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Updated at 17:30
INDEPENDENT PRESIDENTIAL HOPEFUL David Norris was dealt a blow this evening as he failed to secure the support of South Dublin County Council.
Norris had earlier secured the backing of Laois County Council, added to his nomination by Fingal County Council last week and was expected to gain the support of South Dublin County Council this evening but failed to do so.
The motion to nominate Norris, which was the only item on the agenda, failed by one vote – 12-11 against – with three abstentions.
It leaves Norris with two county council nominations so far. A candidate needs four in order to be on the ballot for the 27 October election.
Meanwhile, fellow independent candidate Dana Rosemary Scallon has secured the formal support of two local authorities today, meaning she needs two more.
Carlow County Council was the first to give her its backing this morning with Roscommon County Council also voting to back Dana this afternoon.
RTÉ Radio One reports that Carlow initially voted on a proposal to support Norris, but was tied on the motion. The deciding vote cast by the council chairperson was against backing Norris. The council then voted on the proposal to support Dana and approved the motion.
Roscommon followed suit this afternoon as had been expected.
This morning, Laois gave its backing to Norris whose mother was from that county. He had been widely expected to secure the backing of South Dublin County Council but failed to do so this evening.
Norris had also sought to get on the ballot through the backing of 20 Oireachtas members, but that effort came to an end last night after Independent TD Mattie McGrath announced he would not sign Norris’ nomination papers.
McGrath held a meeting last night with his Tipperary constituents and staff and said the majority voted against his backing Norris.
There are not enough Oireachtas members left who have not already assigned their support or ruled themselves out of the nomination process for Norris to get a nomination through that route.
In total, around a dozen councils are meeting early this week to decide on their potential nominations. Tomorrow, seven local authorities are set to meet.
Donegal County Council will meet at 10am to debate a Fianna Fail-proposed motion to nominate Scallon. Cork County Council will meet at 11am to consider a motion to nominate Norris.
At lunchtime, Waterford City Council is to meet to debate motions to nominate either Norris or Scallon.
Longford County Council is to meet at 4pm to debate a motion to nominate Scallon. Westmeath County Council will also meet on Tuesday to debate a motion to nominate Scallon.
On Tuesday evening, Dublin City Council will meet just before 7pm to discuss a motion to nominate Norris while at 7pm Cavan County Council will debate a Fianna Fáil-proposed motion to nominate Scallon.
Finally, on Wednesday morning, Kilkenny County Council is to meet at 8.30am to debate motions to nominate either Norris or Scallon.
The deadline for nominations to be delivered to the returning officer is 12 noon that day.
- additional reporting from Hugh O’Connell
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Great News, I hope both Norris and Rosemary Scallon get on the Ballot.
If Dana was a viable candidate this would be fine but Noris is clearly wanted by the majority of Irish voters- considerably larger proportion of the voters at least than to that of Dana. This is a cynical move by the Carlow county council.
Seriously embarrassing behaviour from some pro-Norris supporters. Carlow have every right to vote for Dana. I don’t want her near the position but that’s democracy.
You lot are giving reasonable Norris supporters a bad name. The goal posts should not be moved to facilitate one person. The rules are there for a reason. What is your idea of a better solution to the current nomination process?
It was a political move to keep Noris out because Gaybo or Bilbo Bagins doesn’t stand a chance otherwise. Dana wants to run (which is laughable but fine) but she doesn’t have the wave of support that Noris has- there was no reason for the chair of the Carlow coco to come down in favor of Dana over Noris because his party were abstaining. He did it to keep Noris out not to facilitate a variety of choice in a democractic election.
A petition with 10,000 citizens signatures would do for me Billie. A lot more democratic. When the most popular candidate in a race can’t even get nominated, there is a major problem with the system.
Dana is as viable a candidate as Norris.I should add I would vote for neither. All candidates have names by the way or is it ok to as long as no one says dorris?
I’m sorry, is this ther new Mathematics Curriculum, I keep hearing about? When did 21% become a majority?
Ashamed that my home county voted for Dana. The woman is a joke candidate in every election.
Keith I think it has something to do with him getting 21% in favour of him becoming President ahead off everyone else in a poll conducted by a reputable polling company. D minus for you I’m afraid.
I glad that she is able to run in the name of fair democracy – but personally would not like to see her in the elected role.
Norris is simply not relevant. Having him serve as President would make as much sense as Sinéad O’Connor. Unfit for the job.
You’re not relevant!
I wouldn’t underestimate the anxiety that FG is feeling at the moment for their candidate’s prospects, which the opinion polls suggest are far from rosy. Without Norris in the race, especially his transfers, McGuinness is an absolute shoe-in. That message hasn’t sunk in with the mainstream parties.
Dana haha, nobody listens to Dana anymore.. You’d want to be mad to listen to her!
Dana is now as close to being on the ballot as Norris.
Keith, it’s a Father Ted quote.
She offers all kinds of everything……
….i’ve already got my coat :)
Noooooooooo! Anyone but Dana.
I have literally no idea why councils are backing Dana.
Seriously, someone tell me what she has to offer because I am clueless
Dana has the distinct advantage of having never become involved in a child rape case. That’s why Norris isn’t getting voted in. Fact!
because it means they don’t have to back Norris
But if they don’t want to back anyone, they don’t have to. Saying they have to support Dana in order to not support Norris is wrong
Best of luck to David and Dana. It will make the race very entertaining at least!
“Cavan County Council will debate a Fianna Fáil-proposed motion to nominate Scallon”
Amazing. Even reduced to a pathetic rump, FF keep going out of their way to annoy the hell out of me.
It’s tragic how all the hacks are harping on about democracy for Norris (which is ironic considering he was elected to the Seanad on the University panel!), but get all huffy when the same logic is applied to Dana…
Didn’t the Great and the Good in FF decide not to back any candidate? Seems there is one rule for the PP in Dublin, and an entirely different one for the councillors in the hinterlands. No consistency. Scallion, Davis and Sean Whatever his is all come cloaked in FF goodwill.
@Paul Anthony
Aren’t the university panels some of the few constituencies of the Seanad that are actually voted upon, as opposed to be nominated? And isn’t the overwhelming public support behind the idea of abolishing or at least reforming the Seanad due to its democratic deficit? Doesn’t seem like a contradiction in popular opinion if you ask me.
Either way, you can hardly argue that it’s not ridiculous that the most popular candidate for the Presidency can’t even get on the ballot paper. Surely 27% of the public support is enough? Gaping constitutional deficit if you ask me.
The only thing that annoys me about the councils backing Dana is that she has less than a quarter of the public support Norris has, yet she has a much easier time getting local councils support. Shit ain’t right.
@Paul Anthony Ward: I’ve no problem with ‘the Norris logic’ being applied to Dana, I’m just exercising my democratic right to be horrified to see *anyone* supporting an anti-contraception anti-divorce full-blown religious nut like Scallon, never mind a once-legitimate political party. It’s like waking up in the ’70s, only Wanderly Wagon isn’t even on.
Paul, I weary of such arguments about Norris’ election to the Seanad – they’re childishly petulant and willfully ignore the facts that Norris actually was elected, unlike many of his colleagues, and that he in particular, has been very critical of the process of seanad appointments, arguing that the appointment of 11 senators by the taoiseach serves to artifically maintain a government majority in the chamber.
good news, Dublin South should go his way also needing just one more……
Heh.
or not it seems…….
Aghhhh! The curse of the commentator strikes again! You should be on Sky Sports lad!
After seeing the performance of Dana on celebrity bainisteoir last night she seems to be the woman for the job. Who else could welcome the teams for an All Ireland final and then coach them as well. Dana for a dual post-President and manager of Dublin for 2012!
Breaking: Carlow are tied on whether to give Norris the backing. Fine Gael Chair uses position to DECLINE! Norris won’t be getting Carlow support.
hmmm wondering the the FG Chair vote against Norris on party or personal reasoning ?
Found the Chairman’s decision to vote against the motion to nominate Norris a bit odd. His party colleagues abstained, technically adopting a neutral position. It would seen consistent to have either followed suit, leaving the motion effectively defeated or to vote for it. I presume there are procedures applying in these cases of ties in Council meetings. It would be helpful if someone dug out those applying in this case.
Just to clarify my previous post. I flicked through the Standing Orders as published in Local Government legislation (2001). From my reading, the Chair per convention has a casting vote in the event of a tie, but the act does not specify following any particular convention in casting that vote. In my experience of committees, normally some form of ‘custom and practice’ is observed in the event of a tie.
As a FG supporter and SDCC local I was disappointed with the Fine Gael councillors who voted against his nomination on South Dublin County Council. Labour and SF supporters should be equally unhappy.
I don’t support Norris for the Aras, but I support him at least being on the ballot. If he wants to see his good image torn to shreds in what will be the dirtiest Irish election ever fought, let him!
Looks like this could go down to the wire.
This is a complete travesty playing out as an utter farce. No one can seriously argue, letter controversy or not, that David Norris was ever going to get on the ballot paper without one almighty struggle. And tis very simple, and tis very sad as to why that is. The utter super-hype that surrounds the letter is an easy distraction, an easy excuse for a swath of Irish Society to lurch and cling on to, in order to divert attention to the actual reasoning for their disdain for Norris’s Candidacy. This particularly vicious dog needs to be called what it is, FEAR.
The only question we the Irish people need but ask. Our we afraid.
And we ought to resoundingly respond. We Fear Not.
Get over yourself.
I don’t dislike Norris. I sure as hell don’t treat his candidacy with disdain. I simply will not vote for him if he gets his nomination as I don’t think he is the right person for the job. Nothing more, nothing less. The same will apply to the vast majority of people who don’t vote for him.
I’ll tell you who I have grown to dislike and have stopped me even considering voting for Norris, people like you who are so pro-Norris that you cannot see any other view. Everything is a conspiracy.
The rules have been known from the start and have been followed. Norris can still get on the ballot. He still has time. There is no conspiracy against him. Have a little patience.
What a load of crap.
I concede that there’s no conspiracy. In defining a conspiracy there must be an element of secrecy involved, or to translate it into Bertie speak, ‘all smoke and daggers’. No that rather points up the amateur nature of the opposition to David Norris, they haven’t the intelligence to conspire some Machiavellian plot to decapitate his chances of a Nomination. No the opposition is much more rooted in gut reaction, in a snide undertone of begrudged tolerance. The backs are up, and know doubt to the wall, when a gay man comes a calling.
And as to who you vote for, that’s entirely a matter for your own deliberation, it’s absolutely none of my concern. It really ought to be a matter for yourself, the pencil in your hand and the ballot paper in your other.
GO ON THE NORRIS !!!!
Merging this story with the one from earlier skews the above comments somewhat,
Many commenters wrote ‘good news’ to Norris getting a nomination from Laois.
However, they’re now listed as saying ‘good news’ to the new headline, ‘Norris fails to secure South Dublin County Council’ which for those users certainly isn’t the case.
Well done Carlow. Dana now moving on to Roscommon and Limerick.
Looking like there may be no vote in Limerick.
Jasus Conner I thought this was a open forum …. Not allowed have a opinion anymore
Not when it’s libellous Gary.
Zzzzzzzzzzz
not when its just stupid trolling time and time again….
Being from the town and having a good idea of how the tiny minds in it operate, my prediction is that Kilkenny CoCo will vote for Dana.
What will be interesting is when/if Dana reaches 4 councils, will she continue to try and secure more council votes? We could see some really dirty politics out of her camp.
Well if ever we were due a new constitution, now would be the time. Why all the layers. And think about the Presidency – does the President ever have to spend a penny of their own money while in office? No wonder MMG can throw out the minimum wage claim!
Ironically, I suspect that many pouring vitriol on Norris are the very backbone of the RC church that could field more than its fair share of experts in child rape in any competition. How many bishops and clergy men, let alone popes, wrote clemency letters for other clergy men? Yet, the same people remained and remain in charge of much child education in Ireland. What Norris did was ill judged and wrong, but compared to the RC church he is a sinner, rather than a sinister conspiracy.
This election, and the endless coverage that it is receiving, sums up a lot of what is wrong with this country. The position could be done away with (let the Ceann Comhairle or someone take the odd state affair), we are dealing with largely Division 3 figures (yes, I include MMG there), and it is highlighting the fact that we have far too many public representatives (Eamon Coughlan, Mattie McGrath and Roscommon CC the kingmakers!?!). I may even abstain for the first time ever!
The position cannot be “done away with”. Read the constitution and what the President actually does.
There are many public positions that should be eradicated but the President is not one.
Well it’s look like we will find out today …
So who’s left ??? Have Norris any hope
It’s looking less likely. 8/9 councils left to vote I think. Quango Queen Mary Davis played hardball and snatched up 13 of the councils.
Dana
Donegal (Tuesday, 10am)
Longford (Tuesday, 4pm)
Westmeath (Tuesday, 2pm)
Cavan (Tuesday, 7pm)
Norris
Cork County (Tuesday, 11am)
Dublin City (Tuesday, 6:45pm)
Considering both
Waterford City (Tuesday, 1pm)
Kilkenny (Wednesday, 8:30am)
The County Councils are stuffed to the rafters with venal imbeciles. They are long past their sell by date. But still the government of Croke Park cannot bring itself to abolish/ rationalise them despite the McCarthy report. Howlin is still puffing impotently about reform like a locomotive jammed in a tunnel. The various tribunals have revealed extremely selective planning criteria being employed from time to time. So what, it is Ireland. When people complain about Greece falling short, they should have a quick look at their own County Councils first.
As far as I recall the councils are democratically elected – nobody stuffed them. Funny, when people can’t win the game, they blame the rules. If you think people made bad choices when electing councillors, why should we trust them when it comes to selecting presidential nominees? No logic, just souring grapes… Hope Norris gets nominated, can’t wait to find out what else he said…
I’d like Dana and Norris to get onto the ballot paper without any more fuss and then let’s vote. This archaic nomination process is a joke. Why should some bunch of councillors decide who gets on the ballot paper? I presume the nomination process is there to stop every clown in the country standing for president, but it would work much better if TD’s and senators could nominate multiple candidates. Then serious candidates would have no trouble getting 20 backers.
Agreed. The people should decide. I was for Norris but I think his perspective on what is acceptable regarding the age of consent is slightly skewed. I wouldn’t like to see the office of president become caught up in some further unknown scandal, so in that regard I’ve been put off. Nevertheless he should be on the ballot.
have your say