their homes and their crops
Thet did the same in South West Africa also a colony now {Namibia} where the Herero People were violently opressed.The Governor Gen Trotha ordered the “annihilation of the Hereo People “as stated in the German Military report of 1906 The drove the survivors of the shooting including women and children into the Omeke Desert where they died of starvation, This was how the Gemans dealt with anti austerity groups 100 years ago They are much more subtle theses days These Autrocities only came into German Consciousness when they appeared in Japanese school books in 2005
I think they were ‘bounced’ into the decision
Every sympathy for Syriza and the ordinary decent people of Greece but like like Napoleon’s grande army at Waterloo, they fought well but have finally been defeated on this issue.
However, just as Napoleon’s legacy to history will always be remembered so too will Syriza’s stand against the Capitalist banking system that caused that country’s economic collapse in the first place. Reckless lending by greedy bankers in search of bigger bonuses with little or no regard for the consequences of their venal actions, I think?
So called ‘financial experts’ my arse, they should be all shot with balls of their own shite!
have your say