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Beloved Yes Equality campaigner dies in San Francisco

23-year-old Dean MacCearraín (McCarron), originally from Monaghan, died while visiting the area for his brother’s wedding.

12143169_1068014183208829_1267200400033311241_n Dean Mac Cearrain (McCarron) (right), with Panti Bliss, celebrating the result of the same-sex marriage referendum. Panti Bliss Panti Bliss

A 23-YEAR-OLD Monaghan man has died in San Francisco, while visiting the area for his brother’s wedding.

Dean Mac Cearaínn (Dean McCarron) was a graduate of NUI Maynooth, where he held the office of President of the Pride Society, and was a popular and well-known gay rights activist.

In a statement on their Facebook profile, the Maynooth Students Union called him “an individual of incredible talent, creativity, quick-wit, and probably most of all, sass.”

Former President of our Pride Society, a beloved resident Drag Queen, a friend to so many, and not least of all a total character to everyone he met in his whirl-wind adventures and stories along the way, Dean was also a key student campaigner in the recent Marriage Equality referendum, and on so many student and community issues before that.
He wanted to make the world around him a better place.

The circumstances surrounding Dean’s death were not known on Friday night, although a spokesperson for the San Francisco Chief Medical Examiner did confirm that a 23-year-old Irish national named Dean McCarron had died.

A spokesperson for the Department of Foreign Affairs said they were providing consular assistance to his family.

The performer and activist Panti Bliss this evening shared her condolences with the friends and family of Dean, who appears in the forthcoming documentary Queen of Ireland.

Today we learned the shocking news that Dean passed away this week while in San Francisco with his family.
We didn’t know Dean very well, but we didn’t need to know him very well to know he was a smart, quick-witted, funny, charming young man.

Readers like you are keeping these stories free for everyone...
A mix of advertising and supporting contributions helps keep paywalls away from valuable information like this article. Over 5,000 readers like you have already stepped up and support us with a monthly payment or a once-off donation.

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34 Comments
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    Mute Michael Wynne
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:03 AM

    This shouldn’t even be up for debate! I’ve said it before,there are better ways for RTE to save money… first and foremost, lose self righteous Darcy, that would be doing everyone a favour… Then Tubridy …..that’ll get the ball rolling.

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    Mute Gillian Weir Scully
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:26 AM

    @Michael Wynne: How do other orchestras manage in other countries? Does RTE need two of them? How come RTE gets revenue from TV licenses and advertising when the BBC seems to manage only with licence fees?

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    Mute Derek
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:34 AM

    @Gillian Weir Scully: the magnitude of population would be a guess

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    Mute Niall Ó Cofaigh
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:36 AM

    @Gillian Weir Scully: the costs of running a station has little relationship to the number of people viewing it…. BBC with a licence base of more then 10 times the licence base of RTE but a lot less then 10 times the running costs. The cost to produce the news, for example, would be the same but the cost would be spread out more……. that is why RTE needs to sell adverting on the TV and the Radio. In fact when RTE radio started many of the programs were sponsored by advertisers.

    Sadly one of the things that people do not seem to be able to equate is the difference in the populations across countries and how people in Ireland have to pay more in some circumstances, cause there are less of us the share the “burden”.

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    Mute Francis Devenney
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:39 AM

    @Gillian Weir Scully: The BBC is funded from a pool of 65 million RTE by 4 million Also most orchestras world wide are state funded or subsidized The hundreds of jobs an orchestras provides need to be payed for so if RTE weren’t paying for it the Arts Council would be.

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    Mute Steve O'Connor
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:56 AM

    @Gillian Weir Scully: seriously? There are 65 million people in the UK, don’t be a moron.

    One is a symphony orchestra, 100ish musicians, and one is a chamber orchestra, 50 or fewer. (not sure the RTE numbers)

    Or we could just not have any national orchestras because “the market” doesn’t allow it and expert professional musicians are just a waste of time and money or whatever 47% there seem to think. We’ll just let Ed Sheehan and Bono represent us to the world.

    We’re really striving for that Lowest Common Denominator as a nation these days.

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    Mute Ben McArthur
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    Nov 10th 2017, 11:09 AM

    @Steve O’Connor: Was it really necessary to call another poster a moron for asking a question? Is this the Lowest Common Denominator to which you refer?

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    Mute Stephen Brady
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    Nov 10th 2017, 11:31 AM

    @Gillian Weir Scully: also this place is a rip off is another good guess.

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    Mute Frank Dubogovik
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    Nov 10th 2017, 11:38 AM

    @Michael Wynne: agree in principle….but ….it would have to be lottie ryan FIRST

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    Mute Brendan Mason
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    Nov 10th 2017, 12:20 PM

    @Derek: Remember BBC is 20 times bigger then RTE. Therefore 20 times more revenue.

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    Mute Ciarán Masterson
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    Nov 10th 2017, 12:46 PM

    @Ben McArthur:

    I wouldn’t use the M word but I think Steve O’Connor has got a point – those who grumble online about the licence fee are simply a loud minority.

    If you don’t like paying the licence fee, don’t have a TV! If you can’t get fast broadband, you can always do other things instead, e.g. read books, go walking or cycling (Just saying!).

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    Mute Ciarán Masterson
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    Nov 10th 2017, 12:48 PM

    @Steve O’Connor:

    “We’ll just led Ed Sheehan and Bono represent us…!

    It’s Ed Sheeran, not Ed Sheehan! His music is not my cup of tea but I think he’s a good singer.

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    Mute Sean Smyth
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    Nov 10th 2017, 12:53 PM

    @Gillian Weir Scully: The BBC have a massive cash cow in the sale and licensing of their original series’. Peaky Blinders, Line of Duty, Luther, their Period Dramas etc.

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    Mute Matthew O'Kane
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    Nov 10th 2017, 12:58 PM

    @Michael Wynne: its not that they arent worth it its that they are being run right they should be run more like strictly, x factor or great bake off taking it as many young people as possible and creating as much enthusiasm for orchestras nationally as possible. TV needs to evolve its being forgotten cause they dont reinvent how musicians preform and push it as up to date modern entertainment.

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    Mute Matthew O'Kane
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    Nov 10th 2017, 12:59 PM

    @Matthew O’Kane: its not that they arent worth it its that they arent being run right they should be run more like strictly, x factor or great bake off, taking in as many young people as possible and creating as much enthusiasm for orchestras nationally as possible. TV needs to evolve its being forgotten cause they dont reinvent how musicians preform and push it as up to date modern entertainment.

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    Mute Jason Ebbs
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    Nov 10th 2017, 1:21 PM

    @Steve O’Connor: Eh ! The population of the UK is 65million. Moron

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    Mute Ciarán Masterson
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    Nov 10th 2017, 1:47 PM

    @Jason Ebbs:

    “The populations of the UK is 65 million”.

    That’s what Steve said at the start!

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    Mute Donal McCarthy
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    Nov 10th 2017, 3:45 PM

    @Gillian Weir Scully: The why does RTE need both Advertising and License revenue question is quite a silly one. Both are unpalatable, but they have the excellent effect of reducing the need for the other.

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    Mute Chris Kirk
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    Nov 10th 2017, 4:24 PM

    @Gillian Weir Scully: I would have thought it obvious like trying to compare apples and oranges, given that Ireland has only a fraction of licence payers compared to the population of the UK.
    The RTE Orchestra are doing an excellent job promoting Ireland to audiences around the world and I honestly think that it is a small price to pay compared to the rubbish Irish performances at the Eurovision Song Contest in recent years. That is where money should be saved in my view.

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    Mute Eoghan Brunkard
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    Nov 10th 2017, 5:03 PM

    @Michael Wynne: Really couldn’t agree more.

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    Mute Mondo
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    Nov 10th 2017, 6:33 PM

    @Ciarán Masterson: s

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    Mute Mondo
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    Nov 10th 2017, 6:36 PM

    @Ciarán Masterson: soon you will be charged a fee whether you have a tv or not. That’s just crazy but unsurprising in this country.

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    Mute Michael Wynne
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:05 PM

    @Martino Treacio: I couldn’t give a crap about directors or people behind the scenes! I don’t have to listen to them pontificating over us as Darcy does like a self righteous ,self important margarine spread that he is, and then read that he earns €xxxk per year giving his opinion and that’s the only opinion that he believes should matter.

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    Mute Matthew O'Kane
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    Nov 11th 2017, 12:59 AM

    @Michael Wynne: aye darcy and tubridy are useless both but the RTEs orchestras exposure received in Irish media, what are messages the nation takes from viewing that? Im asking why should their skills be spent so and not in the spot light of training/judging from the best on rte camera to make the best young performers worldwide, let the masters show how it is done talk through the techniques, aye true the rte orchestras are talented their are professionals and experts in their field and seeing them in photos with peers their same expertise/ ages full me with despair not pride, why limit it to just showing off mastery, is it not just as rewarding showing others that talent passing it off to them we are all human here we dont live forever and would it hurt to create a hub of young people within that creativeness those masters drive to success in those pushing that into new talent new music. It maybe looked down on bake offs and x factors but even such a crude form could lead to further inspiration.

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    Mute Nick Caffrey
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    Nov 13th 2017, 3:36 PM

    @Niall Ó Cofaigh: So, so right!

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    Mute Gavin Cronin
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:00 AM

    It’s the only thing that justifies paying the license!

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    Mute Ne
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:15 AM

    @Gavin Cronin: 12.7% of the total license fee seems like a lot, for something that is a minority interest, and while people who pay are threatened with jail, and while RTÉ as a whole is struggling financially.

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    Mute Ne
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:15 AM

    @Ne: *who don’t pay

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    Mute William Grogan
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    Nov 10th 2017, 11:48 AM

    @Ne: Can you imagine being jailed if you didn’t pay for pop music bands???

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    Mute Enda Rochford
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    Nov 10th 2017, 11:57 AM

    @Ne: 7.1%, not 12.7%. Look the Orchestra is a group of people with an actual talent, I think they deserve this if not more. Compare that to the so called “talent” who present the RTE TV shows, no real comparison IMO

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    Mute Micheál De Bhaldraithe
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    Nov 10th 2017, 12:20 PM

    @Ne: 7.1%

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    Mute turnitalloff
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    Nov 10th 2017, 2:48 PM

    @Ne: it is not really that it is of minority interest. It is of huge cultural importance to have national orchaestras for a country. Can’t understand why RTE manages them though.

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    Mute Liz Finn
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    Nov 10th 2017, 6:05 PM

    @Ne: it’s not really a minority interest though, both orchestras are extremely popular….

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    Mute Thomas Blackcat
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:01 AM

    Yes – they bring variety and culture to our lives. Every country has them!

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    Mute Shane Corry
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:50 AM

    @Thomas Blackcat: It shouldn’t be whether to have them at all but whether they should really be costing €15M a year.. That’s an awful lot for what RTE probably gets in return, ie. likely little revenue from it.

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    Mute Ben McArthur
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    Nov 10th 2017, 11:20 AM

    @Thomas Blackcat: They don’t, though, do they? They claim an audience of 180,000 per year, but as with virtually everything else – and looking at the advertising material in the NCH – I would bet that 80% of that is the same 20% of people. So the total reach is maybe 2% of the population. Most of those people aren’t, let’s say, in the cheap seats. This is funded by what is essentially a flat rate poll tax.

    You can legitimately think that it’s worth publicly supporting orchestras while questioning whether they really serve the public and what the right funding model is.

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    Mute RJ.Fallon
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:22 AM

    This orchestra has been one of Europe’s leading orchestras and we should be proud of them.but in Ireland, well ,we always put ourselves down,don’t we.

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    Mute William Grogan
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    Nov 10th 2017, 11:50 AM

    @RJ.Fallon: You pay for them then. I don’t listen to that band why should I pay them?

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    Mute Peter Cavey
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    Nov 10th 2017, 11:56 AM

    @William Grogan: Your tax pays for bridges you will never cross and parks you will never walk through. Get over it, it’s how society works!

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    Mute RJ.Fallon
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    Nov 10th 2017, 12:12 PM

    @William Grogan: I don’t listen to most of what is on t.v. ,but I still pay for it.

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    Mute John Gough
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    Nov 10th 2017, 1:01 PM

    @RJ.Fallon: do you listen to the radio though?

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    Mute John Gough
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    Nov 10th 2017, 1:02 PM

    @Peter Cavey: sorry RJ misread your post. I agree with you comments above.

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    Mute RJ.Fallon
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    Nov 10th 2017, 1:19 PM

    @John Gough: accepted. , thanks.

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    Mute liam lally
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    Nov 10th 2017, 1:37 PM

    @William Grogan: The group of musicians are called an orchestra and not a band.

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    Mute Liz Finn
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    Nov 10th 2017, 6:15 PM

    @William Grogan: you do listen, you just don’t realize that you do. Many television programmed on rte contain music that is performed by…. yes, you guessed it, one or other if the rte orchestras

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    Mute Ryan
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:01 AM

    They’re about one of the only justifications RTE have left for the license fee…

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    Mute Dermot Lane
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:09 AM

    @Ryan: it’s elitist. What percentage of the licence payers have any interest in orchestras or the kind of music they play?

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    Mute Gavin Cronin
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:25 AM

    @Dermot Lane: disco inferno was unreal last night. €20 for a ticket. Definitely not elitist, you’d nearly spend that money going into coppers

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    Mute Rowan Murphy
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:28 AM

    @Dermot Lane: Elitist my eye. If it’s not your thing, it’s not your thing. Don’t bring class into it.

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    Mute Shane Cavanagh
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:50 AM

    @Dermot Lane: The orchestras literally play all types of music, not just classical. I’ve seen everything from the Beatles to U2 to Diana Ross, as well as soundtracks from films such as Star Wars, Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings. So in answer I would say 100% of licence payers have interest in the type of music orchestras play

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    Mute Frank Dubogovik
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    Nov 10th 2017, 11:41 AM

    @Gavin Cronin: must be grand living in dublin…they don’t play much down here in kerry though

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    Mute Michael Mullins
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    Nov 10th 2017, 12:38 PM

    @Frank Dubogovik: RTECO will be in the INEC on 15th of December. Not saying you’re wrong..just pointing out that they will be down

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    Mute Dermot Lane
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    Nov 10th 2017, 12:41 PM

    @Shane Cavanagh: and they were seen by 180,000 or so people last year, many of them repeat attendees I’d say. Better use could be made of that money even if it were still spent on ‘the arts’

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    Mute Kilbride Lakeside
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    Nov 11th 2017, 10:40 AM

    @Dermot Lane: There are only two kinds of music
    Good and bad, that is. That statement has been variously attributed to Richard Strauss, Duke Ellington, and probably numerous other musical figures, but it doesn’t matter who said it first — the important thing is that it’s true. MariaO’Hara

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    Mute Nick Caffrey
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    Nov 13th 2017, 3:41 PM

    @Dermot Lane: How, in God’s name can music be elitist? Anybody can listen to it. Not everybody likes it. Is pop music elitist? Jazz? What a stupid comment.

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    Mute Shane Cavanagh
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:52 AM

    €13 million a year on our orchestras is very well spent in my opinion. Aside from the great concerts and performances given on a weekly basis, having approximately 100 top international musicians living and working in Ireland has countless benefits for our country. The majority of the musicians that RTE help keep in the country would be involved in community projects or music education to some degree, be it music lessons, community/youth orchestras and choirs, or primary, secondary and third level music education. If the orchestral musicians were forced to move abroad for work many of these education and community schemes would die out, and Irish people looking for music education would increasingly have to look abroad.
    Aside from the many concerts and performances, other activities the RTE orchestras are involved in include educational concerts for primary and secondary schools, radio recordings, live film screenings and the provision of soundtracks for Irish films. Without the availability of Irish orchestras, independent Irish films would need to look abroad to record their soundtracks.
    The UK seems to have close to 70 professional orchestras, 5 of which are funded by the BBC https://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/listenup/orchestrasbritain.shtml The Irish tend to think of themselves as being very proud of their culture. However, removing 50% of our professional orchestras would have a huge knock on effect for music in the country, and would be a huge step backwards for the country’s arts, culture and heritage.

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    Mute Micheál Clesham
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    Nov 10th 2017, 2:21 PM

    @Shane Cavanagh: Well said. RTE is being drained of any artistic creativity. I would look at cutting the salaries of staff (not just the obvious presenters) before the orchestra.

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    Mute Larry Doyle
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:04 AM

    A better use of money than dancing with the “stars”.

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    Mute Gerard Hanley
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    Nov 10th 2017, 12:51 PM

    @Larry Doyle: Dancing with the “staff”

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    Mute John Reid
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:27 AM

    The RTE orchestras are probably the ONLY good use of the licence-fee payers’ money. These national orchestras must be maintained, with the aid of the licence fee, for the sake of continuing to live in a civilised society.

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    Mute Thomas Maher
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:24 AM

    I’ve seen them twice over the years. Have to say they were very good. Had to pay each time. Can’t remember how much now. Definitely worth it. Much better value than Tubs,, D’arcy and all the rest of the so called over paid talent on RTE combined.

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    Mute Nicolas Martinez
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:01 AM

    Why should everyone pay? Definitely should be self financed. Let people interested in them pay such as what you already do when buying National concert hall tickets.

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    Mute Kevin O'Sullivan
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:38 PM

    @Nicolas Martinez: Have a look at the deficit. Self-financing is not an option. That is why they’re under the umbrella of RTÉ who’s job it is to provide not only television and radio but orchestras and choirs.

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    Mute Pat Butler
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:50 AM

    Typical. Looking at the price of everything and the value of nothing. These orchestras are part and part of both our heritage and future nurturing of our finest talent. Long may they continue.

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    Mute RJ.Fallon
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:51 AM

    @Pat Butler: Well said.

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    Mute Dermot Lane
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    Nov 10th 2017, 12:52 PM

    @Pat Butler: is classical nusic part of our heritage in ireland? I’d question that. And should it be the job of a state broadcaster to ensure such orchestras are funded? I’d question that also. Classical music is very much a minority interest here in Ireland. I say all this as a music fan, of all types of music, even classical.

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    Mute Emma-Lee Meegan
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    Nov 10th 2017, 1:35 PM

    @Dermot Lane: I don’t know if you’ve ever followed the workings of the RTE Concert Orchestra, but classical music is a small part of what they do. They cover everything from pop and disco events to live screenings of major films.

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    Mute Dermot Lane
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    Nov 10th 2017, 2:13 PM

    @Emma-Lee Meegan: which still begs the question, is that the job of a public service broadcaster?

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    Mute Conor Kennelly
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    Nov 10th 2017, 3:32 PM

    @Dermot Lane: Be consistent then, because by your logic we shouldn’t there fund pop music but in another comment you suggested that we should because it’s popular. But in any case, music and art don’t know any boundaries so it’s not correct to suggest they’re not part of our heritage. The nocturnes of John Field, composed 200 years ago are still performed today. John McCormack is widely regarded as one of the greatest opera tenors ever, his recording of the Mozart aria, Il mio tesor has probably been never excelled. Even the notions of heritage and tradition are questionable concepts as culture is fluid and constantly changing. Riverdance is marketed as very much an Irish cultural export but Irish musical purists would have scoffed at it 40 years ago. One can draw a link back to Planxty in the 70s who introduced the bouzouki and mandolin to Irish music. Carolan, to whom much of Irish music owes a debt, was widely influenced by Vivaldi. In any case if we only supported music and art that are popular, we’d end up with a very bland, stale mono cultural world. We should surely be striving for as much cultural variety as possible to enrich our world.

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    Mute Chris Kirk
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    Nov 10th 2017, 4:33 PM

    @Dermot Lane: Absolutely classical music is part of our heritage. One of the greatest pieces of music Handels Messiah was written and first performed in Dublin almost three hunderd years ago. I wonder will U2 music still be played in three hundred years time, I doubt it.

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    Mute Gavan Ring
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    Nov 11th 2017, 2:32 AM

    @Dermot Lane: Not part of our heritage?! Take some time out from your narrow-minded perception of Irish heritage and have a listen to this with yours truly the RTÉ NSO from only a few weeks ago: https://youtu.be/vTtCcOwmIXo

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    Mute Nick Caffrey
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    Nov 13th 2017, 3:42 PM

    @Conor Kennelly: Bravo!

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    Mute Mícheál S. Mac Donnacha
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:17 AM

    We need to be careful that we protect all types of arts in the country

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    Mute Dermot Lane
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    Nov 10th 2017, 12:46 PM

    @Mícheál S. Mac Donnacha: so we are going to have an RTE funded trad band? And and RTE funded rock group? More television licence payers listen to those types of music than listen to classical music. Even Lyric FM has to change it’s output because when playing all classical music, they weren’t getting the listeners. I’m all for funding the arts but let’s fund ones people have the most interest in.

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    Mute Austin hickey
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:02 AM

    Not for that money

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    Mute Rochelle
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:11 AM

    It’s a bit mad that every TV owner are supposed to be paying over €11 a year for an orchestra they probably never receive any benefit from.

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    Mute Adam O'Sullivan
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    Nov 10th 2017, 12:04 PM

    @Rochelle: I don’t watch Coronation Street why should my license fee pay for it?

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    Mute Ciarán Masterson
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    Nov 10th 2017, 12:39 PM

    @Adam O’Sullivan:

    Coronation Street is on TV3, which is entirely commercially-funded but also receives a very small percentage of the licence fee via the Sound & Vision Fund.

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    Mute thesaltyurchin
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    Nov 11th 2017, 9:10 AM

    @Rochelle: Ugh, living in hole on the road drinking Beef and Guinness stew from gear bag. Whats in for me!? what about me!? where’s my brown envelope!? you are the host at this rainy Sunday car boot sale we call a country. Bravo.

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    Mute Melissa O'Callaghan
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:17 AM

    I can think of worse spend – like Ryan Tubridy, for instance.

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    Mute John Kelly
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:01 AM

    €WOW!!!1,600,000 per month???

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    Mute Francis Devenney
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    Nov 10th 2017, 11:00 AM

    @John Kelly: For how many jobs? Musicians, Transport, Stage hands, Admin, Lighting tecs, Sound tecs, Catering etc..etc. There is literally a small town involved in an orchestra

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    Mute flexfinn
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    Nov 10th 2017, 11:13 AM

    @Francis Devenney: that’s a good question , how many jobs exactly and which percentages of monies is spent on what, a bit of clarity on spending wouldn’t go astray

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    Mute Micheál Clesham
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    Nov 10th 2017, 2:29 PM

    @flexfinn: Good questions, also the other knock on effects of having top musicians in the country that are harder to measure. Surely it feeds into music education in Ireland and encouraging our youth to pursue music. It also benefits other art forms such as our film industry which is thriving, creating wonderful content (and jobs as a result). The arts are too easy to pick on when looking to cut financial corners

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    Mute John Quill
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:10 AM

    Yes, because you cant bluff being a talented musician.

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    Mute Ben Cooper
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    Nov 10th 2017, 2:07 PM

    @Jumperoo: the concert orchestra is a smaller, more flexible ensemble. Their strong suit is versatility more so than the NSO, and they specialise in putting together programmes from an incredibly broad range of styles very quickly. This includes film music, classical repertoire, contemporary/new orchestral music and crossover styles involving trad, jazz, and pop, backing up notable guest soloists, most importantly Irish ones. Declan O’Rourke’s recent album “in full colour” is a notable recent example of this, along with last night’s Disco Inferno concert.

    The NSO is a bigger ensemble and focuses on performances of substantial symphonic repertoire from the masters such as Beethoven, Mahler and Tchaikovsky. NSO also performs programmes of modern contemporary repertoire by living composers, Irish and foreign.

    They are the only fully professional organisation in the country who regularly provide an opportunity for people to experience some of the most important cultural artifacts in recorded history.

    The differences in type of skill required from the musicians in either ensemble are huge. They are two completely different jobs. Having one group cover all of the above is like having a plasterer fit your kitchen while he’s at it.

    The NSO along with the concert orchestra also provide a platform for emerging Irish composers to have works commissioned and performed.

    Both orchestras provide platforms for Irish soloists and conductors to perform to home audiences. Many of these are trained at home.

    They also both provide part time employment for freelance/self-employed musicians whose services are engaged when additional forces are required.

    Make no mistake, both of these organisations are vitally important as providers of employment for highly skilled and qualified Irish graduates. There is already a very high percentage of Irish musicians who either relocate to study in the UK and Europe, or study in Ireland, and emigrate upon graduating and realising the truly grim lack of employment opportunities for someone with their skill set.

    So would the taxpayer rather waste their money on training young people to an international standard in their chosen skill, only for them to emigrate and enrich Germany or England’s culture rather than our own? Or “waste” money on providing employment for highly skilled professionals operating in two very different, but highly demanding niche ensembles, and enrich our own culture?

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    Mute Robert Grant
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:01 AM

    Well when your comparing to what its already spent on…then yes it is.

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    Mute Brian Hughes
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    Nov 10th 2017, 12:08 PM

    I can see the point that a lot of people living outside of Dublin are unlikely to see the orchestras, and that some people don’t have any interest (even though I would like to find one person in Ireland who doesn’t like something out of Star Wars or Lord of the Rings music, ABBA or the Beatles, 70′s disco or swing from the 50′s?) and won’t go to see them, and people are left frustrated paying 11 euro a year for a wonderful cultural asset.

    So, if I don’t avail of the public health service (which thankfully, I have not had to this year as I am in very good health), I should not pay 20% of my overall tax, because I’m not “benefiting” from it? Or go a step further from that: seeing as I am not receiving any sort of education at the moment, nor do I have kids in education, should I get to keep that tax money too, because I’m not using the service? I can tell you, about half of the money I will pay in tax from this year will not be benefiting me AT ALL, but I know that what I contribute is for the greater good of society, because my grandparents, my cousins, my friends will benefit from it. 11 euro a year for a tax payer, they could piss that away in an hour with two or three drinks (more likely 2 as prices keep going up) in the pub. I think that these two professional orchestras, who train for their entire lives to get to where they are, are worth far more than that.

    We all have to pay for things that we personally don’t use, so I don’t fully get the TV license argument, which is the basis of this whole poll and discussion?

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    Mute Niall Ó Cofaigh
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:45 AM

    Lets us be clear, I think it is a good idea for Ireland to have a National Orchestra!

    Who pays and runs this then becomes an issue and the current arrangement seems to work will til someone says we have have better things to do with the money.

    Obviously the money obtained from commercial operations is not enough to keek the orchestra going.

    The options are, scrap it and 1001 other cultural projects that are not self financing and a “waste” of tax payers money (and use the money saved to build social housing on the town and city greens ?)
    Pay for it from central funds through the Dept of Culture, Heritage and Gaeltacht eating away at the social finds available in the budget – but allow RTE to run the show.
    Leave well enough alone and stop the stirring and attempts to interfere one of the good things we do in the country.

    This comes from someone who has not seen the orchestra in the last 40 years but still thinks it is something important and to be proud of.

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    Mute Niall O Neill
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:02 AM

    I’d like to see them visit Cork more often

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    Mute AMKavanagh
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    Nov 10th 2017, 11:35 AM

    @Niall O Neill: 23/11 6:30pm
    Triskel Christchurch Arts Centre, Cork!
    We probably don’t hear enough about what they do & maybe a bit more PR / engagement outside Dublin would be good. We have to protect our culture & maybe also they dont need to be so much associated with RTE..

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    Mute Greg Blake
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    Nov 10th 2017, 11:56 AM

    That’s the whole point, They sit around w@nking in RTE and at the concert hall. For that money they should be attending events all over the country and sometimes splitting into individuals, quartets or small groups visiting schools etc. Maybe small things like a regular welcoming gig at the airport. OK, pay them their money but let them also earn it. The BBC orchestra crowd seem to be performing everywhere in UK, ours want money for nothing.

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    Mute RJ.Fallon
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    Nov 10th 2017, 2:09 PM

    @Greg Blake: True , but our NSO had an extremely successful tour in China recently and were very well received.

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    Mute John Staunton
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    Nov 10th 2017, 6:35 PM

    @Greg Blake: if you haven’t a clue what you’re talking about then don’t speak. You blatantly have never spoken to any of the incredibly hard-working RTE musicians, or seen the punishing schedule they follow. “Let them also earn it”??? Your arrogance is astounding. You’re one of these clowns who views a symphony orchestra job as a ‘soft touch’. I guarantee these musicians work harder on an average day than most people here. They’re paid a fraction of most RTE staff, they work longer hours, and they work unsocial hours all the time (Friday night concert every week, New Year’s Eve & Day, Stephen’s Day, etc all working days). How about you go do some research before embarrassing yourself.

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    Mute Pizyco
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    Nov 10th 2017, 7:58 PM

    @John Staunton: Your defence of the Orchestra is admirable and I think that they are part of a wider problem with the RTE organisation as a whole which needs to reformed and made more fit for purpose for the 21st century. I would take exception as your ‘guarantee’ that members of the orchestra work harder than most people on here – you simply have no clue about the stresses strains and incredible long hours so many business owners , front line workers , hospital workers nurses , retail ( who will laugh at your description that because the orchestra happen to do gigs on New Years eve or over the Christmas period as if thats some kind of heroic service for the country ) – they are hardly on ‘fractions’ of most of the RTE staff – that just cannot be true – look at the number – do the maths its not true – yes there are the top 10 high earners earning stupid money (separate issue) but they are not on fractions of most RTE staff – they are well paid for being musicians – have the crèche facilities , pensions and security through the recession etc that the vast majority of private sector workers can only envy – please feel free to show us all one of these ‘gruelling’ schedules that you mentioned for comparison so we can judge for ourselves how hard the slog must be for the salaries and packages on offer.

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    Mute Jenny Burns Duffy
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    Nov 11th 2017, 12:13 AM

    @Greg Blake: Which BBC ‘crowd’ are you referring to? The BBC NOW? The BBC Scottish Orchestra? The BBC Symphony Orchestra? The BBC Concert Orchestra? The BBC Philharmonic Orchestra? You clearly do not know what you are talking about.

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    Mute Jenny Burns Duffy
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    Nov 11th 2017, 12:18 AM

    @Greg Blake: Which BBC ‘crowd’ are you referring to? The BBC NOW? The BBC Scottish Orchestra? The BBC Symphony Orchestra? The BBC Concert Orchestra? The BBC Philharmonic Orchestra? Of course they can perform in many places, there are 5 orchestras. You clearly don’t know what you are talking about.

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    Mute Mary Kelly
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    Nov 17th 2017, 2:12 AM

    @John Staunton: Well said John Staunton. Its very obvious that the people who make negative comments about the orchestra haven’t a clue about the enormous amount of work they do each week. They deserve every cent they get and its not enough. I only became interested in Classical music a few years ago. I wish I had discovered it sooner. I love both the Concert Orchestra and the Symphony Orchestra. They are a great bunch. So dedicated to their job. I feel very proud that we have such a wonderful Orchestra.

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    Mute Jumperoo
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:10 AM

    Maybe some of the culture vultures voting ‘yes’ and leaving comments to support the orchestras can answer a question for unenlightened, uncultured plebs like me: why are TWO orchestras needed?

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    Mute Thomas Blackcat
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:23 AM

    @Jumperoo: You’re right – we need a Philharmonic orchestra, as well.

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    Mute RJ.Fallon
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:24 AM

    @Jumperoo: I think most of the concert orchestra are members of the symphony orchestra.

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    Mute a
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    Nov 10th 2017, 11:00 AM

    @RJ.Fallon: They aren’t. Totally separate.

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    Mute RJ.Fallon
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    Nov 10th 2017, 11:13 AM

    @a: I stand corrected.

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    Mute Jenny Burns Duffy
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    Nov 10th 2017, 11:24 AM

    @RJ.Fallon: no, they are not members of each. Two different entities covering different types of music.

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    Mute Jumperoo
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    Nov 10th 2017, 12:08 PM

    So nobody can answer my question? Whatever about having one orchestra, two separate ones seems a bit of an indulgence.

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    Mute Greg Blake
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    Nov 10th 2017, 12:43 PM

    I don’t think there is a need for two separate dedicated orchestras (if that’s the plural??). Why not a common pool, so they can split them into smaller more useable groups or use them as individuals when necessary. And get them all out on the road more. If you don’t go to the National Concert Hall you’d only be aware of them on TV at New Years or on rare occasions. That’s why people don’t care if they disappear, they are way too insular.

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    Mute Liz Finn
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    Nov 10th 2017, 6:13 PM

    @Jumperoo: concert orchestra is much smaller than the symphony orchestra….. some pieces of music require a symphony orchestra to actually play all the musical parts that are written for it…. a smaller orchestra doesn’t do it justice so that’s why you need the two….. oh and for the peeps asking about a philharmonic that’s roughly the same as a symphony re the number of actual musicians….

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    Mute Katherine Sheane
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    Nov 10th 2017, 1:09 PM

    There is no debate here – the orchestras are a vital part of Irish cultural life, enjoyed by thousands and thousands every year.

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    Mute
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:58 AM

    It is very simple solution take the RTESO and RETCO and place them in a separate institution coupled with the NCH and create an organisation that delivers quality, take the €12M away from RTE give it to the new business and let them generate the rest. We have a great heritage of music from Ireland and around the world as anyone who has had the pleasure of attending the NCH will tell you. It is not for the elite but for those who enjoy what music brings and the RTESO and RTECO do it much better than most.

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    Mute B Ó Raghallaigh
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:35 AM

    I’d rather pay for them than most of the garbage put out by RTÉ

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    Mute Eric Davies
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    Nov 10th 2017, 1:00 PM

    keep the orchestras and get rid of the shite tv shows and alleged ‘stars’ like turdbuddy ,darcy ,miriam 20 kids , finucane ,and the rest of the dross – too many ‘talk’ shows fashion shows , cookery shows and ‘reality’ shows , get back to making some decent programs and dramas like ‘strumpet city ‘ .

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    Mute Katherine Sheane
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    Nov 10th 2017, 1:08 PM

    There is no debate here. The orchestras are a vital part of cultural life in Ireland, enjoyed by thousands and thousands every year.

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    Mute Pizyco
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    Nov 10th 2017, 8:06 PM

    @Katherine Sheane: and your entitled to your opinion but you don’t get to declare that its no debate – the funding of the orchestras and RTE as a whole requires debate so that it can be reformed and developed with a funding model that is sustainable and more fit for purpose in the 21st century – they are a very inefficient organisation , cost millions in license fees , generate millions in ads yet manage to still loose money. People should not have to pay mandatory fees for media consumption – you should be offered the opportunity to subscribe and be willing to pay and fund RTE by choice not by the threat of a jail sentence when they are so poor at managing the finances of such an old fashioned organisation.

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    Mute Rex Banner
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:11 AM

    If i ever paid the liscense im sure I would have an opinion on this.

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    Mute Fifa
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    Nov 10th 2017, 2:44 PM

    In a country with such a rich musical heritage, the orchestra is an invaluable cultural asset. RTE’s funding is well spent in retaining talented and creative musicians in Ireland, showcasing fantastic performances and providing inspiration for the next generation of Irish musicians.

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    Mute Michael Bride
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    Nov 10th 2017, 11:26 AM

    Arts funding in this state is, like so much else, an public kitty to be pilfered by the elite but I don’t think that applies here-though I’m sure some orchestra administrators are grossly overpaid. The musicians themselves are an asset and an inspiration to youngsters who get precious little funding or encouragement through education funding-if they didn’t have these jobs to aspire to practice, at least for working class kids, could be discouraged or appear pointless. We are entitled to bread AND roses!

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    Mute Francis Devenney
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    Nov 10th 2017, 11:58 AM

    @Michael Bride: Agreed, Also the RTE orchestras do a lot of educational work it’s one of the best things about them.

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    Mute Hanna-Mari Marshall
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    Nov 10th 2017, 6:41 PM

    To anyone who thinks two orchestras in one country is too much: for example in Finland there are about 30 professional orchestras and the country’s population is 5 million. Licence fees pay for a radio orchestra and also national TV and radio channels which have no commercials on them. I’m sure RTE could think of other ways of saving money, they could start by giving all the highly paid TV presenters a little paycut. Maybe the next poll could be about wether Ryan Tubridy deserves my TV licence money?
    Anyone who thinks that the orchestras are elitist should find out what kind of concerts they do, there is something for everyone. Tickets are not that expensive, you would spend the same money going to the cinema. It’s true that they should perform more outside of Dublin, that’s up to their management to organise if people think that would justify their existence. They also perform on TV and radio which anyone can watch and listen to anywhere in the country. The profiles of the two orchestras are very different and that’s why they both are needed. The whole point of supporting the orchestras with public money is to keep them accessible and ticket prices reasonable. If the orchestras had to fund everything themselves the ticket prices would be so high that no one could afford to go and hear them. THEN they would be elitist.

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    Mute Craig Stuart Garfinkle
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    Nov 10th 2017, 3:57 PM

    Dublin and Ireland are blessed with two of the best orchestras world-wide. You can’t put a value on what they bring to the community and to music. They are priceless:

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    Mute Joe Walsh
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    Nov 10th 2017, 11:50 AM

    I’ve never ever seen them or heard them play. Why pay for something that is not of benefit to the sibscriber.

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    Mute RJ.Fallon
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    Nov 10th 2017, 1:12 PM

    @Joe Walsh: I’m a subscriber and I benefit greatly .and I’v heard and seen them many many times.

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    Mute Larry Fitzwell
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    Nov 10th 2017, 11:51 AM

    Bottom line for me, is actually the bottom line of the P&L….!!!
    How can it possibly cost €1.6m per month. It must be a full time job for someone just to write the cheques!

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    Mute Kevin O'Sullivan
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    Nov 10th 2017, 10:44 PM

    Without RTÉ funding these internationally renowned orchestras, Ireland wouldn’t have Professional Orchestras. Without professional orchestras all professional musicians would emigrate. With them gone, we wouldn’t have those who decide to teach too. Without those high class teachers, the level of classical music would drop dramatically in the country.

    Thanks to the work of these orchestras & other nationally funded music ensembles Ireland is now producing some world class musicians. On top of that our orchestras are filling up with native talent where before most if not all were foreign.

    Don’t dis the impact this has on culture here.

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    Mute pat seery
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    Nov 10th 2017, 2:07 PM

    It would be nice to see them live with there own show
    They were Brilliant on the Late Late
    More live performance please

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    Mute Liam Byrne
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    Nov 10th 2017, 3:44 PM

    I think so. I hate RTE, but there’s an objective value in an orchestra, even if it’s loss making. I’d rather the orchestra than 90% of garbage that’s produced by RTE,

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    Mute prop joe
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    Nov 10th 2017, 12:11 PM

    I would say, give them some money but 12 million seems excessive. Why don’t RTE show the orchestra? They are on very few shows.

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    Mute Brian Hughes
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    Nov 10th 2017, 12:14 PM

    @prop joe: The Concert Orchestra were on the Late Late about 2 weeks ago…

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    Mute Deano Cracow
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    Nov 10th 2017, 3:21 PM

    @prop joe: Don’t they perform on “Up for the match”

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    Mute Seamus O Laighleis
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    Nov 10th 2017, 3:03 PM

    Encrypt RTÉ . Let the people who want it pay for it!

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    Mute Brendan
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    Nov 11th 2017, 11:03 AM

    The Orchestras are a national treasure and should both be kept. They’re not there to make money, they’re here to provide the public with beautiful music and I’m happy for my license fee to keep doing so. We have two of the best orchestras in the world, if RTE want to save a few bob, then maybe have a look at the rubbish soaps they like to buy.

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    Mute oh i dunno
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    Nov 10th 2017, 8:52 PM

    The government propaganda machine needs to be closed down…its 2017

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    Mute Dave barrett
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    Nov 10th 2017, 3:25 PM

    Does any one except the arty farty crowd actually listen to orchestras

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    Mute John Joseph Barry
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    Nov 10th 2017, 12:26 PM

    It should be part of:

    Arts | Department of Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht.

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    Mute Niall Conneely
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    Nov 10th 2017, 3:58 PM

    Yes but they need to tour outside Dublin more often

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    Mute Katie Harnett Devereux
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    Nov 11th 2017, 10:35 AM

    While I may not be a working musician, I did study music and know many people who are musicians who both play with the RTECO and other orchestras. These orchestras currently cannot support them financially. Nearly all of them need to work other jobs on order to live. Teaching, playing weddings, funerals, bars etc to earn a wage. On top of this they need to practise their instruments for several hours a day in order to be capable to play at concert level and then go to rehearsals with the orchestra and spend hours making sure you are in perfect sync before you can preform in front of an audience. So they 100% work for the money they receieve. Allocating part of the licencing fee to the orchestra ensures that they can play a full range of music and continuously introduce people to the wonders of music and not just classical. The orchestras have worked with Irish composers, provided back up for rock concerts, movie scores and of course introducing school children to the wonders of music through concerts specifically tailored to teach them about music around the country. I remember being in school and attending these concerts and falling in love with music. It would be such a shame to take away the funds needed to support these orchestras because without the government this programs could not be expected to survive and not because people do not want them to succeed. It would happen because people will always think that the price of the concert ticket will be enough to support these orchestras but it is so much more then that. Without the support from the government, ticket costs would rise significantly reducing the amount of people who would be available to go see them and the possibility of them being able to do concerts for school children would end. The arts are incredibly important we must continue to support them otherwise creativity and wonder would be sure to slowly fade away.

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    Mute Mikey Maguire
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    Nov 10th 2017, 3:48 PM

    Yes, but they should do at least one extensive tour of the country each year.

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    Mute The Irish Bull
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    Nov 10th 2017, 2:05 PM

    Reduce the weather girls from 30 to say, 3.

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    Mute Rachel Didleu
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    Nov 10th 2017, 11:38 AM

    with all the people croaking it in rte these days they better keep the baton master….they will probably need him/her

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    Mute Karen Cahill
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    Nov 10th 2017, 12:35 PM

    There are Arts councils all over the country which often have budget surpluses every year because people don’t think to apply for funding – surely any end of year surpluses should be diverted to the orchestras for the following year, or else cut back the Arts Council budgets – I’m all for funding the Arts in this country but it appears a lot of artists don’t use the facility, so let’s put that money to good use? I know one council which has had budget surpluses of nearly 100,000 Every year for the past 4 years – and that’s only ONE office.
    Maybe that money could be better allocated?

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    Mute Hugh Jass
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    Nov 10th 2017, 12:16 PM

    Great, time to see the journal comments for answers. Sooooo many experts on one forum is really a sight to behold.

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    Mute Leitrim303
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    Nov 10th 2017, 7:39 PM

    I never paid the licence fee once in 20 years of having a tv. The licence fee is a scam from a semi state company to extort money from people.

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    Mute Eileen Jallali
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    Nov 10th 2017, 3:43 PM

    The license fee of a large population like Britain’s is sufficient to cover costs as opposed to a licence fee from far fewer households in the Republic of Ireland (at a gues one twentieth the number of households), so its about critical mass.

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    Mute Neville Mc Carthy
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    Nov 11th 2017, 12:40 AM

    Nothing that comes from RTE is a good use of license fee money !!

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    Mute Eoin Doe
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    Nov 10th 2017, 1:35 PM

    Who selects “I don’t know on these polls” there hardly life altering choices

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    Mute Pizyco
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    Nov 10th 2017, 8:17 PM

    @Eoin Doe: I get your point but the question is the orchestras a good use of License fee money might not be something some people fee they can answer – maybe it is a good use – maybe it isn’t – surely I can just answer I don’t know if I don’t know…as it happens I don’t know….maybe thats a more honest answer than those who claim to know but judging by the comments actually have a very ill informed view

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    Mute Seamus O Brien
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    Nov 10th 2017, 2:09 PM

    How come the same sort of support isn’t available for traditional Irish music. I’d love to see the RTE Ceili Band!!

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    Mute Tracey Fitz
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    Nov 11th 2017, 8:04 PM

    Absolutely !!! It’s the ONLY good thing they do with our money. The programming is a joke- nothing but repeats and over-rated over-paid broadcasters. If they cut the funding for the orchestra they’ll be loosing my licence fee. It’s the only reason I pay it now. I don’t watch TV anymore

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    Mute thesaltyurchin
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    Nov 11th 2017, 9:22 AM

    If you want to achieve anything in the arts you still really have to leave and go somewhere where these things are appreciated. By and large and like so many other facets of Irish society we’re simply not ready, we would still rather it was bad or didn’t exist. Capitalism is our daddy, and he doesn’t like pealing off notes from the roll for pish-posh like the arts. I blame the Romans for not quite making it.

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    Mute Phil Swan
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    Nov 10th 2017, 7:53 PM

    Shower of pompous fukerts the lot of them. Make them earn a wage like the rest of us and they might begin to behave like humans again. RTECO reckon they are gods.

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    Mute Brian Moss
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    Nov 10th 2017, 1:49 PM

    Jenny Greene and RTE Orchestra performance was probably the most packed tent at EP and got rave reviews, more of this to make it more accessible to non elitists , think there should certainly be a national orchestra but 2 seems accessive and the running costs coukd no doubt be reduced but wouldn’t like it go , as secret RTE producer has been brilliantly revealing plenty of other areas where money could be saved !

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    Mute Garreth Byrne
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    Nov 10th 2017, 6:57 PM

    Now we know what proportion of the journal visitors don’t listen to classical music. All the same, I think Dave Fanning as a disc jockey is great value for money. As for Marty in the Morning on Lyric FM, nein danke.

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    Mute Bob McTanned
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    Nov 10th 2017, 12:29 PM

    I think RTE is great value for money overall, especially Reeling in the Years and the Late Late Show

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