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DURING THE 2011 presidential election Martin McGuinness became increasingly irked by questions about his IRA past. At one point he told reporters: “Most Irish journalists, if Nelson Mandela was sitting in front of them, would not go down this line of questioning.”
He was not comparing himself to Mandela, he added swiftly, but that hasn’t stopped McGuinness’s detractors from using the remark to criticise the divisive republican leader.
Many wondered how on earth could a man convicted of IRA membership, and considered a figurehead in an organisation responsible for many atrocities in the North, even come close to the anti-apartheid leader who is revered worldwide.
McGuinness told TheJournal.ie this week that, for the record, he would never compare himself to the former South African president:
I’d never compare myself to Nelson Mandela, how could I? How could anybody?
The North’s Deputy First Minister does insist, however, that he has never shied away from his past:
“I have never tried to pull the wool over people’s eyes about my history. I come from the Bogside. I come from a community that was discriminated against for far too long. Not just treated like second class citizens, but third class citizens in our own city and as a result of that there was a conflict. I was part of that conflict.
But I’ve also, for the last more than 20 years, been part of a very important peace process that is held up as a beacon of hope for many other conflicts throughout the world.
McGuinness does not regret his part in the conflict, but does regret that there was one in the first place, and that “an awful lot of people were hurt” because of it.
All that said, he believes his work over the past 20 years, which he repeatedly refers back to in our wide-ranging interview, means that even unionists appreciate the work he has done as part of the peace process:
People in the unionist community regularly come up to me and utter the phrase, which is a common phrase that I get everywhere, including on the streets of London, ‘you’re doing a great job, keep up the good work’.
He recently faced a series of probing and uncomfortable questions from journalist Eamonn Mallie about his involvement in violence during the Troubles.
“How did you feel when you pulled the trigger to kill a soldier or police officer?” Mallie asked.
It was a question McGuinness was reluctant to answer for fear of providing sensationalist headlines. He insists however that such questions don’t bother him.
But will he ever talk about ‘pulling the trigger’? We asked:
It’s been an extraordinary few years for McGuinness who, in addition to his day-to-day job in the Northern Executive, has run for the presidency in the south and met the Queen on a number of occasions.
It’s something he could never have imagined, particularly now that he enjoys such a convivial relationship with Her Majesty.
“I could never have imagined that in my younger days or even in my 40s or 50s,” he said. “But all of us are on a journey, not just on this island but on the other island.”
I think whenever an opportunity presents itself to show the unionist community, the loyalist community in the north, what a united Ireland would look like, I was certainly going to seize that opportunity to show respect to them by meeting someone who they give their allegiance to.
He said the Queen made a “big impression” on her State visit to Ireland in 2011, a visit that Sinn Féin famously snubbed, with McGuinness declining to attend the State dinner at Dublin Castle.
He said it was the right decision at the time for the “cohesion of the party”. What changed was what the Queen told attendees at Dublin Castle in May 2011 when she said that with “the benefit of historical hindsight we can all see things which we would wish had been done differently or not at all”.
McGuinness believes those words changed things and he was prepared to argue, within Sinn Féin, that he, and others, should meet with the Royals:
I think it was quite clear from looking at how the British handled that that this was a person who understood that there was a very bad history, and that big acts of reconciliation were required, and which she engaged in big acts of reconciliation.
“I argued very strongly within the party that the time would come when we would have to reciprocate and I think we have done that.”
There’s more from our interview with Martin McGuinness on TheJournal.ie this weekend.
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I think it’s very easy for people who didn’t grow up in the midst of the troubles, or for those who didn’t have to witness the calamity of what was going on in areas of Belfast and northern Ireland to pass judgement on the likes of Martin McGuinness! There was a whole section of community who were marginalized and treated like dirt in which he witnessed and grew up in.. The likes of McGuinness felt the action taken was a legitimate response to what was happening at that given time.. There were of course cowardly atrocities on both sides of the conflict that will always be condemned and never forgotten. We’ve come along way since then and the likes of McGuinness, Ian Paisley John Hume have played a pivotal part in the peace we have today. Regardless of what you think of McGuinness he deserves some credit when you put things in perspective. Dragging up the past constantly and holding grudges does nothing.
Yes he deserves some credit. That’s a different thing to ‘Yes he deserves a position of leadership in the community’. He says he never tried to pull the wool over people’s eyes but it took him years to admit he was armed on Bloody Sunday (2006) and if you read this on his responses in the Savile enquiry you see that he wasn’t exactly frank and honest http://thebrokenelbow.com/2011/09/17/martin-mcguinness-some-questions-to-ask-answer/ . He still won’t say if he was involved in killing anybody. If I was a northern unionist, or even a non-sectarian moderate, I would not be at all happy with McGuinness, position of power given his history.
Think about it folks as we enter into the centenary year of the 1916 rising…Irish Catholic citizens had a far more equitable existence in 1916 than the Catholics of 1960s NI.
One person one vote, no gerrymandering of constituencies to suit the unionist minority, etc etc.
He is elected
The Miami Showband massacre and cover-up by both governments should not be forgotten. Je suis freedom and equality.
why refer to journalist Eamonn Mallie,McGuinness must have ripped the Journals ‘journalist’a new one.Why waste Marty’s time,bringing him in for an interview and then roll out other reporters guff.
I doubt Hugh or Mallie will be ringing politicians like Jeffrey Donaldson who donned the terrorist uniform of the udr to see if they ever pulled the trigger whilst acting as paid terrorists.
Looking back on history, UK Tories and Unionists have always tried to divide societies and keep the labouing classes in the margins. Even women had to fight to be allowed a vote in the tory held parliament.
Joe you do realise that historical events are still subject to charge trialnand conviction for all former combatants, except those under orders and colusion of the British forces and government.
If your concern is so strong about ALL past actions then join Sinn Fein in calling for a truth forum from all participents in the conflict.
Just think 34 people were murdered by British agents in Dublin and Monaghan on the one day and the FG government at the time stopped the Garda ivestigation after only a couple of months and every government in the meantime have helped cover it up. That’s a national scandal.. Coming up to the election the disappeared and Maria Cahill will be thrown at SF but yet our Government can help cover up the biggest atrocity of the troubles that was carried out by known British agents and nothing is said about it..
Well said Peter, people just don’t realise this or conveniently forget it, also we need to realise that atrocities were carried out then as now, unfortunately some people only know/believe what the man dressed in a suit on the TV says. But we cannot let the people who only want us divided to win, chances are they have a vested interest in keeping Ireland in a state of unrest, more that likely this vested interest is ensuring their snouts are firmly in the trough, if this means Ireland and the Irish People lose out, then so be it as far as these people are concerned, you’ll see these types make there comments here.
We have our own “dividers of irishness”, Same types that existed down through the last few centuries dividing us and working to Irelands detriment , their very vocal and can be seen here, their the true enemy of Ireland.
Nice photo of that Freemasonic handshake with the Queen…
Supernova Ian Paisley was the one figure that constantly fanned the flames of secretarian hate up there. Hate speech was his contribution in those awful years, then with one foot in the grave he attempted to row back and gave interviews protesting that he really was a nice guy all along, the man was a demon
A fantastic man who has done so much to bring on the path of peace and mutual respect. Derry is now a fantastic town rather than the Alabama-like anti-Catholic backwater it was in the past. I was in a bar there recently and a guy came in and ordered fags in Irish without a problem.
Best city in Ireland. I love Derry.
He did what he had to at the time. If anyone down here was in the same position they’d do the same. I often think of him as the modern day Michael Collins that lives to see peaceful days and was a key leader in that peace process as Collins more than like would have being if he had lived.
Mickmc Collins was the cause of the problem up there. There’d have been no border if Collins and his buddies hadn’t signed that one sided treaty. The Catholics were left marooned in a hostile orange state
It’s never mentioned that Mandela led an armed group called Mk. They had close links with the IRA who offered support including training. Mandela was not just some nice old man he was a freedom fighter like Mcguinness.
True statesman. You wouldn’t see any of the blueshirts putting there life on the line for there fellow countrymen! #whatsinitforme seems to be the FG motto!
I think Nelson Mandela realised that the solution for South Africa lay in negotiating a deal with F. W. De Clerk. In South Africa a Black majority was being ruled by a White minority. During the Apartheid era the military wing of the ANC found common cause and support from Sinn Féin and its military wing as both were fighting for freedom from oppression ( though in different political contexts).The difference for Northern Ireland was that a Unionist Majority was oppressing a Nationalist Minority. Once freedom came in South Africa, Mandela was guaranteed the Presidency and the heroic legacy. Once peace came to Northern Ireland the only guarantee was that if at some future time a majority by plebiscite wished a united Ireland to happen then it would happen. It could be argued that McGuinness’ legacy is a more heroic one than Mandela’s in that he has had to take responsibilities to make the agreement work ( which he continues to diligently do). Meanwhile our own little weasels down South have the luxury of aspiring to a United Ireland while at the same time doing sweet damn all about it. Mandela had the luxury of being able to step down as President and bask in the adulation of his people for the rest of his life. Mandela’s biggest sacrifice was his 28 years in prison which lent added sanctification ( and rightly so) to his efforts. McGuinness’ lot is to stay engaged ad infinitum to promote peace in the hope the Nationalists will out breed the Unionists in the future.
Pity your mate Gerry can’t say the same
We all know why he can’t and won’t. I wouldn’t myself.
Jaysus Enda you reek of desperation. If you’ve nothing to offer but scare tactics you simply have nothing to offer
Clearly scare tactics is something to offer might not be what you want but it’s definately something to offer
Is there an election on the horizon?
Marty can be a lovely guy when the flow is going his way, but watch the body language when someone says somthing that gets under his skin..The eyes go steely and the lips tighten and I wouldn’t wish for my worst to be in his presence at that moment especially in a dark room and no media present
evil to the core. running about with a machine gun on that faithful Sunday in Londonderry, has he any shame at all?
Martin would have made a far better President than Pee Wee Higgins
No.
Well the electorate obviously didn’t think so
The electorate thought Bertie was a great lad.
SF/IRA have no time for democracy. Their trolls in Parnell Square are in full flow today.
I think McGuinness would have made a very good president. I also think Higgins is doing a great job. A great orator and statesman imo.
@ Power abbey, spoken by a true enemy of Ireland
While I might completely disagree with SF fantasy economics you have to give this man more respect than his leader
Fantasy economics is FF budget with a 600m hole in it, not the SF proposals each of which are fully costed
Exactly Sam. Sinn Fein alternative budget was the only fully accosted by DOF and found to be workable and balanced. Could you imagine the clamour if SF budget was €600 million out? Shinnernomics etc etc etc. all the Blueshirt trolls on here would be on their high horse again.
As for Martin, as a previous post said, unless you lived through it it’s difficult to comment on what life was like under oppressive legislation and discriminatory establishment then no one is fit to comment. My grandfather never even had a vote all his life due to this very situation. Britain likes to say it’s war dead died for democracy, well so did the many volunteers who took up the
fight for equal rights and equal opportunity.
It’s amazing how many economics experts are out there when it comes to SF proposals. Even more amazing is that they all rehash the exact same phrase (“fantasy economics”) without going into any kind of explanation whatsoever to back up that view. It’s almost as though they are just blindly repeating a catchphrase relating to a topic they know very little about.
http://www.politicalpeopleblog.com/sinn-feins-economic-policies-are-more-credible-than-you-are-told/
Paul, the only costings SF ever produced were on the back of an envelope, totally meaningless until they can enact them in government.
Nothing added but time.
An interview with Collins might be on the same lines. Or more similar to DeVelera ?
Tell me Hugh,is your shirt getting a little bit “jaded”,oh my mistake,it’s still as blue as ever
I like to think McGuinness was one of the pure members of the IRA who was genuinely fighting for the cause rather than using it as a vehicle to intimidate people and communities merely for criminal gain as so many others did.
The overwhelmingly vast, vast majority of IRA operations were directed at British security force personnel and fortifications. The whole “using it for criminal gain” argument doesn’t really stand up to much scrutiny when it comes to the years of armed action. Membership of the IRA was, as often remarked, a fast track to a grave or a cell…generally the people who took that risk to join, did so for honorable, noble reasons. They simply couldn’t have forced Britain and unionism to the negotiating table if it were any other way.
So the IRA guts only discovered how to use the organisation for criminal gain after the Good Friday Agreement. Full the other one!
guys
So the British “could not defeat” a rag tag buch of people who were only out to line their pockets? Weird then, that the overwhelmingly vast majority of their operations were attacks on British security forces and installations, which provided absolutely no financial incentives, whatsoever.
I like Martin he is by far the most honest about his past and his involvement in the troubles, unlike another individual who constantly denies links with this past!
Gerry Adams TD, the most popular party leader on the island of Ireland. A man of the people, with the people, for the people. TAL
pity about the blood on his hands…….
John is this the same mister nice guy Gerry who used to say we’ll never sit in stormont wit a Union Jack fluttering on the roof?
Peter, it’s a pity about the stench of corruption off Kenny, Noonan, Kelly (who we are not allowed comment on). It’s a pity about the suicides, the homeless dying on the streets, the hunger of children, the eviction of families, all courtesy of Kenny.
Martin Mc Guinness may or may not bear comparison with Nelson Mandela. But that comparison should be on the basis of their respective achievements. Not on the lazy fatuous journalism which suggests that comparison is not possible because Martin Mc Guinness was an IRA leader responsible for atrocities while Nelson Mandela was revered worldwide as an anti-apartheid leader. Would anyone, perhaps least of all Nelson Mandela himself, suggest that his achievements were made without violence? Of course not. Your interviewer already appears to know the answer to a central question he wants to put. Hardly the stuff of what fair but incisive interviews are meant to be.
Mandela was no saint either.
He was a terrorist who blew up a Durban shopping killing six innocent people.
I have to say I grow more and more weary every day here of the constant one sided view of events that happened during the troubles, being pushed by the sf propaganda machine here.
The real heroes were people like John Hume, who fought tirelessly for peoples rights without resorting to blowing the bol*ox out of every town and killing so many
As great a job as John Hume did, he didn’t bring Britain to the table. Armed conflict did unfortunately for us all
Alan that was not goal of the provos, let’s bomb the brits to the table, it was brits out. Very different, while the provos were claiming to be the legitimate army (and government ) of the 32 counties and against the wishes of the over whelming majority of people on this island, carrying out many war crimes ( happened both ways I know) John Hume was the voice of reason. Their objective failed, hence this continual rewriting of history
I don’t think anyone, in the provos or otherwise, thought the brits would just pack up and leave. Negotiations were always inevitable. Some will say this is a new phase of the same objective, some will say they failed. What is very clear is that there would be no equality for catholics in NI without the armed conflict of the troubles.
In your opinion, personally I think peaceful protest would have got there
Why do you think so? British history on this island would go against that
Tom Kenny: “Personally I think peaceful protest would have got us there” Tom, you’re deeply and hilariously mistaken if this is what you think!! Protest peacefully and wait for the loyalist thugs to attack? This is what was happening while British state forces looked on or even joined in.
Tom, peaceful protest is doing a lot of good here. It’s simply ignored by the government and biased media. Like the people protesting do not matter, arrest a few to frighten them is the governments answer. maybe it’s time we started to up the ante a little. They might listen then.
He is a lot more honest than his leader…..
Was the way he set up Sean Gallagher during the live debate honest ?
Getting a sf stooge to make false allegations during the debate, Gallagher may have made it worse but it doesn’t take away from the level Mcguinness was prepared to stoop,
bit rich then when he starts crying about dirty tricks etc
@Tom Kenny,
I’m just glad someone took down Gallagher.
He deserved it, with his talk of money in envelopes.
I’m not defending Gallagher, I’m talking about a man running for the presidency of our country, deliberately lying about and setting up another candidate, that’s not the sort of statesman we needed as president
Double think. Mandela’s final legacy is a S Africa that is worse than when he started his campaign. It is a security no go area, riddled with corruption.
Mandelas wife – with his collusion – ran her infamous Football Club https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stompie_Moeketsi and his ANC which took power were a sick joke.
I’ve no doubt Mandela’s intentions were good, his legacy is less than shining however.
N Irl is a far better place.
Most of the discrimination against Catholics had come to an end by 1974 In many ways the Sunningdale agreement was the same as the Belfast agreement However SF kept the war going until 1998 it became a very sectarian conflict.
On what basis do you think that SF were the sole protagonists?
Cop yourself on ” . ”
Discrimination against Catholics was rife right up until the RUC left the stage. I know that well enough from first had experience. The state forces were, right up until the end of the RUC, colluding with loyalism in assassinations of the Catholic people. A nationalist, right up until the mid to late 90′s, had to run a gauntlet of harassment and threats from the state police as they drove the roads in their daily life. Discrimination over in 1974? Cop yourself on.
As for Sunningdale, are you seriously trying to say it was a solution? An “agreement” that didn’t once include the phrase “equality”? Which didn’t propose the scrapping of the RUC? An Agreement which didn’t cover for an end to Internment without trial (odd that internment was even in place, since you thought discrimination was long gone by then, eh?). Your post almost implies that Sunningdale would have succeeded were it not for republican opposition, as it was republicans who “kept the war going”. Doesn’t that conveniently overlook the fact that the majority of unionism was anti-sunningdale and worked with loyalist paramilitaries during the UWC strike to proclaim that they were prepared to start civil war before accepting such a powersharing agreement.
To .
Ah read some history, you idiot. Does that dot represent your brain.
@Larry
How about instead of just posting “ah read some history”; you actually tell me what you disagree with and provide the evidence?
(P.S. I don’t have to read about a time that I lived through)
P.s. I see from your facebook page that you are from Duleek. I therefore bow to your vastly superior knowledge of the conflict in the six counties. After all, I only lived there through it all, but you’re from Meath so you’d have had much more first hand experience of it.
Other people lived through it also in the north and they view it very different than you. As for you assertion above that the vast majority of attacks by the ira were on British forces, what about the fact that the ira bombed the heart of many towns many times ?
Was talking to “Dot” there Tír Eoghan, not you. I actually agree with you, old boy.
“Other people lived through it also in the north and they view it very different than you.”
And does that mean that unionists weren’t threaning Civil War if Sunningdale was enacted, all of a sudden? Does that mean that Catholics were actually not being tarted by the security forces through collusion, right up until almost the turn of the millennium? Does that mean that internment wasn’t actually ongoing at the time of Sunningdale? Which of these points as raised above, are you disagreeing with, and provide the evidence.
“As for you assertion above that the vast majority of attacks by the ira were on British forces, what about the fact that the ira bombed the heart of many towns many times ?”
Are you a wee bit slow, Tom? Just because they sometimes bombed cities, doesn’t mean that their other attacks magically didn’t happen. That they sometimes bombed cities doesn’t negate the simple fact that the overwhelming majority of their attacks were directed at british security force personnel and installations. It’s really not that complicated.
PS where’s Dunleek?
lol fair enough Larry!
More than unionists view it different, personally I think the sdlp narrative is the fairest and most honest view, but don’t let that stop you from pushing the ira view as actual history. Larry I was replying to the fella that thinks his view is gospel, sad really, totally incapable or unwilling to take a balanced Honest view, one side only. So when we always heard there is at least 2 sides to any story, not so with Tir, one side only
TEG I love the way you consistently and comprehensively annihilate the armchair experts on here. Keep up the good work.
The only thing Teg annihilates is the truth
OK Tom, since you are accusing me of lying based on the posts above, tell me which of my points listed above (which I’ll again list here) is untrue, and explain why (and maybe explain which of these points the SDLP narrative tells differently):
1. Internment was still on going at the time of Sunningdale
2. The Sunningdale porposals didn’t mention the word “equality” once in the entire document
3. The largest branch of unionism was opposed to sunningdale and threatened untold bloodshed and “civil war” should it be enacted
4. Collusion was ongoing right through until the mid to late 90′s.
I await the answers with interest.
The lie is the ira objective, it wasn’t power sharing, it was Brits Out, I’m not saying that there wasn’t collusion or that the unionist population didn’t view catholics as 2nd class or any other injustices you care to mention but you are paint a one sided view of the provos and their aims
Yes Padraig,
I enjoy T.E.G’s posts too, he knows his stuff, very informative.
“The lie is the ira objective, it wasn’t power sharing, it was Brits Out”
So you chose to tackle me on a topic I didn’t make in the post you responded to by accusing me of lying? It’s not exactly a point of argument for anyone on any side of the argument that the IRA’s stated objective was Brits out and that both they and the British government (as acknowledge by both the British army and later, the former Prime Minister of the time) both realised neither could win militarily. Which is why the IRA were secretly meeting the British Government to negotiate for power sharing.
Now since you responded to my post on Sunningdale by claiming I lied, I once again, ask you to quote which of these things I was lying about:
1. That internment was still on going at the time of Sunningdale
2. That the Sunningdale porposals didn’t mention the word “equality” once in the entire document
3. That the largest branch of unionism was opposed to sunningdale and threatened untold bloodshed and “civil war” should it be enacted
4. That collusion was ongoing right through until the mid to late 90′s.
GRMA watersedge
Tom, What about the western countries that bombed the heart out of Iraq for starters, this was before any Isis surfaced, WMDS were the lies of the day, when a certain professor in England said it was all lies he just uped and committed suicide, strange eh, now I’m from the west, and when it comes to sides, I’m in no doubt which side I’m on, but, can I ask, do you make the same comments about the US, GB, France etc etc etc, also, do you go to church every Sun knowing what they got up to ?. No one can throw stones, if they do, then expect to be hit by one.
Gael, Larry is replying to Dot, not you.
I think you have to give the guy some credit for bringing the majority of the hardliners in the north into peaceful existence, while not having achieved their stated goal of a united ireland. That’s leadership. I think his focus now is on working with unionists to try to prove to them that a united ireland could be good for them too. Not an easy job needless to say. Equality and respect for each heritage is key.
Death in a suit. He makes no apology for the misery and heartache that he brought to so many.
Ahh shut up .
Lets compare sinn feins leader with your leader Enda
Gerry Adams. volunteered to protect and free his community. For his struggle he was shot twice, jailed, beaten by security forces and his life is under constant threat. He brought a situation of state violence and oppression against the nationalist minority to a situation of equality. The next step is a united Ireland. This man has shown the utmost courage, bravery and conviction.
Enda Kenny. has been an overpaid civil servant all his life. lives in a fantasy bubble. Has sold his country down the swany. Has bowed down to his European master and big business, He is a coward who is afraid to even do an interview and he tramps on the very people he should be fighting for. In short he is a moron.
his people being who? sinn fein had little or no electoral support prior to the ceasefire. The real heros are guys like mallon and hume, who consistently demanded, and followed, peaceful means.
@Clúmháin
Given that peaceful protesters were being gunned down on the streets by the British Army, and beaten off other streets by the RUC/B-Soecials together with loyalist paramilitaries like at Burntollet, can you break down exactly how we’d have gotten to where we are today without people having taken up arms, just like they did in the Tan War?
If violence is the answer to the question of peace, why did Hume get a Nobel peace prize and not Adams or McGuinness? If you start justifying the needless taking of lives, where and how do you stop? I remember the tit for tat murders. Defending communities seemed a distant memory when pure sectarianism ran riot. All sides committed unspeakable murders. It wasn’t murders that won the peace, it was people who wanted the killing and death to end.
“If violence is the answer to the question of peace, why did Hume get a Nobel peace prize and not Adams or McGuinness? If you start justifying the needless taking of lives, where and how do you stop?”
Are you a pacifist? i.e. Do you believe no war is justifiable? Were the Old IRA all just violent psychopaths and murderers?
“I remember the tit for tat murders.”
I lived through them. And I learnt about them all, not just the one’s a Section 31 state censored RTÉ News felt the need to tell me about.
“Defending communities seemed a distant memory when pure sectarianism ran riot.”
An ill-informed, lazy generalisation. The IRA campaign was overwhelmingly aimed at British security forces and installations. Only in a small number of cases did they, unjustifiably) attack people for sectarian reasons. As mentioned, the book Lost Lives, outlines that around 75% of IRA victims were willing participants in the conflict, which is a figure higher than for just about any armed group in the 20th century that you care to mention, anywhere, including the Old IRA.
“All sides committed unspeakable murders.”
Has any conflict in history been any different?
“It wasn’t murders that won the peace, it was people who wanted the killing and death to end.”
Why do you think the dockland bombing, for instance, took place? It was because Britain, and John Major, was dragging the feet in negotiations, by pandering to every unionist tactic conceivable to avoid having to share power. I outlined how the state responded to peaceful nationalism and challenged you to break down the detail of how we would have gotten to where we now are without the oppressed community fighting back. I’m still waiting on an answer. Britain, by it’s own admission, could not defeat the IRA. That is the only reason unionism was forced into powersharing.
“sinn fein had little or no electoral support prior to the ceasefire.”
A classic line. Which would make it appear to an alien just arrived from space, as though SF were operating in a normal state, on a level playing field with all other parties. What you neglect to consider is that SF wasn’t even legal for the first years of the troubles, and barely existed in any meaningful form for many years after. Not to mention that people were being terrorised out of joining or even helping SF due to a state assassination campaign against it’s members (Jim Murphy, Paul Best, Colm Mulgrew, Derek Highstead, Maire Drumm, Peter Corrigan, Jeff McKenna, Paddy Brady, John Davey, Tommy Casey ,Sam Marshall, Eddie Fullerton and many more again all murdered for being members of SF, countless more for having the temerity to be seen in public canvassing for SF. Added to that the state media censorship of it’s members who couldn’t put across their views on tv. Was that a normal scenario for a party to work in, against which it’s performances could be judged?
“If violence is the answer to the question of peace, why did Hume get a Nobel peace prize and not Adams or McGuinness?”
I neglected to add that I wouldn’t be that inclined to use the nobel peace prize as any sort of barometer for measuring contributions to peace. After all, it was also won by David Trimble, a man who, at every possible turn, tried to bring the Assembly down after signing up to the agreement. Not to mention awarded to Barack Obama after only 8 months in office, and was awarded for no other reason than that he was not George Bush. This despite the fact that he continues to oversee the running of Guantanamo Bay detention (internment) centre, the bombing of Lybia, the shoot-to-kill rather than capturing and putting on trial of Bin Laden, the drone operations in Pakistan, covert wars in Yemen and Somalia, a threefold increase in the number of US troops in Afghanistan, who was the first US President to authorize the assassination of a US citizen (Anwar al-Awlaki) etc etc. If your understanding of the conflict is dictated by what somebody ‘must have’ done since they won the nobel prize, then I pity you.
@Tap, what about the death and misery your type inflicted on people with your treachery and disloyalty, regardless if done through cowardice or just plain treachery you and your type have ALWAYS been the problem in this country.
Tap and his friends would have us all tipping our hats to them, evections have increased in the past few years, this makes you happy Tap yes, just like your predecessors in the RIC, Tap and his mates are the real danger, given their way we’ll all be living in ditches eating nothing but potatoes again, remember, these are the real f.u.c.k.e.r.s we need to watch
Isnt commonly spouted on here by f.g that the ira was nearly 50 % british intelligence personnel, sure they must have been the ones blowing up city centres and other economic targets.
Martin takes the interview in good humour by responding with a balaclava pun.
There is a difference between policy that is costed and ones that achievable
What I find utterly unacceptable about McGuinness and Sinn Fein is that they still want Irish people dead: they are working tirelessly north and south for the legalisation of abortion on demand. I’m a nationalist, but if I were living in Northern Ireland I could only vote for the genuinely pro-life DUP!
Suppose an enemy of the State wanted to diminish the Irish people and their influence in the world, what better way than to legalise and promote abortion? Look at the other EU countries where abortion is legal. Populations are plummeting. That’s what Sinn Fein, Labour and Fine Gael, helped by American billionaires, are lining up for Ireland. These people are so consumed by their ideological agendas that they are suffering from meme-poisoning, which removes the ability to actually THINK!
FFS…lets move on…
The vast majority ??? What about the countless bomb attacks on town and city centres
@Tom
Still doesn’t change the fact that the overwhelming majority of their operations were directed at British security force installations and personnel. If that were not the case, then how come, according to Lost Lives, around 75% of the IRA’s victims were participants in the conflict (a figure much higher than you’d find for just about any army in any conflict that you care to mention, including the Old IRA)? Most of the counties of Tyrone, Armagh & Fermanagh became no-go areas for British foot patrols and bases towards the end of the conflict, such was the frequency of attacks, as per the IRA strategy of creating ‘liberated zones’. Today you’ll no doubt find a hundred articles about an IRA bomb in a city centre, you’ll not read the same about the 100 others in the same month there were targeted at british bases where there were often no human casualties. Such attacks made up the vast majority of IRA operations.
Rubbish. The IRA did not care about civilian casualties. Don’t defend the indefensible and try to rewrite history.
That’s right powerabbey like when security forces ignored bomb warnings and even deliberately sent innocent civilians to where the bombs where. Because the security forces couldn’t win the war so they sacrificed innocent civilians to turn the people against the ira.
@Powerabbey
For an organisation that “didn’t care about civilians”, then would you describe it as a stroke of luck just, that their proportion of civilian victims was lower than for just about any armed group, in any armed conflict that you are to mention?
Where’s your evidence for that assertion or as I’m guessing are you simply talking more nonsense
I already told you. The book Lost Lives, which details the circumstances of every death of the conflict.
What about their goal of making northern Ireland ungovernable, the chaos they caused continously bombing town and city centres, you leave so much out teg
“Quick!! Change the subject!!!” sez Tom, to himself.
Give up Tom, you lost that one badly. You claimed to me they had a different goal
I can’t argue with it because I don’t know where the figures can from and I can’t access that info at moe, who’s the author ? Unbiased ? Hahaha
“who’s the author ? Unbiased ? Hahaha”
It’s “author”? FFS. It isn’t a book of opinions, It is a book of recorded evidence, chronologically, victim by victim. But since you ask, the author (who one one hand you admit to not knowing the identity of, but on the other, immediately describe as “unbiased”), is a Mr David McKitterick. A quick Wiki visit notes that he is a journalist who is “widely recognised for the scope of his knowledge and the balance of his reporting on Northern Ireland” and that “his many awards include the Christopher Ewart-Biggs Memorial Prize for the promotion of peace and understanding in Northern Ireland, 1989 and 2001″.
But sure you know best. He’s probably just an undercover provo, eh?
TEG
There are plenty of left wing economists to argue one way and right wing ones too.
In my opinion if you increase income tax you get less money
have your say