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Updated at 9.45pm
TALKS ON THE formation of a new government have ended for the evening – but a number of fundamental issues still remain to be resolved.
Fianna Fáil’s Deputy Jim O’Callaghan told the media that issues include housing, children and water, RTÉ reports.
Taoiseach Enda Kenny and Fianna Fáil leader Micheál Martin talked over the phone tonight, and have agreed that they will talk again tomorrow, a Fine Gael spokesperson confirmed.
However, the party is not commenting on the talks.
Earlier today Minister Leo Varadkar said that progress had been made in the talks.
Irish Water
At talks yesterday, the issue of Irish Water was not discussed. This is despite it being the major sticking point for the two parties, with both refusing to budge on their policies.
Fianna Fáil wants Irish Water abolished and water charges suspended, meanwhile Fine Gael wants the utility to remain in place.
A deal is on the table that would see Irish Water move from a commercial entity to a state agency, with generous allowances to be introduced.
However, both sides are unhappy with the compromise to their policies.
Meath Fianna Fáil TD Thomas Byrne told RTÉ’s Today with Sean O’Rourke show earlier today that no deal had been reached on Irish Water.
He said said it’s doubtful that an agreement will be reached if they don’t suspend water charges for five years – as per their general election policy.
He denied there was any split in the party between senior and junior ministers on the issue.
Byrne said he believed there are a lot more important issues on the agenda – such as homelessness. He criticised Fine Gael for spin, stating that it is not helpful.
The independents
Independent TD John Halligan said the independents are effectively operating in a void – having been left out of the Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael talks.
He told RTÉ’s News at One that he would have liked an update on the talks, as even if a deal is reached between the pair, they will have to come back to the independents for support.
The independents have a list of items they want in exchange for support.
Halligan said it came down to securing a 24-hour cardiac care unit to be restored at Waterford General Hospital, which serves 500,000 in the south east.
He said he is meeting Health Minister Leo Varadkar on Monday. “If they don’t change their mind – I’m out,” he said.
Even if an agreement on the six or seven issues standing between Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil are agreed upon this weekend, the Independent Alliance said they still reserve the right to make amendments to the agreement, if some of their key issues are omitted from the plan.
Referendum
One independent TD said that “there needs to be a referendum on the ownership of Irish Water.”
Speaking to TheJournal.ie, independent TD Michael Collins said the only way to sort out the issue of Irish Water is to hold a referendum on its ownership.
Collins said the only way for a deal to be struck is for both parties to agree that once a minority-government is formed, a referendum be held immediately.
The situation at the moment is the two main political parties do not want to budge on the issue.
Collins said it was the only way to restore any sort of public confidence in the utility.
I think that will be the only long term solution here. It is sad that is has to come to this.
He said while campaigning on the doorsteps he found Irish Water was one of the main issues.
A tax too far
“People don’t mind paying their way and paying their bills… but it was one tax too far for the people.” Collins said he agreed with the proposal that families be given a generous allowance of water usage, and once that is breached, charges could kick in.
We need to give the people their say However, I am pretty sure I know what they will say in relation to Irish Water.The mess is there, and now it’s been left in the politician’s lap to sort out.
One FG source said a referendum on Irish Water would be “very acceptable”.
Fine Gael TD Alan Farrell said he is on the record as stating that he would not be opposed to a referendum on the ownership – but said he did not think it was relevant or central to the debate that was ongoing at the moment.
He said he had reservations about the utility being made a state agency as it would mean that it would only be answerable to the Department of the Environment and not to the Dáil directly.
“I don’t want the department running it,” he said. Farrell said one needs only to look at the past at how the department oversaw local authorities and water services to see why.
Farrell said it was now “time to move from the impasse”.
The question
The idea of holding a referendum on Irish Water is not a new one – it was first proposed by the Green Party at the height of the public backlash against water charges, in October of 2014.
“The only way to ensure that Irish Water isn’t privatised in the future is to enshrine the public ownership of public water resources in the constitution,” Greens leader Eamon Ryan wrote in an article for this website last year.
A referendum on public ownership of the utility would provide absolute, 100% certainty for the future.
Ryan originally signed-off on the introduction of water charges as part of bailout negotiations during the FF-Greens government. However, during his candidacy for the European Parliament, the former minister said he only signed up because he thought Labour would veto them once in power.
Speaking to Newstalk yesterday, Labour’s Willie Penrose said he thought there should be referendum on water to ensure Irish Water is “never privatised”.
With reporting by Daragh Brophy and Aoife Barry
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Enough, FFS!! Enough is enough.
No self respecting human can say this act of pure savagery was done on their behalf.
May the innocent victims of these animals rest in peace.
Tragic event and an awful way to die.
..Glen you don’t perhaps work for a living do you? Your here more than me!
Early retirement Royston
Rocket Science must take a lot out of ya! ;-)
These ‘soldiers’ are brave enough to take up arms and fight for their cause, but too cowardly to come forward and admit responsibility for their actions.
What ” soldiers” are you talking about ?
I’m assuming that those responsible label themselves as ‘soldiers’. I could be wrong, maybe they call themselves something else.
Soldiers don’t do that
Terrorists do !
See my previous comment.
Surely there should be a warning on the third picture down that there are clearly visible human remains!!! These poor people and their families deserve some respect and this picture should be taken down!
Sorry about that, Fiona. That picture wasn’t meant to be there at all.
I’d say its pretty hard to publish a picture by mistake.
..yeah after the Lady spotted it! Bad form guys..
The news has been showing pictures of body’s since yesterday.
Please remove it then.
Hi guys,
The picture was in there by mistake and was removed within minutes.
It was a genuine error on my part and in no way was meant to be exploitative. Had I meant that, I could have used it as the main picture.
Paul
Why would you put a picture of bodies as the main picture?
You visited an article with a subject indicating that it was going to show pictures of a plane crash site where almost 300 people have died and now you are complaining because the pictures show the horrific scene in full?
Wow. Just wow. What did you expect to see when you visited this article?
Have to agree Cupán Tae – the subject matter is grim and while it’s unsettling and harrowing to view such footage, from a journalistic point of view I don’t criticise organisations/media that publish such pictures. It brings home the awful reality of what happened.
@ Cupán Tae
Some people aren’t happy unless they are offended at least once a day.
Why would a family member scroll down through an article that’s headed “In pictures: The MH17 crash site”?
Because the journalism saying is, if it bleeds it leads.” To get more hits on the article or the site, he could have used that photo as the main article image. Obviously he didn’t because it wasn’t intended that way. But some news outlets will do that as the intended purpose.
Do you remember crash plane in Russia, 4 years ago with Polish president Lech Kaczynski and many Polish politicians? It was an accident-they said. Yes, probably it was. But until today Russian government (or president of Russia?) doesn’t want to give back this plane, recorded tape and they don’t want to investigate what really happen there. Please, don’t do the same mistake again-these top Russian politicians understand only the language of straight and power. If all nations cannot speak on the same way-it may happen again. They don’t care about passengers or their families. It would be sad if this tragedy won’t be a good lesson how to speak with Putin. I hope you have no any doubts he supported terrorists on Ukraine land?
Under international laws, nether the Rebels have any right to take the FDRs since they are not a recognised country and since the aircraft was in Ukrainian airspace the Russians have no right to have it.
International law didn’t stop Russia from taking Crimea.
Will this be another Lusitania or pearl harbour ?? If this was indeed Russia , it would have to be proven , they can’t get away with it , then again media convinced us all there was weapons of mass destruction in Iraq !!!
They have been steeping up security recently at airports emphasising to charge up your smart devices before flying etc.
Just how exactly do they plan on preventing another one of these? It’s a new level and it’s scary.
It’s not new John, this had happened before & in the Ukraine..
Point taken Royston but it’s still going to cost the passenger as now airlines will have to consider every route near a war zone and use an alternate. What is new to me is that someone can take down a plane from the surface at 33,000 feet. Normally they try and get them coming in to land etc. That’s what I meant.
Also happened in Iraq several years ago, just goes to show no matter how many hoops they make you jump through at security and how many bottles of water they take off you, if someone wants to do something badly enough they’ll always find a way.
John point taken but your assuming it was a deliberate attack?
The airline was allegedly shot down by a very sophisticated missile system designed primarily to take down large NATO bombers during the Cold War..
Perhaps it would be wise for airlines to avoid areas of conflict where these systems are active..
Personally I think this could have been avoided, there was a lot of Anti Aircraft defence systems active in this region over the past few days. Why this was not taken onboard by the relevant air authorities is something we will have to learn over the coming days..
John – “airlines will have to consider every route near a war zone”. I agree. If implemented the vast majority of the Middle East and a large country in Eastern Europe will be no go areas for commercial airlines.
Barry the Iraq event was a smaller shoulder launched missile intent on targeting a western military or commercial aircraft.. To joe public it seems the same but it’s not. The Malaysian Airways aircraft was transitioning the airspace above Ukraine & flying at 10k above ground, well past the capabilities of the best shoulder fired rocket..
Well aware of the facts of that incident thanks, the plane was still shot down by an a$$hole wasn’t it? My point was in reply to John’s original comment on threat levels and preventing things like this i.e. you can’t.
“What is new to me is that someone can take down a plane from the surface at 33,000 feet.”
The Soviet-designed Buk missile system can be used to engage targets at an altitude of up to 85,000 feet depending on the version. Missiles capable of engaging targets at extremely high altitude have existed for over 50 years.
Please remove the picture of the dead bodies. Most news sites have chosen not to show them, I didn’t expect to see it here.
You should see the news sheets
So you went into an article titled MH17 crash site, and complain when it shows the crash site? What did you expect?
Third photo down shows dead bodies, out of respect it should be removed,
They should be given 24 hours to hand over Igor Strelkov or else the world should take over the territory that he is controlling like he was boosting about taking another bird out of the sky just 20 min after the flight crashed
Putin the s***bag had to have armed them so now it is time the world turned it back on russia
We need world leader that are not going to shy away from holding the s***bags that did this to account
Is it normal for an airliner to fly over a war zone?
Apparently is was flying 1000ft above the warzone area. Could only think they did that to save money instead of using fuel to go around it.
Mark, yes on a particularly busy and active flight path linking two continents
Yep! I flew over Iraq (bagdad to be precise, twice between 06 & 09), although the airline removed the names of the city from the onscreen map you could still make out the Euphrates down in the city.. I guess they just didn’t deem the height we were at as a threat..
@ Jason
Think it was 33k feet?
I read it and also heard it on news talk. That’s all.
I mean 1000ft above the air/sky area that is deemed a no flyzone. Not as in flying 1000ft above the ground.
More than that even from the information I saw. No-fly zone extended up to 4,000m while MH17 was at an altitude of 10,000m.
I see. Thank you gentlemen.
Why did Ukraine traffic control tell the Airline to drop its altitude.
This horrific event also raises a question regarding civil aviation routing – why in Gods name are passenger aircraft flying over a war zone in the first place? A major rethink required to protect passenger welfare.
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