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Water charges might be scrapped - so should we pay our bills?

It remains unclear whether billpayers will be refunded or non-billpayers will be pursued.

WATER CHARGES LOOK set to be suspended as part of the deal between Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil to set up a minority government, but what will that mean for people who have already paid their bills?

And what about those who haven’t?

The Dáil today heard statements on Irish Water and water charges, but uncertainty – among politicians and the public in general  - appears to be growing in relation to two key issues:

  1. If you paid your water bills, will you get a refund?
  2. If you didn’t, are you going to be pursued for money owed?

While the answers to these questions remain unclear (and, obviously, we can’t recommend a course of action) the statements set out below from the two parties brokering the deal will give you some indication of what might happen…

If you paid…

In January, Irish Water said that 928,000 customers (or 61% of its customer base) had paid their bill in at least one of the three cycles up to that point.

But TheJournal.ie reported in March that there had been a surge in customers cancelling direct debits since the general election, as the future of water charges and the utility itself was thrown into doubt.

1916 Easter Rising commemoration Niall Carson Niall Carson

The agreement between the Civil War parties (which has yet to be signed off upon) will apparently see a suspension of charges while a commission of experts examines issues like alternative charging systems.

But it’s unclear whether those who paid their bills will be refunded if - at the end of this commission-led process – the Dáil votes to abolish charges.

Ask the experts 

Speaking on RTÉ’s Morning Ireland today, Fine Gael’s Richard Bruton said bill-payers should get their money back, insisting:

We will defend to the hilt those who have paid their charges – it is a fundamental principle that those who do their civic duty in that way should be treated equally.

On the same programme, Fianna Fáil’s Billy Kelleher said the issue should be left for the commission of experts to decide.

But he agreed that in the event of water charges being scrapped, people who paid should get their money back.

However, last month Fianna Fáil’s environment spokesman Barry Cowen said that while axing the water charges was “imperative” for the party, they wouldn’t be able to give refunds.

We can’t change the law retrospectively, as much as we’d wish. We were not in government so we couldn’t stop this fiasco, as much as we tried.

This reflected the position of Fianna Fáil throughout the election campaign.

If you didn’t pay

Those who didn’t pay could be forgiven for imagining they won’t be pursued any further if water charges are suspended.

However, Bruton said those who have not paid their water charges will be fully pursued when a new charging system comes into place.

Irish unemployment figures Brian Lawless Brian Lawless

The acting jobs minister observed that as the law stands, no property can change hands until the water charges are cleared.

He also promised:

Those who were in default will have their bills pursued.

When that new system will come into place isn’t actually clear however.

Kelleher told Morning Ireland he could not put a time frame on how long charges would be suspended for.

So what’s the deal? 

For the moment it remains to be seen what action – if any – will be taken against those who did not pay their water charges.

Meanwhile, Irish Water says it has received “no final policy change” resulting from the current political talks.

When we are informed by government of any policy decisions that affect Irish Water or water charges we will assess the implications of those decisions for our customers, our operations and for our staff.

So for now, non-billpayers can probably expect a few more of these:

IMG_0080

Read: Minister says if water charges are scrapped, people who paid should get their money back

Read: Majority of Irish people support suspension of water charges

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244 Comments
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    Mute will
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    Jun 20th 2016, 1:47 PM

    He wasn’t well. I don’t doubt the family and state are happy with the verdict. Sad day for all involved

    158
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    Mute The Girl
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    Jun 20th 2016, 1:57 PM

    How do we deal with stigma attached to mental health?

    60
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    Mute Giant Reid
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    Jun 20th 2016, 2:00 PM

    We can’t, we just have to make sure the next generation don’t have the same sigma.

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    Mute will
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    Jun 20th 2016, 2:04 PM

    Here here .. we’re all battle some sort personal issues. If your offerd help you should listen to it and not be embarrassed or ashamed . We’re not all the same,we’re all unique.

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    Mute The Girl
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    Jun 20th 2016, 2:21 PM

    Sometimes that help doesn’t come. A few months ago, I had been battling depression. I lost my job over 2years ago, cut backs, my spouse’s income was not enough for a young family, we were stuck in a lease that couldn’t be broken and renting a new place was impossible as we’d need deposit and 1month rent that we couldn’t afford. I sort help from my GP and was sent to this place where I was asked to pay 25euro a session. I went twice but could not afford to keep going. I went to DSP and begged for financial help till I got a new job. I was told there’s nothing they could do because one spouse was working and his income was 10euro above the treshhold. I’m much better now because I told myself I’ll be strong for my family. Some people don’t know how to cope and gradually fall off the cliff.

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    Mute Giant Reid
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    Jun 20th 2016, 2:30 PM

    It’s not about knowing how to cope. This is an illness that will get u weather you’re depressed or not. To much emphasis is put on depression and anxiety and not enough info or discussion on the serious illnesses.

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    Mute Harlowe Brendan
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    Jun 20th 2016, 2:42 PM

    I think depression is a serious illness as well. The difference between mental health and mental illness is huge. We could have one without the other.

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    Mute The Girl
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    Jun 20th 2016, 3:02 PM

    They all go together@Giant. The sucide rates are high because people don’t know how to cope, don’t get help or are worried about getting help due to stigma. and in this case remember his mum was worried about the stigma. The conversation is wide and we need to talk about mental health

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    Mute Charles Williams
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    Jun 20th 2016, 4:08 PM

    “He wasn’t well” This man was a clear danger to himself his family and the wider community, The authorities should have intervened earlier and taken the burden of a decision on commital from the family. It was a clearly a public safety issue which went well beyond the family. This is not the first and it won’t be the last ssuch incident.

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    Mute Martin Bonner
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    Jun 20th 2016, 6:36 PM

    The Girl, go to your GP and get a long term illness form.

    Depression is one of the conditions that is on the long term illness list.

    Your GP can help with the diagnoses and you will be entitled to a medical card so that you can get whatever help you need.

    Remember , you’re not alone.

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    Mute Stephen murphy
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    Jun 20th 2016, 7:16 PM

    Don’t forget, how shame and judging was used by religious organisations as a tool of control of the population and we are paying the price of that abuse now or in the future.

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    Mute will
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    Jun 20th 2016, 7:55 PM

    GPs are very understanding to the cause of stress there harm in sitting an chatting there him/her and they can point u in the right direction. There’s always some out there to talk too.i know the cost is a barrier but there’s way round that.. Best if luck the girl :)

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    Mute Carina Clarke
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    Jun 20th 2016, 9:20 PM

    My heart goes out to this family. I hope their brother gets the help he so badly needs. I cannot begin to imagine the pain this whole family are going through.

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    Mute Ciarán Masterson
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    Jun 20th 2016, 1:45 PM

    @Eugene

    He’s better off in the Central Mental Hospital because he is mentally ill.

    He killed his parents but he didn’t know what he was doing. Therefore, he is not a murderer.

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    Mute Giant Reid
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    Jun 20th 2016, 1:52 PM

    I feel sorry for that guy and the family. When he gets back to some level of reality he will be devastated. He will be medicated and watched and will be mentally alone for the rest of his life

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    Mute Giant Reid
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    Jun 20th 2016, 4:28 PM

    His mother didn’t get him help because of sigma. If he got help she wouldn’t have been killed cause he would have been admitted to hospital until he came back to reality. He didn’t have help did u not read it. And yes people with this type of serious illness are monitored everyday until they are not delusional.

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    Mute Tess Mullally
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    Jun 20th 2016, 6:47 PM

    How sad for the poor family. And for anyone even considering trying to hide mental health issues from “the neighbours” just remember if you threw a stone into a crowd in any town, village or crossroads in Ireland you’d hit someone who suffer with mental health problems, your not alone please get help for the people you love it’s a tough journey but they need you to be strong for them, just like you would for physical health problems, hold your head up and be proud that you are doing something good for the person you love. X

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    Mute Harlowe Brendan
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    Jun 20th 2016, 2:44 PM

    Yeah good point, lock very one up then next. We could have ten new ballinasloe s filled by the end of the year if we really discriminate and try not to understand ! :/

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    Mute Proinsias Ó Foghlú
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    Jun 20th 2016, 3:01 PM

    I know a lot of people will say he can get better with meds but personally I’d prefer if he spent the rest of his life in the CMH. I think he could do the same again if he stopped taking his meds.

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    Mute Demise Grad
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    Jun 20th 2016, 6:04 PM

    Proinsias I doubt he will be let stop taking his meds it’s quite common that people with schizophrenia believe they don’t need their meds or even that they are being controlled through them and so endeavor not to take them. In these instances and I’m sure in cases like this involving such high risk, depot neuroleptics are administered to prevent avoidance of taking medication

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    Mute Dell
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    Jun 20th 2016, 5:31 PM

    Giant Reid is correct and they are monitored long after they are no longer delusional by both family members and the HSE. Life can go on once people just accept that it is what it is and it needs monitoring and not judgment or stigmatisation. The way I see it, there isn’t enough help and support for families when someones mental health does start to deteriorate and there isnt enough done to inform people and educate them with regard to people with mental illnesses.

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    Mute Demise Grad
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    Jun 20th 2016, 5:53 PM

    Karen somebody at high risk like that would be given depot neuroleptics once a month or so which are slow release to avoid situations like that where they don’t take their meds.

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    Mute Karen Doyle
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    Jun 20th 2016, 4:05 PM

    There is a stigma against people with mental illness who kill their parents? And probably rightly so! Right Giant, so he was very much supervised to the extent he was able to kill his parents, so what about next time? Why will he be better supervised now if he is allowed out into the community even though this area is hugely under resourced. If allowed out into the community will there be somebody monitoring him all the time? No.

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    Mute Carina Portman
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    Jun 20th 2016, 2:29 PM

    What? You mean he didn’t get a suspended sentence and a telling off on the promise that he’s bound by the peace for 2 years? Imagine an Irish judge jailing you for such a trivial matter at this. I’m shocked.

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    Mute Elaine Quinn
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    Jun 20th 2016, 11:43 PM

    Perhaps people who arent qualified mental health professionals should not post remarks regarding the risk they perceive people with mental illness to pose. We are trying to decrease the stigma attached to mental illness. Trained professionals are best placed to make risk assessments & provide support. Every one of us has a body and a mind so every one of us is susceptible to physical & mental illness.

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    Mute Eugene Comaskey
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    Jun 20th 2016, 8:15 PM

    I think the Doctors report said that he was suffering from whatever on the day that he killed his parents. I don’t think it said that he was suffering from the same illness on the following days . Anyway I have great sympathy for all that family and their friends. At the outset, my point was that if he was convicted of murder he would probably be released after 10 or12 years. Committed to CMH is probably a different thing.

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    Mute Marie Gunbay
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    Jun 21st 2016, 1:16 AM

    By law (Mental Health Act) a person can refuse depot injections even as an inpatient which some clients where I work do. A lot of people after they are discharged are given a follow up appointment in the outpatient clinics in the community. Some attend a couple of appointments and then stop coming for whatever reason.

    On the day of their missed appointment a standard ‘did not attend ‘letter is sent out to their GPs to inform the GP.

    A second appointment is sent out again to the client and if they miss the second appointment they are given a final appointment.

    Failing to attend again they are then discharged back to care of their GP.

    People are re-admitted mainly because of non compliance with their medication. They start to feel well they stop their medication and end up back on the unit. For some sadly it’s a revolving door which they have been in and out for years.

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    Mute Francis Mc Carthy
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    Jun 20th 2016, 6:04 PM

    ” She was also worried that Julian would resent his parents for committing him against his will.”

    She would have been more than likely correct on him resenting them forever more if they had committed him …

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    Mute Jeffre Tomred
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    Jun 26th 2016, 2:41 AM

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