This had to be the dumbest story ever published in the Journal: it assumes a vulture fund poised to make a squillions is going to say ok let’s do the right thing and walk away

Ya the laws were never broken for big business, developers, banks, hedge funds etc etc

Wow Wally, doesn’t take you long to step into a totalitarian zone.. What about due process and the individual’s property rights? I wonder, where dyou draw the line? Is anyone’s property fair game?.. How dyou decide who gets the property itself, I assume friends of the socialist regime are first on the list? What if the individual doesn’t want to hand over the property, what then? Use of force to get them out? Buying and selling of houses is a part of life, and these individuals are in a tough spot. However, they have got six months to move, and the house owners are entitled to sell, a right enshrined in our constitution.

Tell us Kal. What laws would the state be breaking?

And you may have missed this but the government actually formulates the law. So for example, Michael Noonan made it quite legal to convert €31 billion of Anglo promissory notes into sovereign debt when he bulldozed through the necessary legislation in a midnight emergency bill in Feb 2013 in front of a Dail full of drunken TDs.
Isn’t it interesting how the law is often used as a stick to beat down the majority working class but legislation is rarely an impediment when the interests of the capital owning elite need protecting?

@An Beal Bocht,
There are laws for bondholders,bankers and vulture funds..and there are different laws for ordinary citizens.
What’s new.
The only place you have ever seen a pin stripe suited banker/Irishman in jail is in …yes- America.!

“What about due process and the individual’s property rights?”

Stupid comment. If you owe the state money, they can seize your property, save for the roof over your head. In this instance we have developers who owe the state more than the properties are worth being bailed out by the taxpayer via NAMA, and good tenants who are paying their rent losing the roof over theirs.

As Mick Wallace stated in the Dail, you couldn’t make it up. If it were one of the little people, revenue would be all over everything that wasn’t nailed down to recoup the debt. But these lads are close to the political establishment. This is not a true Republic.

Wally
Not a legal person but the EU courts have made it very clear. I am sure you can’t name a law saying they can.
If you want to dry up any investment in building try it. The state can’t provide it.
Your claims are all void of fundamental understanding of economics. Your desires aren’t going to happen as they are ludicrous. Doesn’t matter who agrees here.

Fair enough, then the state can take them to court and look for an order for possession. Unfortunately, rules in this country are very pro-mortgagor so it will take you between one and five years to successfully repossess but, sure look. Wally, the law referenced is the constitution, which protects individuals right to property in two separate locations. Let’s not forget when it was that that piece was written – 1937. An era where Joseph stalin was still in power and doing his vest to display how the removal of property rights is a removal of human rights. The main issue I have here though is that these individuals aren’t even poor, they should really be able to find somewhere else. I honestly have no idea why the state would bail them out..

So yet again the people of Ireland will be on the hook for the cost here. Great for the residents if this gets sorted out but it shows who pays for failure here.

Most likely the original developer had millions owed in loans written off, NAMA then step in (the state own the houses at this point). NAMA use our money to Spend what it takes to get the development up to a standard that it can be sold.
The development is sold at a massive discount to the vulture fund ( costing us more compared to selling the houses individually). Finally we, through the council, buy them back for far more than they were sold for!
No wonder the rich are getting richer. It is funded by all of us chumps.

Kal,

Stop spoofing please. What exactly have the EU courts made very clear?

“If you want to dry up any investment in building try it.”

We don’t need any more “investment” (exploitation) by the private sector in housing.
What we need is massive state intervention to address the catastrophic failure of the market to meet the housing needs of the people. And the state most certainly can provide that if it chose to do so instead of “incentivizing” the market parasites.

The state owns NAMA, the largest landlord in Europe. The state owns AIB, the largest bank in Ireland. The state has an offer of €5 billion from the credit unions to invest in social housing. The state has tens of thousands of Irish construction workers home and abroad looking for employment in Ireland.
Are you getting the picture Kal?

Wally one slight flaw in your argument for the state to seize the properties: the bank involved in this case is the non-indigenous Ulster bank, a U.K. Entity, and therefore not bailed out by the Irish state

Gov / nama sell to vulture fund for knock down price, few years pass and the Gov / council buy back at an inflated price, madness!!!

The government don’t care, a majority of TD’s have invested in the property market and it is in their vested interest to see property prices increase.

Chucky,

I’d be very interested to hear more about Josef Stalin’s role in drafting our constitution?

And let’s not get too dewy eyed and reverential about the constitution in any case. It was drafted by De Valera and other right wing reactionaries with significant input from the extremist bishops like John Charles McQuaid. No friends of the majority working class there so it’s no wonder the “property rights” of vultures like Twinlite and Goldman Sachs take precedence of the rights of ordinary people to have a stable and affordable home.

You said:
“The main issue I have here though is that these individuals aren’t even poor, they should really be able to find somewhere else. I honestly have no idea why the state would bail them out..”

Can you provide some evidence of these claims please? Are you aware how many of the families are in receipt of rent supplement? Do you know how many hours the parents need to work in order to scrape together the extortionate €1200 – 1400 rent monthly to further enrich Twinlite? Have you seen the state of disrepair of the houses as Twinlite refuse to provide adequate maintenance despite the crippling rack rents?
Do you know that here’s a homeless crisis raging and that 100 families most certainly will not find alternative and affordable accommodation?

Do you understand that if Fingal take ownership of the houses that rent will still be paid by the tenants or the houses will be sold to the tenants? Have you not noticed that state is in the business of bailing out the wealthy elite at the expense of the majority working class?

Boganity,

Ulster Bank have sold the Twinlite loans to the Goldman Sachs vultures and therefore no longer have any interest in those Tyrellstown houses.

Wally
None of what you want to happen will happen. The state aren’t going to do what you want. You don’t want to listen to why. You are going to live in anger over this but no skin off my nose.

Kal,

If it’s no skin of your nose the why do you spend so much time on here defending the interests of the capital owning elite?

And the battle is far from lost here. Remember that the state wanted to impose another banker tax in the form of water charges and have tried and failed spectacularly to do so in the face of a mass boycott of the working class.

The AAA will also do everything in our power to mobilize the local community in defense of those families. We call on the residents of Tyrellstown and Dublin West to show solidarity with their neighbors and stand together to prevent any future evictions to further enrich the bloated Goldman Sachs parasites.

In addition, we’ll use our elected TDs to apply massive political pressure to the establishment parties to force them into action on this matter. This has been proven to be an effective strategy in the past where our occupation of a NAMA property and a developer’s show house forced the allocation of 44 social houses in Dublin 15.

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015111800066?opendocument

Obedience and compliance is a recipe for exploitation and misery. Solidarity and protest works.

Wally
I am simply not a fan of lying and propaganda and will challenge it.
If you really think AAA are going to change anything you are going to be disappointed.
It really only effects me when I talk to the likes of you. Afterwards it doesn’t bother me but it will keep bugging you. You have much more time invested in it and a huge chip on your shoulder. The fact you think I am defending some ‘elite’ group shows you can’t even comprehend what is said. You want more rights for people unless they are part of the group ‘elite’ you decide then their rights don’t matter. A true hypocrite

Kal,

You’re correct that I do have time invested in this and it’s time well spent trying to prevent ordinary families becoming homeless to enrich Twinlite and Goldman Sachs.

But your “challenge” consisted of unsubstantiated spoofing which has now been easily exposed. Any regular readers will know that you’re a parasite like the elite you speak for.

In fairness Wally, do you really believe that NAMA can just seize property from a private company because of other debts? That 42 million you mention could well be covered by monthly payments and even if the State were to try to seize the property how long do you reckon it would take to get through the High Court in order to get a judgement to allow the government or sheriff seize the property?

Wally .. Kal likes to tell people to stop posting things he doesn’t like.. Even though there is more than him on the journal.. Seems to have a problem with people reading about hedgecraic and vulture funds.. But he forgets his not the only one that reads the journal ..
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/why-does-our-government-like-vultures-so-much-31085333.html

Littleone
No problem with people being informed. Lazy reposting opinion pieces is the problem. Again I didn’t tell you to do anything but you aren’t lying about that are you?

Lisa,

You asked “how long do you reckon it would take to get through the High Court in order to get a judgment to allow the government or sheriff seize the property?”

About an hour ,maybe two. The courts are an instrument of the state and if the state wishes a case to be heard very quickly, that’s exactly what will happen.

Judicial delays of months and years only apply to ordinary people. The elite like Denis O Brie can have the High court issue injunctions within a matter of days as we’ve seen recently. When the powerful say jump, the law asks how high.

Kal, I have exposed Wally here again and again for being stupid, brainwashed and hypocritical. He is a liar and he is a fraud, he preys on the most vulnerable, lies to them, provides them with false information and then uses their anger to try and further his campaign.

These people are the real problem for this country. Many people just haven’t realised it yet.

No problem with people being informed but then you told me I can stop posting it now.. Whatever kal. People can post , write , repost whatever they want .. It’s seems only you had the problem , no one else seems other actually like reading about hedgecraic.. Something that happened here in Ireland. Now that’s not an opinion but a fact…

Kal Ipers
3 hours ago # 78 12
Congratulations you can still cut and paste the same opinion piece. You can stop now no need to post it every time.

You can stop now…… Mmmmm

Wally
You are delusional or lying.
Patlyndo and me do not agree on most things so if he is agreeing with me on this it says a hell of a lot.
A court order wouldn’t be so fast as it would be trampling on ownership rights. A judge just won’t do it even if the state tried it which they won’t.
People don’t listen to This AAA propaganda sprouted by Wally

He can no longer tell the difference Kal – I mean this is the guy who wanted all the banks to fail back in 2008 – now think about that for a moment, where does he think all the mortgages would have went to then?

He has no comprehension of what this kind of interference can lead to – none.

Private tenants have gone through this situation for years – but because it didn’t involve Goldman Sachs (and it barely involves them now), they bang their drum because of the publicity – they couldn’t care less about those on the housing lists – this proves it.

They now want to introduce middle class welfare – that’s what this is.

Kal,

Patsy is a woman. A grandmother in fact if her previous claims are true. I don’t blame you for the mistake though as her brand of aggressive and deluded myopia is typically a male trait.

Patsy argues to make the homeless lists longer as she pats herself on the back for delivering blankets and soup to other homeless people. She thrives on the misery of others while pontificating from a position of privilege.

A lot like this lad in fact:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9oiO6RVKrU

Patsy,

Our TD’s and councilors are dealing with individuals and families made homeless on a daily basis and are constantly battling to find them suitable accommodation through the councils etc. In addition, we’ve used use our elected TDs to apply political pressure on the establishment to force them into action on this matter. For example, Ruth Coppinger and our councillors spent several nights occupying a partially constructed NAMA property and a developer’s show house along with a number of local homeless families who were stuck in hotel rooms with their children for many months and even years.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/homeless-people-anti-austerity-alliance-occupy-dublin-estate-1.2360272

This resulted in Fingal CoCo purchasing 44 houses in Dublin 15 soon after which saw many of those families housed.

“Patsy is a woman. A grandmother in fact if her previous claims are true. I don’t blame you for the mistake though as her brand of aggressive and deluded myopia is typically a male trait.”

I don’t claim anything – I am what I say I am – what I am not is a liar and a fraud and what I don’t do is use those less fortunate to further an agenda.

You mistake repeatedly challenging your lies as “aggression” – your mob could tell a tale or two about aggression.

“Our TD’s and councilors are dealing with individuals and families made homeless on a daily basis and are constantly battling to find them suitable accommodation through the councils etc. In addition, we’ve used use our elected TDs to apply political pressure on the establishment to force them into action on this matter.”

I am sure they are – when you promise “free stuff” you’ll always find yourself in demand, they better hope and pray that you lot never get near government – you would destroy the country in 6 months.

You carry on belittling, insulting and disrespect those who volunteer their time, while clapping people on the back for doing the job they’re paid 90k plus expenses to do – go you.

“For example, Ruth Coppinger and our councillors spent several nights occupying a partially constructed NAMA property and a developer’s show house along with a number of local homeless families who were stuck in hotel rooms with their children for many months and even years.”

Wow, what a great person – And yet you belittle, insult and disrespect those who volunteer their time and do this without seeking any publicity.

You keep up the good work Wally – the opposition don’t have to do anything at about your little party – it’s you Ruth that are the best advertisement for what not to vote for.

I;ve seen her in interviews, coming out with the most stupid comments – they just look at here and know there’s no point trying to engage with her – she’s no reason, no logic – exactly how you are trained Wally – copy and paste…………………….

Have a little lie down Patsy. Your impotent bile is getting the better of you again.

Your stock response when you’re confronted Wally, I don’t need to lie down, and you should check out your own impotent bile that you spout here daily – as long as you’re here to spout your shi* – I’ll be here to challenge you and pull you up on your blatant lies.

You are a liar and you are a fraud and you use the most vulnerable in society to further your agenda.

You and your mob want to keep people in their place and you will never be happy that working class people like myself see you for what you are – a poison on this country.

Wally
I don’t agree with Pat on housing and gender does really matter in this discussion. To claim she wants to increase the homelessness is at best disingenuous but closer to an outright lie in reality.
These are private tenants and they are talking about using a social housing fund to provide for them. They wouldn’t be homeless or even on the social housing register.
You have a political agenda and support of an organisation. You should really stop hiding behind a user name and come out as a party representative. At that point you can then have all your comments political,legal and personal question in the correct public forum.
Given how you debate and talk to people here they will drop you in a heart beat.

Thank you Kal.

The notion that anyone would want to see the housing list getting longer is not only disingenuous, it’s just insane.

“You should really stop hiding behind a user name and come out as a party representative. ”

Now I don’t know whether or not this is true, but Wally was asked what he did for a living and he claimed he was an economist with IBEC.

Now if that is what he says he is – fine.I will say nothing.

He asked me a few days ago what I did to help the homeless – I told him that I was involved in some groups who provide practical and emergency assistance when needed – you saw how he treated that information:

“She pats herself on the back for delivering blankets and soup to other homeless people. She thrives on the misery of others while pontificating from a position of privilege.”

The inference is that I come on here boasting and giving myself credit, when the truth is he asked me, I answered and he didn’t like the answer, so he now attempts to use it against me, claiming that I take some perverse enjoyment from the people I try to help.

He just cannot accept that a working class person would not support the AAA.

He just cannot accept that because I have an opposing view to his, that I too contribute to the same people that he claims to represent – my contribution is nothing of course in comparison to his and the AAA’s.

As I said, he is FF/FG’s best weapon against the AAA.

@wally Mooney. You should be ashamed of yourself blatantly twisting Patlyndo’s selfless deed in helping others into a personal slight is, in one word, despicable. When you have to make disparaging personal remarks about those who challenge your view, you sir, have lost the argument.

“Now I don’t know whether or not this is true, but Wally was asked what he did for a living and he claimed he was an economist with IBEC”
I hope he was trying to be funny but he is such a liar who knows? He is an extreme socialist judging by his Facebook.

Thank you molly.

I think I would prefer that we buy the houses to let people remain in their own home. I wouldn’t want families facing homelessness over a point of principle.

Lisa, those houses are not theirs, they are tenants, not council tenants or social housing, just regular tenants. People who rent have to move all the time, and most don’t barricade themselves in. As a renter I have moved each time. I never expected the government to intervene. Why is this different?

Spot on John B – I’ve had to do the same, doesn’t make me happy – but that’s the contract you sign on a year to year basis.

These houses are being bought as social houses.

Are the people in them entitled to social housing?

Are they going to jump the queue on the housing list, when others on the list should be housed before them?

How long will the people ahead of them on the housing list be have to wait to be housed because the council has spent all their money on a PR exceed use?

Danny
Asked the same question and people didn’t like it. Apparently people don’t care how social housing funds are spent

Nobody cares about those on the list, they don’t really care about those living in hotels, sure it’s terrible, and people think that it shouldn’t happen – but it’s a political football now, the left are trying to further their agenda, the sham of a government are trying to “buy” support – some people don’t see it though.

I read the comments below after I posted.

Why has no one questioned this?

The AAA/PBP/SF Cllrs pushing this are basically telling the families on the waiting list “We don’t care about you, we will get as much publicity out of this as we can…”

You’re not allowed to question it Danny – you’re defending the vulture funds if you dare – they don’t do questions, much like they don’t do reality.

I think there maybe a group of campaigners for the residents around.

@Danny, you have it in a nutshell there about the AAA/PBP/SF, they are pure publicity wh*res who don’t give a rat’s about those who genuinely need a home and who have been on the waiting list for many, many years. I really don’t understand the kerfuffle, these privately renting tenants can afford rents in excess of €1000+ per month, a family in need could in no way afford that level of rent. They are not being evicted, the fact is their leases are not being renewed, we’ve all had to move away from our desired locations as we couldn’t afford them and we commuted. Way too much self entitlement about these days.

Is this what you are calling propaganda…
HedgeCraic was a gathering of about a hundred very rich people – representatives of hedge funds. They met at the Shelbourne Hotel and at the Ritz-Carlton for four days in September 2013.
They enjoyed what the event organiser termed “the craic” while discussing how to make money out of the distressed Irish economy. When they had a similar business/pleasure trip to Scotland they termed their booze-up ‘BraveHedge’. Wacky guys, eh?
In an economic crisis, a lot of rich people circle distressed companies and economies like vultures. Such low-life types salivate at the thought of dancing on the grave of a company or an entire national economy.
Forgive my bitter left-wing rhetoric. Let me, instead, quote one of those gentlemen – Christopher Flowers, head of JC Flowers, one of the most successful vulture funds in the business. Addressing a meeting in New York in February 2009, Chris predicted that “low-life grave dancers like me” would make “a tremendous fortune” from the crisis.
Banks and property portfolios were collapsing under the weight of the greed of bankers and bondholders. Governments, Chris said, would buy up such assets.
And that is what politicians – taking advice from bankers – did.
Governments around the world, Chris predicted, “are going to own a lot of stuff, and they are going to be not very adroit, not very commercial. There’s going to be a lot of money to be made around the edges of this thing.”
This isn’t an investor backing a business, creating jobs. This is smash and grab.
Another vulture, Steve Schwarzman, CEO of the Blackstone Group, advises vultures to “wait until there’s really blood in the streets”. You can “double your money within a few months”.
It helps to get up close and personal with state officials and politicians, to judge their calibre.
Michael Noonan, Minister for Finance, attended the third day of the HedgeCraic conference, at the Ritz-Carlton.
HedgeCraic was just one of many such events held in Ireland over the past few years – without fanfare.
Governments have had to respond, both globally and nationally, to the problems caused by vulture funds. Let’s look at how our Government responded, and see what that might tell us.
Vulture funds buy up debt cheaply, for cents on the dollar. Later, a government will be negotiating over debts that are simply unpayable. Creditors will accept a write-down – something is better than nothing.
At that stage, the vulture funds demand full payment – not what they paid for the debt, but the whole amount. They threaten to tie things up in litigation for years, as the economy spirals down the plughole. More often than not they get paid off.
Last September, at the General Assembly of the United Nations, Bolivia proposed Draft Resolution A/68/L.57/Rev.1. The idea is to create “a multilateral legal framework for sovereign debt restructuring processes.”
In short – instead of governments being played off against one another, they will employ a collective legal strategy to fight the vulture funds.
Bolivia’s resolution is a responsible move to protect sovereign governments from the predatory attention of low-life grave dancers. The resolution passed by 124 votes to 11.
Ireland voted against.
Why are we taking the side of vulture funds, against sovereign governments? Does our Government hold vultures in high esteem? Well, you might think that, but I couldn’t possibly comment.
That’s our government responding on the global level. How are they doing on a national level?
Information given in the Dail revealed that in 2013 and 2014 finance officials attended meetings with representatives of hedge funds no fewer than 65 times.
On eight occasions – including HedgeCraic – Mr Noonan himself attended.
Of course, from Mr Noonan’s point of view, he and his people are merely fulfilling their duty to encourage investment in Ireland. And no doubt the vultures are meeting our government officials purely to seek advice that will ensure that they do nothing that will infringe on the welfare of the citizens.
Some people with mortgages are worried that their debts have been bought up by vultures. Here’s Charlie Weston in the Irish Independent, last July: “Thousands of homeowners have had their mortgages sold on to unregulated funds, meaning they lose valuable consumer protections policed by the Central Bank.
“More than 10,000 mortgages have already been sold on to funds that do not have to observe consumer codes and protections.”
Not to worry, Mr Noonan told the Dail last April. The purchasers are committed to “the terms of the Central Bank’s code of conduct on mortgage arrears”.
Eamon O Cuiv asked: “Am I right in thinking that the legal position is that the arrangements the Minister has made have no legal status and are totally unenforceable and that this is a case of what might be called light-touch regulation?”
Noonan: “Even if they only shake hands on it, there is a contract…” these funds, he said, are “reputable organisations and I do not think they would welsh on their commitments”.
Eh, why, then, do states and businesses bother with any legally enforceable contracts? It’s now official – no need to hire all those expensive lawyers – Mick Noonan says, just shake hands.
Pearse Doherty asked about the legal standing of the vultures’ commitments. “Was it a spit in the hand and a firm handshake?”
And, it seems it was.
Since 2008, there’s been a struggle between various forces, to see who will pay for the crisis and who will benefit. What does the relationship between this state and the vultures tell us about that struggle?
Some ask if the incoming law is good enough to protect mortgage holders from vultures? What’s far more worrying is the tone of what has been happening.

Congratulations you can still cut and paste the same opinion piece. You can stop now no need to post it every time.

Great comeback Kal, deal with the issue. Something tells me you’re biased here and have a vested interest somehow.

I can stop now?..really.. Why?… People can post what they want for others to read even if you don’t like it. I am sure others do…

Really kal. Telling others what they can post .. Says it all …

@beal
The feeling I have a vested interest does have a name ‘paranoid delusions’
Not having socialist ideals with the belief in conspiracies means I am not going to agree. I am not making ridiculous claims about what could be done or denying there was a property crash

Kal. Why did you tell me to stop posting up about hedgecraic .. That’s no conspiracy . it’s an actual event that took place.. As is everything else posted..

Because all you did was cut and paste an article which you posted more than once on another article. It is just lazy and repetitive that is why I said there is no need.

I also didn’t ‘tell’ you to stop I said you ‘can’

Sure… I Like making sure that people who weren’t on the other articles get to read it.. Nothing wrong with that. Is there?…. Funny how its only about hedgecraic you have a problem being posted up. I see from you and other people making comments the same general stuff being posted also.. But you don’t tell others to stop posting things up… Sorry if you find it repetitive to read about vulture funds and hedgecraic but there is more than you that read the journal..

How old are you? 5 or 6? You missed the property crash before you were born

What are you talking about, sure Nama was set up with the express intention of keeping property prices artificially inflated. I’ll never forget watching Brian Lenihan on prime time around the time of the bank guarantee in 2008 saying oh none of us want to see any decrease in property values, this was at a time when house prices were over 4 times the average industrial wage over a lifetime, I remember shaking my head going I just don’t have a hope of ever affording to buy a house even in a bloody recession

I bought a small semi-D in cork for just short of quarter of mill in 2013, you tell me when it was cheaper in the past to buy this house

Sorry more expensive in the past

If it existed in 2006 it would have been more expensive. House prices still haven’t matched the peak of the 00s are you seriously unaware of this?

My house was last purchased in the year 2000 for 87,000 punts, are you saying that property hasn’t increased since then, there is no risk in property in this country, simple as, it just favours those with plenty of capital and those that hoard property over time

You are claiming house prices didn’t drop in 2007? Ignoring the years where prices went down is just hiding the reality where people are in negative equity.
I could have sold my house for 600k as one sold for that on my road. Those people are in negative equity of 100k.
It is a complete falsehood to say property investment is always going up.
Explain the buy to lets that are in arrears and in negative equity.

I saw a three bedroom apartment in the Sunday Times supplement for sale in the Grand Canal for €845,000 at the weekend. Who is in negative equity exactly? If you can find me one single property that’s cheaper now than in 2006 then fair enough. All of these prices were beyond inflated in 2006 and incredibly they’re even more inflated now.

I’ll keep it simple as you can’t seem to admit what everybody knows. Did house prices drop for a number of years in Ireland ? It is yes or no.
The majority of houses are still below peak prices. Go find any article to say it is different. And I will be amazed.

Have you tried buying a property in the last couple of years? The proof is in the eating. Tell me exactly where actual house prices dropped not asking prices? I can avouch for this first hand as someone who has actively looked for a house to buy and live in over the last 5 years. I admit around 2008/09 there was an almost complete halt on house sales. Banks weren’t lending anymore and nobody budged. My point is that the ultimate winner is the property owner. He can sit out such a period safe full in the knowledge that his asset will increase regardless and even profit from it by renting it out. The cards are well and truly stacked in the favour of the property owner and to say otherwise means you have never rented over a period of time.

@beal
Just couldn’t answer a simple yes or no. Just waffle after that.
House prices still haven’t matched the peak and your claims of prices continually going up is an obvious falsehood.

“”If you can find me one single property that’s cheaper now than in 2006 then fair enough.” ”

I bought in Lucan, Co. Dublin in 2006. My house is now worth 100k less than I paid for it. Every single house that I looked at during my search at that time is now cheaper to buy.

100k homes in Ireland are still in negative equity – http://www.thejournal.ie/esri-negative-equity-2662128-Mar2016/

Again that’s asking prices Karen, put your house on the market and you’ll see what it’ll actually make

@An_Beal
I’m going by the property price register not Daft. Houses in my area of Dublin are not making anyway near what they were selling for in 2006. Grand Canal Docks might be but they are an anomaly due to the many multinationals set up in the vicinity.

I’m sorry Kal but you clearly don’t know how AFFORDABLE housing works, I do as I’ve worked in a local authority

I know what affordable housing schemes are but they are calling it social housing. They have to be very careful which fund they use and get approval for.
You are the one who doesn’t understand what is going on here and the ramifications.

Ya I’m sure you’re really worried about which fund they use! Are you on a social housing list? Somehow I doubt it

@bell
We know you aren’t either. I do have friends and family on it for years. Can I not care when they are passed over?

Go talk to a Local Authority housing officer, they will tell you that they struggle to get some tenants to pay even the most minuscule rents in some social housing, but you want to evict people who are willing to pay 1,200 a month!!

That’s the real issue Kal, these tenants are paying 1,200 plus per month and therefore would not qualify for Social Housing, yet here we are again, the looney left banging their drum, a weak non government desperate to hang on to power oiling the squeaky wheel while driving right over the very people that they claim to represent.

Last week it was the Luas drivers – when that contract comes up for renewal in 2019, you can bet that it will cost the taxpayer more because they’ll factor in the increases.

But they’re private tenants, not council tenants. They were paying a rent that they agreed on when they signed the contract.

You are advocating that the state intervene and house people who are not homeless and not on the housing list.

The state intervenes all the time, it intervened all the way back in 1903 and 1909 with some of the most progressive social housing legislation in Europe at the time, specifically the Land Acts as enacted by Irish MP’s, where people who weren’t homeless but were given a chance to retain the roof over the heads at an affordable and sustainable rate and buy an equity share in their property. The issue then was market failure i.e. large landed estates with largely absentee landlords and again now the issue is market failure. I don’t blame the vulture funds, they’re doing what they’re supposed to – i.e. make a profit. But our government have facilitated it in such a way that it is to the detriment of the people they’re supposed to protect – it’s citizens.

Exactly ABB – the state intervene and what happens? They make a balls of it and yet you and others want them to take more responsibility?

Look at the PS.

Look at the Health Service.

Look at the housing lists?

And you want them more involved?

According the Karl Deetor, DCC evicted more people then the banks in 2011, 2012 and 2013:

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/03/22/i-have-to-return-some-videotapes/
“The actual eviction figures for Dublin City Council, ok, show that within Dublin City, the city council evict more people in the banks or building societies in 2011, in 2012, in 2013 and I’m talking two or three times more. Other than 2015, it was the first time the banks evicted more people than Dublin City Council so there’s a lot of things in it that we never discuss. I’m saying we need to have this conversation.”

Sure, let’s just foam at the mouth when we hear Goldman Sachs – let’s ignore the deep rooted problems in the councils and how they manage the property they have, the massive arrears from those who refuse to pay, the anti -social behaviour – yes, it’s always someone else’s fault.

No they certainly didn’t make a balls of it back in 1903 and 1909, and again the cottage and acre schemes of the 20′s and 60′s were excellent interventions at a time when we had feck all money. The Health Services for example is riddled with inefficient sub-contracts to private companies including many “not-for-profit” charities. So both the private and public sector are involved in all areas but don’t let that affect that chip on your shoulder.

Whatever, if you want to go back to 1903 work away – but sure let’s ignore the government interference that got us here – grand so.

Chip on my shoulder – nah, not really – just not brainwashed.

By the way, there’ll be a sharp dose of reality coming to a town near you in the not so distance future.

We’re setting ourselves up for a fall. It won’t be long now.

Interesting that the interventions that happen all the time mentioned are over 100 years ago. The Irish state didn’t even exist then.

It’s also interesting that Twinlite aren’t the big bad wolves that they’re being made out to be:

“However, it has emerged that Twinlite approached Tuath earlier this year with a view to the voluntary agency buying up to 40 of the 103 houses due to be sold, despite what a Twinlite spokesperson described as “apprehensions” about selling a large number of the units for social housing.”

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/twinlite-offered-tyrrelstown-homes-to-social-housing-agency-34554942.html

“Tuath, which says that it was not its intention to displace any residents from their homes, has not yet made a bid for the properties, but said that a due-diligence process had commenced.
“As part of normal due diligence, the association was in the process of undertaking a scheme appraisal, including an assessment of whether it was feasible to acquire the properties with tenants in situ,” said a Tuath spokesperson. Tuath recently acquired 32 apartments in Co Wicklow for €7.2m, using State funding.”

Tough or morally dubious ? Would you personally evict a paying tenant if you knew you were making them homeless? Because.no doubt about it, some of the tyrrelstown families will inevitably end up homeless.

When it comes to the housing crisis which we so clearly face then instead of NAMA selling a jobs lot of private housing to vulture funds, they should be selling these houses to young families trying to secure a roof over their heads without the worry of being turfed out. There is should be a mandate made by our Government to allow this. You cannot turf a family out of a home they lived in for 10yrs knowing well that it is next to impossible to rent elsewhere. And by god are we in a major crisis.

These houses were always going to be sold off at some stage, the developer is trying to pay back loans and the houses will go on the market so people can buy them, going by the interviews yesterday of residents on the radio they had a good deal on the rent as they all said they were looking around the area to rent over the past year or 2 and they rents are €200+ compared to what there paying now, if they were looking around they knew that these houses were going to be sold off as the market is improving in Dublin and of course the developer was going to sell the estate once the market improved what else did they think he would do

Michael last week on Daft there was one property to let in Tyrrelstown. One! There’s not many in the wider Dublin 15 area either. There’s no place for these people to go. That’s the problem here and that’s why they shouldn’t be evicted. Some of them will end up homeless, no doubt about it.

Why would someone who can pay over 1,200 euro be on the streets? Might they have to move – sure, is it nice, no it’s not.

But private tenants have been doing this for years, the AAA did nothing because it wasn’t newsworthy.

Why would people who can pay 1,200 plus rent be homeless? Are you telling me that if you could afford to pay that rent that you would sleep on the street instead of moving further out for example?

Homeless doesnt necessarily mean sleeping on the streets. It could mean hotel accommodation etc paid by the state

Dermot, why would they have hotel accommodation paid by the state? They are private tenants., they are not leaving their property because they cannot afford the rent (1,200 plus), the LL is selling, just like it happens every day of the week – unfortunately.

Why would they be homeless when they can afford 1,200 plus a month rent?

Because of the severe shortage of available,affordable properties

Dermot, the state don’t pay for hotel accommodation for people who can afford to pay over 1,200 euro rent.

I am really not sure that you understand the difference between people who can afford their rent and people who cannot.

Just to elaborate on some of what is said in that Podcast.
People get social housing for life. A guy might start off working as a shelf stacker in a supermarket, get a social-funded home, and work his/her way up to area-manager – they’re not kicked out of said home. They’re rent will rise alright, but not to market levels. A 4-5 bed home on the social is around 800 per month AFAIK.
IMO, social welfare funded homes should be for set time periods circa 20 – 30 years – then it should be mandatory downsizing.
If people in social housing cannot afford market rents – how come so many here and in the UK can/could afford to buy said homes from the council? Makes you think.

He made some very valid points.

You can literally progress to an extraordinarily super paying job (Like a TD for example) and still not reach the cap.

There’s also another aspect of this – if you had a couple of kids, then when they grow up and get a job, then their max contribution is 19 euro per week.

You could have 4 adults, all working, living in a council property and bringing in a very good income , which really allows the adult children to do what very few can do now, save for a deposit.

It’s middle class welfare – Social style.