Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
AS PEOPLE GET set to vote in the general election tomorrow, we’re going to take a look at how the Irish voting system works.
In Ireland, all elections – Dáil, Seanad, presidential, European and local elections – are decided through proportional representation with a single transferable vote (PR-STV).
Voters indicate their first and subsequent choices for the candidates on the ballot paper by marking the relevant number in the box beside a person’s name. You indicate your first choice by writing ’1′ opposite that candidate and ’2′ opposite your second choice, and so on.
By doing so, you are instructing that your vote be transferred to your second preference if your first choice is either elected with a surplus of votes over the quota or is eliminated.
If your second choice is elected or eliminated, your vote may be transferred to your third choice, and so on.
You can order some or all candidates or stop at just one. If there’s someone you really DON’T want to see elected, it’s best to give preferences to everyone but them. As the count continues and the number of non-transferable votes add up, the number of votes required to be elected decreases.
How are the votes counted?
At the count centre, all the ballot papers are mixed and then sorted according to first preferences. Spoiled papers – which Citizens Information lists as those without an official stamp; those which do not indicate a clear choice, for example, if you have indicated number 1 twice on the paper; or if anything is written on the ballot paper by which the voter can be identified – are removed.
The quota, the minimum number of valid votes each candidate must get to be elected, is then calculated.
The Department of the Environment notes that in a three-seat constituency, for example, the quota is a quarter of the valid votes, plus one – only three candidates can get this number of votes. In a four-seater, the quota is a fifth of the valid votes, plus one, and so on.
Surplus votes
If a candidate receives more than the quota on any count, the surplus votes are transferred to the remaining candidates in proportion to the next available preferences indicated by voters.
Citizens Information has given this breakdown as an example:
If candidate A receives 900 votes more than the quota on the first count and, on examining their votes, it is found that 30% of these have next available preferences for candidate B, then candidate B does not get 30% of all candidate A’s votes, candidate B gets 30% of A’s surplus, that is, 270 votes (30% of 900).
Where a candidate is elected at the second count or a later one, only the votes that brought them over the quota are examined in the surplus distribution – i.e. the votes last transferred to the elected candidate.
The manner in which the surplus is distributed depends on whether the number of transferable papers is greater than, less than or equal to the surplus. You can read more about that here.
If two or more candidates exceed the quota at the same time, the larger surplus is distributed first. The surplus must be distributed if it can elect a candidate or save the lowest candidate from elimination or qualify a candidate to recoup their election expenses or deposit.
Candidates at most elections can recoup their election expenses (up to a maximum of €8,700 at a Dáil election), provided the number of votes they receive at the count exceeds one quarter of the quota.
The last seat can be filled either by a candidate exceeding the quota or being elected without reaching the quota because it is clear that they are ultimately going to be elected.
Candidates can ask for a recount of a particular count or of the entire count. More information on the process is available here.
Pros and cons
Some people argue the PR-STV system is too candidate-focused and leads to localism – i.e. TDs focusing on issues in their local area, rather than pursuing a national vision.
A 2011 Oireachtas report found that this might deter nationally-minded individuals from entering politics, as well as poor national planning “as legislators clamour to deliver services to their own areas”.
However, the report also notes there are “equally profound problems with the likely alternatives to PR-STV”, stating:
If local accountability is reduced, a clearly articulated ‘national interest’ to which parliamentarians are accountable is needed.
It has been argued the current system leads to more variety for voters – i.e. TDs being returned from a number of parties. However, in constituencies that elect fewer TDs, it can be very difficult for smaller parties to gain a significant foothold.
As a result of PR-STV, coalition governments are very common in Ireland. The last single party government here was the 1987-89 Fianna Fáil administration.
First past the post
PR-STV is relatively unique, Ireland and Malta are the only countries to use it.
The first past the post system in single-seat constituencies is the second most popular voting system in the world. It’s used in the UK, US, India and Canada.
The candidate with the most votes in each constituency becomes an MP. All other votes are disregarded. This type of voting is also known as single member plurality, simple majority voting or plurality voting.
The Oireachtas report mentioned above also looked into various other types of voting, such as alternative or preferential voting, and the closed list system. You can read more information about them here.
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
We should invest in an E voting system. Sure what’s the worst that can happen.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/us-election/9659694/US-election-2012-voting-machine-changes-vote-for-Barack-Obama-to-Mitt-Romney.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdpGd74DrBM
That is why and last time they tried that here it cost us millions…
I think he was being sarcastic
Remember folks…..you dont need to vote for everyone on the ballot sheet
Anyone but FG/LAB..
FF again ya ? Piss off will ya.
Let’s all vote back in the parties responsible and try and scare people into not voting for the big bad shinners and calling people with different ideas to the failed ones “looneys”.
NO 2 FF/FG/LAB, basically
that name is unusual is there an e in Murphy?? ya Troll.
Take your own pen along. You couldn’t trust the current/previous shower as far as you could throw them.
Use the pencils provided, don’t listen to the spinsters attempting to make your vote void
If you do that, won’t it invalid your vote as it won’t count then?
And remember to get a pic with a labour candidate. Your grandkids won’t believe you when you tell them they once existed. The blame game will be deafening come the weekend. In my experience, sadly I’m just voting for the least terrible one. Or the best waffler.
So leave all fg,labour candidates blank,and get rid of them.
for info,
once your vote is legible
you can use
a crayon
a pen of any colour, wet ink or dry ink for the freemen out there
a pencil
a marker
blood
its is not illegal to use anything other then a pencil.
the reason why pencils are used is due to the mark not easily being removed from the paper if the paper gets wet.
Lipstick?
So tomorrow it’ll be, Independents and smaller partys 1,2,3,4,5,6,7……. SF 8,9,10…….FF 11,12,13…….and thats it!
If you fill it out like that it would probably be seen as a spoilt paper.
Why? In the main photo, all the candidates got numbered. I’m just leaving out the ones i’m voting against. Are you saying some FG supporter vote counter will find something wrong with it.
Britain thinking of adapting this system…..must be good if they adapting something from us spud munching paddys….
So basically to vote right, I have to vote left
Voting for the first time in Ireland tomorrow. ..it’s sounds complicated. I hope I don’t get confused in the morning and run screaming from the polling station
Its just a matter of going into the booth and putting 1234 and so on according to your choice of candidate,the one you like best put 1 in front of their pic then next you prefer no 2 in front of their pic and so on I usually do up to 6 but really 1or 2 is sufficient.
Thanks peggy
If my first 3 preference votes for candidates are eliminated after the first count, what count is my 4th preference transfer included in? What is the percentage needed by independants to reclaim election costs, thanks.
Your 4th preference choice would be included in the second count,unless another candidate has exceeded the quota on the first count.
2nd count and I’m 90% sure they need 1/4 of the quota
No doubt the good folk in Cornwall now see the merit of having a Healy Rae or two!
Don’t forget the FG mantra, folks, “what’s in it for meeeeeee”.
If there’s someone you really don’t want to see elected it’s best to give preference to everyone but them. DONT DO THIS. Looks like the journal is just the same as rte.
A lot of people think that they get multiple votes. In fact the chance of your vote being transferred after the first round is very small.
Is it Saturday yet?
Just a small correction – not all elections in Ireland use STV, as by its nature this system is for when you need to elect multiple candidates at once. AV is used for presidential elections as well as parliamentary by-elections.
Can someone explain how votes are to be selected when a candidate exceeds the quota. For example if you take three candidates A, B & C. A is from the middle of the constituency B is from the west of the consistency and C is from the east. So A exceeds the quota and for arguments sake, has received proportional equal votes across the county. B and C only did well in there half’s of the constituency. So when selecting the votes for the transfer, if they were selected from the west ballot boxes, B would win or if they were selected from the east ballot boxes C would win. In reality how does this work? Is it pure randomness? And if so are the boxes numbered and people pull number out of a hat etc.?
I think the excess votes are distributed according to the proportions of the TOTAL number of votes from that candidate. In your example, suppose the quota is 150, and A got 200 votes, so there are 50 for transfer. Suppose the 200 votes that A got look like this:
120: 1st A, 2nd B
80: 1st A, 2nd C.
Then the excess 50 votes are distributed in the ratio 3:2, so B will get 30 transfers and C will get 20 transfers. You do *not* choose 50 random votes from the pile and look at their 2nd preferences.
Now if there’s a subsequent round of voting, only the proportions of the *transferred* votes are considered. So in the example above, supposing B passes the quota with 10 votes to spare. Then it is the 3rd preferences of those 30 votes that are looked at to decide where the excess 10 votes go. You do *not* refer to the other preferences of whatever B got in the first round.
Sorry, you’re right! While the distribution of surplus votes is chosen in accordance with the preferences of ALL the votes from a first count, the exact papers which are transferred are chosen at random. I found this very surprising. There’s another option called fractional transfer or the Gregory Method, in which *all* of the votes are transferred at *fractional* value, and therefore eliminates any randomness. This contrasts with random transfer, in which a *fraction* of the votes are transferred at *full* value. Apparently we use the Gregory Method for Seanad elections.
They are mixed up – any geographical bias is lost
How are the transfer votes decided on exactly? I understand about meeting the quotation etc but have always wondered how they decide WHICH votes to transfer, as that obviously could impact on the overall result. For instance, if 2 people vote for Cand X who is elected with surplus of, say, 2000 votes, if person A’s paper is transferred Candidate Y will benefit but if Person B’s vote is selected, Candidate Z will benefit. Sorry if I’m complicating the question but I’ve never been able to access a proper explanation -easy to understand! – and no-one seems quite sure how the choice is made. It irritates me… Declan’s comment above relates to this question too!
Well the fact that only Ireland and Malta use this system tells me something
I only found this out yesterday, If candidate A gets elected on the first count with 10,000 votes and MY vote is among them…..NONE of my preferences are of any use to anybody to help them cross the line. This is news to me….Surely that’s not fair. I thought a record of the 10,000 votes had all the preferences noted. what happens if candidate E that misses the finish line has MORE (preference) votes altogether if you added up the FULL quota ???
My question is… Why is the one in the green top in that photo got a marking pencil in her right hand? lol.
have your say