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THE QUESTION OF whether rank-and-file gardaí should be armed is being debated at the annual conference of the Garda Representative Association this week, as officers meet in Killarney.
It’s a topical issue, coming in the wake of the Paris and Brussels terror attacks – and as a gangland feud continues in Dublin.
Opinion appears divided in the force itself – and when it comes to the wider population, there’s an almost 50 – 50 split between those in favour of arming all gardaí, and those against.
The latest TheJournal.ie/Amárach poll in association with Claire Byrne Live asked, simply, ‘Should all gardaí be armed?‘.
The responses showed 44% in favour and 43% against with 13% undecided.
More males than females answered no: 48% of men were against arming all members of the force, as opposed to 38% of women.
Support for arming the entire force was stronger among younger age groups – with just over half of 18- to 24-year-olds in favour of all gardaí having guns. Among those aged 55 plus, that number fell to 31%.
Note: This poll was conducted before last night’s shooting in Dublin took place.
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Rank and file should absolutely NOT be armed. But there should be a lot more special armed units.
Such a shame that this is starting to happen. When my husband and first arrived in Ireland over 10 years ago from. SA, we were amazed that the police we saw walking around the city center here never wore any guns. Watching the security guys from the Cash in Transit Vans collecting money from banks was an eye opener for us. No AK 47 machine guns, bullet proof vests in sight. Now that’s all about to change because we have people in our society who have no respect for the law and think that they can just do what they like with no regard to public safety or how the rest of us would like to live in peace with none of this B. S.!
Detectives are armed as far as I know and always have been. Some cash in transit vans do have an army escort with plenty of hardware on display. Nobody has ever tried to steal from an armed cash delivery escort…that is saying something right there.
Bring back hanging. Soon put a stop to all this. All sterilisation. I should be dictator.
They are armed in the states and that make the gun crime go up … So it don’t work … But look journal I know it’s in the Lisbon treaty that all cops in Europe be armed … So stop with yer bs
Eddie that’s not really accurate, armed police does not correspond to an increase in gun crime.
Most army escorts are gone now, the banks taught they were costing too much, sure the soldiers who were on them got very little extra pay for them anyway. Still think that more guards should be armed.
Yes it dose …
what about Sweden, Norway, Spain, Switzerland, Japan…………….
All safer and less gun crime but with armed police
I wouldn’t trust the rank and file gardi with guns as far as I could throw them
I’ll second that be worse than America with people getting clipped
Taser guns and pepper spray something that will take someone down without killing them
The quality of pepper spray used in Ireland is extremely low. Ask any number of Gardaí and they’ll tell you it’s at best 50/50 whether the pepper spray works. If Gardaí were issued with stronger Gardaí then that might be worth considering as a measure.
Pepper spray is not worth a shite. The slightest wind and everyone gets it.
I think the events of yesterday evening in Dublin lead heavily towards the Garda being an armed force. And let’s be honest, as bad as it is, it’s going to get worse.
Put it to a public vote, we can ask it at the same time we ask the question about whether our water should be sold off.
Oh no our we can’t as our democracy has been taken by a corrupt band of men from Limerick that don’t want their scam in the public eye. We need police resources investigating what is taking place in the set up of Irish water and those politically involved in the setup.
It doesn’t have to get worse, everyone and his dog knows who these people are, bring in special gang laws and remove 400/500 all over the country. Those directing from Spain if they make contact with anyone here lift them as well.
We can make them wear stars on their arms so they are easy to spot?
We don’t have room in mount joy so we can have special camps for them ?
Have any of our European neighbours any ideas about how we can run the camps?
Stephen when was the last time Gardai were shot at? It’s not like America where police are involved in shootouts with criminals all the time. What happens in Dublin is hitmen take out their rivals but what are armed Gardai going to do about this, absolutely nothing unless there are thousands of them on the streets 24/7 to try and prevent such incidents. An impossible situation that guns on gardai won’t help at all.
And how would gardai being armed stop random attacks in random locations?
They might actually arrive at gun crime scenes in time to be effective, catch or kill, rather than being “stuck in traffic” until its all over as understandably happens at the moment.
PaulJ,
It’s not just about guns or Gardaí been shot at. It’s also about having accessibility to options when a criminal tries to ram the Garda car with Gardaí inside. Or when the knife is pulled out to stab Gardaí. And it’s not just knifes, it’s scalpels, sharpened metal bars, syringes, machetes, samurai swords. Gardaí have been shot at a number of times, it’s a regular enough occurrence across the country.
I for one can’t get over how some people see themselves as so entitled to decided what options a Garda should have for dealing with some calls they respond to. I don’t go deciding what Bank of Ireland employees should wear (and wether that outfit is too aggressive or upsets my sensibilities). What will continue to happen is that the public will be put at risk, and people will be killed, and the Gardaí that could have been armed but are not, will merely sit back and wait for the armed patrol to come halfway across a city or county or region. I’ll remind people when they scream ‘not good enough’, that they decided to tie the hands of the Gardaí in the first place.
How many more unarmed Gardai shot will it take before they are armed. Drugs and soft sentences given down by out of touch judges has made society more dangerous and officers need to respond to this. Guns are not mystical items they are tools. Give the police extra protection by providing these weapons.
The Throwaway…comment of the day.
So the gardai should shoot anyone who rams a car, pulls a knife or scalpel or assorted sharp items, the problem with this is to normal people/children who could be injured as a result. Instead of getting a bigger stick, maybe the courts should severely punish people carrying these weapons with high minimum sentencing laws. If you know you get 5 years for carrying a deadly weapon, ranking up to higher for firearms then the desire to carry is reduced and everyone is safer.
I’m unconvinced that these ambush type murders will be prevented by arming every member of An Garda Siochana. It seems to me that the killings are sudden, swift and over fast. The killers abscond quickly and seem to have their escape plans well planned. They are well gine before An Garda Siochana arrive.
I would prefer not to see shoot outs in the streets of Dublin. Armed Gardai are more likely to be killed or injured in the unlikely event of intervening in the middle of one of these hits if they are understood to be armed and to pose a threat.
There is also the important consideration of the risk of death or injury to members of the puboic, innocent bystanders, in a shoot out between An Garda Siochana and hired killers.
Instead of arming all of an Garda, devise protocols for how best to deal with the aftermath of these incudents.,
It’s not just about arming Gardaí for a gangland response. It’s about the everyday incidents of knifes been pulled on Gardaí. Of car rammings, of guns be drawn, and of armed robberies. It’s a small minded approach to say that gangland is the only dangerous situation a Garda will ever deal with. There are everyday situations from barricade incidents, to Gardaí been attacked. The level of violence encountered by Gardaí has long escalated to the point that uniformed Gardaí measures are now needed. The debate shouldn’t be ‘will we arm or not’, the situation and debate now is at a point where it has to be decided who we arm, and how many we arm.
There was a lad on the radio yesterday and he was saying that at the moment it’s all or nothing. They’re either armed with guns (ARU) or they’ve a baton. He said there’s a lot of middle ground there with the use of tasers and bean bags and these should be rolled out to rank and file Gardaí first.
((((Yes))))
(((((No))))))) we had this discussion yesterday
(((Depends, probably some GardaI but not all of them, all of the time))) ………..Which seemed to be the opinion agreed with by the majority of people.
No way José
I’m happy to leave the decision to a vote by Gardai.
I go along with that,they face the thread daily.This will be another typical Irish scenario where we talk and talk but no action.These thugs know that if they meet an unarmed guard there is only going to be on winner,if perchance they are caught they face a judiciary reluctant to hit them hard or poorly written legislation that allows some barrister to drive a coach and horses through it.If all of that fails the thug knows there is always some liberal who will shout foul.This is the perfect storm,society breaking down and politicians playing political games,many many more are going to die.I don’t care if these gangs obliterate each other it’s the killing of innocents I abhor.To those in my age group over 55 who want things to remain as the were,you can’t times have changed there is no going back we must respond accordingly.
Yes, time to get in the real world.
We need more Garda and the garda stations opened back up that those idiots closed. More garda on the best for Intel etc. More rapid response armed garda. And pay them a better wage and bring back overtime.
Last thing we need is shootouts between the guards and assailants
But how many shootouts with Gardaí have you seen, heard, or read about? There’s already armed Gardaí, and they’ve managed to not shoot everything that walks. Maybe you’re just scaremongering a little?
As many as it needs for common sense to prevail, in the 70s and 80s the biggest threat to law and order and the state were the IRA. Now the biggest threat is organized crime gangs, gangs who have no fear because they know if they encounter a Garda presence they can shoot first and ask questions later. Between an unarmed force, an inept and antiquated judiciary, and gunmen with no fear of consequences, this has become a very dangerous country.
Sorry stephen the biggest treat was drug dealers and drug gangs. Our government choose to concentrate on Sinn Fein and IRA and allowed these drug gangs to take control. If they clamped down on the dealers back then we would have this problem we have today.
In my opinion the biggest threat to our country is the negotiations taking place place behind closed doors between the two biggest political parties.
These guys would happily creat a fascist police state in order to prevent the public eye being on the corrupt scam created in Irish water.
If the guards say they need to be armed with the meniscal wage they get then the least we can do is if they want it arm them. It is a very sorry state for the country to be in and I personally don’t think adding more guns in the equation will resolve it.
We need a real investigation by the police force into those that are politically linked to the setup of Irish water.
Stephen, as far as the state’s concerned the biggest threat comes from water protesters. I wouldn’t trust the Gardai with a water pistol.
How many articles are you going to have on this?
Yes they should be armed, they are there to protect the people and they should be able to protect themselves.
They must remember also when they use their guns to make sure it is not an innocent person, which has happened in other Countries.
You don’t give your car to a mechanic and then take away his spanners.
Give the people to whom we have entrusted our safety the tools to do the job.
Few of the the ones I’ve ever had to deal with. Obtuse would just about describe some of them. To carry a gun you have to be trained properly, reasonably intelligent and with lightening quick responses. They would have to look long and hard and do some seriously analysing and evaluating and even then, I would say quite a lot of the current crop would not pass the psychological tests involved. Like yesterday, Yes but with that qualifier of serious and proper training.
All French police are carrying side arms….its rare if ever that bystanders get clipped and they were able to storm the bataclan in jig time…arm the gardai..give them all they ask for..and more.
2 people shot overnight. Yes, ffs.
You want armed Gardai stationed in every pub? How else could an armed Garda have prevented last nights shooting?
The armed response unit was there in minutes. No need for all Gardai to be armed.
If rank and file gardai are allowed to bear arms, so should civilians provided they are certified. The Irish culture might not like this, but it’s the only way forward. Tyrannical governments have existed in the past and if our gardai are going to bear arms, we also need to be able to bear arms. All it takes is one bad Garda to end an innocent’s life.
Most important demographic information would be the split between those living in Dublin and those not. The majority of the country are not living in a crime blackspot and in daily fear for their lives requiring armed gardai patrolling the streets for their safety.
“NO”….That’s easy for you all you “NO” campaigners to say because it’s not you have to deal with this Problem is it..!!
they aren’t trained to drive with the blue lights on how can they train them to carry fire arms.
Put the army on the streets now.
Killings and revenge killings like this went on for years in Limerick and no one was crying out for armed police. This will blow over soon and then we can go back to reading about things that “broke the Internet”
My 2 cents on this. There should be more full time armed gardai and the rest of the force should be trained and have to undergo annual refresher training so they can be armed if the need arises.
The Garda that are trained and have the desire to be armed should be armed…!
Will we be asked this question again tomorrow ?
Sections of our society have become very violent and we have to look at the under lying cause of this. It’s true to say it’s organised crime is at its core and the supply of drugs are at its core. As long as there is a demand for drugs there will be those who will supply by what ever means, no matter how many armed Gardai you put on the street. There are plenty of examples. We have to turn to those who use drugs. It’s so easy to turn on the radio and tv each day and be horrified listening to the stories about these killings and then pop out on a Sat night with friends and take drugs even recreationally. I personally don’t care what someone else does to their own body or what they put into it, but when it has been supplied through illegal means then you are part of this problem. If you trace the drug that you have taken while out on a Saturday night and go back from the friend or dealer that supplied you, to the importer into Ireland/Europe to the supplier in South America (or elsewhere) to the growers or manufacturer, the trail of death a destruction it leaves is enormous. A few people a week are dying in Ireland supplying you the drugs and thousands are dying weekly around the world, yet we continue as a society to not link the two together. Arming the Gardai is not the answer. We each have to take personal responsibility for how our actions effect others. I know it’s not just that simple but any solution must start with tackling the demand.
Let’s face it, people are not going to change their drug taking habits as a matter of conscience. What needs to happen is to take away the illegal market for drugs by legalising them, as other countries have done. Criminal gangs will probably still exist but the enormous profits from drug dealing will be gone
That’s a great point Dave and I do agree to a certain extent but I don’t think it’s quite that simple either. Where do you start and finish with what you decide to legalise. There are dozens (I’m sure more but I’m taking the most popular into account) of illegal types of drugs out there. Which ones do you decide to legalise , how do you control and then police it. Who decides, which ones are safe and which are not. How do you control the dosage and supply. I don’t think it’s as simple as saying let’s legalise ‘drugs’. I think it’s a great debate to have and there is no one solution.
Yes
Plenty of them armed already, they are just incapable of finding the right people to shoot ….
Difficult question!! The thugs and gangsters are armed. How can the Garda protect themselves? And us? Ireland is becoming more dangerous from day to day. The Ireland of Saints and Scholars is fast becoming the Island of menacing thugs and murderers!!
Yes there should be a certain amount of specialised guards who Cary guns but not all guards. all guards should be trained and carry tazers. History proves across the world that just because you have an armed police force this does not mean that you will solve the issue of gun crime this is a fact, and listening to knee jerk reaction oh let’s arm our guards is ridiculous, they are not even allowed to drive their cars with blue lights on due to lack of training and now certain people want to put guns in their hands pure stupidity in fact it puts the fear of God in me to think of some guards being given a gun. In my day a phycriatric evaluation was required and you were assessed before you even got near a weapon and if you were not suitable you were stopped from becoming an armed officer, Im worried a lot of these checks maybe shortened and bypassed just to get armed officers on the streets.
Yes , Garda should all have side firearms, every thug can now get their hands on sawn-offs and handguns on the street for rental for a couple of hundred euros .
Media eegits trying to condition the population and most population too stupid to see it.
Armed police is an abomination and step towards police state.
Also it will encourage next generation of criminals to go gun crazy.
Arming gardaí in Ireland? What could go wrong?
1) The gangs make their money through drugs. Legalise and regulate them. The more dangerous ones we can decriminalise at the least.
2) Switzerland, Cyprus, Sweden, Norway, etc all have the lowest crime rates in Europe. It also has the most heavily armed populace.
In the US, the states with more guns/liberal gun laws have lower crime rates too. Vermont, New Hampshire, Utah, etc.
have your say