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Comments by Leo about FF's "surreal" focus on water have kicked off a row

Day 62. Still no government.

Updated 7pm

FIANNA FÁIL’S MICHAEL McGrath launched a swift response this evening to criticism of his party by Leo Varadkar.

The acting health minister said earlier that Fianna Fáil’s focus on water during government formation talks was “surreal” and ”ridiculous”.

Speaking to RTÉ’s Keelin Shanley, the Fine Gael TD insisted scrapping charges was the wrong decision and not in the national interest.

Micheál Martin’s party could have concentrated on issues like the health service or the USC, he said.

Not at all – all down to water charges that cost €3 a week – it is the wrong thing to do, it is not in the national interest.

He said it would have been “insane” to go back to the people and fight an election on water charges.

‘Deeply unhelpful’

Later, McGrath said Varadkar’s comments were “deeply unhelpful, unnecessary and self-serving”.

He told the media at Leinster House that he could not understand Varadkar’s timing, and observed that the minister appeared to be positioning himself for a leadership battle within Fine Gael.

McGrath said making such comments when the two parties are so close to an overall agreement made him question Varadkar’s motivation.

The timing beggars belief… those claims can only inflame the situation, I simply can’t understand it.

He said it would make one wonder: “What’s going on within the Fine Gael party?”

We all know there is a succession issue ongoing in Fine Gael.

McGrath said the comments are not going to stall the negotiations.

We are not going to throw the toys out of the pram over this.

Varadkar’s broadside didn’t go down well with some other members of Fianna Fáil today either.

Speaking later on RTÉ’s Six One news Varadkar accused McGrath of making a personal attack on him. Asked whether he would serve in a Fine Gael-led government, should one be formed, he said he would – after responding first that it was presumptuous to assume there would be a government.

Talks 

Both McGrath and Varadkar could agree on one thing – they both hope a minority government will be in place by the end of next week.

McGrath said papers were being exchanged today between the two parties.

One of the main issues still to be decided once and for all is, of course, the suspension of water charges. A draft agreement between the old civil war rivals was agreed on Tuesday.

Unpaid bills

There has been some division among the parties over whether people who paid their bills should be entitled to a refund if the charges are scrapped.

Any water charge bills were issued on a valid legal basis, McGrath said today, raising the question as to whether it was legally possible to rescind the bills.

Minister for Jobs Richard Bruton said yesterday that paying customers would have to get their money back in the event that the levies are voted down by the Dáil. Fianna Fáil’s position is that the over 900,000 people who have paid their bills should not be refunded.

The proposed Fine Gael-Fianna Fáil agreement is thought to involve a suspension of water charges for between nine to 18 months while a commission of experts examines alternative charging systems.

Once the water commission’s report is drafted and sent to an Oireachtas committee, the findings will be debated and voted on by all TDs. Irish Water as an entity is not expected to be referred to the commission.

Minister for the Environment Alan Kelly yesterday slammed the mooted deal during a Dáil discussion on the public utility. The Labour TD said the scrapping of Irish Water would be “political, economic and environmental sabotage”.

He questioned whether the move would be within EU law and warned Dublin would face water shortages if the charges are abolished.

Scrapping water charges

Foreign Affairs Minister Charlie Flanagan said this morning he continued to support the principle of paying for water, but acknowledged that if it was put to a vote today, water charges would be scrapped.

Speaking on RTÉ’s Morning Ireland, Flanagan denied that the party had sacrificed its principles to stay in power, stating that he hoped the talks would conclude in the next 48 hours.

Fianna Fáil’s John Curran told the same programme the focus on Irish Water by his party was justified. The administration of the utility is too expensive, he said.

So what happens next? 

When a deal is signed off on by Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael, government formation talks will then revert back to the independents. Fine Gael are still short of seats and need at least six to form a minority government.

So far, Enda Kenny has the support of two independents – Katherine Zappone and Micheal Lowry.

Substantial talks have already taken place with the independents prior to Fine Gael entering talks with FF, so it is expected that discussions will not take long once they resume.

There are a number of independents in the mix – each one with a particular wish list of what they want

Independent TD Michael Collins said non-party deputies would be taking time to look at what is on the table, and that he expected the process to take two to three days.

Independent Alliance TD Michael Fitzmaurice told RTÉ’s Morning Ireland that he was not going to be “bullied into something… sign up to this and away we go”.

“We are either very close to government formation or very close to an election,” Fitzmaurice said.
I wouldn’t count the chickens before they’re hatched.

Additional reporting by Catherine Healy

Read: Alan Kelly says future generations will “rue” the proposed Irish Water deal

Read: Water charges might be scrapped – so should we pay our bills?

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250 Comments
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    Mute Martin Brennan
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    Nov 20th 2018, 8:12 PM

    Why oh why the surprise Fine Gael are past masters at attacking the poorest in society from children’s footwear to water charges. Leo epitomizes the contempt for those just getting by. Attacking Mary is fine but is a distraction from the fine dining he and his fellow politicians enjoy at the tax payers expense.
    Bet the state dinner for Micky D cost a fair euro the wine alone probably was over 100euro a bottle.
    Attacking the vulnerable is Leo and his buddy Eoins first resort as all the homeless children on our streets attest to

    189
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    Mute Seanniemac1983
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    Nov 20th 2018, 9:00 PM

    @Martin Brennan: mot defending AT ALL, I hate FG, but, maybe he looks after the richest because they actually get out and vote. People on lower rates of income talk a lot, moan a lot, post on Journal a lot but they don’t go out and vote en masse. Just look at SF polling vs outcomes over previous elections. Their support base are working class who simply don’t vote

    55
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    Mute Martin Brennan
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    Nov 20th 2018, 9:20 PM

    @Seanniemac1983: Your absolutely correct and it won’t change unfortunately and those who write the political spin in our media are so self absorbed they just write to promote a culture that keeps them in good jobs while auditioning for lucrative government advisors i.e Chris O Donoghue formerly Denis o Brien employee (technically he was self employed)

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    Mute Seanniemac1983
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    Nov 20th 2018, 10:32 PM

    @Martin Brennan: Would love to see mandatory voting. Results would be very interesting. Or even max two terms as TD so they’re not 100% fixated on re-election all the time

    13
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    Mute David Daly
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    Nov 20th 2018, 11:05 PM

    @Seanniemac1983: I would love to see any candidate worth voting for. That’s probably why people on lower incomes don’t vote, because they can’t be arsed voting in the next batch of thieves

    15
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    Mute Charles Williams
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    Nov 20th 2018, 9:10 PM

    Currently a nurse can claim €733 expenses in respect of buying and laundering uniforms, this compares with around €38,000 for a TD. It’s the €733 that Revenue are targeting not the €38,000.

    106
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    Mute Alan Walter Gallagher
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    Nov 20th 2018, 9:32 PM

    @Charles Williams: TDs get €38000 for laundering their “uniforms”?! Mind you, if theyre laying €60000 in tax on their €200000 wages it about evens out.

    See how I made up the figures too! #smh

    19
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    Mute Jumperoo
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    Nov 20th 2018, 8:12 PM

    Announce a measure where shop workers will lose €120 a year, and Sinn Fein says it’s a significant amount that they shouldn’t have to go without. But if a Budget change meant that somebody on shop worker wages would be better off by €120 a year, the likes of SF would says it’s an insult and a pittance of less than €2.50 per week. Anybody who keeps saying FFG out, to give something new a chance, should recognise that SF are just as two faced as the rest of them.

    98
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    Mute Brinster
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    Nov 21st 2018, 5:52 AM

    @Jumperoo:

    It’s not €120 per year either.

    It’s a deduction – not a credit.

    So for anyone earning less than €35k, it’s worth €24 per year.

    Fifty cent per week.

    As you say, if you have someone a tax break worth fifty cent per week, SF would go ballistic.

    8
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    Mute Adrian
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    Nov 20th 2018, 9:11 PM

    I wonder will politicians expenses be included in this expenses crackdown or is it one law for them and a different law of everybody else.

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    Mute Paul Mc
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    Nov 20th 2018, 8:10 PM

    Varadkar acts like a big spoilt child most days.

    110
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    Mute Irish big fellow
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    Nov 20th 2018, 9:18 PM

    Surely at this stage of our development as a mature State, it should be possible for all workers to claim expenses for only genuine vouched expenses. This includes civil servants and public service workers and of course all our public representatives in the Oireachtas and Local Authorities.
    There would be a massive saving of public expenditure that could be given to those most in need.
    Are those in authority brave enough to make such a decision.?

    26
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    Mute Fr. Fintan Stack
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    Nov 21st 2018, 2:18 AM

    @Irish big fellow: So a private sector electrician would be entitled to expenses . But a public service one wouldn’t?

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    Mute ⚡ Seánie ⚡
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    Nov 20th 2018, 8:10 PM

    How does one go about claiming back for tools and uniform????????????

    26
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    Mute Donncha
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    Nov 20th 2018, 8:15 PM

    @Seánie: You don’t claim back. You just get extra tax credits if you have certain jobs, meaning you pay a little less tax. You can check to see if Flat Rate Expenses is on your tax credit cert.

    26
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    Mute David Daly
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    Nov 20th 2018, 8:23 PM

    @⚡ Seánie ⚡: go to revenue website log in and look up flat rate expenses, it’s not a lot you can get. It’s a set amount, if you spent 600 on tools in a year you can still only claim 152 for sparks allowances. None of the other trades matter so they get nothing

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    Mute ⚡ Seánie ⚡
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    Nov 20th 2018, 8:38 PM

    @David Daly: Cheers. I’ll look into it. Every bit helps.

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    Mute John Meade
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    Nov 20th 2018, 9:42 PM

    @⚡ Seánie ⚡: can backdate for 4 years too

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    Mute Stephen Duffy
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    Nov 20th 2018, 8:44 PM

    Interesting to hear Leo’s response to Mary-Lou’s questioning on this matter in the Dáil today. Leo accused Mary-Lou of hypocrisy because she was in New York at a $400 a plate dinner. He accused her of rubbing shoulders with the “super wealthy”… Honestly on what planet is paying $400 for a meal at a political fund-raised the domain of the “super wealthy” Honestly I’d id pay $400 to attend a meal for a cause (political or charitable) I believed in…

    31
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    Mute Keith
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    Nov 20th 2018, 8:13 PM

    Leo the king of spinning & for wasting more money on photo oops on his twitter acct with his stupid socks .fine Gael biggest spenders of tax payers money .

    83
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    Mute Mick Cullen
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    Nov 20th 2018, 8:42 PM

    How much does the lackeys in leinster house lose with this hit on the poor

    32
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    Mute Don
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    Nov 20th 2018, 11:37 PM

    This seems really mean hearted but it should be offset by other tax cuts promised for workers. The middle income class are paying for just about everything and get very little back in tax breaks. The very least that the government should do is put away a taxpayer’s USC contribution into a personal pension fund. Especially so for those workers that dont have any other employer pension contributions. Australia puts 9% of workers pay into personal pensions. Ireland is backward and is elitist in this regard.

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    Mute Liam Byrne
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    Nov 20th 2018, 9:08 PM

    Well, if they’re modest, they won’t be missed too much.

    8
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