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THE FUTURE OF IRISH Water looks likely to be up for discussion in coalition talks as pressure grows on Fine Gael to do business with Fianna Fáil.
The two parties are regrouping today for the first time since the election, which saw the outgoing coalition lose its majority by a significant margin.
Taoiseach Enda Kenny indicated yesterday that Fine Gael is open to talking to Fianna Fáil, despite repeatedly ruling out a deal between them in the part.
With Fine Gael now 29 seats short of the 79 needed for an overall Dáil majority, joining forces with Fianna Fáil appears to be its only choice for forming a stable government.
But water charges are expected to complicate any deal between the old civil war rivals.
Fianna Fáil has pledged to phase out and abolish the utility if in power, calling it a red line issue in negotiations, while Fine Gael has repeatedly refused to reverse its position on the matter.
Minister for Agriculture Simon Coveney appeared to backtrack on Wednesday, however, saying his party “would be willing” to discuss the issue of water charges in post-election talks.
Speaking the following day, Kenny insisted that people should continue to pay their water bills, telling reporters he thought it would be “a seriously costly and seriously historic mistake to move away from having a single national utility”.
TheJournal Politics / TwitterEnda says it was a very bruising election #GE16 pic.twitter.com/5nO5TOaoMt
— TheJournal Politics (@TJ_Politics) March 2, 2016
Mandate
Fianna Fáil TD Dara Calleary is one of a number of deputies to have questioned the legitimacy of that stance, however.
Earlier this week, he pointed out that the great majority of TDs in the 32nd Dáil now have a mandate to abolish water charges.
“We were very clear during the campaign that we would abolish Irish Water, that we would suspend water charges for five years [and] would not give refunds,” he said of his party.
More than 61% of Irish Water customers (928,000 households) have now paid their charges, according to the most recent figures from the utility.
This compares to 55% at the end of the second cycle and 44% at the end of the first billing cycle.
Irish Water said yesterday that it “remains absolutely focused on the vital job of fixing Ireland’s water services”.
“Customers are continuing to engage with us to make payments on their accounts and more customers are paying with each billing cycle,” it said.
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This is where FF could be shown up for the liars they are..they insisted on a 5 year suspension of IW during the election..let’s see if they’ll hold that line.
Only abolition and a referendum to keep water in public ownership will suffice.
I hope you’re right lads however also consider:
The Irish electorate has the collective memory of a goldfish
5 years is a very long time in politics
The boys know this well. If FF roll over and do deal with FG there is sweet fvck all anyone can do about it. Going to be interesting this.
Guys, you’re working on the supposition that the next Dail will last 5 years. FF said suspended for the next Dail term, which will only last as long as Michael Martin thinks he can will less seats then FG if an election is called.
Referendum and an end to the private company known as Irish Water or no dice.
After everything they have done to fight Right2Water and the movement there is no way that they don’t have a hidden agenda behind it all.
Well let’s see how Kennys and Martins game of rock, paper scissors goes first. They’ve said what they needed to say before an election but that’s no longer applicable now.
According to FF, they will abolish I.W. but here is the interesting bit. They will SUSPEND water charges for 5 years. So, there will be water charges in some form or other.
No surprises here then, afterall it was FF who first proposed the setting up of a national water company.
Why no mention of Alan Kelly and the last government not renewing Ireland’s exemption……
EU directives are binding. Member states must implement them through national legislation. Article 9 of the water framework directive requires charging for domestic water. There is one exemption. It is known within the European Commission as the “Irish Exemption” because it was won by the Irish and only Ireland qualifies for it. It is found in article 9.4 of the directive.
In 2000, the Irish government brokered this exemption and the inclusion of article 9.4 which formally and legally absolves Ireland and only Ireland from the requirement to charge for domestic water.
Not as simple as that FC, another general election will not solve anything until FF know that they can command a majority in the Dail enough to form a government. Both FF and FG know this is the case so they might as well work together to deliver staple government.
@littleone, alan Kelly let the exemption go last Christmas, yet another unreported story in the media
there should have been at least a debate but they are only allowed for gay marriage
They had on their posters they would abolish water charges. That better stick to that. They should also abolish household tax. A tax on your home is unjust
Kenny and martin swore a hole in the wall last week that they would never go into coalition together and nobody questioned them on “what if” scenario. media does like to please these bare faced liars,
LIARS !
Gotta love Fianna Fáil…
Brought IMF to town, agreed water charges…
Quick swing to the left and hijacked the water charges issue….
Pulling the rug from underneath everyone.
In fairness its not just RTE who are biased center right, virtually all the Irish media from broadcasting to print are anti left, apart from the odd one like Gene.
Doesn’t help that he who cannot be named has his fingers in many pies?.
It ultimately won’t matter about the make-up of the next Government. The Water Protest movement has won the battle. All we have know is people on different phases of dealing with the new reality. There are conversations to be had regarding the unwinding of the billing but nothing so complicated that should delay the advance of a referendum to ensure the Water is preserved in public ownership.
http://trickstersworld.com/2016/03/02/gandhis-water-bored/
They haven’t won any battle or the war. Nothing has changed, people talking of change means nothing. You certainly can’t just abolish it as some people think
Thomas Byrne ff stated in an Irish Times article of 20th Feb that fianna fail had no election strategy concerning Irish Water. He says that charging for water was first proposed in 2010 by John Gormley (greens) with a figure of €500 per household mentioned, that the then government did nothing about it because of other priorities. It would be a bit rich of them now to turn the other cheek while there are thousands of people employed by the company. I think that people will have to get used to the idea of paying for their water and waste water treatment from now on.
The referendum would not be a success.
The 33% of me feiners who have their own well/supply would not support a constitutional change to take our water forever off the multi national company buy list.
In fact most of them are very jealous of the success of the anti payment campaign
Irish Water are liars.
They are counting “paid” customers in this 61% group.
Twisting the figures to fool the people.
Diarmuid, it’s kind of tragic to watch really.
Using common sense doesn’t take a referendum, where does it say in the Constitution that water and sewage treatment must be provided foc.
@chris, foc?, where and how has been paying for water and wastewater treatment up to now if its foc?
answers on a fg manifesto
*public company.
Isn’t it mad how this wasn’t brought up a lot on the debates on RTE? Was it mentioned at all? There was a blanket ban on talking about IW. Now it’s high on the agenda as soon as the Dail is due to start?
RTE is another public service unfit for public money. I seriously want to see it shut down or given new orders that 40% of its funding must go on investigative journalism only.
Spotlight to the rescue again last week because all RTE could do were target a few lowly councillors and a childrens playschool in the last 5 years,
It is totally unfit for purpose.
Yep, RTE news last night was just an add on how disastrous it would be if IW was dismantled.
Nothing on how disastrous it was from the get go.
Saw that TTIP , more shameless propaganda from rhe national broadcaster.
Oh, and wrongly targeted a priest too.
Rte is an outdated biased media source ,hopefully social media and demand TV will finish this tax burden off.
rte is run by political appointees what do you expect? truth?
if there is a story on the 0ne o clock news that party hacks do not like the same story is told in a totally different light on the 6 one (phone calls to editors newsrooms are common practice), look at the coverage sf got compared to the angelic martin and kenny
I don’t think that ‘mad’ is the right word to use, afterall polititions were pre-briefed what the debate questions would be before the debates got underway. Irish Water was obviously not something that politicians were willing to talk about for the simple reason that there is no viable alternative in any parties post election agenda.
Irish Water is finished. Anyone who pays, will/should stop paying now as it looks like its money they don’t need to pay and won’t have refunded, the domino effect of this basically kills IW off.
i don’t want to reward people who have paid, but there probably should be a tax credit to cover the money that was essentially coerced out of citizens for Irish water. if there was really that number of payers, then they should be able to get a refund if they pay tax.
@Alien8 agreed
They now want their money back?
But, sure it’s only €3 a week.
Hardly worth making a fuss about!
Why shoukd they be paid back…why indeed should they be entitled to free water in the first place while I who am wheelchair bound and on a low Disability Allowance income have to continnue to pay for my water in a private water scheme…should these people not have to pay up the same as I do…the taxation system doesnt give me any free water so why should it give it to the customers of Irish water ? Am I a less equal citezen than they are ? Your understanding of fairness creates a two tier Ireland where there are folks like me who have to pay for water regardless of whether Irish Water is abolished or not , and other folks aided by FF and the left who milk the tax system for free water. Some of us are it seems more equal than others.
Don’t believe 61% have paid. No where near that,more like 31%. Just do the decent thing and send Irish water to the history books. Make good viewing in 2036 on reeling in the years. 2016 the year IW was scrapped.
8am this morning I had a nice chap in an Irish Water hard hat banging on the door because he couldn’t find the stop cock. I told him to stick the meter in my petrol tank so we could see how much I already pay for water. Calling us customers is also a bit rich. Do muggers call their victims Customers too now??
Well no, because technically, a mugger’s victim would be his supplier. His customers would be those who willingly buy his “services”. Did we willingly buy water? I don’t think we did.
This country would go into meltdown if FF back down to the Water Charges. There will be public lynchings going on all over the place.
Not even SF would destroy IW. No way, the water system needs a huge overall. The next major war is one in water. Not oil. Our water systems are flatlining. Sure, don’t pay for it, but the country sure needs IW infrastructure.
@Gavin The government reduced funding for water from 1.6 billion to 425 million in 2011. Of course it needs work. However, this shouldn’t be done through a system which charges on a consumption basis (as we use less than the UK who are metered) and should be done through general taxation. The reason we have zero water poverty. Households only use 10 percent of water but are now expected to pay up to 78 percent of all costs while corporations and agriculture use 90 percent of all water but will only pay 22 percent of the costs.
Jaysus I outta start copying and pasting this stuff for the daily IW articles.
I would agree that a lot of discussion needs to be taken place. Things that you describe above. However, I don’t think any government will scrap IW.
@ Gavin
“I don’t think any government will scrap IW.”
If they know whats good for them, they had bloody better,
today i reckon there are direct debits being cancelled by the bucket full, all those that were bullied, forced and co-erced into paying can now see the light at the end of the tunnel.
If they can`t agree,I Hope, (and have a feeling) the next march will be monumental
Government funding for IW comes from the Property Taxes of householders, instead of providing important local services. This is why it is left to tidy towns and CE schemes to keep our streets clean and litter free. Water and sewage is a necessary utility and it is only right that every household and tenant pays its fair share instead of leaving the burden on Property Tax home owners. Wake up Ireland ffs.
” I want Irish water to be my legacy” – Alan Kelly
The Artic Monkey. ….. Kelly will get his wish – it will indeed be his legacy in the 25 counties. No point including tipperary (with a small “t”).
So we don’t forget, here is who voted for the bill to be taken from wages:
James Bannon
Joan Burton
Ray Butler
Jerry Buttimer
Catherine Byrne
Ciarán Cannon
Joe Carey
Paudie Coffey
Michael Conaghan
Paul Connaughton
Ciara Conway
Noel Coonan
Marcella Corcoran Kennedy
Joe Costello
Jim Daly
John Deasy
Jimmy Deenihan
Pat Deering
Robert Dowds
Andrew Doyle
Bernard Durkan
Damien English
Frank Feighan
Frances Fitzgerald
Peter Fitzpatrick
Charles Flanagan
Eamon Gilmore
Dominic Hannigan
Noel Harrington
Simon Harris
Tom Hayes
Martin Heydon
Heather Humphreys
Kevin Humphreys
Paul Kehoe
Seán Kenny
Seán Kyne
Anthony Lawlor
Ciarán Lynch
Michael McCarthy
Helen McEntee
Gabrielle McFadden
Dinny McGinley
Joe McHugh
Tony McLoughlin
Michael McNamara
Olivia Mitchell
Michelle Mulherin
Dara Murphy
Eoghan Murphy
Gerald Nash
Dan Neville
Derek Nolan
Aodhán Ó Ríordáin
Kieran O’Donnell
Patrick O’Donovan
John O’Mahony
Joe O’Reilly
Jan O’Sullivan
John Perry
Ann Phelan
James Reilly
Michael Ring
Alan Shatter
Emmet Stagg
David Stanton
Joanna Tuffy
Leo Varadkar
Jack Wall
Alex white
every one of them a permanent reminder of how dumbed down politics is in this country
@TTIP: thanks for the list …. saved for the next election in 8 months time!
Spoofers.
FG 2011
‘The banks aren’t getting another cent’
FG 2012
‘We’ll pay our dues’
Resign now, Kenny!
Please go enda you still don’t get it were not paying and your arrogance won’t force me fianna fail no better with their five year nonsense we pay enough tax and it should be a priority to sign into law water our water should not be sold even worrying about this shows how little faith we have in fairness even after the election…
“Customers are continuing to engage with us to make payments on their accounts and more customers are paying with each billing cycle,”
Citizens. When you’re selling us our own water, cleaned in the plants we built and your wages are paid by our taxes, we’re not your customers, we’re your bosses.
“Customers” again, lol!
A pair of Shleeeeveen’s. When there is another election, both parties will be decimated
Typical FF arrogance saying they’re not refunding those who paid their bills. The people who paid the water bills should get there money back if they abolish Irish water
Why should they get their money back? Do you get your money back when you throw it down a bottomless pit? You’re only losing 3 quid a week anyway….
But they should get money back because they were bullied by the government into paying. Most of us had the sense not to pay but a lot of vulnerable elderly people did pay thes bills because ofthe climate of fear created by labour and Fine Gael
Let’s not forget the standard lease contract for renting would include a clause that states the tenant must pay all the utilities. so theoretically if you didn’t pay your water bill you could be in breach of the contract and kicked out of the house?
I doubt it would happen in reality, though.
There’s an easy solution, abolish all charges below certain usage allowances (based on household size) and issue those who have paid with a generous water credit above the standard allowance. It’s not ideal, but it would be at least some compensation. http://trickstersworld.com/2016/03/02/gandhis-water-bored/
Enda doesn’t want to give up on Irish Water. We all know why. But it’s a very important issue so he better bend to the will of the people. The unions can go jump if they think that I care about the Irish water workers. They can be accommodated elsewhere.
I was laughing at all those who paid,
but then it was tempered by thinking of the scared OAP`s and those forced by landlords who can`t afford it.
Time for both FF and FG to cop themselves on and realise it isn’t about them. It’s the people who matter and if they continue to forget that they will share a lot less than 50% of the vote
€710 v €280
Those who cant afford new cars (low car tax) and pay the high car tax on older cars are also paying the water tax for themselves AND their wealthy neighbours. €400,000,000 p.a. is paid from Car Tax to Irish Water each year.
Ireland is a most unfair inequitable disgusting place to live – a failed society with 100,000 on the streets. No wonder young people leave for successful societies.
As Bill Clinton from Nad said “Its economic and social justice stupid … not just the Economy!”
€710 v €280
Abolish it,or pay the price.fg,lab,were hammered because of water charges.
If Finna Fail do not get rid of Irish water company they will never be elected again in high numbers. The people of Mayo must be so proud of Enda Kenny because they voted him in to keep the recovery of homelessness , longest ever hospital trolley crisis, decimated services etc..
I wonder will Kenny be loved by his own party as he is by the foolish people in Mayo who voted him back in.
It’s sickening that politics solves nothing. Irish water should burn and from its ashes a water utility should emerge potected against privation from the very people who now discuss its faith. Many believed an election would change things but already we are being spoken down to by politicial leaders who can’t even from a goverment. We waited for change but instead we are sold out. How much election fraud was carried out, how much faith can we place in a election register that is out of date. Are the going to make up a mandate as the go along again.
This mental anguish over the lame duck utility is nothing but stalling the inevitable. The fix is very simple. You retain a Central Water Utility, you abolish charges below a certain allowance based on the household and then hold a referendum to ensure it remains in public ownership.
http://trickstersworld.com/2016/03/02/gandhis-water-bored/
Estimated costs to abolish Irish Water range anywhere from €1.5-€7 billion. Whether it’s 1.5 or 7 or anywhere in between, if we have that money to spend why not put it to better use? There are much more pressing matters than getting rid of Irish Water.
Because IW will keep on soaking up money for little or no return . They should just levy each house on mains supply approx 100 euro per year and invest in the infrastructure if additional funds are needed .Hopefully this can be matched by a reduction in VAT so we as tax payers are net no worse off . At the moment all we have is a billing company .
If it was going to be profitable you’d have a point. But it would have been sold off soon enough. Especially seeing as there is a major world economic downturn on the way.
Wasn’t it FF & GP who first mentioned possible water charges and now interestingly enough they want rid of the charges. It’s like FF pulled the pin on the grenade ran for cover watch it blow now crawling back from under there bunker
Why are allowing ourselves to be fooled once again. How on earth did Water Charges become the only topic for discussion post election ahead of trollies, homelessness et al?
Can people not see that it allows FF, who set that agenda, avoid having to talk about who they will or will not do business with along with their pretence of seeking political reform ahead of any such decisions. What a load of baloney!!
It also takes the spotlight of Enda Kenny’s position.
Anyway at the end of the day you watch the EU stepping in to say that any new Government will have to charge us gullible peasants for water as it is now EU LAW. As well, what about the EU report kept under wraps during election where they say the Property Tax must also be increased resulting in average annual payment of €3000 in Dublin?!
These unelected technocrats still believe they own us a la the Troika days simply because we cravenly capitulated to every demand. No wonder the UK are considering getting out while we ‘tip the cap’ as usual.
And who is pulling our strings at home by putting the Water Charges centre stage???
One solution would be for the people of Tipperary to pay for IW for everyone nationally, as they have the likes of Alan Kelly, his brother Declan waiting to make a killing off it. It was no accident that Alan Kelly ended up in charge of IW. Also the media including RTE were complicit along with Dob’s papers in shutting down any debate about IW.
Ironic that IW is now the epitaph on labours grave.
It’s amazing that people still voted FF after they initially brought in the USC and said before the election that they will not reduce it.
You get the feeling a lot of people didn’t even know that .
Thanks a lot to all those people who seem to want to keep the USC.
Amazing.
Easiest way to to sort out the payment of Irish water is to bring in a tax on sugary drinks such as Coco Cola .charge a €1.00 euro per litre and the 250 million will be taken in to the exchequer in no time .
It hits those who drink the stuff the most must so Clare Daly and all can hold there heads high
Meanwhile we in FG/FF can laugh our heads off as the people who drink soft drinks the most are from the pool of voters that the left tend to swim in
Indeed, people lying on trollies, children homeless and they are flicked to one side by an utterly self serving bunch.
Loving the fact that not one person on here has complained about the fact that Gerry Adams or Sinn Fein not included in the headline ..
I seriously wonder did there voters understand when they put a 1 next to the SF name on the ballot paper that they were voting for someone who has no interest in putting through legislation for the next five years .
It is just crazy how what people believe is not from personal knowledge but what others say and then they act on this…
Everyone did not want this government, they did not want Enda as Taoiseach and they did not want what they did in the last 5 years but yet they listed to F.G. Candidate lies and elected them. So nothing has changed because people still voted for them, they still put a number 10 or 11 or 12 for them and that is how they got in.
Are people dopes???
It takes a patriot in todays world it seems to do the less popular but the right thing for the country and pay their water bills. Of course some of us have no option but to pay our water bills as members of private water schemes which incidently have major problems because we dont have a body like Iris Water to go to when things go wrong like happened with the dystem I belong to which ended up costing each household 4 didget figures in bills…but we had to pay up or live without water and now it seems some feel yhis system of robbery would be great for those who are lucky enough to be served by Irish Water. We will if FF and the lef5 have their way only have the right to free water when we go to visit the elite of the country who have free water that is if they do decide to offer us a glass of their free flowing water without charging us extra for the service. These same TDs from the left and also FF TDs now elected to the new Dail seem to declare that the rest of the country have a right to free water while we who are on private water schemes not only have to pay but the water grant should also be taken away from us, so I cant help asking the question of the left and FF ; now that you are talking about revoking my right to fairness and equality and having the same right to free water like the rest of the country how long will it be before you try to decree that I am nolonger entitled to be an Irish citezen and therefore should have no rights in Ireland at all. Fairness it seems in a FF led government does indeed decree that some people are more equal than others
As to Enda Kennys leaderdhip I have to say that I think he has been a wonderful leader honest and fair and creative in his leadership whilst retsining a girm hand at the helm during a very stirmy time gor our country and he has led this country back from the brink of a bankrupt state to what is now a thriving econmy, and to think we could be going back to having the likes of Michael Martin as Toiseach who has developers donations ending up in his wifes bankaccount is just beyond the realms of reason. If FF and the left have their way the only way forward is to wait for the Troika and the IMF to come to town again or have we forhotten those memories of not so long ago.
Patlyndo while you are telling Jerry to watch what the other hand is doing I suggest you also watch what the hands of the Troika will be doing when the hands on the left are caught empty and unable to pay the countrys bills
I wonder if the elected members of FG and FF realise yet that the opposition to IW is about more than paying for water. IW is now also a symbol for the anger and frustration people feel for political decisions thst are a boot on the neck of most of Irish society and the intolerance felt for the lies that these politicians spew forth.
Why not hold referendum on water charges with next election
F.F. wants water charges to come in 2021, that is 5 years away but according to a local paper with me the real debate was overlooked and that is PROPERTY TAX. This election was awful quiet about that?
have your say