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AS I STOOD on Occupied Dame Street for the seventh in a series of remarkable days, a grandmotherly woman approached me as she passed by and said, “Aren’t you very good, now, for camping out here all night, but why are you down here?” Or words to that effect.
At first I was taken aback, “Madam,” I thought, but of course never said, “I slept in my bed last night, I had a shower this morning, I ironed my shirt before coming here today. Do I look like I’ve been camping?” My dislike of camping is rivaled only by my love of ironing, I take it very seriously indeed – I even brought a travel iron with me to Burning Man.
But her question gave me pause, and while my reply was hopefully better than “hurrrungh-capitalism-bad” after seven days of answering it, it did make me think that today would be a good day to try and properly articulate my reasons for participating in #OccupyDameStreet with something more substantial than a media-rich and content-free soundbite.
While the details of my life may indeed be inconsequential, a bit of background context here may be helpful. Starting from first principles I must acknowledge the sheer random good fortune of being born a white male in Western Europe, with all the access to education and health care that this entails. While I may have seized every opportunity life has presented, an accident of birth gave me access to more of these opportunities than most of my fellow global citizens will ever know.
I was fortunate enough to go to University, though in the days before “free” fees, and so worked full-time in retail throughout. After graduating I, like so many others in the late nineties, ended up working in a call centre (there not being too many jobs on the market for Consulting Theologians), and over the next ten years I worked in a succession of managerial roles in the Communications and Internet industries in Ireland and America, before striking out on my own to advise early-stage Start-Ups on strategic planning. I am a Company Director, the proud owner of a ridiculous mortgage and am currently languishing in the wrong end of my thirties.
If this all sounds like the introduction to someone on Dragon’s Den (or the start of their Presidential campaign), that is the impression I’m going for here. I want you to understand that I am no practitioner of class warfare, I do not see things in terms of workers and bosses, I am no dreadlocked New Ageist or juggling trustafarian, and, as I believe I have mentioned before, I detest drumming circles. On paper I am the very model of a modern Celtic Tiger cub, and yet here I am, on Occupied Dame Street, every day since this began for up to sixteen hours a day.
Everything for me revolves around the ideas of social justice and equality. There is a vast imbalance in this world, where the wealth of nations are not shared equally amongst the citizenry, with the richest 1% of the population controlling a disproportionate amount of this wealth, and those on the margins paying a higher price for survival than can ever be morally justified. I do not believe in discouraging people from working hard and making the best of what they have, but I do believe that there is certain level of comfort and security that can be reached beyond which further accumulation of wealth is not only unnecessary, it is obscene. The policies of successive Governments in this country have been aimed at not only supporting such obscenity, but actively rewarding it, and as a result the gap between the most privileged in our society and the majority of the population is greater now than at any time in our nation’s brief history.
This inequality is often justified as the natural consequence of Capitalism, that those who work hard will reap the benefits and those who do not prosper are lazy. But the events of recent years have highlighted how the economic system is stacked in the favour of a tiny minority of people, rewarding risk rather than effort and cushioning their spectacular failures with the lives of the heedfully industrious. The gains of the 1% were protected from the masses by tax loopholes and tax havens, but their failures have been all too eagerly shared with the 99% of the population who had no involvement in these doomed enterprises, stood to gain no reward from their success, and now are burdened with €25,000 of debt for every man, woman and child in this country.
The mechanism by which this 1% enriches themselves while impoverishing the nation is that which passes for our Parliamentary Democracy. Ireland is a very small country and we have a remarkably high level of public representation; with a population of just under 4.6 million, we have 166 elected TDs in the Dáil, each TD representing approximately 27,600 constituents. A UK MP represents roughly three times as many constituents as their Dáil counterpart, a French Député four times, and a US Congressperson over twenty-five times as many. Despite the apparent closeness of our Deputies to the electorate, the level of true Democracy is negligible.
The Party Whip system ensures that most TDs are, by and large, just seat warmers, wheeled in to vote and then let go again to spend the day sending form letters to constituents claiming credit for work the County Council does, or auto-dialing Reality Shows. Debate in the Dáil is meaningless as the outcome of every vote is a foregone conclusion and the cynicism of the system is shown each time the camera switches from a tight shot to wide angle and reveals only three bodies in the seats behind the Party Leaders, the rest of the chamber empty. The dynastic nature of Irish politics means that those seats are handed down from father to son, or husband to wife, and the gender imbalance is an embarrassment to us all.
The Seanad is an unelected joke, a holding pen for those rejected by the electorate until sufficient time has passed that old sins are forgiven and they can have another tilt at the Dáil. The citizenry are prevented from nominating their own Presidential candidates, suggesting their own laws, or even proposing changes to the Constitution, the document that is supposed to bind the nation together with a set of agreed upon principles on how we wish to live with one another. At every stage of the political process the citizenry are excluded, bar one, and once elected the Government then becomes unaccountable for up to five years, free to wreak whatever havoc they may wish and then walk away without facing the consequences of their actions, pensions intact while the nation sinks under a ocean of misappropriated private debt.
I have educated myself, worked all my life since I was able, for others and now myself. I moved abroad and yet came back when I realised I could not bear to live elsewhere, bringing knowledge, skills and, in the subsequent four years, a hundred jobs back with me and now have dedicated my time to helping others create solid and sustainable employment opportunities that will themselves spawn further opportunities. I have paid my taxes and asked no accountant to find me loopholes, and I have voted in every referendum, and every local, national, European and Presidential election that I was entitled to and present for since the day I turned eighteen. I have food on my table, a roof over my head and a bed to sleep in at night, all the result of my own hard work.
And yet I lie awake at night painfully aware that for all these things that I am thankful for, there are so many more of my fellow citizens who go without, and that they go without so that those who hold themselves as our economic elite can enjoy a wealth and privilege that is staggeringly obscene.
That is why I am here. That is why I am on Dame Street. That is why I am proud to call myself one of the 99 per cent.
David Johnson writes at boomingback.org, where this post first appeared.
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Direct democracy is a must.
On the day that it’s announced that 32 children in care have died, there can be no doubt that the state and political establishment as it exists is no longer fit for purpose and needs to be radically reformed. Sooner the better.
35 children Sean
Fantastic article, honest and educated. Being out in support of those more unfortunate than yourself is a vital element to the occupation…
And this is an excellently-phrased humble acknowledgement of the fortunate position we are in having been born in this country:
“Starting from first principles I must acknowledge the sheer random good fortune of being born a white male in Western Europe, with all the access to education and health care that this entails. While I may have seized every opportunity life has presented, an accident of birth gave me access to more of these opportunities than most of my fellow global citizens will ever know.”
Fair play
Brilliant.
Tom and Paul. It’s great to hear some fresh ideas. Thanks. I’m a complete knuckle dragger when it comes to the world of international finance but even i can see that the current system has not just failed, but failed spectacularly! Just reading about Goldman Sachs involvement in the destruction of Greece. Shocking!
Excellent article, very well written and insightful…
People moan about these protesters not offering ‘solutions’…
But that kind of misses the point….
You don’t need to have ‘solutions’ to an issue in order to be upset. outraged and affected by its sheer injustice…
Sometimes, indignation alone is enough…
I wonder if the journal will now also post an article that dissagrees with the #occupy movement. You know, just for balance?
Let me know if you need someone to write it.
Please write one anyway whether The Journal are interested in publishing or not, I’d be interested in reading an alternative view.
The best posting I’ve read about the Occupy movement is over at Cracked.com:
http://www.cracked.com/blog/3-types-wall-street-protesters-hurting-their-own-cause/
@James This will give you a bit of an idea where I stand on all this: http://evertb.wordpress.com/2011/10/09/occupymymind/
@james, i just read the article you posted, nicely written, but while I am all for a balanced view of the situation you don’t offer much more details of change in that article than the occupy crowd do. While they are attacking the rich you are attacking the "system", mainly government structure , alot of "we need" in the article. Sounds pretty much the same as the rest.
Maybe post a more specific plan and then the OccupyX crowd may listen to you instead of shouting random 1%/99% liners.
Dont get me wrong I agree with most of what you are saying, i just thought it was worth pointing out.
Also I think you paint an image of the protectors being fairly ignorant of the bigger picture. When in actual fact some of the things they are against are worthy of being attacked.
My problem with this whole thing is that they are trying to model it off the Arab spring, but the problem is, the Arab spring 1: had far less middle class, and 2:had alot less complex demands.
*protestors not protectors
I meant @evert, sorry for confusion
Yours is hardly a manifesto, Evert, more like a potshot at a handful of cherrypicked bugbears. Where do you think your “People’s Movement” will rise from?
@Nivag And I need a fully written manifest before I can be critical?
Really…
@Evert Do the occupiers need a full manifesto before they protest? You get me?
@adrian de cleir you say the occupy crowd are “attacking the rich”, this just shows how little you understand whats going on here, these people are protesting because they want the separation of state and business, they also want the corporations to stick to their own rule of ‘sink or swim’ and not be bailed out to the cost of ordinary peoples homes and livelihoods, how exactly do you equate this with “attacking the rich”? people wanting to be rewarded a fair proportion of their own labour is ‘attacking the rich’? please explain yourself
@Nivag Not a complete manifesto but at least a number of actual goals and suggestions on how to achieve them. All i’ve seen so far are wooly statements.
its not about attacking the rich, its about defending ourselves from the rich, to quote warren buffet -one of the wortlds richest people ““There’s class warfare, all right,” Mr. Buffett said, “but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.”
@evert u only heard wooly statements because you arent able to or dont want to listen, there is one unifying belief ‘we are the 99% thats are no longer willing to tolerate the greed of the 1%’ and there is one overall goal “the separation of business and state, to make the people more important then the corporations”, if you had recently lost your business,house, job, family you might be able to understand, if any of these things happened to you and you still dont understand then its pointless to try and convince you
@paul I have spent the last three weeks asking people involved in the #occupy protests about what they want. The replies have been unforthcoming, vague or just plain hostile. Your comment about “the separation of state and business” is about the clearest demand I’ve heard in that time. However I have doubts about the sincerity of this claims as the protesters do indeed want “business” the have less influence on the state but at the same time seem to support a “big government” with increased influence and power over “business”. let alone over peoples private lives.
I also refute the much flaunted “99%” claim as utter rubbish. Most of the wealth on the planet might indeed lie with 1% of the population but that does not mean that the other 99% supports these protests and their political leaning.
You’ve blogged YOUR woolly statements, Evert. The occupiers are out together making discussing theirs.
Whose are likely to be refined more quickly? Whose are likely to garner the most attention? Whose are more likely to be acted upon?
Easy to be a desktop critic isn’t it ;-)
theres your danger right there Evert, the start of every revolution is dismissed and laughed at by conservatives all throughout history, this has been simmering for the last 2 years all over the world, its obviously going to be different demands from different groups in different countries but the 2 unifying factors hold the world over, i dont know where you got this idea of ‘big government’ support, my reading of it is that at least a large minority in this country want a complete parliamentary system change, maybe it hasnt all been focused into the one clear point that you cant easily recognise, but maybe you can recognise this, a growing number of people from all classes and backgrounds, while separated by any number of different beliefs, are coming together to demand a change to a system that puts business before society, people are losing tolerance for those that destroy others livelihoods and then ride off into the sunset with bags of money, is that too hard for you to understand?
Evert its not about controlling business, its about putting a stop to business controlling government
@nivag My position on these issues and my suggested solutions have been in the public domain for a very long time.
My opinion has been heard ad nauseum and I am far from a “desktop critic”.
I suggest you do some research before you start making accusations.
@Evert i have shared your link, i agree with some of what you say but i find you are ignoring the obvious control that big business has over governments all over the world, that such a small minority exert so much influence in supposedly democratic countries is the injustice the occupiers are protesting against. At the moment the occupy Dame Street crowd may be made out of a ‘type’ that you judge as those with a misplaced sense of entitlement, and i say may in its broadest terms, i am pointing out your perception of it. This is how the occupy Wall Street started, but now it has thousands of middle class professionals etc supporting it. I hope the Irsh follow this example. Despite the fact that YOU cannot find consensus or a unity of purpose doesnt mean it isnt there. I hope at the very least we can force recognition and negotiation.
@Evert Pfffft if your positions and suggested solutions have been out there that long then perhaps they should have evolved byond the “woolly” notions in the final paragraph of the link you posted, after all, that is the reference which you directed us too. And call me an oddball but I don’t run a full background check on every Tom, Dick and Harry who posts comments on the internet.
Further, these changes to society you speak of, I’m not certain how you expect them to come about. You think everyone will wake up one morning and jointly realise that there is massive inequality and that there is an acceleration of wealth toward capital and away from labour? Doesn’t happen like that. People need to see these things, discuss them and understand them. Don’t you think that the Occupy movement has increased awareness of the widening inequalities in our societies?
By far the best article I’ve read on The Journal. He is to be admired. If Ireland had more people like this we’d be a lot better off. We are a nation of couch complainers. We feel we can’t take action and be considered upstanding citizens at the same time.
Great article, as a 30 something that’s benefited from born in the right place at the right time I completely empathise. Democracy in Ireland is an oxymoron and the Senate is a talking shop.
So are you advocating a form of direct democracy like Switzerland?
That’s exactly what we need a Swiss style participatory democracy. Not the half arsed so called representative system we have. BUT that would be a major threat to the Europhiles. Expect any moves in the Swiss direction to be attacked vigourously by the usual media suspects.
What amazes me in this whole global fiasco is the total disregard for the wealthy. Bar those who inherited vast amounts of money, most wealthy people worked both hard and wisely, playing a system not created by them. Some studied, some set up businesses based on there own merit. Everyone on the planet either rich or poor or ‘middle class’ is aware and has been for a long time that the system is corrupt and wrong. The world is made up of employees and employers. Imagine a world with no employers, ie the people with the drive and imagination to create a market for themselves and compete to bring prices down and find innovative ways to create wealth- now imagine a world with no employees, ie. those satisfied to work for a wage, with no risks, a paycheque whether they gave a 100 percent or not and with a certain distain for they’re employer who they nearly always assume does nothing and gets lots of money for it. I guarantee the employers would survive and go back to basics, where the employees would be the ones to moan about no work or money and how unfair things are instead of gettting up off there asses and doing what most employers did in the first place- HARD WORK. My heart absolutely goes out to those who have lost homes or jobs however people do not seem to realise that when you take a job you are completely relying on someone else to work hard and smart and make all the right decisions and take all the risks for your benefit- ask yourself would you do the same for them. The trouble is, and with the risk of generalising, the ones who give a 100 percent are usually the employer. We are all responsible for ourselves at the end of the day. I never heard any construction workers complaining when they were building the apartments for the developers, that are now lying vacant. In fact the welfare they are now recieving is coming from the taxes they paid and the wealthy are now continuing to pay. As for multinational faceless corporations, they pay more taxes, employ more people and generate they’re own mini economies. Coca cola was originally concocted in a bathtub by one man for medicinal purposes and his effort and ingenuity made it the sucessfull brand it is today. One man. This recession is the best thing that ever happened and its the people who learn from it and re-evaluate whats important that will be the next millionaires. I personally am working my ass off to build my business up. I came back form australia 14 months ago not realising how bad the economy was and got the shock of my life. I sent cv after cv out, was lucky if I got a response. I then said, fuck this, if I want money and get back to the days when I didnt have to save to go out on a friday night, I’m going to have to do it myself. I delivered leaflets, I joined networking groups, I did courses, I begged borrowed and stole to buy a van, I rang every friend, family member and everyone I could think of and told them what I could do. Its been 14 months and I’m makin a wage, not a fortune but I’m contributing to the economy. It wasnt easy and some times I literally ate noodles for dinner but when I’m wealthy if some one comes to me complaining about the economy and how unfair it is i know what I’ll do- I’ll give them a job and they can help make me richer while I spend my time doing charity work. I’m workin hard to be one of the 1 percent and while the 99 percent are complaining I’m out delivering leaflets. If the hospitals were run by business men they’d be making a profit. If you want to keep the government honest pay them minimum wage. This whole fairness and equality shit is called communism- And I can guarantee that doesn’t work. Fairness is like time, its a human perception. It makes absolutely no difference to any other lifeform on the planet, and the only ones it does, are the ones we’re fucking wiping out. Should we not learn something from this. Democracy is bollox, once you vote them in you’ve no control whatsoever. They get to decide on what we vote on for fucks sake. I’d rather a dictatorship where Michael O’leary was running the country. At least then we’d still be getting fucked over but we’d be the only country not in a recession.
If by some miracle you’ve manged to read my whole rant then your a fuckin eejit cause you should have spent the time accumulating wealth. I’m just writing this in my off-time where I like to stir shit up.
take back our natural resourses and leave europe now,because the road we are heading down now will only get worse.our fishing rights were sold for 6 billion.make it worth while for the farmer to grow produce and supply the local towns and villages.we never had the power of our own money,the punt was regulated by the british.freedom,what freedom,all they done in 1921 was change the flags.YOU the citizen of this island need to stand up and be counted or your children and grandchildern will pay a heavy price.
Well written David. Probably one of the best, if not the best articles I have read on this site. You should sent a copy to all 166 gobs***** in Dail Eireann. Well done.
I like the manner in how you talk. Though I do not hear solutions. There is a long list of those complaining. The state of politics in this country is no surprise. A total shift in thinking is required. Reduce the margin levels of your business. Higher more people. Offer 3 day week for those who want it. Offer flexible working hours within your business. Incentive entrepreneurial ideas within your business that are outside of your core business. Support the people in your company. Offer increased help and resource for mothers in your company. Transform every single thing that you have ever done. Lead from the front. You will be amazed. Complaining changes nothing.
‘Reduce profit margins, higher more people, offer three day weeks’
Are you working for the Greek Civil Service? Because you are CERTAINLY not running your own business!
And if you are it won’t be for long!
@danyl, we have solutions staring us in the face, all we have to do is look to Iceland, they literally ran their corrupt political class out of office, they let the banks fail, they refused to pay the immoral debt the world was trying to foist on them, they jailed the ones responsible and they rewrote their constitution giving everyone in the country a say about what went into it, how about them solutions?
He was not writing an epic, just simply telling his story , I am sure there is a lot more to this man than the few paragraphs highlight… It was well written and I only wish there were more like him in the 99% but sadly within the 99% we have 60% sheep and in bred boggers ( I am a country man) whomhave absolutely no clue what’s happening and just moan and grumble, I am by nature optimistic but by Jesus , if you have heard what I have heard in the small village I am sadly residing , you toes would curl.. They have no iota about the upcoming referenda and that ignorance to shift the power to the executive as opposed to the judiciary, then were all F*****D
Here’s a solution. Abandon the interest-bearing debt-based monetary system and instead adopt a value-based currency. This value-based currency doesn’t have to be based on precious metals, in fact it is better if it is not. It can have its value fixed by a basket of staple human needs, or a theoretical unit of labour. What matters is that its value is derived from something that can’t easily be manipulated by speculators.
Side by side with this value-based currency we could also prohibit banks from creating the money they lend out of thin air (no, they don’t loan you Mrs Jones’ life savings, they create money out of nothing using the fractional reserve system).
Such moves have, in the past, turned economies around literally overnight. However, those who issue the worthless debt-based currency have a vested interest in maintaining their unbelievable power.
@Tom Sullivan what you are talking about is inevitable, a currency based on the intrinsic value of the countrys’ produce (including services and industry), it should always have been that way, by maintaining a false value on gold we play right into the speculators hands
Paul, at the moment our currency is not value based, not even on the value of gold. It is debt-based. If as Euro-zone states were ever to pay back our national debts in their entirety, then not one single euro would be in circulation. Our debt is the money in our pockets and those of others.
By the way, would the thee people who voted my previous comment down care to throw their 2 cents in (so to speak)? Do you favour being perpetually indebted to private central banks who do nothing except enter figures into computers or print fancy pieces of paper? Do you agree than our main street banks should be allowed to continue to conjure money out of nowhere and become aggressive and belligerent when some poor unfortunate is unable to repay that phantom money?
He went to burning man. Not your average suit wearing one percenter.
To Paul Lanigan
Better still to use spell check before you post your wisdom ! :0)
OMGz! A guys in a suit supports #Occupy! How incredibly relevant!
I really don;t like how this article seems to suggest that having dreadlocks somehow excludes you from being a businessman or knowing what the hell you’re talking about.
Also that wearing a suit somehow makes you more qualified to speak about governance and finance issues.
Excellent piece David.
To me in this piece you describe a regular Irish Person, not shy of hard work, willing to go that extra mile, obviously working to better themselves but happy to participate in the betterment of all. We have been abused mistreated and robbed by those who were elected to guide protect and grow our country. They have even managed to reach out to our children and grandchildren and ruin their prospects all in this drive to support that exclusive 1%.
It really is time for the 99% to dismiss these perpetrators as being “No Longer Needed” by this country, take back our country, our pride, our self respect and our futures, and that of our children & grandchildren.
Who are the ‘exclusive 1%’ ?
very well written, any chance of a job?
Paul I think you are misunderstanding me. I agree with what you are proposing. I just dont think everyone is going to change all of a sudden.
Are you telling me that there are not people who have waited for house prices to drop even further before scooping up a bargain at everyones elses expense.
No matter what system is in place, people will find a way to corrupt or loophole the system. The banks would have been bought out by even bigger banks- more than likely not irish banks which would reduce competitiveness and lead to monopoly.
In my ‘rant’ I suggested you were a tree hugger, I was merely suggesting that your solutions are not feasable due to the rose tinted glasses by which you view the people of this country/world.
To qoute you’ capitilism will seek out any money making oppurtunity’ does this statement itself not have a hidden message. human nature is to want more.
There is a reason people are working class, middle class and upper class.
Should we not be encouraging the low earners to earn more instead of promoting laziness. as you said your self countries with a larger percent of middle class are better.
Why tax high earners more, what difference would it make, They would only find ways to earn more or leave the country or come up with even more ingenius ways to dodge the tax man. If anything we should tax them less allowing them to invest there money or give them more to spend in the economy. What is the point of taxing them if they’re only one percent of the people. The rich pay more tax than anyone. True?
At the moment the taxman is taking money out of the economy. The banks are only giving loans to the very safe bets- Guess who they are Paul.
I would be very curious as to your response. Has anything I have said been untrue?
If you do decide to respond, do me a favour- dont twist my words- we all know the glass can be half empty or half full, you seem to find a negative way to rephrase what people say. please read what i am saying twice- i dont disagree with your philosophies i just think they are unrealistic given the nature of people. most people are honest but they will look after they’re families and themselves first.
i dont think this ‘revolution’ is going to be a success. The people your fighting don’t care. What really pisses me off is the social welfare system. Granted it is based on an ideal situation but there is a large amount of thieves in those q’s also. there should be a massive gap between minimum wage and the dole.
I look forward to your response if you can actually respond to the point i have made rather than go into one of your evasive rants :)
Really enjoyed your article David. I know that you don’t have any answers but the establishment including governments, bankers, stock brokers and economists don’t have any answers either. But it takes a brave man to speak your truth like you have. Don’t mind that there are still knockers. Change is a little bit scary. Bring it on…
reada i know you mean well but economics is based on people. we are talking evolution not revolution. it will not happen in our lifetime
‘change’ is the understatement of the year.
Really excellent. Inspiring.
Spot on David, can I subscribe to your magazine???
I heaved my way through it until I hit that word -EQUALITY. Equality what? Equality in height, weight, clothing, shares, lifespan, penis size? It has to be the most turgid thought killer of a word in the english lexicon. Whoever utters it never troubles themselves to define what it is they mean by it and whoever reads it ends up imposing their own, no doubt utterly different, interpretation on it.
Your comment is inequitable.
an obvious troll, just because you dont recognise or understand equality doesnt mean you dont deserve it
I think obviously equality of opportunity. That hardly needs explaining.
@Paul_Nelson It would help if you could explain what it is that I don’t want because I don’t know. What has to be equalized for us to reach the happy state of “Equality” everyone is banging on about?
where everyone is entitled to the same rights and opportunities despite the accident of birth, its simplicity itself, if you cant grasp this then i pity you sir, but i really pity anyone you might ever have authority over
@ JSLeFanu
See above comments
Well @Paul_Nelson that’s just not going to happen, ever! Equal before the law, yes. But equal despite accidents of birth, no, not ever. By accident of birth I had a lot more opportunity than most people born in Dakar but similarly a lot less opportunity than had I been born in Palo Alto. That’s just a given, you cannot legislate such equality, it’s an impossibility.
Really could you not make your point without personal comments of this nature: “but i really pity anyone you might ever have authority over” Such a tendency towards making the abstract personal, in a nasty way, suggests that you’re the one should be kept away from being in a position of any authority over others. For the record the last time I had a reasonable clatter of people under me, 40+, was for a multinational with a significant number of outlets in the UK and Ireland and for 5 years out of six I had the lowest staff turnover in these islands. Then again that info is about as relevant to this thread as your abuse i.e. none.
jsle fanu my points are every bit as relevant as yours, i was simply pointing out that someone that has no grasp of equality should never be in a postion of authority, this is my opinion, you can read that as personal abuse all you want, but by the same token you are attacking me and so you are a hypocrite, your boast about lowest turnover of staff could be interpreted in many ways, i think i’ll interpret it as that you didnt have the bottle to fire anyone
I agree with everything that is said about the political system but there are some points about the economy that worry me.
‘ There is a vast imbalance in this world, where the wealth of nations are not shared equally amongst the citizenry ‘
Wealth shared equally is one of the main ideas of communism and so are you advocating communism??? I certainly hope not.
Oh and can someone outline who exactly the 1% are?
Orion leave the isms back in the 80′s it’s time for some new political thinking.
This has noting to do with communism what so ever.
This is about trying to create a more fair and equal world where opportunity to progress is available to anyone and not a select few who happen to be in the business of inventing money
okay william bring back the barter system. PS if they want to get rid of the black market all transactions should be made by debit cards. seriously, if someone can tells me why this hasnt been done already I’ll give them a hundred grand. Cash.
@ Nial carson
I agree that its time for some new political thinking, but sharing wealth equally among everyone just does not work, end of. Why would I put any effort into working if I was guaranteed the same amount of money as everyone else, whether they work or not. It just would not work. I would leave this country if the government take excessive amounts of money from wealthy people, most wealthy people worked hard for it, I know there are people who work hard for their entire life and are still poor, but you can’t penalise the ones who are successful just for the benefit of those who are not.
They don’t all have to be paid the same, it’s just that the gap is insane..
Narrow the gap, let there be differences in wages, but don’t have people earning so little in a 40 hour week that they can barely afford to live – while the dude who doesn’t even have to go to work because he’s the head honcho is spending what the small time Joe earns in a week on eating out one night..
Communism wouldn’t work because just like all the other isms they ignore the fact that 4-6% of the population are essential psychopaths (as in, they have brain damage, they can’t be fixed), of these only about a third are violent types, the others are known as "ordinary psychopaths". These guys are charmers and lack skill, so they tend to go for jobs that grant them power and only require them to be able to talk the talk..
They get into power pretty easily, and have brought down the isms left right and centre (and if they get into power, there’s about 25% of the population particularly susceptible to their manipulation).. So as pointed out above, the isms are over. It’s time we tried something better, only this time, we need to factor in those who are incapable of compassion and obsessed with power.
How about ensuring the wealthy people pay their fair share, instead of many of them paying less than the PAYE tax slaves as is now the case? I would institute a single low tax rate (not the graduated system we now have) that NOBODY can evade paying.
@Orion, only the most hardcore communists are suggesting everyone should earn the same or be entitled to the same amount no matter what the effort or ability, its about the share of your own labour, that share has been consistantly getting smaller over the last few decades, so now we are at the point where we cant afford to but the good we create, its a ludicrous system, and IF the government tries to fairly tax the wealthy, because the country porovides both the labour and the markets that create the opportunity to become rich, and then you leave, good riddance
*buy the goods
you are the only person who actually seems to have a clue. fair play. i just realised you cant thubs up someone twice cause i tried to with you. i am truly amazed that they dont have a ‘how the world actually works’ class on the curriculum.
@Orion – who are the 1% you ask? The executives/management of corporations, financial professionals, medical profession and lawyers account for 70% of that 1%. http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/231983/20111016/mother-jones-who-are-the-1.htm
The key issue is the massive disparity between the stagnation of wages of ordinary workers and top executives over the past 30 years or so. In 1950, top executives earned 24 times the average worker’s pay but by 2009 it was 550 times.
@ MarkandAnna Dublin
Thank you for answering my question rather than just giving me a thumbs down! :)
Anyway those figures are very flawed,
You say the top executives in 2009 are paid 550 times the average worker’s wage? Thats not true, the average hourly earnings of workers (Excluding irregular bonuses) is â
@BJ all I am proposing is the idea that business does not necessarily have to
be all about squeezing the most out of staff to get maximum profits. Where do the profits go. A bigger house for the owner of the business. Bigger everything. More being the insatiable mouth that can never be fed. It is this idea of MORE that drives all greed. Fear of lack can only be overcome by having more. And this us what drives this 1%. All I am saying is the possibility that business owners look at how they can promote better lives for their staff. Offering a three day week and paying only for those three days can create a position for someone else. Some would be gappynto take up that chance. This isn’t about rewarding laziness. It is about transforming the idea that only the owner makes loads of money. It also puts out the suggestion that instead of making 15% net profit. Make 14% and invest that 1% in something totally different. I am not a big believer in government changing anything and feel it is business owners who can have the biggest impact. This is where people spend most of their lives. Anyways you are probably right, I should sell my business now ;)
are you having a laugh, danyl. i dont even know where to start. first of all you want to take away the owners insentive by reducing profit, he may aswell work for someone else. second of all you want him to compete with companies making 20percent profit when he is making ten.How long before they use they’re profit to drive him out of the market. third of all YOU are in the 1 percent. your laptop would feed a family in ethiopia for a year. fourth if you split a 40 hour week between 2 staff a lot less tax is paid putting strain on thte economy. trust me if 50 percent of people are paid for 40 hours it works out better than 100pc of people paid for 20hrs.100pc of people cant survive on 20hrs. business owners are what are keeping the economy going. what we need is more people to set up businesses, not rely on those already there. they’ve done they’re bit already. i hope you haven been involved in any protests cause you clearly need to go back to the drawing board. The wealthy peoples greed is what will ge us out of this shit. they love money and love when your making them profits. recession is bad business.
Great article, David. Thank you.
Also, is this you https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2561064592918&set=a.2561051192583.2151870.1443173639&type=1&theater ?
While I’ve no problem with occupy Dame St or locally Occupy Eyre Sq, I welcome public protest in action. I wish that both groups would stop seeking donations (duvets/food/supplies) and instead donate anything that comes their way to Homeless shelters/hostels or street sleepers who are isolated and in genuine need.
If you choose to stay out & protest then do so, but by seeking supplies you’re limiting donations to the likes of VdeP/Cope (galway) etc.
Women didn’t get the vote in rich Switzerland until 1967.
The robotic Swiss males deemed women to be happy without a vote.
Direct democracy, Swiss style, is mob rule.
@ Tom Sullivan
What wealthy person is not paying their fair share of tax? (excluding people like bono)
As far as I am aware there are plenty of people who’ve been exposed as playing games to evade Capital Gains Tax, not to mention those who have been participating in Contract for Difference share tax-evasion.
@ MarkandAnna Dublin
Thank you for answering my question rather than just giving me a thumbs down! :)
Anyway those figures are very flawed,
You say the top executives in 2009 are paid 550 times the average worker’s wage? Thats not true, the average hourly earnings of workers (Excluding irregular bonuses) is â
Fair play to you
Agree with alot of what @ Rossa crowe has to say but also agree with most of what paul says, the only thing I dont agree with is taking a bigger chunk from the ‘rich’ there are very few people who are actually rich in Ireland at the moment, most of them have immense amounts of debt and should no longer be classed as rich for this reason! Who does that leave? The middle class, who have already been decimated in this recession, the idea of taxing the rich as a way out of a recession has never worked and never will!
And yet at the protest here and in Greece there was plenty of talk about taxing the rich. Of course in Greece’s case it would have been useful to actual collect taxes properly in the first place.
Is it just me or did my comment @MarkandAnna Dublin ‘ not come out properly?
Orion, if you are commenting using a smartphone you will encounter a problem. Unfortunately TheJournal.ie has a problem in reading the euro symbol from smartphones and similar devices. The euro symbol will simply appear as a random symbol (typically â) and all text after the symbol will not be displayed. Instead, try using E or simply write euro instead of the euro symbol. As far as I know they are working on it.
@ Tom Sullivan
Fair enough, But then you change the law, cut off the loopholes, dont punish people for taking advantage of the governments ignorance and stupidity. :)
Paul, I would imagine your a well educated man. As much as I would hate to make a laughable assumption, I dont see how you could possibly have a background in economics or business, when both are fundamently based on human nature, which is unchangable. Power from the begginning of time has always ruled the way. Be it strenght, money or religion. Power is not a variable it is a constant. In an equal world why should one man be taxed more than an another. Because of luck? At being born into the right family or country. There are plenty of wasters that come from good backgrounds and plenty of hardworkers from bad ones. Two people can have the same chances and oppurtunities and still lead very different lives. I would be very interested to know your views and possible solutions to this global crisis. Perhaps those who bought houses for 200k should give 100k to those who bought the same houses for 400k and even things out. I simply think this recession is a wake up call for the world, that to be honest the world needed. Although, I’m to young to remember the last recession are you really suprised to see it happen again. The next generation will make all the same mistakes, its human nature…
@rossa you claim to have read all my posts, it is quite clear that you have not, at no point do i advocate relieving the rich of all their money, i wholeheartedly believe that hard work and talent deserve reward, to suggest i support communism in itself shows your claim to have read my posts to be a complete lie, as i clearly state a strong distaste for it in an earlier post, what i do advocate is a bigger contribution from some of the top earners, i think you will find the vast majority of people agree with that, also you call me a ‘tree hugger’ ??? not in their wildest imaginations would anyone i know call me that, you are a million miles off the mark, and you claim i must have no education in economics, i claim that what you call economics is actually thieving manipulation by a different name, many of the worlds most prominent and well published economists advise exactly the same as what im saying, the bigger % of middle class in a country, the more prosperous, crime free and healthy it is. in this country its just grab what you can and fuck your neighbour
i have again already stated what i suggest for a solution, once again you prove you didnt read my posts, try look at my very first post for my idea of solutions, one thing i will say, if you insist on capitalism then let the epitome of capitalism i.e. the banks, sink or swim by their own rules, scaremongering tactics telling people there would be no banks and no money and all the people swallowed it, its was total crap, the banks would have folded and been bought out by competitors, back in business inside 2 weeks, capitalism by its nature will seek out ANY money making opportunity even if it proved to be risky in the past
Genuinely surprised that some people don’t seem to know they are advocating communism. Have a read of animal farm before you go any further and I dunno maybe read a history book.
There is so much rubbish in these comment I’m not sure where to start. I think we all can agree that something needs to be done. But this 1% stuff just doesn’t work here in Ireland. I hate to break it to some people but the rich are the ones who pay most of our taxes already. And taking away the incentives from the people who actually create the jobs is just nuts. The stated aims of the Dame Street via their 4 points are complete nonsense. For example how can you take back oil and gas you don’t have in the first place. Our biggest problem is not that we took on the bank debt or created NAMA, it’s the fact we’re spending 20 billion a year more then we have. Ultimately the banks and NAMA will be worth something, a large something but the money we spent overpaying social welfare and civil servants is just gone.
PAUL, i have had the misfortune of reading every comment you made so far on this discussion. I decided to read them all before passing judgement on what appears to be A someone who, I believe likes the sound of his own voice B someone who more than likely would argue for the sake of it and C someone who is so deluded that they are starting to believe they’re own BS. What you are suggesting is COMMUNISM. If you take away the insentive for the rich and wealthy to get wealthier then I fear that would bode very badly for those who just like to go to work and not worry about the profitability of they’re labour. Your arguements would be outstanding were we to live in a world where there is fairness and equality and money was valued based on its food, water or labour value. but we dont. however my treehugging friend that is not the way the world works because people are by nature are self centred and until this changes which i know your striving for, it will never be the case and can never be changed. unfortunetly, just like nature it is the survival of the fittest and it always will be. those who adapt will always be ten steps ahead. The only way to achieve what you want is if we all agree to get along and share and all obey the same rules and morals. Paul, thats what hitler wanted. its not going to happen. you need the rich, you need the poor and you need empathy i would fear a world where were all the same. If your efforts make no difference than what is the point. dont take away the point. this whole 1 percent-99 percent BS cracks me up. do a poll and if you get even 30 percent of people to agree with you i while eat my hat. The truly poor people of this world will not notice this change your proposing. it is only those with something to lose who care and if you’ve got something to lose then what are you complaining about in the first place.
lol ‘tree hugging friend’, you make so many wrong assumptions its completely laughable, rant on
I stopped reading after “good fortune of being born a white male in Western Europe, with all the access to education and health care that this entails.” Self-loathing Westerner strikes again. ZZZZZZ
Thanks for that @Brian explains where my message went :)
Basically I had done the maths and ‘MarkandAnna Dublin’ was trying to say that most top executives were earning E11,500 per hour!! Simply not true! and raises questions about the credibillity of the rest of her/his arguement.
well said David and fair play to you.
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