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The scene in Brussels this afternoon AP/Press Association Images

One dead, four officers injured in shooting during hunt 'for Paris suspects'

Officers in the Belgian capital came under fire during the anti-terror operation.

FOUR POLICE OFFICERS have been injured during an anti-terror operation in Brussels.

It is understood that these were sustained as shots were exchanged.

One suspect has also been shot dead AFP is reporting.

The raids are being carried out as part of an operation to track down the perpetrators of the Paris attack that claimed 130 lives in November of last year.

Police in France are also involved.

Belgium Raid Police securing the area in Brussels earlier today AP Photo / Thierry Monasse AP Photo / Thierry Monasse / Thierry Monasse

Of the injured police officers, three were wounded during an initial search of a property in the southern suburb of Forest while a fourth was hit by gunfire during the huge police mobilisation afterwards, spokesman Eric Van Der Sypt told AFP.

The BBC is reporting that the area is currently covered in police and local access roads are blocked.

Two local schools with around 100 children in them are currently on lockdown.

- Contains reporting from AFP 

Read: Belgian man with ‘direct links’ to Paris attackers arrested in Morocco

Also: On-the-run Paris attacker spotted on CCTV at petrol station the day after the attack

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146 Comments
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    Mute Pt pat
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    Mar 15th 2016, 6:50 PM

    Islam has no place in western society it only brings violence and suffering, I wish our politicians and media had enough cop on to realise this.

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    Mute Stephen Todd
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    Mar 15th 2016, 6:55 PM

    Alright trump

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Mar 15th 2016, 7:03 PM

    And the Catholic religion does., with it’s countless cases of Pedophilia , and then those cases being overlooked does have a place? Many would argue that murder and child abuse is the same level of disgusting.

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Mar 15th 2016, 7:08 PM

    Between 2011 and 2014, there was 746 terrorist attacks in Europe, Eight were religiously inspired, Eight. That’s about or less than 1 percent. Those 8 terrorist attacks were made up of Christians, Jews & Muslims. To paint the entirety of Islam with the brush you use to paint the one percent is not only stupid, it’s dangerous.

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    Mute Peter Fechter
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    Mar 15th 2016, 7:17 PM

    Aaron…ill tell you whats dangerous..sunni wahabi islam..

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    Mar 15th 2016, 7:21 PM

    Aaron…im sure the christians and yazidis of syria and iraq are in total agreement with you..you remind me of the hilarious parody film the life of Brian…” what have the sunnis ever done to us”??

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Mar 15th 2016, 7:24 PM

    Any society based on pure monotheistic worship tends to be dangerous. Thankfully, Wahhabism and it’s ultra – conservative, austere ideals do not speak for the 99% of subscribers of the Islamic faith. Much like neo catechumenate and Orthodox Judaism, Wahhabism is a branch of a religion, not THE religion. That’s what people fail to understand.

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    Mute Seán Domhnall O'Sullivan
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    Mar 15th 2016, 7:26 PM

    Aaron,your liberalism is naive.

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    Mute Pt pat
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    Mar 15th 2016, 7:28 PM

    Aaron the definition they use for terrorism is clearly not the one that is in common use ,we all know their was not 746 terrorist attacks in which people died in Europe in that time. Just think about the terror attacks in Europe that killed the most people in the last ten years and with the exception of the Breivik attack they were all committed by Muslims. Oh and Muslims are a tiny percentage of the population of Europe so they shouldn’t be so heavily represented.

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    Mute Peter Fechter
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    Mar 15th 2016, 7:31 PM

    Aaron..im not “failing” to understand anything…im totally hip to most non-jihadi,non-wahabbi,non-takfiri,non-sunni,non-radical muslims.

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Mar 15th 2016, 7:31 PM

    Using a nation rife with conflict and on the verge of being designated a failed state thanks to it’s failed leader, as an argument against Islam is pretty moronic. That’s right, it didn’t just burst into chaos all of a sudden and it wasn’t thanks to the Muslim faith, it was a slow descent into chaos, thanks to it’s dictator. Do you want me to go into what the Western World has done to Innocent Muslim people? Have you not heard of the Afghan War or the Iraq war, the entire war on terror? how about the crusades? So if less than 1% of all muslims, I do mean that by the way, it less than 1%, far less commits acts of terror then by your standards the entirety of the Islamic faith is violent? Ok, all Catholics are pedophiles, obviously.

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    Mute Stephen Todd
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    Mar 15th 2016, 7:32 PM

    I think to brush law abiding Muslims in Europe as dangerous is dangerous in itself. Take the Muslim family that were petrol bombed in their home in Belfast, it’s a dangerous narrative to run with

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Mar 15th 2016, 7:34 PM

    Pt Pat, so Europols definition of terrorism is not the one in common use? I think Europol is far more qualified to define what terrorism than you are. Thanks for your input though.

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Mar 15th 2016, 7:36 PM

    Everybody, forget the police intelligence agency of the EU, Pt Pat has got us covered, he clearly knows what he is talking about.

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    Mute Peter Fechter
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    Mar 15th 2016, 7:36 PM

    Aaron..conservative and austere? Are you serious? I think its time someone assisted you to youtube a conservative and austere bunch of sunni wahabbis known to their neighbours as DAESH…

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Mar 15th 2016, 7:39 PM

    Yes Daesh, otherwise known as ISIS, IS or ISIL subscribes to Wahhabism? As I said, Ultra conservative, vastly different to conservative. Why not correctly quote me? I do not support sunni wahhabism. I know that Isis subscribes to Sunni Wahhabism, what are trying to get across or are you trying to troll?

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    Mute Al Ca
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    Mar 15th 2016, 7:39 PM

    Well Aaron…do people not matter in other parts of the world?…
    10,000 terrorist attacks world wide in 2013 alone and of those..the four main groups were responsible for 66% of all deaths from terrorist attacks in 2013: Al-Qaeda, the Taliban, Boko Haram and the self-styled Islamic State.

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    Mute Peter Fechter
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    Mar 15th 2016, 7:40 PM

    What nation are you hinting at Aaron?

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Mar 15th 2016, 7:41 PM

    You are implying that I do not think Sunni Wahhabism is inherently evil, I do think it is inherently evil. I do not think that the entirety of Muslims are evil or violent, much like I do not think all Catholics are pedophiles.

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    Mute Peter Fechter
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    Mar 15th 2016, 7:41 PM

    You can put away your troll accusation…

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    Mute von
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    Mar 15th 2016, 7:44 PM

    Pt Pat. Its true we should help these people but in their own Countries , we have nothing in common with them and they have nothing in common with us.

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Mar 15th 2016, 7:45 PM

    The nation you suggested, Syria? Al Ca, I presume you are sourcing from this BBC article? http://www.bbc.com/news/world-30086435, an interesting read. If you read it, it says “All four groups used “religious ideologies based on extreme interpretations of Wahhabi Islam”". Now if you read above, you will see what I say about Sunni Wahhabism, an ultra conservative, austere, evil ideaology, which represents about 1% or less than of the Islamic faith. How does 1% speak for 100%? It doesn’t.

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    Mar 15th 2016, 7:49 PM

    Al Ca, if you read even more closely you will notice the word “extreme” sitting right next to interpretations, it is based on how you interpret a religion, 99% of Muslims do not interpret it violently. Much like the I.R.A used an extreme interpretation of republicanism, these people are using an extreme interpretation of Islam, specifically Wahhabi Islam. We don’t brand everyone who wishes for a sovereign 32- county Ireland a terrorist do we? I already know exactly what the the rebuttle will be

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Mar 15th 2016, 7:52 PM

    That 66% you are using as an argument are not your every day Muslims, the Muslims that make up 99% of the faith, no they are about 1%. If you read it for what it is and understood what a Sunni Wahhabi Muslim is, you wouldn’t have posted that.

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    Mute Pt pat
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    Mar 15th 2016, 8:05 PM

    Where are you getting that 99% figure from Aaron, according to Pew research 66% of Pakistani Muslims and 84% of Egyptian Muslims believe that apostates should be killed. I wouldn’t call that a peaceful interpretation.

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    Mute Pt pat
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    Mar 15th 2016, 8:08 PM

    Oh and do you know what Europols definition of terrorism is I couldn’t find it anywhere, then again transparency was never one of the EU’s strong points.

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    Mute Peter Fechter
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    Mar 15th 2016, 8:12 PM

    Aaron..i didnt “suggest” any country..i referred to syria and iraq as places where yazidis and christians are murdered by sunni muslims….not as failed states..nor did i refer to any dictator.

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    Mute Al Ca
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    Mar 15th 2016, 8:14 PM

    Five countries – Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Nigeria and Syria – accounted for 80% of the deaths from terrorism in 2013. More than 6,000 people died in Iraq alone.
    India, Somalia, the Philippines, Yemen and Thailand were the next five, with between 1% and 2.3% of global deaths by terrorism.

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Mar 15th 2016, 8:25 PM

    http://www.vocativ.com/news/251821/muslims-terrorist-attacks/ if you read it the stats are from Europols figures. Muslim population of Pakistan: 174,578,558. 66% of that is 115,221,848 plus Egypt of 80.47 million, 84% of that is 675,948, 00 added together that is 182, 816,648. Global population of Muslims: 1,703,146,000, 1 percent of that is 17031460, so maybe 1.2% considering 2% is 34062920? I wasn’t exactly very wrong looking at your stats. Thanks for that though! :) Genius. Now where are your sources that back up your claim?

    Peter Fechter, you don’t need to refer to a dictator nor failed state for me to understand that you are using a failed state, failed by it’s dictator, as an example of how muslims are inherntly violent people.

    Al Ca, yes, as your article backs up my point, that is Wahhabi Islam? An extreme interpretation of Wahhabi Islam is to account for those deaths. Exactly my point, thank you! You always seem to indirectly kill your own argument!

    By Pt Pats standard, Catholic religion has no place in western culture, nor does republicanism, unless he supports terrorism and pedophilia?

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Mar 15th 2016, 8:25 PM

    Pt Pat, I just adore how you must have thought you were so smart putting figures up thinking it disproves my point, it’s cute.

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Mar 15th 2016, 8:30 PM

    Al Ca & Pt pat, thank you for providing sources killing that same argument ye were each making in the same comment, that is a special, special talent. Use it wisely. To Peter, I still don’t understand what you are trying to get across, maybe you need to phrase things better? I have an important meeting now, I’ll be back soon

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    Mute Al Ca
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    Mar 15th 2016, 8:35 PM

    Always?…exaggerate much Aaron.
    In many countries where Islam takes hold as the majority religion, other religions die.

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    Mute Pt pat
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    Mar 15th 2016, 8:38 PM

    Sorry it is 76% in Pakistan and 86% in Egypt, here at some more figures on the percentage of Muslims who think apostates should be killed seen as you think they are so cute. Afghanistan 79%, Iraq 42%, Bangladesh 44%, Jordan 82%, Turkey 17%, Lebanon 46%. http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/

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    Mute Peter Fechter
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    Mar 15th 2016, 8:42 PM

    Aaron..you do me a gross injustice,on another thread today i applauded syrias integrity and praised president Bashar Al Assad for the loyalty he commands from his people..that and his statesmanship and tenacity.to ascribe erroneous views/opinions to me is wrong and is an attempt to misrepresent me…why Aaron? What purpose could that serve?

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    Mar 15th 2016, 8:45 PM

    Aaron..you understood more than you are comfortable admitting…

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    Mute Rowe
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    Mar 15th 2016, 9:01 PM

    “How about the Crusades” Aaron you need to read up on History and pull your head out of the sand.. The Crusades were a RESPONSE to Islamic aggression in the mid East and to stop the expansion of Islam in to Europe..look up the ‘gates of Vienna’ or ‘King Jan Sobeiski’ for if it wasn’t for him you would be more than likely be a Muslim now yourself.. And don’t forget ‘Jihad’ has been ongoing since the foundation of Islam by Muhammad the false prophet.. You are very naive Aaron.

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    Mute gregory
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    Mar 15th 2016, 9:07 PM

    After 20years of uncontrolled multi-cult policy u end up with large slums/ghettos with high unemployment rate where muslim populations stick together. So very difficult to find the culprits. Mollenbeek alone has 100k population and is largely muslim. Average unemployment rate in these area is c. 60%.

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    Mute Rowe
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    Mar 15th 2016, 9:12 PM
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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Mar 15th 2016, 9:22 PM

    Pt Pat, ok so maybe, 2% to 3% of the global Muslim population? So around 97% of Muslims disagree with this ideology. So it’s fair to paint islam with the same brush you paint the 3% with? Again, all Catholics are pedophiles? That’s not fair.

    If you want I can do the calculations, because the real figure sits at probably maximum 2.1%, so 97.9%?

    With every comment, you are proving my point more and more. You may have knocked about 2% off my estimate, yet strengthen my point that the overall, over-whelming majority of Muslims do not subscribe to this extremist view. What do you think of republicanism in the western world, do you think all of us who support a United Ireland are terrorists? I doubt it.

    Peter, you can’t be serious, are you being sarcastic or what? You do actually support Bashar?

    Al Ca, I don’t think I’m exaggerating. Give me a source please.

    Rowe, honestly you are probably right about the Crusades, I am not too knowledgeable about the event, I shouldn’t have used it as an example and even had second thoughts after.

    Pt Pat, you are the only one semi-worth arguing with. So do you agree that all republicans are terrorists and all Catholic priests are pedophiles? You believe all Muslims are inherently violent, you believe it has no place in the Western World, does Catholicism and it’s pedophilia, does republicanism and it’s car bombs?

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Mar 15th 2016, 9:29 PM

    Sunni-Wahhabi Islam may have no place in Hyper Developed Western Nations, but Islam does and so does the 97.9% of Muslims who do not adhere to the violent ideology. Painting the 97.9% of Muslims with the same brush as the maybe 2.1% makes you a horrible human being. Anyone that makes that sort of generalization cannot be very intelligent.

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    Mute John
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    Mar 15th 2016, 9:33 PM

    People really need to stop believing the news media when they blame every terrorist attack on Muslims. What proof Muslims were involved in Paris? None that I’m aware of.

    And ISIS? The Freemasonic God. Nice little in-joke there. Like when the CIA named Al-Qaeda (google it) ‘The Base’, shorthand for their database of proxy mujahedeen in Afghanistan.

    They laugh their heads of at how easy we are to manipulate – and we can’t get enough of it.

    ISIS – the terrorist army that nobody had ever heard of until one weekend in July two years ago when we are told they took over the northern half of Iraq – a country with permanent US military bases – in the course of four days in July. Yeah, sure they did. How feffin stupid are we?

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    Mute Peter Fechter
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    Mar 15th 2016, 9:36 PM

    Rowe….”likely be a muslim yourself”…i wonder…

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    Mute Peter Fechter
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    Mar 15th 2016, 9:39 PM

    Aaron…we dont really believe president Al Assad cares whether i “support” him or not do we?

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Mar 15th 2016, 9:41 PM

    Then why did you bring it up? I never implied you supported him, you just came out saying you support him, I suppose you support chemical weapons being used on citizens as well.

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    Mute Pt pat
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    Mar 15th 2016, 9:42 PM

    Aaron your maths is way off 11.5% of all Muslims in the world live in Pakistan and 76% of them believe apostates should be killed so even if no Muslims outside of Pakistan thought apostates should be be killed it would still be 7% of all Muslims who do think they should be killed.

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Mar 15th 2016, 9:43 PM

    You were quite clearly blaming Islam for both the scenes we see in Iraq and Syria, where it is essentially the USA’s fault that Iraq is the way it is, not Islam and the situation in Syria arose from political matters, not Islamic, the Arab Spring.

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    Mar 15th 2016, 9:47 PM

    Aaron..if my “support” could prevent the shia and other non wahabbi muslims being slaughtered by the 90+ gangs recently brought to heel by the russian airforce then yes…i would consider offering my “support”.

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    Mar 15th 2016, 9:50 PM

    Ah the arab spring…such a quaint,discredited concept/construct….dont hear it much anymore….

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    Mar 15th 2016, 9:53 PM

    Aaron..YOU say i am quite clearly….you misrepresent me quite liberally..

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    Mute WesternAtheistRadFem
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    Mar 15th 2016, 9:56 PM

    Aaron, as a refugee from Africa, I know for a fact the Islam has something to do with my family leaving…
    I was looking after some “muslim” offsprings recently, my son was with me, and when I went to change his nappy, this muslim lady asked her children to look away and not stare, they are all under six and I thought WTF, f me sideways I am done tolerating this shit. thats all religion is and ever will be, shite.

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Mar 15th 2016, 9:56 PM

    11.5% of 1,703,146,000 is greater than the entire Pakistan population. So that makes no sense whatsoever. It’s greater by quite a bit in fact.

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Mar 15th 2016, 9:58 PM

    Western, I dislike Religion to, I tend not to subscribe to any, but I believe painting all Muslims with the same brush for the actions of a tiny, tiny, tiny minority is borderline crazy.

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    Mute Aaron O'Leary
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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:00 PM

    So taking the Pew Research stats into play and compensating for me making a mathematical error a while back (stupid error) it comes to about 7%-10% more than likely sitting at 8-9% if even. so 91% of Muslims are being unfairly generalized by you. Ok

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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:04 PM

    I know, I know, I kind of spam comments, I apologize, I always seem to think of another point. As I said, Sunni – Wahhabi Islam has no place, this maybe 9% more thank likely subscribes to the ideology of Wahhabi Islam. Islam itself is vastly different and it’s people are not violent and do have a place in Western Culture, again you’re proving my point. Stop doing that. You never answered my questions: You believe all Muslims are inherently violent, you believe it has no place in the Western World, does Catholicism and it’s pedophilia, does republicanism and it’s car bombs? I expect an answer

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    Mute Marlowemallow
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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:07 PM

    The period 2006-2014 was carefully chosen. It excludes the Madrid bombings in 2004, the London bombings in 2005 and cuts off just before the Charlie Hebdo murders in January 2015 and the Paris attack in November 2015.

    I’ve read the Europol report that the article Aaron posted linked to. The short version? It doesn’t say what he claims it says.

    Here’s 2014: 201 terrorist attacks were reported. 50 of those were reported by France in relation to Corsican separatists – the attacks all occurred in Corsica. 17 reported by Spain related to their ethno-separatists.

    Criminal damage to property and arson are included in the definition of terrorism here. Almost all of the ethno separatist terrorist acts were aimed at state security services or unoccupied property not civilians. Terrorism by left wing extremists was similar. An attack on an unoccupied car is reported as one terrorist incident.

    There were only 4 deaths from terrorism in Europe that year –a jihadist shooting 4 Jews dead in Belgium.

    A total of 774 individuals were arrested for terrorism related offences. The largest proportion of arrests was linked to religiously inspired terrorism (395).

    Another little statistical quirk is that France only classified attacks as religiously inspired if they concluded that it was the sole motive. Cases where it may have been part of the motive were excluded. France has motive and form for manipulating such statistical niceties:

    “EU Member States reported two completed terrorist attacks specifically classified as religiously inspired terrorism for the 2014 period. A religious reference was invoked in other completed attacks. However, these attacks were not classified in the same category by the relevant EU Member State… From 20 December onwards, a number of other incidents took place in quick succession, in which the perpetrators alluded to religion or IS. France reported that the assailants were possibly only partially motivated by ideology and appeared to be psychologically unstable.”

    But the really interesting bit was buried in the footnotes:

    109 attacks were reported by the UK. That’s 109 out of a total of 201. The UK refused to specify what type of terrorism their 109 attacks related to. We have no idea how many, if any, of those 109 were religiously inspired. The report therefore essentially ignores them and excludes them from its nice easy to read tables. So, when it says there were two religiously inspired attacks that year, it is excluding over 50% of the entire reported data.

    Even the cheapest scientist for hire would be embarrassed to have produced that kind of report. The writer of the article in Vocatif either didn’t bother to read the underlying reports carefully or he didn’t understand the data. Or he’s intentionally attempting to mislead because he knows that just about nobody reads those kinds of underlying reports.

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    Mute WesternAtheistRadFem
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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:09 PM

    okay, have you hear of sam harris?

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    Mute Pt pat
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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:12 PM

    10% of 1,700,000,000 is 170,000,000. There are 1,700,000,000 Muslims , the Muslim population of Pakistan is around 175,000,000 therefore ~11% of all Muslims in the world live in Pakistan. It is very simple maths and the amount of Muslims who think apostates is well above 7% or 8% it is closer to 50% and it’s not like that’s the only problem with Islam.

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    Mute WesternAtheistRadFem
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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:12 PM

    Aaron, this article is a bout islamic terror.

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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:12 PM

    Aaron…the ‘Always’ was in response to your “You always seem to indirectly kill your own argument!”

    As regards your references to Cathoicism v’s Islam. If you were to choose to live in a country dominated by one or the other…which one would you choose?
    We have managed to break the grip of the church, which is not as repressive as Islam…why should we import or support a religion such as Islam which would bring us back decades if not centuries in tolerance. In a christian country a Muslim could approach a Catholic priest and call his God fake and there would be no issue…..if a Catholic priest(or any christian) said that to an Imam in a Muslim country, there would be a very serious situation for the christian, perhaps life threatening.
    I’m not fan of any religion but I know which one would be more tolerant of others beliefs.

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    Mute WesternAtheistRadFem
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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:13 PM

    heard*

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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:14 PM

    Marlow, if you read it you would understand that it is not a report? It is a collection of reports each with on average 50 pages ya? It’s not a one page report

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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:17 PM

    11.5% of 1,703,146,000 is 195, 861, 790 the entire Pakistan population is 182.1 million.

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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:18 PM

    Turn off Fox News lads will you? This is from mein kampf if you replace Jew with Muslim, hopefully you’ll realise your horrible and blatant bigotry

    “The Jewish youth lies in wait for hours on end…….spying on the unsuspicious German girl he plans to seduce……….He wants to contaminate her blood and remove her from the bosom of her own people. The Jew hates the white race and wants to lower its cultural level so that the Jews might dominate. Was there any form of filth or crime…without at least one Jew involved in it.”

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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:21 PM

    Aaron..”i expect an answer”…to whom is that command directed?

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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:21 PM

    Yes, I know what it was in response to.

    I would choose Catholicism, obviously but that isn’t the point at matter, if Islam has no place in the Western World then why does the Catholic faith with it’s countless cases of pedophilia?

    We are talking about tolerance and Pt Pat is more tolerant of pedophilia then generalized violence.

    On your point about Islam setting us back, no body here including me is advocating for us to support Islam, I am advocating for tolerance of Islam, for tolerance of the vast majority of Innocent Muslims.

    Answer me this: Does the Catholic faith now still have a place in the Western World?

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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:22 PM

    Paul, of course you’ll be able link us to evidence of hundreds of Jews attacking women in gangs.

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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:23 PM

    Paul, they won’t listen, they think blatant generalization of nearly 2 billion people is acceptable. It’s ok, all Irish people are masked republican terrorists alongside being Catholic pedophiles.

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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:28 PM

    8% of Turks,
    9% of Pakistanis,
    11% of Senegalese,
    11% of Malays and
    20% of Nigerian muslims;

    had a favourable opinion of IS in 2015

    62% of Pakistanis don’t know what their view on it is.

    This 1% vs. 99%, Wahhabism vs. mainstream Islam is simplistic to the point of ridiculousness. It does no one any favours. The first step in any sensible response to a problem is to get out of denial and confront the reality of it.

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/17/in-nations-with-significant-muslim-populations-much-disdain-for-isis/

    21% of Turks say IS represents Islam
    10% say IS is not a terrorist organisation.
    5% agree with their actions

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/almost-10-of-turks-say-isis-not-terror-organisation-survey-1.2494033

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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:33 PM

    How many times do I have to say this, in just Afghanistan, Egypt and Pakistan their are around 230 million Muslims who think apostates should be killed, it is perfectly reasonable to not want people who hold those kinds of believes anywhere near you.

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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:39 PM

    Of course that is reasonable Pt pat. I agree with you, I too do not want these people anywhere near Europe. But Islam as a whole, the vast majority of Islam? Islam in it’s entirety? Well that’s just being paranoid.

    Pt pat and Marlow, evidently, from the countries ye have listed as examples, those opinions are not solely religious, a matter of fact they weigh heavily on political scenes in the country, look at the government and previous governments of these countries, now look at the age distribution and then look at the current governments. Turkey until recently was borderline supporting ISIS as a government for gods sake.

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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:39 PM

    So nabetius, judging by that answer you don’t deny being a bigot who’s thought process is similar to that of a right wing fascist? Do you have complete nazi tendencies as well?

    The fact of the matter is, that I probably couldn’t find such a thing, purely because if a Jewish person or persons breaks the law they’re reported, if in a foreign country, as a foreign national. The same goes for any other religion.

    Mainstream media whether intentionally or not stigmatise Islam these days, so if a Muslim breaks the law, chances are that their religious faith is going to be thrown in to the article.

    This then leads to people (who find it hard forming their own opinion) to hate and to marginalise big groups of people. So I’ll say this, a small fraction of this massive religion are terrible humans and you believe that it’s now comparable with western society?

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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:40 PM

    Aaron,

    You might want to check the auld sums on your worked example: around 180 million out of around 1.7 billion is over 10%.

    There’s 1000 millions in a billion.

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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:41 PM

    Let’s look at the Muslims already in the Western World, they are innocent people, surely they deserve a place in the Western world Pt pat? No, you disagree with that.

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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:42 PM

    Yawn…

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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:43 PM

    Paul, you can’t find such a thing because Jewish men don’t go around in large groups trying to gang rape women in public.

    You may want to rewrite the rest of your comment because it’s a complete mess.

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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:44 PM

    Blatant generalization Aaron ? , Islam is still stuck in the 12th Century , there are daily examples of this Medievalism towards Women , Gays , Infidels etc , forced marriages , honour killings , the list is endless but while we have useful idiots who defend it with the look at ‘ what Catholicism did to us ? we know this and for the most part they are back in their box , you need to open your eyes son , spend a weekend in Malmö and tell us how assimilation is going on there

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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:44 PM

    11.5% of 1.7billion is 195million. Pakistan muslim population is 174,578,558

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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:45 PM

    Yes, I was referring to the 2014 report. I didn’t read each year because the flaws in 2014 are clear and extensive enough that I have no intention of wasting my time reading the other years. I am aware that reports can have more than one page… I just lost an hour of my life I can never get back trawling through that one.

    I’ll take it from your response that you didn’t bother to read a word of those reports. You took the vocativ article as gospel because it suited your agenda. You can’t defeat racism through intellectual laziness and dishonesty.

    I suggest you leave opposition to racism to those who actually give enough of a shit about it to read the odd dull report and exercise their grey matter every now and then. But lazy self-righteousness is more fun of course.

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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:46 PM

    Mike, I have, Malmo is nice. There is about 11’000 iraqis out of a population of 265’000, great example!

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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:48 PM

    Aaron..while i cant claim to know every muslim currently extant..i am able to admit that i would hazard the opinion that the majority are decent koran abiding people who want no more than to live with their families in peace.YOU continue to infer that i hate ALL muslims though earlier i clearly stated that im sympathetic and empathic toward muslim victims of other muslims – jihadi wahabbi sunni muslims – that is NOT blatant generalisation of nearly 2 billion people….however you try to spin or misrepresent it.I am definitively not “supportive” of muslims who themselves “support” abubaker shekau,al shaabab,boko haram,jabhat al nusra,ahrar al sham,daesh,army of conquest,AQIM etc.

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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:50 PM

    2% of respondents in Pakistan believe al-Qaeda were responsible for 9/11.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polls_about_9/11_conspiracy_theories

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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:52 PM

    Pardon me, my large dyslexic thumbs make typing on a phone a pain.

    What I was basically saying Is that intolerance of a vast number of people is ridiculous, for what is being caused by so few. And that the media is helping to breed this intolerance.

    Look at the millions of Muslims that live in the west quite happily. Tarring them all with the same brush is quite frankly, moronic

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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:52 PM

    Tell us why it is the rape capital of

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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:53 PM

    Peter, I never said you hate all Muslims? I am neither in support of sunni wahhabism, but it is a small minority, and the countries being listed out with a substantial minority of Muslims who support Isis and the killing of Apostates are for the most part not westernized countries. For a real analysis, we should be looking at Muslims already living in the Western World, I struggle to imagine that they feel the same way. Hang on, I’ll go ask my neighbour.

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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:54 PM

    In the UK 50% of Muslim men and 75% of Muslim women are unemployed and 25% of all prisoners in high security prisons are Muslim so they are on average a far bigger burden than contributor. In Sweden since mass Muslim immigration the rate of rape has gone up 1402% and all crime up 300%. Events like Cologne, Rotherham and Paris wouldn’t have happened if there wasn’t mass Islamic immigration so I don’t think they have a place in the Western world unless they came here legally, have skills that will make them employable and will respect and integrate into western society.

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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:56 PM

    Marlow, Yes I did put my faith in the Vocativ article as I had a meeting quite soon and wanted to get a response out to blatant generalization. I’m reading it now, and I will be reading all of them.

    Back to your stats, wouldn’t it make more sense to analyse opinions of Muslims already in Western Cultures, not muslims in countries so incredibly alienated from the western world? Maybe with the exception of Turkey.

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    Mar 15th 2016, 10:57 PM

    Lovely , would it being the rape capital of the West be part of its attraction Aaron , 40% of the population being Muslim might play a part in those stats

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    Mar 15th 2016, 11:02 PM

    Well, obviously no body will disagree with you there. The high unemployment rates can possibly be attributed to Employer attitudes when they see Muslim – sounding names, much like it happens to African Americans in the USA, infact I would wager that is one of the major reasons. How many travelers are unemployed? We tolerate them.

    Pt pat, I only ever support legal migration of citizens who adapt into the culture they situate themselves into albeit keeping aspects of their own culture aswell. No where in that sentence does it suggest that Islam has no place in the Western World.

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    Mar 15th 2016, 11:04 PM

    Mike, the Muslim population of Malmo accounts for 20% not 40%?

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    Mar 15th 2016, 11:06 PM
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    Mar 15th 2016, 11:08 PM

    Paul, it’s reasonable to be intolerant towards people who believe in and practice the kind of disgusting guff contained in the Koran.

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    Mar 15th 2016, 11:09 PM
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    Mar 15th 2016, 11:09 PM

    Mike to explain Malmo, it is because of how Sweden records each rape case separately, not how Muslims rape everybody.
    There are two major problems with these statistics.
    I. “In Sweden there has been this ambition explicitly to record every case of sexual violence separately, to make it visible in the statistics,” according to Klara Selin, a sociologist at the National Council for Crime Prevention in Stockholm. “So, for instance, when a woman comes to the police and she says my husband or my fiance raped me almost every day during the last year, the police have to record each of these events, which might be more than 300 events. In many other countries it would just be one record – one victim, one type of crime, one record.”
    http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-19592372
    This technical note renders this whole comparison meaningless, but let’s go further, because the second point is more interesting.

    II. As everyone who has ever studied criminology knows, in the case of rape, there is insane latency rates. If there is willingness to report rape, the number will skyrocket in any country. In countries where rape remains associated with a strong taboo and a high level of shame, the propensity to report such offences probably tends to be lower than in countries characterized by a higher level of sexual equality. The findings of the 2000 International Crime Victims Survey indicate that the respondents’ satisfaction with the police is above average in Sweden. Sweden has also been ranked number one in sexual equality.
    In addition, there is also the issue of the broad legal definition of rape in Sweden.
    If you are going to assess how much of a hellscape Sweden has become as a result of immigration based on a single piece of statistical data, I advise using another violent crime where latency is significantly lower; just to be one step closer to the truth, if that matters at all. There is the murder rate, for example:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#/media/File:Map_of_world_by_intentional_homicide_rate.svg

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    Mar 15th 2016, 11:12 PM
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    Mar 15th 2016, 11:13 PM

    So what’s the real rate? Elusive, as always. I have no doubt that the mass influx of migration has increased the rape rate of Malmo, much like the migration of Irish during the famine increased the crime rate in the USA (No one ever wants to hear about this)

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    Mar 15th 2016, 11:16 PM

    That’s not half good enough. You obviously haven’t read the Pew reports either. And you’re now attempting to move the goalposts from Muslims globally to Muslims in the west. You realize that’s not how debate works right?

    The denial, laziness, carelessness with facts and superiority complex of many so-called anti-racists actually causes bigotry and racism. People are not stupid – they see when the emperor has no clothes. Unfortunately, being human, they may then conclude that all anti-racists are untrustworthy, deceitful and manipulative and reject pretty much everything they say. The tribe of self-righteous concern trolls bear heavy responsibility for how that ends.

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    Mar 15th 2016, 11:18 PM

    Keep at it Aaron useful idiot and all that , until Islam reforms itself it will cause nothing but conflict in the World , Women have fought long and hard to be treated equally as have Gays , allowing hordes of culturally backward Muslims in to the West will cause nothing but trouble

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    Mar 15th 2016, 11:21 PM

    Aaron.. Islam was founded by a paedophile no? Muhammad ‘thighed’ his six year old wife Aisha, when she was 9 he consummated the marriage… Not only that, he was a slaver, a war monger who destroyed his own fathers tribe for his personal gain, captured men whether they be Jew, Christian or other would have their wives and children raped in front of them, then the men would be beheaded in front of the raped and beaten women who then were sold into slavery if they were lucky… Sickening I know but all historical fact and written in their book the Koran and Hadiths… now tell me who do Muslims all over the world revere and wish to emulate? Wahhabi Islam is a dangerous Ideology far worse than Nazism or Stalinist communism.

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    Mar 15th 2016, 11:25 PM

    Mike, no where in my argument have I advocated for allowing “hordes” of Muslims into the EU.

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    Mar 15th 2016, 11:26 PM

    Naberius, they’re not all extremists there’s millions of them that don’t follow the medieval shite that the likes of ISIS do. what would you say to a Buddhist, Jewish person or Muslim that thought the westboro baptist church was representative of the entirety of Christianity?

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    Mar 15th 2016, 11:28 PM

    How was the stroll through the Rosengard district, the district where the local police cannot freely enter?

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    Mar 15th 2016, 11:30 PM

    There is clashes often, but Police can enter.

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    Mar 15th 2016, 11:32 PM

    Marlow, I haven’t even been arguing at all with you in this thread, considering you proved me wrong. I understood that from the beginning, I think it makes sense questioning the Muslim opinions in the Western world considering that is what this argument is about,

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    Mar 15th 2016, 11:34 PM

    Paul, I didn’t say that all Muslims are extremists.
    If someone claims to be an actual Muslim then they are following the ravings of 7th century madman – a rapist, a murderer, a paedophile, a thief – just like ISIS.

    If someone asked me about the Westboro Baptist Church, I would point out that they are a fringe group with not much in the way of apparent support outside of the couple of dozen members of that church.

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    Mar 15th 2016, 11:48 PM

    Islamofascism, puts the west to real shame. But sure aren’t they all allies…lovely countries like Sudan. My parent’s are awful and unbearable because of Missionaries. Seriously my da was fine when he was an animist, wasn’t sacrificing anyone but islamist look down at him for being black and non islamic. But low and behold, christianity makes then makes them into disgusting human beings.
    Be wary of all religions and their so called followers. Thats my motto this month :)

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    Mar 15th 2016, 11:51 PM

    Infact Marlow, I wasn’t going to bother, but the Pew research survey you linked proves my point about the absolute vast majority of Muslims not supporting a violent ideology. In no country surveyed did it go over 15% support, the USA has had more support for the KKK then any of these countries has had for ISIS, in fact it shows that Muslims globally have an overwhelming negative view of ISIS.

    I do understand that you wern’t trying to disprove the fact that the over all majority of Muslims don’t subscribe to the same ideology that these terrorists do, so this comment isn’t necessarily aimed at you. I do get that you were rather just pointing out the fact that my 1% claim was wrong.

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    Mar 16th 2016, 12:04 AM

    If a large percentage of Muslims were actually hostile to Westerners, we would be totally swamped by terrorist outrages in the West.

    Demonising most Muslims will risk the danger of becoming a self fulfilling prophesy.

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    Mute Patrick J O'CONNOR
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    Mar 16th 2016, 12:05 AM

    @Aaron O’Leary……”Ye shall know them by their fruits!”
    ———————–95% Pakistani Muslim truckers abuse runaway kids!
    Question for you Aaron!
    ———————–Do 95% of Irish Catholic Truckers abuse runaway kids?
    —” In one survey alone, 95% of truck drivers admitted having sex with boys was their favourite entertainment during rest breaks.—”
    http://www.channel4.com/info/press/news/pakistans-hidden-shame-documentary-to-air-on-channel-4
    And it’s pandemic in all the Madrassas across the Muslim world!
    Compare that with the 4/5% of convicted priests ,etc. But,of course you won’t be able to compare the conviction rate because paedophilia was Mohammed’s thing and what Mohammed done is the example for all the faithful to follow.

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    Mar 16th 2016, 12:08 AM

    funny, I think that most countries is appeasing all religious creeps of all shades.

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    Mute WesternAtheistRadFem
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    Mar 16th 2016, 12:09 AM

    are*

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    Mar 16th 2016, 12:10 AM

    Fiona, terrorism is not the only means of expressing hostility.

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    Mar 16th 2016, 12:12 AM

    You sure Aaron? Sure that you didnt “cause” Mike to “understand” …to imply or infer to Mike that you “meant” hordes of muslim paedophiles into the EU? Awful if you are misrepresented or misquoted if you didnt mean to say hordes of murderous muslims..

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    Mar 16th 2016, 12:15 AM

    And thats the truth folks. religious cleanings. Between the zombie worshippers and the pedo lovers, its’s like what f next?

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    Mar 16th 2016, 12:15 AM

    @Aaron O’Leary………Try listening to a Muslim on the actual number of extremists in Islam. Your 1% is a ludicrous fig.and you know it. Watch the Video and all will know the real %’s.
    -
    -
    http://www.peoplespunditdaily.com/news/video/2015/12/11/sunni-muslim-raheel-raza-radical-islam-by-the-numbers/

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    Mar 16th 2016, 12:17 AM

    Permission to comment here teacher?

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    Mar 16th 2016, 12:24 AM

    Peter, in no way did I misrepresent nor misinterpret you. I honestly haven’t understood you in this entire argument, it’s like you just went off the rails completely after your comment about Syria and Iraq.

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    Mar 16th 2016, 12:28 AM

    Aaron…”methinks he doth protest……”in your sham denial resides a faux insult…

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    Mar 16th 2016, 12:29 AM

    Good night, Peter.

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    Mar 16th 2016, 12:32 AM

    out of curiosity where are you getting those figures? And the definition of terrorism used? Not picking a fight here, im genuinely curious.

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    Mar 16th 2016, 12:36 AM

    There was no set definition of terrorism being used, I used the stats provided by Europol, on what they deem as terrorism. The figures, for the terrorism again Europol and Vocativ, the 1% is just a common figure used if I’m being honest with you, it resonates more with the amount of terrorist acts committed since 1970 involving Muslims.

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    Mar 16th 2016, 12:39 AM

    in comparison to global muslim population, sorry.

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    Mar 16th 2016, 12:42 AM

    West…i dont know..powerful stuff..

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    Mar 16th 2016, 12:57 AM

    not really.

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    Mar 16th 2016, 4:24 AM

    let’s build a wall

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    Mar 16th 2016, 7:44 AM

    @Pt pat……And also that women should be put and kept in their place..
    Yesterday in old Pakistan we have the following report from Robert Spencer’s Jihadwatch. Please subscribe to his daily newsletter to get the stories behind the facts from world expert on Islam.
    -
    —”An all-parties conference convened by Pakistan’s oldest Islamic political party and attended by powerful religious groups asked the government on Tuesday to retract an “un-Islamic” law that gives unprecedented protection to female victims of violence.

    The Women’s Protection Act, passed by Pakistan’s largest province of Punjab last month, gives legal protection to women from domestic, psychological and sexual violence….

    But since the law’s passage, many conservative clerics and religious leaders have denounced it as being in conflict with the Muslim holy book, the Koran, and the constitution.–”
    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/03/pakistan-major-muslim-orgs-say-law-protecting-women-from-abuse-is-un-islamic

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    Mute Marlowemallow
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    Mar 16th 2016, 8:41 AM

    I get to be super condescending because I proved that you have no clue what you’re talking about on this subject. If Islam is to have a place in Europe people had better learn about it. Once people are willing to deal with the real problems within Islam we might actually get somewhere.

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    Mute YoucancallmeAl
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    Mar 16th 2016, 12:16 PM

    John, take off the tin foil hat. The origin of Al Qaeda as the vanguard Islamic extremist group is well documented. What proof Muslims were involved in Paris? Well the identity of the attackers has been confirmed by every European intelligence agency, but I’ll assume you don’t believe what you read in the mainstream media. You’re also very mistake with regards to the evolution of IS. Since AQI split with AQ and the awakening in Iraq they have been on the radar…it wasn’t a surprise. What was a surprise was how quickly the Iraqi security forces crumbled. If not for the Kurds their progress would have stretched further.

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    Mute jinn
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    Mar 15th 2016, 7:55 PM

    Islamic attacks in ivory coast,Belgium,Germany and Canada in the last two days. There is something seriously wrong with Islam. There is something seriously wrong with people who cant make the link between Islam and violence. 99percent are peaceful bit they read the same book as the murderous 1 percent.

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    Mute WesternAtheistRadFem
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    Mar 16th 2016, 12:26 AM

    https://soundcloud.com/samharrisorg/inside-the-crucible-syria-and-the-islamic-state it’s a cancer that only the west wants to eradicate therefore nothing will happen.

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    Mute Kop Jaffer
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    Mar 15th 2016, 7:39 PM

    That would be an ecumenical matter !

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    Mute Seán Domhnall O'Sullivan
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    Mar 15th 2016, 7:19 PM

    What Peter said.

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    Mute gregory
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    Mar 15th 2016, 9:10 PM

    Brussels: Islam a real and present danger- watch this;

    https://youtu.be/ZDKk15KcqNk

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    Mute WesternAtheistRadFem
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    Mar 16th 2016, 12:18 AM

    Wow, the fact that I am surprised by this scares me :o

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    Mute Peter Fechter
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    Mar 16th 2016, 12:25 AM

    Western…tell us about yourself..

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    Mute WesternAtheistRadFem
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    Mar 16th 2016, 12:34 AM

    no thanks?

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    Mute WesternAtheistRadFem
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    Mar 16th 2016, 12:39 AM

    You must be slow? radfem means radical feminist.. maybe you don’t know what that means?

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    Mute Peter Fechter
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    Mar 16th 2016, 12:44 AM

    No clue…

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    Mute WesternAtheistRadFem
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    Mar 16th 2016, 12:55 AM

    I’m a man hater. who doesn’t believe, refuged west ways.
    jesus how old are you?

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    Mute Peter Fechter
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    Mar 16th 2016, 1:10 AM

    Eh to young to no what a man hater is and refuged west ways…

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    Mute WesternAtheistRadFem
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    Mar 16th 2016, 1:19 AM

    Right, I’m just testing out ideas, since I can’t be an anarchist. long story.

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    Mute WesternAtheistRadFem
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    Mar 16th 2016, 1:27 AM

    your not too young to have never looked at a map, or read women’s history I hope? enlightenment? you must know something :/

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    Mute Dermot Mc Carthy
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    Mar 16th 2016, 12:40 AM

    Not all muslims… blah blah blah. What about the crusades?….blah blah. Remember the KKK?…I know this muslim lad and he’s sound..

    You don’t fix a problem by concentrating on what’s NOT causing it. Wake up

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    Mute WesternAtheistRadFem
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    Mar 16th 2016, 1:02 AM

    exactly.it’s like it’s group think, because they don’t know what they are all individually up to, they doubt, deny, deflect etc etc catholic church ” we didn’t understand what child rape is/was?” I’ve heard christians say that. hard to say if its ignorance or just pure evil. but maybe ignorance is evil in this day and age.

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    Mute Peter Fechter
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    Mar 16th 2016, 1:05 AM

    Id go with evil.

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    Mute Brendan Cooney
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    Mar 15th 2016, 7:07 PM

    Have a feeling similar sentiment is felt about Christianity in an awful lot of other countries, particularly those with resources we want! Countries with oil, metal ores.

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    Mute Brendan Cooney
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    Mar 15th 2016, 7:12 PM

    I think there are a lot more people who think similar thoughts about Christianity. Both at home and abroad! To be honest Christianity has an awful lot more to answer for!

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