Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
The Daily PollGARDAÍ ARE QUESTIONING whether having an unarmed force is realistic with violent crime on the increase.
The annual conference of the Garda Representative Association (GRA) is holding its annual conference in Kerry this week.
Pay is expected to dominate the conference, but there’s also a call to debate whether the force should remain unarmed.
So today we’re asking, do you think gardaí should be armed?
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
Yes but not rank and file just in special response units.
Giving sub machine guns to those involved in community policing is an unmitigated disaster for the country.
The Emergency Response Unit already carry guns.
Rank and file Gardai should definitely not.
Sub machine guns as standard issue for community gardai?thats a bit of a leap dont you think?
Cops in every European country except for Ireland and Britain carry guns. Why would it be so disastrous here?
If we saw a normal cop carrying a gun would we go bizerk giving the cop a reason to shoot us??!!
The only difference it would make is that criminals might think twice before taking on the law!
The big concern here is escalation of force, if the Gardai routinely carry guns then the average criminal that probably used to carry a knife now needs a gun and the bigger criminals that used to have a handgun now need automatic weapons. I would like to see Gardai armed with something like a tazer that will allow them to deal with their close encounters with a much lower risk of them suffering personal injuries and maybe we need to increase the amount of Gardai which are in specialist roles which carry weapons but I’m not sure I’d like to see the rank and file carrying guns.
We know from the experience in America and other countries that having armed police certainly does not mean that police officers do not end up getting shot. There’s a general recognition that if the police are walking around with guns it changes thing.
Arming the force would undermine the principle of policing by consent – the notion that the police owes its primary duty to the public, instead of to the State, as in other countries.
Specialist forces like emergency response unit, drug force, special detectives carry guns. If they draw their gun it means they’re shooting to kill, not to threaten or to injure. It’s an absolute last resort. They’re armed because the criminals that they deal with are usually armed.
If regular unit gardaí were armed then every petty criminal would want a gun too.
Disaster.
An Garda Síochana… Gaurdians of the Peace. Thats why they’re unarmed.
Are ye mad, they are bad enough with their battens and spray .. If the Garda are going to bear arms then we should be aloud bear arms, they will kill us with a warning shot…
@Shane Carroll, do the criminals think twice before breaking the law in countries with armed police? I’m not aware that our crime rate is significantly higher than those countries.
Little Ireland.. immune to the real world threatening every western country, that’s not the case. It won’t be too long until an isis or terrorist attack butchers hundreds and the first responders will be our unarmed gardai that could avert the tragedy but they are unarmed. Specialist armed units are not quick at responding and do not routinely patrol the same as our uniformed gardai. In England, detectives aren’t armed, they investigate, just like out detectives, they go after the incident and investigate so, why do we have detectives in Ireland sitting at desks with a side arm taking statements. I think detectives should be armed btw but the responsible way forward is to also put gun safes in each marked patrol car so our uniformed gardai can have access in the event. Prepare for the worst case scenario. Not just hope it doesnt happen and put our head in the Sands. This is how the Norwegian police deal with having an unarmed armed police force. It’s sensible and as always years ahead of Ireland. It’s niave to want an unarmed police force in the country
They should carry swords. I may have been watching too much Game of Thrones…
@Shane, no it wouldn’t encourage criminals to think twice, it would encourage them to arm themselves!
more guns means more death’s by guns regardless who has them
By that logic you are saying that criminals pick their weapons to counter what the law has? i thought a criminal would be more concerned about not getting caught to confront the law!
In other countries if a weapon is fired a lot of paperwork is required to justify your actions so that keeps cops from using the trigger lightly.
Interesting debate anyway but nothing will be done on this without a government…..
I’m not saying every criminal would pick up weapon just because the Guards were armed but yes you would probably get an escalation in criminals countering this… I dont think its just a case that criminals are largely just concerned with not getting caught. Im pretty sure self preservation is a big aspect of this….
All police here in Portugal are armed with Glocks. No big deal. Does not stop you from reacting with them. A gun is just another tool nothing magical about it!
Rosie Murry, every petty criminal would not want a gun especially if they got 5 years for possession.
Its one thing to take on a copper who is armed with a pistol…its quite another thing to take on the same copper knowing his comrades are not far away and they have assault rifles.
Arm them and let them use them.
Guardians of the Pipes you mean…
I think all Gardai should have two arms each. It’s a lot easier to catch bad guys and drive etc when you have arms.
So not be on the phone while tippin along?
Yes and also it’s a very bad idea to give a gun to an already unarmed Garda. Sure how would he hold it?
The issue is more complicated than a simple Yes or No.
Some Gardai should be armed at all times and all Gardai should be trained and then have access to weapons if the situation demands an armed response.
In countries where the state police are fully armed at all times there is a distinct line of demarcation between the civilian population and police with the result that relations between local communities and police quickly become damaged beyond repair.
Would hate to see that disappear here in Ireland where the large majority of law abiding citizens have great respect for the Gardai.
@Cal, Thats a fairly balanced view but not sure I agree that all Gardai should have access to weapons if necessary. That would seem to defeat the purpose of the Emergency Response Unit. It may be a case that the ERU needs further resourcing but on the whole the Gardai should not be routinely armed. The ERU backed up by yhe Army Ranger Wing (if necessary ) ‘should’ be a suffcient in terms of armed support to the Guards. Its also easy to forget that detectives are armed as well. There is perhaps an aguement for Gardai being issued with pepper spray,tasers and otter non lethal forms of restraint….
Cal dont think you are right on that one.
I understood that Cal wants all gardai trained but only certain units to carry. Sounds reasonable.
Given that the vast majority of countries in the world have routinely-armed police, are you claiming that police/community relations in all of those countries are ‘damaged beyond repair’?
If the courts would only do their job and give a manatory ten years for thugs caught with a firearm it might be a safer country. Knife crime should also carry a mandatory sentence.
No,we already have the Emergency Response Unit.I just want to see Gardai walking the streets more like they did in the old days.
You mean like the friendly Dixon of dock green fame,don’t think so mate,longing for the good old days are we,they are like the steam engines gone with the wind,time to get real.
Pretty much with you here. If I wanted armed Gardai, I would want them at sensitive locations such as airports, that’s a place where we really should have something in the age of international terrorism. The emergency response unit can be expanded in their roles if needed to combat gangland crime. Outside gangland crime, armed shootings at civilians is rare here.
Walking the streets doesn’t do anything to prevent crime, the chances of a guard stumbling on an assault or burglary in progress is minimal unless you blanket the city with them, and there’s a limit to how many people the state can hire to walk back and forth all day.
@Wastrel
Did you just pull that out of your backside? Because pretty much every city everywhere in the world, where they increased the numbers of and visibility of police on the streets experienced a dramatic decrease in crime. NYC is famous for this, where thanks to their “A cop on every street corner” approach they went from a crime epidemic to record low levels of crime.
You’ve only to think back to the gang of teenagers who ran amock in Temple Bar last year for six months before being arrested. They were arrested within a few days of the Garda brass holding a huge meeting, followed by a press conference where they said “Hey! Maybe if we put more Gards in Temple Bar, it’ll help.”
Totally agree, I feel so much safer in New York than walking down O Connell street. Garda presence makes a HUGE difference.
They are nothing but thugs and bullies, give them guns and we’ll be like America, a police state with too many lunatics with guns.
Nothing but bullies? Facing thugs all day, many while earning slightly over minimum wage. Shut up Aldo.
But they pulled me over speeding when I was only 15km/hr over the limit! Bunch of thugs, have they nothing better to be doing?? /s
What would you expect Traffic Corps to do?
Stop speeding then.
I think you missed the sarcasm, hence then ‘/s’ at the end.
That reminds me….DO NOT allow the traffic corpse anywhere near weapons….
It’s the lack of training throughout the force that bothers me, and has bothered many a recent inquiry. Think we’d better get the basics right first from car driving upwards.. ie tailgating is not an Olympic sport, indicators are not optional extra, and not every chase needs end in a loss of life.. Than perhaps focus on the armed response side of things.
Facing thugs all day? Like peaceful protestors, harassing young people and beening aggressive to intimidate ordinary decent people?
perhaps you should shut up until you research a little bit more, or have you not been keeping abreast of the what’s been happening?
Perhaps it is you who needs to shut up until you educate yourself!
I bet if you asked Aldo, he’d tell you about the time he was walking down the street minding his own business, and the Gardai dragged him down an alleyway and just hammered him. True story. Swear to God. Not a word of a lie.
Any more bad jokes to tell ? if so Aldo keep them to yourself thanks.
I bet he’s one of those people that videos the water meter fitters, shouting laws he doesn’t understand at them trying to annoy them into lashing out.
Meatyslaps you were over the B speed limit so why are you asking ?
Its about time the Irish police are brought up to standard with proper gun training, all the criminals are armed. iits laughable that the Gardai are supposed to challenge suspects without any protection.
Every copper should have a standard semi automatic pistol as part of their standard equipment.SOME coppers should also have access to 5.56mm assault rifles and combat shotguns….having completed the exhaustive certification and training of course…inc psychological evaluation.
There’d be so many more gun deaths if they were. There will always be some trigger happy fool in an armed police force, arming them would be a terrible idea
Yes at least in rough areas.
Who decides what a “rough area” is
Where the big crime families live.
So, Crumlin and Foxrock!
Jaysis wept, with the state of some of the inept Gardai being recruited these days, now people want to give them weapons. Scary thought.
Leave the ERU to do their job
Meath seems to be where all the gangsters are hanging out now
Create more Emergency Response Units and more 24/7 cover of same but I’d definitely be against arming rank and file beat cops and traffic corps etc. Although I would be in favour of all members being provided with bullet proof vests as opposed to stab vests.
well, the criminals have guns, so…….
I have friends that are police in the UK.
The ones I know do not want to be armed.
If they want to be armed they apply to the firearms unit but they have to accept that they could very possibly be put in a position to kill someone.
And the ones I know don’t want to be in that position.
Look at the madness in the United States!!! Police officers shooting unarmed suspects more than likely because they are in so much fear for their own lives, but whatever the excuse more guns are not the answer. Bloody hell can we not learn from their mistakes!!!!
If the gardai are given the right to bear arms, so should we, provided we are certified and trained.
All should have tazers. More should be armed and patrol regularly so they can react quicker. Continue to reassess on an annual basis.
Tazers Jesus no
Everyone will have w view on this. My own two cents is that most decent people don’t see the side of life that Gardaí work with. Decent people want the Gardaí to nicely dressed, pleasant, and unarmed. And that’s not a bad thing in itself. But the majority of Gardaí don’t regularly deal with decent people, and when they do, decent people don’t regularly pose a threat. The 80% of the time that you’re dealing with the filth of society, it’s with considerable risk. Assaults, weapons – knifes, syringes, guns, explosives, staged attacks in estates, no go areas, threats to Garda spouses and families, are all regular everyday occurrences. The advent of high powered military grade weapons, along with widespread use of body armour by criminals means that most Garda units that are armed are already outgunned. The problem with arming the Gardaí is that training and development are so far behind that it puts Gardaí decades away from most modern policing services. I would heartily recommend that uniform front line regular units be armed with tasers minimum. For what it’s worth I want those same units armed with a gun.
Arming the police will only create a larger black market for buying guns & before long, all the criminals will be carrying them creating our own gun culture. There should be a nationwide increase in the amount of armed response units in all areas but to arm the everyday Garda on the street, no.
The crims already have their gun culture…remember that fine gentleman in limerick was showing off his latest Glock and accidentally put a round into his temple?about 10 years ago i think…
If not guns, they should at least be given tazers.
Bit harsh, being tazered for no car tax
So the same gardai who only a few weeks ago told us that if there was a Paris style terrorist attack in Ireland, they would panic and now they want guns. I think the gardai are becoming as far removed from reality as our politicians. I have no problem with specially trained armed units but to give the average panicky cop a gun would be a disaster.
Dav O, ah are you suggesting we arm the Garda before they are properly trained Maybe you you are mixing up what quick response means ?
Gardai, and especially detrctives, should be properly trained, equipped and armed. The threat has changed with gangsters and terrorists wielding assault rifles in Paris and Dublin. I had written about the lack of security at Dublin Airport, particularly a visible armed presence, eight years ago. Only now has that been rectified.
Detectives.
@DOn, I thought detectives are trained armed if they chose so, no?
@Tony, as far as I am aware, Detectives are armed!
They are but Uzi smgs were withdrawn leaving them only with pistols. The Uzi should be replaced and Gardai trained on the new weapon. I saw too many detectives with an Uzi in a special briefcase lying on the backseat of a car, out of reach.
It’s a silly idea really. You’d have to have an armed guard on every Street corner 24 hours a day waiting on the off chance that an armed criminal wanted to commit a crime. The chances of that happening are slim at best. Better to ensure that kids and young adults are given the chance to get employment and a decent education so that hopefully they won’t start out on a path to criminality in the first place.
Unarmed Gardai are no match for todays gangsters Gardai need to be just as ruthless when a weapon is pointed at them.
Very easy for people to comment that don’t do the job. Automatic weapons are already readily available in Ireland. And have been for decades. The only difference is that criminals are not as afraid to use them anymore
Could just up the aunty for all
Leave my aunty out of this.
(i think you mean ‘ante’)
Most of them only go through the emotions i had trouble with a neighbour before and he kept roaring and shouting at night time having parties loud music,call the guards each and everytime oh we cant arrest him he is on private property,which i think is an utter joke any other country they would be out with the batons over here oh we cant do much about it why because ye are only going through the motions and dont care.
People act like violent crime is a new phenomenon that we need drastic measures to tackle immediately. Does any remember The Troubles?
And remember what police firearms are for – protecting Gardai when there is a deadly threat to themselves or others, not to solve crimes by shooting the place up. How would armed Gardai have helped in the past? Tony Golden was probably ambushed and that was a job for special branch anyway. Adrian Donohoe was armed, but was ambushed and outnumbered. After that, you’re looking at maybe Andrew John Callanan in 1999 or Jeremiah Desmond McCabe in 1996. If Gardai has been armed in that time, I believe it would have lead to more death, not less.
List of Gardai killed in the line of duty:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Garda%C3%AD_killed_in_the_line_of_duty
Under no circumstances should any member (other than the ERU) be armed with a firearm. Tazers and pepper spray along with non lethal beanbag rounds in special circumstances are sufficient.
The role of the Gardai is the protect the public. You cant protect the public with peashooters. You can stop an ISIS attack if you don’t have guns.
I meant “cant” not “can” in the third sentence.
the gardai should be armed but only when we have a mechanism to hold them accountable,unlike the mess called GSOC,the cul-de-sac for brutality complaints
The majority of Garda can’t wear their uniform correctly or clean their boots never mind being put in charge of a lethal weapon. They should be armed but only if the entire Garda training system is sorted out. Starting with communication classes and work from there.
Legislation is needed. Not guns. Arming the force will only lead to more illegal weapons being carried by criminals.
Provide total freedom of speech so journalists can openly print the names of anyone they think are involved in criminal activity.
Update the CAB, means test suspected criminals monthly.
Prohibit cash transactions for anything over 10,000 euro to prevent them from laundering and using their gains.
End prohibition on marajuana.
Offer widespread treatment and welfare programs for heroin addicts to give up names of dealers.
Innocent people are being shot in broad daylight while politicians make backroom deals to ignore our mandate to abolish quangos and clean up politics. Pathetic.
As always though, pay is at the top of the agenda for them.
Same old argument, we need more money to do our jobs. They get it, job still never done. You couldn’t congratulate them for much before the crash and I’m not confident anything will change without sweeping measures.
If they are to get any more money every single Garda needs to be on an active, beneficial role. There are Gardai all over the country sitting in pillar boxes guarding people and things who don’t need it. Literally a guy in the National Museum who’s made a career of sitting in a chair.
Gardai that have been on years of maternity leave once they are secure.
Also mandatory gym time and ban them from Centras. Can never get spicy chicken rolls because they eat them all. We must have one of the fattest forces in the world.
Lets face it, when you walk into a Garda station getting a passport form stamped and you’re made to feel like a criminal there’s something seriously wrong. The government lean on this organisation until breaking point in order to mold them.
There needs to be a fourth organ of state established. The Civil branch where power over Gardai, including their remuneration is handed to the people and not the Executive.
How is “yes” winning this poll? They can barely control themselves with pepper spray and batons!?!
Well said!
We definitely need to be armed now, once the criminals of this country got their hands on all types of guns it was time the Gardai had the equipment to match them,and leave their baton at home. We also have an Army of 7,500. More than half of these should be deployed and trained as Gardai. All they seem to do is send a few over for peace keeping duties and act as security for transferring money. To me they do Very little to keep the peace in this country and if not why do we have so many. They a complete waste of tax payers money and offer nothing to the country, put them out on the beat and do something credible instead of playing war games in the curragh. They have weapons training,get them to do something for their own country
Sure, militarise the police force.
That’ll end well!!
To quote Commander Adama – “There’s a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people”
Tricia – Don’t start quoting a war hero you Fracking Cylone !
“Whaddya hear Starbuck?”
“God Damn Toaster”
If I was (the final) Cylon, I wouldn’t be quoting Adama…… I’d be quoting Taig……..
TIGH!!!!
FRAK!!
Give the Garda an MP7 and a Kevlar vest and have it stored in the trunk of their car in a sealed case that is bolted to the frame so it can’t be stolen. A mag or too of Armor piercing wouldn’t go amiss.
Garda has access to their weapons reasonably quickly if they need to respond to a situation but you don’t have them walking around with a pistol on the holster.
Best of both worlds?
Of course Garda should be, and are armed, it’s a question of how many. I don’t know, if they were able to manage the IRA and other security threats then I think it’s a manpower and resources issue rather than ‘we don’t have guns’. I wouldn’t like to see all Garda armed, maybe more armed units though but I think it’s largely a resource issue tbh.
It’s very interesting how the vast majority of comments, and red and green thumbs, are against it, but the poll has a majority saying yes …
Utilise the army here more they are trained to deal with war so anything they would have to do here would be simpler, are already trained to use weapons and have them why waste money training guards and buying weapons for them
Exactly Postman Pat, Gardaí are under resourced,They don’t have the numbers to correctly police the country, especially after Alan Shatter’s intervention. We have 7500 in the Irish Army, for what??? Transfer numbers to the Gardaí and have specialty armed Gardaí units. They have the training but they are not utilised in this country, If not get rid of 3/4 or the army and get in more Gardaí.
I recommend phasers. This way they could set them on stun for traffic violators and kill for water protesters. Easy!
Bit drastic to bring in guns so that criminals will follow suit. Better as a start to have proper prison sentences.
I don’t think the general Gateau should be armed just the response units as is, but we should have more response units
It must get tiring re running old polls time and time again. Absolutely some gardai need to be armed but only highly trained specialist units attached to district stations. You couldn’t give Pat, the garda with a chip on his shoulder and a happy trigger finger a gun at his disposal.
I’d be in favour of non-lethal weapons, tazers, rubber bullets, etc… problem with a general arming of gardai (with lethal weapons) is that all criminals would then take up lethal arms… some may argue that they have already but I’ve never heard of a burglar or mugger using a gun on anyone, just certain gang-related criminals. I’d prefer my house to burgled by someone who doesn’t feel they must carry a gun in case the garda show up…
Maybe in the car or known areas where gun is high. But not while they are walking down OConnells st, Grafton st or watching the match in Croker. Sends out the wrong message
There should be more armed units and there is allso the army in a aid to the civil power the more guns on the street will be more dangerous see America for example the police force are all armed
We may need to look at the way they treat protesters at the moment, now imagine there being guns involved, look back at the John Carthy shooting and tell me if Gardai should be allowed have guns, as long a go as it was. New facts coming to light are that Templemore actually looklng for the more aggressive members of the public to join, they want them more confrontational with people, hence, they do not need guns
What so they can shoot water protestors instead of beating them! Great idea.
Our army is armed.. Garda can cause enough harm to innocent people without being armed..
htt
have your say