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“THERE IS A slam-dunk case for extending foreign language teaching to the age of five”. Those are the words of Conservative education secretary, Michael Gove, who brought the issue of foreign language learning to the fore in Britain.
This was reported in the Irish media, but failed to ignite any debate from politicians – despite the fact that at the moment, just 15 per cent of Irish primary schools offer foreign language learning to fifth and sixth class pupils.
The failure to ignite debate is peculiar. Despite the recession, Ireland remains one of the most open economies in the OECD, and as such, continues to attract a lot of foreign direct investment.
This is seen with the continued success of the export economy, which is viewed as the sector which will lead Ireland in recovery.
Any FDI investment brings with it the necessity for foreign languages, as companies like Facebook, Google and Hewlett Packard are using their Irish bases as headquarters for their Europe-wide operations.
As a result of the collapse in the construction industry, we now have an economy where someone with a first-class honours degree in engineering may struggle to find employment and be forced to emigrate – while a person with a pass degree but fluency in more than one European language may find a job at an international company relatively easily.
The Fine Gael-Labour Government has repeatedly claimed that it is through Ireland’s openness the economy will recover. And there are immediate marketplace advantages to those unemployed who have proficiency in foreign languages.
Despite this, Labour TD and deputy chairman of the Education Committee, Aodhán Ó’Ríordáin, says foreign languages are mostly off the agenda. “To be honest, our primary focus is on improving numeracy and literacy rates.”
Karen O’Hare is a recent graduate of Media Arts with German in DIT. Since leaving DIT, Ciara spent a year in Germany teaching English, but chose to return to Ireland, where she has received a job at a multinational company in Dublin city centre, where proficiency in German was a requirement.
Without fluency in German, she admits emigration was likely. “ My chances of finding a job in Dublin would be a lot lower. It (having a foreign language) is definitely a huge advantage for applying to companies like Google and Facebook. If, after several months of job searching I was unsuccessful I would definitely emigrate – not just for financial reasons but to gain work experience and not waste my time hoping for a job in Ireland.”
Ireland still has only a minority with a proficiency in foreign languages, according to a Eurobarometer study, 2006. Some 66 per cent of Irish people are unable to hold a conversation in a language either than their mother tongue – the highest number in the European Union.
Having English as our mother tongue is a disincentive to learn a foreign language and a disincentive for the government to move it up the agenda. “I think having English has meant foreign language learning has not been prioritised. English is the language of commerce and we expect people in Europe to speak English”, says Ó’Ríordáin.
But in spite of this, the disadvantages of this lack of foreign language proficiency are clear. According to a 2007 European Union study, exporting SMEs lose 11 per cent of business due to language barriers.
Several recommendations have been made. The Royal Irish Academy has recommended a foreign language be made compulsory. Ireland is the only country in the EU, along with Scotland, that does not have a foreign language compulsory at some stage of education.
Ó’Riordain says the lack of success of Irish being a compulsory language “mars our thoughts” on any such move. Taoiseach Enda Kenny is on the record saying he believes Irish should not be compulsory at Leaving Cert level, so it would seem unlikely foreign language learning will be made compulsory under the present Government.
A re-instatement of rules requiring foreign languages proficiency being compulsory for entry into Ireland’s top four universities has been recommended
Meanwhile Ó’Riordain believes trainee teachers should have the option to do courses in foreign languages in training colleges, so teachers can diversify into foreign language teaching if and when required.
Despite any recommendations, the present economic situation poses enormous difficulties, says Ó’Riordain. “No one has any problems with more exposure to foreign languages, but we are very restricted (with the current economic climate). We already have an overloaded curriculum and adding teachers will cost more.”
Perhaps, though, it may just be that those who learn foreign languages have the choice to stay in Ireland and work. And those that don’t, leave.
Fergal Browne is a graduate of journalism in DIT. He writes at everythingiskaputt.wordpress.com.
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I have been saying this for years, foreign languages need to be thought in primary schools, with a focus on an actual ability to converse in the language and people will have no problem finding a job. I work for a multinational and would be on big bucks I had a second language.
I agree, after all, we are living in a multi-cultural world.
But a sensible evaluation of language teaching in primary school would lead to Irish being dropped from the curriculum (or the classroom time spent on it significantly reduced) and we couldn’t be having such progressive moves in Ireland so we couldn’t…[/sarcasm]
This year i graduated from commerce international in UCC. you choose on of either french, italian, german or irish. we are all now pretty much fluent in our chosen language. And whats better is that 80-90% of our year is now in fulltime employment. those who looked for it, got it. This was definately helped by our international view and foreign language. In this day and age it is so important to have this ability.
I am a bit sickened that I have no option for my child but to learn irish from the age of five when I know he would have a much better future if he spent that time on a foreign language. Maybe it would be too much of an inconvenience to expect our highly paid teachers to retrain to have a foreign language- they’d probably strike over it.
Are teacher highly paid? I don’t think so. Kicking the public sector is getting a bit old….. Cop on and move on
Devising the schools curriculum is above teachers’ pay scale, despite what you’ve been told, and far from being belligerent strike-monkeys, they tend to be committed and innovative, at least that’s our experience.
Why not start them off at home with the languages you’ve learned yourself? Simply introduce it into everyday speaking, and they’ll be using languages interchangeably in no time.
Irish is our national language people have fought and died so we could speak Irish in this country. Its part of our heritage and I dont agree it should be dropped. The primary school curriculum has12 subjects and is full up as it is. If some of them were dropped by the government then there would be room to teach a foreign languages. Highly paid don’t think so. Why the hell should I work my ass off when it’s people like you who think that we do f all anyway. Seriously if you think teaching is so great and highly paid go on ahead and be one if not stop teacher bashing we have one of the best education systems in Europe and all we get is slagged off by ignorant people like yourself. go and teach you obviously think you can do a better job……
“Irish is our national language people have fought and died so we could speak Irish in this country.”
@Ellie Kennedy If that was their motivation for getting killed then they were idiots and no one should feel any obligation to learn Irish to legitimize their idiocy.
Ellie, annoying as it may be to hear this stupid teacher-bashing mantra, your belligerence does nothing to make the case for teachers, and as for “why the hell should I work my ass off”, need I say that this doesn’t help either.
Delighted to see that the ‘you should feel honoured to be taught Irish, people fought and died’ CRAP is still alive and well in schools……. that attitude helped closed my ears and mind during Irish class when I was a child, and both would re-open come french class…. À bon entendeur, salut!
Teachers follow the curriculum that is given to them and that includes the Irish language. The teachers have taken the cuts just like everybody else to their not so high salaries. They work extremely hard both in school and also do a great deal of schoolwork at home in the evenings. Some teachers take on drama, sport and other activities with the school children for free. Parents could buy a few books or CD’s of a foreign language and do a bit of teaching themselves. It definitely would be an advantage to the children.
Blaming our lack of foreign language skills on the fact that we have to learn Irish in school is a complete cop out that only serves to further muddle the issue. Yes there are only so much teaching hours available and the amount of subjects especially at junior cert level doesn’t help but Irish not the reason we compare so poorly to other country’s when it comes to languages.
We are not the only country that has two languages and besides that students in many European countries are required to learn two foreign languages, usually English and a second language. I worked as a teacher in a German secondary school for a year and there was none of this “oh but how are we supposed to learn English when we have French and Russian classes too” moaning that we like to indulge in. Stop making Irish the scapegoat and focus on the many other reasons that we are weak at languages that were listed in the article.
“Irish not the reason we compare so poorly to other country’s when it comes to languages.”
True but if we got rid of it as a compulsory subject then imagine the hours that would be freed up to learn a language one may actually have use for? Those who wish to learn it for their national pride etc could do and those who don’t will actually be more productive; learning a language they actually want to learn :)
@kieron Don’t agree at all. We could drop irish but no doubt would NOT spend that time learning other languages. Irish is not a hinderance to learning other languages.
Yes other countries have two languages but they are truly bilingual, Ireland is not. Irish language policy is a political statement not one based on the linguistic reality in the country.
Laura
the problem is we are forced to learn a language that is not an international language. You cannot compare it to learning English as a second language as this is widely spoken and will be of use in the future. When I worked abroad my hons Irish was not recognized and I had to do more exams to gain points to enter college.
Irish should not be compulsory and I would love if my son had the option to learn a second foreign language which would be of use to him internationally.
Actually the main problem is not Irish, but the time wasted on teaching religion during school hours. I suspect if you got rid of it from primary and secondary schools, there would be time to fit in another language. Also, I don’t understand why the most commonly taught foreign language is French. French is admittedly the gateway to a rich literature, most of which is however available in translation. It used to be the international language of diplomacy but is not any more. If there is an international language, it’s English. Apart from Africa, French is useful in France, part of Switzerland and the rust-belt area of Belgium, and that’s about it. Forward-looking schools should be focussing on Portuguese (all those Brazilians), Russian, and Mandarin. That’s where the future lies in terms of employment and economic development.
In my day German was the next big language…so much for that.
Chinese is seriously difficult to learn.
I always felt that Spanish would be a good choice, not only because of the numbers of speakers but it’s also a gateway to learning other languages like Italian.
Our ability to learn new languages diminishes from around age 12, so it’s sadly ironic that that is the age at which we begin to teach them.
To say that foreign language teaching is off the agenda is defeatist, especially from a former principal, now in a position to effect change. There is a measurable benefit to be gained from multilingualism, so let’s see a bit of innovation.
Great to see the discussion here on languages. A slight change of topic: consider just for a second that Ireland is one of six nations where English is spoken as a first language. Now consider the recent statics released by the British Council that at the moment 3 billion people are studying English worldwide. In just one country, South Korea, 400,000 people went abroad last year to study English. Just in terms of Korean students, 17,000 went to the UK to study English. Do you know how many went to Ireland? To my knowledge just 3 Korean students were registered in Irish university courses. Less than 200 stayed a year studying English, while over a thousand stayed for about 3 weeks. Meanwhile In the UK and Australia, the teaching of English as a foreign language is those countries’ fifth and fourth largest industries respectively. In New Zealand it is considered a lifeline for that country’s economy.
Now back to Ireland: although we are only one of six countries in the world where students can go to learn English, it is not even recognized as an industry. The EFL industry is worth 4 billion pounds in the UK, right next door to us, and in Ireland the industry is so tiny it isn’t recognizable.
We are in a recession right now, and the time has come for people to realize the huge potential there is here. Oh, and by the way, Korean students studying in the US spend some 50,000 dollars a year on their upkeep. Think of how that type of spending could boost our local communities.
I have been pushing these stats for years, but quite simply, most of those in the government that I have talked to about this don’t seem to get it. Perhaps the reason is we are used to seeing industry in terms of manufacturing, agriculture and perhaps to a lesser extent, tourism. But we have to recognize that education is also an industry in its own right, particularly in terms of the third level education of international students.
PS:Sorry about going off topic, but I felt this is an important message that needs to be put out there.
Don’t apologise Terence, excellent post.
Excellent post indeed. You know the old adage – “throw enough mud and eventually it will stick”. Keep pushing those statistics and fingers crossed the politicians may eventually hear it. Could you not start something yourself in EFL here in Ireland without waiting for the government, or are there complications with that?
In Britanny where I’m from, apart from French , some people speak Breton ( similar to irish language). This language used to be spoken by everybody. After WWII I think, Breton language started to be forbidden in schools. Everybody had to speak french. My parents don’t speak breton as a result, although they could hear the language at home. But French was the language of the country and there was no other choice but speak it. This is one of the reason why Breton language slowly disappeared.
At school, learning English was compulsory. Then you had to choose between Spanish and German for a 2nd language. If you wanted to, you could learn Breton but it was optional. I chose to sudy Breton as well, mostly because I love the culture and traditions of my region and I’m very attached to it. We also have all Breton schools that are very popular now. People who want to learn Breton are able to do it but you are not forced to do so.
what I’ve noticed here is nearly a feeling of reject towards irish language sometimes. Would it be because everybody has to learn it and the way it’s taught ? I used to ask my co-workers translations in irish, simple things like happy Birthday and so on, and i rarely get answers because they forgot everything they learn. Why ? they weren’t interested. Maybe if irish was optional, only people who actually care and want to learn would be able to do so ( you already have all-irish schools).
Why not make Irish optional and it would beome less of a burden for people who don’t want to learn or are bad at languages and let the people who want , learn it.
Regarding foreign languages, irish people may be weak at learning them, but french are not better ! The thing is in france, speaking english is a nearly a requisite to actually get any job. The sad thing I also found out when I came to Ireland is some french people being employed here , having to speak french all day for they job ( european call centre), don’t even learn english !!
@ Anne
“what I’ve noticed here is nearly a feeling of reject towards irish language sometimes. Would it be because everybody has to learn it and the way it’s taught ?”
This is a common argument but I don’t accept it. I went through the very same school system as most people in Ireland, I was forced to learn it too, I didn’t see the value in it but it didn’t turn me off the language.
I still like the language and I know a lot of people who went through school at various times over the years and they like it too.
My concern with making it optional is that if there isn’t enough uptake then it could well be removed as an option in some schools thereby denying it as an option for those that DO want to learn it. (IMO)
The language teaching is changing though. And with the emergence of Irish medium schools many kids don’t have the same hang ups about the language that older generations did. my 2c
There is a feeling of rejection towards the language, and it has a lot to do with the way it’s taught. Literature worthy of preservation is taught to students who have not attained a level of proficiency that will allow them to enjoy it, in an attempt to advance the merits of the literature, and provide a market for it.
How many students are walking around with translations of the books they cannot get to grips with, because the book is pitched higher than their level of conversational Irish? This is no way to learn a language.
We wouldn’t see Montaigne pitched at Leaving Cert French students, but they are expected to tackle Tóraíocht Dhiarmada agus Gráinne, a challenge for even the seasoned speaker.
The end result is a lot of people who don’t speak the language at all, and yet, out of admiration for the lofty literature they have encountered, extol its merits as a compulsory language, for some misplaced feelings that they could have done better.
We need to teach the language as we teach all languages, in a living way, for real use, in real life.
Apologies for the deviation from the topic.
My son started learning Irish at the age of nine and is now doing hons Irish in secondary……unfortunately I think it is a complete waste of his time and he could now be proficient in german french or spanish and this would give him a lot more opportunities in the future……considering his generation has a big bill to pay!
The funny thing is he reckons he gets good grades NOT because he understands the language but because he has a good memory and thats all that is needed because of the way it is taught!
I did honours level Irish in secondary school as well as honours level French. The schooling system never affected my ability to learn languages. I am now fluent in English, Irish, Russian and Manx and can hold a conversation in French, Ukrainian and Finnish, as well being able to read several more languages. Learning Irish in my case was not a complete waste of time and certainly did not impede my ability to be proficient in any other language. The problem, I think, is that Irish is not taught properly in schools which gives people a bad taste in their mouth for Irish in particular and languages generally, and when they only start to learn languages in secondary school they have already 5 or 6 years of negative experiences when it comes to learning a third or subsequent language (as well as the fact that the older you are when you start to learn a language the less likely you are to become proficient). The solution would be to improve the teaching of Irish so that it is more accessible and doesn’t lead to negative experiences and introduce a third foreign language (depending on the school it could be French, German, Spanish, or any other language) while the child is in primary school. Scrap the likes of religion (which should be taught on Saturdays or Sundays) and you free up time for the acquisition of another language. The majority of countries in Europe have three languages in school. In Finland students are required to learn Finnish, Swedish (which most never use, although most are very proficient), and typically English, though other languages sometimes occupy the place of that subject. Norway has Norwegian, English and a third European language (and in the northern parts Sámi is also included, giving four languages). Luxembourg has four languages taught in schools (French, German, Luxembourgish and English). Those in Barcelona have Spanish, Catalan and English. In the Faroes there are Faroese, Danish and English. While in Iceland there is Icelandic, Danish and English.
Irish always gets dragged into these discussions and unfairly bashed, IMHO.
The truth is we just don’t use Irish very well. If we taught Irish a lot better in national schools (ideally through Irish medium schools) we could develop better language skills in our kids which will benefit them when learning other languages in future. i.e. they would pick up a third or fourth language a lot easier.
If we are to force foreign languages on school kids where will this language resource come from and who will pay for it? We can even afford to get our kids out of prefabs ffs.
We had our chance to get out of the prefabs, EM, like we had the chance of a respectable health service, but our esteemed leaders of the time chose instead to send some of us off to Dundrum with all the spare cash from their vote-buying taxation policy.
But I digress – there is a good cost/benefit case to be made for the introduction of international language teaching. It benefits the school-leaver looking for a job, and it makes the country more attractive to MNCs.
BTW, I agree completely with the case you make for the retention and teaching of Irish, especially in an Irish-speaking environment.
David – I’ve absolutely no problem with introducing foreign languages to kids but I would hate to see the teaching of Irish affected because:
1. even though I don’t speak it I think it’s a great language which should be preserved
2. i strongly believe in bilingualism and think we are missing a great opportunity with irish (already tons of resources in place too).
I’d also be concerned about spending money on it when schools are struggling so badly at the mo. Our kids school regularly has fund raisers just so they can fix window& doors etc. In fact at the moment they are being forced to lay off two teachers from their staff which will drive the class sizes even higher. We need to fix these sort of problems first. But that’s a different discussion anyway.
Yes, I agree- having a foreign language is very important for young people seeking employment and should be taught from a younger age. I think Irish should always be taught in our schools- but should not be one of the compulsory subjects for the leaving certificate exams.
Ps great article fergal!
@ Ellie Kennedy – obviously you don’t need manners to be a teacher – some role model.
There’s a pair of you in it, Saffron.
The world is becoming more and more harsh and competitive – God knows what it will be like when our children have grown up, they will be competing with billions of chinese and indidan workers. Already many of our jobs have gone there and when our children grow up there might be no prospects for them here and who’s to say the US, Australia and the other english speaking countries will be on top then? This recession has shown the advantages that having a foreign language brings when someone has to emigrate. I would rather that we faced reality and prepare our children for the future with a second language at the age of five. Any sensible parent would prefer that their child has the skills to provide for themselves than having a cupla focal gaeilge because it makes up feel warm and fuzzy inside because we are Irish. Speaking Irish will not put a roof over their head – unless they become teachers that is.
Of course teachers are going to be threatened by the proposal to introduce foreign languages and make irish non compulsory – primary school teaching is a profession that is their exclusive domain as irish speakers – making it non compulsory would open it up to a wider circle and make it more competitive – the irish speaking teachers would have to learn a foreign langauge if they don’t already have one which would probably be an inconvenience to them – but why should children have to learn irish just because that’s what the teachers are able to teach? – If irish is made non compulsory it will soon become something that interested people learn out of genuine passion and interest, as it is those that aren’t interested soon forget it anyway and have wasted their time.
Why do Irish say that they “have a language” instead of saying that they know a language?
Because in the Irish language – which permeates their English and is good enough reason for them to learn Irish as it provides them with insights into their own use of English – you say “I have” a skill. Tá snamh agam. I have swimming = I can swim/I know how to swim.
The simple sad fact about languages is that the human mind acquires them interactively. Acres of hours learning technical grammar rules add absolutely nothing to fluency,
Le simple triste fait concernant les langues et que le mental humaine les acquiesesent dans une mode interactive. Les Nombreuse heures données a les régles grammatiques n’ajoutent rien de tout á la niveaue de competance.
Vocabulary and idiom are vastly more important.
Und das is was ich denke, mit mein halb-lettonische tocter und mein deutsche freundin ..
Vous avez raison. Tá an ceart agat. Your’re right.
I completely agree, the expectations of learning Irish are much higher at primary school level. I’m teaching English to 5 – 12 year old children in Barcelona at the moment. By 12 years old they have the basics of the language, about 40 – 50 words and basic grammar constructions. By secondary school, this strong foundation is the key to them building and progressing.
I remember by the time I got to secondary school I was fed up of Irish, even the textbooks seemed so out of date and boring. I didn’t see the point and my resentment started to grow. It’s a shame, it’s such a historical and beautiful language that provides a great window into our past.
Maybe if Irish was optional at primary level then there might be more resources to update the syllabus…
I don’t see how making it optional at primary level would create more resources to update the syllabus. Anyway the syllabus has changed an awful lot since your/my time.
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