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JUSTICE MINISTER FRANCES Fitzgerald says that new legislation that would stop people refusing to pay fines is on its way.
Speaking to Newstalk today, Fitzgerald said that new laws that would be in place from 1 January that would allow people have fines taken from their pay, be that wages or social welfare.
Speaking to Dearbhail McDonald, Fitzgerald said that though the practice has been available for a number of months, the Courts Service required an IT upgrade to allow the law become practicable.
“We do have new legislation that will make a big difference.
“We have a much more modernised system that will change the approach to fines in this country.
“If people continue to refuse, they can face a very stiff penalty.”
55% of those imprisoned in Ireland last year were jailed for the non-payment of fines.
The jailing independent deputies Mick Wallace and Clare Daly this week reignited debate around the issue.
Fitzgerald said that while she couldn’t comment on the case, there is an “obligation on all of us to obey the law”.
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No wonder people don’t pay their fines at the moment if all that happens to them is given a day-trip to Limerick!!
I would say people with jobs pay them, to avoid a conviction, or if you ever plan to visit the USA or Australia
A fine is a conviction
If your fined you automatically have a conviction, a fine is the punishment for the conviction. A donation to the poor box means no conviction
Non payment of a fine won’t go against you going to Aus or the US… Even a non drug related sentence of less than six months won’t. Basically they’re considered misdemeanors and on the same level as a speeding ticket.
You can only get a conviction in court.You can get fines in the post for being drunk in a public place and such and once paid on time it’s forgotten about.
Depends what the fine is for surely Rasputin?
Cian, not really to be honest. Outside anything to do with drugs they don’t really care… Just make sure to mention it on your application as they do actually check.
Here’s what they consider criminal for Aus. There’s also a character test to check your not a lunatic or habitual drug user. Substantial criminal records A person is deemed to have a substantial criminal record if they have been: Substantial criminal records A person is deemed to have a substantial criminal record if they have been: -sentenced to either death or life imprisonment-sentenced to a term of imprisonment for 12 months or more-sentenced to two or more terms of imprisonment (whether on one or more occasions), where the total of those terms is two years or more-acquitted of an offence on the grounds of either unsoundness of mind or insanity and, as a result, the person has been detained in a facility or institution. You will have to pass a character test to determine whether you are “of acceptable character” to enter Australia. Here are the requirements for the character test: A Character test A person will fail the character test where: -they have a substantial criminal record-they have, or have had, an association with an individual, group or organization suspected of having been, or being, involved in criminal conduct-having regard to the person’s past and present criminal conduct, the person is found not to be of good character-having regard to the person’s past and present general conduct, the person is found to be not of good character-there is a significant risk that the person will engage in criminal conduct in Australia, harass, molest, intimidate or stalk another person in Australia, vilify a segment of the Australian community, orincite discord in the Australian community or in a segment of that community, orrepresent a danger to the Australian community or a segment of that community. Other possible refusals A visa will be refused where the person is assessed by the competent Australian authorities to be directly or indirectly a risk to Australian national security. Similarly, a visa will be refused where a person is determined by the Foreign Minister, or a person authorized by the Foreign Minister, to be a person whose presence in Australia: is, or would be, contrary to Australia’s foreign policy interests, ormay be directly or indirectly associated with the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction.
Is there an abridged version available?
And this is how they will get people paying for their water. I said it a few months back…
Daniel, that is the abridged version. The actual rule book is about 300 pages.
Let the bankers and developers off with umpteen millions – legislate to squeeze the money out of the “little” people!
I dont think people on this page relies what there asking for.this is basically the government putting there hand in your back pocket again foolish irish at least the other way you had a choice pay or go to jail.how dumbcan the irish get…..your all giving the government to much power to do what they want.sillypeople
Actually those are fixed penalty notices, not fines. They aren’t convictions but all fines are
Why isn’t there a debate on this bill is a very serious amount of power to give any government.What happens when the bill comes before food fg people do not agree to this it will cause untold hardship on familys.Its Draconian policy even the middleclass will get caught on this one its a fu^king trap because corporations will become more important then people.When a bill payment becomes priority over food thats a recipe for a disaster.
Lol anything under a suspended sentence doesn’t even appear on those certificates. True story
So the poor and the unemployed are now under attack by the state for not paying their TV licence.??
Blueshirts to the core.!
How much will a judge decree their unemployment benefit be reduced by,every week to pay off a fine.?
What a wonderful distraction from the fact they voted against the anti corruptions bill! How often do we need to be reminded how blatantly corrupt this government are!
so, basically, if you want to and are willing to take a stand on conscientious grounds, they are introducing laws that will punish you for that? OR , if you cannot afford a fine, say for a TV license or other charges, they can just introduce a harsher punishment because the technology is now available?
serious questions BTW
Hey what about the Councillors in Monaghan, Sligo & Donegal – no fine, no nothing, for abuse of a public state position – Start at the TOP. Get that right, then work down. Shower of Wasters.
Chris No. If you can afford the pay a fine then this will oblige you to do so even if you do not wish to. There is no law which allows one to avoid the consequences of a criminal conviction because one has a conscientious objection. If there was then we would have utter chaos. If you cannot genuinely afford to pay a fine then this law can do nothing. There are now other mechanisms to deal with people who are convicted and cannot pay fines.
The laws dont apply to such gangsters James-never did-never will.
It removes a mechanism of protesting by non payment, the door will be open for IW to do the exact same thing.
Irish Water is the only reason this legislation ever came to the fore, so desperate are FG/Lab to get their water banker tax up and running. Even fast tracked cases will take decades to get through…..so up your swiss, IW.
And rightly so.
They said this a year ago when people said they wouldnt pay their water bill and gov said they would deduct from source. Since they cant take utility from source they decided they can take fines so hey presto. The legislation literally was born to feed the quango but theyll get it through attached to a blanket stat on unpaid fines across the board including unpaid bills to iw. Theyre not stupid, the masses however are
Will it apply to utilities like water gas electric too or is it just fines?
More questions, will it be for civil as well as criminal judgements?
Most likely, they cant take it as a utility bill, but an unpaid bill eventually becomes a fine after 3 warnings of unpayment
So will Electric Ireland, Bord Gais etc. be allowed to eventually “fine” us for an unpaid bill?
Yes Original…..they will be able to get an attachment order too.
Dead right Roger, so eager are these traitors to get our water supply packaged up and handed to their mates for a few grubby piles of sterling.
No future Dail can be bound by the decision of the current one. So, if anybody has any concerns about this legislation, don’t vote for FG or labour, or indeed FF whose idea Irish Water was in the first place. Vote only for people who have signed up the the right2change principles, which includes scrapping water charges.
I see that Jammin is trying to confuse leftists into voting for SF/IRA. They have made it clear that this is not what they intend. Most leftist don’t want any connection with the Army Council.
Their Mates or Mate ? How do you know, the man who cannot be named, will pay in £Sterling ?
NO FUTURE DAIL CAN BE BOUND BY THE DECISION OF THE CURRENT ONE – Don’t be stupid – if legislation is passed by a government, it has to be ‘deleted’ by the current or subsequent government. Your romantic idea indicates you know little or nothing about legislation. U insult Connolly, an educated man.
Ireland is going to complete shite althogether what with this bollocks and the new alcohol legislation.
Yes terrible after years of nonsense being able to actually get money from those that are fined by the courts instead of going to jail for an hour. Really terrible!
At this rate we all might as well just give Michael Noonan and the Revenue our banking online customer numbers and passwords.
It’s just plain wrong to dip into people’s pay packets. This country is getting worse than America and its IRS control freaks
Well either don’t do the crime….or don’t get caught doing it! A fine is the result of a court appearance at the end of the day!
You have the option of voting these fascists out, absolutely incredible that they’re still attacking the people after years of austerity, up the price of alcohol when you haven’t got two hand me down underwear to rub together, and now they want to do you for unpaid fines, jesus people this government should be wiped out of existence.
You’re missing the point Reg. We shouldn’t be comfortable with the idea of the government helping themselves to what’s left of your salary at source. And that’s after you’ve paid tax etc.They started this with the unpaid property tax, now it’s fines. It ain’t right
It’s not right that you should pay your fines after the court finds it an appropriate punisment? What do you suggest, more community service, prison?
That’s easier said than done sir. do you know how many statutes are on the books? There are literally thousands of them. I’ll bet you’ve broken a few and did not know it. I probably have. For feck sake if you trawl through the legislation you’d think the penal laws weren’t actually that bad in comparison!
Smells like 1984 big brother and we as sheeple allow it all to happen?, democracy my backside!
Forget about the fines Reg!! The concept. Endorsing the concept of letting some snotty nosed little public servant help himself to your hard earned shackles without your permission. Where does its stop???
You forfited your permission when you were found guilty and the fine was imposed. It’s called law and order. It’s not perfect but that’s the system. Think there’s a few freemen of the earth types around here!
Priority for this government reg?, or can I think of a million and one priorities that this government has ignored, oops lets bring in legislation for unpaid fines, for crying out loud, seriously people this is what might actually be voted in at the next election if the working class don’t get off their huge backside and vote these all right jacks into oblivion.
It’s not just about the fines it’s the huge cost and waste of resourses for sending people to prison for non payment. What do you suggest, just let people away with not paying them?
Why now Reg has it become such a serious thing, why not when people actually had money, this government is in la la land people just don’t have money anymore, and yet they’re so detached from the real world they their priorities is up alcohol prices and lets hunt down non fine payers, oh lets get our priorities right here?
Reg are you really that tick.Reg lets say your mortgage comes in at same time as esb motor tax and car insurance and you had to say not pay one bill so you can do your weekly food shop. with that fines system when up and running that bill left over will get first preference over your food for the reason that it will automatically come out of your bank account.It a direct debt for bills which you have no control over this is really serious.It effects everybody not just the poor.Its total control over all of us.._.._.._.__….
No reg. Lets take the rte license that shoud be pay per view thats one problem sorted what other problems are there.This is not about fines its about paying bills its about the government putting their greedy hands into our pockets at will
Yeah, completely coincidental that this is announced the day after 2 anti-establishment TDs walked from jail after failing to pay a fine, and the same day joan burton announced that she wanted to see this measure being brought in.
Anyone think of asking the minister why the DPP has been sitting on the Moriarty tribunal findings for 4 years waiting for it to hatch?
Its also the day after Garda resources were shockingly wasted driving a man who hasn’t paid everybody from sub contractors to revenue and banks a8nd everybody in between around the place.
Your right the low life should of been locked up years ago
This legislstion went through the Dail a few months ago…..try and keep up!
Ah Jamming finished doing back ground checks in me you stalker? Could expect you to moan about a sensible piece of legislation. Any chance of giving me that recommendation of your for a new govt and Taoiseach or you still running from that? Oh and I’d appreciate if you didn’t post personal info on me that you may have found from that bit of stalling last nite.
I’m aware of that reg. My point was, Monday night FG TD caught bang to rights on national television, Tuesday silence from FG is deafening, Tuesday-Wednesday anti corruption bill being debated which government refuses to support, Wednesday 2 anti establishment (i,e. FG) TDs arrested and taken to jail. Thursday, Minister for justice appears from hiding with something to talk about other than her party colleague being caught bang to rights.
Choeographed, transparent, tosh.
Bad form about the anti-corruption legislation alright, need more there. What TD are you on about?
@ james, as stated to you a half dozen times before, a left leaning government with possibly centrist support.
Now, I know you think ‘theres no alternative’ to child poverty doubling, homelessness at crisis levels and a collapsing healthcare system, with ‘please rub my head mammy merkel’ boy at the helm, but there are always alternatives.
It was funny last night to see you try on your cowardly ‘there is non alternative’ crap with your facebook buddies. You must be great fun at partys
Apologies reg, ‘FG councillor’. He wasn’t demanding a big enough bribe to be a TD.
Jamming I see you were stalking my linkedin page as well – pretty creepy. Even more creepy when you raise other info unrelated to topics here when you’re struggling to make sense on these topics. As I said before you”re the biggest moaner here about the present govt and still cannot recommend a specific credible alternative. Don’t worry about xmas parties or child poverty – thats only deflection. At least give us a Taoiseach if you can’t come up with the parties. God you’re some bluffer.
Yes great thst RTE were able to uncover these dodgy councillors. With 900 odd of them there’s bound to be some more. Hope the Gardai/DPP take action.
Who’s everyone Fake Avast? My issue with Jamming was bringing up info from another medium same as she did after going through another posters linked-in profile. It’s just a miserable tactic when struggling here. Creepy slant to your question too btw.
@ james “Don’t worry about xmas parties or child poverty”
Well some people do worry about child poverty james. The rest vote for your lot, the ‘whats in it for me’ people.
So which alternative govt and Taoiseach would fix that Jamming if the current lot can’t??
Oh look, the one trick pony flogging the dead horse. I’ll ask santy to send you the answer on a t-shirt printed in reverse so you can read it every time you look in the mirror.
Adsorbing basic information isn’t really your forte, is it?
Jammin is a stalker
It’s incredible all the moanimg and whining and can’t suggest a credible alternative govt and Taoiseach. Any wonder Kenny is odds on again to lead the country.
John mick Wallace said on Vincent brown that everybody was paid up.So i intend to believe him Vincent would of pulled him up on it if he didn’t .John there’s a lot worse out there then mick “wink wink”
For everyone except td’s
Yes Paul why did the Mimister wait for two TDs to not pay as they said all the time they would not the Minister is asleep Wake up Goverment
The government didn’t wait. This legislation went through the Dail months ago.
It’s all a cover for Irish water fines
55% of those imprisoned in Ireland last year were jailed for the non-payment of fines and a large portion of those for “traffic offences” … car tax and insurance.
€700 Car Tax per annum for those who cant afford new cars
€280 Car Tax per annum for those who can!
Disgusting place to live.
It’s not just statutory fines fines covered. Private companies will also be able to apply for an attachment order which is most certainly not a good thing. I’ve no problem with taking statutory fines but grievances between private parties should be kept well out of it….
It will require a court order so they can’t just produce an attachment order out of nowhere.
It will be interesting to see how a private company will get attachment orders on ”customers” who never signed contracts with them.
The courts will decide.
The courts, which are riddled with political interference, will make things up as they go along.
Reg, then your rightly screwed if you’ve a genuine grievance and unable to afford the same level of counsel as the company taking you to court. As I said I’ve absolutely no issues with statutory fines but civil matters should be left well out of it.
Prove that claim. Because if Irish water can effect this as a private company can do this without a court order as can the revenue then they can do it without a court order. Look them up, the revenue, Irish Water and even the Gardai are listed companies
Mark, are revenue or the gardai registered as private companies?
Reg they can do anything they want dont be kidding your self
It`s amazing how fast this government can act, when it wants to steal from your wages or social welfare. They do f**k all else but sit around and think of ways to screw more money out of people their a bloody disgrace to this country and it`s people.
Don’t mention the Moriarty tribunal Void… They want to ignore doing something about that!
As long as voters leave their brains at home when they go to the Polling Booths they will continue to be abused by financial predators:-
- Landlords who max their Rent,
- Banks who max their Debt (societal and personal just to get a roof over their heads)
- Political Parties who max their Tax (like LPT, Water Tax, Obscene Car Tax and pass laws (FG & Labour) to take it from your pay or pension if you are unable to pay.)
Whats the alternative @Neuville. Each party is as bad as the other so it doesn’t matter who gets in.. Look at Renua, they had a proposal for 23% flat tax, people here laughed at it(yes the party itself is a joke), but yet give out about a few quid here and there. only paying 23% tax is hundreds or thousands a month extra for some people to take home. Thats the kind of fresh thinking this country needs.
Eventually…an end to the costly nonsense of sending people to prison for non payment of fines.
Yes. About time. It’s ludicrous. Wonder how they will dock the pay fro self-employed people though?
Dole and PAYE should be simple enough. Finally. some of those dole hounds may actually have to pay out of their dole rather than going to prison for a few hours to discharge it.
As a tax deduction perhaps?
€1 a week out of the dole only. Anything more and its a call to Joe Duffy saying they are starving to death and can’t afford sky sports anymore.
Would you ever listen to yourselves, pathetic. You are all trying to make out that the only people who don’t pay fines are the unemployed, get a grip. Did it ever occur to you that maybe people are sick and tired of being chased for every penny the government can bleed out of you while at the same time, every second day t.d.’s are getting caught for screwing the system themselves through expenses, back handers and dirty deals and none of them seem to be penalised for it. The government are hypocrites and rotten to the core. Remember Michelle Mulherrin and the phone bill she ran up. Gangsters and not one bit credible and they have the cheek to brew up a storm regarding Mick Wallace and Claire Daly.
@Pepper. Such a gentleman and b.t.w. I am entitled to my opinion.
Yes. And it’s ‘pathetic’.
OOPS, dId I touch a nerve mentioning Michelle Mulherrin?
@ Pepper. Where is the comment where you told me to F*** off gone?
FG are doing a fine job of turning Ireland into a country where; Go to work, pay your bills, come home and sleep, wake up and do the very same thing. Is looking like the only option for people.
Why what’s the alternative, lay around on the dole?
Sounds like my life….is that bad?
How about being left alone to live and work in peace. The government belongs to the people and is supposed to be there to stop us being has sellers and the constitution is supposed to be there to stop the government being tyrants. Sadly both the apparatus of govts and the constitution has failed with our sheepish consent. Well we deserve the govt we elect don’t we?
Brilliant! It’s a continuation of the worrying gradual process of the people losing freedom and becoming total slaves to a gov. It worrying because this gov has proven itself to be corrupt and god knows what they could attempt to do with such control over the people.
Also I hear they’ve put security people in some of the social welfare offices. I’m guessing some people might get kicked off SW and the gov might be expecting some angry people arriving at the SW offices about losing it and the security guys will be there to stop them getting in. Then i expect gov politicians will be boasting about unemployment numbers going down, not because of people getting jobs but because of the gov not paying out.
”55% of those imprisoned in Ireland last year were jailed for the non-payment of fines”
There you have it folks, the great Irish ”justice” system. A great little country to do business in…. if you are a violent career criminal several dozen convictions you can rest assured that you will either get a suspended sentence, or at the very least a token sentence and early release.
Get back down on your knees peasants. Your masters have spoken.
Fg/LAB way of taking money for iw.
So now the right of appeal or peaceful protest and or civil disobedience is destroyed with tacit consent of the governed. The Empire is truly reborn.
Why is the right of appeal affected? That’s still there and will always be.
This is about taking the money for offences from pay-packets and reducing the amount of cop, court, and prison service time taken up with such minor matters. It’s a positive step forward.
All of this draconian legislation, just so they can force through the privatisation of our water supply. And to think 100 years ago people died for this country. What a shameful, corrupt, state of affairs we are stuck in.
Well said waterside. No minutes for meetings for the setup of Ir!sh w@ter and now this to force the privati$ation. We are being farmed by these corupt neanderthals! Thankfully there is a chance to vote coming. I’ve big mistakes to account for.
This governments perception of citizens is deplorable, they can’t afford to pay these fines, how hard is that to understand. maybe some community service or unpaid work would be a better option. It is just another tax on the poor who don’t have the protection of the state when it comes to unlawful acts. Another converted tax on the most vulnerable in our society and if it succeeds we will see fines rise. People should never have being jailed for non payment another law dating back to when we were ruled by a foreign power. If the money is not in the bank what happens then? we already have people choosing between food or heat. Will young family’s find themselves at checkouts of supermarket having to leave empty handed with no food to feed their children or will banks charge more fees as more people live on over drafts. Are voters supposed to be impressed by this?
What ever happened to paying fines in installments that justice were suppose to bring in
What type of fines are covered by this?
Water fines
Hand our water supply to corrupt buddies, type fines.
Great idea. Mick Wallace you’re about to be 2 grand lighter
Fine Gael as is their way always looking for someone else’s pound of flesh but never their own.
Probably won’t be retrospective
Great and long over due, i hope it can be back dated to include those so called tds
This should include social welfare payments .
Yes, we can’t have the poor getting away with not paying fines just because they can’t afford to.
Fitzgerald said that while she couldn’t comment on the case, there is an “obligation on all of us to obey the law”. Yes, all of us except politicians it seems. Funny, yesterday the government voted AGAINST the setting up of an independent anti corruption agency! Why would 70 of them vote AGAINST such an agency if they had nothing to hide and were decent law abiding citizens???? Frances Fitzgerald being one of those voting against it herself…
Now Mick and Claire look what you started.
Hackers will have a fine time
This law should be reversed by any incoming government. Not at all acceptable.
More FG Fascism
Nanny States. Just send the bailiffs round.
What ridiculous filter is stopping me post.. Test… Corrupt
I agree with this measure not one wants to go to prison.
Trst test test… Why can’t I post
This is completely wrong in my opinion. People have the right to refuse to pay in certain circumstances. It would be more in the people’s interest if they had of voted in favour of an anti corruption bill in public office….pathetic to the core
Test.
So for arguments sake this gets approved in both houses and gets passed, will they change the wording to take funds not just from those who get pay but also those who receive allowances. Not all those who work break the law, there are a few who stay at home watching daytime tv and then commit crimes in the evening or late at night who don’t pay the fines….. Why oh why are those who work and pay taxes the ones who suffer first.
About time.
Listen to this American life last week’s podcast. This can be bad news.
Bring back the debtors prison! Lets start again!
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