Hey Andrew, who did their kids procreate with? I already know the answer and if you truly believe that… that’s pretty sick!

I think neave is eve’s first cousin. She makes great Apple pies

That’s a great counter argument you have there Andrew, really insightful.

So by that logic, incest must be ok with you because how else did their children populate the world.
(I actually feel dumber after replying to this).

Andrew your about 3 years too late with the tiger woods joke

Presumably because it requires yet another tweak to the Constitution. Personally I don’t care one way or the other

If it’s done by legislation, it’ll be challenged as unconstitutional. The High Court ruled in 2006 that ‘the ethos of the document (Bunreacht na hÉireann) would infer that the meaning of marriage as written is specific to the marriage of a man and a woman (given the earlier references to Catholic sentiment and the outlay referencing God in a Catholic manner)’*. If a supreme court were to rule the same way, the bill would be struck down.

Doing it by referendum can make it inherently constitutional, and unchangeable.

(Directly quoted from this thread on politics.ie: http://www.politics.ie/forum/current-affairs/192598-gay-marriage-already-legal-under-irish-constitution.html#post5557116)

@James. Don’t bother mate. Trolls thrive on this type of thread

It’s the logical next step. Do we have the right to discriminate against a man who wants to marry his sister or a daughter who’s in love with her father? You and I might not like it but then there’s no shortage of people who would feel the same way about same-sex marriage

@Matt, the high court has held that the constitution defined marriage as being between a man and a woman. If the supreme court agrees with that decision, then legalizing it through legislation is impossible, it would simply be struck down as soon as it reached them. Having a referendum, especially considering that the public generally seems to support it, is by far the fastest and most straight forward way of getting it legalized. England don’t have the same restrictions as us because they don’t have a written constitution.

Actually the fastest way would be legislation. The High Court refused to establish a RIGHT for same-sex couples to marry. The lack of a right is not the same as a prohibition.

There’s nothing in the constitution that would forbid lowering the marriageable age to 12, but that doesn’t mean a 12-year-old who filed suit to be allowed marry would win.

There’s no way the courts would find a gay marriage law constitutional without an amendment.

Why? Where does it define marriage?

@ John
It’s natural to them, why can’t you understand that?
And it won’t always be Catholic Ireland, we’re becoming more secular by the day.

not natural says who?

HAHA, hate is destructive. What’s destructive is having a platform for uneducated idiots to spout from. It’s hilarious that you apply the hate label to gay people. While the people who are denying them their basic human right of equality under the law are “having difficulties receiving these changes”!! Some man. Do yourself a favour, shhh.

You could equally argue that traditional marriage viewed women as being the property of their husbands.

Catholic Ireland? Surely it’s more “un-natural” to not have any sex at all a la clergy?

I’m not homophobic but….

Shane I have to be crude to be clear – A penis releases sperm for the purpose of fertilising an egg. During gay love making, this happens, but no egg to be found. Something is not right?

“What’s destructive is having a platform for uneducated idiots to spout from.”
Well then, sign out and spare us your childish drivel.

What century are you living in? Is it the same one where women must give up their job when they get married. EVERYONE should be allowed to get married to whomever they want. It’s no one persons right to judge or infer their opinion. Get real. Homosexuals have the right to choose what thy want. You say that “it’s not natural”. Would you rather them to act straight when it wouldn’t feel natural to them???

@El_Poderoso
One of the many versions of the ten commandments explicitly said that woman was the property of man.
Brought that up with the girlfriend…….my eye is healing quite nicely now, the bandages will be taken off any day.

Jess, I cant talk to you. There is no talking to you.

Awh. And I felt like having the chats!!!

And what about having sex with your wife after she has gone through the menopause??… Because, by your thinking, then that is also unnatural… Doesn’t quite make sense to me mate!! Maybe you should have thought through your ridiculous argument before posting it for everyone to read!

Well said

John, please don’t try and discuss what is ‘natural’ when you clearly have no concept of the subject. Homosexual behaviour is quite common in almost every other species. If you believe otherwise, I would suggest you do some research.

I would also recommend looking up definitions for both ‘bigotry’ and ‘hypocritical’.

Its more natural then whatever device you typed your comment on! Or the clothes the you’re wearing, or most other things you could probably think of!

I’m going to disagree with Matt. I think it should go to a vote.

We’ve had a definition of marriage that has stood for thousands of years, and there are still a lot of people who are bought into it. Even 20 years ago, there were very few people who advocated same-sex marriage, and they were generally regarded as fringe lunatics. Lots of people have changed their minds, which is great. Some of the remainder one day will, and there are some who never will.

Introducing same-sex marriage by popular vote gives it a legitimacy that most sensible people will accept. Not many people like the current government, but no one serious argues that it’s *illegitimate*. We buy into the process as a condition of living in a civilised society, and part of the price of that is having to go along with decisions on which we’re outvoted.

If it’s done by legislation, there will be divisive constitutional cases which take years to resolve. Even if the SC finally rules in its favour, it will be regarded by some people as a conspiracy by the elite to undermine traditional marriage. Look at the US, where the issue has basically been decided by one guy (Justice Kennedy). They’ll still be arguing about that in 30 years.

A referendum is the best course.

So in that case ur saying that masturbation is not natural??

@John you say being Gay is not natural and it’s a fact, can you provide proof and evidence about that?

Adam and Neave, or Eve or whatever, is also a fictional account, I understand(take some time to process that)

Hard luck Andrew… Imagine the effort you’ve gone through just to write what you may deem a “controversial” comment on this thread in the hope of getting red thumbs… How embarrassing…

They are there to procreate, however I really hope you don’t. Feel sorry for the crap you’d fill your child’s mind with. By your word, if a woman, for whatever reason, can’t have children, then she is redundant is she? I suppose you’ve never masterbated in your life either considering your hand has no womb to carry a child?? And one day when your partner can no longer have children, I’m sure you two wont have sex then. I suppose you or your partner don’t use any birth control because that’s most certainly not natural. You’re an idiot. You make a terrible argument and an even worse human being if you think it is right to deprive somebody of what you yourself consider your given right. And that is to marry whoever you want. I don’t care if you’re gay, straight, black, white, yellow, green, whatever, you deserve the same basic rights as I have. Good luck with your life, as it is destined to be surrounded by a sea of ignorance.

I have nearly 500 red thumbs. The holy grail for trolls . So whats your point agiain.

“Genesis had Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve”

Actually Genesis had Phil Collins, Mike Rutherford and Tony Banks.

Do you wrestle with your partner naked in front of kids do you? Coz I’m pretty sure if you think that’s what is normal it is you that is ruining their lives. You’re ignorant to what goes on in a same sex relationship pal. It’s not all that different from same sex relationships. Your comments come across to childish and I am actually convinced you may be the most stupid man in Ireland. Well done, your kids will be proud of that;)

Those things are for reproduction, I don’t think any of my emotions or feelings (except maybe feeling horny? Not sure bout that) come from my testicles!

ah I see now – you’re part of the sex is for procreation only crowd and that is why homosexuality is not natural. I see where you’re coming from; I mean straight couples only have sex to have children and for no other reasons and there are no gay animals……just ignore all those bonobos

Thats brill.

Actually embarrassed for you Eddie. Yeno what they say, don’t knock it till you’ve tried it. Sure give it a lash yourself then come back and have an opinion. And keep dreaming about that sea of what you’re wishing for, doubt there’s many wanting it to be honest.

Was that the angels first name very informative

“A penis releases sperm for the purpose of fertilising an egg”

So it appears that John Stone only ever has sex when he wants to have a child. Has the man nerver had sex for pleasure?

100% against and will do all in my power to make sure it never happens.

Can you tell us why Martin?

I would legislate so as not to discriminate tax liability for those siblings who share a family home but who must pay inheritance tax when the person with whom they have shared a home for the majority of their lives is deceased.

Just look it up. I’m not saying johns right in everything he said but in fairness it is a fact and if you have the time to comment then I’m sure you have the time to look it up and watch one or two of the documentaries on the matter.

It’s only fair to know both side or at least listen to both sides before making a decision on the matter.

Eddie,
Exactly. You don’t just wake up one morning being gay. It just comes NATURALLY. For gay or straight people. Thanks so much for agreeing my point. Also, ill let you know about that offer if all decent men have fallen off the face of the earth and I’ve had a lobotomy. More chance if that than there is of gay marriage not being brought in eventually so the odds are in your favour! :/

@Dean, what facts of Johns are right?

More people are against it then for it. What’s your problem? With two people getting married. The government should just legalise it now I’m really starting to be embarrassed by Ireland.

Why are you so against!

Totally agree with you Emily. We live in a democracy so that means the will of the majority should prevail. And sometimes through the majorities voice , others can see the reason in it. I hope all my LGB friends can marry who they want, and have the exact same rights in that marriage as myself and my husband.

Gay love is natural 100%

No talking to you either.

So you support a law banning a fertile man marrying an infertile woman?

Hopefully you as 1 person won’t have that much power then.

Can’t be consensual as a dog can’t give consent, just another one of the same lame old lines used in Anti equal rights camp

Sorry for skipping comments but its 7:07pm and 48% have voted no to this idea!!! What a bunch of narrow minded ignorant crowd you are! Everyone deserves to be happy, no matter gay or straight!!!

Yeah and marriage is all about sex? Wtf

Wow John your knowledge of human reproduction systems is amazing, you must have had an A in Biology.

“Who wants two fathers?”

Ask an orphan, or the child of two strung out junkies. I’m sure they would answer that one for you.

John as a woman can only get pregnant when there is an egg present which is only a few days every cycle then the argument you put forward suggests women should only have sex to get pregnant. Are these your views? The vast majority of the human race enjoy sex for pleasure, regardless of sexual orientation. If 2 people love each other and want to publicly declare their commitment to each other we should celebrate that.

@Ailbhe Hackett – Ailbhe, you said ‘We live in a democracy so that means the will of the majority should prevail.’

I would add the proviso that the will of the majority MUST NOT override the civil and human rights of the minority.

The ‘will of the majority’ is what brought about the recent law cases in the US after a small majority of Californians in 2008 vote to TAKE AWAY the right of same-sex couples to be married in that state. This law was struck down in a Federal Court by Judge Vaughn Walker who found that there was no legitimate reason for same-sex couples to be denied the right to marry, and that the case proposed by the anti-gay side was purely supported by an animus against gay people with the sole purpose of demeaning them.

That is ALL that the Iona Institute and Youth Defense and the other negative commentators have to support THEIR animus – it’s the EWWW factor!

Emily, very well put as always (can we change the law so I can marry elephants?!). I agree it’s not a case of asking everyone’s permission as such but since marriage is a social matter then all of ‘society’ has to get a say in what it means, so just our so-called leaders and self appointed moral guardians. If the debate is intelligent, sensitive and honest I have no doubt a referendum will pass.

“A penis releases sperm for the purposes of fertilising an egg” Does that mean that nocturnal emission in men is “unnatural”?

That’s the way nature made it happen, or do you have a problem with nature???

A number of friends of mine were married in recent years. One couple won’t mind me saying both he and his good lady wife are of an age where they won’t be able to have children. It just isn’t an issue for them.
My other friend, who got married a couple of years ago, simply cannot have children due to an illness. According to those with bigoted and/or religious views both of these couples are doing something wrong as they are not procreating, so their marriage is somehow lacking. It couldn’t be a full marriage. Perhaps their marriage should be reduced to the status of a “civil partnership?”
What a load of nonsense.
If two people love one another, if its not hurting anyone, why should they not be allowed to get married and have the same chance at happiness or misery as everyone else? If this offends someone, get a bloody life, or a wife or a husband or a cat or a dog, or better yet mind your own damn business.

Thank you

So straight couples who can’t physically reproduce for whatever reason shouldn’t have sex?

Lorraine, silly lady. You know my point is valid. Please stop digging.

Padraig, sex is an essential part of marriage yes.

Yes John I do it all the time. And I cover up when I do so that she don’t get pregnant as there is a chance of that happening at any point biologically. I could try the other door but, that’s unnatural

Yes

No Helen, masturbation is not natural. I do it but its not natural. Silly billy

Jess, your talking sense!! Put him in his box.

@john this sperm you’ve been dwelling on is only the physical characteristics of a gay relationship… There is the emotional characteristics such as love.. And let’s face we all know love is natural…

Here mr.burger don’t have me put you in your box. Are you even Irish? If your not font come here voicing your clearly unwanted opinion while this has frankly nothing to do with you. This is only in regards to the fact that you may not be Irish but i could put you in your box many others. So what if a kid has to loving fathers?? So f***ing what… At least that child will be open minded and respectful to a wide variety of cultures and lifestyles.. Clearly something you can’t provide.

John, Stone, people make love for many more reasons than reproduction. Assuming that is the only purpose for sex is the mistake.

With your logic, it would stand to reason that a man and a woman should also not be allowed marry if either of them were not able to conceive children for whatever reason.
Sorry to break it to you. but marriage isn’t always about sex and/or procreation. Have you considered companionship?

John stone, can you answer how is it unnatural and have you any proof of it?
You seen to not like unnatural things so what are your thoughts on giving people the right to own a car or go on the internet or have internet privacy?

No Oliver,it is not 100% natural because if it was,gay people would not have the capability of procreating.

Adam and Eve were thrown out of the Garden because of a computer incompatibility: She had an Apple, he had a Wang.

Down with this sort of thing

On a point of fact, since you require the co-operation of lots of other people in order to get married, it is very much other people’s business.

As I said, Ruaidhrí, it wasn’t an argument, but a point of information. I don’t know how “the law stands”, so thank you for clearing that up.

I don’t agree it doesn’t need to be mentioned. Most people, like me, don’t know exactly what the law says, so its mentioning would purely be for clarity purposes in this case. That’s the biggest problem with getting people involved in the democratic process across the world- a lack of clarity.

One requires only a registrar and two witnesses to get married.

Actually the law in the UK is almost as bad as forcing churches to marry people of the same sex. Churches are explicitly forbidden from doing so! It’s ridiculous! There are many sects within Christianity and Judaism that are fine with the idea but gay Quakers won’t be able to marry in a religious ceremony!

Exactly – how is my freedom of religion respected when my meeting can’t marry the couples we’d like to?

Fiona you just contradicted yourself. You say it’s got nothing to do with the church but then you say it’s nobody else’s business. The church are stuck in the middle of this. They are totally against gay marriage and if they preach that message, their appropriately called FLOCK are influenced.

These type of polls always go like this. The headers from the hate groups can mobilise an Internet army fairly quickly.

But I think a real vote would carry easily enough. Although I don’t think a vote is required. A government with some balls is required.

Niall it’s only 20 years since homosexuality was decriminalised so I’m not really surprised, I think we as a nation have moved a giant step forward in those 20 years, of course you will have bigots but no one has to be afraid anymore to reveal their true self. I say to hell with the begrudgers!!

@oliver I fully agree. I was commenting based on the results of the poll so far which totally shocked me to be honest.

I thought it would be much higher in favour I’d be concerned we seem to still have so many against equality.

@Oliver
There is something seriously wrong with these polls.
The one on revisiting the magdalene payments got taken down.
Commentators were saying the poll was being manipulated i.e removal of cookies, same person multiple accounts etc.

@niall What I really meant by that is that it’s outside of the church’s scope. In fact the church should not have a say in anything except matters inside thier church. The state is not run by them anymore, and marriage existed long before there was a Catholic Church. But yes, they pass their opinion on this and every other issue and the sheep will follow and do what thier told.

@David
You might be correct the figures don’t seem correct.

@Fiona Now we are in agreement :)

No there is something wrong here with voting. No way this is reflective of Ireland. . I would bet money that there is some sort of distortion of this pole. It would be great if the journal could get their IT crew on it to expose it

Niall and Fiona, first off I’m Catholic, and I’m FOR same sex marriage, same sex adoptions, whatever rights heterosexual couples have should be applied to all couples. Fiona, The Church doesn’t influence What my heart tells me is right. Personally, I have to separate my relationship with God from what the church dictates. Should i be excommunicated for my views? well I’ll stand by them. I’m absolutely disgusted by some remarks made here (John). Also, there are a lot of other Christians/Catholics that feel as I do. Love, Peace, Joy.

@John how would gay couples adopting effect society in a negative way?

I’m sick of these absolute bullshtt points being made about “what does it lead to down the road?” or how it could lead to people marrying fking iguanas or something.

It comes up in every constitutional/legislative discussion and is not a reason to not make a change.

Ronan, in terms of your neighbour or milkman deciding for you – I’m afraid to some extent you have to accept that, because when the constitution was written, it didn’t take same sex marriage into account.

When it comes to referendum, I’ll be voting to support people being allowed to live their life in love that in no way infringes on my rights or anyone else’s.

Why would the milkman have a say? Baffling John.

I think you’ve already grown mixed up.

Milkman???

It’s 1976! My time machine works!

John some of my gay friends would make far better parents than some if the “straight” parents I have witnessed. I presume you are trying to say that kids growing up with same sex parents will automatically think that homosexuality is “normal”. Does that bother you? I’m in a “straight” relationship and have raised my daughter to believe that there is no difference between same sex relationships and hetrosexual relationships and that discrimination against gay people is WRONG! So by your reckoning I guess I’m also “damaging” society as a whole?

And John, with the attitude you have I’d say your kids are going to grow up far more mixed up than kids from a same sex relationship. Hopefully they have other influences in their lives so that they can grow up to avoid bigotry and maybe even educate “Daddy”

If 2 year olds could remember such things…..

@John how do you account for the children who were raised by straight people who have turned out to be awful, can the Gays do any worse?

@ John – why would you grow up mixed up? Your parents would be expressing their love for each other and a loving environment is what a kid needs. The only people who would have an issue with it would be the bigots and homophobes outside your family and if we only did what people like that wanted we wouldn’t have equal rights for anyone.

John,
Although in fairness, not the most extensive research due to low parenting rates to date, best research indicates no difference in gay & straight parenting outcomes. Have a look at current research. Loads of links there for you to start educating yourself before commenting. Hopefully it will have the added benefit of entertainingyou for a while and give thE rest of us a break from your inane comments.
http://www.bu.edu/today/2013/gay-parents-as-good-as-straight-ones/

I would wager that gay people would make much better parents than half the straight people in this country, if their offspring are anything to judge by. Gay people should and will be allowed to adopt.

I need a way to undo thumbs. Again I’ve green thumbed something thinking it was a joke (milkman should have a say), only to realise by looking at the person saying it that they were serious and a vehemently disagree.

Jeremy, a person is developed from experiences before age of 3. For example, people by the time they are roughly 3 have been sexually formed so. It means gay people have become gay within those three years. They are important years. Most kids who suffer sexual abuse testify that they have suffered at that age but memories are repressed. Just have some respect for those people that’s all.