@Graham Manning: there is a temporary teacher shortage because they have to stay at home for five days if a member of their family contracts Covid not because they are leaving the profession over pay and conditions.

@bmul: yes but if you’re on a different scale then you never reach the same pay no matter how long you work. It’s about being on the same scale not the same point on the scale.

@Graham Manning: Older teachers shafted newer teachers, like older nurses shafted newer nurses, like older gardai shafted newer gardai. Don’t shaft us, shaft those coming behind us.

@Aedín: Those on the higher rate will retire in next 25 years, problem solved.

@Aedín: people working in factories for over 15/20 years have perks and pay newer staff will never see.

@Graham Manning: back in 2011 the government introduced a series of measures to cut the public service pay and pension bills. It is now quite common for people in some jobs, for various different reasons, to do the same job but not for the same pay. Some of this is due to automatic pay increaees every year and some because of different pay scales. Everyone who gets overtime gets it as a percentage of pay so since the year dot people working the same overtime hours have always got different remuneration. This is no different. If you get paid 40 euro an hour and do one hours overtime at 1.5 then you get 60 euro. If you get paid 50 euro an hour you get 75 euro. It is like this for everyone I know. The issue is a 10 year old issue when the terms were changed for new teachers as far as i know

@bmul: They do? I never knew that! Where?

@GrumpyAulFella: untrue twas union incompetence tbh but ok.

@bmul: yea but they have the opportunity to eventually get paid the same. Teachers don’t and it’s wrong.

@Sean Higgins: seeing as it predates Covid…bollocks.

@Gavin Tobin: nonsense but ok

@DK: nope cos pay will be equalised well before then.

@Niall Ó Cofaigh: not sure why you’re on about overtime? Not relevant to this. There was, now isn’t but will be again a single pay scale. Someone who follows the exact same career path for the same duration as me should get the same pay at the end of it.

@Graham Manning:
Yet another non-argument from the unions.
Was it not them who advised their members to vote for the two tier pay structure which is the subject of this article?

@Graham Manning: if you start in a factory now you will not get on the same pay scale or get the same benefits as some one who started pre 2008

@White Chapel: nope it wasn’t. Though it was their incompetence that led to it. Neither takes away from the fact that it’s wrong, needs to and will change.

@bmul: cos of time served. Not what being argued here.

@White Chapel:
I’ll take that back then.

All the same, it does seem strange to me that the Unions took no action at the time. Maybe this was because the changes didn’t have any effect on their existing members?

There are articles dating back as far as 2012 with Ruairi Quinn stating that pay (and allowances) would be restored, yet no actions there yet either.
How many have started teaching careers since 2012 believing this would happen?
Incompetence doesn’t even begin to describe it.
Not good enough from the government or the Unions who are representing these people

@White Chapel: the text the unions agreed to said it would have no effects on existing pay or something to that effect. They daftly didn’t cop that it obviously then could for newer members so complete incompetence on their behalf and duplicity by the gov. Unions have tried to rectify in the meantime. Given current circumstances industrial action could hardly be justified and there’s no way they’ll let it go. Members won’t allow it. So will come to a head again.

@Sean Higgins: they are leaving the profession in their droves over pay & conditions!! What planet are you on??

@Laura Ni Hearga: you misunderstand my post. The country is full of teachers that could step up. The teaching profession is what stops this from happening. Fear of setting a precedent for when this is all over. Allow more freedom of movement to get these teachers into classrooms. Give AMIs teaching council numbers for the duration of the pandemic if they need one. These are nothing but red tape anyway and are otherwise completely useless. Free up principals and vice principals. These people are fully trained teachers and can sub in their own schools but some would prefer to send a class home than return to the classroom. I’m not teacher bashing, I’m system bashing. I have huge respect for what the teachers are doing in our schools at this time. They need support through change.

@2thFairy: Mostly nonsense. Principals are a tad busy running schools. Why would any retired teacher return? Who’s gonna cover the Montessori teachers? Spot on re inspectors though.

@Laura Ni Hearga: agreed but it’s not a “vocation”. It’s a job.

@Declan Crowley: hehehehe…so much ignorance in one comment is almost impressive. Welcome to give it a go anytime.

@Declan Crowley: I live with 2 primary school teachers and believe me its no “cushie Job”. General opinion is that its a cushie job because schools close at 3pm but that’s not the end of a teachers working day… when do you think they prepare lessons (long term and short term planning), correct homework, prepare student reports, carry out other responsibilities. My two housemates work much longer hours than I do in the private sector. Second point, teachers have to answer to the school principle and deputy principle and also to the board of management. The problem with the teaching profession is that they are badly represented by their union and also by their government minister and also by people like you that don’t have a clue what they are talking about. If you feel its cushie then give it a go..

@Declan Crowley: sure Declan. You appear to be quite knowledgeable on the subject. I’ll take your word for it.

@2thFairy: apologies! Yes I agree!

@Jim Carolan: oh deckie isn’t looking for an honest chat. Just wants to have a go and spout off about something he knows was diddle all about.

@Jim Carolan: I think you should be a lot more subjective when discussing teachers unions. They get paid for 12 months work, when they only do 9. Great salaries, gold pensions and a lot, a lot of ‘ enhancements’ on top of salary. Fine but Bad Union – don’t think so. Nobody disputes the quality and influence of good teachers but looking at teaching from the parental side, different story. E.G How many teachers got sacked over the last 15 years – 4 I believe. Amount of ‘ training days off ‘ Ignoring parental requests for compromise. Always pursuing their own agendas and not those of the student. Go to a school and complain about say bullying etc and see the reaction. Complain about a teacher mistreating a child – ouch. How many good teachers can you remember from your schooldays. Why are private schools so much better with their results and it is not just class sizes. Even on here, the extreme division between teachers and non teachers and no opposing views taken on board

@Graham Manning: he wouldn’t last a day!!

@Declan Crowley: Not at all

@Barrycelona: how can you get some much easily googleable stuff wrong in one comment??? Tis almost impressive…almost.

@mr magoo: him trying would be feckin funny though.

@Tom: Thats alot of overtime!!! €€€€€€€€€€

@Tom: So, you signed up for it.

@Graham Manning: Bring in teachers from eg Latvia, Poland, India who would be much more enthusiastic and would just get on with the job without constantly moaning. However teaching in Ireland is a closed shop. Where would we be without these workers in the service and health industry?

@Jim Connolly: hehehehe…off ya go. See how that works out for you.

@Jim Connolly: Jim’s a troll. He literally posts the same quality content on any education post.

@Graham Manning: great idea! Why don’t we do the same with doctors, nurses and Gardaí? In fact let’s put all civil servants on €12 an hour, because you’ve obviously thought this one through …

@Jim Connolly: How would we pay for our private schools?

@C: aw, unsuccessful in school?

@Michael Purcell: eh…ya get how that wasn’t my suggestion, right?

@C: agreed, it is.

@C: because they have no unions to work on their behalf