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A protest outside El Salvador's Supreme Court in 2013

Sexual health group targeted for helping a 10-year-old rape survivor seek an abortion

A new report from Amnesty International looks at the treatment of those advocating for safe abortions and sexual health across Latin America.

IN PARTS OF Latin America women seeking to promote sexual health and access to safe abortions are increasingly subject to aggressive opposition, a new report from Amnesty International has shown.

Findings include advocates having their computers hacked, their phones tapped and having their right to advocate opposed by governments.

“Daring to speak about abortion and sex education in Latin America seems to be reason enough to be labelled a criminal, a murderer, and even a terrorist,” Colm O’Gorman, executive director at Amnesty International in Ireland has said.

In its report the NGO has spoken to a number of women who describe being subject to public harassment, death threats and physical attacks because of their activism.

10-year-old rape survivor

In April of this year in Paraguay, human rights group CLANDEM came to the defence of a girl known only as Mainumby, a 10-year-old who was raped by her stepfather and became pregnant as a result.

The group advocated for Mainumby’s right to receive an abortion, as carrying the pregnancy through to term posed risks to her life and health.

abortion - 3 Flowers carried during a protest held in Peru in May Carlos Zevallos Trigoso Carlos Zevallos Trigoso

As a result of this the group were the target of heavy opposition, with their computers being targeted with malware, members reporting receiving threatening phone calls and being photographed in the street.

Attempts were also made by groups opposing CLANDEM to have the government remove their accreditation.

Staff resigning

In Mexico abortion is legal in limited circumstances.

Only one organisation, Humanitarian Sexual and Reproductive Health Services (Servecios Humanitarios en Salud Sexual y Reproductiva), offers abortion services in the country – and since its inception in 2000 it has been the subject of steady opposition.

Protests targeting the organisation’s employees has seen the many of them of them resign.

Dr Sandra Peniche, founder and director of the organisation, has received death threats in the course of her work.

abortion - 1 Sandra Peniche Amnesty International / Prometeo Rodríguez Lucero Amnesty International / Prometeo Rodríguez Lucero / Prometeo Rodríguez Lucero

‘The dismemberment of innocent children’ 

In Peru advocates for sexual and reproductive rights found themselves for their views of abortion.

Susana Chávez, the executive director of the Centre for the Promotion and Defence of Sexual and Reproductive Rights (Centro de Promoción y Defensa de los Derechos Sexuales y Reproductivos, PROMSEX), was summoned by the Public Prosecutor’s Office after it was alleged that she had advocated for abortion in a book that wasn’t written by her or endorsed by her organisation.

abortion - 2 Susana Chavez Amnesty International / Prometeo Rodríguez Lucero Amnesty International / Prometeo Rodríguez Lucero / Prometeo Rodríguez Lucero

The Amnesty International report also contains details of the group being subject to a smear campaign by the Catholic press in the country, who described them as “promoting the dismemberment of innocent children”.

In August of last year a search of the organisation’s premises took place after a discussion in the country’s congress.

Read: Irish women who travelled abroad are sharing their faces to ‘de-stigmatise abortion’

Also: Man accused of killing 3 in Planned Parenthood shooting says he’s a ‘warrior for the babies’

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84 Comments
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    Mute Paul O'Connor
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    Dec 12th 2015, 8:09 PM

    What goes through the mind of somebody opposed to helping a 10 year old rape survivor?

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    Mute Joanna
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    Dec 12th 2015, 8:24 PM

    Pro lifers are all about the children unless that child is pregnant.

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    Mute The Thinker
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    Dec 12th 2015, 8:25 PM

    Religion

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    Mute Sinead Hanley
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    Dec 12th 2015, 9:35 PM

    As a prolifer, I think there is no way a 10 yr old girl would be physically capable of carrying a baby for 9 months. It would put her life in danger..

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    Mute T Beckett is back
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    Dec 12th 2015, 9:51 PM

    “Daring to speak about abortion and sex education in Latin America seems to be reason enough to be labelled a criminal, a murderer, and even a terrorist,” Colm O’Gorman, executive director at Amnesty International in Ireland has said.”

    “criminal, murder, terrorist” people in the US and Ireland can be labelled that way by nutters aswell. This just sounds like grandstanding.

    A report based on talking to some of these women?

    Abortion is actually legal there!
    It is limited to some extent everywhere.
    In the US and UK only single organisations do them ie planned pregnancy and marie stopes, yet they give out to Mexico for only having one agency!

    Also, that girl got an abortion, there are nutters in every country, and its the likes of Amnesty who side with the perpertrators of heinous crimes most of the time.

    Stupid “report”.

    Colm O’Gormon is a joke. An overpaid hypocrite.

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    Mute Suzie Sunshine
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    Dec 12th 2015, 10:46 PM

    T Beckett , which girl are you talking about ?

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    Mute Lee Crawford McElroy
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    Dec 12th 2015, 11:32 PM

    Nope. There are loads of clinics to get abortions in U.S. Planned parenthood is NOT the only one.

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    Mute Neal Ireland Hello
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    Dec 13th 2015, 10:50 AM

    Many would argue that putting a ten year old through the further trauma of an abortion is not helping her. The question of whether that’s true or not is far from black-and-white.

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    Mute Dell
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    Dec 13th 2015, 11:27 AM

    Many would also argue that removing a tumour is dangerous and traumatic, so should that also be left grow? The doctors who, I would assume know what they were talking about, said that the safest thing for this child would have been to have an abortion. I know no doctors who would disagree with them, there may be a handful out there that would but all that I know say that it is incredibly unsafe for a child of 10 to carry a pregnancy full term.

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Dec 13th 2015, 1:11 PM

    What goes through the mind of a rapist when abortion is legal? Coerce victim if she becomes pregnant to undergo abortion & continue with sexual abuse. http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/british-man-60-admits-raping-his-stepdaughters-infecting-them-hiv-1506047

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    Mute Paul Fahey
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    Dec 13th 2015, 2:01 PM

    Marion – so are you not a “human rights activist” for ten year olds pregnant as a result of rape?

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    Mute P-anti matter
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    Dec 14th 2015, 6:04 AM

    @marian. So legalising abortion promotes rape. Id love to know if you were a victim, and became pregnant as a result, would you seek an abortion ? Who has any right to tell any woman what she can do with her own body ? Il tell ya who think they do, radical Christians.

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    Mute Fiona deFreyne
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    Dec 12th 2015, 8:10 PM

    This story sadly could be a story in Ireland as well if the more extremist anti choice groups discovered the identiy of the victim. Extremists can cause terrible pain.

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    Mute Briny Boy
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    Dec 12th 2015, 8:16 PM

    The wicked witch of the North, Bernie Smyth, springs to mind.

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    Mute Paul Fahey
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    Dec 12th 2015, 8:22 PM

    We have several people on thejournal who regularly state that it is not the foetus’s fault that the woman was raped and they should not be punished for the actions if the rapist. It was also said on Vincent Brown this week that when the woman gives birth to a child, which is a result of rape, the woman’s biology kicks in and she loves the baby anyway. Seriously this could indeed be Ireland.

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    Mute Oisin O'Riordan
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    Dec 12th 2015, 8:29 PM

    I support the death penalty for rapists not for innocent babies.

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    Mute Fiona deFreyne
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    Dec 12th 2015, 8:49 PM

    Paul, I agree and it was the discussion with Paul Bradford and Cora Sherlock on Vincent Browne which made me realise this.

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    Mute stephen
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    Dec 12th 2015, 8:54 PM

    Oisin, hand in heart what is your motivation for interfering in a another persons business that has no bearing on you.

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    Mute Daisy Chainsaw
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    Dec 12th 2015, 9:00 PM

    What about the innocent child who was raped, Oisin? Her underdeveloped body ripped apart from within to satisfy the forced birth fascists who only care about children in the womb.

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    Mute stephen
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    Dec 12th 2015, 9:12 PM

    It hasn’t even gotten to the child stage in the womb,that’s much later.

    50
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    Mute Paul Fahey
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    Dec 12th 2015, 9:34 PM

    Oisin proves my point. Bridget and Marion the self proclaimed human rights activist should hit the home rrun for me.

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    Mute Crom Cruach
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    Dec 12th 2015, 10:06 PM

    Ah, a pro-lifer when it comes to certain matters but not when it comes to others. Well done, Oisín. We call that ‘hipocracy’ here in the real world. Feel free to join us here when you get off the drugs.

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Dec 13th 2015, 1:13 PM

    What about innocent victims of rape who have fallen pregnant and their abusers used legal abortion to cover-up the rape and continue with abuse. Legal abortion is a rapists card to freedom. http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/british-man-60-admits-raping-his-stepdaughters-infecting-them-hiv-1506047

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    Mute Paul Fahey
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    Dec 13th 2015, 2:03 PM

    Marion – but he still got convicted? You need to work harder on the articles you link. Deliberately outdated ones last week and now ones that don’t actually offer anything to the discussions.

    So, are you not a self proclaimed “human rights activist” for ten years oregnant as a result of rape?

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    Mute Paul Fahey
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    Dec 13th 2015, 2:04 PM

    Marion – please could you ask Bridget to come on and absolutely prove my point for me. Sadly people like you would rather see this happen in Ireland. Horrendous.

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    Mute Dell
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    Dec 13th 2015, 2:54 PM

    Bridget is busy trying to shame suicidal women into giving birth to babies they don’t want right now and advocating natural rhythm methods of contraception along with abstinence.. I actually don’t think I’d believe people like her still existed if I didn’t see it myself. As for Marion, using the excuse that abusers will use abortion to continue their abuse as a way to deny a 10 year old an abortion, though going through a full pregnancy could kill her, is a disgusting way to try force a pro birth agenda. You pro lifers yet again prove that you only care about the clusters of cells and not the actual fully formed person.

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    Mute Paul Fahey
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    Dec 13th 2015, 5:47 PM

    Dell – she is also too indoctrinated to realise that the police/garda would instantly be called if a ten year old presented for an abortion. The hate this woman spews to satisfy her own agenda is simply disgusting. And she self labels herself a human rights activist. Shameful.

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    Mute P-anti matter
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    Dec 14th 2015, 6:17 AM

    @Marion. Your no feminist. Human rights extend to the rape victim. A fully formed conscious human being. Not a bag of cells. PS : How does anyone’s decision to keep or abort foetuses effect you personally, apart from offending your sky daddy ?

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    Mute Deborah Behan
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    Dec 12th 2015, 8:53 PM

    That poor girl. She was made have the baby in the end I think. It nearly killed her.

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    Mute Joanna
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    Dec 12th 2015, 9:07 PM

    It is a biological f-up that girls start sexual reproduction way before they’re physically or mentally strong enough to carry a pregnancy to term.

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    Mute Suzie Sunshine
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    Dec 12th 2015, 9:45 PM

    Deborah , it did not nearly kill her , she had a c – section without any complications .

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    Mute Debbie Duggan
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    Dec 12th 2015, 10:07 PM

    Well that makes it all ok Suzie,it didn’t nearly kill her,the 10 Year Old girl had a c -section,well it’s nice to know you were by her side every night holding ger hand while she puked,had pains,watched her little belly get bigger and bigger and move and probably cried herself to sleep every night,.but thankgod it did not nearly kill her..FCUK Suzie get q grip..

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    Mute Suzie Sunshine
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    Dec 12th 2015, 10:20 PM

    Wow Debbie you got all that from my comment ? I never said any of it was ok did I ? No child should ever have to go through what she did . you shouldn’t really jump to conclusions Debbie .

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    Mute Debbie Duggan
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    Dec 13th 2015, 12:29 AM

    No Suzie,u should actually read what you put up here,that girl Deborah wrote up,it nearly killed her,u then with your comment,she had a c-section no complications,.and yes I did get that from you mgs and of course she had complications..

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    Mute Suzie Sunshine
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    Dec 13th 2015, 12:39 AM

    Did she nearly die giving birth though as Deborah put it ? No she didn’t that was the only point I was making whereas you read into all sorts .the poor child should never have had to go through any of this.

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    Mute Debbie Duggan
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    Dec 13th 2015, 1:45 PM

    How do you know she nearly didn’t die,we’re u there???.what makes Deborah mgs so wrong and yours right?..maybe she did nearly die,maybe just maybe your actualy wrong Suzie..

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    Mute Suzie Sunshine
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    Dec 13th 2015, 9:13 PM

    Because I read up on it , that’s why .the head of the hospital released a statement .

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    Mute Oisin O'Riordan
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    Dec 12th 2015, 8:27 PM

    Amnesty once again trying to force their ideals and beliefs on people. A wretched organisation.

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    Mute Fiona deFreyne
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    Dec 12th 2015, 8:47 PM

    Oisin, so you support the action taken to prevent the 10 year old child, the victim of rape, to have an abortion in this particular case?

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    Mute Mick McDonagh
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    Dec 12th 2015, 8:48 PM

    I doubt they’ll force you to have an abortion, Oisin.

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    Mute Declan Madsen
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    Dec 12th 2015, 8:50 PM

    Yeah, forcin’ their “human rights” on decent dictatorships and god-fearing’ theocracies. The monsters.

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    Mute Larissa Caroline Nikolaus
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    Dec 12th 2015, 8:57 PM

    Oisin, take your trolling elsewhere, pajama boy.

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    Mute Charlie Fogarty
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    Dec 12th 2015, 9:07 PM

    I think we are all in on the joke that is Oisin. Rub one out or scream into a pillow. Just giving it

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    Mute TommyRyder
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    Dec 12th 2015, 11:13 PM

    Have to agree with Oisin on this one.
    Amnesty are no longer a human rights organization.
    What can one expect I suppose given that Amnesty International was co- founded by a Nazi collaborator.
    And Amnesty Ireland was co-founded by a Nazi spy.
    Totally lost its way under Colm ‘I’m married, gay, have kids, marched for #Savita & I’m cooking Palestinian food for dinner. Surely that gets me on some list?’ O’Gorman’s stewardship.
    https://twitter.com/Colmogorman/status/277481245246648322
    Amnesty was “the movement that could not give the name of ‘Prisoner of Conscience’ to anyone associated with violence”. They refused to defend IRA prisoners in the Troubles because they were violent. They refused to support Mandela because he was violent.
    Now Colm O’Gorman defends the Muslim Brotherhood as well as numerous other people who despise democracy and human rights.
    Amnesty used to be defending about prisoners of conscience.
    Now they have an opinion on everything.

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    Mute Larissa Caroline Nikolaus
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    Dec 12th 2015, 11:23 PM

    So, Tommy, you would force a 10 year old rape victim to carry the pregnancy, that resulted from her ordeal, to term?

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    Mute TommyRyder
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    Dec 12th 2015, 11:28 PM

    I’m just here to criticise Amnesty.

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    Mute Paddy Scully
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    Dec 12th 2015, 10:22 PM

    I fail to understand what a “safe” abortion is, when the outcome is always the same, a dead human being. Is it considered “safe”, because the law of the land believes murder is acceptable. Is it “safe” because an innocent is slaughtered. Is it “safe” because the men and women who choose to kill, feel good afterwards. Is it “safe” because doctors, trained in preserving life, turn their Hippocratic oath on its head. Does it make us less selfish, more responsible adults. Does it promote fecklishness, abandonment, abuse and narcissism. I’m sure Amnesty will go to the ends of the earth, to find one of the rape cases that end in abortion, that 0.4%, 1/250 of all cases of abortion, to justify removing any symbolence of protection our constitution gives against the murder of the innocents.

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    Mute Fiona deFreyne
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    Dec 12th 2015, 11:02 PM

    Paddy, spoken like a true fundamentalist.

    You would force a 10 year old child to go to full term regardless of the consequences. That’s cruel and unusual punishment.

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    Mute Brendan Harlowe
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    Dec 12th 2015, 11:03 PM

    Yes it promotes fecklisness….. People having abortions always have the lols before during and after . Great craic, everyone should have one if possible. Seriously get a grip ! Whatever your view , surely you don’t believe people having abortions don’t really care or find it tough.

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    Mute Paddy Scully
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    Dec 12th 2015, 11:27 PM

    @ Fiona deFreyne It’s true Fiona, I fundamentally believe abortion murders a living human being. If the innocent baby (not a rapist) accounts for one in two hundred and fifthy of abortions carried out today, I wonder just how many are abortions on raped girls who are ten years old. A reasonable estimate is that would be about one in two thousand. Furthermore, I’m pretty sure, based on the evidence from America, many of those ten year olds will have been raped by a stepfather, or brother, who will bring them to the abortionist. They will then return again shortly after, because the abortionist will return them to the original source of their abuse. So they end up raped, abused, and living with the guilt of taking an innocent life. Now is it you, or I, are been cruel. We can all agree rape is a despicable act, only it ranks in despicablity with the murder of an innocent. Two wrongs do not make a right.

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    Mute Paul Fahey
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    Dec 12th 2015, 11:35 PM

    Paddy – thanks, you just won fundamentalist full house bingo. Seriously, you make a year old go to full term?

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    Mute Paddy Scully
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    Dec 12th 2015, 11:41 PM

    @ Brendan Harlowe Fecklesness is the term used to describe the behaviour of men, who, on becoming a father choose to fe** off and abandon their respinsability. These are often the kind of men who will be on here cheering for abortion, it does make them feel liberated. It gives great gravitas to that often used expression by such men, who on becoming a father (often again, and with a different partner) exclaim to their “partner”, “well it’s your problem, you deal with it”. I can assure you the above scenario is many times more common than the raped ten year old. Be a man Brendan, choose to encourage like, rather than encourage murder.

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    Mute TommyRyder
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    Dec 12th 2015, 11:47 PM

    You’re right of course Paddy.
    Amnesty and CLADEM which is a feminist group actively seeking the right to abortion on demand have seized on the tragic case of this child who was the victim of rape to further their own ideological ends much as the liberal media here disgracefully hijacked the Savita Halappanavar case as leverage for their own similar campaign here in Ireland.

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    Mute Paddy Scully
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    Dec 12th 2015, 11:58 PM

    @ TommyRyder Agreed Tommy. Sham-nasty changed sides from anti torture to saline solutions for the preborn. CLADEM of course cannot claim to be feminists, as they are anti feminine. Any woman who considers motherhood as a potential cause for murder, has long abandoned the feminine.

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    Mute TommyRyder
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    Dec 13th 2015, 12:11 AM

    At least if they were honest about their objectives the public who have long since seen through the hypocrisy of the pro choice movement could engage in an informed debate on the matter.
    Trying to pull the wool over the public’s eyes simply will not work in this day and age.

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    Mute Kate GO'Brien
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    Dec 13th 2015, 4:13 AM

    Paddy, the day you grow the womb, you will have a chance to decide whether you want or not to carry out the abortion (for whatever reason). Until then – shut up and have a snip. All of you – men against abortion – should have a snip. That will definitely help us – women – to avoid abortion.

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    Mute Paddy Scully
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    Dec 13th 2015, 8:51 AM

    @ Kate GO’Brien You know Kate, I do have an answer for that kind of pseudo feminist claptrap. One of the problems here is the pseudo feminists, who switched from authentic feminism, which saught equal respect for the awsomness of women; and replaced it with the desire for testes. Out of this comes the rejection of the most feminine trait, the ability to bear a child. This rejection is so profound, that you have turned this extraordinary unique gift, a womb, into a nonsensical “insult”, that you enjoy hurling at men who consider you beautiful, worthy of respect, and deserving of awe. The “new” woman, embraces fecklishness. I hope you regain your respect for authentic femininity some day.

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    Mute Dell
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    Dec 13th 2015, 10:22 AM

    Utter rubbish paddy as per usual. You do not respect women as you blatantly ignore their wishes. It is women calling for full body autonomy. painting it up with that load of bs that you just spewed at us there doesn’t make you any less of a controlling, bible bashing, fundamentalist. women wanting control over what happens to their own body does not mean they want testes, what an absolutely ridiculous stupid statement. I’m a mother of two because I chose to be, it does not make me any more feminine than friends who chose not to be mothers. Kate does not need to change, you do.

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    Mute Paddy Scully
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    Dec 13th 2015, 10:47 AM

    @ Dell Spoken with the dazzling blindness of someone who ignores the autonomy of the child, while justifying murder based on the autonomy of another. Believing abortion is a solution for anything, demeans the extraordinary gift you gave to your own two children. We’re your two any less awesome when they were in your womb. Are they the result of love, or your “choice” not to kill them.

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    Mute Dell
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    Dec 13th 2015, 11:05 AM

    Yes they were less awesome in my womb. As a matter of fact for the first few weeks they were just a cluster of cells that made me incredibly Ill. I most certainly didn’t love that cluster and they are the result of me choosing to let that cluster develop as I did want to have children. you are talking romanticised claptrap about simple cells. I do not ignore the autonomy of children, and unlike you, I do not agree with putting the life of a raped child in danger so as to let a cluster of cells develop. You do not care about children paddy, just the cells in a womb, no surprises there though, they can’t give you an opinion that differs to yours or give any opinion for that matter as those cells do not have brains.

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    Mute Kate GO'Brien
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    Dec 13th 2015, 11:09 AM

    Paddy, I am actually 5 months pregnant (due date 6th of May). It’s my second child after hard and bitter fight to become a mother. And, despite all my pain, tears and suffering trying to become a mother I would never, NEVER dare to tell another woman that she is wrong and inhuman seeking an abortion. Because their womb is THEIR WOMB, not mine! My brother and his wife burried 2 babies this year with fatal abnormalities. They could not afford the abortion in England, they got no support, help ir counselling from Irish health services. They hardly were able to afford little coffins and the funeral. We all helped as much as possible. But we couldn’t help their horrendous pain watching the belly grow, babies moving. We couldn’t find any way to help her with milk pouring from her breasts and no baby to feed. We couldn’t help her through the awful, heartbreaking howls of a mother who HAS TO give a birth in shocking pain to the child which will die BEFORE she can hold it. WE COULDN’T. HOW COULD YOU?! Who the hell do you think you are denying her an early abortion so she doesn’t have to go through that all? WHO gave you that, so called “right “? WHO?! Therefore I am saying: SHUT THE F**K UP AND GO TO PLAY WITH YOUR KIDS, instead of sitting by your phone wasting time on stupid comments. All of you, PRO-LIFERS, where starts YOUR help to those families who couldn’t have a legal abortion and struggle now? Where are your funds for medical bills and funeral costs? WHERE?! Rant over.

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    Dec 13th 2015, 11:13 AM

    I think I need to go back to not reading your posts. They reek of 1920s catholic Ireland. You know that time that your church imprisoned pregnant women and sold their babies. you stand by a church that committed absolute atrocities to both women and children and then you have the gall to preach that others do not respect children. You are a hypocrite of the highest order. you try and paint your fundamentalist, misogynistic bs as concern for women and children but your gigantic need to control others, their lives and decisions always shines through.

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    Dec 14th 2015, 6:30 AM

    @scully. Your trying to humanise a few developing cells by calling them a baby, while de-humanising a 10 year old rape victim by suggesting she carry an unwanted reminder of probably the most terrorising evil event in her short life to full term. The child was raped. Do ya understand that ? Maybe you think that’s ok because the bible says so !

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    Dec 14th 2015, 7:18 AM

    @ P-anti matter ‘You see, how interesting, and revealing it is to note the different ways, those who want to kill, attack those who want to support life. Here you attack me for dehumanizing the poor ten year old, and at the same time, deny the real humanity of the second victim, the vuenerable child in the womb. Let those who have eyes, see. Killing the baby, will not UN-rape the young girl. It will not expunge her memory of the rape, it will only add murder to rape. You might wish to quote what you claim the bible is saying, rather than quoting me, or the bible, from your immagination, because I didn’t quote anything from the bible.

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    Dec 14th 2015, 7:42 AM

    @scully. Your trying to portray all abortions to be abortion of “vulnerable children” when you know full well that in alot of cases it’s a bunch of cells. I’m sure you being the bible basher know full well what im referring to in the bible. Answer this, who do you think you are to determine what a stranger half way across the world does with her own body and how does it effect you personally ?

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    Dec 14th 2015, 7:45 AM

    @scully. “The different ways, those who want to kill, attack those who support life”. I don’t want to kill you paddy, and your opinions are your entitlement, im just argueing some points. I play the ball paddy, not the man.

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    Dec 14th 2015, 7:53 AM

    @scully. Deuteronomy 22:28-29 Exodus 22:16-19 Mathew 5:32 and 19:9 Your welcome.

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    Dec 14th 2015, 7:57 AM

    @ P-anti matter I never said you wish to kill me, I’m saying you are willing to support the killing of the innocents child. Mind you those who support abortion, usually have no problem with euthanasia, the same stable as it were. So whether I’m playing the ball, the man, or both, is indeed pertinent. I’ve resolved not to play word redefinition games in this debate, as those who target the child seem to do. I’m going to call it exactly what I believe it is, murder. If that’s playing the man, then we’re certainly in a contact sport. P.S. that is you quoting scripture, not I.

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    Dec 14th 2015, 8:03 AM

    @scully. I’m willing to support a 10 year old rape victim and I also support euthanasia. Id gladly give you a hand. Thats me playing both now. Would you support a female relative of yours if she became pregnant from a rape and wished to abort ? Listen, you havnt answered my questions and im not surprised, you’ve no answers.

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    Dec 14th 2015, 9:09 AM

    @ P-anti matter Your version of support kills an innocent human, and hopes the mother forgets her ordeal. My version of support, kills nobody, and does not add murder to rape. As I said, once a person embraces the culture of death they can excuse anything, abortion, euthanasia, the inconvenient, the bed blockers, the ones delaying “my” inheritance etc. etc. In 1815, a black human “was not a person”; in 1945 a Jew “was not a person”; in 2015 a child in the womb ” is not a person”. Your side of this debate keeps bad historical company.

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    Dec 14th 2015, 10:18 AM

    Your side of the debate should be confined to history. A child in the womb is a person, a few cells are not. Theres a fundamental difference there. Every case is different and none should be discriminated against on the grounds of the moral standings of a stranger half way around the world who doesn’t know when it’s none of his business. Your not the international moral police commissioner paddy, unless you have some other hidden agenda your pushing ? By the way, feel free to not answer any of my questions, I dont mind answering yours as you can see.

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    Dec 14th 2015, 1:09 PM

    @ P-anti matter I’m speaking as a citizen keen to keep murder against the law of the land. If you consider that moralizing, that’s your problem. As for the wee human in the womb, well again that’s a biological fact, and it is you who have to engage in the mental gymnastics to convince yourself otherwise. I’m just a clump of cells myself, as are you, but you, I, and the infant in the womb, no matter how big or small, are all living organisms. I’m unaware of any questions, which are not rhetorical in nature, awating a reply from me. If there is something specific, please ask me again.

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    Dec 14th 2015, 4:47 PM

    You can call it murder paddy, and if it was we would have alot of our women folk doing life sentences in England. Murder is against the law in Ireland paddy and as far as I know there’s no plans to change that, but to satisfy the criteria of committing murder you must kill a “person”. So, is the abortion of a few cells, the abortion of a person ? And to be honest paddy, im not surprised you havnt answered my questions, as your answers would certainly have been the usual faith based rethoricical answers, obviously with no regard to this victims individual case. Well here’s hoping your family never find themselves in this scenario, cause then your snookered.

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    Dec 15th 2015, 6:10 PM

    @kate GO’brien. Paddy wont answer your questions because he has no answers. He’s a bible bashing fundamentalist who’s blind faith has the same effect as blinkers. He is a sheep and cannot think independanently and critically and it’s as a result of his indoctrination. Very sad about your brother and his wife and a national disgrace that they couldn’t have their procedure here, surrounded by and comforted by their family. Fortunately, our children will not have to go through what they did. Ireland is progressing and waking up to the anti-christian ethos of the RCC. Paddy’s problem is common. He has a personal relationship with God which he won’t keep personal. I suspect that because his god ignores his prayers, he feels he has to blow smoke up his A rse and is fighting an honorable crusade in his name.

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    Dec 15th 2015, 6:27 PM

    @ P-anti matter You are expressing views, not asking questions. As for personhood, our high court has decided that implantation is the start point, not that I agree with them. You have not asked me direct questions, just given dubious reasons why you think murder is ok. We don’t prosecute Irish persons who have abortions in England, because it’s not our jurisdiction, and England has legalized murder of its most vurnerable.

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    Dec 15th 2015, 8:53 PM

    @scully. I’ve asked you questions paddy, your just deflecting as a rusult of having no sensible answers. What part of “which parts of the bible should I believe” is not a question for example, I wont list them all. Your deflecting Paddy

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    Dec 15th 2015, 9:25 PM

    @scully. At the risk of repeating myself……1. What business is it of yours what s stranger half way across the world does with her own body ?……..2. How does it effect you personally. 3. Those questions my expressions or questions paddy ?

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    Dec 15th 2015, 11:01 PM

    @ P-anti matter You seem to be a little confused, we are discussing abortion, I’m not sure how that became me having to justify scripture to a non believer. I have not based my defence of life on scripture, but on natural law and basic biology. You can’t defend killing a preborn within these realms, and you then start quoting scripture. I think it’s time for us to disengage, as you are not presenting questions pertinent to the debate at hand. I wish you well, and I hope your knowledge of life will expand.

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    Dec 16th 2015, 12:04 AM

    Hahahaha try expanding yours past the bible paddy. I think your confused paddy, this might be an abortion story but your ethos is effecting your opinions on the subject, so why can I not challenge that ethos ? Are you so insecure about your belief system that you continuously deflect ? When you get to the hex of it paddy, we’re male, we’l never have to face this horror, and therefore, out opinions are secondary. Talk to you again paddy.

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    Dec 16th 2015, 7:23 AM

    @ P-anti matter So here is a great lesson in the logic and modus operandi of today’s liberal. 1) It is you who exclusively decide what I am actually saying. 2) Dont answer any of the issues I raise, but accuse the other side of refusing to answer your questions. 3) If that didn’t deflect enough from ones killing of a human, for ones personal convenience, then one can always laugh. 4) Everyone knows that he who laughs at the others opinions first, has prevailed in logic. You are really textbook, the only trick you haven’t applied, is to fain offence. The “fained offence” strategy basically says, your views hurt me, so you must be removed from the debate. This is very popular among the liberal college student. Your name is a sham, your cause is murderous, you may be crowned with green thumbs, but justice and Truth will eventually name and shame you for what you are. Enjoy your cuckoon while it lasts.

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    Dec 16th 2015, 8:47 AM

    “Abortion is the only event that modern liberals think too violent and obscene to portray on TV. This is not because they are squeamish or prudish. It is because if people knew what Abortion really looked like, it would destroy their pretence that it is a civilized answer to the problem of what to do about unwanted babies.” – Peter Hitchens

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    Dec 13th 2015, 1:31 AM

    Omg….I despair. @tommy @paddy you disgust me

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    Dec 14th 2015, 12:10 PM

    @Scully, you never voiced your opinion about the matter I wrote earlier. Have you no argument? Have you nothing to say? Would you like to face my brother and his wife and tell them how good does it make YOU feel that she could not have an abortion? And, can you please maybe support them financially as they still struggle after paying for 2 little coffins and funerals. Won’t mention the cost of Xanax ond other meds they both have to take to deal with reality.

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    Feb 8th 2016, 1:37 PM

    Was once going to seek advice from this kind of places a at the same time back, however made up our minds to not hassle me bollix.
    http://condomonlineshop.com/

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