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A SINN FÉIN councillor has defended using the term ‘West Brits’ to describe the people who run Irish rugby.
Micheál Mac Donncha, who is also running for Sinn Fein at the next election, said the Facebook comment reflects the views of a lot of people he would talk to.
The Donaghmede-based councillor made the comment on Sinn Féin senator David Cullinane’s Facebook page on Saturday evening following Japan’s shock victory over South Africa at the World Cup.
Commenters on Cullinane’s status were lamenting the fact that Amhrán na bhFiann was not played prior to the Irish rugby team’s victory over Canada earlier in the day.
Mac Donncha said the reason for this was an “inferiority complex and anti-national attitude of the West Brits who still run Irish rugby”.
Ireland’s rugby team uses ‘Ireland’s Call’ as its designated anthem whenever they are playing outside the country. The song and Amrán na bhFiann are both played when they are playing at home.
Ireland’s Call was commissioned by the IRFU in the 1990s and is intended to reflect that the Irish rugby side, unlike the soccer teams, represents the whole island of Ireland.
‘West Brit’ is a derogatory term used to describe Irish people who take an interest in British affairs or are condescending towards nationalist issues.
Speaking to TheJournal.ie today Mac Donncha defended the remark, saying:
It was a Facebook comment, it wasn’t a public statement. I think I reflect the attitude of a lot of people who regard the fact there is no playing of the national anthem as being an anti-national attitude.
He said it was a personal view, not Sinn Féin’s and reflects the views of a lot of people he would talk to.
Fine Gael councillor Neale Richmond condemned the remarks, describing them as “petty sniping”.
He said: “This is really disappointing from an elected Sinn Fein representative, at a time when the whole island can join together to get behind our rugby team, he chooses to go for a cut at the many volunteers that administer rugby across Ireland, North and South.”
“The term West Brit is extremely derogatory and had no place in a modern, progressive Ireland.”
“It is important that we respect the cultural sensitivities of all the men and women who represent Ireland at rugby with such pride and this sort of petty sniping has no place at such an exciting time for Irish rugby fans.”
When it was put to him that some people find the term offensive, MacDonncha said:
That may be but there it is.
The Dublin Bay North Dáil candidate said he did not consider the term offensive.
Asked if he was referring to the IRFU in his comment, MacDonncha would only say: “If the cap fits, wear it.”
He declined to comment further. Sinn Féin did not respond to a request for comment at the time of publication.
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“It was a Facebook comment, it wasn’t a public statement.”
What an oxymoron.
Do you think Facebook is not public?. God bless your little cotton socks.
What a moron, full stop. Thicko…
@HRH The Brummie, you may have missed the quotation marks in my post.
feckin’ idiot
He’s 100% right too, like it or not
No, he’s not, Jon. It’s an opinion. An arsehole opinion at that.
Does that mean that the masses of Irish people who watch the English premier league and support British football teams are also “West Brits” , cop on!
Rugby has done more to unite Ireland than any political dribble and point scoring . Rugby goes beyond sport, it teaches manners and respect something sadly lacking in our society today
British teams like Celtic? Beloved of ‘ra skangers the country over.
Can we please NOT assume everyone who supports Celtic is a “skanger”.
There is nothing wrong with supporting Celtic. I’d go so far as saying I can sooner understand supporting Celtic than a team in the English Premier league.
Yes, Celtic is located in Scotland, but it’s Irish roots cannot be denied. Those roots are the very reason it exists in the first place considering it was started to raise funds to feed the Irish immigrants living in abject poverty in Glasgow who, up to that point, only had access to Protestant run soup kitchens. A model began with Hibernian in Edinburgh and then followed by Celtic in Glasgow.
And to this day charity is something Celtic takes very seriously and continues to support as part of it’s ethos, and it really does do a lot both locally and internationally.
And it annoys me when people seem to think supporting them is a bad thing. Because I don’t believe it is.
Let’s not tar all Celtic fans with the same brush.
The assumption is well founded Tricia.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/celtic-write-fans-reminding-wash-6451792
You’re kidding right? One fan in one section.
If anything it actually demonstrates how the Fan liaison officer listened to the fans problems and made an attempt to resolve the issue
Let’s face it, no one likes to be near a person that is unable to recognise their body odour issues.
I think the club should be commended personally.
@Daisy ……<3
So, if the anthems were to be played, would he advocate the singing of God save the Queen as well as our own anthem? Absolutely ridiculous and clueless statement. I am proud republican, but those are the sort of comments I would usually associate with unionists spouting. And for his interest, Michael Cusack, one of the founders of the GAA, used to play and even captained a rugby team. The IRFU predates partition and our national anthem, so why turn it into the FAI/IFA debacle? Rugby and the west-brit IRFU has unified the island far more than either of those two organisations
Why would he advocate singing God save the Queen? It wouldn’t happen. I can almost guarantee you every player playing for Ireland from up north are not unionists etc.. It’d only nationalists and people down here that acc follow the rugby beacuse it represents unity of the country and we all know who hates that….
I’m pretty sure that God save The Queen was played when there was five nations matches in Belfast in the 1950′s. There was a protest about it from those south of the border.
You’re bloody clueless, Supernova. I think you’ll find that the Irish rugby team is actually well supported by unionists. Not to mention that the establishment of the IRFU predates partition.
Will this story make the cover of the independent and rte news? I wouldn’t he surprised
You haven’t got a clue Supernova.
That is true Reg, and to be honest I enjoy hearing our own anthem at home games. Rugby is still disproportionately played by Protestants up North, so I would assume there would be some who are Unionist inclined. I notice that the likes of Trimble and Best never sing the anthem, which is understandable, and the fact that they respect the anthem is much more than can be said for many sports. But playing it an away game is essentially saying that those players who feel loyal to a British or an Ulster identity are actually being cajoled into representing the 26 counties by playing the anthem of the 26 counties. James McClean didn’t stand to attention when they played God Save the Queen for Wigan, which is an English club. I think the current setup follows a similar consideration.
What an astonishing amount of ignorance Supernova. Thanks for confirming what we all knew. Protestants and Unionists have played for Ireland for well over 100 years. Trevor Ringland for example a unionist politician, Nigel Carr, Davy Tweed, WJMB, Dave Irwin, Paddy Johns, Keith Crosson, the list goes on and on. The team has played as Ireland from the 19th century through the rising, war of independence, civil war. world wars and the troubles. Paddy Mayne who founded the SAS played for Ireland. What a legendary butter he was! Everybody follows the team as Ireland. Politics has always been left at the door.
I’m a hurling fan first and foremost but will support Ireland in everything, Ulster is a 9 county province of Gaelic origin so if you consider yourself an ulster man or a munster man then you are also an Irish man those identities are inseparable and always will be. Ulster also includes the population of donegal cavan and monaghan where Tommy bowe is from. Some players just don’t sing anthems.
Antrim, the entire country structure and governance was put in place by the British. If you find the British influences so unpalatable, then stop definitely yourself by a British construct.
That’s total rubbish no more british contract than the provinces of France are, Antroim means lone ridge in gaelic the Irish provinces are gaelic and always existed in gaelic culture yes they were somewhat fluid due to warring kings but they always existed and were always Irish if you knew anything at all
As I said thats totally irrelevant you are simply taking about the solidification and demarcation of existing gaelic areas on non gaelic administrative maps, that doesn’t mean anything as I said they were fluid yes but always existed in gaelic Ireland. There was 5 gaelic provinces in Ireland long before any english soldier stepped foot in our land, in the time of the Gaelic high kings this included our current four Mumha, Ulaidh, Connachta, Laighin the borders were slightly different yes but again that’s irrelevant. You talk about shiring with regards to counties but again most of the settlements in Ireland such as Kilkenny existed long ago in 1200, “church of Cainnech,” or Louth in 1200, the county is named after the Irish god Lugh (now spelled) Lugh). Louth existed before the so called shiring as did Antroim it just wasn’t defined on some English administrative map.
You’re moving the goalposts now talking about provinces.
Some counties have a historical basis, but certainly not all of them.
The idea that there have always been 32 counties is completely erroneous. Most of them were devised on an arbitrary basis by an English civil servant.
I was talking about the provinces originally as it was clearly a rugby topic, you brought up the old erroneous and irrelevant formalisation of demarcation in a non gaelic administration . Absolutely totally false, the nine years war between gaelic kings and England only ended after 1600. All of our Gaelic/Viking settlements after which those counties were simply based upon were in place already some for hundreds of years. If I go over to France tomorrow and slightly change the boundaries of place where a French settlement has been for hundreds of years it makes no difference it’s still French in origin.
You’re talking bollocks now in fairness.
That there are 32 counties is the result of an English administrative procedure. No “counties” existed before this. Of course there were settlements, a settlement is simply a place inhabited by people, they are not necessarily administrative areas. There may have been kingdoms, and regions and so on but without the English there would be no “Antrim County Board” for example, you could have just as easily ended up being “North Downshire”.
You’re obviously not Irish and haven’t a clue about our history, only the small bits that fit your ignorant narrative and have to resort to insults to try and make your case. So jog on I’m done with you. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
The anthem of the IRFU was GSTQ way into the 30s
FFS – the Normans introduced the entire concept of counties. How the heck do people not know this? This is Inter Cert/Junior Cert stuff.
History is not a constricted or based on one brief moment where nothing is expounded on that only gives a totally false narrative. The general large scale context of the boundaries of the provinces of Ireland were in place for centuries before which is a fact, This clearly gave the general outer boundary lines for the spheres of influence of all the large Gaelic and Gaelic/Viking settlements and extensive spheres of influence and yes administration of (not in any way a Norman invention ) that also existed within them. Would the areas known as counties today have been exactly the same of course not but you can be damn sure there would still have been a limerick city and a large sphere of influence that extended beyond it directly to provincial borders. As I said the occupying administration may have simply demarcated these obvious pre existing facts on a non gaelic map and used a non gaelic term in doing so. However our provinces were gaelic in origin fact. All our settlements were Gaelic and Gaelic-Viking in origin and the general boundaries and spheres of influence already existed. A bit like building an entire car and some outsider coming along and deciding to add bigger tyres and stick a different badge on it an claim it as his own work.
There are many different aspects to being Irish, we aren’t all Irish speaking, church going, GAA fanatics. For an elected member of Sinn Fein to insult people that don’t meet his definition of Irishness speaks volumes.
Where’re you From.
That’s a strange name, where’re you from?
Did you hurl for Kilkenny, was your father’s name Tom?
What school were you at, what job do you do,
Tell me, where’re you from, I’d like to know you.
I’m Irish, I say, what’s it to you
If my ma was a plumber, or my father a Jew.
But where are you from, what county I mean,
I need to find out if we share a gene.
I never made my communion or caught a high ball
Or learned to speak Irish, Slainn go fóill.
I don’t play the fiddle, or the bodhrain
Us Protestant folk are very withdrawn.
I’m not a lickspittle to our neighbours queen
I’m as Irish as you, or a Dublin jackeen,
Please don’t define me by county of birth
Where I was reared is not what I’m worth.
Ireland is rapidly changing its hue
Welcoming Muslims and the odd Hindu too.
And now that were all a part of dot com
There’s no need to be asking, “Where’re you from?”
©Barton Hill 2015
That’s a great poem.
Goes a bit astray in terms of sentiment towards the end, but a great poem all the same.
This idiot does not seem to realise that the Rugby Team represent the whole island of Ireland not just the Republic.
Yeah but we’d do plenty well with the just the players on this side of the border.. Why shouldn’t we be able to play both anthems at least at away games?? Doesn’t make sense to be
Supernova, reading your comments, there comes a point where when you’ve typed (or attempted to type), “that doesn’t make sense to me” where the onus is on you to become more informed instead of taking a stance where your defence is that you don’t know better.
This team is not the Republic of Ireland. The IRFU covers north & south of the border. We have a stronger team united. Learning to treat each other equally North and South is the overall objective and rugby has made huge strides for the Island in that regard. For more information, please consult your local internet, but not Facebook where you opinions may only be reinforced, by the type of like minded folk who you friend or follow…
All I won’t to know is why it’s so hard for the irfu to play both anthems at away games.
supernova if two anthems were to be played at Ireland games, logically one of those anthems would have to be God save the queen
so you agree the tricolour and the anthem should never be let near the rugby team? I personally would feel much happier with such a scenario. rugby fans in general dont seem to get it. they keep bringing the wrong flag on tour.
Amhràn na bhFiann is the anthem of the Republic of Ireland.
The rugby team represents Ireland, being the island herself and a few small islands around her.
For more information, please check an encyclopedia – probably best to keep off the internet until you’ve read up a bit more.
Pretty decent of him to showcase how stupid he can be before the election though… Most politicians leave that display until after the votes have been cast
It’s actually the anthem of Ireland
“Amhràn na bhFiann is the anthem of the Republic of Ireland”
Its the anthem of Ireland the country (which happens to be a republic), the Republic of Ireland is a football team.
Back to rugby lets just get a better song than Irelands Call, (definitely not Danny Boy) and ignore SF’s glorious facebook freedom fighters.
ciaran, the country’s name is just Ireland or Eire if you prefer.
Supernova: you go ahead and sing God Save the Queen before rugby matches, I prefer Ireland’s Call to either divisive anthem.
God Save the Queen does not represent me or most Irish rugby players, just like Amhran na bhfiann does not represent the majority of Ulster players.
I don’t understand why anyone north or south of the border would want GSTQ for anybody other than England? it’s the English anthem, not the Welsh or Scottish anthem or even the British anthem, northern Ireland need to come up with their own anthem if they want it and we can play each one in turns, don’t care if it’s the sash or whatever
Actually it’s technically not the English anthem, England simply don’t have a national anthem but use GSTQ in place of a national anthem.
Japan beat South Africa not New Zealand!
I’m an Antrim man from the island of Ireland and have an Irish passport and Irish citizenship no different than my friends from Dublin or Kerry, which is recognised in the good friday agreement despite an illegal fake border and would love to play for Ireland. I would want Irelands national anthem to be played but have no problem with accommodations being either. You are making assumptions about those players many or all may feel like I do.
Davy Tweed
Spot on comment.
Was in the Glens last weekend
pervert?
Reminds me of the chap with a sign “no foreign games” at the Ireland England match in Croke park who was wearing a Celtic jersey.
Haha! That was priceless Paul. Some surly inner city scobie showing what true ignorance really is. He really got shown up that day. And what a great day it was, the GAA helped make that day special and rightly got a huge amount of Kudos for it. And to top of all we thrashed England later that evening. One of the great sporting days.
Makes me laugh every time I see it!
Perhaps you were the scobie, and he the supreme satirist, ne c’pas ?
Sounds like he’s bitter that the IRFU accomplished what he and his party have so far failed to do – unite Ireland.
I didn’t realise they beat New Zealand as well!!!!! fair play to the little fellas on trumping South Africa AND New Zealand then!
Busy weekend for them!
I think they played their second team against NewZealand!
He looks like the Sid the sloth from ice age
He’s a ringer for Peter Griffin
He’s not wrong
he is wrong
Well he kind of is…. Rugby is an All Island sport, not republic of Ireland, so why would we play the Rep. of Ireland Anthem?? Even though I don’t like Ireland’s Call, its the national anthem for the Rugby, so let’s move on….. silly comment from your man!!
Ireland’s call is not a national anthem it is a song written for the IRFU. Basketball, boxing, rowing and other sports are all island sports and use Amhrán na bhFiann is used for these sports
@Wayne All Ireland sports if you ignore the athletes that declare for GB and sing god save the queen. Rugby is completely representative
@Shane as is their right under the good Friday agreement, they have options on their citizenship. Those sports are all Ireland sports and welcome athletes from any of the 32 counties in the island regardless of their political or religious beliefs. That is pretty much the definition of being representative. Those rugby players that are uncomfortable with the anthem are free not to sing it but, they do play under the flag of the Republic of Ireland so your point is well pointless
Wayne, they *don’t* play under the flag of the Republic of Ireland. They play under a four provinces flag.
No they do not play under the tricolour. The flag of the IRFU is different.
they do when they are in Dublin. this is the issue for many. i would prefer if they never played the anthem or flew the tricolour rather than the current arrangement.
Derek, you should probably tell the IRFU that and the organisers of the World Cup and six nations, because the appear to constantly get it wrong and fly the tricolour above the stadium and use it in pool group graphics
Huh, thats interesting Wayne, I’m looking at the RWC site right now and no sign of a tricolour anywhere relating to Ireland!
They fly both flags for home matches Wayne. The flag used to depict Ireland for the world cup pools is the IRFU flag.
If Ireland ever play in Belfast they would play both Irelands Call and God Save the Queen as the national anthems.
Dave you mustn’t have been in ravenhill in the 2007 World Cup warm up match againist Italy Ireland’s call was the only national anthem I heard that night !
No Wayne, I had forgotten about that.
It’s quite possible that they have changed it. I do know however that a friend of my fathers once watched an international there and he sat down for God Save the Queen (I think it was in the 50s or 60s)
Not true. Hockey is an all-Ireland sport that also uses Ireland’s Call
Obviously what he’s saying politically motivated and should be more or less ignored. But… Ireland’s Call is an embarrassing sham and I cringe as it’s played. Compares very badly to the other anthems.
Ireland s call is a joke my English mate’s take the piss out of me over it
I am so Fûčķing depressed reading this.
Whatever happened to telling people when they were as dumb as Fûčķ.
SF – No Economic policies
No jobs policies.
No export policies
No skills and training policies
No understanding of basic economics.
All we get is:
“Ha ha you West Brit.”
And some dumb Fûčķing prix will vote for them.
“You don’t support sf? – pffftt west brit”
Smell the glove Nigel. Lol.
As a SF supporter once said to me:
“You don’t support us (SF) cause you don’t define your nationality the same way we do.”
Too right.
You should have seen the cover we wanted to use, it wasn’t a glove, I can assure you.
…..& I defend calling him an inbred-fcuk.
Ireland’s Call was necessary because Sinn Fein’s other half bombed Ulster members of the Irish team when they were coming down to train (for an all-island team).
I will listen SF’s views after I hear the apology to Nigel Carr, etc.
Alan the IRA didn’t bomb members of the Irish Rugby Team- members of the Irish Rugby were caught up in the assassination of Justice Maurice Gibson – a victim of the conflict which thankful is over due partly to the efforts of my party & others. Cllr Mc Donacha was expressing his opinion of the management of Irish Rugby.
What a narrow-minded imbecile. And these are the people who want to unite Ireland? Good luck with that attitude.
Why give Pond Life like him the publicity? The absolute hypocrisy of Sinn Féin in their lack of support for a truly All Ireland professional sports team is beyond understanding. Their blatant sectarianism shines through. Thick and ignorant. Rugby Union is beyond their small minds. Is Westbrit intended as an insult? That’s hilarious.
Sure isn’t Fine Gael the West Brit Tory Party of Ireland.
No, that’s Labour.
This is the particular sort of moron that SF have in droves within the party who are still reliving the conflicts of the past in order to justify their continued existence. People who think changing the spelling of their name into Irish qualifies them to be more Irish than the next.
He’ll want to stay away from Cameron with that face!
If this gink actually did make these remarks then he is a stupid c you next Tuesday and is undeserving of a vote for himself, and has done no favours at all for his party. It is this aggressive faux nationalism, if you will, which is preventing me from considering a vote for Sinn Fein. These people should cop onto themselves and understand that there should be room for everybody in a so called democratic Republic. It is not just for those who seek to ‘return’ to a past which hasn’t existed for centuries. I refuse to be know by some strange gaelic version of my name, I have no desire to speak Gaelic, and I refuse to embrace music or sport which does not appeal to me. That is my right, and I fail to see why it should be otherwise. BTW, I really, really enjoy spectating on the great game which is Rugby.
This dumb knob probably objects to Beethoven’s Ode to Joy as it is about peace across all of Europe and the world.
Christ, Sinn Fein and their supporters are Fûčķing dumb as shıț
Where’s the anthem ?
what a clown. he should try talking to a different type of person if it’s reflective of the company he keeps.
He has some head never mind the statement. Look at his head, it’s Guinness book of records material
LMAO. The shinners are always calling people West Brits. Seems to be all they’ve got.
same lads who calling people west brits can be normally found in the pub shouting on ‘the pool” or man United! is more likely that rugby players etc seen to be from perceived upper classes rather than anything
I wonder will this guy dare call Martin McGuinness a west Brit? You know, Martin the Cricket fanatic? And I’ve seen Gerry in the VIP section in the Aviva when Ireland played England. So maybe he should have words with him as well?
He doesn’t look the full shilling to be fair. Perhaps there’s a deficiency there (besides the Shinner membership)
Not much of a story… There’s plenty of people who share the same view as him. But he just a made a comment of what he Personally felt, he wasn’t trying to offend anybody. And if you can’t take someone calling you a west Brit.. You’re not fit to live in the 21st century
So by using offensive language in a public medium he wasn’t trying to insult anybody? Their world boils down to a “who’s more irish” pissing contest. It’s pathetic. Definitely not a quality you want in a 21st century politician. He comes across as a complete tool. I’m sure Mary Lou will be having words. See how quick he’d be to jump on the band wagon should we reach a final.
I hope its not typical of the underlying mentality of the Shinners ?
Seems like Mr Mac Donncha might have a little inferiority complex of his own.
Rugby People are ‘West Brits’ just like Sinn Féin are all ‘Terrorists’ !!!
An ill-informed comment from a petty local politician, well who would have thought that, hey !!
state of him lol
Jaysus! Those fellas weren’t elected for their looks, that’s for sure. Mac Donncha just looks plain strange!
Inferiority complex? I believe it’s the Irish rugby team who are recognised worldwide as a decent team, it’s something we can compete in internationally and do well in it. For a politician to make statements like that he would be the first to condemn and moan about the IRFU claiming that the gaa is full of closed-minded country folk, “more Irish than you”, with a chip on their shoulder.
What he should have stated was , hey lads look at me picture ,I am growing a second arse under me mouth !
why are The Journal snooping around peoples Facebook page anyway!
100 years of independence and these people still exist.
I wonder what Europe would be like after the 1st and 2nd world wars towards Germany with the same attitude?
100 years mature?
Not in Doire
What independence? 26 Counties of our 32 Counties are somewhat independent…. Silly ignorant comment!
Hugh Hugh. Do you troll SF pages for a scrap off the table these days? Lol Who cares stupid comment but if its how he feels its his opinion.
Hugh probably promised a Senate Seat from Fine Gael.
What else would one expect from a Shinner?
Hugh. Your becoming embarrassing with these silly stories.. Fg will not be in power soon. Get over it.
“If the cap fits, wear it. ”
What fits you, you multi-chinned, uneducated lard arse who is so fūčķįńğ fat that he can’t reach around to wipe his own arsehole?
That’s not true Tom the man is a nice guy and does a lot for his community and personally speaking as a guy who has played Rugby it is a bit of an elitist sport you only have to look where most of the rugby clubs in Dublin are based sad but true.
It’s not elitist at all. Anyone stating that has a real chip on their shoulder. The kind of rubbish Tom Humphries used to come out with.
In Dublin it is an elitist game as I stated you only have to look where most of the clubs are based as I said sad but true. Most Dublin secondary schools concentrate on soccer and gaa for their pupils . Rugby my dear man tends to be played only in fee paying schools with a few exceptions. Unfortunately it’s only in the last few years that it has opened up to the masses largely due to professionalism.Some times people can’t see the wood for the trees.
Paul,
So fûćķińg what. I grew up piss poor and what annoys me isn’t coincidence that one person was richer or poorer than I. What ticks me off is the idea peddled by SF that you must be a victim of circumstance.
I thought it was sammon from the hardy bucks’ simple brother
“If the cap fits, wear it”.
How ironic.
Bit of a silly comment to make on social media, hopefully he’ll be more considered after he takes his Dail seat. Micheál Mac Donncha was excellent on VinBs peoples debate a couple of weeks ago, the entire debate is worth a watch if you have not seen it.
He was remarkable I watched it myself. But yeah it’s probably a comment he should of kept to himself as some people lose the head with opinions.
Ah bless, shinnerbots defending their buddy.
It was a Facebook post he continues to stand over.
Defending him be stating it was a bit of a silly comment to make?
How does that work exactly Mr. noun-verb-SF??
Shinnertroll, he doubled down:
“I think I reflect the attitude of a lot of people who regard the fact there is no playing of the national anthem as being an anti-national attitude.”
When it was put to him that some people find the term offensive, MacDonncha said: “That may be but there it is.”
Asked if he was referring to the IRFU in his comment, MacDonncha would only say: “If the cap fits, wear it.”
Hahaha!! You really are priceless. Where do SF find guys like this and O’Snodaigh?? They don’t look the full shilling.
The IRFU does more to unite the people of Ireland than any other organisation. Admittedly that is not a high threshold to exceed. Those who post their sectarian rantings on the Journal kid themselves that they are believers in a united Ireland but their every utterance serves only to undermine the objective to which they claim to aspire.
Hang on, this is an organisation that represents 32 counties as 1…it’s inclusive and doesn’t have any political affiliations and is one of the best run organisations in the country resulting in Ireland, a speck on the map being one of the top teams in the world…and this little dweeb has an issue with that??
Sinn Fein all over..if they got into power they’d probably ban rugby as its a prody sport or something!!
Surely a spec on a map should have one anthem then? The United Irish men Protestant and Catholic alike and were united and under one flag until the worried British empire split, divided and created the sectarianism we have known up here in the north of our island especially past 40 years! I have little time for Sinn Fein but hanging the Ulster flag alongside the tricolour during Canada game suggests division and was a joke as far as I’m concerned and certainly not Ireland standing ‘shoulder to shoulder’ so all a bit hypocritical. I think if you wear the Irish Jersey you should do representing Ireland and you should be treated as an equal despite religion, background, sexual orientation or identity but he flag is the Irish one and the anthem should be Amhrán na bhFiann. We’re not flying the kiwi flag for jared Payne. As a Derry man and as a republican (not shinner) our history and aspirations are erased all the time in favour to appease unionism…but I have to say that rugby is still miles ahead of football for bringing out country together and I’m proud we have one team! One god damn amazing team representing everyone! Btw It’s not a crime to be a republican but foolish words by your man all the same by choosing such negative and stupid rhetoric. Could have constructed his point much more constructively!
excellent well said Seamus, didn’t know that about the Ulster flag at Canada game, that’s shocking to be hon, not the first time either apparently.
Micheál Mac Donncha sounds like an angry bitter idiot.
Mesmerising how Sinn Féin would criticise one of the full, truly all Ireland institutes we have.
The Shinners are the the worst of the West Brits.
(Apart from the Dublin arts crowd who put on false posh English accents advertising the Gate Theatre on RTE Radio 1)
They have no problems collecting the Queen’s shilling.
Sounds like he has the inferiority complex.
The below, lifted from a blog by Jude COllins, sums up my attitude to the IRFU:
“…However, somebody sent me a photograph taken during the game and at first glance it seems to explain the final score of 50-17: Canada was playing against not one but two teams. At least that’s the impression you’d get if you checked the flag lay-out above the pitch: one Canada flag, one Irish flag and one…oh no, it’s not a country, it’s a province – Ulster – Ulster’s flag.
What’s it doing there? Where is the Munster flag? They’ve done great things in rugby. Or Leinster. They’ve been pretty prominent too. Or even Connaught. Why not flags for them? Well you see, the Ulster players might not like the idea of playing for Ireland if we didn’t give them a special recognition. After all, within Ireland, much of Ulster is a special case, holding different loyalties from the rest of the country.
In which case, why wasn’t the Fleurdelisé draped alongside the Canadian flag? You know the Fleurdelisé – the Quebec flag. A huge number of people in Quebec think differently from the rest of Canada. For God’s sake, they even speak a different language! And yet there was no recognition of their difference within Canada, no flag to assert their uniqueness.
The truth is, Irish rugby in at least two respects is now a joke. We have the draping of the Ulster flag alongside the Irish flag, as if the Ulster contribution to the Ireland team was something special. It’s not. No more special as I say than Munster or Leinster or Connaught, God help us. You may say “But we have to reassure unionist rugby players that we recognise their difference from the rest of Ireland”. What, then, about the nationalists who live in Ulster? Are they being told they’re different from the rest of Ireland, that their loyalties lie across the Irish Sea? Or do nationalist sensitivities not matter?
Then there’s the “Ireland’s Call” anthem. Despite the fact that it was composed by an ex-classmate of mine, it’s the most self-apologetic, ridiculous idea that we’ve had foisted on us in a long time. Is there any other rugby country in the world that’s embarrassed to play its own national anthem, in case some of the team members might get upset? If you opt to play for Ireland, play for Ireland and accept your place in the team like any other player. If you opt not to play for Ireland, that’s your right. But please, don’t come into the team and expect a second flag so your feelings don’t get ruffled, or a daft musical comedy tune so you won’t feel too excluded.
These kind of things usually come in threes. I wonder what further act of self-abasement will be delivered in the Irish rugby world. Any suggestions? Maybe change the team name to “Ireland and Ulster”?”
Amazing ignorance in everything there “Tir Eoghain Gael” its difficult to know where to start…the Irish rugby flag by the way is all four provincial crests on a green flag. It’s Ireland. Not the Republic of Ireland plus Northern Ireland. It’s the four unified provinces playing as one team that dates from the 19th century and has survived all the political ups and downs of this Island.
Good man, Robert. Any chance you could address any points actually made in the article, instead of points it doesn’t raise?
“the Irish rugby flag by the way is all four provincial crests on a green flag.”
Nowhere in the quoted blog does it say otherwise. What it does make reference to is that fact that the Ireland flag and Ulster flag were both flown at the Canada game, where the Ireland flag would and should have sufficed.
“It’s Ireland. Not the Republic of Ireland plus Northern Ireland. It’s the four unified provinces playing as one team that dates from the 19th century and has survived all the political ups and downs of this Island.”
Nowhere in the quoted blog does it say otherwise. In fact, you’re stating the same argument as Jude does in the quoted blog where he states “If you opt to play for Ireland, play for Ireland and accept your place in the team like any other player. If you opt not to play for Ireland, that’s your right. But please, don’t come into the team and expect a second flag”. (Though you’re preaching to the choir on that one, Robert, as I’ve always detested the partition of our country.)
They will be made wear orange shorts.
@Tír Eoghain Gael
You’ve obviously never heard the phrase,
“It’s better to keep quiet and thought of as stupid, than to open your mouth and prove it.”
You might be better acquainting yourself with the realities of 2 different traditions, governments, currencies etc on the island before you consider equating Quebec to Ulster.
Suffice to say that Amhrán na bhFiann is played ONLY if Ireland play in the ‘Republic ‘ part of Ireland in deference to the President. Any small success about bringing both parts of the Island together is always a battle against small minded individuals like yourself and the aforementioned Micheál Mac Donncha.
Point of correction there bud, It’s connacht not Connaught.
“You might be better acquainting yourself with the realities of 2 different traditions”
I’ve lived in the six counties right through a forty year conflict. Can you say the same yourself?
“Suffice to say that Amhrán na bhFiann is played ONLY if Ireland play in the ‘Republic ‘ part of Ireland in deference to the President.”
Kinda my point. It’s a bit small minded in my eyes to be too ashamed to play one’s own national anthem.
“Any small success about bringing both parts of the Island together is always a battle against small minded individuals like yourself ”
Small minded? Really? For believing that the flying of two flags and the playing of ‘Ireland’s Call’ is wholly unnecessary? Sorry, but I’m not one of those apologetic, sub-consciously self-loathing Irishmen. You are so obsess with the idea of appearing ‘broad minded’ that you just want to be able to show you are so caring about the unionist tradition in the six counties, yet as the blog says, what does the flying of the Ulster flag alongside the Irish flag say “about the nationalists who live in Ulster? Are they being told they’re different from the rest of Ireland, that their loyalties lie across the Irish Sea? Or do nationalist sensitivities not matter?”
Correct, Brian. I only copied and pasted. You may direct your advice to Jude Collins!
Interesting that Donegal, Monaghan and Cavan have double representation in those flags.
For a party that is set on Irish unity, there doesn’t seem to be any common sense in achieving that goal and maintaining a working solution. The IRFU deserves a lot of credit for that. All of the players on that team are proud to play for Ireland and whatever background you hail from is totally irrelevant.
@Tir Eoghain Gael
You use British Sterling, supported by Scottish Oil, governed from Westminster so like it or not ‘God Save the Queen’ and not ‘Ireland’s Call’ should by rights be played for you until the day we are united as one country again but for the sake of unity you cannot dismiss a large (but shrinking) portion of people who are happy to play for Ireland but defer to the Queen.
All sports that are All-Ireland are to be welcomed as positive steps in the right direction unless you prefer another 30 years of bloodshed.
“You use British Sterling”
And the euro.
“governed from Westminster”
With input from Dublin (as outline by one third of the text of the GFA).
“so like it or not ‘God Save the Queen’ and not ‘Ireland’s Call’ should by rights be played for you”
By rights, I am an Irishman and as such my anthem is Amhrán na bhFiann. Sadly for you, my Irishness is not something you can deny to me.
“All sports that are All-Ireland are to be welcomed as positive steps…”
Couldn’t agree more. That does not mean I am going to believe that we should be too embarrassed to play our own anthem and fly our own flag. If someone wants to play for Ireland, as the blog says, then more power to them, just don’t demand that that country should be denied the right to their to it’s own anthem and national flag just to accommodate you. George Best, for instance, was a constant voice in support of an All-Ireland soccer team, but not once did he suggest that that team would have to change it’s anthem.
“…unless you prefer another 30 years of bloodshed.”
Again, I’ve already lived through 40 years of it as it is, thanks all the same, and my family and neighbours have suffered enough of it. I am an Irishman, and a Republican who lives in total harmony with my neaghbours, Catholic and Protestant. A disagreement over the flags and anthems at a rugby match won’t lead to an extra 30 years of bloodshed, so, assuming you have never lived through a day of the conflict, let alone 40 years of it, then suffice to say, only that this is a public forum, I’d be advising you where to take and shove your utterly clueless, sanctimonious attitude.
Tir Eoghain, there was clearly a mix up with the flags as the flag should have been the NI one which is the St Patrick’s cross with the red hand and crown along with the tricolour. But they also screwed up the tricolour as the colour should be orange and not the yellow shown there. The Ulster flag may have been a compromise instead of showing the NI one. Either way its no big deal. You and that sillly blogger may not be aware of the British and Irish Lions in rugby. Where Ireland, England, Scotland and Wales come together and play as one team every four years. The flag there is the Lions flag which is the four rugby crests in one badge.
@Tír Eoghain Gael
“A disagreement over the flags and anthems at a rugby match won’t lead to an extra 30 years of bloodshed”
Disagreements over flags has led to a lot ofbloodshed in Northern Ireland, in fact some of the things that lead to strife up there begger belief to people from outside the situation, so your assertion of what a flag can and cannot mean is incredible really.
That aside though I still state that ANYTHING that fosters a better all Ireland team is to be welcomed and I’m absolutely sure if you asked Paul O’Connell or any other Irish player what they thought of no Amhrain Na BhFiann they would have no difficulty with it being played or not played.
PS I am glad you get on with your Protestant neighbours because you wouldn’t know it from your diatribe here.
Again, John. I’ve lived through the entirety of the conflict. You haven’t. It was not started by a row over a flag. I can only but repeat, a disagreement over what flags fly at a rugby game will not lead to another 40 year civil war. The fact that you are so clueless about it but feel somehow qualified to lecture me about it, when I only lived through it all, says a lot about you. As for your little “P.S.” bit, where you imply that I am sectarian, I’m going to once again resist the urge to tell you where to shove your contemptably sanctimonious attitude, but that would be to let you get away with the disgusting implication of sectarianism you have levied at me, so instead I will ask that you produce one sectarian quote from me. I await with interest.
Offensive words^^ now that’s divisive and sadly what income to expect in the absolute onslaught of negative republicans from the six counties are often subject to this
To many typos in my comment there ^^^ I meant to say the onslaught of abuse and sarcasm to comments posted by republicans when they pass comments can quite often be divisive and therefore hypocritical. Well said the Tyrone man btw.
Highly partitionist of you TEG.
Especially considering you and your SF party accepts UK rule over Northern Ireland.
By the way, it’s the 9 county Ulster Flag, not the 6 country NI flag.
The tricolour is the flag of the State of Ireland, not the island of Ireland.
If he’s having a go at the rugby he must feel the same way about the Ireland cricket team, its the same concept, protestant and catholic north and south playing together for Ireland. Martin McGuinness is a big supporter. Same with the Irish hockey team, the Irish Equestrian team, the Golfers who compete under the Golfing Union of Ireland banner which is all four provinces and I’m sure there are many others. While many were sowing sectarian dissent for decades, these sporting organisations still carried on being people together north and south.
sure rugby is shite
Lol.
Did you play yourself ??
I had to play it in school and yes it is Shiite
The German national anthem doesn’t include the “uber alles” verse and hasn’t done for decades. But you wallow in your ignorance!
Name any other country in the world that doesn’t play their anthem ? Anyone ???
Name another team that comprises two different countries?
Let him alone Reg, I am sure he is happy wallowing in his ignorance!
The Irish rugby team represents the island of Ireland, not the country. The island of Ireland doesn’t have a national anthem.
England. GSTQ is the UK anthem.
I love the line “It was a Facebook comment not a public statement” Someone needs to educate the poor lad..
to be fair the don’t “opt” to play for the Republic of Ireland…..
This lad is a bitter twisted little man. Stick to politics lad and leave the rugby to the 31 men representing Ireland. All this sectarian BS doesn’t belong in sport.
We have had an all-Ireland rugby team for 140 years. The team has survived through partition and all the troubles. The founding of the team long predates the national anthem. A team of 15 men (or women, or kids etc.) from the island of Ireland playing together regardless of religious or political backgrounds. Long may it remain!
image of Family Guy…
idiot
Sinn Féin Councillor in slurring “West Brit” shocker.
I’m not a Republican, I wouldn’t rather be British, and I know people far more invested in the culture and sporting tradition of the associated parts of Dublin, but I find the attempts to offend petty and useless.
Same when Martin McGuinness trotted out the same failed attempt at a slur during his Presidential run. To some it’s nearly a badge of honour, certainly I wouldn’t be offended, i’ve called myself a “cultural West Brit” a few times.
Some may take offence, but the exact reasons, other than association with “Sympathisers” or “traitors” has never been clear to me.
What many forget, and certainly a lot are ignorant of, is that many Citizens of the Republic are too young/ too far removed/ not invested/ ignorant/ or not interested in the struggle for a united Ireland. The Troubles, The question of the North has been quelled and progressed within their lifetime, and being close to Britain is not a dirty thing for them.
I actually am offended and disgusted by the wave of a-historical vandalism that tried to rid us of the trappings of Empire without leaving enough of a trace for us to discuss our past objectively. I have problems with Colonialism and Nationalism, so Republican’s trying to shove Liberals and Conservatives around over Nationalist feelings with an accusatory tone just makes me less sympathetic to their cause.
It is an ALL Ireland team. Some of the Northern Irish Players may be from Unionist backgrounds. “The Rebel song” is hardly appropriate for people of shared Nationality, but different countries to sing together.
The IRFU enjoys an Irish unity that no political organisation in the country has been able to achieve. If the use of an inclusive song such as “Ireland’s Call” is too big a pill to swallow then you would have to wonder. Is Ireland only to be united under hatred of Britain? I don’t believe that we need to validate our nationality by contrasting it with Britain. Ironically the only “inferiority complex” on display here is from Micheál Mac Donncha.
In the first World Cup Ireland used “The Rose of Tralee” in place of the national anthem. Prior to that World Cup a number of Ireland players were caught by an IRA bomb, ending the career of one, and many players were of a Unionist persuasion and understandably were not keen on Amhrán na bhFiann being used outside of Ireland. Ireland’s call is a more appealing option than that.
Anyway, I am sure that most people throwing around the “West Brit” slur quite enjoy their British culture (music, sport, tv).
I think we should get rid of our national anthem once and for all it is time to move on the world is changing so we should mix all the European anthems together and have one great megamix anthem that will do for the whole of Europe.
Speaks volumes that a Fine Gael member would be quick out of the blocks to condemn this statement.
It’s not appropriate to have a militaristic song as our national anthem – it glorifies the unnecessary use of violence.
The country was founded on violence, it is entirely appropriate.
he’s still a PLONKER
most anthems are militaristic and most if not all nation’s were born by violence
Good man, Robert. Any chance you could address any points actually made in the article, instead of points it doesn’t raise?
“the Irish rugby flag by the way is all four provincial crests on a green flag.”
Nowhere in the quoted blog does it say otherwise. What it does make reference to is that fact that the Ireland flag and Ulster flag were both flown at the Canada game, where the Ireland flag would and should have sufficed.
“It’s Ireland. Not the Republic of Ireland plus Northern Ireland. It’s the four unified provinces playing as one team that dates from the 19th century and has survived all the political ups and downs of this Island.”
Nowhere in the quoted blog does it say otherwise. In fact, you’re stating the same argument as Jude does in the quoted blog where he states “If you opt to play for Ireland, play for Ireland and accept your place in the team like any other player. If you opt not to play for Ireland, that’s your right. But please, don’t come into the team and expect a second flag”. (Though you’re preaching to the choir on that one, Robert, as I’ve always detested the partition of our country.)
Utter BS.
The tricolour is the flag of the State of Ireland, not the island of Ireland.
The Ireland rugby team is older than the State of Ireland.
Would you prefer the tricolour and the NI six county flag?
Absolute joker.
the tri colour and ni flag is what’s happened before. How is what he’s saying B.S.? deal with the issues he raises
an absolute joke that we play a pop song in place of our national anthem. surprisingly a blue shirt politician thinks not .not surprising though Deutschland Deutschland uber alles would probably be his choice
and those people are looking for Votes with ass holes making comments like that kiss my vote good bye
If we’re going to have an anthem for the whole island can we at least make it a good one? ‘Ireland’s call’ is awful.
Sounds like Coulter wrote it in a rush because he was about to miss the submission deadline.
Scrap it and start again!
(Didn’t they used to sing Danny Boy!!???)
you’d think given the chance to come up with an alternative to amrhan na bhfiann something better could have been produced,an anthem good or bad is what your stuck with usually,Phil coulter was given an opportunity which really is very unusual,he failed miserably for me.im thinking the town I love so well at the same time as the all blacks do the haka,we,d have them in bloody tears.
to be fair about it at least he was straight up.
agree or disagree with him as you will but to use his words “there it is”.
personally i feel the same way about irelands call perhaps not as severe but i can see his point. he did the right thing in giving a straight up response on the matter.
there was no ambiguity, i find that far better than the sideways talk and orwellian doublespeak politicians engage in today. they can speak for minutes and say nothing.
Extremely derogatory, is it really?….
What a plug….I’m a sports fanatic…..he should maybe get up off his arse and get some exercise….I don’t know what sort of sports fan he’s talking to….but a true sports fan is not an ignorant bigot
Ye may not like it but he’s right.
He looks like bubbles from trailer park boys!
Although I disagree with any of this politicians tripe, World rugby already allows for the Likes of New Zealand’s/Samoas/Fiji’s Haka’s after their National anthems while playing either home or away. Surly both Anthems can be incorporated into Irelands away games also as timing clearly isn’t the issue?
I don’t agree with the Ireland call in place of the anthem at all. I usually mute or leave the room when it comes on. what should we plan something else other than the national anthem when other countries don’t? if. there is an Irish player on the US team and they play their own one. what can’t we? as for West bits. any position would want to be very careful of something like that. whether he (or they) say it without realising it’s offensive or not. it is and was used as something derogatory towards Dublin people. and him being a North dublin counselor he may loose a lot of support.
Now way – Micheál Mac Donncha! I used to love watching “Life Goes On” when I was younger.
Just gonna leave this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIxe5ooQtqI
Never been as proud to sing a song in my life.
#Iwasthere
Right wing nationalists have a similar agenda all over the world. Just ask Nigel and Mde. Le Pen.
Nothing like Rugby Union to bring out people’s insecurities..
I know we all want to be forward looking and forward thinking but to reflect briefly from history don’t forget the United Irish men were Protestant and Catholic alike and they were united under one flag. One day the worried British empire split, divided and created the sectarianism we have known up here in the north of our island especially the past 40 years. I personally have little time for Sinn Fein but hanging the Ulster flag alongside the tricolour during Canada game suggests division and was a joke as far as I’m concerned and certainly not Ireland standing ‘shoulder to shoulder’ so all a bit hypocritical. I think if you wear the Irish Jersey you should do representing Ireland. It means no more or no less than the man next to you, as an equal despite religion, background, sexual orientation or identity etc etc absolutely no difference made, all treated fairly as it should be however the anthem should be Amhrán na bhFiann. As a Derry man and as a republican (not shinner) our history and aspirations are erased all the time in favour to appease unionism…but I have to say that rugby is still miles ahead of football for bringing our country together and I’m proud we have one team! One god damn amazing team representing everyone! Btw It’s not a crime to be a republican but foolish words by your man all the same by choosing such negative and stupid rhetoric. Could have constructed his point much more constructively! Eriu Abu
why did the author of the article stir this up on a rugby forum during the rwc… dont answer…and add yet more ip packets to clogg the internet.
I wonder how Mr Mac Donncha would feel if GSTQ was played at the start of every Lions match? Choosing one nations anthem over another nation that is part of a single team.
There is no doubt that a compromise, in this case Ireland’s Call, is the best option
Good point Alan. And if people think Ireland’s Call is cringeworthy they should listen again to “The Power of Four” and count their blessings.
“It was a Facebook comment, it wasn’t a public statement.”
I think you’ll find that when it’s up on Facebook, it IS a public statement!
Is this even a story? So Blueshirt Hugh from the Journal is trawling through Facebook accounts looking for little bits tittle-tattle and non-stories? I thought Micháel came across quite well, with dignity, calm authority and the courage of his convictions. No pathetic back peddling here which is unusual for a politician. People admire that.
Is the term a pejorative? Contrary to what a lot of people think it refers to, it just refers to a certain political mindset of someone who has adopted the values and mores of the elite of an occupying power. This is prevalent in many societies throughout history, not just exclusive to us here in Ireland. The French philosopher Frantz Fanon wrote about the phenomenon of cultural cringe before in post-colonial societies in his work Black Skin White Masks and I am guessing Hugh hasn’t read much Frantz Fanon.
Personally I have little interest in any organised sports of any description – it all looks vaguely tedious and rather pointless to me however I appreciate that people are passionate about it. Same goes for the singing of songs. However emasculating your national identity so whimsically just to placate some reactionary elements by supplanting a national anthem with something as anemic as Ireland’s Call seems rather self-indulgent. There is a whiff of craven masochism about such an action. Would Britain so easily change to something other than God Save the Queen to cater for the atheists and republicans who compose of the UK population? I suspect not.
The definition here of “West Brit” isn’t even correct. The bigger story here is this:
Looks like Hugh just lazily copied and pasted the term verbatim straight from Wikipedia. Whilst a lot of what masquerades as journalism these days is just hitting CTRL +A+C+V with government press releases, there is a term for that in journalism – it is called plagiarism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Brit
I’ll leave the word on this to Jude !
http://www.judecollins.com/2015/09/ireland-rugby-and-flag-foolishness/
Why leave the last word to a pretend academic who trots out biased nonsense?
What a smug, ill-informed and idiotic article.
These people he would talk to … are they the same people who go down to the local on Saturday to cheer on Man Utd and Liverpool?
West Brit is the appropriate term as Jackeen is Dublin west brits only
Micheál looks like he’s been a rugby player in a very unsuccessful team if his boat race is anything to go by!
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Anyone here that actually knows Míchéal, will know that he is anything but an idiot. Do a bit of research into how he has improved his community, and has worked relentlessly to build a fairer republic for years. Why shouldn’t an Irish sports team play the Irish national anthem when playing abroad?
Typical of the journal to try and bring the whole party into disrepute over a Facebook comment. Nationalism is dying in Ireland in my opinion due to “WEST-BRIT” governments who neglect our states history and do nothing to promote our national language, Gaeilge.
People do your research and stop spewing out mindless insults to a man to has given much more to his country than most of you. And what would be even better, read up on Irish history.
This is incorrect in my opinion:- ‘West Brit’ is a derogatory term used to describe Irish people who take an interest in British affairs or are condescending towards nationalist issues.
I take a lot of interest in British affairs and I’m far from a West Brit, a West Brit to me is someone that thinks that Britain is superior to Ireland and that Ireland would be better off if we were part of the British empire… John Bruton of Fine Gael whilst Taoiseach springs to mind.
We should be proud of our national anthem and our flag.
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