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The EU-US ‘Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership’ (TTIP) is a term you might have come across in the last few months.
The landmark deal could result in serious repercussions for many aspects of peoples’ lives on both sides of the Atlantic from health, trade and agriculture, to name but a few.
So, what is it all about and is it a good or bad idea? We asked two commentators to give their views on a number of issues:
Sinn Féin’s Matt Carthy, MEP for Ireland Midlands/North West:
The recent leaking of documents related to the EU-US ‘Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership’ (TTIP) negotiations have rightly raised public fears. They reveal that the United States negotiators are demanding that the EU allow American companies a say in framing EU safety regulations – an unprecedented development which should concern Irish consumers, farmers and small businesses.
Most Irish citizens would find it unacceptable that the Dáil would have to justify proposed Irish legislation to large corporations.
Yet, this is exactly what TTIP is about. The latest leaks highlight the secrecy and lack of democratic accountability surrounding a deal which will have severe and far-reaching consequences for Ireland. Yet public and political understanding in Ireland of what is actually at stake remains incredibly low.
So, here are just five reasons why Sinn Féin opposes TTIP.
It weakens Irish democracy
The controversial TTIP proposal for an ‘Investor Court’ would allow corporations sue sovereign governments for implementing measures that impact on potential profits. This opens up the Irish State to previously unimagined liabilities. It would severely limit the ability of the Irish Government to legislate freely when it comes to public services. It would also have enormous implications for the Irish Constitution.
I have personally received legal opinion from an eminent senior counsel which confirms that if the EU Commission continues with this proposal, it would require a referendum in Ireland. TTIP supporters argue that such a court simply protects investors but domestic courts already provide ample legal recourse for everybody, including companies, who feel wronged.
The commission’s proposal is to provide corporations, and they alone, access to a court which can disregard legislation and constitutional protections.
It undermines the rights of Irish workers
The US has a much lower standard of rights for their workers than exists in the European Union. EU workers are entitled to 25 days annual leave but in the US workers have zero statutory requirements. Without strong rights for workers, prices and wages can be dictated at a much lower rate. The inclusion in TTIP of the aforementioned Investment Court, which would allow investors to sue governments, compounds these concerns.
It is bad for agriculture and food safety
Irish farmers would be among the first to feel the negative brunt of a bad TTIP deal. A final agreement is likely to include vast increases in quota for US meat to Europe, putting Irish Family Farmers into direct competition with US industrial farms who do not meet the same regulatory standards and who do not have the same animal health and environmental standards to adhere to. The resultant lower production costs for US producers will put Irish and other European farmers at a severe disadvantage.
Even the government commissioned Copenhagen Economics Report acknowledged that Ireland’s beef sector could contract by up to €45 million as a result of TTIP. In fact it could be much worse. The stated aim of TTIP is to remove unnecessary barriers to trade through “regulatory convergence”.
However, these “barriers” are some of our most prized standards and changes to them may well have hugely negative consequences. For example – proposed EU regulations to ban 31 pesticides containing dangerous chemicals which are linked to testicular cancer and infertility, were recently scrapped due to threats by the US regarding TTIP negotiations.
Regulations on genetically modified foods and the use of chemicals in food production are vastly different in the EU compared to the US. Under TTIP, practices currently regarded as a health risk by Irish food producers and consumers could become common practice here.
It will lead to privatisation of public services
A stated aim of TTIP is to liberalise all sectors of the economy except those subject to explicit exemption. So far such exemptions apply only to the judiciary and police. Some corporations have made no secret of the fact that they see TTIP as a vehicle to get private access to public utilities such as water, health, education and postal services, leaving these vulnerable to outsourcing and eventually privatisation. It is crystal clear that TTIP will prevent a re-nationalisation of services, once privatised.
It is bad for the environment
TTIP proposed to limit the power of Governments to regulate for sustainable environmental practices. In fact, this is one of the main reasons proponents are pressing so hard for a deal to be concluded. This raises serious concerns that legislative efforts to ban fracking and other environmentally dangerous practises will be undermined.
A moratorium on fracking is currently in place in Ireland until the completion of a scientific survey by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). A similar moratorium in Canada led to the State being sued for Cdn$250 million as a result of ISDS enshrined in North American Free Trade Agreement, which is similar to TTIP.
Irish Government must protect Ireland’s interests
The most disappointing aspect of the entire TTIP debate has been the attitude of the outgoing Irish government. They have seen their role as one of PR agents for the European Commission rather than defenders of Ireland’s interests. They have selectively used reports such as that produced by Copenhagen Economics to set out a best case scenario even though that report clearly states that potential gains from TTIP will disproportionately benefit foreign multinationals often at the expense of Irish-owned firms. The exports of six out of the eight sectors, where all exports are produced by Irish firms, are expected to fall as a result of TTIP.
This is according to the government’s own commissioned report. TTIP is dangerous. We need a strong and vigilant Irish position to protect Ireland’s interest. We cannot allow ourselves to be sleepwalked into a bad deal with huge social costs.
Sinn Fein opposes TTIP under its current mandate and we will challenge any efforts that attempt to reduce the standards we have come to expect on food, the environment, the rights of workers and consumers. The incoming Irish government should do the same.
Director of EU and International Affairs Dr Pat Ivory:
The growth of emerging markets and rapid technological development means the EU and the US today face increasing competition from Asia and other global players. The already strong trade and investment ties between the EU and US make it both logical and strategic to enhance this relationship to face these global challenges. The EU and USA account for over half of global GDP and one third of world trade. Ireland, an open competitive economy with deep business links in Europe and the US, is in prime position to gain from a transatlantic trade and investment partnership (TTIP).
A range of different sectors including life sciences, software, computer services and food and drink sectors, can benefit from a well-balanced TTIP, supporting the development of large and small businesses. In fact, studies show that Ireland could gain twice as much as other European countries – with estimated gains from a successful TTIP of 1.1% in GDP, 2.7% in exports and 1.6% in investment.
However, TTIP is more than a trade agreement it is also a statement of intent. It says that the EU and the US remain strong global leaders in developing the standards and rules that will operate in world markets. We cannot ignore globalisation, with agreements being made on trade and investment with Asia and the Pacific and elsewhere. Someone is going to dictate the rules of global trade, why should Irish and European businesses, consumers and workers not have a say and be left behind?
Transparency and the democratic process
Some have criticised the TTIP negotiations for lack of transparency and for being undemocratic. Though the EU and the US maintain positive relations, it is natural that both sides have strong offensive and defensive interests. While we all, business included, like to see as much detail as possible we must recognise that TTIP is in a negotiation process.
Negotiators need room to do their job; otherwise nothing will ever be achieved. Furthermore, in comparison to previous trade and investment negotiations, there is significant public information available on TTIP. Much of this can be viewed online, including the EU offers and negotiating mandate. Ibec and its industry sectors have made Irish business views well known to the EU, which also consults widely with trade unions, consumer groups and civil society. The EU and US chief negotiators also hold public sessions during each round of TTIP negotiations where interested groups, including business, can ask questions and put forward their own positions.
TTIP will ultimately be ratified by the European Council and Parliament before it can come into force, so national governments as well as MEPs will have the final say. In summary, the criticism that the TTIP negotiations lack transparency and are undemocratic is simply not supported by evidence.
Employment and job creation
There is much evidence to support the view that good trade and investment agreements simulate economic growth. Of course many factors, including the growth of technology, can affect where people work over a period of time. There is no conclusive research that says free trade agreements result in unemployment, sometimes jobs decline in one area while jobs grow in other sectors. TTIP can definitely support employment and job creation in Ireland.
In an open economy Irish businesses already compete with US and European businesses. TTIP can particularly improve competitiveness for Irish SMEs making it easier to export and that has the potential to create jobs across the regions. Independent economic studies also predict that a successful TTIP could increase Irish real wages by as much as 1.3%.
Health and public services
There has been a lot of talk in the UK and Ireland about the privatisation of public services under TTIP, particularly in the health sector. EU and US negotiators have made clear that they are not interested in negotiating on mandatory privatisation in trade agreements. The truth is national governments will have the same power to keep services under public control or to privatise elements post TTIP as they do now.
Better alignment of regulation and standards
Critics of TTIP have also somehow equated regulatory alignment with lowering standards in health, food safety and other areas. Despite having the world’s most advanced regulatory regimes, EU and US businesses still have to comply with two separate systems governing, for example, product labelling, testing or inspection of premises. The vast majority of these regulations are different because they were devised independently and not because of divergent public policy.
Better alignment of regulations and standards can reduce the cost burden on business, making us more competitive in an increasingly challenging global environment. The benefits of better regulation would be even important to small and medium sized businesses, who have more limited resources than larger organisations.
Investment protection
There has also been much discussion on the inclusion of investment protection in TTIP. Investment protection clauses already exist in 1,400 bilateral agreements signed by EU member states since the 1960s. These have not circumvented the ability of governments to legislate in the public interest.
Investment protection is essentially about designing a framework for conflict resolution in the case of illegal expropriation or discriminatory treatment against foreign investors. Such a mechanism does not require a state to revoke a law or to pay compensation to a foreign investor when ‘in the normal exercise of their regulatory powers they adopt … regulations that are aimed at the general welfare.’ The European Commission has proposed a revised mechanism – the Investment Court System.
The proposal enshrines the right of governments to legislate and regulate. It also increases transparency: through open hearings and making comments available online. While investment protection remains a topic under negotiation it is clear that an amended and modernised mechanism will be necessary.
Irish investment in the US has fallen in the last two years; a strong TTIP is an opportunity to recover our position as one of the top 10 sources of FDI in the US.
A balanced TTIP has the potential to increase trade, create jobs and keep Ireland competitive, with benefits for business, workers and consumers. It is important that we have an open, evidence based discussion on TTIP and not one driven by ideological rhetoric.
Now it’s over to you. What do you think — get involved in the comments section below. Share your opinions below.
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Ah America. No to the International Criminal Court. Yes to an Investor’s Court.
Ttip is pure evil.
Totally against it, look at big tobacco suing Australua today over plain packagibg! A small taste of things to come.
Im anti ttip and anti eu now but ttip will leand to the breakup ofbthe eu. Countries like france and hungary will just say F U not here. No mondanto evil here. No pcp in beef here. No fracking here etc.
Ttip would be a disaster. And alot of americans are against it too..
This will also help the brexit leave campaign no end.
Anything with the hnds of the EUSSR and Obama on it is dangerous in the extreme. So far for example the extradition treaty between the USA and UK has been a one-way street as America has never given up one of it’s citizens to another country. OK then Chris Stevens was an exception but you get my point.
@MackPilon
“OK then Chris Stevens was an exception….”
Chris Stevens was murdered by terrorists, not his government.
If everything is out in the open and all aspects are transparent, however this is a huge proviso and currently details of the agreement seem shrouded in secrecy. Ordinary citizens do not trust those negotiating, there is also a huge hangover from the last crash which has exposed many aspects of capitalism as crony capitalism. And of course a huge issue who does it benefit, if everyone that’s great, however anything that is not transparent and secretive, I would always have my doubts.
Chris Stevens was murdered by the neglect of Hillary Clinton and that’s that.
The only American U.S presidential candidate (funny how all the libtards and peasants here refer to the U.S president as “The President”) to oppose TTIP is Donald Trump, yet he is the anti-freedom evil one?
Donald Trump just says the opposite of whatever Obama or Hillary says. Who here used the title “The President” when referring to Obama?
I’m afraid Trump has come out with all the policies which the corrupt libtard power elite have tried to force down our throats, he is the first one to stand up for America and the world by saying NO to mass-immigration.
Obama doesn’t say anything except read the script handed to him and put on teleprompters. Trump is a nationalist and says it is time to oppose anything that is not good for the nations people, about bl**dy time too. People are sick of the libtard tail wagging the dog, wrecking our countries.
1916 You will find Donald will very quickly change his mind once in power. He is already trying to row back on many of his campaign promises which he needed to make in order to covet the nut case wing of the republican party. 1916 do you really believe a billionaire businessman, who has been bankrupted on a few previous occasions, has business all over the world is against the power elite, he is one of the power elite and will act in that fashion. Trump is not a nationalist he is a me feiner, if you think Trump will change this landscape you live in lala land.
@ktsiwot
Meanwhile all the business-class bought and paid for media are frothing at the mouth he has even brought up these issues. Sure he could do nothing about it. But he is the only one who has talked about it and opposed it in public.
Are you saying people should support Sanders and Clinton. people who have been proven to champion the agenda of TTIP and wall street, that makes a lot of sense, and you talk about lala land.
Sanders is pro TTIP and Wall Street?
1916
Well if you believe what Donald says that up to you, I for one do not believe a word that comes out of his mouth, his previous actions I will go by in these he has proven himself as an elite and will act that way in power.
@Kal
It was suggested Trump would change his mind on all his positions once in power. The implication is that Sanders or Clinton wouldn’t, if anything they are even bigger hypocrits, Trump makes no bones about being a business man and making money, he was in West Point, loves his country and recognises when it is being destroyed, the other 2 will perpetuate what politicians have been foisting on the global populace for the last few decades liberal Obama accelerating it:
On Sanders:
“With such an anti-Wall Street platform, one would think that Sanders didn’t own any stock at all. But not only does Sanders own stock, he actually is invested in several industries that he’s heavily criticized.
Sanders has railed against the “Big Banks,” “Big Pharma,” and “Big Oil” but that hasn’t stopped him from investing in and profiting from any of those industries. ”
http://garnetnews.com/2016/04/04/bernie-sanders-invested-wall-street/
This guy has spent the most on campaign funding:
Several consulting firms have reaped millions from the Sanders campaign, most notably the media agency Old Towne Media and Revolution Messaging, a consulting firm led by veterans of Barack Obama’s 2008 presidential campaign. Old Towne Media has received nearly $25 million from the Sanders campaign and Revolution Messaging has collected more than $16 million, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.
As if this hypocrit would be better than Trump and would defy TTIP, pure rubbish.
@ktsiwot
Never said I would believe everything Trump says.
I made the point however why would that automatically mean you should then go on to believe what the other 2 Sanders and Clinton say. I made the point, if anything they were even more likely to be untrustworthy and at the very least, Trump has publicly stated and brought to the attention of millions, that TTIP is bad, that mass-immigration is a scam and destructive to any host nation.
@ktsiwot
Btw you cite Trump’s previous actions as something you go by – one of bankruptcy, yet the vast majority of his business ventures were successful and created 10s of 1000s of jobs, so why do you focus on the minority aspect of bankruptcies rather than the majority aspect of his successes and creation of massive employment? Which really discredits your point of going on his past action.
Bernie Sanders is anti-TTIP and free trade agreements in general as they only benefit big business at a huge cost to the environment, food safety and workers’ rights.
Trump, on the other hand, takes advantage of these agreements and his manufacturing jobs are located outside the US
He was bankrupt 3 times at least, not against him making money or creating jobs, that is not the issue here, the issue is Donald is the elite I cannot see how you do not get this. Donald goes back on everything he has said and has a way with words. Have a good look at the below link. Donald is and always has been an elite, when in office he will do as told by the elite. This is one of the points from the link below.
Trump on Hillary Clinton in 2008: “I know Hillary and I think she’d make a great president or vice-president … she’s smart, tough and a very nice person.” He also lauded Bill Clinton, calling him a “great President”.
Do you understand English?
I have answered you comment about his bankruptcy already and whether or not he would change his mind or not twice.
He admits himself he was on the other side of funding politicians. He says he knows exactly how these people operate, they are bought and paid for, they do what big wall street money tells them. For example Goldman Sachs were the biggest campaign contributors to Obama and the republican candidate. Did you ever criticise Obama as being a money man president?
Not all billionaires are globalists, some actually still love their own country and nation. The elite are all the big bankers on wall st, ALL of them bar one is owned by a certain unmentionable tribe who also control and own the media and hollywood. Those are the elite, they are not Trump and they are vehemently opposed to Trump, precisely because he is not one of them. He’s a billionaire, but he is not one of “the Chosen tribe”.
@EllieEs
How naive. Just like all the naive liberals who think Obama is gods gift to humanitarianism, while bombing the sh^^t out of innocent people around the world etc.
Sanders is another liar and hypocrit whom the libtards are brainwashed to fall in love with no matter how tyrannical his policies once in power. This liar has all his investments in all the things he purports to be against.
On Sanders:
“With such an anti-Wall Street platform, one would think that Sanders didn’t own any stock at all. But not only does Sanders own stock, he actually is invested in several industries that he’s heavily criticized.
Sanders has railed against the “Big Banks,” “Big Pharma,” and “Big Oil” but that hasn’t stopped him from investing in and profiting from any of those industries. ”
http://garnetnews.com/2016/04/04/bernie-sanders-invested-wall-street/
This guy has spent the most on campaign funding:
Several consulting firms have reaped millions from the Sanders campaign, most notably the media agency Old Towne Media and Revolution Messaging, a consulting firm led by veterans of Barack Obama’s 2008 presidential campaign. Old Towne Media has received nearly $25 million from the Sanders campaign and Revolution Messaging has collected more than $16 million, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.
As if this hypocrit would be better than Trump and would defy TTIP, pure rubbish.
Most people who invest in Funds leave the details up to the Fund Manager. In a diversified portfolio you are likely to touch on lots of business sectors. Hardly indicative of him being in the pocket of Wall Street.
Wait till he’s elected, he’ll be first in line to push it through.
The best way of looking at it is to think about whether you’d prefer to live and work under U.S. or EU laws and regulations. Workers rights, attitudes towards public health, and an utter disregard for the environment are just some of the reasons why I’d prefer not to be ‘Americanised’. Oh but it will be good for big business, so i guess that’s alright so
It’s called globalisation, which D. Trump is fighting against.
TTIP and multiculturalism (code for cheap-workers) go hand in hand.
You cannot have multinational corporations rampaging around the world doing as they please if they never have an easy access to willing and disposable cheap slave labour, which is exactly what multicultural mass-immigration is all about.
Thought up by big business and leftist leaders who as usual betrayed the worker once they got into powerful money positions (just like SIPTU here in Ireland), they sold you multiculturalism as your new religion. You are only a good person if you are seen to champion multiculturalism, you draw societal disapproval and ostracisation if you don’t.
They got extreme leftist open-border pushers and their NGO’s like European Network Against Racism (funded by Soros and billionaire Chuck Feeney) to enforce it and threaten you with “thought-hate-crimes” if you oppose it. These open-border pushers are the lapdogs of the TTIP business class.
If it goes ahead in its current form, then we need to join the Brits, and get the hell out of this Union.
We don’t need to join anyone, just leave the decking monster that the EU has become
TTIP will be very bad news for Ireland. Why is the US trying to push this forward, yet keeping the whole thing a secret? Do you think that they’re doing this for our benefit or there own?
Bit of a mad conspiracy but what if the brexit is an attempt to force the EU to agree to TTIP. England does whatever he US wants that’s no secret and it’s a bit of a coincidence they are both occuring around the same time??
Think that’s a bit of a stretch and a bit unfair on the brits. I’d see it the other way, the best chance of having a fairer TTIP deal is by having the brits in the room, they’re probably the only country in the EU with the balls to challenge the yanks
I’ll admit it’s a bit of a stretch but when have the Brits ever challenged the US (in recent history)
The only ones with the balls to challenge the yanks is Iceland.
Agreed this Eu lark us getting out of hand, ttip will ensure that the children of the not super wealthy will lead lesser lives.
Be afraid, very afraid.
Something of this importance should not be discussed by a few people behind closed doors and without any updates on what is being discussed.
Just who gave these people the right to negotiate this in the first place and will people be given the right to vote on the agreement before a few officials vote this is in as a law?
Usually when something is good for you , you get to hear all about it. With ttip it’s all in secret , so why are they hiding and doing it all in secret.
Why does fg think this is OK?
One of the most controversial aspects of the proposed deal is the inclusion of an investment court system (ICS), which critics argue would give corporations the power to sue sovereign states in trade disputes.
In a potentially major blow to the Government and EU hopes for a deal, legal opinion seen by the Irish Examiner claims such a court system would require a referendum to be ratified.
There soukd be alarm bells going iff around the whole secretive process surrounding the TPP and the imminent threats that passage of this legislation may pose to our Republic. Its a criminal treaty and any Irish politician signing this off is a traitor imho.
The last I heard the TTIP draft is not even available to members of the public to read. It’s being kept secret. That’s a red flag immediately.
If and when it does go through, I highly doubt it will be a good deal for Europe, as most of our food regulations are stricter than those of the U.S. You can buy a lot of dodgy, corn-fed, hormone-laden meat products in American supermarkets that wouldn’t be allowed to be sold here.
So if you want cheap american turkey twizzlers then TTIP will be a good thing, otherwise I don’t see the point of it.
We would be forced to use white butter aswell. Hard to see American meat selling over here. If this can’t be done in an open,transparent manner, then it should not be done at all.
Anyone know when we will actually get to see the proposed agreement? Here’s the “ongoing commitment to transparency” from the EU (Breaking News… March 21st!): http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/press/index.cfm?id=1477
green peace have it here:
https://www.ttip-leaks.org/
Hogan and Hayes are pushing this in Brussels-when their not chasing their secretaries around hotels of course.
This will ruin this country for the vast majority of us and short of a revolution there is no going back. It should be brought to referendum and fought against.
its like the “vote lisbon for jobs” crap has started yet again.
The secrecy surrounding this trade deal is what sets off alarm bells. Ming did a great job in heaping attention on this.
The ISDM provisions should be enough to kill it on its own. If this deal was so good for the working person surely europhiles would be parading it around as opposed to burying it in a reading room with layers of secrecy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-VckxfWwNw
From what I can tell corporate lobbyists have had unlimited access to this deal and effectively wrote most of it. this beast needs to be put down.
Holiday pay will have to be harmonized with American holiday pay…in the US workers are entitled to 0 hours of holiday pay. And All public services must be privatized. This is just two tiny snippets of fact released from TTIP it’s designed to prop up America and big business at our expense…ask yourself why would our politicians support this.. It’s simple it’s the same reason Alan Kelly brought in bin charges and is fighting on behalf of his brother for water chargers who is CEO of a company that runs national water companies around the world….it’s for personal profit at our expense.
Under what provisions of TTIP suggest EU holiday pay will have to be harmonized with American holiday pay?
Where is it stated that all public services must be privatise?
You say “This is just two tiny snippets of fact released from TTIP”, where were they released?
Loads of red thumbs for asking a question, but not a single source cited. Grand so.
Alan Kennedy you have failed to offer anything other than hand-waving. do you know anything at about anything??
“We believe that public health legislation in Ireland is under serious threat unless a planned trade agreement between the European Union and the United States is significantly altered. ”
Irish Cancer Society who know lots about their particular interest.
Alan Kennedy you have failed to offer anything other than hand-waving. do you know anything at about anything??
I asked a question. How is that hand-waving? Dean stated the two things he mentioned were “two tiny snippets of fact released from TTIP” I simply asked for his sources for these.
You quote the Irish Cancer Society (but didn’t link to your source, quoted the first line and nothing else too, however I’d already read their comments on this) with regard to Tobacco companies suing states who pass legislation to curb smoking rates. The fact of the matter is that they already do this, the example being the Philip Morris case against the Australian Government over generic cigarette packaging. Philip Morris lost that.
They took the case though an existing trade deal and it was adjudicated by a arbitration court through the existing “investor-state dispute settlement mechanism within the Hong Kong trade deal.
As I’ve explained below the European Commission has proposed an Investor Court System (which I have a link to and explained in more detail below) which is more better and much stronger that the ISDS. Moreover, it contains the clause in Article 2 “The provisions of this section shall not affect the right of the Parties to regulate within their territories through measures necessary to achieve legitimate policy objectives, such as the protection of public health, safety, environment or public morals, social or consumer protection or promotion and protection of cultural diversity.” so were the investor court to be part of TTIP Philip Morris could not (or could try, but would fail) to being a similar case against an EU member state. This propose Investor Court System is being attacked by Carthy in the above article for supposedly enabling organisations to do what they already can when it actual fact it is designed to prevent them from doing what he’s saying it will.
TTIP isn’t perfect, never will be, but it is far from concluded and will be dramatically different to what it might be if people weren’t engaging in the process. What is important is engaging effectively. The Investors Court proposal is an example of that, being much more favourable that the ISDS we’d otherwise have to use without it.
Europe is not good for Ireland. With Brexit will come our exit..
Are you saying the EU has never been good for Ireland or is not good for Ireland in it’s current form? Nope, There won’t be an exit from the EU here, we have high approval ratings according to the Eurobaromoter. Probably won’t be a Brexit either.
He’s not saying much, which is usual for people making such statements.
When they do make further statements they generally end up repeating the repeatedly disproved fallacies we know and love. Straight bananas and suction-less vacuum cleaners anyone?
In similar previous agreements between the USA and other countries, services that ‘could’ be privatised had to be listed and agreed on………in this TTIP agreement services that are ‘not’ to be privatised are to be listed.
Now as a mental exercise to show how this makes things difficult……
First….list the things you want privatised.
Now….list the things you do not want privatised.
Which list was easier to make? which list is bigger?…how easy would it be to leave something of the list in the second exercise?
Ok, so the first reason to support it, according to Pat Ivory, is to prevent economic growth in Asia and other emerging markets thus ensuring that the EU and US continue to control 50% of global GDP and 1/3 of the world economy. This sounds like the type of merger that the EU usually opposes as it’s anti competitive.
ireland will gain twice as much as other economies 1.1% in GDP, 2.7% in exports and 1.6% in investment – so the rest of the EU can expect growth of 0.55% in GDP and our export figures will surely be hit by a Brexit if it occurs, so the the figures, I’d imagine are highly speculative.
There is no conclusive evidence that TTIP will result in the loss of jobs – it must be expected then, if that’s the best argument he has for that fear.
No mandatory privatisation of public services – maybe not mandatory, but encouraged.
Investment protection is still under negotiation but it is clear that an amended mechanism will be necessary – I’m sure we’ll get it!
Dr Ivory finishes by stating that we need an evidence-based debate and not one driven by ideological rhetoric (whatever that means), but I see no evidence in his rhetoric.
“A well balanced TTIP agreement can support growth and jobs” Please don’t make me laugh, the meaning of a trade agreement like TTIP it means that everybody is against everybody, dog eat dog. Oh yes, it will bring grow for business mostly. Imagine what Irish Ferries did but registering their ships abroad or Norwegian Air registering in Ireland, but in a massive scale. Who is to say Kraft foods in the USA can flood their cheap radioactive products in Ireland, forcing Kerry Foods to outsource their operations. Then we’re left with less skilled jobs, a radioactive cheese and a Kerry Foods as Irish as Irish Ferries?
“forcing Kerry Foods to outsource their operations”
Kerry Group are an international company with locations around the world,Primarily the US and Europe
The US accounts for 50% of their Ingredients and Flavours business. 33% is EU based. In fact they’re the largest food ingredients company in the world holding almost twice the market share of their nearest rival US based Dupont.
This video I posted already before explained the history how and why we should be afraid
https://youtu.be/ABDiHspTJww
@ William Bayle, I watched it the last time you posted it, very interesting video, I think everyone should have a look!
When EU Trade Commissioner Cecilia Malmström states “I do not take my mandate from the European people.” then you know it’s time to be worried.
What else did she say? It wasn’t a unbiased source which reported that quote.
“The government must protect Irish interests” … LOL… We’re doomed then so…
To my absolute horror I think I agree with Sinn Fein on this one
Illuminati lizard overlords
You’re right Ron…….no people would engineer a situation where the taxpayer would pay for debts of a private company, it’s ridiculous………………………………………………………..mmmmmh…..hang on!
“Negotiators need room to do their job, otherwise nothing will ever be achieved”. Sounds reasonable enough. However, we do not know who these people are, who appointed them, who wrote their brief or what it contains, any vested interests they might have, who precisely they are answerable to and so on.
The EU in it’s institutional form has become a monstrous unaccountable one totally out of contact with the ordinary citizens it is supposed to represent. The proposed TTIP should be treated with the greatest suspicion.
Time for Eirxit, do you want to be controlled by the great satan USA ? That’s what’s planned, ISDS courts, regulatory co operation where vermin from fracking companies and geo engineering airlines and Monsanto get to write the legislation for your politicians, in the interest of trade of course, even the dumbest of blueshirts must understand this is a modern day annexation of sovereign states fully supported by Peter Sutherland, Simon Monsanto Coveney who planted his brothers in top jobs in rte and Glanbia to pave the way to gmo foods and censorship. Bilderberg rats not wanted in ireland let’s all make a stand against this.
As our government supports CETA and TTIP I’d prefer to take my chances staying in Europe and being a part of the growing campaign against these free trade agreements.
I’m all for free trade agreements. They are undoubtedly positive for the people who are part of them. It’s touted to be worth ~€100bn in trade for both the US and EU. But, as you say I’d much rather we were party to the formulation of the agreement to ensure it’s the best it can be and take advantage of the opportunities it provides (which for a small export-led country with huge ties and affinity to the US are incredible) then be outside the tent p–sing in.
Full transparency and democratic accountability is required.
For this reason TTIP must be opposed on principle.
David icke touted this years ago. Stop the one world government now. The people are waking up.
David Ike is also mad as a bag of badgers.
Not so mad now ? Yeah some of his stuff is mad but he’s right about TTIP
He believes humans are a race of pets bred as an experiment by lizard people, some of whom walk among us disguised as humans. He’s f–knuts.
You know those greedy billionaires use what these mad men say like Ike to tint what they do because it is their humour. What is happening is a madness of greed and control through money, that is all by mad men…
Genuine question.
Could American companies sue the Irish government for having legislation for more than 6 weeks maternity leave?
Could a gun manufacturer sue for not being allowed to sell guns?
Yes
Unsure about those specific scenarios, as I think it will only apply to changes in legislation in the future?
Say, if we decide to grant more maternity leave then what is given now. This deal might give US corporations reason to sue the government.
or if we increased the minimum wage.
Or, reducing the amount of hours people work full-time from 39 to 35, etc.
No.
TTIP just like the NAFTA agreement benefits the USA more than other countries signed up for it. Take the 5th freedom rights regarding air transportation,A few years ago the USA wanted US airlines to be able to just say. Stop off at London off load their passengers re load passengers and just say head to Paris. But when the EU enquired about European airlines doing the same in the USA, The US government said no way so I could only imagine what is being negotiated behind closed doors.
The commission suggests it would boost the EU’s economy by around 1/3 more than the us. The advantages being a boost of about €120bn trade to the EU’s trade, the US’s by €90bn and the rest of the world by €100 billion.
Dan Carlin did a great hour long podcast on this. Frightening stuff indeed
We need to upraise against this from what I read , it wont bring much good to our rights and freedoms, things you cant do in US can be done here, then the same with the EU, they be just playing our legal system to get what the want, while we ordinary can do nothing cause the rights they give us come at a price with so many legal loopholes.
Interesting the counterargument for a re-negotiated agreement. But here’s the thing, we don’t need it. And I wouldn’t trust any guise of this maligned contract that serves corporate us clinging desperately to economic power. F@ck off!
EU workers entitled to 25 days leave?
Lazy feckers.
But none for striking Garda lol.
Donal, In the middle ages the Catholic Church had 80 holy days, you weren’t suppose to work on???
The EU is never going to sign up to a deal which doesn’t benefit the EU. The EU has spend pretty much it’s entire existence raising standards in every area from food production to workers rights. They have done this much to the chagrin of the very same people who have been ranting and raving about leaving the EU because of this “interference”. Now the same people are ranting and raving about the EU supposedly wanting to lower the standards they’ve been raising for years and that this is a reason to leave the EU! Which seems a little bizarre, if not hypocritical, to be honest.
To repeat – the EU is NEVER going to sign up to a deal which doesn’t benefit the EU. Lowering the standards that have seen so much hard work to raise is not going to happen.
If you look at the previous EU/US agreement the Open Skies Agreement, it was much criticized by EU airlines for favouring US airlines, but in terms of standards the US companies who wanted to operate here had to abide by the EU’s higher standards. It was also, undoubtedly, a massive benefit for passengers in terms of airfares and routes.
The problem with TTIP is the manner in which is it being negotiated. In far it is because of the involvement of industry who are notoriously secretive. That said, while this doesn’t please me in principle, the lack of transparency which also makes me dismiss the comments of the people mentioned above who were heretofore bemoaning the EU for raising standards in many areas across the EU. If it is as secretive as they say how do they know what he deal contains? I’m disinclined to trust populist politicians (Ming and SF being just that) on what they have to say on the matter too.
From my own discussions on the matter I know that the European Parliament (politicians of all parties and ideologies) are not happy with TTIP, because of this the negotiations, which were to be concluded last year, are unlikely to be concluded for another 4-5 years.
In the case of Pat Ivory (who is Head of EU and International Development at IBEC, which you might have missed as the article, strangely, doesn’t give the name of the organisation he works for) I think his support is more supporting the principle of the deal, rather than the deal itself (as we don’t really know what it is) which is to liberalise a huge chunk of global trade. This is undoubtedly a positive thing and something I would support, provided it is done properly and in the interests of everybody involved, not just a select few.
But again, to repeat, the EU is not going to sign off on a deal which diminishes the quality and standards they’ve worked tirelessly for years to raise. MEPs, who will have the final say, will simply not countenance doing so.
TTIP is important, but it is important that we give it proper consideration and push for it to be as open as possible. Outright rejection based on conspiracy theories and amalgamated anti-EU nonsense isn’t going to serve anyone as it will, rightly, just be dismissed as the ineffective noise that it is.
We do need to trade more with the US but on the other hand, I am strongly opposed to the secrecy involved in these negotiations. I am concerned by the Investor Court idea, which would allow companies to sue national govts if their profits are impeded.
Rosa companies can already do that. We already have the Investor-to-State Dispute Settlement System. The Investment Court System, was proposed by the European Commission (not the US or any company), to establish a better system for TTIP over using the current ISDS method, which if applied to TTIP would have some serious shortfalls. Many of them are exactly what the misinformed people are claiming would be the result of the Investor Court, which is absolutely not the case.
For instance, the reason it was proposed over ISDS is to address the exact reason the Sinn Fein chap is saying would happen with the Investment Court System. The Commission proposed Investment Court System is deisgned to strengthen the dispute resolution mechanism to ensuring that all actors, both investors and states, can rely on a transparent transparent which based on public justice and contains clear rules. The current system is ad-hot and relies on private arbitration courts.
The proposal intends to create and Investment Tribunal of 15 judges (5 US, 5EU and 5 Third country) with an Appeal Tribunal of 6 publicly appointed members (1/3 EU, 1/3 US and 1/3 Third Country).
Further, and importantly, it gives national governments the right to regulate as they see fit, stating that investment protection provisions do not prevent governments from changing the legal framework even if this has a negative impact on investment expectations (see below). Again in direct contrast to what the SF chap is claiming.
It provides “standards of investment protection”, guarantees to investors which government must respect. Which are:
- no expropriation without compensation;
- the possibility to transfer (and eventually repatriate) funds relating to an investment;
- a general guarantee of fair and equitable treatment and physical security (e.g. denial of justice, targeted discrimination on manifestly wrongful grounds such as gender, race or religious beliefs or on the grounds of harassment);
- a commitment that governments will respect their own written (and legally binding) contractual obligations towards an investor; and
- a commitment to compensate for losses in certain circumstances linked to war or armed conflict. Another guarantee – against nationality-based discrimination – was already included in the European Union’s formal proposal to the United States on Trade in Services, Investment and E-Commerce.
Which one of those seems problematic to you?
Much of the proposal is based on existing EU trade agreements (Singapore and Canada).
You can read the full commission proposal here:
http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2015/september/tradoc_153807.pdf
As an example the first section of Article 2 reads:
“The provisions of this section shall not affect the right of the Parties to regulate within
their territories through measures necessary to achieve legitimate policy objectives, such
as the protection of public health, safety, environment or public morals, social or
consumer protection or promotion and protection of cultural diversity.”
Sounds positively devious, right?
Once again facts go down like a lead balloon in the rabble rousing echo chamber of Journal.ie’s comments section.
Alan please go back to your desk in FG hq cheers. Death to TTIP DEATH TO THE EU
Maybe you could come up with something close to a proper comment on anything I’ve said, rather than waste people’s time with childish crap like your above comment?
This is a hugely important deal and people ought to be as informed as they can be about it.
Maelstrom, the top EU negotiator on this,when asked about people’s concerns,replied”I do not get my mandate from the people “,says enough about this deal.
Soundbites are great and all that. But in reality a single quite taken out of context and published in an article written by a politically motivated organisation isn’t worth much.
It would be nice to have access to the entirety of what she actually said. You know, for the sake of making an informed decision.
TTIP is all part of the elites master plan for globalization. it will mean that cheap global labor will rule over local goods and services. Just one thing that i wanted to note is the privatization of public services is not something we should run away from, what is the track record of the govt when it comes running cost effective services full stop. its terrible and creates unsustainable, bloated money pits. Ultimately we should allow a free market model for Transport and ultimately water to avoid price controls. Govt should regulate through anti competition laws.
Ok Lawrence keep breathing in the barium your as high as a chemtrail man
Funny :) But seriously the same people behind the Fed, World bank and IMF are the ones trying to get this in place. They control the money and major govts through money and TTIP will allow them further maximize profits and decide who benefits. Look outside of the mainstream media which is just propaganda for the truth…
People fear what they don’t understand
I understand tyranny.
@Alphanautica. People fear what they are not allowed access to. Maybe if it were transparent, not literally kept under lock and key, then we would have a better chance of understanding it. The people are not permitted to see it. Our MEPs are not permitted to report it as it is. Sounds as if there is something they don’t want people to understand about it
People fear change.
Drop dead jack
Fear of the unknown is rational. If the TTIP papers were made completely transparent then there would be less to fear, and probably a lot more to oppose.
I am against anything that puts power into large corporations over sovereign nations. And I certainly fear it when nameless bureaucrats are presiding over something with such an impact on my children’s future.
People fear having a system they don’t know anything about being shoved down their throats. Lisbon II was when European democracy was shown to be a sham.
Further encroachment by Big Government on people’s liberty. No change there. https://youtu.be/UTMxfAkxfQ0
People fear anything FG and their paid shills support!
Ye, and when they have something they don’t understand explained to them they red thumb it and ignore it.
Go figure.
Unless you’re read it…….you can’t explain it , Alan.
I’ve read and explained the Investors Court proposal by the commission. It was ignored and red thumbed. Most people here don’t care about facts.
I lie, Chirs Wakefild, sadly, didn’t ignore it and responded to me with the very detailed critical analysis of what I’d taken the time to explain with
“Alan please go back to your desk in FG hq cheers. Death to TTIP DEATH TO THE EU”.
Unbridled trust in Government is the very dangerous new religion for the masses which could kill us. It dwarfs terrorism, migration or economic misery.
In this age of disinformation only the naive follow the crowd without reading the material.
Most people who are anti TTIP haven’t read the document but are relying on a spin doctor’s ax.
And when they’re given some of the available documentation to read they don’t and instead resort to nonsense like “Alan please go back to your desk in FG hq cheers. Death to TTIP DEATH TO THE EU”.
That guy Chris Wakefield just said “drop dead Jack”. He got 30 thumbs up and 2 thumbs down. All I said was “People fear change”.
People do fear change. The world is changing. The EU on its own is no longer going to be the biggest economic union in the world. The USA and especially the EU are stagnating. Free trade can help us become more efficient and boost income and markets for business. We’ve got to try something. What’s the alternative? Do nothing and sink into a deeper stagnation of falling quality of life, falling disposable income and higher costs of living?
Jack that was meant to be dead right jack apologies
TTIP means more jobs and businesses leaving here, the market here being flooded with cheap goods, GMO Goods and businesses being able to sue governments over laws and regulations to do with employment laws, enviornmental laws and over unions, groups of people and even individuals.
It will mean shoddy goods going on sale here, milk that has the hormone in it due to U.S. cattle being given it to produce more milk and which has been shown to cause bone cancer in people. Also hormone beef from U.S. and Argintina as well as hormoned chicked that has been chlorinated.
Cheap nasty additives put into food and the E.U. being filled with U.S. banking sector.
An post and the HSE being privatised and a private company to do the work of the DSP, Where they will get a bonus for every person they throw off their sick bed in the new FIT TO WORK scheme…
If people and government want free trade then why add rules and regulations instead of removing them instead, removing them would be a better move but TTIP has one function and that is to sell assets to friends of the IMF?
John Perkins, Former Advisor IMF.
“My job was to identify countries with resources that corporations covert, like oil and then arrange a huge loan to that country from the World Bank or from one of its sister organisations. The money however would not go to the country, it would go to our own corporations who would make huge profits, but the majority of the people would suffer terrible as a result, because money would be diverted from Education, Healthcare and other Social Services to pay interest on the debt.”
What happened when the IMF moved in and the debt couldn’t be repaid?
“We go back into that country and say, since you can’t pay your debt, sell your resource oil or whatever real cheap to our corporations without any environmental restrictions or, or social regulations. Privatise, sell your electric utilities, your water, sewage systems, your schools, your jails, all your public sector businesses to our corporations, and in the few cases where we failed economic hitman, the jackals went in and still do and aah, they either assassinate the leaders of the country or overthrow them in coups.”
Greece has got 84 billion in loans over 3 years and Greece in return has to put 50 billion worth of assets into a segregated account that will later be sold off to the global community and when they are sold off by the Troika to banks and to hedge funds. It is estimated that it will make the Troika under 200 billion minus the 84 billion.
These assets will collateralise the loan but is a LEVERAGE BUYOUT by the global community, banks and Hedge funders.
Yet banks and the E.U. knew everything before loaning the money to these countries especially Greece, Many who were in Goldman Sachs are employed in the E.U. civil service like Dragi and it was Goldman Sachs who cooked the books for Greece joining the E.U. in the first place.
Yet only the Troika are the only ones who can sell Greece’s Income Producing Assets and make a profit from them to the Hedge Fund Community.
In 2010 Merkel protected the European banks and Hedge Funds from Billions in losses by putting the debt onto European tax payers. So PRIVATE DEBT from the loans made to countries like Greece were made knowing that they were bad loans. Yet Merkel knew in 2010 what was going to happen.
Then Merkel stepped in as the saviour of the E.U. and transferred all the bad debt from the banks and put it onto the European tax payer by making private debt sovereign debt issue then and therefore a problem of the whole E.U. falling apart.
Austerity was brought in for this, to look after the financial system using politics to cause LEVERAGE BUYOUT SENARIOS. Remember at the beginning of the Euro that the ECB made countries borrow Euros cheaply at low interest rates to banks that caused a boom and a rise in the value of the Euro and yet the ECB knew the financial make up of every country in the Eurozone in tax intake and debt.
Yet these same people knew that AUSTERITY causes debt to rise, to cause job losses and therefore countries to borrow more as jobs create taxes, imports and less borrowing on the international markets but the Troika forced Austerity as it looks now to create LEVERAGE BUYOUT SCENARIOS.
The TROIKA played us, they fed us, they pretended to look after us and when they are ready they will slaughter us like a butcher and that is what the E.U. is.
After Greece then who else as there is Italy, Portugal, Spain and us before they start on Eastern Europe? We have been fattened like farmyard PIGS for Farmer Merkel and friends.
What is left will be used to make TTIP soup with and the only thing that won’t be used is our squeal as no one is listening.
And Merkel will sign the TTIP Agreement for everyone in the E.U. now??? It stinks?
High time we get ourselves out of the undemocratic,corporate fascist E.U. and started making our own decisions. be they good or bad ones, at least they’ll be our own.
Undemocratic?
The European Parliament is made up for 751 directly elected representatives from every member state in the EU. It is the largest parliament in the world.
The council of Ministers is made up of the ministers of the (again, directly elected) governments of each member state. It along with the the Parliament (whose powers have been increasing) now play an almost equal role in legislating.
The European Commission are appointed by National Governments and approved by the Parliament. They can, and have, be forced to resign by vote of the Parlaiment, as happened with the Santer commission.
It’s not at all undemocratic and the decisions made are already our own.
Alan, the European Commission is fundamentally an undemocratic institution.
Democratically elected members themselves electing others, is not democracy. The people have no control over who gets on to the EC, because they do not stand for election.
And yet, the undemocratic EC gets to propose legislation which we are all subject to. How can you defend being partially governed by people we didn’t elect as democracy?
Look what NAFTA did to Canada? TTIP – TiSA Agreement is just the very same…
Luke Ming seems to be the only person who trying to rightly warn us about the dangers if this goes ahead ….we will be doomed
Cleverer people than us with no agenda (Noam Chomsky for instance) understand that the one percent are working their agenda against the rest of us. This is another step towards the Orwellian world of 1984. Thank God for football, gambling and drink.
Noam Chomsky doesn’t have an agenda? Don’t make me laugh.
Those who want it don’t understand it but rely on the crowd to explain it to them instead?
Can’t say I’m against the idea in principle, but I would say two things.
Firstly, the way they’re negotiating it is all wrong. Secrecy gives far too much space for interest groups on all sides to tell spooky stories about how TTIP is going to burn our homes, rape our women and steal our children. It might be doing terrible things, it might not, but without transperency we have no idea, and in the face of silence, the first crackpot looking for a meal ticket from sticking it to “the Man” gets to set the agenda.
Second, I understand that many of the issues stem from both sides thunking their regulatory system is the truth, the light, the only way. I’d say what’s beeded when this cones into conflict is this: If you have to fit a box within two spaces of different sizes, you make the box the smaller size. If a product must conform to two laws, with one stricter than the othwr, then it must conply with the stricter law. End of story. No redress, the product is as a soldier on the parade ground. The stricter sargeant gets his 109 pushups.
You’ll have to excuse my spolling, working off a mobile here :S
Much as I hate to agree with them, the Sinn Fein argument in the article is certainly stronger than tha IBEC one (though Carthy’s statement that “EU workers are entitled to 25 days annual leave” is surely incorrect – 20 days?).
We should be afraid of the ramifications of TTIP. It’s great for big business, and horrifying for people.
If it aint broke don’t fix it.. I know what way id be voting anyway
If you want to know how we’ve arrived at this point in time then you need to watch ‘Requiem for the American Dream’.
http://www.primewire.ag/watch-2775884-Requiem-for-the-American-Dream-online-free
Where have the comments gone ?
EU,ROME and a DAY
have your say