You have to admit Wally, the Syriza politician expressing her dismay at the whole capitalist process by resigning on FACEBOOK was HILARIOUS!!!

Colin,
You have a warped sense of humor if you think there’s anything hilarious about crushing the living standards of millions of people to feed the global financial sharks.

Not warped, just healthily disregarding of hypocrisy.
A supposed anti-capitalist utilising possibly the most capitalist success on the planet to announce dissatisfaction with capitalist is typical of the left’s lack of commitment to their own cause.
I guarantee even you Wally continually participate in the very capitalist environment you despise. If you really were true to your word you’d live in the woods and hunt squirrels instead of sitting in a cafe sipping a coffee, with your nice shoes and iPhone, discussing how bad the world is.

Moran, please change your name to Moron – it will reflect the content of your posts better, and people can just ignore them.

Thanks Mike.
Love the new comedy material.

And for examples of where this has occurred to a large degree in practice: See Venezuela, Zimbabwe and the Weimar Republic

Colin,
You’re sneering at the misery of others. Your mother must be very proud.

And you should also understand that most of the scientific advancement of the past century including the technology behind the information age have been driven directly and indirectly by the state and not through private enterprise. Corporations are extremely reluctant to undertake the long and costly foundational research and development necessary to drive science and technology forward and indeed why would they when that cost can be borne by the state?

All the component technologies which make the modern Smartphone possible such as GPS, the lithium ion battery, LCDs, touch screens, voice recognition software etc were developed through state funded research. Indeed the foundation technology of the Internet itself (TCP/IP) was not developed by private enterprise. It was created by the U.S Dept of defense and assorted other U.S government agencies and universities. After decades of research and development in the public sector, the powerful new communications technology was following market dogma handed over to the private sector to be exploited for profit.

Capitalism is now hugely parasitic on the public sector as even Bill Gates, the richest capitalist on the planet understands:
“Since World War II, U.S.-government R&D has defined the state of the art in almost every area,” Gates said. “The private sector is in general inept.”

http://usuncut.com/climate/bill-gates-only-socialism-can-save-us-from-climate-change/

Richard,
You don’t seem to be grasping the concept. Money creation occurs to a large degree every single day in every floating currency issuing state on the planet. So that includes, Britain, Sweden, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Japan etc tec etc.

Problems with inflation are the result of a shortage of real productive output which is invariably a political problem. See Venezuela, Zimbabwe and the Weimar Republic.

You’re welcome Moron.

When you actually attempt to comment on the substance of the article, rather than just make Ad Hominem attacks on people who make reasoned arguments for their position, you might be worth listening to.

Until such time however, your participation here is simply that of an ignorant tosser.

Cheers Mike.
To know that I can so easily pierce through the thin skin of people like yourself makes my day.
By the way, hope the golf game is going well? Judging from your pic you’re fond of the game. I hope you’re at peace with playing an expensive game that relies on the oppression of all the green keepers who don’t get to share in the profits generated by the club you pay membership/green fees to?

Au contraire Wally – I’m sneering at the left prophets like yourself who bemoan the world of capitalism in the absence of a credible alternative and do so while fully participating in the system they say they despise. You can quote anything you like but until you’re making your point in rags from the top of a tree you live in you have no credibility.
Oh and mammy is very proud of her son who has worked all his life and provides employment to people.

Consider yourself dismissed Colin. The adults are having a conversation above.

Same thin skin as Mike Hall.
It’s so easy.

So says Mike Hall, who just can’t resist launching ad hominem’s at every opportunity – the irony is priceless.

Brexit is looking to be the best way out of this mess, followed by Poland and the Dutch and Danes. Sutherland had a puff piece in the Indo yesterday [ no comments allowed] and if he wants the EUSSR then let that be a warning to all of us. Ireland will trot along behind led by the cabal of schoolteachers.

Wally you got your wish of AAA-PBP Sinn Fein style hard left government there now and still not happy? The Greeks elected the lefties on a “promise” they can’t deliver and now have caused many years of hardship ahead for their people through austerity worse than we had in Ireland.

Note for Irish politics. Watchout for what the left promise. Greece, Venezuala to name just a few of where the hard left have destroyed of late.

Taxpayer,
You understand that the vast bulk of the Greek debt was accrued before Syriza came to power? And that the debt only matters because it’s denominated in a foreign currency for the Greeks, the Euro?
That most developed nations spend their own currency into existence at will and then tax it back out in a continuous flow?
Capitalists love trying to divert the blame to someone else for the catastrophic failures of their socio economic system.

@justanothertaxpayer

Except it was the neo-liberal capitalists [Goldman Sachs] that cooked the books for the Greek right wing Government for years. With a blind eye being turned by the ECB.

The socialists didnt spend anything. They weren’t even in power when this went down.

But carry on with your nonsensical rant.

Wally, you say “debt was created”, like that was the only output. The funds were borrowed and reinvested into the economy, like they are in 200 countries and millions of companies around the world in the anticipation of creating greater productivity and future wealth. Greece, as a whole, messed up. Politically and across the population. They misspent what they borrowed and failed to collect taxes to recoup. I’m not saying it’s every Greek citizens fault individually, but it’s not anyone else’s.

Yes it is Ciaran. The ECB knew as far back as 2005 that the books were being cooked by Goldman Sachs and they kept their mouths shut.

The media ignored the truth so the man on the street didnt know the true extent of the problems. The corruption was aided and abetted by outsiders. Now those outsiders are standing back saying “nothing to do with us, you took the money”.

@Wally – I said the Greeks spent the money – I don’t blame Syriza for it. Although I think they are somewhat guilty for it dragging on so much and getting worse.

@Good – Goldman may well have cooked the books to get Greece into Europe, but that was just to cover up the fact that the Greeks had actually already spent the money all by themselves. Nothing ‘nonsensical’ about that.

Ciaran,

Most counties don’t need to “borrow” at all. It’s only the Eurozone countries that are required to borrow their own currency in the market at an interest rate determined by the market.

Sovereign floating currency issuing states such as the U.K. Japan, Australia, New Zealand etc have no need to borrow a currency they create at will via computer keystrokes. When they do issue government bonds, the objective is to adjust their interest rate to target not because they need to obtain their own currency from private sector agents. Their central banks create and delete money as required.

Wally then by that logic you can’t turn around and blame FG and Labour for implementing austerity here also if it was all done before they came to power by the right wing FF policies of the previous Celtic tiger years?

It’s either they are all guilty of implementing austerity or neither Syriza or FG/labour …. You can’t have it both ways.

Following your currency/debt argument Wally, why didn’t Syriza then repudiate euro-denominated debt and bring back the Drachma?

You’re on the record here as saying the UK, US, can print all the money they like by pressing keystrokes, and that debt and austerity is used against the masses to keep the elite in power.

Surely Syriza could have dropped the euro, left the eurozone and brought in the Drachma. Who needs foreign debt when you can print your own money by pressing keystrokes.

Then they just needed to nationalize the banks and open them for the people, forgive mortgages etc, all with a few more keystrokes.

@ Ronan @ Wally

Alex Tsipras and Syriza carefully examined that idea Ronan.

Here is what Tsipras himself said on 30 July 2016.

“Leaving the euro without any possibility of economic support, and without foreign exchange reserves, would mean a huge devaluation, harsh austerity and further recourse to the International Monetary Fund for support”, he said. “Anyone who doesn’t accept this is either wilfully blind or is hiding the truth.”

Not even Tsipras agrees with Wally.

Edit to above – 30 July 2015, obviously.

Link – http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/doubts-over-imf-role-in-greek-bailout-unless-debt-relief-agreed-1.2302537

Ronan,

It’s not just me claiming that: “the UK, US, can print all the money they like by pressing keystrokes”
It’s a macroeconomic fact. I’ve quoted a few professionals further down in the comments explaining the same thing. (Most of the money isn’t printed though, it just exists as electronic account entries).

It’s not a trivial matter to change currencies. The transition to the Euro was years in the preparation.
It would have taken a number of months for Syriza to revert back to the drachma and in the meantime Greece would be suffering under sustained economic assault from the E.U and internal capitalist forces eager to inflict as much damage as possible as a lesson to others think of exiting the Euro.

Syriza certainly could have nationalized the banks though and forgiven family home mortgages as it’s simply a matter of not extinguishing the Euros which were created when the loans were issued.

So an ordered exit from the Euro with minimum suffering inflicted on the people would have taken some planning which Syriza clearly had not done. But here’s a proposal from MMT’s Warren Mosler which outlines how Greece (or any other Eurozone nation) could exit the Euro and reintroduce their own currency while maintaining its exchange rate:

“First, you start taxing and spending in the new currency. When you do that, you’re just changing your tax liability from euro to drachma. And you leave the number the same: If it was 100 euros, it’s now 100 drachma. Then, you start paying public employees in drachma, and if it was 100 euros, it’s now 100 drachma. You haven’t broken any treaties or defaulted on any debt or converted any bank deposits, and specifically, I say don’t convert bank deposits. If the banks have euro deposits, leave them alone. If the debt is in euros, leave it alone……………..
If, however, you don’t convert the deposits, you leave them in euro, the people who wanted euro, they’re okay, but the other half need drachma to run their businesses, run their lives, pay their taxes. They need to sell euro to buy drachma, because there aren’t any drachma out there. So they’re selling euro to buy drachma, and now the drachma is a strong currency. You’ve created probably the biggest short squeeze in history, because everybody needs this stuff and there isn’t any. That allows the government to sell drachma at a slight premium to the euro. That keeps the currency stable and gives the government a source of euro income to service their debt for some period of time. It gives them breathing space to deal with the new economy without having to deal with a currency that’s collapsing.”

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/34147-economist-warren-mosler-if-the-eu-doesn-t-loosen-its-deficit-limits-greece-should-leave-the-euro

“Most countries don’t need to borrow”… I understand that other nations can print money – that doesn’t create wealth – they are weakening their currency and borrowing from the futures of their children too. There is no quick fix Wally, greed today is paid for tomorrow – 6% and up growth rates and boom times are paid for eventually unless driven by some technological improvements. Neither Ireland or Greece performed miracles – our parents got wealthy at our expense (if you’re young). They owned the and sold the houses which climbed in price, which the young have borrowed to buy. The price being that both members of a couple will spend their lives working for a mortgage, it’s not a conspiracy, it happened, we let it happen, if we want it to change, we’ve to rob back from our parents…

so the aaa are running Greece. aaa got 1.9% here.

nobody can take on big money men. This is life. We were lucky the previous government dud us out of the disaster. They did the right thing and paid the price.

The Greek people voted for the previous governments.

Every country borrows money wally. American owes trillions

Greece is shafted

Wally, the businesses still wouldn’t want drachma as it is not good for anything if the Euro is still there. Businesses would just operate in euros. People working for drachma would essentially be doing slave labour because of the inevitable depreciation. I thought aaa believed in fair pay for fair work?

No Ciaran. There is no direct link between monetary expansion and Fx depreciation (weakening the currency) and nor are floating currency issuing nations “borrowing from the futures of their children” when they create money.

Nor did I claim that money creation is the same as creating wealth. In contrast to instant availability of money, the real wealth of goods and services that we all depend on is created by the labour and skill of the working class from the raw material of the planet. Everything from the food in our bellies to the clothes on our backs right up to the most sophisticated technology is made by the workers.

Money is a claim on that real wealth produced by the working class and this is where money derives it’s power. Fundamentally, money is just a tool to measure and allocate those resources. When a nation hands its monetary sovereignty over to external agent such as the ECB (or financial markets) then it allows that entity to control and distribute its real resources. So the ECB can create euros at will via keystrokes and those Euros can for example buy the labour of Greek or Irish people or the exports that those nations produce.

So when the E.U. imposed the odious banking debt on Ireland in 2010, they effectively laid claim to €100+ billion of Ireland’s real resources labour, energy, exports etc with a few keystrokes. This is the monetary trap that the Irish and Greek people etc have been led into by our political and corporate elites as it serves their interest, not the interests of the majority.

Patrick,

Go and inform yourself please. Sovereign currency issuing states like the U.S., Japan, New Zealand are not “in debt’ as the term is generally understood. They issue and redeem government bonds as a mechanism to drive their interest rate to target, not because they need to borrow their own money from anywhere.

So for example, the U.S is often portrayed as being in huge debt to China. China does indeed hold vast sums in U.S. government treasuries/ bonds denominated in dollars. These bonds pay interest/yield periodically which the Federal Reserve pays by simply pressing keys to mark up the account named “China” on its computer. When the term of the bond it up, the Fed again redeems the value of the bond via keystrokes into the “China” account.

If the U.S. wanted to clear it’s “debt” with China, it need simply stop issuing bonds/treasuries tomorrow and in a few years all the “debt” would be gone. The Chinese would be most unhappy with this move though.

The bonds/treasuries pay a higher yield/interest than the dollar reserves which China holds in another account at The Fed. The reserves are a reflection of the trade surplus which China runs with the U.S where it’s net exports ultimately manifest as large holdings of dollar reserves. The reserves earn little or no interest so the Chinese much prefer to swap them for bonds and the U.S. government duly obliges.
The key point is this. The U.S. has no need to “borrow” in a currency it creates at will.