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Updated: 7.39pm
PARIS AUTHORITIES SAY that a terrorist team was “neutralised” by a police raid this morning that led to two suspected Jihadists being killed and eight arrested.
The massive raid in the suburb of Saint-Denis saw police fire 5,000 rounds of ammunition in a shootout with the suspected terrorists.
Two suspected Jihadists were killed, including a woman who blew herself up.
The raid was part of the police hunt for Abdelhamid Abaaoud, believed to be the mastermind of last week’s attacks on the French capital that killed 129 people.
This evening, Paris prosecutor Francois Molins said that Abaaoud was not among those arrested and his fate is unknown.
“A new team of terrorists was neutralised and all indications are that given their arms, their organisational structure and their determination, the commando could have struck,” Molins said.
He did not eliminate the possibility that Abaaoud was killed, saying the identities of those dead is still being investigated.
(Police assault on the sound and the explosion in the apartment)
At least two bodies were found in the badly damaged building after the shootout, but their state was complicating efforts to identify them, Molins told a press conference.
The body that had sustained a number of gunshots was “not in a state that allows it to be identified”, he said.
Due to the severe damage to the building, it was impossible to know how many died and who they were, the prosecutor said.
“I am not able to give you a precise number and identity of those killed. There are at least two dead and verifications will likely take longer than expected,” he added
CNN earlier reported that five police officers sustained minor injuries and a police dog was killed in the assault.
Eyewitnesses described seeing troops patrolling the streets as heavily-armed police swapped gunfire with people holed up in an apartment.
Two people in the apartment were killed, including the woman who blew herself up with an explosives vest.
Eight arrests have been made, but none of the people detained have been identified.
The raid began before dawn, at around 4.00am (03.30 GMT), at an apartment at the crossroads of Rue de la Republique and Rue Corbillon.
Molins said telephone surveillance and witness reports “led us to believe” that Abaaoud had been in the apartment.
Abaaoud is an Islamic State fighter who was previously thought to be in Syria after fleeing raids in his native Belgium earlier this year.
“A cowardly act”
French President Francois Hollande has today addressed French mayors to discuss proposals to extend the state of emergency by three months.
Hollande said his thought were with the families of all victims of the “cowardly act” last Friday night.
Speaking to the officials, he said operations in Syria have been intensified and called for a “large coalition to carry out decisive strikes”.
Not all countries have the same approach or same allies but what is at stake is the annihilation of an army which threatens the whole world and not only some countries as opposed to others.
He said the extension of the state of emergency in France will mean “some temporary restrictions to freedoms” such as administrative searches and home arrests.
This is necessary in order to dismantle the terrorist network and isolate radicalised elements within the country, he told mayors, as well as to put a stop to trafficking which might give them the logistics and money they need to commit “heinous crimes”.
Hollande told the assembly of mayors that these decisions are not taken lightly but assured them France “will remain a country of freedom”.
The proposal to extend the state of emergency will be put to vote by lawmakers tomorrow and Friday. Hollande will also meet Putin in Moscow on 26 November, two days after seeing US President Barack Obama in Washington.
Exchange of fire
Residents of the Paris suburb where the raid took place this morning, some of whom were evacuated in their underwear, said they had been caught in a terrifying exchange of fire.
Hayat, 26, had been leaving a friend’s apartment where she had spent the night when the shots erupted.
“I heard gunfire,” she said. “I could have been hit by a bullet. I never thought terrorists could have hid here.”
The raid came after footage from the scene of one of Paris attacks revealed a ninth suspect may have taken part. It is known that seven were killed in the carnage on Friday, most after detonating suicide belts.
It was not clear if the ninth man was one of two suspected accomplices detained in Belgium or was still on the run, potentially with 26-year-old fugitive Frenchman Salah Abdeslam who took part in the attacks with his suicide-bomber brother Brahim.
Police also carried out multiple raids in southwest France. The operations were part of an anti-terrorism strategy but not directly linked to the Paris attacks, an investigator said.
The area is home to the Stade de France, one of several places hit by gunmen and suicide bombers on Friday in the worst ever attack on French soil, which was claimed by the Islamic State jihadist group.
The coordinated assaults killed 129 people and injured more than 350, some of them critically.
‘Booms like grenades’
A local resident who identified herself as Alexia told AFP she heard shots, “‘booms like grenades and then intermittent bursts of gunfire”.
“I heard bursts of machine gun fire,” Reda, a taxi driver, said. “I got out (of the car), masked policemen stopped us and told us to leave.”
The raid came as Europe was placed on high alert after footage from the scene of one of Friday’s attacks revealed a ninth suspect may have taken part.
It was not clear if this ninth man was one of two suspected accomplices detained in Belgium or was on the run, potentially with 26-year-old fugitive Frenchman Salah Abdeslam who took part in the attacks with his suicide-bomber brother Brahim.
Police also carried out raids in southwestern France, in Ariege, Toulouse and the department of the Haute-Garonne.
The operations were part of an anti-terrorism strategy and not the probe into the Paris, an investigator told AFP.
Additional reporting from AP and by Orla Ryan, Catherine Healy, Michelle Hennessy and Rónán Duffy.
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This is just a publicity stunt. Pence went to the game with the intention of walking out.
@Dermot Lane: only if they kneeled
@Dermot Lane: with these guys what isn’t a PR stunt?
@john Appleseed: reporters were told to stay outside before game because something was going to happen.
@Dermot Lane: he had a plane ready to bring him to a lucrative fund raiser! Also his and Trumps silence on Nazis marching again in Charlottesville is deafening.
Surely if NFL players have a right to protest under the First Amendment then people like Pence who walks out in protest at the players disrespect for the flag and anthem are equally allowed to do a protest… In this case walk out… It surely works both ways.. one is allowed protest by kneeling and it’s others decision to walk out, not watch, boycott etc….
@LITTLEONE: of course he does. But who exactly is the second most powerful person in America protesting to? Also, himself, his wife and his staff and security went on a 4,000 mile flight at the tax payers expense to do it.
@LITTLEONE: If this type of stunt happened in Ireland you’d be screaming about the cost to the taxpayer of flying 2,000 miles with massive entourage/security, just to turn around and come back again.
Dave think he said why he walked out.
I will not dignify any event that disrespects our soldiers, our flag, or our national anthem,” Pence wrote on Twitter. Which is his decision…
@Brinster: don’t think this would happen in Ireland… Because sports people here show respect to the national anthem..
@LITTLEONE: he could have saved the taxpayer a fortune and sent that tweet from home as the reason he didn’t go. Also, the protest does not disrespect any of those things. Kneeling is a show of respect
@LITTLEONE: most here don’t sing it.
@Dave O Keeffe: most here don’t sing? So Dave. I don’t sing it either but I do stand for it … What’s singing it got to do with it??????
@Dermot Lane: ok, I’m actually not 100% sure why kneeling for the national anthem is disrespecting the country, can someone explain?
@LITTLEONE:
If the police here started shooting people at the same rate as they do in the US, that might change…
@LITTLEONE: he hasn’t been to a game there in years, according to one of the players. Publicity stunt.
@Brinster: so your ok with them kneeling to protest police….. Need I remind you those police saved countless lives last week in las Vegas….
@LITTLEONE: they are protesting what they feel is unfair treatment of black Americans by law enforcement and the courts. If you think they’re making it up I suggest you look into Baltimore PD and the difference in sentencing for crack vs powder cocaine. They are not protesting against everything the police do. Just like when people were marching for civil rights they weren’t protesting against the abolition of slavery
@LITTLEONE:
I’m ok with people exercising a right to protest in a manner that impacts no one negatively.
What they protest about is their own concern.
Though I find it very odd that many of the people who run down the Gardai here on a daily basis have such incredible respect for US police….
@Dave O Keeffe: then maybe they should protest outside police stations on their own time … Not bring it into a football stadium… Unless your of the mind that sports is now open season for protests of every sort…
Yep sure it would go down a treat… Next year all Ireland final day… Both teams will either kneel , sit or do exercises while national anthem is playing in protest at whatever takes their fancy…. Because it’s the norm now… Bring protests into sports …. If you criticise it … Your wrong..
@Larissa Caroline Nikolaus: what a derogative comment..
@LITTLEONE:
For clarity -
The first amendment is not a citizen right per se, it is a state and local government restriction.
This means, in this particular case, that when the Vice President “protest” the players kneeling, the state government is effectively and publicly opposing individuals expressing themselves.
This opposition can well be interpreted as an attempt to restrict freedom of speech and expression.
Such an attempt would be unconstitutional.
@Dave O Keeffe: hey Dave.? How many protests away from the national anthem at football stadiums have these NFL players organised … How many times have they protested against these police in the areas where these happened? Surely if they are that concerned then they would be and have been doing something all this time away from the NFL…
@LITTLEONE:
One tends to protest where one has a voice.
@Liam Doyle: then that should be same then for the players… Obviously people have a right to protest, have there different opinions , but I personally don’t think sports or the national anthem is the place for it… Do it on your own time away from the place where your paid millions to play. Why doesn’t the NFL organise a national protest away from the stadiums and national anthem and let people show their support for what these people are protesting about in cities all around the country.. why bring it into the sport..
Stadiums.
@LITTLEONE: you can’t blame one side for doing it in a football stadium before they do their job while commending the other for doing it at tax payers expense in a football stadium.
Dave . What I said in my first comment was if players have a right to protest by kneeling etc then pence has a right to walk out …. To which he has. Works both ways… Take it you have nothing on protests by these NFL players away from the national anthem and stadiums… No organised protests they have been doing???
No protesting outside police stations?? Nothing zilch…
Bunch of snowflakes, triggered by some black athletes kneeling.
@LITTLEONE: why didn’t Pence hold a protest away from the game in his living room where he would not have been representing the people of America so he could save his employers money? Instead of walking out on a protest for the rights of 13% of the people he works for.
@LITTLEONE: Do you honor our military too, when you stand and since when were they running the Country?
@Dave O Keeffe: who knows maybe he thought they might stand yesterday and show respect to the police who saved countless lives last week in Vegas and then he wouldn’t have walked out but enjoyed the game…
Fact is if these players truly believed in their protest and what it stands for then they would have been doing organised protests all this time in the cities they play in and getting the support of the people instead of a stunt on football day where they then do nothing from one week to the next except go home to their million dollar homes .. why are they or why haven’t they been doing something all this time???? What’s this kneeling achieving … Nothing but tensions… Do protests away from the national anthem and the game and get people to support them and then it would have traction. Let NFL owners organise big protests and highlight exactly what these players want and get people behind them.. like I said I personally don’t think the national anthem or sports is the place for it…. Many sports stars world over believe and support many things and they show their support not by protesting the national anthem by kneeling, sitting etc and don’t bring it on the sports day…
@LITTLEONE: you’re still failing to in anyway address my point. Everything you’re saying is a negative on one side is exactly the same as what Pence did except he got the tax payers to fund his one. He told the press to wait outside for him before the game so to claim he thought the protest wouldn’t happen is bull. Also, are you telling me that the players do nothing to improve the lives of those less fortunate than them in their time off? They do plenty of work between games and training for charities that they believe in. Kneeling brings attention to an issue. You know what a smart politician would do? Meet with the players, have a conversation, open a dialogue instead of insulting them for pointing out what they see as an injustice.
Dave… Let me ask you…. Then why didn’t they do anything before trump became president? They had the perfect opportunity when Obama was president…..they did nothing…. Where was the media then?? Silent…. Where was the owners all this time??? Nowhere… … What did they do just like you are doing above…. Turning it into a trump bashing… Putting it on them… These players and owners should have taken a stand back what now was it 18 months give or take to highlight what the problems they had… They didn’t…they wait till trump says something on Twitter before they suddenly decide the want to make a point… That says more about them than trump or pence to be honest… It shows that it’s about getting one up on trump by joining the cause… How many were doing it before trump tweeted? Very low number… I am sure many players do charity work behind the scenes… My point was why not do anything jointly with the NFL and organise a large protest months ago if it was truly what they believed… Why wait for a tweet … Which is what happened.. before they suddenly decide to protest…. Surely they either where for the protest when it first happened or they just want to get one up on the president…. because they waited till he tweeted…. Again my point is certainly protest , get as much people behind you, certainly Kay out the issues but not in the football stadiums while national anthem is playing…. Love to know why people are shouting me down over that and why they don’t find it strange none of these people protesting now did so before the tweeting apart from a few….
@LITTLEONE: here you are again as a Trump surrogate.. you know theres an old saying that says smart people change their mind from time to time fools never do.. you made a wrong call by backing trump and now are getting further into the mud as you try defend them on every occasion. They are an embarassment to the human race.. you’re just a fool.
The players don’t spend thousands and thousands of tax payers money to go to the field. Pence was flown in, had security detail etc which cost a fortune. All to walk out. And done deliberately.
@LITTLEONE:
Whatever about whether he (VP) has the right to protest against the players (he does of course), why can’t he be honest and admit that this is what he intended to do and that his attendance was pre-meditated and orchestrated in order to make such a protest.
Then he could honestly deal with the questions about whether he should be spending hundreds of thousands of tax dollars on his protest.
@LITTLEONE: First Amendment: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” They are perfectly within their rights no matter their reason or timing. Pence on the other hand has some ‘splainin to do. Who’s shouting? Didn’t Pence also use the national anthem towards his own ends yesterday? You’ve still failed to address the tax payer issue. He could have done all of this from home, or from any press conference and got the same amount of attention while not costing his employers
Ah Dave. Your fine one for talking about not addressing the issue when you have ignored constant times now the issue of why NFL players and owners did nothing while Obama was president..??? Did nothing for last 18 months…do nothing about protesting this issue except now they do , because trump tweeted . on football day and that’s it…ignored and will not answer.. so in in regards to pence and taxpayers money then If true what media are reporting , then he has some explaining to do and sure it will all come out in the wash.. I find it quite something that you and others before you are actually inclined to turn these protests into a trump, pence thing which takes away from the actual reason for the protests thereby giving trump exactly what he wants … And giving the protests exactly nothing…
But carry on .. make it about trump etc because that’s really not addressing the issue of the protests…
Dave apparently him going to the game yesterday was on the schedule for weeks and wasn’t a spur of the moment jaunt as people are suggesting.
the Indianapolis trip was planned for weeks because former Colts quarterback Peyton Manning was being honored at the game; the Las Vegas leg, however, was put on the schedule in recent days, adding to the total expenditures. As for the trip to LA … Notice no one is mentioning above because it was a RNC event then that part of the trip does be reimbursed….
“The Vice President was not going to miss the Las Vegas memorial prayer walk on Saturday, which he was honored to attend on behalf of President Trump,” another aide said in a statement to CNN. “If the Vice President did not go to Indiana for the Colts game, he would have flown back to D.C. for the evening — which means flying directly over Indiana. Instead, he made a shorter trip to Indiana for a game that was on his schedule for several weeks.”
@LITTLEONE: “Then why didn’t they do anything before trump became president?”
Kaepernick started the protest when Obama was President.
This is nothing whatsoever to do with Trump.
Until, of course, HE made it about himself.
He is a pathetic loser and your defence of him is unbelievable.
@LITTLEONE:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._national_anthem_protests_(2016%E2%80%93present)
Kaepernick started the protest August 2016, five months before the election.
@Brinster: are you really that ridiculous…. I know exactly when the protest started by kapernick…. Problem is seems it bypassed most of the NFL and players and owners until trump tweeted… Seems your missing that point… Only a handful were doing it up to few weeks ago… That’s how much they supported it… It’s only since trump tweeted that many players and owners are doing it… That suggests they are doing in defiance against trump and not in support of those that were doing before he tweeted… So if you want to say trump made it about himself ,. You can thank owners and players for giving him a helping hand.
@LITTLEONE: bull. Why then did he fly back over Vegas and on to LA after leaving the game? Just quit. There’s no way his schedule if he skipped the game was to fly 2,000 east to then fly 2,300 west in the one day. If his intention was to be at home in DC if not at the game why didn’t he go home to DC when he wasn’t at the game? My answer to your question about why they don’t protest outside police stations is simple. They can protest wherever they want once it’s peaceful and doesn’t endanger anyone. That’s what they’re doing. Also, outside a police station they might get in the way of police doing their work. Would you prefer that?
@Dave O Keeffe: why because CNN said so Dave… That’s where your information is coming from… Pretty easy to check what his schedule was…he was scheduled to go to the game in Indiana weeks ago…. Because of Peyton Manning …last Vegas was added to schedule….. So now your using excuse that they might get in the way if they protest at a police station… Ok so what public parks etc… plenty of places they could have organised protests for the last 18 months if they desired…. They didn’t neither players or the NFL or owners …. They did nothing ….. In fact Dave isn’t it true only a very small number were protesting before trump tweeted…. The number went up after he tweeted… So why didn’t the number go up weeks , months ago and not just because trump tweeted… So it’s fair to say him tweeting increased the number so it seems more are interested in kneeling in defiance of trump than in support of those kneeling before he tweeted because of the sudden change.
@Dave O Keeffe: They might get shot there..
@Dermot Lane: he goes there every 2nd week … publicity stunt is been pulled by those who respect that great flag
@cormac o neill: so why hasn’t he been annoyed enough to leave previously? The protest has been going on for over a year. Suddenly now it annoys him?
@LITTLEONE: Trump’s tweet was a breech of the first amendment rights of those that kneel. That is why it got more people to protest. I don’t think you understand how pointless your argument is. You’re saying they have rights, but they should exercise them when less people are watching. You understand how awareness works right? Also, on Pence’s schedule, read what I posted again. Vegas to Indiana to LA in 24 hours. He was always going to LA. It’s an RNC event. There’s absolutely no point in telling you these facts though. You have your “alternative” sources and logic won’t beat you.
@Dave O Keeffe: compared to your CNN sources…. Ah Dave really.. come to realize what’s the point with you… At least you finally admitted they are only protesting in droves now because of trump’s tweet…. What’s that say?
They couldn’t be bothered to protest in support of those that were kneeling for last 18 months but because trump tweeted and upset them they decided to kneel…
@LITTLEONE: you know the best way to end the protest? Meet with them, talk through what they see as injustices. That’s what real leaders do rather actively seeking to get people fired for using their constitutional rights.
@LITTLEONE: it says the president tried to repress people’s rights and others came out in support of those rights. You know what it really tells me? America is still America. People will still stand up against any power that threatens their rights.
He did the right thing
@Paul: He did in his a***. He’s a complete snowflake that can’t handle any kind of criticism; just like his idiot boss.
@Paul: I wonder how much his visit cost the tax payer ? The chances were it was going to happen and all he did was waste time and money.
@Ben Dawkins: 500,000 was the estimate I heard. When you include flights, security and everything.
@Ben Dawkins: went 4,000 miles out of his way to not see a football game because Trump told him to. All before going to a fund raiser in LA. Vegas to LA is about 300 miles. Vegas to Indiana is 1,800 in the opposite direction. At least he’s getting good use out of Air Force Two.
@Paul: you mean the far right thing. By walking out, he’s protesting a mark of protest against racism.
@Paul: Patriotism the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Sportsmen and women should leave politics to politicians regardless of their feelings about them. Disrespecting one’s national flag is disgusting. I’m with Trump and Pence on this one.
Best if NFL drop the playing of the anthem….Play another tune perhaps….The same as we play Ireland’s call rather than Irish National.Anthem at some Rugby games…..
@John Campbell: *anthem
@John003: they play Amhrán na bhFiann too if they’re in the Aviva
@John003: Why not just get rid of the flag while you’re at it and ask Disney to come up with a new tune like Ireland’s call? The flag and anthem are there for a reason and that is to set up the identity of the nation. If you don’t like it then don’t play under them. Ireland’s call makes us look like a laughing stock to the rest of the world outside the microcosm of rugger buggers with a Ross O’Carroll Kelly mentality.
@Karen Wellington: thanks for clarification. National flag and Anthem are essentially two peas in a pod for national identity.
@John Campbell: the military pays for the anthem to be played. It’s sponsored and the playing of the anthem at every game is a fairly recent development.
@John Campbell:
Maybe Trump should leave politics to the politicians too
@John Campbell: When they have a forced moment of worship for the countries military introduced in their sport I don’t think you can participate in the sport without being complicit to a political angle. I would agree if they dropped the anthem but for as long as a moment of patriotism to the country’s governance and society is required as part of the sport then it’s absolutely fine for a player to treat that moment however they wish.
@John Campbell: and that makes you a compete and utter douche
@John Campbell: So they are to not be political? Then don’t play a national anthem before a domestic game, or have military “Guard of Honour” or military flyovers etc
@John Campbell: then it may be best for the NFL, Trump and Pence to leave the flag alone alltogether, a quick review of the Federal codes governing the flag in the US shows that both Trump and Pence have abused it previously for their own political advantage – standards should be for all not just the sports people they disagree with.
@John Campbell: playing the anthem at a sporting event should be banned? Is the logical conclusion of what you are saying?
@John Campbell:
I’m English – I REFUSE to stand for the British National Anthem – for political reasons and because of what the Union flag represents!
Should we all be docile sheep who ignore our countries crimes and passionately wrap our nation’s flag around us no matter what it stands for??
I have to laugh at the hysterical rantings of the liberal left on this one. They scream and shout that NFL players have a right to protest under the First Amendment but then get their knickers in a knot because Pence walks out in protest at the players disrespect for the flag and anthem. Apparently only the liberal left are allowed to protest but no-one else is. The right are the only ones using violence while the antifa thugs are a picture of peace and harmony. The left have a right to demonstrate and speak out but the right are not allowed to do so in direct violation of their constitutional rights.
If ever there was a deluded, schizophrenic, constitutional violating movement it’s the dog hugging, bubble blowing snowflakes of the liberal left.
@Brian Ward: lol snowflakes! Good generalising there my angry friend.
@Brian Ward:
Players kneeling doesn’t cost anyone anything.
VPs flying thousands of miles to stage a publicity stunt is a colossal waste of time and money. By people who should know better.
If you can’t see the difference between the two, I don’t think you can accuse anyone of being deluded.
@Brian Ward:
Why do all the trolls on here have a fake name, fake picture, and their FB account has no friends and all their photos are just memes? You’re so unoriginal. Why not put your real name behind your opinions?
And to add to the unoriginality, they all go around saying “snowflake”?
@Brian Ward: who is the second most powerful person in America protesting to? You know what protest is? It’s people that are not in power appealing to those that are to change something. He was well within his rights to leave but what is wasteful is flying 4,000 miles to go to a game, telling press to wait outside because something was going to happen and then leaving when the you saw the thing you claim you didn’t want to see. How many were on the plane with him? That’s a nice bill for the taxpayer. Could have sent a tweet from home saying he wasn’t going because of the protests. That would have been free and would have allowed him to do some work.
@Brian Ward: there is no first amendment right to protest when you’re at work. The players employers allow them to disrespect the flag and anthem whilst on the clock.
@Tristan Rowntree: are they not doing their jobs?
@Brian Ward: How exactly is kneeling at the national anthem a sign of disrespect? I guess everyone who observes the custom to kneel for prayer in certain churches is disrespectful to god, or anyone getting knighted and kneeling is disrespectful to the monarch doing the knighting, you alt-right bro flakes have no problem when the US flag is used as a piece of clothing, but as soon as someone kneels to highlight an issue that you disagree with you huff and puff and go into collective apoplexy
@Ryan Boyle: This is my real name and my Facebook settings are on private. I have been commenting on here for 6 years and I have never used any other account to comment unlike others who his behind fake identities. If you want to show the world your Facebook page that’s your business, I prefer my privacy.
As for trolling you obviously haven’t been commenting on here long otherwise you would know that I don’ troll rather I state my opinion and will back it up with reasoned argument and citations even if it is unpopular. If you can’t handle my comments either block me or go to your safe space if it all gets too much for you.
@Tristan Rowntree: “there is no first amendment right to protest when you’re at work”
What utter tripe as usual.
The right to protest does not state “to be used during leisure time only”. You either have a right to protest or you don’t. Plus the game hadn’t actually started.
The Alt right trolls are really dumb sometimes.
@Brinster: How is it a publicity stunt? If the players had shown respect to the flag and anthem by standing to attention then no doubt Pence would quite happily have stayed for the game. If it was a publicity stunt then isn’t he doing EXACTLY what the NFL players are doing which goes back to the point I made earlier. Why is it that the liberal left think that they are the only ones who are allowed to protest and no-one else is? It kinda makes a mockery of identifying as being liberal doesn’t it?
@White Rabbit: If I am so angry then why am I laughing at the poor liberals that Pence has upstaged? Maybe I should take a leaf out of the liberal playbook, go to my safe space, hug my dog and maybe get out a coloring book until I can achieve an inner peace and mindfulness.
@Brian Ward: “How is it a publicity stunt? ”
He knew a protest would happen (it has happened every week for months).
He told the press pool to remain outside as he wouldn’t be staying long.
The VP leaving a game in protest creates publicity.
Ergo – it was a publicity stunt.
@Larissa Caroline Nikolaus: I’m alt-right now am I LOL! Maybe you should tell that to the commentators on here that constantly accuse me of being a left wing Sinn Fein supporter! As for your examples of kneeling in church and being knighted they make no sense. They are the accepted stances taken out of respect in those situations. If you were the only one to sit when everyone else was kneeling in prayer would it not stand out and encourage criticism? If you were getting knighted and you sat or stood what would that be seen as?
@Brian Ward: Why are you using the word “snowflake” just because everyone else is using it lately? You never used to use that word until the cool kids started using it – just be yourself, Brian. No need to copy other people just to be accepted.
@Brian Ward: But Brian where does that leave me? I’m sure there are many more like me who are neither liberal left or alt right or whatever boxes people are being pushed into these days. I think the players have a right to protest but I also think Pence has the same right. I’m not a Trump (or Pence) fan, but I accept he is the democratically elected president. The division is getting wider. It is easy to see, for instance, who is a republican or democrat supporter reading the comments but I don’t fall into either camp. I can see when Trump does something right but also when he messes up. How can people defend some things that they just know are wrong because they back one side or other? It ruins decent argument because everything descends into name calling and insults.
@Brinster: The Colts players stood with linked arms during the anthem and wore shirts with the words “We will stand for equality, justice, unity, respect, dialogue, opportunity” written on it. Pence was there because he is a life long colts fan and was there to honor the retirement of Peyton Mannings number retirement. 23 49′ers players chose to take a knee during the anthem to stage their protest rather than stand in a dignified manner while still making their point like the Colts did.
Notice that Pence had no problem with the Colts behavior because it was dignified whereas the 49′ers were disrespectful. If the 49′ers had followed the Colts example there would have been no problem but they obviously think that they are better than everyone else. If they have a problem with police brutality then why aren’t they outside their local police station protesting there instead? People go to a game to watch football not to seeing a political protest.
@Brian Ward: I can support and admire the US police while also acknowledging that some individuals have been terribly racist and see it is a problem.
@Ryan Boyle: Jesus you’re a gas man! One moment you accuse me of using a fake name and fake account and now you are telling me to be myself! Then you say “You never used to use that word until the cool kids started using it” so are you stalking me now and keeping a watch of the language that I use. If so you would have known that my account is real and that your earlier post is meaningless.
If you don’t like the term snowflake (does it hit a chord?) would you prefer the term Japanese term “strawberry” (soft and bruises easily) instead? Of course that is copying the Japanese so maybe you could set up a focus group and find a new term but then that would be copying others as well and that wouldn’t do in your mind. It is going to be a bit hard coming up with a new term to replace snowflake every time that I post a comment though.
@Brian Ward:
“One moment you accuse me of using a fake name and fake account and now you are telling me to be myself!”
That’s the same thing. Both of them mean “be yourself”. Stop being fake.
@Brian Ward: Wasting your time on the majority on here man, they are morons. Great posts tho you’re bang on!
@Ryan Boyle: “Stop being fake”? What ‘s wrong Ryan, don’t like being shown up for accusing me of having a fake profile? The next time that you go around accusing others of using a fake profile you might want to look up as to how Facebook works first that way you won’t look so foolish.
@Brian Ward: “Pence was there because he is a life long colts fan”
Rubbish. He hadn’t attended a game in 3 years.
Trump tweeted he told him to go and also told him to leave if there was a protest.
This is all on the record. Direct from Trump.
Why do you feel the need to just make stuff up?
@Brinster: has anybody figured out why he tweeted a pic of himself at a game three years ago to say he was at the game, while he was at the game yesterday? Perhaps he wasn’t in control of his own account and couldn’t get a new pic. Hmmm.
@Dave O Keeffe: I thought his tweet yesterday was “looking forward” to the game, in which case using an old pic of last one you were at wold seem fine. Not sure there’s much to that tbh.
@Brinster: it was an hour and a half before his press release after leaving.
@Brian Ward: As a staunch defender of SF and the IRA,why do you not stand with a minority that according to a US Justice Department Investigation, are targeted by the cops and killed. It’s called racism.Have you ever read that report ? I have.And,it’s disgusting.
At the risk of being savaged on this section. What is the big deal if you stand kneel or sit? It’s a flag, does it have magical powers? If I don’t salute it every time I pass it will the whole world get sucked into a black hole? I
@Ciaran Peavoy: The sky will fall down, cats and dogs will become best buddies, and Trump will have a twitter meltdown, two out of these three statements won’t happen, but the last will
@Ciaran Peavoy: Republicans in America are very precious about such things. They’re brainwashed into patriotism to a point where many of them even place the flag on their front lawns and schools force children into reciting a pledge of allegiance each morning.
If I took a knee for some cause every time I went to work I don’t think my boss would be too happy
@Robert T Pooner: eh they didn’t kneel for the match just a few minutes.
@Robert T Pooner: and it didn’t have any impact on their job performance.
@Deborah Behan: I never said they did
@Dave O Keeffe: I never said it did
@Robert T Pooner: If your boss walked in every morning and demanded a minutes applause for Leo Varadkar would you happily comply? He is our democratic leader after all so you must be respectful when those opportunities are forced upon you, right?
@Rochelle: False analogy and you well know it dear.
@Robert T Pooner: the boss doesn’t care once you do your job. They also can’t punish you for it if it’s not negatively impacting your work
@Dave O Keeffe: Seems to me that a lot of people do not agree with their sentiment. Seems to me that could have a direct impact on the revenue they generate. It might not impact their performance but it’s perfectly possible it’ll impact ticket sales and merchandise. Maybe I’m wrong, would you tell me if I’m coming on too strong?
@Robert T Pooner: ticket sales etc is not their job description. They play football.
My issue here is that Pence did” what he was told”, surely a man of his stature would have done what he believed in and not what he was told to do by Trump. Stand strong in what u believe
@colm mcmenamin: well said macker.
These players are making millions of dollars a year playing NFL it’s part of the American dream and there disrespecting their country’s flag they should be ashamed of themselves, if that was an Irish player doing the same tonight there would be murder.America has a lot of problems and Trump been blamed for it all he didn’t cause half of them
@high ho silver: A flag or an anthem does not define a nation. A country is defined by its people.
@Mary Mc Carthy: So a country like Ireland who where slaves under the English who fought long and hard so we could fly our own flag your telling me that flag means nothing people like you are fools wake up please
@high ho silver: take your money and shut the f*** up, in other words.
@high ho silver: where did she say the flag means nothing? It is a symbol of mother nation and the ideals of those that declared it but it is not the definition of the nation.
An bhfuil Pence ag an cluiche ? Níl Sé
@Itsme: Pence was right to protest. Maith an fear.
@Tom Newnewman: and his team beat the liberals from SF …. hope he got a match program
@Tom Newnewman: was he right to get his employers to pay for it?
An organised political stunt. Told reporters to wait outside so that he’d brief them after he left stadium in protest.
we must all bow to the flag… USA is a dictatorship
@Shane Hickey: there is a touch of north Korea about it alright.
Sort of reminds me when ted and dougal were sent to the passion of st tibulus by bishop brennan. All just to make a scene.
I don’t believe they kneeled. I think they actually knelt.
@liam whelan: Because it is ideology based with dogmatic rituals. If you want to stand at attention and get warm fuzzy feelings standing in front of a flag or an altar be my guest buddy. Just dont expect others to feel the same. Let alone attack them or force them to partake in same. (Same goes other way around of.course) Do your statist or religious worshipping in your own time and space.
@Wodanaz von Mises: religion brought into your missive without relevance. If you don’t stand for a national anthem then be it on your head. This is a protest that’s all
@Paul Coughlan: Again, like religion it is ideology driven dogma rituals. Your post made that abundantly clear. Comply with the ‘holy’ rituals or else. (Then it be on your head, then you will burn in hellfire, then you are going to a gulag) Keep your (perverted) religious dogmas and rituals to yourself. Worship to God, Allah, Kali, democracy, communism, flags and anthems in your own space and time and don’t force them on others or expect others to partake in your little ceremonies.
Second lady
This distraction bs still ongoing?
Wow.
Muh magic song, muh holy nylon rectangle…
Practise your statist radical religion behind closed doors in the privacy of your own home and stop forcing your religious rituals on others.
@Wodanaz von Mises: How is standing for a national anthem a “religious ritual”?
@liam whelan: How is kneeling a sign of disrespect?
@liam whelan: the Pledge of Allegiance sure does sound religiony
@Dave O Keeffe: lol Dave. Is religiony a word? It is now if it wasn’t before I suppose. I’m gonna use it.
@Mick Murphy: I couldn’t think of a more concise way to say like a religious ritual. Sometimes simplicity is best.
@Dave O Keeffe: If an American president can make up words, we all can.
@Ne: a quick Google will tell you it’s been in use for a while. I can’t claim any credit for it unfortunately
Glad to see that Mike Pence bent the knee to his President’s wishes
@John: did he kiss his ass also
We are all so sick of your s#!t America!
How sad is it that a few people get to decide the meaning of a protest and not the people that are protesting? This has nothing to do with disrespecting the flag and everyone except for really stupid people knows that.
Confirmed: Mike Pence diverted from his west coast swing just to attend the game in Indianapolis, which his staffer admitted in advance he was planning to walk out of all along. Now Trump admits he told Pence to do it. These guys are two d*cks with no balls.
The whole fetish with the flag and anthem thing in America is really creepy.
Pence is a creepy individual who seems to be the only person in government who see’s no wrong in that lunatic Trump, Pence is clearly not aware Trump can not fire him, time to grow a set of balls.
@Joseph Dempsey: Trump can’t fire him.
It’s the strongest weapon Pence has but he’s waiting in the long grass to take the reigns
The disrespect is aimed at Trump, nothing to do with the flag or the national anthem
Ah, now america is a dictatorship !!
The players kneeling was a PR stunt..
@Carnac: eh, no. It’s called protest. Real power would meet with them and ask what they think should be done. That’s the quickest way to make these protests stop
Such a scandal
This is totally a PR stunt. It’s now well documented that Pence went there planning to leave quickly – pool reporters were told to stay in van outside stadium as Pence wasn’t staying long. This is just a diversion from the real issues; Pence and the Trumpistas are being played by #FrumpyTrumpy. And there are, as usual, a lot of fools buying his crap.
thanks for this aricle
the old humain on the earth was finded on Morocco
http://www.monkeymag.tk/2017/11/the-old-humain-on-earth-was-finded-on.html
These players can kneel all they want after the consumers stop buying the products of sponsors the NFL dollar losses will mount. Their television viewership has already fallen.
Many of these athletes are brain-damaged and criminals anyway. The NFL has serious problems within the organization that they have not addressed. This has been a problem for decades. O.J. Simpson is a good example.
Maybe when the money is gone they’ll be kneeling to ask the fans to return to the stadiums and television screens.
have your say