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IT’S NEARLY THREE weeks since the people spoke but politicians are still trying to figure out what they said.
Ireland currently has a caretaker government with its caretaker Taoiseach in Washington today to meet President Barack Obama, hand over the bowl of shamrock and do all the usual St Patrick’s Day duties. He’ll be back home tomorrow to check in on his chances of continuing in government.
His senior ministers and, ironically, his potential future successors – Frances Fitzgerald, Simon Coveney and Leo Varadkar – are all involved in talks with smaller parties and independents about securing their support. Junior minister Simon Harris and backbencher Eoghan Murphy, have also participated.
Small parties and independents are talking separately to Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil. Very little has been said publicly about those talks to date and they have not, as yet, yielded any tangible outcome.
This is why many in political circles believe they are a mere warm-up for the main event: When Fine Gael and Fianna Fail eventually sit down to talk about governing together.
But there’s no immediate prospect of it happening, despite the expectation it would take place after the Dáil met for the first time last Thursday.
Fine Gael’s not-so-subtle approaches to Fianna Fáil through the media last week were largely rebuffed. One senior Fine Gael figure said the selective leaks about an equal split of cabinet posts and rotating Taoiseach had been a mistake, coming “too early” in the process.
It is now thought that any substantial talks between the two parties – if they even reach that point – will not take place until after 6 April when the Dáil tries again to elect a Taoiseach. Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil are putting forward Enda Kenny and Micheál Martin, while Sinn Féin hasn’t yet decided if it will propose Gerry Adams again.
One Fine Gael figure characterised Fianna Fáil’s position on the grand coalition as “a vitriolic no, nay, never”.
Yet, on Saturday, the Irish Examiner reported a number of Fianna Fáil TDs were coming around to to the idea, with 10 declaring that either a grand coalition or support for a Fine Gael minority cannot be ruled out.
But the biggest problem within Fianna Fáil is that any deal will have to go to the membership at a special ard fheis. There remains huge resistance among the grassroots to doing business with Fine Gael judging from the feedback TDs were getting when some of them met with their local cumanns last week.
Returning Fine Gael and Enda Kenny to government in whatever form is anathema to many ordinary Fianna Fáil members. It’s also unpalatable for some TDs, one of whom told us this evening:
The onus is on us to get this government out.
The same senior TD insisted that the verdict of the electorate wasn’t necessarily that Fine Gael and Fianna Fail needed to bury the hatchet just because the Dáil seat numbers add up. If it’s a case of numbers then Fine Gael, Sinn Féin and Labour could just as easily get to 80 seats, they observed.
Fianna Fáil does believe it can govern in the minority. At the moment its four-man negotiating team of TDs Barry Cowen, Michael McGrath, Charlie McConalogue and Jim O’Callaghan are meeting with independents and smaller parties to try and hammer out a deal.
But it’s very hard to see how it can get the numbers with just 43 of its own TDs – seven less than Fine Gael. Even with the support of a dozen or so independents, the SocDems and the Greens, it leaves them well short of the 79 needed for a Dáil majority or anything close to it.
Leo Varadkar has put on record that there is “no way” his party will support a Fianna Fáil minority. Other senior Fine Gael colleagues agree with him and, contrary to what was reported yesterday, Simon Coveney didn’t refuse to rule it out, he just never acknowledged the question.
The “no, nay, never” reluctance in Fianna Fáil has led Fine Gael to believe that if it isn’t going to budge – at least for now – then they must press ahead with securing as much support as possible to govern in the minority.
This is despite it being far from the stable government Enda Kenny keeps saying he wants to deliver for the country. Even with the support of, for example, 10 independents, the SocDems and the Greens, Fine Gael is at 65 in terms of Dáil votes.
Like a Fianna Fáil minority, it’s far short of anything remotely stable in terms of a government and Fine Gael knows it. One senior party figure described it today as “very, very vulnerable”.
The party may have to try for a minority government first just to “help Micheál Martin”, as one Fine Gael TD put it last week. The implication being that Fine Gael’s protracted failure to put together a minority government would make it easier for Fianna Fáil to at least starting talking to Kenny and co.
As for the smaller parties and independents, some involved in the talks believe this is all shadowboxing. Ahead of further talks today one said that it all “feels like we’re going through the motions”.
Another TD who participated in a meeting with Fine Gael last week described how no one on the other side of the table seemed to be taking notes. Fine Gael sources counter this by insisting that when the Taoiseach is in the room for three hours, it means you’re being taken seriously.
There are two things everyone is agreed on: This can’t go on forever and no TD wants a second election.
Right now both Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil are forging ahead with plans to try and govern in the minority. That will likely continue up until the Dáil sits on 6 April and tries to elect a Taoiseach.
Failure there would make it even more of an imperative for Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil to talk in the two or three weeks that follow. If there is still no government by the end of April then there’s probably going to be a second election or, as one cabinet minister said ominously last week: “Keep May free.”
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Imagine getting a job and then, refusing to do the job because they do not like the folk they have to work with, but still keeping the job.
Err, another election will leave a few without a job. It’s up to us to usurp those doing the least right now.
THE ONLY CONCLUSION IS THEY WANT TO BE AT THE HEAD OF EVERYTHING THE PATRICKS DAY PARADE …THE 1916 PARADE AND ANYTHING THAT KEEPS THEM IN THE LIMELIGHT THEY SEEM TO THINK THEY CAN NOT BE DONE WITHOUT…THREE WEEKS AFTER THE ELECTION AND NO GOVERNMENT …DO WE REALLY NEED THESE CLOWNS…WHO IS RUNNING THE COUNTRY WHEN WE HAVE THE CARETAKER SENT TO DELIVER THE SHAMROCK …IN THE NEXT SAINT PATRICKS DAY SEND OUR PRESIDENT NOT THE POLITICAL HACKS TO THE USA THIS IS ONLY GLORY HUNTING ON BEHALF OF THE POLITICAL HACKS
Time for Kenny or Martin to show if they can be a statesman and openly call for a grand coalition. But will either put the interests of the people ahead of those of their party ?
Symbolism…you’re actually wrong..asking ff/fg to go in to government together,to a lot of their voters is like asking manutd and Liverpool to join together..both their mandates were based on not going into government together..so I say that they are just playing ick ack ock. ??
Funny how SF/PIRA don’t mind being a junior coalition partner for Unionists in a UK regional assembly.
But are too scared to be junior coalition partner in our sovereign independent State….
Scared of being exposed for the thuggish frauds they are?
Blah blah SF/PIRA blah blah. Do you want SF in government monkey man?
Seems like he does.. Funny that… I wonder why diarmuid?…. Haha he calls them frauds but wants them in government… # confused diarmuid
Diarmuid your party is built on fraud.Sf is built on integrity intelligence respect.
Welcome back Diarmuid. I hope you got all the posters down in time.
You might not have noticed, the war is over (and I’m not a SF voter, by the by)
As for our “sovereign independent State”, that particular right was given away by FF and FG. Do try to keep up.
“Sf is built on integrity intelligence respect.”
Srsly? C’mon now…..
Diarmuid is like a dinosaur , living in the past…
The difference is that they won’t go against their election promises. Fianna fail and Michael Martin quite clearly stated on numerous occasions that they’re not going in with fine gael. People voted for them on that understanding, now imagine if they just renage on that promise, nothing they say after that could be taken seriously.
Nothing they say is taken too seriously anyway :p
Surely to God calling for another election, a minority government or even a raggle taggle government made up of left and right is better then a FG/FF government? I don’t understand how anyone who claims to care for the vulnerable can call for this.
Stephen maybe now is the time..I’d prefer they state clearly before an election that going into power together is an option they will consider.then maybe we will get an honest election.
Just calling out frauds and hypocrites.
Shinnertrolls don’t like being called out.
Sparky, I honestly think another election would produce more or less the same results. Not enough time has passed for public opinion to shift in any significant way. Waste of money
Ha ha. Frauds and hypocrites. …… SF ære hardly the only ones Diarmuid!
Diarmuid, does one have to be a baboon to wear a blue shirt?
No diarmuid they are cautious not to end up in the same black hole lab have been sucked into.
Exactly. SF/PIRA has always put its own interests ahead of the interests of the Irish people.
I’ve accused you of contrived drivel before, but you’re reaching dizzying heights
Balls, Diarmuid. Your obsession continues and you don’t give a damn what shade of Government appears once it doesn’t contain “shinners”. Yet you will continue to lambaste “shinners” for not offering to go into Government. Would you ever get a grip.
The people have spoken.
Unsurprisingly the TDs still aren’t listening.
That’s their usual default position, post election.
Nothing focusses their attention like an impending election.
They’ll eventually coalesce with each other. If you were an FF strategist you’d be pushing FG into a minority. As a FF supporter admitted last night on CBLive, they don’t want to give SF the opportunity to be the largest in opposition as they know they’d gain traction. FF want the best of both worlds
So much for putting the country first, they are all playing politics and serving party interests first, and it’s not jus FF and FG doing this.
I agree to an extent, although FG and FF are the only one with the numbers
People in this country would want to wake up they put the two partys that wrecked this country back into power is this country for real,200 hundred billion in debt to a banking cartel how do ff or fg people think that their partys are going to fix this country when it was them that created this mess 5 more years of bad wages and pure bullshite corruption.
True Stephen it’s the only option really, but SF ruling out coalition with everybody was a cop out too.
The media seem somewhat fixated on how SF could form a government while FF and FG hold close to 100 seats between them. SF couldn’t go in regardless of Gerrys will as it is decided by delegates at the Ard Fheis which last year ruled that SF would not form a government with either as a minority party
Dermot, no it wasn’t. Neither FF nor FG are prepared to be the others mudguard. That’s the fear in both of them. SF joining a coalition of either of them would have been happy days.
SF are not the fools the Labour party are. There is some integrity there when power is not worth the price.
Dermot sf is totally different to ff fg it would never work.Where as ff fg are the same.Dermot sf will keep ff fg on their toes the so called civil-war partys wont have full control of the dail any more ff fg will really have to up their game now which will be a good thing.When it comes to ff fg its either sink or swim because sf will not be there to rescue them.Sf know what they want and where they are going.They are serious contenders for future dail.
Before the election . people on here claimed they would pack their bags and leave if sf got into government. Now they are moaning because sf have said they won’t go in as a minority party. As they said before the election.. What’s changed?… Fg and ff have the numbers but some are trying to make it about sf. Really messed up are some.
Bang on dave doyle.Ireland made a hugh mistake putting ff fg back into government those two absolutely ripped the guts out of this country i much prefer sf in opposition as to be a mud guard for those two thieving bankster partys ff fg.sf have more integrity then liebour and way more intelligent tds, ff fg are capitalist enough said.If there is a god,god help us.
Labour manned up and went into government.
SF/PIRA has is only interested in criticism and self preservation.
Too afraid to do what’s right.
Look how labour faired out…
Labour manned up alright. But for who?… It wasn’t the people …
Littleone they are all terrified of sf because sf will take on the big guys and by that i mean the establishment their cosy days are comming to an end.Adams cant be broken not by the British establishment the Irish establishment not even by the mi5.Adams cant be bought off bingo he’s got them money is not his objective all he wants is an united Ireland.In my opinion there ain’t nothing wrong with that._.
Bobby it seems something has changed alright . you can see that here by the comments here.. Those that didn’t want sf any where near government , now suddenly do.. They are like goldfish , forget what they said only weeks ago .. It’s really quite dad , and pathetic for them.
Sad
Diarmuid you should join SF as you need them to support your views. I hope you are on a payroll for you comments – at least you would be contributing. Other than stay where mental health services are better. Rest of us once to move on,
Shame on you all and shame on anyone who calls for this. Call for another election but not this. Ye really don’t care about the vulnerable at all.
Wow….
SF are THAT low in confidence, they think they couldn’t do better than Labour??!
Scared of being exposed shinnerbots?
Neither Jane or Dermot are too sure what they want
Even if FF/FG form a coalition the Sinn Féin Party know full well that it will not get a mandate to govern come the next election. It is obvious now that in spite of manifestos ( thinly disguised lies and vague aspirations) that the people have called the bluff and indicated that a stable FF/FG or FG/FF is the preference. We may have to go through some further optics and general posturing but that is what will happen because that is that is the wish of the electorate.
If there is another election on account of not respecting the mandate given in the last one then both FF and FG should be worried because the the mandate may go elsewhere. It is interesting that on the hundredth anniversary of the 1916 Rising that these parties might ignore the wishes of the people for an end to Civil War based politics.
It’s quiet obvious that you want a coalition between FF and FG Stephen. I don’t understand that.
Michael, the other parties and independents have a chance to involve themselves and if they won’t even try then I don’t see how they can sit in opposition criticising the government and expect to be taken seriously.
Stephen your so pro SF you can’t see their failings in this process.
Belgium managed just fine for over a year without any government. Do we actually need a government?
They actually had the best part of three years without a government
The bond markets disagreed….
The biggest obstacle is whom is left in opposition. This is whats scaring Mr Kenny and Mr Martin..
Gerry wants to be the main opposition party hoping FF and FG f*ck over the next few years and will get him into the Taoiseachs job next election.
It suits people to say sf ruled out going into government but let’s get real here ff/fg did everything they could to destroy sf before the election and they would do the same in government with them with help from the buddies in the newspaper media and their rich friends in rte good old Ryan on 495,000 no wonder he went all out to help his friends during the election
The media bias in this country is brutal,Rte/newstalk played their role well in giving advantage to the two bigger parties,we’ll be totally brainwashed if that turncoat Pat rabbite ever gets into an influential media position…!!
We’re about as close as Jupiter is close to Mars. The gulf is as empty as the space in between.
Hi Jarrett… The space between Mars and Jupiter has asteroids…like the space between Fianna Fail and Fine Gael has hemorrhoids…
You are doing a serious disservice to arse grapes.
We have a caretaker leader of the country who is no longer leader of the country, over in America to hand over a bowl of shamrock to their President to commemorate our country’s national holiday…
How observant of you Observer
Back to the polls we go.
I just hope we go back and vote again I’ll cry if we’re back to the same old same old soul destroying fg, and ff, and sure it won’t be the first time we were sent back to the polls to get it right….
It is obvious that the most representative Government would consist of FG and FF.
Well FF should follow example of SF and not break promise to electorate not to put FG back in power Electorate won’t forgive them if they do
They forgave ff for ruins.g the country
In ‘The Symposium’, Plato explained, “In Greek mythology humans were originally created with four arms, four legs and a head with two faces. Fearing their power, Zeus split them into two separate parts, condemning them to spend their lives in search of their other halves.”
Well, the search is over, at least in Irish political terms. The secret symposium to agree the next programme for government is probably about to begin. But we as citizens won’t get to hear of the finer points of agreement, that’ll be done away from the burdensome gaze of democratic scrutiny.
Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael will, despite all their protestation, most likely form the most like-minded coalition in the history of the state. It is then all the more disturbing that both parties, but especially Fianna Fáil, should as a first principle, contemplate the nature of the opposition it might face in the 32nd Dail.
Perhaps this early display of arrogance is the first sign Plato sought to warn us of? This united monolith, should it go on to form the next government, would do well to consider that the thing they fear may well be brought to pass by their very imagining of it.
The prophesy, a Sinn Fein government, might be seen as a welcome release for a tired electorate, if these two continue into government, the manipulative behaviours being exhibited during its pre-formation?
I don’t admire what FF and FG stand for. They are too neo-liberal in outlook, but a Government must be formed and it should be democratically representative. FF and FG is the combination which is the most representative.
Pre-election promises are empty rhetoric. It’s about not alienating voters. Once elected, the most pragmatically available option has to be availed of. Two right of centre parties just have a few cultural and traditional differences to bridge but that will naturally evolve.
I would like to see a more social democratic outlook become mainstream but that is for a later day when the predations of the Banks, vulture funds and harsh capitalism become more obvious and undeniable.
As FF are clearly not willing to be a minority government party to FG, the only two options are a FF-led minority government with limited support from FG or visa-versa. Both parties are currently trying to shore up support to lead a minority government
Tweety whats the difference between ff fg
personal pensions Bobby ? Bertie was ripped for having 4 or 5 independents and it worked. It won’t work for 20-ish. So another election or just do it. The main fear is not SF leading the opposition but that they continue the civil war charade.
No government and a shed load of industrial trouble coming on stream this will not end well !!
Add a brexit, an escalating immigrant and refugee crisis in Europe during the summer, and top it off with a win for Trump. There’s a lot happening this year.
Every elected representative should be made read John F Kennedy’s Pulitzer Prize winning novel “Profiles in Courage” which tells the story of 7 statesmen who sacrificed their own careers and party membership by making the right decision for the country instead of their own self interest.
OK, ok, I know this is Ireland and shure if Paidi wants to build a golf course on some protected land what harm is in it and isn’t the brown envelope fairly bulky.
” In the interests of the country” a quote our politicians love to spout and then completely ignore. After that last election it’s never more true that we get the government we deserve.
Well said, very true.
Neither side will talk to sf . sf won’t go in with either … Both fg and ff seem to want to control government and opposition.. Both have the numbers for a government but don’t want to be in government with each other or do they say. Just make up your minds and stop dithering…
So they say
So SF can refuse coalition…
But the others can’t?
Tying yourself up in knots Littleshinner…
Nah that’s you diarmuid… You don’t know if your coming or going lately.. See someone for your paranoid delusions. They are not healthy… Off you go now and check under your bed and in your wardrobe for all those shinners you keep seeing.. Delusional.
Sinn Fein need to show a bit of balls here and consider negotiating with either side. If even on a confidence and supply basis
Both refuse to talk to Sinn Fein and have ruled them out
Either side categorically ruled out sf.
Darragh try keep up will ya ff fg ruled out sf
Darragh
your picture on our account with Adams is sad – be it sarcasm or love.
It’s a simple decision …Who can fill their pockets first and get away with it!! It’s all up for grabs. The best little country……….
Fg/ff/sf…hold 117 seats in our Dail..my dog can tell me independent don’t play a part unless one of fg/ff go in to government without sf..or they just go in together…pass the parcel. .
It would seem to signal a more dynamic middle ground between the two parties where older politics is being squeezed out in a world that is changing rapidly and where politics of this nation has to be more adaptive, perhaps not such a bad thing in the long run. It may not happen that the need to change is still not recognized among the major parties and what to do with each other but either a terrible beauty or a terrible mess is being born depending on how a largely conservative outlook and a necessary competitive atmosphere is maintained.
It may be an issue between older and younger politicians within the two major parties rather than any ideological differences.
I actually don’t care. We are probably better off without one, if the offer is FGFF
I like it this way, no government!
Joe Biden’s speech was another of his blunders again, popular Taoiseach lost the election, popular???
this is what happens when you have proportional representation!……
SocDems rule themselves out:
http://us11.campaign-archive1.com/?u=98563bc2f53bc670a2442d07f&id=82de62f57d
GE now,people homeless, poverty,trollies no time for these bloody games.
If Fianna Fail renege on their preelection commitment not to go into coalition with Fine Gael it will leave us with the only option in future and that is SINN FEIN.
You mean like ff fg and labour? Now who’s being hypocritical?
Isn’t it amazing how quickly society has crumbled without our government to guide us :)
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