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Waking the Feminists inspires documentary on gender inequality in the Irish arts

We chatted to its makers.


Them's The Breaks / Vimeo

A NEW DOCUMENTARY on gender inequality in the Irish arts is being made following the launch of the Waking the Feminists movement.

Young film graduates Sarah Barr and Aoife Kelly (producers), Sarah Corcoran (director) and Stephen Elliott (writer) have teamed up to create Them’s the Breaks, which they hope will help in the effort to bring about gender equality in the arena.

With the documentary, they want to “expose and examine gender inequality in Irish theatre and the arts”.

Them’s The Breaks critiques and explores the many reasons and ways women have been forgotten both in our national history and on our national stage.

“The title comes from a tweet that Fiach Mac Conghail of The Abbey Theatre sent during a Q and A session on twitter regarding the Waking The Nation programme,” said Barr.

“He said: ‘Sometimes plays written by women don’t work out… Them’s The Breaks’. We thought it was a perfect example of the attitudes that exist in our society towards women. It demonstrates the unconscious bias that exists in people’s minds and how they don’t examine their own privilege. Fiach himself admitted that this was where he went wrong and apologised on the day of Waking The Feminists in The Abbey.”

For Barr and the Them’s The Breaks team, the project is all about education, showing people “this isn’t just people moaning – it’s a real thing, it’s an actual problem”.

Waking the Feminists

12/11/2015 Waking The Feminists Waking the Feminists at the Abbey Leah Farrell Leah Farrell

One female artist out of 10 programmed for The Abbey Theatre’s Waking The Nation centenary programme.

The makers of Them’s The Breaks seek “to examine why this is and ask how we, as a progressive society may begin to create a more inclusive and equal Ireland”.

Sarah Barr told TheJournal.ie that she, Corcoran and Elliott were all involved in the DCU masters course in TV and film. After finishing up in September, they were looking for jobs and decided to get involved in a project that was socially engaged and relevant to their lives.

At the same time, the Waking the Feminists movement, spurred on by Lian Bell, emerged.

“We decided this was a project we were passionate about,” said Barr. “We could relate to it so we thought it was something so important to document.”

1508607_1695487320665813_5686340927011380863_n Lian Bell Them's the Breaks Them's the Breaks

They have already interviewed figures including Bell, journalist Una Mullally and writer and playwright Belinda McKeon, and have now launched a Fundit campaign to raise money for the project.

The documentary’s purpose is twofold – to document the Waking the Feminists movement as it happens, and also to bring issues around gender and the arts to a wider audience.

“We want to explore the wider arts, not just focus on theatre,” said Barr. “We will also go into film and art, even journalism. Because it’s across the board, this inequality and gender bias. Once you start picking away at it you just see it is everywhere.

For example we were looking into stats, and to find out there are only four female Irish directors who have more than three feature films made… We didn’t realise that starting this. And for every one female on screen there’s 2.24 males.

“We want to look at what has been done and what will be done,” said Barr. That includes talking to people in organisations like the Irish Film Board and Abbey Theatre. They hope to film until at least November of this year.

12821428_1692339974313881_4688951675530960891_n Actress Olwen Foueré (left) Them's the Breaks Them's the Breaks

How will funding help Them’s the Breaks get made? Barr said that the money raised on Fundit is “just a small portion of what the film will actually cost”. The majority of the money will go to post-production, as well as equipment rental, legal details, licensing, copyright and payment of crew.

Confidence issue

The documentary will explore the issues around why women aren’t represented at certain levels of the arts.

“It’s ingrained in our psyche that men are better writers,” said Barr. “It’s a confidence issue as well. You always look at people to inspire you for your career choices. With novelists, there are loads of really amazing writers. With films, you don’t see it – it’s just not as apparent. The ‘greats’ are men, and that’s what’s been given and it’s the same with theatre. So you really have to fight to look for someone to look up to. I think that has a lot to do with it.

Even with film it’s seen as a man’s industry, it’s hard work, it’s outdoor, it’s not stable, it’s not conducive to family life. These industries are not conducive to raising children. There’s no stability in your job – that’s a huge problem especially in theatre.

“I think for women in the industry it feels like such a hard slog at a certain point where so many walls are being put up, and you see your male counterparts who have the same education and same training having a much easier run of it. It’s very hard to keep producing creatively when that’s the case.”

“I really hope this film can really shed light on that and really expose what it’s like to be a woman working in the arts,” said Barr. “And also what we can do to make it a level playing field.”

She said that although the issues of unconscious bias and gender inequality are worrying, “for me I try my best to focus on the positive things and try and do things like this.”

I think the way of dealing with that is to question it and make sure the conversation doesn’t peter out slowly… making this film is just my way of making sure that things change for myself as well as for other women.

“The intention of this film is 100% to inspire change and to make sure people are aware that this is happening as well. 

“The hope is it will spill over into industries,” said Barr.

The Fundit campaign for Them’s The Breaks is online here

Read: ‘People tell me my book has changed their life’>

Read: Fury, apologies, and calls for respect as feminists shake the Irish theatre world>

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133 Comments
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    Mute Bobby Ewing
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    Mar 21st 2014, 6:55 AM

    All you Chelsea fans take note. Your owner could be next to be sanctioned and assets frozen in london putting the club in a very serious financial situation.

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    Mute Colonel Randy H.Orny
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    Mar 21st 2014, 7:42 AM

    Note taken… Now Bobby back to your room,get a dictionary and read a definition of a word NAIVE…and then explain it to the brigade of green thumbs. Bye bye.

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    Mute Jeremy Usbourne
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    Mar 21st 2014, 9:50 AM

    The Chelski owner played a clever game.

    Fearful of getting on Vladi’s bad side like other oligarchs rotting in Jail he expatriated his money to London (£7-£8 billion at the time).

    He is now a UK citizen, so any wholesale sanctions on oligatch wealth would not apply to him.

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    Mute Bobby Ewing
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    Mar 21st 2014, 6:27 PM

    Tosser

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    Mute Fergal Reid
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    Mar 21st 2014, 6:49 AM

    Crimea river.

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    Mute Fergal Reid
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    Mar 21st 2014, 6:49 AM

    Sorry.

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    Mute Glen
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    Mar 21st 2014, 6:52 AM

    It’s getting old fergal

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    Mute Bill
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    Mar 21st 2014, 8:07 AM

    Russia shares a huge land border with Ukraine America is approx 8000 kms what amazes me is how easily we accept American interference in this

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    Mute Rob Gill
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    Mar 21st 2014, 9:48 AM

    If the US invades Mexico then we can talk about this again – I don’t think sharing a border bestows a right to invade. Presumably Bill you don’t think the UK has a rightful claim to Northern Ireland – despite the majority in Northern Ireland wishing to remain part of the UK, yet you think Crimea have a right to break away from Ukraine and join Russia…I would have thought Irish nationalists would be on the side of Ukraine here…

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    Mute Sean O'Keeffe
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    Mar 21st 2014, 7:19 AM

    Patriotism in its simplest, clearest, and most undoubted meaning is for rulers nothing else but a means of realizing their ambitions and venal ends; for the governed it is a renouncing of human dignity, intelligence, and conscience, and a slavish submission to the rulers. Wherever patriotism is championed, it is preached invariably in that shape. Patriotism is slavery
    Leo Tolstoy

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    Mute Padraic O'Dwyer
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    Mar 21st 2014, 7:48 AM

    Top German business leaders have warned against sanctions, and are urging the government not to implement them. ( Klaus Mangold, chairman of the Ost- Ausschuss) The present trade volume between Russia and Germany lie’s by 57 billion Euro’s. Apart from this Russia is Germany’s third largest trade partner, with direct investment from companies such as Mercedes,Siemans etc reaching 22 billion in 2013 and many plans for future investment. If this is interrupted by the implementation of sanctions it will be a major loss for Germany’s industrial sector, and our Angela will have a conservative estimate of around 300.000 jobless people on her streets.
    Sanctions could also hit the USA hard. http://scgnews.com/russia-threatens-to-drop-the-dollar-and-crash-the-us-economy-if-sanctions-are-imposed-obama-signs-sa
    Ron Paul, one time Republican presidential candidate has an interesting take on Crimea.
    Ron Paul http://rt.com/usa/ron-paul-crimea-secedes-610/

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    Mute Richard boyle
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    Mar 21st 2014, 8:18 AM

    Ron Paul is a nutcase bigot blowhard he doesn’t really matter in any debate , scraping the bottom of the political spectrum there .

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    Mute DigitalA
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    Mar 21st 2014, 7:58 AM

    Did the Crimea not vote by a huge majority to join Russia? With representatives watch the watch to ensure it was above board.

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    Mute Richard boyle
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    Mar 21st 2014, 8:01 AM

    Nope ….

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    Mute trebloc01
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    Mar 21st 2014, 8:07 AM

    Yah. 96% of 50% including those who voted early and often plus the Russian visitors

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    Mute DigitalA
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    Mar 21st 2014, 8:09 AM

    So you’re saying foreign representatives who were watching the vote for authenticity colluded with Russia? Is that your opinion?

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    Mute DigitalA
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    Mar 21st 2014, 8:09 AM

    So you’re saying foreign representatives who were watching the vote for authenticity colluded with Russia? Is that your opinion?

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    Mute trebloc01
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    Mar 21st 2014, 8:23 AM

    I don’t know why he wants Crimea sure he can’t look after his own. Russians amount the top 3 fleeing their homeland along with Syrians & Afgans.

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    Mute Richard boyle
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    Mar 21st 2014, 8:24 AM

    Yes you may recall UN observers were not allowed into Crimea , if you look at the list of ” observers” allowed in by Moscow you can google them and see why they were chosen . To suggest that this was a fair election is as dumb as waving a flag for a country who has its soldiers remove their insignia before menacing another sovereign state . 2nd world garbage

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    Mute trebloc01
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    Mar 21st 2014, 8:24 AM

    There was no foreign reps.

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    Mute angryzes
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    Mar 21st 2014, 9:02 AM

    >There was no foreign reps.

    Lies and it is very easy to prove.

    I just see here a lot of blind repeaters of general policy of the Party. You are no different from old communist propaganda you always condemn.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/referendum-monitor-criticizes-u-s-involvement-crimea-n53646

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    Mute Petes Tuppence
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    Mar 21st 2014, 9:04 AM

    and they didn’t have a choice to stay as part of Ukraine. ..

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    Mute White Fang
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    Mar 21st 2014, 9:08 AM

    Again, Petes, lies.

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    Mute Richard boyle
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    Mar 21st 2014, 9:11 AM
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    Mute White Fang
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    Mar 21st 2014, 9:20 AM

    “Choice 2: Are you in favour of restoring the 1992 Constitution and the status of Crimea as a part of Ukraine?”

    That is the literal translation of option two on the ballot. Tell me again, how exactly was there no option to remain in Ukraine?

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    Mute Richard boyle
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    Mar 21st 2014, 9:24 AM

    ‘Observers’
    The letters EODE actually stand for Eurasian Observatory for Democracy and Elections, and it declares on its website that it shares the values of “the current Russian leadership and V.V. Putin.” It had apparently managed to persuade a whole group of European nonentities that it was a respectable organisation, however, including Fabrizio Bertot, an Italian member of the European Parliament. “I’m not in charge of them, they just invited me. I know just the name, that’s enough. It’s the Eurasian Observatory, so I’m here to observe,” he told me after giving a press conference to a thicket of Russian television cameras.

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    Mute Richard boyle
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    Mar 21st 2014, 9:34 AM
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    Mute Rob Gill
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    Mar 21st 2014, 9:34 AM

    Well all the representatives were members of far-right European parties, Serbian Ultra-nationalists or members of the former Soviet parties in Eastern Europe -who had expressed admiration for the USSR. More people voted than were eligible to vote. Draw your own conclusions.

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    Mute Rian Lynch
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    Mar 21st 2014, 9:36 AM

    That link isnt in anyy way helpful its just two tweets. Doesnt identify the observers or their country of origin

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    Mute Rob Gill
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    Mar 21st 2014, 9:37 AM

    yes neo-nazis, Serbian nationalists and members of the Soviet parties of Eastern Europe -all who share the values of Putin… No OSCE members were allowed access? Shots were fired at them to prevent their entry to crimea – WHY? any answer to that white Fang?

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    Mute Richard boyle
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    Mar 21st 2014, 9:37 AM

    They did but it was not a clear choice as to what constitutional status this would involve the original or amended status .

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    Mute Rian Lynch
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    Mar 21st 2014, 9:38 AM

    Because the Crimean parliment had already said they’d vote to join Russia. So thats option 2. Either the people vote to join Russia or the parliment will

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    Mute Rob Gill
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    Mar 21st 2014, 9:43 AM

    “Tatjana Ždanoka was one of the leaders of the Interfront, a political organization opposing Latvia’s independence from the Soviet Union and market reforms. She remained active in the Communist Party after the party leadership called for a coup against the elected government of the Latvian SSR in January 1991 (opposing democratic reforms and independence of the country)”

    “Hubner is a member of theFar-right Austrian Freedom party. In February 2012, Hübner visited along with his party colleagues Johann Gudenus visited wanted Chechen dictator Ramzan Kadyrov. The visit called massive criticism from, among others, Amnesty International and the Greens”

    “Srdja Trifkovic – In 1994–95 he acted as an “unofficial spokesman” for the Bosnian Serb government. A great bunch of lads…has been criticised as a islamaphobe…
    Pavel Chernev – nive image of this guy ripping up Kosovo’s flag on youtube. Prominent Russian supporter.
    Mateus Piskorkski – self described ‘ultra-nationalist’ linked to a skinhead neo-nazi publication and condemned for promoting neo-nazi ideas.
    Stadler -member of Austrian freedom party

    Funny how Putin claims to have acted to prevent the spread of fascism -yet his observers are former Stalinists and fascists.

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    Mute Jeremy Usbourne
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    Mar 21st 2014, 9:54 AM

    Good turnout in Sevastopol area.

    123% by official tallies.

    Crimea:
    58% Russian
    80% Turnout
    95% endorsement.

    That’s North Korean levels of support.

    Nothing to see here…. Move along!

    Click here….. Interesting!

    http://oi62.tinypic.com/15hbl2b.jpg

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    Mute Rob Gill
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    Mar 21st 2014, 10:13 AM

    Jeremy, can you ask the CIA to pass me on some funds? – since we are all US/CIA stooges – we might as well get paid for it!! You know, us brainwashed fools, that think a country having freedom to conduct elections without foreign troops in its land or the freedom to choose to sign an agreement with a trading bloc is actually a good thing…The fact we think Mr Putin is not a defender of democracy and liberalism and that it might be better to live in Poland rather than Belarus means we are just CIA pawns….Thankfully we have people like Angry and Cal to see us right…

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    Mute CMac59
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    Mar 21st 2014, 11:01 AM

    Yugoslavia freed itself of German rule earning itself the hatred of Germany’s as Tito adopted a brutal policy to the SS units send to “pacify” his country. Germany never forgave him even though he kept Stalin out of Yugoslavia. after Croatia broke away from Yugoslavia Germany and Austria immediately recognized it and gave 1 billion in military aid. And look what happened to the Balkans!

    The west broke up Yugoslavia as quickly as possible in order to control it. The Kossovo Liberation Army, a banned terrorist group, “invited” the us in. Now a huge US military complex is located on in Kossovo. This is the policy the west is following against Russia.

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    Mute CMac59
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    Mar 21st 2014, 11:08 AM

    Jeremy Usbourbe

    The percentage of th vote cast for the reunion with Russia is that of the votes cast in the referendum. So if 60% of the people cast their vote it is quite valid that 95% of those votes could be for reunion. If non-Russians already a minority boycotted the referendum then it is quite possible that the referendum would carry by a substantial majority.

    The 95% of the votes cast are of the say 60% of people who cast their ballot.

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    Mute Watcher-on-the-Wall
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    Mar 21st 2014, 11:18 AM

    @White Fang – “Choice 2: Are you in favour of restoring the 1992 Constitution and the status of Crimea as a part of Ukraine?”.

    A very clever ploy – up until this crisis kicked off, Crimea was operating under the 1998 Constitution.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_constitution

    So, while there was technically an option to remain in the Ukraine, it was cunningly presented as a retrograde step, not as an option to maintain the status quo.

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    Mute Rob Gill
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    Mar 21st 2014, 11:58 AM

    Still strikes me as odd, that those who support Russia’s annexation, main argument remains ‘oh well the West have invaded countries’…It’s the classic cliche -two wrongs don’t make a right. 90% of Ukrainians voted for independence -including a majority of Russophones and ethnic Russians – why isn’t that respected by Russia? The Pro-Russian lobby can’t make an argument on its own merits beyond vague muttering of ‘Fascists in Kiev’ -despite the fact Yanukovich was the greatest fascist of them all -and that Crimea was always Russian -a spurious and disturbing argument that is generally used a pretext for land grabs such as the Sudtenland. Putin could have waited for elections in May and then dealt with a legitimate government to ensure the rights of the Crimeans were protected. But a stable Ukraine does not suit hie ‘realpolitik’ view of the world…

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    Mute Rob Gill
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    Mar 21st 2014, 10:02 AM

    Putin has gained Crimea and lost Ukraine. Putin applied pressure and bribery on Yanukovich to abandon the EU association agreement. With the EU-Ukraine pact signed he has lost the long game. In the long run, Crimea (which is in a USSR time-warp like Trans-niestra) will be allowed to be subsumed by Russia while the remainder of Ukraine will forge closer ties with Europe. The true defeat of Putin will be the emergence of a successful democratic Ukraine (like Poland) in contrast to a failed autocratic state like Belarus -that has friendly relations with both the West and Russia. The only one who speaks of a ‘them or us’ scenario is Putin. Meanwhile – sanctions mightn’t have a major effect on Russia -but downgrades, the removal of Russia from the G8 and the markets hitting the ruble will further cause damage to an ailing Russian economy. Russia is not in as strong a position as it was 10 years ago with sky-rocketing oil and gas prices, due to fracking and alternative fuel sources -within another 10 years Russia will be an economic basket case unless Putin is removed and replaced by a leader who wishes to co-operate for the global good rather than act in a Cold-war zero-manner. Putin should read up on Nash’s theorem. Putin is like a Ruyard Kipling cold war warrior -who has just woken up and doesn’t realise that international co-operation is the way forward.

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    Mute CMac59
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    Mar 21st 2014, 10:52 AM

    Russia followed the west after 1991 and it was ignored as the US followed its global ambitions as, in its own words, “the only superpower in the world”.

    It was the west that invaded Yugoslavia, Iraq, Afghanistan. With the world’s economy in a poor shape we don’t need another recession. The western credit agencies are following the US governments whims. Iraq oil is embargoed and now they want to do the same to Russian oil. This will suit America which has cheap oil.

    Crimea is historically Russian. It was autonomous even within Ukraine. It is reverting to Russia. This may upset the West and NATO – why does NATO still exist the Warsaw pact treaty ended over 2 decades ago – who saw their fllets and troops in Crimea. The nest Russian leader will not revert what Putin has done as its the people’s will. Time we realize not all states are cats paws for western interests.

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    Mute Watcher-on-the-Wall
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    Mar 21st 2014, 11:36 AM

    Whatever about Iraq & Afghanistan, Yugoslavia is not a valid example, since it was a UN-sanctioned action. It may have been NATO troops on the ground, but since Russia holds a veto, they were there with Russian approval.

    As for Crimea, it was probably inevitable that it would revert to Russia, but the manner in which it has happened has been heavy-handed, and there are several reasons to be dubious as to whether it was really the will of the people of Crimea.

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    Mute Rob Gill
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    Mar 21st 2014, 11:38 AM

    America doesn’t care about Russian oil anymore – it is completely self-sufficient….Northern Ireland is historically British then by your logic…Crimea was part of the ottoman empire longer than it was part of Russia and was ‘won’ by force under Catherine the great. This is Russian imperialism. The only important people here are the Ukrainians and the majority want closer ties to the West. NATO exists to defend and is the only thing preventing Russian troops from agitating in Latvia, Estonia (which you may consider Russian). These countries chose freely to join NATO and the EU -Putin will not give ukraine that choice
    Russia need not fear NATO but the new NATO countries fear Russia… You mentioned three brutal dictatorships that the West invaded (they didn’t invade Yugoslavia by the way -once again a UN mandated mission to prevent the slaughter of Bosnians and Croatians by a country armed and supported by Russia) .

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    Mute Mick Jordan.
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    Mar 21st 2014, 1:33 PM

    Rob is right in what he says about Russia winning the battle but losing the war.
    I believe Putin completely misread the mood of the Ukrainian people when he gave them “the them or us ultimatum”. He most likey thought yes there will be a few annoyed people but they will get over it. But he got it totally wrong. Had he played the long game and let Ukraine sign the EU deal but came with a better deal with no strings and no ultimatums to run parallel with the EU deal his boy Yanokovich would still be in power and Russia would still have influence. I suspect he had a long term plan for Crimea that eventually Yanokovich or one of his successors would have quietly signed over Crimea with no fuss or fanfare. But Euromaidan turned that plan on it’s head. And the thoughts of losing Crimea completely made him react out of anger that Ukraine would dare turn their back on him.

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    Mute CMac59
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    Mar 21st 2014, 7:51 PM

    Croatia broke away from Yugoslavia and immediately Germany and Austria recognized the breakaway state. They gave it 1 billion in military aid. Then civil war broke out in all the former Yugoslavia.

    Yugoslavia is an excellent example of how a state was broken up by the west. Kosovo, an integral part of Serbia was taken from Serbia as the then banned terrorist organization “invited” the US in. A hige US military base exists and Kosovo is in a state of utter disorder.

    Quote from article cited below by DIANA JOHNSTONE

    Five years ago, I wrote a paper for a Belgrade conference commemorating the tenth anniversary of the start of the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia. In that paper I stressed that the disintegration of Yugoslavia had been used as an experimental laboratory to perfect various techniques that would subsequently be used in so-called “color revolutions” or other “regime change” operations directed against leaders considered undesirable by the United States government.

    At that time, I specifically pointed to the similarities between the Krajina region of former Yugoslavia and Ukraine. Here is what I wrote at the time:

    Where did the wars of Yugoslav disintegration break out most violently? In a region called the Krajina. Krajina means borderland. So does Ukraine – it is a variant of the same Slavic root. Both Krajina and Ukraine are borderlands between Catholic Christians in the West and Orthodox Christians in the East. The population is divided between those in the East who want to remain tied to Russia, and those in the West who are drawn toward Catholic lands. But in Ukraine as a whole, polls show that some seventy percent of the population is against joining NATO. Yet the US and its satellites keep speaking of Ukraine’s “right” to join NATO. Nobody’s right not to join NATO is ever mentioned.

    The condition for Ukraine to join NATO would be the expulsion of foreign military bases from Ukrainian territory. That would mean expelling Russia from its historic naval base at Sebastopol, essential for Russia’s Black Sea fleet. Sebastopol is on the Crimean peninsula, inhabited by patriotic Russians, which was only made an administrative part of Ukraine in 1954 by Nikita Khrushchev, a Ukrainian.

    Rather the way Tito, a Croat, gave almost the whole Adriatic coastline of Yugoslavia to Croatia, and generally enforced administrative borders detrimental to the Serbs.

    Source: http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/21/ukraine-and-yugoslavia/#.Uyw6vj5uPyU.twitter

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    Mute Watcher-on-the-Wall
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    Mar 21st 2014, 8:18 PM

    Not that it has much of an effect on the trust of the piece you have quoted, but a quick Wiki seems to suggest that rather than there being a region called ‘Kajina’, it would seem that the word itself means ‘region’.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krajina

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    Mute Mick Jordan.
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    Mar 22nd 2014, 12:53 AM

    CMac. Slovenia was the first to break away the Croatia. Serbia then attacked Croatia to land grab. Let us get the history right. Yugoslavia was hobbled together after the first world war. Slovenia and Croatia were part of the AustroHungarian Empire, Bosnia, Macedonia and Kosovo were part of the Ottoman empire. And Serbia was independent but reliant on Imperial Russia. The Croats and Serbs have been enemies since the middle ages. And were only held together for as log as they were by force from Tito. When he died it was only a matter of time before they split and old hatreds spilled over.

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    Mute Rob Gill
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    Mar 21st 2014, 9:51 AM

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Irish-Ukrainian-Solidarity-Group/1465432587008013 – for people who want to support Ukraine’s right to self determination and the freedom to sign treaties as a sovereign state with other countries according to the will of the majority.

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    Mute Rob Gill
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    Mar 21st 2014, 10:07 AM

    haha red thumbs, obviously some people are against a country wanting self-determination and freedom to choose its own path….

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    Mute Joe Corleone
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    Mar 21st 2014, 10:54 AM

    Self Determination Haha nice try, see it as changing puppets out for more puppets, all it is really.

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    Mute Rob Gill
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    Mar 21st 2014, 12:04 PM

    not a fan of democracy Joe are we? If the Ukrainians want to have association with the EU and not have their future decided by the ‘motherland’ what is your objection to that? Do you honestly think – like the smelly, pothead Flanagan, that Ireland would be better off if we had never joined the EU and continued as a small isolated island?

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    Mute Anti Moaners
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    Mar 21st 2014, 1:29 PM

    What about the same right to self determination of the Crimea People?

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    Mute Rob Gill
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    Mar 21st 2014, 1:36 PM

    if it was a free and fair vote -then of course they have the right to self-determination, as do the other countries Russia have prevented (or have tried to prevent) gaining self-determination such as Chechyna and Kosovo. But it wasn’t free and it wasn’t fair with no impartial foreign observers and it was rushed with a confusing ballot paper that could only have led to one outcome – re-unification with Russia rather than autonomy for Crimea.

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    Mute Mick Jordan.
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    Mar 21st 2014, 1:47 PM

    Anti. How do you explain the vote. Unless the Dead, Children, thoes with mental disabilities and foreign nationals voted the numbers they got are mathematicly impossible.

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    Mute CMac59
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    Mar 21st 2014, 7:54 PM

    Rob Gill

    What referendum was held by Ukraine that wanted a union with NATO? None.

    Ukrainians do not want to join NATO. But NATO wants to be in Ukraine.

    I thought NATO said it would abolish itself after the Warsaw pact ended! It was never going, it was always going to expand contrary to its promise not to drive eastwards.

    NATO is a military organization not a democratic one.

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    Mute Mick Jordan.
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    Mar 22nd 2014, 12:56 AM

    CMac. Has Ukraine applied for NATO membership? It may come as a surprise to both NATO and the Ukrainian Government if they have. So I wonder where you have gotten your info from.

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    Mute Mick Jordan.
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    Mar 22nd 2014, 1:00 AM

    Btw. CMac. The deal NATO signed with Russia was for them not actively seek members from the old Warsaw pact. It said nothing about the old Warsaw Pact members actively seeking to join NATO.

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    Mute Lm group
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    Mar 21st 2014, 7:45 AM

    Putin must be bricking it, here come fitches, run away run away

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    Mute trebloc01
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    Mar 21st 2014, 8:01 AM

    Russians are 1 of the top 3 along with Syrians & Afghans have the largest number of people fleeing their homeland. That says it all.

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    Mute Rob Gill
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    Mar 21st 2014, 10:04 AM

    he will be – when he can’t raise capital on the international markets. LM the 1990s called to remind you communism has passed away -Sorry.

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    Mute Rob Gill
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    Mar 21st 2014, 12:27 PM

    UN Secretary General says ‘sovereignty, unity and territorial integrity’ of Ukraine must be respected.

    Wonder what objection people can have to that?

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    Mute Mick Jordan.
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    Mar 21st 2014, 12:34 PM

    I posted this the other day. Put for those that may have missed/ignored it.
    Even Russia’s allies don’t support the invasion of Crimea. And are now nervous about their own borders.
    http://m.belarusdigest.com/story/belarus-refuses-support-russias-invasion-ukraine-17082

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    Mute Eel Knack Mole
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    Mar 21st 2014, 10:08 AM

    The EU approach as of this morning:

    Some personal sanctions for annexing Crimea, but if Russia moves against any other region, full trade embargoes will be imposed.

    One word people – Sudatenland

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    Mute Eel Knack Mole
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    Mar 21st 2014, 10:08 AM

    Accidental double post – please delete.

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    Mute FlopFlipU
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    Mar 21st 2014, 8:11 AM

    Mr o Dwyer the Germans have a problem so ,they either hold with Europe which they own or go against Russia ,Fitch will have to look at the German situation and put ratings on it

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    Mute Richard boyle
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    Mar 21st 2014, 8:28 AM

    What ?

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    Mute Jeebus xrist
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    Mar 21st 2014, 7:29 AM

    A bit of a coincidence, eh??

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    Mute Avina Laaf
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    Mar 21st 2014, 8:02 AM

    No, not really.

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    Mute trebloc01
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    Mar 21st 2014, 8:29 AM

    It’s Stalin’s way or Pootin’s way.

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    Mute Eel Knack Mole
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    Mar 21st 2014, 10:05 AM

    The EU approach as of this morning, which has not really been dealt with on this site, appears to be that they are imposing few penalties for annexing Crimea (personal sanctions only), but if Russia attempts to annex any other area then full trade embargoes will be applied.

    One word for you – ‘Sudatenland’

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    Mute Alan Cusack
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    Mar 21st 2014, 6:46 AM

    R

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