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my wife had pretty serious complications with our sons birth last year so I took him while she spent weeks in hospital. Due to pre birth complications I used up most of my holidays and because I wasn’t entitled to pay of any sort I had to take four weeks unpaid. I dint believe it’s necessary to take a year off for both parents but certainly some grace should be given to fathers. If a father dies a runner they will take him to court for maintenance but they give no weight or consideration to the first few months when a father can be most helpful
I completely agree, no one knows what sort of complications are going to come with child birth, dad’s should have the option to take time off without touching their holidays.
Same here but I guess we are just not that important huh?
One of the things which sickens me is that people in the public service are paid to do a job and then drop everything to take maternity leave. We had a situation before last Christmas where we were discussing tourism improvements with a lady from the county council, she promised us the sun, moon and stars and would get back to us within days.. Months passed and still no reply, only to find out that she had taken maternity leave….honestly is this any way to run a country.
Absolutely, in Sweden parents get 480 days of parental leave to split between them or to take solely and that includes those adopting. It is vital to ease the gender divide and I have no doubt there are a lot of single fathers out there who feel let down by the lack of support and would welcome this
All this does is introduce a massive inefficiency and cost in the economy of about 3%. Ultimately it’s paid for by the tax payers, the very people getting the “paid” leave. Scam.
It doesn’t actually since any woman in Sweden when she applies for a job or when returning from maternity leave will be asked (and most importantly not fear that her answer will impair her job prospects) if she plans to have any more children. If she does the employee hired to shadow her position will be retained, creating more jobs and leading to happier work and home environment and keeping more women in the work place. Supporting families is good for the economy, they’re the ones raising the next generation and if that generation has been forced out of work or education that only serves to widen the poverty gap.
How is it paid for by the tax payer? I’m sick of this bullshit. Your tax doesn’t cover our social welfare system! Most of it is pumped back into the system when spent! Your tax goes to pay off our debt to Europe. Get angry at the guys at the top not the bottom. They are the ones taking your tax!
The top 5% of taxpayers pay 25% of tax. If the tax payer isn’t paying for “paid” leave, who is?
Vincent, what’s that part of spending that gets pumped back in to the system called again? VAT isn’t it? Guess what the T stands for
And in addition, there is additional payments of support to parents where the leave is shared equally in Sweden.
It’s all about equality people, what women get,men should get also.
Absolutely. A father is as much a parent to the child as a mother is and should have equal opportunities to actually parent that child.
A man does not carry a child for 9 months. There is no physical recovery involved for a man. I don’t know any woman vehicle springs back emotionally and physically from pregnancy and birth. It can take months. This is part of the reason for maternity leave and why women deserve longer off than men. This is one situation where the sexes are not equal.
Vehicle should be who. Sorry for weird auto correct.
A father and a mother. Not 2 fathers. Not 2 mothers. It’s not about children, is it?
All very valid points and I accept them, but what about the father bonding with his new child or helping out the new mother? if a new mother has a C section and can’t do a lot of things on her own for 6 weeks, the father can be invaluable.. or if the mother suffers from post natal depression, having that extra support can be massive.
In the name of… you lost, get over it, move on, nobody cares anymore
And Carol would it not be helpful to have the father there to co-parent and help during that?
@Carol “there’s no physical recovery for a man”.. I don’t know what your circumstances are but pregnancy and the birth is a stressful and exhausting time for both parents. I’m not suggesting it’s equal in any way, as I’ve seen how brutal it is for a woman, but to imply there is no effect on the man and thus he deserves nothing is 100% wrong.
In most cases the man is watching the person he loves in terrible pain and danger during the birth, which is traumatic enough without much sleep for weeks on end before the birth (there’s 2 people awake all nte), followed by even less sleep for 6 months after the birth with the new born. It’s not ‘labour’ for a man but it’s physically and emotionally exhausting and deserves to be recognized by the state and by women in general.
Now I’m sure some men don’t take anything to do with the pregnancy, birth, or new born but I’d hope that’s the exception these days.
Ps. I Year is daft for a men, but 1 year shared between partners is about right.
Carol, they are not reducing maternity leave so why should it matter if a man gets extra paternity leave?
Should be split between the mother and father. Let the couple decide who stays at home to look after the baby. Why would it take two people to look after a baby at all times?
Carol, those reasons are exactly some of the reasons we need the second parent to have greater leave. The mother needs help where possible, the father deserves as much time to be able to help and to bond with the child.
I’d rather quit my job than not be there and sadly that’s the decision many are faced with.
Ugh parental roles are so backward we need to free ourselves of the mother and father labels! Parental bonding with kids is not that important, any two adults can do it.
Kate Middleton gave birth to her second kid and was back out saving the world that afternoon.
@Carol, I bet you don’t believe that womens extended period of trauma (effecting productivity) from carrying a child should be acceptable as an excuse not to hire women likely to get pregnant?
No, me neither. Neither should it be a reason for fathers not to get paternity leave of equal measure to women.
Men suffer mentally having to listen to all the moaning.
12 months and a playstation for putting up with a pregnant woman.
You sound like a right catch.
It’s a joke.
Joanna can’t take jokes.
Mums don’t even get that!
Yes they do but portion is unpaid leave
No its 6 months paid maternity leave and an further 16 weeks can be taken unpaid. So that’s 10 months
Plus annual leave build up during that period
Which is generally 4 weeks
So you’re up to 11 months, not exactly far off a year now is it.
And let us throw a few bank holidays in there shall we
if any parent is being offered full pay from their employer to take 12 months parents leave and they are happy to not work during that time then I dont think it matters which parent stays at home. I think 12 months with either parent is better then that time in a creche
realistically many businesses could not afford that. sure it’s great but no. I say that the state should fund 80% of the salary of person who takes parental leave for a year (with a cap at some point). It is the least the dept of social protection can do for us hard working tax payers since we do not get tax breaks or credits or help with child care.
Exactly Tom, it’s a lovely idea but it would cripple small and medium size business.
So Jane, you think that fathers should not be treated equally?
why are other countries able to handle this perfectly ok?
My wife and child were sick at the start. Should I be at risk of losing my job, because I need to care for them?
But Tom it’s the tax payer who’ll pay in the end, the very people taking the “paid” leave. If a company pays, then the consumer, i.e. the parents pay.
no. ok. Imagine this scenario. A small software company who is contracted to do consultancy work for a larger one and has a budget of €700k to pay its 10 developers. Now suppose 1 of them goes on paid leave for 12 months. The company has 2 choices. Hire another developer and pay 770k for 700k worth of work, or try to squeeze 70k of work out of the remaining employees while they resent an empty chair. So the choice is become less profitable or piss off your employees. Companies are not all rich and hugely profitable and they don’t all manufacture wingdings which are sold in the market and can have their price put up and down. some walk a fine line between profit and going out of business. This would destroy small business.
2 weeks will be a huge improvement over 2 days anyhow.
Everyone saying “yes”, or as long as the company pays, etc… That’s grand for Google and eBay etc, but around 2/3 of irish people are employed by small company’s, with between 2-5 employees. Give their dad’s a year off, with company paying, and there won’t be a job for them when they return, as they would be insolvent.
So no equality, for men?
I agree Eoghan, it’s complete nonsense. We’re not a rich and huge exporter of military equipment like Sweden.
Both men and women are entitled to Parental leave here too. However, Paternity leave is at the discretion of the employer. Three days for father’s in my job, paid by the company. Maternity should be extended to 12 months paid and Paternity should be at least 3 months paid. This is in the best interest of the child.
How can you be entitled to something but its at the employers discretion??
You are entitled to three days unpaid, nothing going more. My employer took in tens of millions last year as a multi national enjoying huge tax breaks yet they give us nothing.
Because parental leave and paternity leave are two different things. it’s why we use two different words.
Don’t you get paid Chuck?
I asked and was told I could take three days unpaid and no more. I offered to hand in my notice, what choice did I have. On receiving my notice my manager in Germany granted me the time off but I still didn’t get a single cent. I didn’t ask for anything I wasn’t entitled to. I asked for leave on compassionate grounds which I don’t believe I should have to beg for. We were lucky enough to have some saving which are now gone but others might not be so lucky.
A year off…you must be joking. And what say if he needs another year off 18 months later for another child….totally unfair and unrealistic to employers and the taxpayer.
No problem Paul once you’ve carried a baby for 9 months then given birth!
Or survived the entire term of such ‘hormoanal’ hell with sanity and tact!
Many businesses may not be able to afford it.
What needs looking at is parental leave. At the moment you can take 14 weeks per child into age 7(I think) in two blocks or all at once, but it’s unpaid. Most other European countries pay something if people take it but with it being unpaid here there’s very few can afford it. On the paternity leave, a year seems a bit much and I say that as someone with kids. That said I was lucky I got three paid days from my employer and they let me take a large block of holidays with it. Some folk get nothing.
Just make it equal. Men and women get the same leave. Or they can split it up depending on the family dynamic. But no one gender trumps the other. Equality is equality.
I’m in construction and in this country we don’t even get a days pay paternity leave. It’s an absolute disgrace.
If you get paid leave, you’ll pay for it through your taxes anyway.
I commented, before the Equality referendum, that this will be a very interesting topic soon.
The children and family bill allows for 2 men to be classed parents (do they get any leave at all?) or 2 women to be parents (technically both are now entitled to leave?)
This will force the government to tackle this issue I imagine
Fathers have as much right to paternal leave as mothers have to maternal leave, to not grant men the right to paternal leave is just illogical, whether it should be 12 months, that might be debatable, though I say, why not, it’s not going to bankrupt any company and it’ll be, at least in my opinion, actually a boost for the economy
Men should be working all the time. None of this girly carry on.
I believe fathers should get time of, but 12 months i believe is a tad to much,then again I guess it be up to the parents, and of course the first couple of months can be very busy with a new born, and if dad wants to be there and his job facilitates time off, I don’t see why not,for myself I would have liked to have one month off work with the option of time off when needed.
Give men paternity rights equal to maternity rights and the so called glass ceiling will become a lot easier to break through.
Two years for twins YIPPEE !
On the face of it sounds great,but I have a feeling if this is ever made law in this country which is already one of the most expensive places to live in,you can guarantee it will just be used to drive up costs even still further, the very opposite to what we need right now.
A year would be great !! Although it would be nice to have your job left open for up to 2 years even Un paid of either parent .
Self employed are bunched as per in this nanny state !!!! I took two days off !
I see nobody here consider the new born. A new born need his mother first of all. The strong relationship that develops during the pregnancy can affect the new born child. On the other hand it is proven breast feeding is very important for the further development if the child. I doubt a father can do it. I think a mother must spend at least 6 month with her new born. I admire a lot the Swedish model, that not only encourages fathers to take paternity leave, but it’s also mandatory for them. It’s very good to share it, but for the first 6 months mother is needed mostly.
When are the 2 weeks paternal leave coming into force?
Our ancestors are looking down on us thinking what a bunch of whiny pussies these idiots are.
parents should be able to divide up an allocated number of days as they wish, simple solution.
I’d say the 2.4 kids average or whatever it is would rise sharply :)
Yes. Or at the very least six months. Think of the pressure taken off both parents when neither has to rely on a full night’s sleep for work in the mornings. Lots of time for both to bond with baba.
Daisy: How dare you talk sense in a thread about father’s rights!!
Lads you’re all missing a huge factor here. When the mother goes back to work who looks after the child? Crèche, grandparents, childminders etc. Why shouldn’t parents have the option to be at home to raise their child together or shared (equally)? A fathers input is as vital as a mothers. Is it not? We just voted for equality so why does it stop when it comes to raising a child. Both parents should have equal leave, should they not?
European States, including Ireland, need to make things conducive to having families.
Going to open up a can of worms here… What happens when its two fathers with a surrogate? :o
There is no way that companies or the tax payers could afford 12 months unpaid leave for fathers and mothers. It would put the country at an enormous competitive disadvantage against any country that does not implement it.
How do I apply for a job
Everyone seems so concerned about the loss to the tax payer. Has anyone considered the right of a child to bond with its father. There is too much opinion in the land that the mother has more rights to bond with their child first and foremost. What about the amount of dads out there who desperately want to be beside their children as much time as they can but can’t because of backward thinking. Where does it say anywhere that it’s more beneficial for bonding time to be that of the mother? The underlining issue here is that of bonding, support and raising of children in their first year. This is about the child at the end of the day. What’s in the best interest of the child
Women nurture, men hunt, that’s the way it’s always been. We work on average about 39 hrs a week. That’s 129 hrs weekly to bond with your newborn.
@Jason, that is such an antiquated reply. We live in a different world where men and women are to be considered equal. Now take for consideration men have 139 hrs of bonding as per your suggestion. The average newborn baby to 9 month old will sleep on average 17 hours in a day, most of that being at night. Now for example, a person does a nine to five job but also has to travel to and from work to be considered, if on average most newborns go to bed at 8pm that’s about 2 hours left mon to fri (8hours) plus weekends. Where are your 139 hrs now?
You obviously don’t have kids justin because if you did you would no they sleep 17 hrs a day but not altogether. Up to about 4 months they can wake every 3 – 4 hrs. What are yourself and your partner going to do while the baby is asleep for most of the day. Sit and stare at it? And I never got to 139 hrs, it was 129 hrs.
Your also obviously not very good at maths as mon- fri is 10 hrs not 8hrs. And newborns don’t go to bed at 8 pm. They wake when they want and they sleep when they want to.
Actually James, I’m a dad of a 8month old, and yes I do spend every waking minute of his being at his beck and call. I have done all the late night feedings etc. so what’s your point?
Actually the names Jason. All the late night feeds must be messing with your brain. I’ve got news for you Justin that may you may not believe….YOUR NOT THE ONLY DAD IN THE WORLD.
a year is too long but a longer period of time should be provided to fathers. father’s rights should be the next equality issue dealt with in this country.
6 months, no longer. And additionally only if the moder is not taking a leave.
I am a mother and I believe Father’s are very Important and should have the same rights as a Mother!! Equal rights for Both parents
There should be no such thing as “p/maternity” leave. There should be parental leave of a certain amount of time that the parents can split however they want.
At the moment, a woman may well be only too happy to get back to work while her partner is only too happy to stay home. Even if they can afford to do this, it doesn’t make sense because she has maternity leave which she’ll then end up “wasting” it, putting far more pressure on her to be the one to stay home.
If they end up with (for example) 12 months that you can split between the two, if anything there should be affirmative action in the way it can be split. i.e. The mother can choose not to use any of the time if she wishes, but if the father doesn’t use at least (for example) one month of it, that month is wasted. It would also equalise the playing field for women of child-bearing age in seeking employment: “Yes traditionally you might expect me to have a child and take leave. But I might choose not to. If you hire a man who has a child, on the other hand, he will almost certainly take leave because otherwise the couple will lose that month.”
As regards Virgin, a full year for just one parent is a great but making that long a statutory requirement for each parent (two person-years), is probably demanding too much.
what if you’re a single father or are man married to another man with children? how would you have time to take care of the kids?
have your say