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EAMON GILMORE HAS joined Michael Noonan, Richard Bruton and a host of others in denouncing Michael Fingleton and the expenses that he claimed as the former boss of the Nationwide Building Society. Fingleton has already refused to repay the €1m bonus that he received during his last year of tenure and while this is likely to be legally upheld, the expenses are something different.
The Tanaiste has gone as far as to suggest that legal action should be considered. I’ve lived in Ireland for the best part of nine years and based on the evidence that I have seen so far, he should save his breath. Nothing will be done. Unless, that is, if you favour the route to justice that sees a laborious inquiry that takes years and years to complete, offers very stilted opinion and achieves nothing, other than furthering the burden to the taxpayer with exorbitant costs.
There is no doubt that the expense claims are absolutely despicable. There is absolutely no doubt that every single tax-payer in this country should be absolutely outraged at the way that Fingleton and others used the Irish banks as their own personal banking fiefdoms. But the far greater outrage should be directed at the distinct lack of action being taken. I am really struggling to understand the distinct inactivity.
The current issues surround expenses claimed by Michael Fingleton totalling €87,205. This included bills at the K Club totalling €48,000, over €12,000 to cover dental treatment and a further €2,600 for a two night stay at the Dorchester Hotel in London for Fingleton and his wife. All of this on top of a very handsome salary and substantial pension facility.
Ever felt like you were taken advantage of?
If any further proof was needed of the completely different lifestyle of the nation’s bankers, this is most definitely it. There is no doubt that the architects of the most debilitating financial situation that this country has experienced, knew how to enjoy themselves. Ultimately all at our expense! Fingleton, Drumm and a host of others quaffed champagne, dined in the finest restaurants, stayed in the most lavish of hotels and partied whilst the rest of us were left with a tab that we didn’t even know about at the time. Ever felt like you were taken advantage of?
Taoiseach Enda Kenny, speaking in Warsaw, said that he detects a real sense of anger in people about the “carry-on” of some elements of banking over recent years, that has impacted severely on people’s lifestyles and on their quality of life.
He added that: “They would like to see that if there are people out there that are guilty, they should be brought before the courts and if the courts decide to punish them, that the law of the land should take its course.”
“People don’t want to see these things drag on interminably, and I hope that the statutory authorities charged with following these things up continue to do so as expeditiously as is possible,” he said.
As the leader of the country I think we would all expect him to do a little bit more than “hope”.
We are in danger of obssessing over the particular issue of the expenses claimed by one person
Why is Ireland so far behind the curve in dealing with white collar indiscretions? In the UK, former environment minister Elliot Morley was recently freed from prison after serving a quarter of his 16-month sentence for fiddling his parliamentary expenses. Kweku Adoboli, the rogue trader at the centre of the losses at Swiss Bank, has had no opportunity at freedom, remains in custody and prosecutors have already extended the charges that he is facing. This is justice taking its course in the right and appropriate manner. Neither have the opportunity to avoid questions as they are demanded to answer them.
However, recent media suggests that we are in danger of obssessing over the particular issue of the expenses claimed by one person. If the only return for a banking crisis that at Irish Nationwide alone resulted in a €5.4bn bailout is the repayment of a far smaller sum of expenses, then something is very wrong. We have experienced first-hand how inept the banking system was and now are being subjected to a similar display by the judiciary. The Government is also seriously out of touch with public opinion if they think a prosecution for dodgy expenses will appease the general public’s sense of justice. It would really only be the very tip of the iceberg.
To date, the Irish judicial system has failed spectacularly to bring anyone to trial. Fingleton’s expense claims are despicable but there are still far greater injustices that need to be explored far more aggressively than they currently are. We are being led away from the real focus.
I have no doubt that that there are numerous offences that can be charged. Unfortunately it will only happen if you are prepared to look and have the inclination to bring these people to trial. I see no evidence of either at the moment.
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Lets hope the whistleblowers have the protection they deserve for taking such a brave step.
Sad to say from what I have read and heard Clare Daly say, that they have whistle blown before and got in deep trouble in the Guards. A superior struck one of them.
They are brave honest men, that just have had enough of the culture of the Guards and the sad truth is that they will suffer for it.
Unfortunately Ms Dalys speech showed that she doesn’t understand the issue at all. This isn’t a matter of removing penalty points. Gardai can’t do that. It’s an issue cancelling tickets.
Sean. Higher ranks can cancel them. The issue is not whether they word cancelled or removed are technically correct, the spirit of both is correct in her usage.
It is disturbing to see that someone is nit picking and distracting over such serious issues and endemic problem. A problem that reflects very poorly on the entire force and its commitment to all being equal before the law and its ability to perform in an honest and impartial manner. If you are a Guard then your attitude is reflective of the cultural problem in the force and very worrying.
I can’t help but notice you named yourself after Healy Ray, the independent who held back his support for a government until he could get as much as he could for his locality. And yet you take the moral high ground.
In any case, the fact is that Ms Dalys representation of the issue was completely wrong and over the top. There’s a big difference between wiping a driving record and cancelling a ticket.
Gardai have discretion when it comes to prosecuting because sometimes a prosecution is not the best course of action. There are many many legitimate reasons for cancelling a ticket and there has yet to be one piece of evidence to suggest any of these tickets were cancelled for anything other than legitimate reasons. Your sole source of outrage is based on the occupation of the person involved and that says more about you than anything.
And by the way Mr Ray, higher ranks cannot remove penalty points either. Gardai have nothing to do with them at all. They only deal with the ticket.
Sean. The Healy Ray Gun thing is what they called that man in the Phoenix.
It is not just about one person, it is about thousands. Course there are many reasons to not write these up, a friendly warning just as effective. Mitigating circumstances etc.
The problem here is that certain very well connected people were repeatedly getting away with this, repeatedly able to bend the system to suit them.
Gardaí above the rank of superintendent have the power to do this.
Surely Sean you can agree that these 2 whistle blowers have done the rule of law and their country a service. Though it will make the Guard colleagues who are more concerned with status and an easy life uncomfortable.
My apologies for misinderstanding your name. Again, no Garda of any rank can remove a penalty point from a licence. This cannot be done. All they can do is cancel a ticket before it is paid. This is no different than a Garda letting you off because you are waiting on your tax disc or have your NCT next week.
You are still judging the legitimacy of a cancelled ticket soleky by the perceived status of the person involved
On the topic of a whistleblower. The person involved did nothing noble. He released private information about thousands of people, if he had released the information of a few dodgy people that’d be different. But he didn’t discriminate between those who were legitimate and those that weren’t and that’s pretty wrong. What if you were that guy who got his ticket cancelled because you were bringing your child to the hospital. Now your name is on this list were you are considered dodgy because you have a good job. You can’t honestly say that’s right.
In at least nine cases highlighted in the dossier, a motorist who had their points quashed went on to be involved in a fatal road-traffic accident. That is 9 funerals that may or may not have been averted by the force doing its job in a professional and impartial manner.
As for the person driving their kids to the hospital, that will still be a mitigating circumstance. Who is the man who had these struck off 4 times in one year. Does he have a chronically sick child. I’d bet good money that he does not.
Institutional Ireland is obsessed with deference to authority, people with status. This applies to the Guards as well, could the child abuse scandals have continued at such industrial scales for so long without the force willfully neglecting its duty. We both know that this is not the case.
What is wrong with having a professional, capable and competent force. ??? What is wrong with being held to high standards.? What is wrong with people being expected to do their jobs?.
Yeah mybe they’d have gotten 12 points, or maybe it was their first points. Maybe that guy frove badly four times or maybe his reg was cloned ot maybe his car was stolen. Do you not think some facts should be established before you condemn tens of thousands of people?
What a relief. There will be a rigorous investigation by the Gardaí for the Gardaí into the Gardaí.
Callinan’s pet hamster is crawling through the files as we speak in a very through manner.
The Hamster would like to state that it agrees with Comm. Callinan that it was the fault of the individual Guards and that even though when failings on such an endemic scale in a police force internationally would mean the head resigning that this is not appropriate here.
Now get me the file on Christine Bohan and put a speeding check point up outside her house for the next week.
Supposedly good cops investigating bad cops! The mind boggles
The whole thing is a joke. Don’t expect anything to come of this. Accountability doesn’t exist in Ireland.
Adebayo
Never trusted a Garda with a tash always looks like they want to be in the PSNI or in Callinan’s case the village people
Overly dramatic, but I like to read this statement as “You close my stations, I dig up your penalty points.”
Them penalty points were just resting in my account!!
Lol I’m sure he has made a few penalty points disappear in his career to get where he is now…
Lets wait and see. I really don’t think the majority of the Garda will defend the actions of a few.
Not a nice situation to be put into and fair play to the whistle blowers
Mike, the scale of this suggests that it is not the actions of a few but a very widespread and normal event.
The 3 pillars of the State were FF, the Church and the Guards. The first 2 have been shown to be institutionally corrupt. Why would a force that the FBI described as highly secretive not be.
The Guards need massive reform,that there was not after the Donegal cases, is shocking. The Donegal investigation was like the Church’s first dioceses investigation. We all knew that the shocking results would be replicated every where else.
The Guards need to be reformed like the RUC were. They need to be forced in to being a professional,honest, open and competent force. That may mean wholesale redundancies across the older management but so be it.
healy you is missing the biggest pillars in our society the judiciary these guys are also allowed to police themselves
Commissioner Callinan, have you ever personally cancelled or authorized the cancelling of any penalty points?
If so, will the circumstances of these cancellations be included in this investigation?
You can be certain that members of the last Govt. were involved in this. They and their families certainly gained from this. Could you imagine one of Bertie’s Ministers not pulling rank, making calls and forcing points to be struck off. They weren’t exactly people who considered themselves to be mucking away with the rest of us.
Their phones will be hopping red calling people about this. This investigation will be bogged down alone by the people making threats to this quiet.
It’s been going on for years , even with drink driving charges, from the top down to the bottom
A neighbour of mine used to get charged years ago with drinking driving about once a year. The Guards used drive him to the court and lo and behold by the time they got the 5 miles to the court house the matter was resolved. The are a very large no. of Guards that are frankly out of control.
What total and utter tripe. To suggest that a matter that was then before a court of law could be sorted in a patrol car, or other Garda driven vehicle, on the way to that very court in the absence of a judge and before the case was even mentioned in court without is simply stupid and impossible. Where did you grow up? You have clearly no understanding of how courts work. Your exaggerated posts here today are frankly annoying.
@Healy Rae gun.
Up to this comment I was taking your comments on board. After reading this drunk driving comment I now realise that you have absolutely no idea what your talking about. To suggest that a case before a Judge in a district court could be sorted in a patrol car is utter nonsense.
*you’re
Gerard. I don’t know how he did it, a word with the Judge not to bar him from driving, rather a fine, who knows. . This was in the 90′s before I was driving. It happened several times. He told me that they always worked it out before it got to court. This is a creative country when it comes to innovation, especially when it comes to bending the rules.
Mike. Your a bit innocent if you think that matters like this only can be settled in the court in front of a Judge. That presumes that people are acting in accordance with the law, namely the Judge and the Guard. Favours can be done and cases thrown out, dismissed or events where a licence should be taken reduced to a fine, after a word between friends.
Unfortunately many in the Justice system in Ireland does not always worry about the procedure or the rigour of the law.
Are you now suggesting that the particular district court judge of the time was in cahoots with the Gardai to look after this particular individual and that it happened several times? Stick to what you know about like a good man and don’t be posting rubbish. I doubt anyone here is taking your uninformed comments very seriously. Read up on the Road Traffic Legislation/court system and familiarise yourself with the career of A/Commissioner John O’Mahony while you are at it. You might not be so quick to call him a ‘Hamster’ if you had the remotest clue of what he has done in the force.
@healy ray gun
if this happened in the 90′s then he would have had to be summons to court, not charged.
why would the guard first summons him only to get him off on it.
and yes once charges/summons are before the courts only the judge can cancel them, and then for various reasons. and if he was before the judge then its a man suspension from driving.
alot of holes in your story, me think its one of those it hapepened to a friend of a friend of mine storys
Actually the Hamster that I was referring to was an actual pet hamster. That was how serious I believed the investigation will be.
It is not a friend of a friend story, he is a neighbour who was a habitual drunk driver. I had no more interest then, as now in the procedures that happened.
A friendly donation made it all go away. How that was done, I do not know. That it happened, it certainly did.
There are no shortage Guards, it is usually the older ones mind you, that are off. A lot of older Guards learnt their trade and culture from people who active in the force in the 70′s and 80′s. A period when the force was frankly out of control. When several of the Ministers of that time were shown to be profoundly corrupt.
There is a culture of denial in the Gardaí and closing ranks to the problems in the force. Look at the Morris report in to activities by a certain Guards in Donegal,that report was about the 90′s, the force has a very large no. of exceptionally bad apples in it. Not all, not by a long shot but there is a rot, especially in older ones.
Christ Healy-Ray-Gun, you’ve a serious axe to grind with the Gardai!! You’ve spent all day on here offering up your amazing theories and tales of Garda corruption!! You must either have been done for no tax recently or directed off home by a the local Guard Saturday night after one too many shandys in the local!!
I’m glad to say that I’ve never been in their view or never needed to have the Guards look at me.
If the police force of a state has a long history of failure, then it is a concern for us all.
If the Gardaí as a force were not so malleable to the powers that be would we have had such mass corruption for decades, industrial child abuse.
The force has failed this country in very serious ways and at great cost to all of us. This is about the bigger picture.
So you lost out in the height requirement then when you opted to join up!! Much back pain carrying that chip around on your shoulder!?!
So now you are blaming the Gardai for ‘mass corruption’ and the sorry history of industrial abuse in this country. Oh right… I’m sorry to say that we can’t all see the ‘bigger picture’ like yourself. Fair play to you Healy Ray for telling us though. You have a bright future.
Was your neighbour drunk when he was telling all this?
Hang on a minute! An investigation of the Gardai, for the Gardai, by the Gardai? Surely something as serious as police corruption, ie favours for the elites should be investigated by an outside body? This has all the hallmarks of a whitewash written all over it! Yet again we will be showing the world that the Irish don’t know what ‘accountability’ means. How are they being allowed to get away with this? I notice the politicians and the judiciary are deathly silent about this, wonder why that is???
what, that’s how the state works, no external independent review bodies, HSE, the Gardai, the CIE, they break the law? they find thank to their own internal investigations that they have not broken any law, all is good thank you very much. You on the other hand, you break the law? 6 years in prison.
LOL… this is how you get your self in trouble. It’s an un-written rule that people who are connected don’t get awarded penelty points in the first place. It’s in the garda’s interest not to annoy someone off that can potentially cause detriment to their career prospects with a phone call or casual word. Once you put it in official reccord you don’t try and get it erased.
There are plenty of gardai’s own kids or family friends who have had issues with petty theft or vandalism etc where the report never gets made or goes missing. It’s also, I’ve heard a well known “quirk of the justice system” that cars with member stickers from certain south county dublin/wicklow golf courses/clubs don’t get pulled over.
WhAt is your basis for this complete and utter nonsense??
Well known “quirk of the system” that cars with certain stickers don’t get pulled over? Absolute bull.
Gardaí don’t get investigated by outside? What are the ombudsman?
The problem with this country is people like you hearing urban myths and taking them as gospel.
Such utter drivel but I expect nothing less of the journals trolls at this stage.
According to an interview on The Last Word, some of the recipients of this were staff in the Gardaí ombudsman. That is frankly shocking. If they are on the list someone has to loose their jobs. If they asked for it, then they must be dismissed as they are tainted. If the Super. did it then he must be fired for trying to use leverage. This is a lot more than just helping people. That is trading favours.
There is very serious problems in the force and its members seem to be in complete denial about this. Instead of being outraged at the practices and members that have damaged the reputation of the force in the eyes of so many law abiding citizens.
Interesting to know who’s penalty points were cancelled. Let me guess off duty Garda, politicians, friends of both and judges.
People who go under the title in Ireland of ” being from respectable families” but they like to call themselves “your betters”.
According to the Matt Cooper Show on Monday I think it was, there were also some staff on from the Gardaí ombudsman’s office. What a stink.
Healy gun.
Why don’t ya just fook off while your only this far behind.
Your trying too hard now.
No investigation then..
So, his first comment is that there is no question that there is a culture of wrongdoing. His second comment is that the investigation will be comprehensive.
It seems he’s made his mind up, and this leads towards the impression of a whitewash – “A few individual cases of wrongdoing… Tut tut… Slap on wrist… New policies.”
It should be an outside investigation.
Ahh guys.
Come on.
Give the poor judges a break.
You know that some of them are very busy these days, speeding around, defrauding pensioners of their life savings and lying in court.
Not to mention having to (without fail) side with corrupt/criminal banks in throwing a lot of us (including many guards) out of their homes.
Or more convieniently those guilty will be retiring anyway…stinks.
50000 tickets were firstly issued by regular Gardai and Sergeants, so they were obviously doing their jobs. From my understanding only a member of superintendent rank or higher can cancel a ticket, so it is a small minority of the force. Albeit a powerful minority. As for an independent investigation,I’m sure the Garda Ombudsman are chomping at the bit to get onto this one and if they do heads will roll!!!!
They reckon that in lost fines it cost the state 75mn.
The Garda Ombudsman will get a frostier reception in this than a Black Irish Jew investigating the KKK in 1960′s Alabama.
@Healy Rae
Where on earth are you getting your figures from?? Did you just pick 75 million out of your head?
50000 tickets times €80 each is €4m is it not?
On careful consideration that one does appear to be pulled out of my wazoo.
Yeah along with most of the tripe you’ve written here today.
You just showed yourself for the troll you are!
You’re badly caught out there Ray-Gun!! #Fail
Zapped myself in the foot as such.
Usual spout of diatribe. So much corruption in this State and is it a wonder when nobody goes unpunished for it. If this was the UK heads would roll. Ah sure in time this will be swept under the carpet as is the Irish way of ascertaining power over the minions.
When did they make Vicente del Bosque the Garda commissioner??
Haha, he is the spit of him
Yer man looks like Spain manager Vincente del Bosque…
This has been going on for years my friend got his ticket cancelled in return for two all Ireland tickets.
They will have to sack half the force if the offence is cancelling tickets.
Wonder if the Gaurds responsible or any officials will be suspended with or without pay?
does a cancelled ticket not equate to cancelled points?
Am I missing something here? The Commissioner’s statement reads as though he is announcing the findings of the internal investigation. Opps! Of course he is!
So are they looking to take away garda discretion? What’s wrong with giving someone a chance? Leave it out
simple lesson there chief commissioner, stop aiding corruption!
When did Vincente Del Bosque become Garda commissioner!!???
He’s a ringer for René François Artois in ‘Allo ‘Allo
maybe he has the fallen madonna with the big boobies
One of the news articles refers to tens of thousands of motorists benefiting from this practice but only a few senior Gardai have access to this. The only conclusion that I can reach is that there must have been some organised system of feeding all this requests to these people. I’d imagine that even under this system that not all requests were granted. Can a few Gardai know so many people?
Jesus if the Police were to enforce the law they would be ostracised in their golf clubs, GAA clubs etc. everybody breaks the speed limit and most people in towns around Ireland are friendly with the local Policeman or woman. That is how communities work well. Information for favours has been the greatest form of crime prevention in Ireland for years. Total tolerance is acceptable within certain groups in society and that’s just life in Ireland. It’s who you know and always has been. Most people in the civil service got jobs there through friends or family. Who in society did not use connections to get a favour? Look no further than Rory Quinn creating a job for Mrs Gilmore that only she could do, no interviews just a nod and a wink. I think the senior police and detectives are allowed use whatever is needed to police our country and the rank and file are just like the rest of us. Detectives have huge power as that is their position and they act on information and pursue criminals as they think might be dangerous to society. If they trade favours and a criminal is jailed I think it is the Irish way. So be it. It is their only useful resource sometimes to get things done.
Well put.
Well said .
Healy ray gun, get a life.
wow he looks a lot like vincente del bosque !
hahahah hes a ringer, good spot!
does a guard just not have to appear in court to get a ticket and the associated points cancelled?
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