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LAST NIGHT REGIONAL elections in Spain saw pro-independence parties taking victory in the Catalan district.
The snap election had been billed as a plebiscite on secession by those in favour of Catalonia breaking away from Spain and forming its own state.
The result saw the Junts Pel Sí (Together for Yes) party party take 62 seats, and the far-left group Popular Unity Candidacy (CUP) take 10 seats.
The regions 135-seat parliament requires 68 seats for a majority, meaning that a likely coalition between the two would see the parliament in total control of pro-separatist groupings.
Why does Catalonia want to break away from Spain?
A number of factors have led to a growth in the push for independence over the past five years.
A seminal moment came in 2010 when the Constitutional Court of Spain voted down a 2006 statute that had given the region more governing powers and financial autonomy.
This saw huge opposition, with over 1 million people taking to the streets to oppose the decision.
The feeling among many Catalans is that centralised decision making from Madrid has a bias against it, and that as one of Spain’s most prosperous regions it doesn’t get a fair deal when it comes to spending.
Many Catalans are annoyed at the deficit that exists between the amount of money that goes to Madrid in taxation, and the amount they receive back in spending.
A ruling in the 1978 Constitution of Spain prevents any further autonomy being extended to the region, something that was reflected in the 2006 Constitutional Court decision.
Last year, a non-binding vote was held on independence in the region, with voters being asked if they wanted Catalonia to become a state, and if so, if they wanted it to be an independent state.
Slightly more than 80% of those who voted backed independence.
The region is led by pro-separatist President Artur Mas, who was elected in 2010. Campaigning hard to frame the regional vote as a referendum on independence, Mas declared, “Today was a double victory – the yes side won, as did democracy.
Will Spain be breaking apart?
While framed as a vote on independence, the vote itself has no immediate impact on the autonomy of the region.
There is substantial opposition to it from Spain’s central government, with suggestion that an outright referendum would be illegal.
Mariano Rajoy, Prime Minister of the country and leader of the People’s Party has been vocal in his opposition of a potential secession, calling for a silent majority within the region to oppose independence.
For a referendum to take place on independence, the central government would have to transfer autonomy to the region in the same way that it happened in Scotland during their vote for independence, something that is unlikely to happen.
Before yesterday’s election, the ‘Together for Yes’ group state that it would declare independence within 18 months if pro-secession parties achieved an overall majority of the popular vote, something that they fell just short of doing.
Following the result the Spanish government stated that it would continue to “guarantee the unity of Spain”.
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In fairness to the Brits they gave the Scots the opportunity to have a referendum and leave the UK if they wanted to, the Spanish government are just saying no, ignoring the Catalans and hoping the problem goes away. If anything their disrespectful attitude to the Catalans is fueling nationalism.
Scoland once was a country, invaded by England, Catalonia has never been a country, several centuries ago it was part of the Aragon Kingdom,but it has been never been a stand alone Calalonia. That’s the difference. The issues began when Franco came into power in the late 1930s, he forced the Basque and Catalonia regions to speak nothing but Spanish, but this dark episode in Spanish history only lasted for less than 40 years. Is pretty much like Cork wanting to be independent. There is no bias for it. Every country has a poor and a rich region, if every rich region chooses to separate, then Dublin could easily become a country and their unemployment would intermediately lower as they are subsidising a lot of counties.
Just because a country called Catalonia has never existed doesn’t mean that a Catalonian identity has never existed, no independent country called Ireland ever existed until 1922 but no one would deny that a separate Irish culture has existed, prior to British rule Ireland was a patchwork of different independent kingdoms but they all had broadly the same Gaelic culture. And it’s not the same as Cork demanding independence, Catalonian is widely spoken in the country and it is quite distinct from the language spoken elsewhere in the country.
And Scotland is part of the UK because it voluntarily joined it was never conquered by England like we were, even before the Act of Union the country had become very anglicised and Scottish Gaelic had ceased to be the majority language 300 years beforehand without any direct English interference.
Saul, that post was far too well informed for this forum. Red thumbs for you.
It is all very sweet nice to say the spanish government must give independence to Catalonia if they ask for it. Unfortunately, this would be against the constituion and whichever politician signed on that bill without a national referendum first should be sent to jail for treason. Civil war would likely take place, but hey, what’s a bit of blood when an imaginary line needs to be moved?
Also, please note that only a minority (meaning less than 50% of voters) have actually voted for independence. If you want to count these last elections as a guide for independence, it wouldn’t be voted in, even if only Catalonia was to be consulted.
Vote YES for independant Cork
Ah yes, an independent Cork, that’s something I can vote for.
The Sanish Government is doing as all governments do, ignoring the will of the people.Catalonia and the Basque region of Spain and France will become Independent and help bring down the EU. Merkel will have to watch herself too as the German states are not happy at playing host to half the population of North Africa and with a bit of luck they too wil want autonomy. Far fetched?? I grew up when half of Europe was behind the Iron Curtain and that vanished overnight.
Independence for Jobbiestown now! Je Suis Le StoppieCockie
An independent Mayo! Ye can keep enda kenny in Dublin!
If you take Enda back Spoddgy……we’ll let Mayo go.
won’t matter a damn, Europe is about to fall apart as a continent……immigration
So if Catalonia separates from Spain does that mean Barca will be thrown out of La Liga..
Yep, The Spanish FA already allow FC Andorra play within the Spanish leagues and If catalonia does become independent they have already hinted that they won’t allow a second team from a non Spanish state and FC Andorran will keep their place.
I could see an arrangement similar to the one that lets Cardiff City and Swansea compete in the English leagues.
La Liga would never kick Barca out. It would be economic self-destruction.
No chance, football will continue as normal
There is no way they will through out Barca, there is way too much money involved from sponsors, game receipts and most importantly TV revenue. Take Barca out of the Spanish league and revenues will be destroyed – and we all know from watching soccer world wide revenue and money is what really matters.
‘Yep’, is not factually correct answer as there isn’t one. Spain’s Government, and the Spanish FA, have been threatening Catalans with a plethora of reasons to stay in Spain; expulsion from the E.U; expulsion from La Liga; monies held in Catalan banks seized. But that is all they are threats. Spain running scared from losing their most prosperous region.
It’s all in this article lads, it’s a scare tactic but a pretty good one. http://the42.ie/1712093
As the law currently stands, The president of the Spanish FA: “ the Sports Act has an additional provision that only one non-Spanish state can play in La Liga or official Spanish competitions, and that is Andorra,” Pretty factual answer to me
Well, when 1 million people march out of a population of about 7 million in that region, you got yourself one major problem on your hands. Seeing as Barcelona is the capital of Catalonia there’s simply no way the Spanish could ever let it go.
Juan million people.
Can you not count? Pro-independence parties didn’t achieve 50% of votes. So what kind of democratic decision is that where a referendum would be passed without a majority vote?
And that’s forgetting Spain’s constitutional framework where such a referendum would have to take place in the entire country, but sure, what do you know about Spain.
It doesn’t matter if they didn’t get the majority of votes, they got the seats, the vast majority, which they will use to force Spain (especially with the December elections on the horizon) to sit down and talk again, something they have refused to do in years. Majority of Catalans don’t want independence, but they don want more control. And the million people march was 5 years ago, it was well over 2 million last Sunday. It’s an incredible movement, which is growing and growing, but Madrid continues to stick their heads deeper in the sand.
“It doesn’t matter if they didn’t get the majority of votes, they got the seats,”
Another person that does not know how a referendum works. I am baffled.
And then you say it yourself, they don’t want independence. They want more control.
Do you realise Catalonia has its own parliament and controls the great majority of its financing and also gets the biggest chunk of the money in the country’s budget?
The only reason why Artur Mas wants ‘independence’ is to distract the voters from the big issue he himself has created: The destruction of the Catalonian economy with his neo-con policies.
I said more control, especially greater financial control. When you compare what they put in and what they get out, it may be “the biggest chunk” but it’s not really a fair chunk. What you do not understand is, it’s not about a referendum, it’s really about having a better negotiation stance, they have the majority now, they can push a lot harder, which they will come election time. Gonna be very hard for Spain to ignore millions of people and a majority pro-independence Catalan parliament.
Completely right Al Fonso. This regional government are a band of crooks, with Mas the second biggest of them after the Pujol family. Their big push for independence is nothing more than a distraction from the reality of the situation which is the billions of Euros they robbed from the region over the years, with the famous 3% commission just scratching the surface? Anyone wonder why the King abdicated, Corinne left the limelight and Jordi Pujol stepped out of public life all at the same time?? As for the vote, I never get why there are so many sympathisers on these Journal pages. The reality of the result is that the majority of the people (53%) voted for central leaning parties (PP, PSC & Ciudanos) while 47% voted for Junts (37%) and CUP (10%), CUP representing the anti system faction. Junts is just a cover group for all the other independence parties under one umbrella so no different or more indicative of Catalan sentiment than randomly putting Ciundano and PP under a combined umbrella and them saying that they represent the will of the people because they achieved 37% of the total vote combined. Add to this that this was a vote for regional govt and not a referendum. A referendum is against the constitution in its present format. In a referendum it is one person, one vote while in this election it is not. So, if Mas wants his referendum, let him first overhaul the electoral voting system in Cataluna and hold a proper vote which represents the peoples will. If this comes out in favour of independence then let him go ask to negotiate with Madrid. For the moment all he has is a hodge podge coalition which represents only 37% of the region votes. He probably should keep in mind the fact that Ciudanos, the Barcelona founded and Catalan led, pro Spain, centrist party has increased its seats from 8 to 25 in just a few years. IMO, just more of the usual lies and spin from Mas and Co.
How many people actually turned out to fight for Irish freedom in 1916 and after? I believe it was in the region of 500 in Easter Week [although that swelled to 5000 or more judging by the numbers who claimed pensions...]
So the wealthiest region in Spain wants more money. This money will have to be taken in infrastructure and other government investment in the poorer regions.
In turn, this will make people from the poorer regions want to move to Catalonia, creating a population vacuum that will further deepen the wealth divide. This has already happened with loads of immigration from Andalucia.
Although I can see the ‘logic’ in wanting more for yourself, the ideological argument of wanting greater financial ‘control’ (an euphemism for more money) is incompatible with the left ideology which, in Catalonia, has always been quite strongly represented.
Wanting ‘your share’ although it seems fair all it does is deepen the issue and it turns out to be very unfair. Oh dear, you don’t contribute enough to maintain your A&E ward. Oh well, tough luck!
Funny how most Irish people complain that Dublin gets everything. Well, isn’t it ‘its fair share’? Just because in Spain it happens that the region of the capital city isn’t the one that coincidentally has the largest economy, it doesn’t make the economical question any different.
Spain has gone down the slippery slope of turning into a fascist police state.
Only last month a Spanish woman got fined €800 for posting photo of police car on Facebook.
.
Best of luck for them in this breakaway move.
Spain never stopped being a fascist country. Even our most ‘progressive’ government used terrorist tactics to counter ETA terrorism.
Fascist police state? Are you for real?
Many of us go to Spain for holidays, it is nothing but a fascist police state.
Far more freedom there than in Ireland.
By the way they have their own laws, among them not to post photos of security forces and their vehicles number plates for safety reasons (terrorists for example). If you do so, you will be fined. No surprise, it is an offence.
Same as the UK government against the IRA.
Is the UK also a fascist country?
Please define what is a fascist country because I am surprised one of the Western democracies can be called so.
No Jo Buckley…these laws are recent and brought in to kill the austerity protests and any protest against their Governments actions.
http://www.valigiablu.it/anti-protest-law-spain/
Probably get dispensation the way Monaco do in Ligue 1.
Or how Cardiff and Swansea (and presumably other Welsh sides) are competing in the English leagues.
Or Derry City play in the League of Ireland?
Although Cardiff and Swansea are not in England they’re still in the UK so it’s a very different situation from a completely independent Catalonia.
So if they do break away… Who gets to remain in the euro/eu and who shoulders Spain’s massive sovereign debts?
The Scots were told if they leave the UK they will also have to leave the EU and then re apply to join. That could take over 10 years. The same rules I guess for Catalonia.
you would think that catalunya would have to apply to the eu as an independent state, if they wanted too, and Spain would continue as usual until the basque area decides it wants to breakaway too.
Spain will keep the euro and its EU membership. Catalonia will probably unilaterally adopt the euro, but its EU membership will be a bit trickier. As for the debt, typically that’s divided amongst the successor states.
The Basques are already talking about following the Catalan lead in seeking independence. I guess that’s what happens when Madrid takes their money but ignores them on so many policy areas that have a direct impact on those financing Madrid.
“Madrid takes their money but ignores them on so many policy areas that have a direct impact on those financing Madrid.”
And what are your sources for this?
Go here:
http://politica.elpais.com/politica/2015/07/29/actualidad/1438193812_953297.html
Scroll down to the middle of the page and look at the graph. No need to translate anything. Which Spanish region is taking most of the money from the general budget? Oh dear. Catalonia.
Bleeding ignorant you are.
Yeah, you didn’t read my post, Al Fonso. I never said anything about what money goes back to the various regions. I specifically mentioned policy decisions, such as political devolution to Catalonia which was subsequently rescinded. Madrid promised the Catalans one thing but then went back on their promise. If you want I can dig out a lot more. Personally, I am neither for nor against Catalan independence. That is for the Catalans to decide. And surely, if the Spanish people and government want Catalonia to remain part of Spain, then they should be doing more to give the Catalans more say over their future while showing them the benefits of being part of Spain. How the Spanish in Madrid view it is irrelevant, because it’s not Madrid seeking independence. First of all, Madrid needs to stop ignoring the issues driving the independence movement. Secondly, there needs to be dialogue. Right now it looks very much like a married couple where one partner is asking to be spoken to because there is a problem with the relationship while the other is simply either ignoring or belittling that partner. Those relationships don’t work, and if Madrid keeps going on its current path, then the Madrid-Barcelona relationship won’t succeed either.
Sounds a bit like the South of England v the North of England. Or Dublin v the rest of Ireland.
Or Cork Airport and the DAA
Al Fonso is the typical Spaniard who does not have a clue about what is happening in Catalonia. One day he will read on a newspaper that the Catalan Republic has been proclaimed and he will not understand anything.
You the Irish guy understands Spain better than me? Honestly. I’d never claim to understand Ireland better than Irish people but you have no issue accusing me of not knowing the country I come from. I have family and friends in Catalonia by the way and I have spent time there too. I understand it all quite well.
They can proclaim whatever they want. And maybe it will be better for them. That I don’t know. But right now over 50% don’t want independence. So you take that figure and analyse it with your deep and good knowledge of MY country.
I think an independent Catalonia would be financial suicide for them. But hey. I don’t live there any more. Their future does not affect me. They can all do sepuku if they want. But don’t come idealising their situation as it has no correlation with Ireland.
I didn’t notice you were Catalan. Anyway. The rest still stands. You go ahead with your republic and enjoy your economic suicide. Al out.
In fairness, Marc, Al has raised many good points. This whole issue is very complex, and a regional election is hardly a barometer for people’s opinions. Even if the nationalists had secured over 50% of the vote, and even if independence was their platform, many could have voted for them based on local policy issues rather than the macro-issue of independence. Look at Scotland where the SNP has consistently been the largest party and secured a majority in the Scottish parliament on a platform of seeking independence, yet the referendum was rejected!
Spain is not going to fall apart for the foreseeable based in this election.
This election has achieved only one thing, divide by half the Catalan population, not a good thing for a healthy society, see Northern Ireland.
A lot will depend on international recognition. If Madrid can convince others not to back catalunya, they’re at nothing. I agree Catalan identity is strong but this is far from straightforward. It just shows that all independence campaigns are far more complex than they seem.
have your say