Families in the 100k bracket believe it or not are propping up the while system. Who do you suppose pays for childcare when both these parents are out working to prop up all the Dole cheats. I certainly won’t be punished for working so some waste of space can sit on their @ss and take take take. families earning 100k are taking the brunt of the pain in this country. If foreigners can take jobs in this country there’s no reason Irish people can’t. Dole should be abolished for those between 18 and 30 and replaced with education schemes. when you contribute to society then you should be allowed draw dole when you hit hard times.

So a couple breaks their asses getting educated, put in long hours at work to obtain well paid jobs, and now you want to discriminate against them. A joint income of €100000 for a family living in Dublin doesnt go that far. More crap from Sein Fein targetting those who try to do well for their family.

” families earning 100k are taking the brunt of the pain in this country.”

PMSL! Yep, lots of 100k families living in cars right now.

People who earn over 100k pay enough tax already. Why would any professional stay in a country that would enforce such a tax system? we would be forced to take doctors and other professionals from 3rd world countries as ours would emigrate to Canada & & Oz.

” Why would any professional stay in a country that would enforce such a tax system?”

Many do. I would gladly pay higher taxes for better services. Look at the Nordics.

Except for water?

John, it’s not like Gerry’s supporters are employing people or generating much wealth in the economy. If Gerry imposes these kind of policies, just think of the chaos after all professionals move abroad due to some delusional man like Gerry imposing his patriotic limit of what is appropriate for someone to earn.

The economy is much better than how it was six years ago. We’ve all taken pay cuts, but for the first time in years we are busy again. I suppose to someone like Gerry, lumping another tenner on the dole each week is a pay rise.

“Except for water?”

The water charge is not a tax, which is why revenue aren’t collecting it. I’ll continue to pay for my water t hrough general taxation. I won’t be paying twice.

its getting tragic now for the shinners :D

That’s ok so, under a left wing government you’ll be paying more for your water through general taxation irrelevant of how much you use without any consideration of environmental impacts because there will be no meters, but that’s ok, you are happy to pay more money for a worse system just because you have no foresight

Ok Seamus what about a family with combined earnings of 55k in a council house as opposed to a family on 100k who bought during ‘boom’? is it still fair to take the child benefit from the latter?

Its not a SF policy. Its my belief. I dont represent any party. In fact I have always voted FG in the past to my shame.

FC, you clearly are refusing to pay higher taxes for better services. Ie WATER. Don’t be lying to suit your agenda now.

Old Gordon As someone with experience of emigration I can promise you, droves of well paid people are not going to leave the country and their homes and families and well paid job just because they have to pay a little more tax

The idea behind Child Benefit is on the case the husband is withholding money from the wife,she needs a guaranteed income from the State to support her children,and that scenario can happen with wealthy husbands on high income too

James Just to be clear I do not advocate taking child benefit off a couple earning a combined income of 55k. Taking child benefit offpeople or coupleswith a combined income of 100k could help those in the lower wage bracket.

Seamus – you are aware how many doctors are leaving these shores annually? Less money in their pocket is hardly going to lessen the number.

Paul Do you have proof of those numbers as doctors in Ireland are amongst the highest paid in the world. Perhaps they are leaving because the govt and hse are closing all the hospitals and theres no work here. A family member of my own who works in health moved to england after our local hospital was closed

Typical Shinnernomics tax everybody that’s put in years of college and invested heavily in educating themselves or have worked there backsides off to achieve success in there Careers only to be taxed to hilt to pay for those who expect to have everything handed to them whilst putting nothing back !!

Graduates and high earning people will go abroad to find work that gives fair rewards for there efforts ! Not stay here to hand it over to feed in the SF welfare state !!

We all pay tax and that’s unavoidable, SF have no economic cop on and go for the easy option of taxing the high earners , it feeds in to there working class voter base

They have nothing new to offer and have nothing to offer in the way of taxation they are more then happy to keep USC as it stands , one of the biggest drains on all workers pay cheques !!

Seamus – http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/survey-shows-rise-in-number-of-young-doctors-emigrating-1.1910747
http://www.imt.ie/opinion/2015/03/conditions-stupid.html
There you go, but of course less money in their pocket is going to make them stay, madness, fantasy economics.

You should join us on our local canvass In Fingal- you will see that the working poor are suffering.

The working poor is who you describe – the reason why SF have done so well- no one else cares a toss about them.

Reduce Child Benifet to E50 per child. The savings then should be used to prop up FIS and weekly dole where there are child dependents – as it stands E29.80 per child on dole is paltry. As things get better perhaps look at widening the tax credit bands where children are dependent for those outside the FIS bracket.

A family with an income of €101,000 pay €35,7000 tax as it stands

Is it fair to go back to them for more ?

A family with an income of €65,000 pay €19,000 in tax

A family with an income of €50,000 pay €14,000 in tax

Going on those figures would it fair to say the Family on €101,000 pay a substantial and fair amount of tax as it stands ??

FC your obviously in the dole. If a couple go out and earn 100k they are taxed 42% of that as well as prsi and the Universal social charge that pays for your council gaff and dole and medical card. this would leave them with less than 50k. let’s say they have 2 children, childcare us 1800 per month in dublin so that takes 21600 out of that leaving 28000 approx. Now as they both work they most likely won’t be sponging off the state and getting a free gaff so a Mortgage would be as verge in Dublin 1200 a month that would be 14400 a year leaving the rest 13600 to Cover Ancillary bills such as food, electricity and educating their children so they don’t end up like the freeloading lowlifes who get all of the above for NOTHING along with there dole spending money of 200 per week so they can buy their smokes and bags of cans while they watch Jeremy Kyle. The difference between the dole cheats and those on 100k is simply work Ethic. lowlifes have made a career out of living of people who actually work.

Well put garwig. Just cos people earn ‘lots’ of money doesn’t make them wealthy. We’ve a household income of €80k approx but we aren’t well off. We can afford a new car and a few holidays but we’re not wealthy by any stretch.

It is morally and economically indefensible to give a house on over 100k child support.

You For Connolly are actually making me reconsider voting Sinn Fein as it’s the likes of you with your Celtic Jerseys that put me off the party in the first place.

A family on €101k pay €35,700 in tax back into the system

A family on dole put €0 back into the system , they are actually costing the state upwards of €35,000 a year with dole payments and housing and all other handouts

So SF now want go back to the family who earn €101k and take some more off them

Well typical right wing policies keep the lower income families in a never ending spiral of debt to keep a roof over their heads and food in their kids mouths while giving tax breaks that benefit the few on the other end of the spectrum. The simple fact is you cant have rich people without having poor people. Right wing policies will always benefit the rich with this in mind. If you want to have a fair system that does not favour one over the other a medium has to be found that balances fair taxation and policies from both left and right wing mindsets. Capitalists who influence major policies of govt parties will never allow this to happen of course, as long as they pull the strings in the background the poor will forever have a capitalist boot on their neck to keep them down. While this great recovery that fg/ lab continually boast about looks good on paper it is only benefitting the few. If the economy is in such great shape then now is the time to put more money into the pockets of the middle and lower income workers as it is these people who spend more of their earnings which in turn will boost the economy more.

Doctors are not leaving because they are poorly paid. Get sense man

Are people on 101,000 really paying 36% tax on their total earnings?

Those in the paye system are !! Those in public service pay more due to the 7% public services pension levy

Garwig Would you prefer to be on the dole or earn 100k per year. I know which I would choose

seamus – so you now accept lots are leaving these shores? so how is paying even more tax going to convince them to stay? I did not say they were leaving over pay, but i actually know several who have.

Don’t forget Seamus, Sinn Fein are determined to make these people pay more…. Boggles the mind doesn’t it.

I never took Dole in my life, my point is there are plenty of people who choose not to work and expect everything to be handed to them. If your earning 100k a year I can assure you that you are earning it and your taxes are paying for a load of freeloaders. if your on the dole you pay nothing….! Now let me clarify if someone falls on hard times they should be supported but those that choose to never work and take handouts off the state are just leeches in my opinion

Léargas – We are already paying for our water through VAT / Car Tax / VRT ???
So we are currently being taxed on the double by Irish Water …… A Chara .

Paul There are no jobs in health here. Doesnt that explain why they are leaving. You cannot prove that paying more tax would make them all flock abroad and leave their homes and families. It doesnt make any sense.

Is that you Diarmuid? Once again I do not represent any party.

A bit simplistic Garwig to call them all leeches. There certainly are some…about 3%…97% employment is considered full employment. Again I would much prefer to be on 100k than on the dole or even 40k or 30k for that matter

Ireland have lost huge numbers of qualifies medical staff to the Middle East and Australia because they are better paid abroad , which includes not being taxed near as much as they would back home

Rte are running a show on Irish Garda now working in the Australian police , the main thing coming from these former Garda on the show is better wages and lower taxes !!

Now tell us we aren’t losing people abroad because of high taxation !

Increasing it more will only cause more of the same , a complete brain drain of good resources and knowledge from ireland will happen if we keep on taxing the life out of high earners !!

Seamus – there are lots of positions for doctors in Ireland, it may be inconvenient to your agenda, but it is true. It is you who makes no sense, how will deducting more tax from a profession that are already leaving these shores in significant numbers help them to stay?

hows home rule going for the shinners :D

About half the country effectively contribute nothing to the tax base when you take benefits into account…

The point is those who work earn everything they have and those who sit on the dole all their lives are just freeloaders. I would be better off on the dole but prefer to have some dignity and not be a parasite. Those who pay taxes are carrying all these spongers. If you want something go out and earn it. The dole should be CUT CUT CUT the longer you are on it.

@Seamus. My politics are to the left. I strongly believe in one health system for all that is free at the point of access. I believe in free education. I believe in social housing and in ensuring that the most vulnerable are looked after by the state with dignity. I would pay more taxes for this. However, I don’t believe in being punished for working. I want to get something back for what I put in. At the moment all I get for my tax and prsi contributions is child benefit. I am denied access to health services as I don’t have a medical card. I pay full wack for my daughter to go to university. I probably won’t get a state pension. I have no problem with others getting benefits. It’s just that I would also like to benefit from my contributions to the social kitty.

In your scenario next to nothing would change, they would only pay the higher rate of tax on the 1,000 above the 100,000 mark.

Anne Marie Im not sure why that comment is aimed at me. I dont have a problem with that

For those who waffle on about the Nordic countries having great services – the Nordic countries also have high taxes. From a 2015 OECD report – for the average worker (Average wage in Ireland is 16,000 euro for a single worker, 32,000 for one with 2 children)

“Ireland has the 8th lowest tax wedge among the 34 OECD member countries. The average single worker in Ireland faced a tax wedge of 28.2% in 2014, compared with the OECD average of 36.0%”
for those with families

“Ireland has one of the lowest tax wedges in the OECD, for an average married worker with two children at 9.9%, which compares with the OECD average of 26.9%”

In effect, to get services at Nordic levels, we should increase the tax on the average single worker by 8%, or by 17% for those with families….. All the Nordic countries have much higher income tax levels, which kick in a much lower income levels than in Ireland. Of course, this may ultimately be beneficial, as people get better schools, healthcare etc. It is simply a lie to say that we can get better services by just “taxing the rich”, as there aren’t actually that many of them to pay the extra tax, and “the rich” are often more mobile, and might just move to the UK, Australia, Germany etc.

http://www.oecd.org/tax/tax-policy/taxing-wages-ireland.pdf

(of course, in Nordic countries they also pay for water, property tax, etc etc)

Anne-Marie – you already benefit from your contributions to the social kitty – who do you think pays for the roads, the public lighting, the pay of teachers and gardai and nurses? You do. Yes the A&E are awful, and you have to pay for each night in hospital – but if you have cancer you will get cared for, you will get chemotherapy, radiotherapy, you will see a cancer specialist – and you won’t have to pay a fraction of the hundreds of thousands it could cost. You pay for a legal system, judges, prisons to lock away murderers. People are so blasé about these things – but you should see how it works in a failed state – try and visit Somalia, or the Congo where people don’t pay into the “social kitty”.

Taxes are the price we pay for civilisation.

I honestly believe this country would be far better served in tackling waste when it comes to public spending rather than increasing taxation. It’s not like our public services are that great and it’s not like they are badly paid; quite the opposite.

That’s what we need, accountability not exacerbating the problems by throwing more money at the Unions.

Gordon, that’s waffle. Of course everyone is in favour of “tackling waste” – you don’t hear too many politicians coming out say “I’d like to pour 20 million euro down the toilet”. Every party, SF, FF, FG, Labour can all waffle on about how much money they would save in efficiencies, but it ultimately is just waffle.

Every large organisation has some level of inefficiency – whether that’s the public service, or a multinational like Microsoft, or pfizer, or boston scientific – simply ask someone who works for a large organisation about the difficulties of getting things done. It’s quite simply false to imagine that simply something is publicly owned and run that it is inefficient – look at the inefficient banks in Ireland, or look at the efficient trains in France or Switzerland.

If nurses and gardai are so well paid – why are people with permanent jobs leaving the country?

David – but inefficiency in the Irish public sector is an enormous issue and to dismiss it is nonsense. Nobody is saying there are no inefficiencies in the private sector, but they are incomparable to the public sector.

So how do you think a family earning 30,000e jointly are faring?

This Article has proven that Hugh O’Connell listens to ‘Morning Ireland’ on RTE Radio 1 !!!

Why should inheritance tax be be cut? It falls mainly on people with large assets – ie richer people. There are already generous allowances for direct descendants.

Cut tax on work (ie income tax), increase tax on capital – isn’t that a basic principle of left wind economics? Isn’t that what we need to encourage work, rather than just benefiting the rich?

Kieran – variable rate mortgages in Ireland cost more because the variable rates subsidise 2 things – 1 – those on a tracker mortgage (the banks are loosing money on these mortgages), and 2 – the fact that banks can’t repossess houses. In Europe, if you don’t pay your mortgage, your house is quickly taken off you. This means the banks have much lower costs associated with failing loans. The cost of the unpaid mortgage has to go somewhere – ie onto those with variable loans.

In effect, what you want is people on tracker mortgages to pay more, or you want to make it easier for banks to repossess houses. I don’t think either of those options would be popular or remotely likely.

Yes David..they cost more..but is the eurozone a single market or not? Everything seems to cost more in Ireland and all the extra cost cant be put down to being on the periphery of Europe
I really think mortage rates should be front and centre as an election issue..the banks have been bailed out by the very people they’re gouging..and despite all Noonan bluff and bluster they are laughing ..in this case all the way to the bank..

So we should let people struggle along and starve because of the actions of a few? Maybe we should tell the families of Foxrock not to come looking for help because one of their neighbours murdered a poor Woman for his own sexual gratification..

Nope, not FG, just anti Sein Fein.Just look at how well they are perfroming in the Northern Assembly.

David, at least when the Gardai came to Foxrock they did so with out fear of being attacked for doing their job.

Ah yea, what with the convenient “crisis”.

T_witter_name, you’re gas. What mental gymnastics does it take to justify an old woman freezing, who can’t afford her bills because of where she’s from. Did you skip lunch today or something?

Missing my point, it is absolutely disgraceful that an elderly woman would be in this position. The point I was making is that charity shoud start from your own locality. I personally would not stand by if this was happening in my area. It is easy to just start blaming everyone else including the government but much harder to actually go do something about it. But then again sticking your hand out and getting something for nothing is the easy option Sein Fein tend to support.

Emigration was always an active policy in this state.

It was viewed as a solution rather than a problem.

FG and FF and those before them chose a static economy rather than a reformed one where they and their friends might lose a grip on the State..

poor ould shinners out in the cold yet again

@andrew halpin james goodyear. Hands ups i was reading this and another article about Enda Kenny and went back to check author. Obviously went into wrong article. Seems your right Hugh and Ronan have changed desks for the day. My bad!!!!

@Hidden, i have the same problem with FG and FF.

* “taxed an extra 7 quid in the hundred on what the earn OVER 100 grand”

In reality how much is it actually going to raise. It makes great soundbites but is it going to generate enough funds to allow them to get rid of the various other taxes and have enough left over to complete what he promised. All these pre election promises by all the parties have to be costed properly

Nobody should pay more than 50% tax!! Can you qualify that? Do you mean solely income tax? Are all the other Levys a charge or a tax? is Value added Tax a tax or a charge? are licenses( bundle them all under this) a tax or a charge? When you pay for ultilities( not just esb, phone and TV) , is it a charge or a tax? There is also VAT on utilites, is that a tax or a charge? Are fees paid to state departments a tax or a charge?
Can you tell me how the monies are redistributed, as this is key to whether it’s a tax or a charge? when I had my own company some years back, I paid myself a wage that would cover my family living costs, at the end of each year there was always a profit. Sometimes it was not so good and other times it was great. I always paid the tax and took the money. Because my day to day wage was around €600 gross I would go into the high bracket every year for most of the amount drawn. That meant a tax of 51 or 52% when all levy’s were applied before any accountant fees.
While I don’t wholly disagree with your statement, a charge like this will depend on who is in the department if Sinn Fein do get into government. I do have the amount everyone earned in a spreadsheet and the paid tax for 2014 thanks to an info request under the Data protection Act and believe me they will know what result in revenue every % point increase in tax has. This can be refined but it is not the main source of tax revenue so I really think that gerry’s statement is electioneering and won’t bring about any real change.

It’s 7 euro eannan it isn’t unfair. I can’t recall one government in the history of the state that has gave back to lower and middle class families.. It’s always the rich that get richer and corporate elite. What’s that 7 euro to someone who earn over 100k? Absolutely nothing.

7 bye elections in the current Dail term. Not one win for the Shinners. But never mind.

Ein Reich, Ein Volk, Ein Jarry.

Pie in the sky rubbish. The “ordinary” people of Ireland are the ones this man will take from, the workers, the people who organise their lives according to what they have and can afford.
Off to Greece with you. They’re still looking for a fantasy government over there.

They will be in government according to themselves only if they are the largest party. It is the sheerest fantasy to believe they will be. Enjoy your pipedream.