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A FEW WEEKS ago, I jumped on a table in the chambers of Cork’s City Hall to protest the presence of respectability and the sanitised history of Pride. I spoke up for trans women like myself, for women of colour, for sex workers, for poor and “unrespectable” queers like me, like so many others.
To some, this seemed like an extreme act. “Wait your turn.” “This is not the place.” “We need to know your place in the events.” These were things said to me by two other LGBT activists. I had sat through an hour of people patting themselves on the back over marriage equality, a cause I also worked towards, with no mention of the Gender Recognition Act that our trans community fought so hard for so many years over, or the serious issues still affecting the community, merely commenting that we still had “work to do”.
“Oh well they didn’t name us outright, but I mean, in spirit,” one of my fellow trans folk told me. But when we get into the spirit of things, you’ll find that that what I did was much more in the “spirit” of Pride than the majority of events we have nowadays. In many cases worldwide, Pride and LGBTQ movements in general have become deeply commercialised, respectable, sanitised. Apolitical.
The woman who runs my trans group seems to have a deep fear of the political, of the unrespectable. One expressed a fear of reversing the work done with conservative politicians, who seem to be more important to her than an activist like myself. I’ve since been cut off from support by my own community, when my position is pretty bog standard for trans activists these days.
Tight control
Pride, the modern LGBTQ rights movement came out as a result of the Stonewall riots. Stonewall was not started by respectable, cisgender white people. The respectable, cisgender white people at Stonewall were the police. And in many ways that hasn’t changed – white, wealthy or otherwise influential gay men still control our movement. Not the butch, biracial lesbians, the bisexual community activists, the black & latina trans sex workers, the political, working class queers, for example.
That’s not to say that white gay men and boys, even middle class ones aren’t still persecuted. Many still end up on the streets due to their parents rejecting them. Many have trouble getting jobs, especially if they’re gender nonconforming. But this isn’t even what we talk about at Pride anymore. Even the Yes Equality campaign, behind the scenes, was full of frightening stories of silencing and erasure, keeping a tight control on who said what. Bisexual, trans people and queer people of colour were all but invisible. To appeal to a “Middle Ireland” that no longer exists.
Ireland has become an increasingly multicultural and diverse society. I say this is good for us. Many will look to blame immigrants from more conservative countries and other religions for certain issues, but in reality their presence has forced us to step out of our cultural hidey holes, examine ourselves. Many of these issues are tied together. One historical institution I like to bring up is “Polari”, a language used by the Queer community in the 19th and early 20th centuries. The word “Drag” is thought to come from the word Indraka, meaning skirt or dress in Romanes. I work closely with the Roma community in Cork. In the wake of the Yes Equality campaign, a Garda task force set up partly at the behest of the Cork Business Association, set out to prosecute people for begging – mostly vulnerable Roma mothers. Punishment for being poor.
One of my friends is already in jail, her welfare cut off and no money for her children, their mother torn away from them by a racist, classist institution. Another woman I work with, a disabled Roma woman with one leg and a new baby, who had their welfare cut off until she gets a birth cert for her child, is served with a fine she can’t pay (why would she be begging otherwise?).
For some Roma – especially didikai (half Roma) who can be cut off both from our support net and the Roma community – being LGBTQ is particularly difficult and almost unheard of. When I hear of these experiences, and the Gardai targeting and profiling these people, it reminds me a lot of what used to happen to us before the queer liberation movement. But where is their Stonewall? And where is the support for queer Muslims, asylum seekers who often face rejection by their own communities? Or just Muslims and asylum seekers in general?
What it means to be queer
How can we preach equality while ignoring the effects of class & race? We ignore intersectionality, which covers up a lot of the reality of what it means to be queer. I myself am transfeminine and autistic, which gives people two reasons not to listen to or believe me. Even my own community often doesn’t believe in me, or offer an opportunity for me to speak. I’m treated like a broken or bold child.
And I’m not the only one. Recently – and this was partly my inspiration – a trans Latina activist called Jennicet Gutiérrez spoke up at an LGBT gala Barack Obama was hosting. She was hushed, told “this isn’t for you!” while Obama made some quite smug remarks about this being “his house”. Here, respectability was endlessly more important than the fact that her people were dying, being sexually abused in ICE detainment.
Suggest someone has done something homophobic, ableist, transphobic, racist or the like and they take it personally. The issue is no longer about these institutions that for example put vulnerable Roma women, queer sex workers and the like out on the streets. It’s about someone’s self image being challenged, feeling they may not be quite as nice a person as they thought. With all this nonsense about political correctness, far too often it goes precisely the opposite way, with terms like “PC gone mad” and “Social justice warrior” being used to shut down marginalised voices.
When there’s an epidemic of violence and murder against transgender women (especially of colour) in the US – counting about 20 this year at this stage, and that’s just reported – we need to not be silenced. When Frances Fitzgerald wants to enact legislation recommended by Magdalene order-funded organisations to make sex work – something my people traditionally rely on – more rather than less dangerous, we need to not be silenced.
When people are being locked up for being poor, brown or homeless – or just plain unrespectable – we need to not be silenced. We need to loudly shout these names, trans activists and Stonewall veterans all – Marsha P. Johnson, Sylvia Rivera, Stormé DeLarverie, Miss Major, Brenda Howard. This is to those left behind by our “equality” movement.
Leighanna Rose Walsh is a queer autistic trans woman living in Cork. She is a writer, musician and activist focusing mostly on Trans/Queer and immigrant issues. She works closely with the Cork Roma Women’s group, as well as volunteering with Cork Feminista. You can read some of her essays here and listen to her recent talk on autism and sexuality here.
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You lost me at “jumped on a table”.
If you don’t listen after someone jumps on a table, then to what lengths do you require them to go to before you will start listening?!
You probably don’t realise it, but you’ve helped validate much of what Leighanna has said.
That’s a shame, because you missed the part that points out the only reason we have LGBT rights nowadays is because of a literal riot. What I did was tame.
Good.
Leighanna, I remember you from the articles leading upto the Referendum, and just like this article you just came across as extremly confrontational. Even with people who were agreeing with you, you actually argued with them, saying I don’t need you to agree with me, you’re straight this isn’t your fight etc etc. I haven’t walked in your shoes, and I haven’t experienced what you have in your life. But you have to the say the same when it comes to other people who don’t agree with. we all have problems in life. I’m sure you do good work and you’re heart is obviously in the right place, but as I said at the start, you always comes across as aggressive and confrontational and your point just gets lost in all that..
Hey you know what comes across as really confrontational when 100 people swarm to my article to put me down, call me a special snowflake and accuse me of playing the victim when i suffer severe anxiety because of my experiences yeah that puts me a bit on edge like but i understand your feelings matter more than my safety so that’s cool.
p.s. we don’t all have the same problems in life. That’s just a way of silencing those who have more problems than others. I’ve worked with Asylum seekers and people that have lived in dangerous situations and extreme poverties. We don’t all bleed the same – some bleed more than others, because they are cut more. We don’t have perfect equality, so stop saying this.
I never mentioned my feelings, and again you miss the point, as I saidnin my post, I haven’t walked in your shoes, and no one should have to suffer for being who they are. My Philosophy in life is, people should be allowed to be happy as long as their not hurting anyone. I don’t care is someone is straight,gay,bi,lesbian,trans. Everyone should be allowed to be happy and no one should be assaulted,spat at,mocked etc etc, just for living their lives, my point.. once again is that your point gets lost with you confrontational and agressive approach.
I think the author is blind to this approach diarmuid. Blinkered might be a better term
Catch more flies with honey as they say. instead of a Fly swatter.
@Jake Brilliant
When we try that, we get ignored. It’s only when people make enough noise not be ignored that we’re counted. Read up on Stonewall and stop being historically ignorant.
Diarmuid – serious question – what should someone do when they’ve used all the honey in the world and are still not being respected?
To extend your analogy – honey is made by bees, and bees sting when they are in danger.
I’m sorry but It absolutely baffles me! how you can say in your posts that if you’re not LGBT you need to but out, and if you’re not LGBT then you’re opinion doesn’t count. As a straight person who voted for Equality in the referendum, I honestly don’t understand your strategy when you say things like that. How can things become better for you and people like you, when you yourself try and exclude the very people who are in the majority and in a position to help from the conversation??
Deirdre, I don’t know you, but I respect you, I don’t know Leighanna but I respect her. I’m not a danger to you or Leighanna, any person that I personally know is not a danger to ye either. people of every shape and size, colour and type have persecuted at one point in time. Tommorow morning a kid will get who’s overweight and be mocked and hit for being like that, or someone with red hair will have the same happen to them, Life can be sh*t, more for some than others If i have a child that is . I’m not saying she is wrong, and I agree with certain aspects of what she says, but her agressive tone just does not get her point across. and I honestly don’t know what to do after all the honey is gone…
Diarmuid, because when you start listening to people who are not from a group on the issues and welfare of that group, you tend to get the wrong answers. All too often in this country we’re much happier to listen to NGOs and institutions that put a familiar face on this and this is what gave us the Magdalene laundries, direct provision, and the terrible gatekeeping of trans people and the mentally ill.
You didn’t vote for equality in the referendum. You voted for a basic fundamental right for someone to have their love equally recognised. That doesn’t mean you ended queer oppression or anything like that. If you care about equality – listen.
Also Diarmuid, I don’t know that you’re not a danger than me. Instead of telling me this, show it. Actively work to end the oppression and marginalisation of people like me. Don’t ask me to trust you when I’ve been down that road so many times before, and burnt so hard even by my own people. This is the unfortunate reality for many trans people.
Oh jesus I give up, Congrats Leighanna you win. Yawn…..
That must be great. Meanwhile, people continue to kill my sisters and giving up is not an option.
It must be great to be as sheltered as you are.
Superb piece which has inevitably aroused anger in the bigots. Just a few weeks ago the Stonewall movie trailer completely whitewashed the history, ignoring the pivotal role trans WOC played in forming the LGBTQ movement. It’s definitely correct that the prominent members of the LGBTQ community have failed to draw enough attention to the plight of trans people and that has necessitated the disruptive activism.
It’s sad to say before opening this article I knew the comments would be replete with transphobia, but that’s no deviation from mainstream society; transphobia is still very pervasive. We see it whenever an article about Chelsea Manning or Caitlyn Jenner pops up, the usual callous remarks and jokes.
This scourge has killed numerous people and led to disproportionately high levels of depression within the trans community. If cis people genuinely cared about trans people, they would dispense with the tone policing and start focusing their efforts on confronting the blight of transphobia. People’s lives depend on it.
@Diarmuid. You catch more honeys being fly.
Stiofain Murray, homosexuality was decriminalised 150 years before Ireland decrimmed it, by the Ottoman Empire. Under a Caliph. Wouldn’t be surprised if you didn’t know that.
Liberation isn’t about reformist laws or legalisation, though that is generally part of it.
Stonewall is invariably what brought about the modern LGBT rights movement. Also note Compton’s Cafeteria riot which occurred 3 years before Stonewall. The movement surrounding Pride and Stonewall didn’t begin and end on the date. It was an ongoing thing, and it was still usually people like me that were fighting for it. Please stop erasing trans people from the history of pride. This is all you’re trying to do – justify the often very violent steamrolling of my people, people of colour and sex workers at the hands of people like you.
And the Roma thrown in as well. Why? Roma on our welfare system? Why are the Roma even in Ireland if they cannot support themselves? I found this article a strange read to be honest. What is the article actually seeking? And a gripe with Barrack Obama because he silenced a heckler who happened to be Trans? I suggest the author might consider picking her battles. It’s called winning friends and influencing people. I know the author is outraged but I cannot determine quite why.
Because many of them are fleeing even worse conditions. Many of the Roma in Cork had their village burnt down at the end of the 90s. They are asylum seekers, effectively, but not recognised as such.
As for the “heckler” issue, you have more problem with someone “heckling” Obama than Jennicet’s people being locked up, abused and killed. Your comfort levels matter more than the lives of her people. I’m not saying this as an insult(though it reflects terribly on you), it’s a plain faced fact.
Can I just say that Roma prefer the term gypsy
^ No, they don’t.
Some of the individual Roma are more used to using the word. But many of the Roma who’ve actually managed to make successful careers, are prominent activists etc. advice gadje that the word is somewhat of a slur. I’ve seen it spat at my friends before.
@leighana. I’ve been working with people of this ethnicity for the past 6 months and they have been very vocal about their preference for gypsy. They have been highly educated people as well.
I’ve had the opposite experience and I’ve been involved for a year and a half.
honestly the fact that the same thejournal commenters who are virulently racist against Roma every time an article comes up are upvoting you and not me should tell you something
I wasn’t aware that you could see the identity of the individuals who red or green thumbed comments.
Yes, obviously thejournal has a completely different set of readers for every article. And the fact that there seems to be an overwhelmingly conservative response to “bleeding heart” articles like this every single time is just a huge coincidence. My mistake.
But you can survive being poisoned, shot, beaten and exposure if the legend is true. Your powers must be fading with age.
Leighanna, you specifically said that individuals who post racist comments against Roma on other articles green thumbed Anna Marie’s comment, and red thumbed yours. Yet you have absolutely no evidence for this.
This is simply a hysterical claim to make, and appears to be founded on nothing but bias and ignorance. Which is a pity, because it gets in the way of your otherwise interesting and valid arguments.
Just to point out that regardless of anything re: The Roma a comment calling me “sir”, “leeroy”, otherwise misgendering me and contesting the idea that transgender people even exist got more upvotes than any comment I’ve posted.
Why is this acceptable?
It’s not acceptable, and it shows that there’s a huge challenge ahead to get society in general to understand and accept that sex and gender are not the same things, and that identity is a complex notion.
But that had nothing to do with your absurd claim that all of the people that green thumbed Anne Marie are a particular set of known racists.
I know you’ve said that you only care about the opinions of other LBGT folk, but then why write an article for the Journal (the majority of the readership of which you claim are racist bigots), and why engage in the comments? You seem to want to kick-start a dialogue, but then put up these huge barriers to anyone engaging with you.
Reading through the comments, you’ve alienated a lot of people here tonight. Yeah there’s the knuckle draggers who have insulted you. You won’t get through to them, so feck them. But other people who have tried to discuss the issue with you on a respectful level, you’ve alienated them not because of your identity, not because of your politics – both of which I think there’s more support and understanding for here than you realise – but because of your exceptionally abrasive attitude.
To put it bluntly, if you want to get anywhere with this, you can’t act like everyone is your sworn enemy because they don’t see exactly eye to eye with you.
the knuckledraggers are the ones giving you 56 upvotes just to point out. look at the other comments they’re up/downvoting.
Leighanna. Looks like the vast majority of people reading this article do not agree with you.
No it doesn’t. The article will probably have 15k or 20k hits. Those that come beneath the line to comment or thumb up are a tiny minority and not indicative of much.
I am curious as to why the opinions of people who are not trans matter. When we decide that the views of people outside of a group matter more than those inside it – that’s when we call it oppression.
Most people don’t like Roma, it doesn’t somehow justify the extreme persecution they experience. “Most people” are ignorant, if we’re honest about it. I like to believe deep down they’re capable of being better people but only if we confront them with the fact that they’re currently not. I’m not here to coddle ignorance, because ignorance has killed my people and rendered me a nervous wreck incapable of holding down a full time job(though my volunteer work with the Roma and supporting trans & sex workers is practically that atm).
Looks like the vast majority of people reading this article have pretty much no exposure to the issues.
I’m curious as to what’s so difficult about the concept that the “vast majority” of people against me on this have almost zero education on the subject. Their culture has raised them to believe that THEY’RE the special ones, and that’s why they’re so defensive when it’s challenged.
leighanna , there’s a difference that you don’t seem to want to hear , nobody is against you , people are against your attitude . enough people have said it to you and you are still refusing to listen .
Disagreement over your opinion does not equal lack of interest in trans issues and its disrespectful to imply it is
…. when the entire issue is “Hey, trans/poc/sex worker issues matter” yeah, it kind of does directly imply that. What’s disrespectful is speaking over transgender women on their experiences. I don’t really have an opinion outside of “marginalised lives matter, don’t forget all the stuff we’ve done either” here, but somehow that’s threatening to you.
That’s the spin YOU want to put on it to suit your own warped thinking. It’s easier to think we’re the problem because we don’t care about you or your struggle so you don’t have to examine your own behaviour. We do care but it’s your delivery that is the problem. I don’t agree with anything you said or did. That does not mean I don’t support the trans community. You need to tone it down, take a step back and LISTEN. You’re making this all about you and the core issues are being lost but maybe that’s what your real aim is.
Again, it’s very convenient how the trans person with large amounts of experience on trans issues has the “warped” thinking, meanwhile cis people who will never understand my life are the ones who know what the deal is.
I’ve been listening to cis people all my life. You’re the one who needs to listen for once. I don’t need to listen to other people about MY issues.
You really need to sort out the attitude problem. If you are this confrontational with people who support trans rights how do you ever expect to get those who don’t support you on side. No one hears the arguments, they just hear someone with a massive chip on their shoulder having a rant. I think most people appreciate that as a trans woman you have insight most of us will never have but that doesn’t make you automatically right in all you say and do. There’s no talking to you, you’d rather believe that anyone who disagrees with you is transphobic.
thejournal, you’re losing me with this tripe…
So what would you like to hear about then? The Kardashians? The latest champion at Crufts? Jennifer Garner MAYBE having a boob job but we’re not sure?
The news is full of “tripe”. I’m sorry that you consider shining light on the fact that people are being killed for being trans at epidemic rates to be “tripe” but you know when you’re being killed it probably doesn’t feel that way.
Suzie – seriously – WT actual F?
How sweet must one be before one is listened to? Especially since being sweet in the past has proved useless?
Deirdre , you all had an opportunity to discuss the article but instead you all went on the attack and when that happens on a public forum you can forget about it . people will just switch off . there has been a good few commentators on here who said they were interested in the article but were shot down by you , leighanna and jen’s attitude .
People are constantly on the attack on our community. Look at this entire comments section. It’s more acceptable for people to be aggressive to us, than it is for us to be aggressive to them, even though we have vastly more reason to be angry(and when we don’t get angry – nobody hears about our issues). No decent human being would support that double standard.
@ Suzie, Just not happenin.
Leighanna – you are NOT a good activist for your community as you alienate people who would be sympathetic to your cause through your hysteria.
And as you say in your poorly researched article – even the transwomen in your group disagree with your tacttics.
That should tell you something.
You won’t listen of course – you seem to get off on being offended.
“Hysteria” is sexist, btw. Not just talking about the origins of the word but how you’re using it right now. If I wasn’t full of Estrogen I likely wouldn’t get this remark.
The trans women from my group are considerably less representative than I am. Sorry, trans woman. It’s one woman we’re talking about here. The rest of the group don’t know any better so just believe what she says. But the problem here, trans wise, is solely with *one woman*, Patricia O’Connell.
I use the word hysteria to describe your angry tone, your aggressive nature, your refusal to listen to other people – even those that are sympathetic to your cause, and your inability to stick to the topic at hand.
You are behaving in a hysterica manner Leighanna – irrespective of how many estrogen injections you have taken.
You are a terrible representative for your cause thanks to your unceasing ability to alienate everyone.
You even admit yourselt that you have alienated all the other transwomen in your group.
Wake up and smell the coffee Leighanna – you are not a good trans advocate.
I have a migrane
Cool a young girl in my circles online threw herself off the Golden Gate bridge a few months back because she was sick of being swamped with comments like this. I still see comments left by her on friends photos on FB. Do you think her head hurt more when she hit the water, or drowned below?
I’m sorry about your fiend but so called ‘normal’ people commit suicide every day, you don’t have the monopoly on anxst or depression.
me too captain k
Kirk – the attempted suicide rate amongst transgender people is 40%.
i.e. 40% of us attempt suicide at least once and survive. So can you imagine how many of us don’t.
Yes no-one has a monopoly on suffering, but there are things that can be foisted upon you that make it so very much more difficult.
You know, you’d swear from your constant attempts to erase us that you have a monopoly on suicide, angst and depression. How many movies and books are there are about moody privileged white men and their manfeels?
We do have a monopoly on the particularly phenomenon that causes us to commit suicide at alarming rates. When you try and say “we can kill ourselves too!” you’re not trying to shine a light on suicide and the causes of it, quite the opposite. You don’t care about anyone, just silencing people.
well that was pretty rambling. I’m guessing that (thankfully)achieving equality is a nightmare scenario for some people who always want to be the outlier.
Person writes article asking for people to be included. Respondent complains that they want to be an outlier.
smh
I don’t want to be the outlier. I sometimes take pride in being a bit of a freak as it were, but being autistic kills your ability to be self reliant. I want to be part of something, I want to belong. But people have ruined even our own trans communities, made us throw each other under the bus to get ahead.
Thomas – seriously – I happen to know Leighanna, and I suspect she has more friends than I, for one.
Try harder, troll.
i actually made 4 new FB friends during the course of this LOL
How sad. The need to be accepted. In order for you to love Leigh you need to learn to love yourself. You are bickering like a school child now. 4 FB ‘friends’??? Oh dear. I wish you all the best in your life long struggle. Against yourself…
Blaming the marginalised for their own marginalisation is a violent act.
She makes reasonable points but why the need to define herself as queer? I don’t like that word. Trans and autistic should be enough for anyone. I think we lose touch with our common humanity if we keep harping on how different we are
You’re totally unique…..just like everybody else.
Because I identify as queer. I’m pretty much bisexual but queer helps communicate that I have a less than mainstream identity. It’s not about being a snowflake. Being “unique” is actually really difficult and you seemed to miss the point of the article if you didn’t pick up on that. If I was just a cis lesbian things would be a lot easier. But I’m not. Plus “special snowflake” is generally used as a slur against trans people anyway. You’re just trans to be special! Curious, cis or straight peoples identities never come under fire this way. Personally it annoys me when you get allies who make a point of no homo, I’m a STRAIGHT ally. But nobody calls them snowflakes.
Because I don’t jump on tables and rant, why does that make my uniqueness any less than yours?
Ok sorry Leighanna, I did find your take on things interesting, I just find all these labels a bit exhausting! I’m just not up with the lingo. I know ‘queer’ has been reclaimed but to me it still has negative connotations, I just think people are people
This isn’t about you or your “uniqueiness”. It’s about the fact that people are being killed, excluded and made homeless and that people care more about their comfort levels than our lives.
No it’s about a scramble for acknowledgement of an individuals uniqueness. We’re all different, we’ve all got quirkes and foibles – we’ve all got sh!t in our lives…..but we don’t all scream about it.
No, it’s literally about recognising the fact that our “equality” movement has left people behind, sometimes to die. This is what I’m saying. Stop pretending like everyone has an equal amount of “sh!t” in their lives. And don’t speak for me again.
…and there’s the crux of you issue “OUR equality movement” – You’re marginalising yourself.
I’m homo & trans indifferent – I really don’t care what people are like so long as they are not unduly rude and have regard for others in their every day life.
I’m marginalising myself – yes, trans people are totally to blame for their oppression.
And quite obviously, you care more about “rudeness” than the lives of people like me. I prefer people who are impolite but genuine, good people. You are not one of these people. Anyone who blames someone for their own persecution needs to check out of any arguments on equality & oppression. It’s called victim blaming, and it’s the same nonsense that makes it hard to convict people for hate crimes, rape, etc.
Would you care to explain how I am personally to blame for transphobia, personally to blame for being assaulted for being trans, personally to blame for privileged, white gay men erasing our history in LGBTQ quality, personally to blame for every time I’m called “tranny”, “faggot”, personally to blame for gatekeeping denying people like my hormones and therapy, killing them in some cases, personally to blame for being disowned by people so desperate to look “acceptable” to ignorant people who will never accept or understand their issues anyway, because they’ve no interest in it?
Other people are to blame for oppression. Not me. I have very little power in society. I fought for everything I have.
Exactly…they need to get over themselves…build a bridge and walk over it!
Lou, I probably come across that way because the fact is that our people face amazing levels of persecution. If you’re not aware of this fact, then it might seem that way to you, but the fact is that I’m constant contact with trans people living in the US where there is an epidemic of violence at the moment.
People who shout and scream started the LGBT community as an actual movement. Without us, there would be no marriage. Please do some reading on the history of stonewall & the trans riots that occured before it.
How about you keep your opinion to yourself then coz it is just your own opinion – purposely constructed to have a go at the oppressed in order to get yourself a bit of attention. Our experience in life is that the likes of you and your tiny narrow mindset don’t actually speak for the vast majority of people at all.
Vince it’s not up to the people struggling to survive to build bridges with people who care more about their own comfort levels than whether or not we live or die. The LGBTQ community have been fighting and reaching out for ages – how about you guys do something for once?
Wonderful for you to be able to enjoy such indifference. Meanwhile in the real world where oppression exists and we need to unify behind a shared goal, we’re losing lives. So, how about you take your indifference and piss off with it somewhere else. Cheers.
If you are not trans, honestly, your opinion does not matter.
To you, killing my people is not confrontational. It’s not even worthy of a footnote. But when I tell you to show respect for the boundaries of others, that’s an act of aggression. Your entire perspective on this needs to be rebuilt. You have little or no education on this subject and need to accept that.
The tone of your comments speaks volumes.
Jen: But you know people are dying because of ignorance right
Lou: But what about MY OPINIONS? /
get lost
“on this site” therein lies your problem. LGBTQ people would have no rights if it wasn’t for being “aggressive”.
Don’t comment on issues you know nothing about.
Well, yes. Either way you’re presuming you know more than someone who’s lived it for 11+ years. Cis people have such an immense entitlement to our issues.
We know best. Nothing about us without us. If you care remotely about us, listen to what we have to say, and not just the minority of us determined to look “respectable”.
“Cis people have such an immense entitlement to our issues.” Oh, cop on. I’ve got trans friends, and I want what’s best for them, but I couldn’t be arsed fighting for them alongside you if your response to criticism is generalizing insults.
none of these people were willing to listen in the first place.
I will not be silenced.
Oppression is what occurs when people who are not part of a group, who are not invested in the well-being of a group, decide their view of how they should be treated and regarded more than theirs.
Fascism is bad largely because it contains large amounts of oppression. It’s what happens when one strong core nationalist identity is considered the ideal and everyone is expected to conform to it – i.e. the privileged telling the less privileged what to do with themselves, how they should be(in some cases, dead). So you have things completely the wrong way around. Also, white gay men are VASTLY more likely to be actual neonazis than transgender women, people of colour of sex workers. There’s a reason for that.
Conservative white gays are the real liability to the movement because they just look for what they want them feck off leaving the more vulnerable queers literally for dead. You don’t care about us. You don’t care about our lives. So how dare you tell us we’re hurting our cause, because you were never invested in it in the first place. You are not our leaders.
Ultimately, cis opinions do not matter in trans issues. If you think is is fascist then it shows how ridiculously sheltered or uneducated(despite your posturing to the contrary) you must be. I’m white, white opinions don’t much matter on PoC issues either. I should just signal boost people of colour. I can still make unique observations as an outsider, and I still have a right to an opinion. But ultimately I should NEVER be the one dictating the argument.
You want to control us. That is what this is all about.
Leighanna says:
“If you are not trans, honestly, your opinion does not matter. ”
Quest for respectability? its not a destination it’s a way to behave and carry ones self; and if people don’t like the way you behave, no amount of jumping on tables having a tantrum will ever change that!
There are different kinds of respectability. The respectability of most in the current LGBT community is a type of respectability that would find the Stonewall rioters (who started the modern LGBT rights movement) disrespectful.
Which is kinda the point of this article.
@Deirdre. Different Kinds of respectability? you’re either respectable Deirdre or you’re not. you either have dignity Deirdre or you don’t. you can’t be a little bit pregnant either. Perhaps you can enlighten me in this regard.
If you’re not LGBTQ you need to butt out of this tbh. You quite obviously clare more about abstract standards of behaviour than you do about people killing people like me. You clearly have no rational and consistent moral standard if this is what offends you
Abstract Standards? Really? respectability, and dignity are abstract standards? if you have to use the word obviously to fortell my intent then it is you that is behaving irrationally. And btw I am not one bit offended and its a presumption of yours that I am not LGBTQ! how dare you presume to know me or my intent.
Seriously, just stop. You really think people are going to start listening to what you say when you tell them to “butt out” of the conversation because they aren’t LGBT? You think that’s doing your argument any favours? If you want this to be an exclusively LGBT conversation, post the article on an LGBT site. Since you posted it on a general news site, it’s open to the general public. You can’t start a discussion and then tell people to shut up because they don’t agree with you.
That is true indeed, and I’m also more than a little concerned that a platform such as the journal has been given to an individual that believes such things as common decency, respectability and dignity are just abstract standards. Frightening!
Samwidge – dignity and pregnancy are different to respectability.
Some of the most respectable people in the world have wasted billions of taxpayer’s money propping up banks. Some of the most respectable people in Ireland (priests) have use children as sexual toys.
That kind of respectability is a veneer.
Then there is the respectability that comes from standing up for what’s right – even in the face of dreadful opposition.
Rioters, like those at Stonewall, are generally considered to have none of the first kind of respectability, but tons of the second.
Deirdre; I think everyone knows that pregnancy is different to dignity and respectability; it was an analogy that I was using-think you may not have got that-but not to worry that’s OK; However dignity, decency and respectability are far from abstract, they are IMO the moral foundation of society; something that’s worth standing up for. Respectability comes from within Deirdre; not some perceived media plugged notion of high society or holier than thou pontification. it cannot be bought or granted from a higher power. So with that said, there still remain only one kind of respectability; the personal kind. everything else is just public relations.
Again, you care more about respectability than you do *human lives*. This is a fact you have not addressed. When you say “society”, you mean western imperialism. Various cultures have different modes of respect and civility, some of which are strict in their own ways, but that don’t tend to hold in the face of extreme persecution. That is specifically a colonialistic thing.
Also, what the hell is decent about the fact that trans women are murdered and commit suicide at an alarming rat,e and people like you rush to silence people like me rather than doing anything about it? You are so far from having any sane morals you should not be commenting on this.
Don’t let your obvious bias put words in my mouth Leighanna. what i said was exactly what I meant to say, nothing more, you seem to care more about what happened to you personally than any perceived crusade you may think you are currently engaged in. your fight is not with me; it is with yourself. i wish you luck and peace it is a path seldom walked.
silence you? you are the one that has the platform and the column; i would say that it was you that would try to silence me. We all get that you have been through hell; now get the required help to get over it! do not let it define you , eat you or become you. learn. that is all.
Cynical, I got a platform and a column after 11 years of being shushed and silenced sometimes even by my own community. I’m a pretty good writer and they were looking for a trans article. There are some more marginalised than I who effectively have no voice.
Plus look at the comments section – or any comment section – dominated by conservative sensibilities.
And you DO care more about respectability than our lives. Because that’s all you’re talking about now. You were told there was an epidemic of violence against my people and you didn’t even flinch. You’ve clearly shown your priorities.
I thought your article was just fine. But you have completely undermined it with your belligerent, self-pitying attitude in the comments section. Honestly , you have to get over your victim complex if you want to win friends and influence people. I don’t say that to be mean, just constrictive criticism
Leighanna; you purport to have writing abilities and you got your platform; unfortunately you used it to unleash a pent up dam of emotional hurt, bias and and veiled hate to those you thought would or could oppress your big chance to say what you had to say; and I have to say, and I am only presuming to speak for a lot of people in the LGBT community when I say; you blew it girl; And I’m only presuming that; You actual spoke for them. And you wonder why there is so much perceived prejudice. you have shown your priority as a singular entity with singular issues
I’m not motivated by hate, I’m motivated by love. And if I didn’t believe love could win over hate, I’d probably have nothing to live for. People need to know how much we’re hurting. Again, you care more about things looking respectful and in order than you do about our lives. I don’t much care for the sectors of the LGBT community that disagree with me because they don’t speak for those who are most in need of a voice.
Also Stephen I don’t think you understood my article at all.
I believe you have identified the issue with your own words:
“I don’t much care for the sectors of the LGBT community that disagree with me…”
Your intent is clear and you have no voice only your own bitter ramblings; shame on the Journal for allowing this farce to continue. I see no constructive meaning in entertaining you further; you have lost your credibility and should bow out gracefully as I am about to do. I wish you well. peace be the journey.
cynical , well said .
You know Mrs Shalakalananaka cis people should be able to understand to respect the boundaries of other and not butt into arguments that don’t concern them. Why should someone who doesn’t know my issues or my life have any power over me? Yet that’s the status quo. Cis people still get to decide if trans people can transition. They still decide if our identities are valid. I reject that.
And I’m not posting this on an LGBT site because the general public need to get this too. That’s not an invitation for you to claim you know better than me on my own issues. I don’t know why it ever would be.
Stephen: What on earth makes you think it’s okay to accuse a trans person of having a victim complex? You are aware of the difficulties of being trans in society? The stigma, abuse and general callousness the trans community face. Someone takes the time to write an informed, perceptive article and they’re met not only with hostility but transphobia too, and you expect them to respond with civility?
It speaks volumes that the tone of the writer annoys you more than the odious transphobia in here.
I’m not sure if you’ve posted in the wrong article but if it is this one you are referring to I can say on reflection that regardless of what was intended by said article. the author did use a public forum for a personal gripe so “Victim Complex” was well founded in all respects and the vast majority of malice that ensued was instigated by the author and supporters. Therefore your insinuation is absurd.
What complete and utter bilge. If you were in here last night you would have seen the prevalence of transphobia, much of it which has now been deleted by the moderators. Transphobia isn’t a ‘personal gripe’ it’s an oppressive prejudice that afflicts millions of people. Implying that someone’s indignation at it is misplaced is very malicious. Now can you point me to your posts where you’ve confronted the vile transphobia? Or do you only target trans people with a hostile tone? As I said, speaks volumes.
Let me draw your attention to my comments above. I was here for the majority of last night and I see no such moderation of the comments as they were. You however were nowhere to be seen at the time, busy doing something more important I guess so a lot you have to say about it now! where were u ha. (tumbleweed) so don’t come all over hard done by its a bit late for that tripe.
Can I ask, in all sincerity, what could Cork Pride have done to better represent Trans* individuals? Based on all literature available they had Trans* events on during the week and the ahem… “disturbance” occurred at the opening meeting. I wasn’t there so I don’t know when you objected, but it seems like, given time, you may have heard what you wanted?
So, genuinely curious, if you were in cvarge what actions would you have done different?
There was no mention of trans issues or the gender recognition bill during the hour people were talking during the launch. That was my primary concern. I also feel the general nature of pride betrays it’s own history. We are celebrating a victory when other great issues of inequality face us – asylum seekers, many of whom seek asylum due to being LGBT are still being treated like rats, Ruhama are still pushing forward legislation that will hurt sex workers, etc.
Also the events they had were largely closed, there was nothing really about our history of educating people on trans issues. One was a movie showing solely for the members of the trans gorup and cork feminista(and the unitarian church). The other was… our usual support group plus food. The way they reacted to my complaint was amazingly defensive, also. This is after YEARS of erasure and marginalisation, please understand. Not just a random thing I decided to do. Most years at Pride they have nothing for trans people and the Pride committees Clive claims are so often are often rife with drama.
What’s cis?
what’s normal?
Cisgender. It just means someone who is not trans or intersex. We say it because otherwise people tend to say the word “Normal”, implying we’re not. Not that I have much truck with the concept of “normality”, but for some people it means we’re freaks.
It also implies anybody who is not trans or intersex is some sort of drone. Just because some people are not the same as you, it does not make them the same as each other.
So do you have a problem with calling people straight now?
I’m sorry but people like me get thrown out of their homes, beaten and killed for the label society thrusts upon them. You can deal with being cisgender, which is a scientifically accurate term anyway.
Well, if that’s a label you want to pin on me, fine. I personally don’t accept that pigeon-hole, but sticks & stones….
Being called cis has no effect on you whatsoever. It’s medically accurate. It’s not a slur, and has never been used to physically or emotionally harm someone. It’s funny how nobody will call you a “special snowflake” for defying a plainly descriptive and inoffensive label, but I can’t even call myself queer without being called as such.
Peter – most of my transgender friends have lost family support after coming out as trans.
Happy now?
UM you are aware that something like 30-40% of all homeless youth are LGBTQ, right? I personally know several examples. Many of them are sex workers as a result(no that there aren’t plenty I know who choose that profession too, but it’s still difficult work).
You live in a bubble.
So why exactly should you be believed over me when I’m trans, and I have trans friends?
We don’t keep reliable statistics in Ireland. There is no designation for trans hate crimes in this country. So I cannot give you these statistics. I can give you them for other countries, but you’ll only protest that Ireland is a special case.
We’re much less violent than the US, yes. But we still face a lot of other issues. Exclusion is rampant.
Maybe you’re the one who’s trying to talk about things you don’t understand? The Journal isn’t a platform for you to post something, while we all shut up and listen to you preach at us. It’s a site with a very prominent comment section, where the readers are all encouraged to comment and engage in the articles they read. If you don’t want comments, you shouldn’t have posted the article on this particular site.
You say that cis people should have no say on transgender issues. While I get the frustration you must feel when cis people deny or belittle issues trans people face, silencing us is not the solution. It just creates a sense of distance, of ‘us’ versus ‘them’, and that does nobody any favours. To be accepted by society, you need the acceptance and support of cis people.
On top of that, you yourself have said trans people should shut up too, if they don’t agree with you. Why is a trans person who disagrees with you suddenly not entitled to an opinion? Would you be telling a cis person who agrees with everything you say to shut up? By saying that, you’ve made it very clear that looking after transgender people is not your main concern. Every movement needs debate and different opinions, but you only want your own voice to be heard.
(It also makes you a hypocrite, by the way, as you speak up for Roma people despite not being a part of the community yourself.)
You say we should stop ‘attacking’ you, and that anyone who disagrees with you is a conservative unwilling to listen. Sure, that might fit your narrative, but it’s not true. Some of the commenters here will never listen to you on trans issues. Some of us came in with open minds and were turned off by your attitude and insults. I’m part of the group you needed the support of, and you’ve lost me. You can’t use social anxiety as a shield from criticism either. If you aren’t mentally well enough to take criticism, you shouldn’t have written the article. It’s harsh, but in bringing that up over and over as a defence while insulting others, you’re deliberately turning yourself into the victim. You have no idea what’s going on in our heads, or in our lives, because it’s irrelevant.
You genuinely want to do good for trans people? Lose the attitude, it stinks, and be open to debate and criticism. In some cases of social injustice, we can blame society, or the bigots, or the media. In this case, you are the problem.
Excellent reply..
meant for mrs shalaka
Well said Mrs S, I had posted a comment regarding the loss of open-minded people last night but it was deleted. It seems I hit a nerve.
But cis people need to LEARN to shut up and listen. In general, the privileged need to learn to listen to the marginalised. You’re billowing on about your right to essentially be a dick, meanwhile my people are suffering.
I would say you’re a terrible example for cis people. But that’s the thing – you get to say what you want without being called a bad example. Everything I do or say is held to a standard.
As for losing the attitude – you first. Anyone who gets this defensive over being told they don’t know more about my issues than I do needs to check that ego at the door.
Also – “If you aren’t mentally well enough to take criticism, you shouldn’t have written the article.”
MOST OF US AREN’T. THAT”S THE POINT. You don’t hear from most trans people because we’re super vulnerable. Same for the other groups I mention, sex workers and the Roma. People talk over us, all the time. You’re basically saying YOU DON’T GET TO SPEAK WITHOUT US SPEAKING OVER YOU!
You’re taking it upon yourself to add to the hordes of sometimes quite abusive instances of cis entitlement that are to be found in this thread. Why is it MY responsibility to be silence because I can’t take the backlash? Do you have any idea how messed up what you’re suggesting is? It’s not just “harsh” – it’s the root of all oppression.
I’m not entirely sure where I’m going with this, so bear with me.
Look, I do think there were some very interesting points made in the article. We’ve come to the stage in LGBT rights where we look at our gay marriage referendum and how there are many gay and lesbian people accepted in Irish society, and we figure we’ve done our bit. There’s still gay kids getting bullied and people living in silence though, so we don’t mind too much when we hear people still fighting for LGBT rights. But as you point out, many of the most vulnerable groups are the ones who get less time and attention, because they don’t fit the image we want.
But things like this are a slow progress, and as much as it would be nice to gain acceptance for everybody tomorrow, it’s unrealistic. The transgendered group who are going to see progress first in this country are white Irish people, and other groups will follow later. It might not be ideal, but the likes of transgendered Roma people are going to be a harder fight. Trying to fight both prejudices just makes things more difficult, and won’t improve things for transgendered people in general. Combining too many things alienates people, and stops them seeing transgendered individuals as people the same as them, which is partly the cause of many of the social issues you mention.
So yeah, do work to help these people, but sometimes fighting injustices involves knowing how to choose your battles.
Choosing your battles? Yes. But when you’ve been made an outcast by your own, you end up with nothing to lose (just like those at Stonewall), and so you might as well jump on tables.
I am choosing my battles. I could have gone on for pages about how we treat autistic people like filth. But I held it in.
No, you aren’t choosing your battles, and your aggressive tone is doing both yourself and your cause a disservice. Look at the reaction. People are getting edgy and annoyed, unwilling to listen. They aren’t going to take the cause seriously, or change how they feel about trans people. And honestly, your comments taking offence at criticism aren’t helping the stereotype of the hyper-sensitive SWJ either. Just cool it a bit. Your writing style is good, but not everyone agrees with what you’re saying, so just try not to debate your article in the comment section. We’re moving in the right direction when it comes to LGBT rights. Maybe sometimes a little push in the right direction is no harm, but getting angry and aggressive is only going to hurt the cause. Small steps.
In other words, “wait your turn”. In other words, “suffer in silence while we make our movement a movement of true, universal, equality”.
To hell with that! I’m calling that out as hypocrisy.
Hypocrisy? Where’s the hypocrisy in that statement? Anyway, it’s not what I’m saying. The fact is, you can’t demand people accept you instantly. It’s all well and good to have a small, extremely tolerant group, but that doesn’t mean much in the long term. What you want to do is change society so it becomes more tolerant, but society is usually slow to change, and that’s something you just need to accept. Oherwise you’re being unrealistic, and you’re going to be disappointed. Some things take time, and demanding them instantly just annoys people and loses you sympathy. It’s a pain in the arse, but that’s life.
“We’re moving in the right direction when it comes to LGBT rights.” is no help to the 20 trans people that have been murdered in the US this year(and that’s just recorded, real number is probably much, much higher), already higher than the entirety of 2014.
Of course people aren’t going to agree with what I’m saying. But hopefully now Clive & Patricia will see quite how rotten the people they were trying to appeal to are.
And what about the many trans people who are able to come out and live happy lives? Who can get sex changes and are not murdered by the state? Who are slowly becoming more accepted in mainstream society? That wasn’t always the case.
You can’t demand people accept you instantly?!
What the actual F?!
Yes you can. And you *must*!
There is *NO* excuse for not accepting people.
Alright, fine, my wording was wrong. You CAN demand people accept you. But you can’t force them to.
I notice with the lgbt crew when things are quiet you bang the drum on stupid issues. 99% of people in Ireland don’t care what way someone swings for the love of god it’s not as if the lgbt movement is banned. live your live how you want to be happy and for a change stop bloody moaning as if you have a cross to bear. For a change think outside the box and get real. people are homeless throughout the world kids are suffering now that’s problems. stop biatching
So trans people being killed is a “stupid” issue? Good to know.
Technically, puberty blockers are banned in Ireland so you can’t claim no aspect of LGBT issues aren’t banned. Trans kids are forced to go through the wrong puberty, which is pretty horrible.
You’re almost invariably sheltered compared to most of the people I associate/work with. You’re literally telling me to stop bitching – meaning you want to silence people who have it harder than you. This is what oppression looks like – I’m saying we’re dying, you’re saying shut up.
I think the commentary on this article is unduly harsh. The article is angry in tone, and justifiably so.
Their are large swathes of people out there that think Panti is a trans person. There’s lots of confusion about trans people and there’s no way people are going to bother going to the hassle of educating themselves on this topic as it’s too complex for simple consumption. Too many variations.
I’m not convinced there’s a battle to be won here.
I think drag queens are still important and there can be a lot of resentment from trans people towards drag queens when traditionally the lines were blurry and we fought together. But it’s still v. important to learn the distinction between a cisgender gay man doing drag as a performance and a transgender woman, or otherwise transfeminine/gender fluid person.
Sorry to burst your bubble Leighanna but the world is not about adjusting to all your personal issues. Hatred will forever exist which is the route of your topic. You’re wasting your time. Charlie Chaplin didn’t end war and mass murder did he? Get on with your life because you’re just being silly trying to fight a hopeless cause. Everyone has their own battle it’s called nature. Get used to it.
I don’t have a bubble. You have a bubble. My people are being killed and driven to suicide. Those are not my personal issues. Those are serious societal issues caused very directly by the ignorance of people like you, since you silence our voices and refuse to deal with these problems.
The LGBT community in Ireland is not as oppressed as you think it is. Committing suicide is a case of mental health issues. http://www.lgbt.ie/information.aspx?contentid=85 The LGBT community needs to be mentally strong and have a sense of normality despite what people do or say. There is support for your people out there. Do your research. As for getting killed that’s a middle eastern problem. Nobody is silencing you. In fact blaming society is completely counter productive. You’re only oppressing yourself. Wake up.
I read the article with interest and was reading your comments and replies with interest and an open mind until I read this – “If you’re not LGBTQ you need to butt out of this tbh.” – that’s grand, so then you don’t want support or you do? I can’t quite figure it out.
Your comments saying if you’re not trans, butt out and if you’re trans but don’t agree with my quest then butt out, don’t exactly cover you in glory.
You shouldn’t need to resort to insulting anyone in order to get your point across. I’m quite shocked by some of the comments you’ve made.
I think I was pretty obviously referring to people who were trying to talk over me and tell me they know more about my issues than I do. Genuine allies who signal boost are great. After all, I’m not Roma, but I didn’t “butt out” of Roma issues. I used my platform to draw a comparison between the issues LGBTQ communities face and ethnic minorities like the Roma face.
Ally is a verb, not a noun at the end of the day(or so we say). You don’t get a special badge just for not being ignorant. Holding your support to ransom is extremely insidious. You either support my cause or you don’t, quite frankly, changing your mind because you see I’m angry at the swarms of muppets who are in many instances very abusive means you never supported me in the first place. The whole point of the article is to take a stance against respectability, and that respectability kills us.
Why are you so shocked by my comments, but not some of the comments I’ve received? Imagine being an extremely vulnerable person who struggles with mental illness and was brave enough to write this one article. Imagine knowing you’ll get this torrent of abuse, but no amount of foresight can prepare you for how horrible it will be. Why would you side against someone like that, judge them for their tone?
I’m just going to say one thing as I feel it deals with most of these points(and that’s being nice) quite well – if you are not LGBT, don’t know about your history. It’s not about censorship – trust me you have no idea what it’s like to be truly silenced – it’s about respect.
If you think you know better than me about our history when you probably haven’t even read a single article about Stonewall or the history of queer oppression then you really shouldn’t be talking over people who are. It’s fine to not be educated on everything – but you should be willing to listen to people about their life experiences instead of calling it a “load of bollocks”. By what measure is it a load of bollocks? Because of what some lad down the pub who’s voting Identity Ireland said?
The fact is that there is an epidemic of violence against transgender people, in the US and many other countries right now. If you care more about things like me jumping up on tables or being told you’re wrong, then your saying your comfort level matters far more than our lives.
If I could say one thing – it’s to respect people who’ve been through difficult experiences and listen to them. If you haven’t experienced something, if you don’t understand it, don’t go on about how it’s a whole load of rubbish. You can say “I’m not homophobic/racist/transphobic but” until the rainbow cows come home but the fact is if you don’t listen to us, you clearly don’t have any respect for us at all.
@Leighanna.
Are you being oppressed in this society, this modern Ireland?
If so….by whom?
OK, I don’t walk in your shoes, I’m a straight white male but all around me I see people who were marginalized up to now walking the streets with a new found confidence, proud of their sexual identity. Are you not one of them?
You keep banging on about respect. What does that mean?
I don’t listen to a lot of people but that doesn’t mean I disrespect them, I just don’t have time for them, life’s too busy. I’m enjoying my own experience.
You’re an artist, you want attention, you want to be noticed but that’s a different matter altogether.
Maybe it’s fame you want.
Obviously you don’t experience oppression yourself then. Opinion on oppression not required so.
I’m a socialist…and a pacifist. I see a world full of oppression.
But there’s a vast difference between being oppressed and feeling alienated.
And there’s a vast difference between Irish society and other regions of the world where oppression can result in imprisonment and death.
You think she wants fame?!
Do you have *any* idea how *dangerous* it can be for a transgender person to stick their head above the parapet?
Tommy, I have been assaulted and more or less molested by a girl and two men for being trans. I have been molested in clubs(ass grabbing, hands near crotch etc.) because I’m seen as an exotic thing.
The worst part of being trans though is how people who totally aren’t transphobic don’t believe you when you open your mouth and tell you that you’re playing the victim. Nothing is more maddening that that. Little is more insidious than trying to stop people from telling others that they’re hurting them.
They run with the hare and hunt with the hound, if they want respect then they will have show it first…
BeLong To and Pavee Point did some great work breaking down barriers between LGBT youth and Travellers.
why would anyone downvote this :/
People who live outside of the mainstream, who are born into minority groups or forced onto the streets aren’t trying to be “special snowflakes”. They’re human beings deserving of your respect. There’s a lot of modern trans identity stuff that goes a bit over my head as an old school activist but I’ve learned the magic of not being a huge dick to someone I don’t fully understand.
What are you complaining about, you have your health, money, job, mobility and friends. Look at the poor immigrants from Syria, they have nothing… Then tell me about minority groups, the more people have the more they want, just count your blessings and say I am glad I’m not from Syria…
Just to point out I’m risking further marginalisation by posting this, as well as the ire of an army of sociopathic stalkers that many outspoken trans women tend to end up running afoul of. I’m very curious where people get the idea I’m somehow “oversensitive”. Because even hearing a trans woman speak is enough to make some people go absolutely crazy, whereas I have to put up with abuse on a regular basis.
I have absolute no Idea where they get the idea you are over-sensitive.
See, I’m not oversensitive. I’ve dealt with a constant stream of ignorant bullshit for 11+ years. That would wear anyone down. Back when I first came out people didn’t accept me at all. I was completely isolated. I was lucky I wasn’t thrown out. I had to suffer through college with no help. I’ve been stalked, harassed, physically assaulted and molested for being trans.
I grasped his “sarcasm”. My reply makes zero sense in the context I took him to be earnest. Please don’t assume that because I’m autistic I’m somehow lacking in insight or perception, because it’s quite the opposite.
The exception proves the rule.
Good luck Leighanna.
Move fast and break things.
i will move forth at a speed of 5.6 sanics
Really interesting article. It’s great to see members of an oppressed group being given a platform to talk about the issues that effect them. It was also great to see some solidarity for the Roma community, who are so often unrelentingly marginalised.
Just to point out that a comment calling me “sir”, “leeroy”, otherwise misgendering me and contesting the idea that transgender people even exist got more upvotes than any comment I’ve posted. This says something about the sort of people commenting here.
so i’m literally to blame for people INTENTIONALLY misgendering me?
people like you create these divisions. not me. you’ve no interest in supporting us, just scolding us when we pop up on your radar.
Hey Leighanna, I just wanted to leave a comment about how sickened I was by the respectability politics being played around the referendum and how disappointed I’ve been in the wake of it with how the larger LGBT community has wound down thanks to ‘a job well done’. People who criticize you for jumping on a table (Oh no! won’t somebody think of the children!?) without wondering what would drive someone to do that, clearly have enough comfort in their lives and little interest in understanding and uplifting the more down trodden amongst us.
Excellent article. Excellent points, and no amount of hand holding of the privileged will make these topics more palatable to them. They’d rather a polite article they can ignore to an angry article that gains any attention, good or bad.
thank you :)
A really important article. Thanks for writing this piece.
Leighanna – I cannot fathom the sufferings you have endured for simply being who you are. The dicks commenting on this are getting cheap thrills out of something that is clearly a very complicated and sensitive issue. It must be very upsetting and I sympathise with you.
@DiarmuidMurphy had a point.
I get that you’re livid. You have a right to be. But you are digging yourself into a hole by your aggressive, patronising attitude. That is pointless. Counterproductive.
Remember that anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured. Use your anger as fuel rather than as fire. That would be my advice anyway.
Wonderful article Leighanna. The continued fragmentation of the LGBTQ community is nothing short of disgusting. White, cis, middle class, gays (and I am a white, cis, middle class, gay) quite happy to step away from the real issues of continued struggle. Happy to celebrate ‘equality’ during pride parades. Forgetting of course that our queer brothers, sisters and others are the ones who put us on the course to equality. Who have stood at the front line, taken the beatings, refusing to be silent. While white cis middle class gays were quite happy to live secret lives behind closed doors.
I really hope to hear a lot more from you in the future. What you show is true leadership, integrity and passion. So much of which is greatly lacking from the LGBTQ movement nowadays.
It’s funny how historical revision is only an issue when it affects a more privilege and secure group.
If you’re not trans, don’t tell trans people what to do.
If you’re trans, understand not every trans person has the same experience and that you shouldn’t throw your people under the bus just to appeal to people who don’t care about you either way.
This entire thing:
Trans people: We’re being killed at an alarming rate, and our role in historical human rights struggles forgotten.
Cis people: STOP BEING SO AGGRESSIVE WE CAN DIE TOO SOMETIMES GOD
>David Carter
LOL yes of course he’d have no agenda in this. Miss Major was definitely there. Whether Marsha P Johnson or Sylvia were there on the night has come under question, but again mostly from the cis white gay men. According to Sylvia she was there, and I’m more likely to be there. If we’re talking about the wider movement surrounding stonewall and early pride, those people were hugely influential./
But you’re coming onto me now saying “actually, trans people weren’t so important.” Look at pictures of the Stonewall riots. There was a large number of people who were NOT WHITE. Yet the movie they’re making does not reflect this. Also, Stonewall was largely used by sex workers as a refuge after a hard day/night’s work. So it was always going to attract more PoC and trans folk.
Also, being “street prostitutes” is absolutely no excuse. Trans women are pushed into sex work for a reason. The fact is that more trans women are killed, the exact mechanism isn’t important. The fact is we are pushed to the margins. I have strong ties with Sex Workers Alliance Ireland and have been aggressively campaigning against Minister Fitzgerald and Turn off the Red Light. I have been advocating for decriminalisation and better outreach programs. I do outreach work myself. There’s a street walker I met recently that i now regularly check in with.
Please don’t you dare tell me what I do or don’t NEED to do to protect my people. If we don’t even raise awareness of these issues, how are we going to solve them? Clearly, you want trans women to be absolutely and utterly silenced, forever, because if this is just “whining” then you must have a problem with us talking about our experiences and history in general – because that’s largely all I’m doing. If even talking about these issues provokes such an aggressive response – where are we?
Anyone who uses terms like “professional victim” has no business being anywhere near activism. It’s a silencing tactic and an insidious one at that. Given the fact that I have been the victim of violence, sexual and emotional abuse please keep your victim blaming nonsense away from me. I’m not even advocating for myself in this article so much as trans women of colour and sex workers.
But then again, I suppose they’re “professional victims” too, despite your concern trolling for street walkers.
Try asking these ‘activists’ where you can see the film in question, that apparently ‘whitewashes’ minorities of the gay rights movement and causes them such outrage…So you can make up your own mind.
And you’ll find that it hasn’t been released yet and no ones seen it, there’s only a trailer.
Issues of censorship or trying to suppress something that you disagree with (which I don’t like) aside… I feel like asking people judging a film (which they haven’t seen) if they themselves were actually there and saw something different, as only someone who actually was, can legitimately protest.
Okay, so let’s take on that “street prostitutes” bollocks. Okay, so because they’re sex workers, they deserve to be killed? You’re saying no now? So we just accept it’s more likely? The ins and outs don’t matter – the fact is that trans women, especially trans women of colour are killed at alarming rates. If they have no choice but to go street walking then that’s part of the problem. When we say we’re being killed we don’t mean some random supervillain is going around assassinating us. But we are being killed, more than cis people. Vastly more proportionately. This is an inescapable fact.
The work to get street walkers “off the streets” would involve ending inequality against trans people. This involves raising awareness to the fact that we DON’T have perfect equality, which you seem dead set against. You seem viciously against trans voices in general.
It sounds like you’ve gone to active effort to combat the trans narrative on this. I can’t imagine how you reached this position out of anything but resentment for transgender people. Let’s get the facts straight about your claim regarding Sylvia Rivera.
“David Carter: Yes, I am afraid that I could only conclude that Sylvia’s account of her being there on the first night was a fabrication. Randy Wicker told me that Marsha P. Johnson, his roommate, told him that Sylvia was not at the Stonewall Inn at the outbreak of the riots as she had fallen asleep in Bryant Park after taking heroin. (Marsha had gone up to Bryant Park, found her asleep, and woke her up to tell her about the riots.) Playwright and early gay activist Doric Wilson also independently told me that Marsha Johnson had told him that Sylvia was not at the Stonewall Riots.”
Okay, so David Carter says that Randy Wicker told him that his Room-mate who just so happens to be Marsha P.Johnson who relayed this story about Sylvia Rivera.
Also – you know what – it’s largely irrelevant whether or not she was there because she was still a part of the community, and a powerhouse of an activist, with her work on STAR and the like. It’s important to remember that these things don’t happen out of nowhere. Were the people I mentioned at the end of this article involved in Stonewall? Probably. Were they heavily involved in the conception of Pride and modern LGBT rights? Absolutely, no question.
You clearly have an agenda here, and not a nice one. It’s also pretty difficult to find pictures of the Riots without any PoC in them, yet the Stonewall movie would have you believing otherwise. There was clearly a significant presence. And let’s not pretend that white people weren’t considered more photogenic in the first place.
amazing that a comment like this could get so many downvotes. obviously, people are of the view that trans people should have no autonomy and their lives should be entirely controlled by people who are not trans.
Stiofain, again, how did you come to the conclusion that she was not there? What sparked this research for you?
Regardless of the specifics, we don’t need LESS positive regard for the trans community and MORE for white cis gay men. But you are advocating for this position. You are fighting against the trans community on this, not just me. Even the woman who disowned me from the group wouldn’t agree with you. In fact you’re showing her exactly the kind of malice she was unwittingly enabling.
I can call you a transphobe because as a trans person, I have a right to call out my oppression. As a cis gay man you have no right to dictate the nature of my struggle whatsoever. You have no right to tell anyone they’re a terrible advocate. You are completely overstepping, not to mention ignoring most of my points.
But you are not trans. It is not your place to say this. While I have had issues with a minority of people in the trans community, they are not on your side on this. You are taking a stance against the wider trans community on more than one front. It’s a really shitty tactic, and you can use it for any minority group. Basically you can just pick the members of a minority that actually do have internalised self loathing/various isms, declare them to be the ideal representatives, and call everyone else from their group a bigot for not supporting them.
As a trans woman I CAN CALL OUT OTHER TRANS WOMEN. Just like if you’re Irish, you can call out other Irish people, but when some English lad starts bitching about the Irish, it starts to take on some colonialistic overtones pretty rapidly.
The real world isn’t about opinions, it’s about lived experiences. The fact is that respectability DOES hurt, it does make it harder to tackle many of the very serious issues we face, and it does leave people behind.
I have no reason to listen to your opinion because you know little about trans issues and nothing about my life and my personal experience of these issues, nor of the issues of the trans women of colour and sex workers I’m advocating for. You are so far from their world, whereas for me, I interact with them on a regular basis. This is my life, my area of expertise.
But because of your let’s face it, vast male entitlement, you believe you have more of a right to talk about my issues than I do. Which you don’t.
Also let’s get something straight – you have no problem with the “abusive nature” people are showing towards me in this thread. Not even the slightest. You only single out the person who is identified as most vulnerable, the underdog. You don’t seem to have any appreciation for this fact or grasp of how the concept of privilege works. It is completely irrational to kick the person who is already at the bottom of the pile, who can do the least damage.
As a white gay man, you get much more than one article on thejournal.ie(which might I add, opened me to a world of abuse that again – you don’t care about, since you don’t care about trans people). You get control of the entire movement, the history. You get more rights, more recognition, and are vastly more safe and respected than we are.
So why you seem to have this divine need to kick trans women even further down the ladder? What the hell is wrong with you. I’m being serious. Only someone who is utterly incapable of empathy or rational analysis of a situation would engage in this sort of behaviour.
Leighanna. http://www.lgbt.ie/information.aspx?contentid=85 Get comfortable and be positive because everything is fine. Sticks and stones may break your bones but words shall never hurt you. Live by that rule. You had it tough we get that but victimizing yourself and having these strong feelings of oppression is not healthy. You really just need to ignore it and stay positive. There are people who have been bullied & raped by their own parents. They have gone on to do great things despite the shit they have been through. It’s because they were mentally strong. Society can’t change. There will be good & bad people. It’s the cycle of life. The LGBT needs to be mentally strong it’s as simple as that. If you want to be productive please write articles for the sake of giving your people mental strength rather than give them excuses to feel terrible. Please make real change.
“Fair indeed is this world we have reached, this world where the sun never burns, where the bee never stings. But the wisdom that won us this lovely home fails us. We who know no pain have forgotten pity. We look with scorn upon those who still struggle in the blood and mud of earth, as we once did. We have grown proud, and pride breeds corruption.”
~ Rhiannon, first branch of the Mabinogion(Evangeline Walton ver.).
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