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'Women must decide their fate': Thousands attend pro-choice march

Pro-life campaigners have said organisers of the demonstration are in “absolute denial”.

Updated: 15.20

THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE have attended the fourth annual pro-choice march in Dublin city today.

March for Choice
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  • March for Choice

    Source: Sam Boal
  • March for Choice

    Source: Sam Boal
  • March for Choice

    Source: Sam Boal
  • March for Choice

    Source: Sam Boal
  • March for Choice

    Source: Sam Boal
  • March for Choice

    Source: Sam Boal
  • March for Choice

    Source: Sam Boal
  • March for Choice

    Source: Sam Boal
  • March for Choice

    Source: Sam Boal

The demonstration began at the Garden of Remembrance at 2pm before moving towards Merrion Square.

cli Cliodhna Russell / TheJournal.ie Cliodhna Russell / TheJournal.ie / TheJournal.ie

Protesters chanted as they marched, some shouted “Not the church, not the state, women must decide their fate” while others upped the ante repeating: “F**k the church, f**k the state, women must decide their fate.”

One demonstrator told TheJournal.ie: “It’s a very sad situation for somebody to be in, but as some of the chants say, it’s our body, our choice.”

Several politicians took part in the march, including Socialist MEPs from various EU countries.

Speaking to RTÉ, Labour junior minister Aodhán Ó Ríordáin said he believed a referendum on repealing the 8th Amendment “would be trounced” if it was held tomorrow, adding: “It would be 20 years before we can return to it.”

Holding a referendum on repealing the amendment is likely to be on the agenda for the next government. A recent opinion poll found that 28% of people will decide how they will vote at the next election based on what a political party or candidate says about abortion.

A Red C poll for Amnesty International Ireland in July found that 81% of people surveyed wanted either full access to abortion or access in the case of rape, incest, risk to health or fatal foetal abnormality, as well as risk to life.

Read: ‘It’s time for political parties to stop procrastinating. Abortion regulation does not belong in our constitution’

Read: ‘There is no public demand to repeal the 8th and politicians know that’

Large crowds attended today’s demonstration, which has been criticised by pro-life campaigners.

Taryn Trainor, Regional Equalities Officer of trade union Unite, said: “Reproductive rights have transformed the lives of working women – yet women in Ireland are still denied one of the most crucial reproductive rights, the right to access abortion on this island.”

Around 5,000 women each year are forced to travel to avail of abortion services elsewhere. Other women – those who are financially or physically unable to travel, or who lack the necessary documentation – are subjected to an abortion regime that treats them as little more than incubators.

Colm O’Gorman, Executive Director of Amnesty International Ireland, said:

“For too long, the reality of abortion for women and girls in Ireland has been hidden – shrouded in secrecy and shame. Successive governments have been content to exile women and girls to foreign shores to access a health service to which they have a human right.”

The current government has also stood over the 30-year-old constitutional ban on abortion except where women or girls could die. In 2013 it enacted legislation re-criminalising women, girls and health professionals were they to have or perform abortions in all other cases. It is shocking that women could face 14 years in prison for daring to exercise their human rights.

A spokesperson for the pro-life campaign has said organisers of today’s march are in “absolute denial regarding the hurt and heartbreak caused by abortion for many women”.

Dr Ruth Cullen said: “The pro-choice side are behaving as though they have a monopoly when it comes to the experiences of women who have had abortions.

Sadly, there will be no time set aside at today’s march for the stories of the thousands of Irish women who travelled abroad for abortion and deeply regret their decision. Nor will there be any mention of the thousands of Irish women who came very close to taking the advice of pro-choice counsellors to opt for abortion only to change their minds at the last minute.

Niamh Uí Bhriain of the Life Institute added: “The push for abortion in Ireland is almost entirely media led and driven, and has failed to attract significant grassroots support. That’s because Irish people are aware that abortion kills babies and harms women, and no amount of spin can cover up that fact.”

Read: More than a quarter of people say abortion will sway their vote

Read: Fianna Fáil will NOT hold a referendum on the 8th

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322 Comments
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    Mute Donegal Doseofshh
    Favourite Donegal Doseofshh
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    Dec 15th 2018, 11:14 AM

    I think the whole thing is a bit unorthodox to be honest.

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    Mute Stefan Epure
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    Dec 15th 2018, 12:45 PM

    @Donegal Doseofshh: If it will be anything like the Romanian (un) Orthodox church. They are better of leaving it be.

    5
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    Mute Cal Mooney
    Favourite Cal Mooney
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    Dec 15th 2018, 1:16 PM

    @Stefan Epure: The US have been urging this for the last 2 years. They want unrest on Russia’s doorstep.

    34
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    Mute Pixie McMullen
    Favourite Pixie McMullen
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    Dec 15th 2018, 11:20 AM

    Poroshenko is trying to create his own church and is dangerously mixing state and church together instead of there being a seperation of the two.
    This article fails to tell the full picture about whats going on, it`s NOT all roses and harmony for Poroshenko.

    Hierarchs of the canonical Ukrainian Orthodox Church have refused en masse to take part in the so-called ‘unification council’ championed by the country’s president, sending “invitations” to the event back without reply.

    The mailbox of the man who sent the invitations – the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople, Bartholomew I – has apparently been full of late, since 56 hierarchs have already followed suit, the Church said on Thursday. Apart from them, the Church’s bishops refused to take the invitations in the first place.

    And you can already see Poroshenko invoking the Martial law by saying there will be no public gatherings allowed will be allowed.
    Next is the SBU saying the Russians are planning a provocation at the time of this meeting, will be interesting to see what Poroshenko tries to blame them for this time

    71
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    Mute Patrick Nolan
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    Dec 15th 2018, 12:51 PM

    @Pixie McMullen:
    Our Pixie comes up with a post that wholeheartedly backs the Putin world view.
    How surprising.

    29
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    Mute Pixie McMullen
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    Dec 15th 2018, 1:22 PM

    @Patrick Nolan: Whats wrong, do ye not like facts Paddy?
    How is this Putins world view?

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    Mute SC
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    Dec 15th 2018, 1:38 PM

    @Patrick Nolan: I found the comment informative, Russia isn’t always right or always wrong so you can’t dismiss something just because it doesn’t portray Russia as evil. There was some new Ukrainian church involved in the Ukrainian genocide of Poles.

    22
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    Mute Brendan Greene
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    Dec 15th 2018, 1:40 PM

    @Pixie McMullen: what is also a fact that is that the Russian Patriarch Kirill is slavishly devoted to Putin and will not tolerate any deviation by clergy in Russia from this alliance of church and state.

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    Mute Pixie McMullen
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    Dec 15th 2018, 1:56 PM

    @Brendan Greene: The church in it`s present form in the Ukraine has been there since 1686, well before the Soviet Unioon, Modern Russia or Putin.
    Poroshenko is bent on ripping up history, there are some 200 churches and monasteries at risk of being taken over , it is =also against the Ukrainian constitution according to Krilli

    Active involvement of government officials in the drive for the supposed church independence is actually a blatant breach of the country’s constitution, Patriarch Kirill stressed.

    “The Ukrainian President himself does not make secret his hostile attitude towards the Church. Mr. Petro Poroshenko publicly threatened to banish from the country those Ukrainians who do not want to join the “autocephalous church” which is being created by the government,” the letter reads.

    “The Constitution of Ukraine stipulates that ‘the church and religious organizations in Ukraine are separated from the state’ and therefore any interference of the state in inter-church relations is unconstitutional.”

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    Mute Oleksandr Savitskyy
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    Dec 15th 2018, 2:27 PM

    @Pixie McMullen: Great narrative from Russian propaganda. “Hierarchs of the canonical Ukrainian Orthodox Church have refused en masse” just by “mistake you forgot to add “of Moscow Patriarchate”?

    11
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    Mute Oleksandr Savitskyy
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    Dec 15th 2018, 2:31 PM

    @Pixie McMullen: Great Narrative from Putin’s propaganda. “Hierarchs of the canonical Ukrainian Orthodox Church” ? Have you just by mistake forgot to add Hierarchs of the canonical Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Moscow Patriarchate? The ones who make masses for Putin? And thus making them not connected to the state?

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    Mute Pixie McMullen
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    Dec 15th 2018, 2:40 PM

    @Oleksandr Savitskyy: Ah, How`re ye Olek!
    any comment on what Poroshenko is doing is unconstitutional ?

    Any comment on the church being there since 1686??

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    Mute Cal Mooney
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    Dec 15th 2018, 3:06 PM

    @Pixie McMullen: Paroshenko pictured with some his troops this week wearing Nazi insignia. This is the type of animal we are dealing with.

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    Mute Oleksandr Savitskyy
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    Dec 15th 2018, 3:14 PM

    @Pixie McMullen: Exactly what Poroshenko is doing unconstitutional? Do you the history? Look at what church was there in 1686. Do you even know that Moscow was build nearly 300 years after the first Church was build in Kiev? And the comments of Patriarch Kirill about “Active involvement of government officials”. The head of the church who is using government security services, government jet, 3 out of 4 of his residencies are provided by Putin and nearly half of all income of that church provided by Russian goverment. He was smuggling cigarettes from abroad in 90-s as “humanitarian help” (was officially investigated) and partly this way made his $4bn fortune.

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    Mute Oleksandr Savitskyy
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    Dec 15th 2018, 3:22 PM

    @Pixie McMullen: Here is the best description of “Active involvement of government official” and how awkward the Russian Ortodox Church has become under Kirill and Putin rule. Russian priests baptizing and icon of Stalin (who murdered 90% of priests in 1930-s) and Strategic Bomber of Russian http://simvol-veri.ru/xp/kto-pustil-proxanova-i-ikonu-stalina-na-voenniie-aerodrom-so-strategicheskimi-bombardirovshikami.html

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    Mute Oleksandr Savitskyy
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    Dec 16th 2018, 2:52 AM

    @Cal Mooney: Poroshenko is a jew. Did you know that?

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    Mute Greg Blake
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    Dec 15th 2018, 12:03 PM

    That’s a very bad sign for the whole region, it means the church leaders are openly taking political sides. With this, the political divisions are going to get more pronounced and more difficult to bridge well into the future. Like them or not, churches are a political reality, and can have a major effect on the public sentiment.

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    Mute Martin O'Dwyer
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    Dec 15th 2018, 12:33 PM

    @Greg Blake: always did.!

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    Mute Martin O'Dwyer
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    Dec 15th 2018, 12:35 PM

    @Greg Blake: always the same .

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    Mute John O'Leary
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    Dec 15th 2018, 11:06 AM

    Love a new church.

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    Mute Dave Thomas
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    Dec 15th 2018, 11:13 AM

    @John O’Leary: just what the world needs

    25
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    Mute Martin O'Dwyer
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    Dec 15th 2018, 12:35 PM

    @John O’Leary: A new problem.

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    Mute Martin O'Dwyer
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    Dec 15th 2018, 12:36 PM

    @John O’Leary: A new force.!!

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    Mute Martin O'Dwyer
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    Dec 15th 2018, 12:37 PM

    @John O’Leary: A new religion again.

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    Mute Oleksandr Savitskyy
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    Dec 15th 2018, 3:01 PM

    Just so you can understand what is current (and former) Russian orthodox church is. It is a highly corrupted structure, very close to Russian Goverment and a big part of the top priests are “former” KGB agents as majority of real priests were executed during Stalin times and the rest was put to prisons or had to emigrate after 60-s. Kirill flies on Russian Government jet and security provided by Putin’s Security Department. Not all of the priests are like Patriarch Kirill and the rest of the top of that church, but as soon as they complain about something they are immediately banned from public ministry or even titles. Like it happened to the real priest from on of Minsk Church who complained on Kirill. https://www.znak.com/2018-10-15/svyachennik_vystupil_s_kritikoy_patriarha_kirilla_i_emu_zapretili_sluzhit Full article in Russian. Basically he complained that people have been waiting for hours for Kirill to arrive , when he arrived he even did not paid respect or went to those people, yet he was driven in his Mercedes to the Church door , only people who had special pass could come and the rest were waiting behind the fence or live fence from security. Some of security man were staying with their backs turned to the altar (big sin in Orthodox church) Pictures say it all https://www.svaboda.org/a/29541950.html?fbclid=IwAR0_499HANzP9KQq9dhoKNJWq7422aqYtLUOcS58UPoxFD18yWXIQZy2FhA

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    Mute Sean Conway
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    Dec 15th 2018, 11:47 AM

    Putin went down the same road as the US american presidents. superstition to control the people.

    10
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    Mute Cormac Ó Braonáin
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    Dec 15th 2018, 12:26 PM

    @Sean Conway: I bet that you’d even find Putin in your bowl of corn flakes.

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    Mute The decline of Manchester United
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    Dec 15th 2018, 1:16 PM

    @Cormac Ó Braonáin: Are you trying to say Putin is a cereal killer?

    21
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    Mute Tommy Roche
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    Dec 15th 2018, 12:52 PM

    They should all sit down together, have a good ‘oul pray and wait for himself to sort the whole thing out.

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    Mute tommytukamomo
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    Dec 15th 2018, 1:49 PM

    21th century, we have sent probes to distant galaxy’s, space travel for passengers is just around the corner.
    Supersonic flight is no longer a dream.
    Most cancers are no longer a death sentence but we are still prepared to wage war over sky fairies.
    Humanity has a long long way to go.

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    Mute Joe O'riordan
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    Dec 15th 2018, 1:58 PM

    @tommytukamomo: sky fairies?? Bet you felt all superior and smart when you typed that ……dont believe then dont mock…there are people of far higher intellect than you that do believe. Saying that the bar above your level of intelligence is not so high……

    12
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    Mute tommytukamomo
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    Dec 15th 2018, 2:19 PM

    @Joe O’riordan: Two words Oh high & mighty one..
    “PROVE IT “.
    And mind you don’t trip over those beads you sanctimonious person.

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    Mute David Ahern
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    Dec 15th 2018, 11:29 AM

    Bloody Spliters

    15
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    Mute Paul Quirke
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    Dec 15th 2018, 11:19 AM

    Will be found totally and utterly dead soon

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    Mute Packie Hughes
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    Dec 15th 2018, 2:12 PM

    Churches should work to unite.

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    Mute Andre le Flohic
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    Dec 15th 2018, 2:35 PM

    let god sort it out !!

    2
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