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John Halligan: 'If I could bring in legislation to goddamn jail landlords, I would jail the bastards'

The new minister for state for training and skills has strong views on what should be done to stop rising rents that are forcing people into homelessness.

29/3/2011. Dail debates Moriarty Reports /Photocall Ireland /Photocall Ireland

JOHN HALLIGAN IS angry.

He’s angry that families are being forced to live in hotels. He’s angry that people on decent wages can’t afford homes. He’s angry at landlords for upping the rent on good people and he’s angry the country was allowed to get in this state in first place.

Landlord speculators driving people into homelessness… if I could bring in legislation to goddamn jail them, I would, for doing it. I would jail the bastards.

It’s rare to hear such colourful language from an elected TD, but it’s also refreshing to hear a bit of passion about a subject matter such as this.

The difference between his anger from this year compared to last is that he now has a seat in government.

The new Minister of State for Training and Skills told TheJournal.ie this new government, with all its talk of “new politics”, faces big challenges ahead.

Sitting in the sun outside Leinster House, there is a sense that the country has moved on from the darkest days of the recession and is entering a new phase.

Landlords and rising rents 

Halligan doesn’t offer any quick-fix solutions, but he does say this government can’t let the country go back to where it was.

We allowed developers and speculators to wreck the country and we still have developers and speculators wrecking the fucking country, upping rent, outrageously upping fucking rent.
It is outrageous. I would fucking jail them if I could, bring in legislation to do it, the way they are treating human beings, asking exorbitant prices.

The new minister of state had a visitor to his new office this week – a girl on rent supplement who gets a maximum of €475 per month. The cheapest one bed apartment she can find is €592.

The government will say if we put that [rent supplement] up, landlords will put the properties up. Well, stop them. Bring in legislation to stop them.

It will be interesting to see how we deal with it. But immediately, I would get a view from the Attorney General, from the Supreme Court, the best barristers, can we bring in legislation to stop landlords right across the country for another five years.

The Waterford man and father of three has been in politics for over 15 years and is well used to being in opposition.

15/2/1992. Workers Party Special Ard Fheis Workers Party Special Ard Fheis. L to R. Cathal Goulding, Des O'Hagan, Sean Garland and John Halligan at the Special Ard Fheis in Dun Laoghaire, 1992.

He was elected to Waterford City Council in 1999 as a member of the Workers’ Party, but resigned in 2008. He ran as an independent the following year and topped the poll. He was elected as a TD in 2011 and joined the Independent Alliance in 2015.

Through a strange series of happenings this year, Ireland found itself with a minority-led Fine Gael government. With Fianna Fáil refusing to play ball, Fine Gael had to woo the other side, and a number of independents signed up – including the Independent Alliance TDs.

Becoming a minister for State

So, is being in government what Halligan expected it to be?

I don’t know what I expected it to be. I was never in the position before as a minister for state. I have never been part of government, I never thought I’d be part of a government. Not sure I wanted to be part of a government, but as it transpired, that is what happened in the negotiations.

Halligan says the electorate should reserve their criticism for the moment, saying it got to the stage where Ireland was probably going back to the polls.

What essentially we would have been saying to the country is, we don’t like how you voted, would you vote again.

We decided to give it a go and see what we can do and that’s what we done. Will it work, I don’t know.

14/4/2016. Dail Scenes Sam Boal Sam Boal

Earlier this week, his Independent Alliance colleague Super Junior Minister Finian McGrath said government is “not an easy place for me to be”, pointing to tensions in Cabinet between Fine Gael and independent ministers. Halligan says he agrees with McGrath.

It’s not an easy job. You are dealing with a different ideology. It requires trust and sensibility, if you like, and recognition that we have to be able to talk to one another without feeling that one is superior than the other.

If that doesn’t work, then it won’t last. Anybody that knows me, I just say things straight. If trust breaks down — we have to make sure it doesn’t break down — but if it does break down, then that’s it.

Fine Gael needed the independents

Halligan said his Cabinet partners in Fine Gael need to realise that they needed the independents to form a government.

They needed to recognise, whether they did or not initially, they did need us. I was easy about it, if I wasn’t going into government, I wasn’t going into government. It didn’t bother me. Did I expect to be a minister? No, I didn’t.

The Waterford TD said there has to be a change in politics with mutual respect across the board, regardless of party size or legacy.

If they treat us with disrespect and mistrust what’s going to happen is next time around, independents are going to be like, ‘I’m not going in with them, I’m not even going to talk to them, look at what they done to the last crowd.’

During the negotiating talks, Halligan was painted as promoting ‘parish pump politics’ and pushing to get his local issues sorted, namely the Waterford Regional Hospital cardiac unit.

Parish-pump politics

Whether it was the baking sun or the question, Halligan looked uncomfortable and frustrated when asked if that was the case. It’s a question that has been put to him many times over the course of the election. Were his local problems red line issues that held up the show from getting on the road?

“I have issues myself, with the hospital, Finian had issues with mental health [services], Shane had issues too.”

The issue in Waterford is not a Waterford issue. It is a south-east issue affecting 560,000 people where you had a hospital designated a primary intervention cardiovascular service hospital but not having the same service as designated to other hospitals.

How could something be a local issue where 560,00 people on Friday evening in any of those areas – Wexford, Waterford, Kilkenny, Dungarvan, Lismore, Cappoquin, Tramore – that there was no service available? Sure that was intolerable and it was the huge big election issue.

What am I to do as a politician? This was an issue, the electorate made this an issue, they made it an issue in the election before that, any of the TDs that lost their jobs will tell you ‘John, I got murdered on the hospital’. What was I supposed to do? Say ‘Sure I’m not going to bring that into the negotiations’ – but sure that would be silly stuff. So I did.

So, what was the reception in the room when he brought up the hospital?

Well, the reception wasn’t great, they felt as though we should just go into government and see what will happen and we said no, we’re not going to do that.

You need to show us that you mean business. I felt it was being dealt with and it is being dealt with at present.

25/1/2012. Anti Banks Protests TD's Thomas Pringle, John Halligan, Luke Ming Flanagan and Richard Botd Barrett pictured at a protest organised by the Campaign Against Household and Water Taxes outside the ex headquarters of the now defunct Anglo Irish Bank IN 2012. Laura Hutton / Photocall Ireland Laura Hutton / Photocall Ireland / Photocall Ireland

Halligan says he’s not about local issues, saying he is on the Dáil record as bringing up controversial matters like the 8th Amendment, rape, the right to die, poverty and Syria.

 I’d say if I had spoke on local issues it would have been only a few times.

The minister of state says the independents achieved a lot, though the talks were not easy.

“There was heated debate, terrible heated debate with the Alliance and Fine Gael, there is no question about that, on issues we thought were relevant to the country.”

Our charter for for government, the charter on judges, the appointment on state boards, the whip system – we insisted that be part of government. We probably don’t get the credit that we should get in initiating a new system in the Dáil where the whip has been removed.

For us it is votes of confidence, it is the budget , it is the programme for government. I have a bill coming to the Dáil on dignity in death, there won’t be a whip on that, so chances are I will get votes that I wouldn’t have gotten before.

19/5/2016. New Junior Ministers Sam Boal Sam Boal

Becoming a minister was also not a sticking point during the talks, he said.

People seem to think they were an integral part of the negotiations, they weren’t that came in the last hour or two.

We wanted parity. If you are going to say we are going to be part of the government, you better make us part of the government, with ministers and ministers of state, but that wasn’t  a prerequisite of going into government.

‘I am pro-choice’

Halligan says he doesn’t have to vote with government on all issues. One issue close to his heart and one he has spoken about passionately in the Dáil is abortion.

He said he made it clear during talks with Fine Gael that he is pro-choice.

It didn’t go down great, but let’s see what happens over the next few months – will they bring this commission and what it’s made of.

I will vote any way I want to vote on that too. I will be voting to repeal the Eighth Amendment. It is not in programme of government from what I can see. And out that will go. I am not obliged to vote with the government on that, so that doesn’t impact on my principle on that.

Forcing women with fatal foetal abnormalities, and women who have been raped and traumatised go through nine months of pregnancy is “outrageous”, said Halligan. “It is inhuman and I haven’t changed one iota on that.”

Since entering government, the independents have already succeeded in getting a few controversies under their belt. The Minister for State for Health Finian McGrath put his foot in it defending smokers’ rights, while Halligan got heat for his views on Irish Water.

12/6/2012. Dail Scenes Laura Hutton / Photocall Ireland Laura Hutton / Photocall Ireland / Photocall Ireland

Halligan said he was astounded by the controversy about him not paying his water charges and not supporting the Sinn Féin motion to abolish Irish Water.

Why he voted with government on Irish Water

He said he signed a programme of government that promised a motion would be brought to the Dáil to abolish the charges.

“The charges will  be gone for nine months [and] a commission will be set up to investigate Irish Water, look into it and come back to the Dáil. That is then outside the programme of government and I will vote to abolish Irish Water – minister or no minister – and that is what I will do and that is what will be done with legislation.”

Controversy also surrounded the Waterford TD when he said he had not paid his water charges, but later clarified that he is not liable to pay and is not registered.

“I haven’t paid. I have been upfront about it. I am not registered on the property. I made it quite clear, I wouldn’t pay, and I am not going to pay until it is all boxed off.”

Some criticised Halligan for his stance, but what would he say to customers now. Should they continue to pay their water charges?

“I have never advocated for what people should do, even when I was addressing marches… I personally wouldn’t pay, because I think Irish water is a completely failed entity and it has to be scrapped, put out of existence and start afresh.”

It’s 2.30pm, the sun is blazing, we’re about to get heat stroke and you can hear the Dáil bell ringing in the background. Time’s up and the newly appointed minister of state has to run.

Just before he hurries away, I manage to ask him if he still has time to write his poetry in his new role. In 2013, Halligan published a book of poetry based on his experiences in politics.

He says there is a volume two on the way. I suggest a working title for the book: The Talks.

“That’s possible, I have some nice ones on that, I can tell you.”

Read: Coveney to miss 100-day housing plan deadline as ‘people are not focused on work in August’>

Read: Healy-Rae talks up candidate’s mass-going record as TDs attempt to elect deputy chairman>

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182 Comments
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    Mute Karl Pinker
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    Mar 19th 2021, 5:38 PM

    They should of started jabbing again at 4.30 yesterday afternoon

    534
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    Mute Joe Johnson
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    Mar 19th 2021, 5:56 PM

    @Karl Pinker: Hate to see the HSE robbing a bank. The car would be in the garage getting a service done instead outside the bank with the engine running.

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    Mute family guy
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    Mar 19th 2021, 6:00 PM

    @Joe Johnson: same with every public service. Not answerable to the bottom line like us running a proper business.

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    Mute Shane Brophy
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    Mar 19th 2021, 7:04 PM

    @Karl Pinker: They couldn’t. Each person now has to be given updated AZ vaccine wording by vaccinators to avoid litigation.
    If we weren’t such a litigious country, we could have started yesterday at 4.30.

    48
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    Mute Uncle Montys oaf
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    Mar 19th 2021, 5:40 PM

    Germany and France to resume vaccinations today, ireland want to wait a few more days. Says it all.

    459
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    Mute Shay Redmond.
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    Mar 19th 2021, 5:41 PM

    @Uncle Montys oaf: but it’s the weekend.. and the sun’s out.. be grand.

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    Mute Ian Forbes
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    Mar 19th 2021, 6:00 PM

    @Shay Redmond.: they did 300 plus vaccines last Sunday….. its a day of rest in this country.

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    Mute Quia Timet
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    Mar 19th 2021, 6:20 PM

    @Ian Forbes: If vital work has to be done, it does not matter what day or time of the day it is.

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    Mute Ian Forbes
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    Mar 19th 2021, 6:23 PM

    @Quia Timet: the numbers for Saturday, Sunday and Monday are low compared to rest of week !

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    Mute Uncle Montys oaf
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    Mar 19th 2021, 6:25 PM

    @Quia Timet: I think you missed his sarcasm

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    Mute Michael O'Connor
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    Mar 19th 2021, 9:01 PM

    @Ian Forbes: they did 660,000 today in the UK

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    Mute Marky Mark
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    Mar 20th 2021, 12:01 AM

    @Ian Forbes: folks a colleague of mine in the UK his wife got qualified to give the AZ jabs and she did 76 on her first 12 hr shift last Sunday. There we 30 vaccinators in her sports hall in the middle of nowhere (relatively speaking) and cars came in and out in an orderly fashion and they did 3,000 on a Sunday !
    Borris ffed up the initial handling but people over there think he is doing a good job, where our best boys in Europe locked up the country and messed up the vaccine rollout and will be remembered for it. Game changer my hole !

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    Mute Gerard
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    Mar 19th 2021, 5:38 PM

    On the basis of the EMA’s approval?

    It was never “unapproved” — the last week, even while the EMA was reviewing the reports, the EMA’s position was unambiguously to keep vaccinating people.

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    Mute john s
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    Mar 19th 2021, 9:02 PM

    @Gerard: yep nphet and niac truly are our best and brightest.

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    Mute Martin Galvin
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    Mar 19th 2021, 10:46 PM

    @john s: As the comments are blocked on the previous article, due to legal reasons (my bruised plums), I’m commenting on here & will copy & paste in case it’s deleted. The Article is trial by media, holds no evidence apart from citing old gatherings where Professor Cahill was in attendance, and is one of the most one-sided things I have ever read. The article should be binned, and a synopsis posted as ‘Gards, with backing of Authorities, put squeeze on outspoken anti-lockdown campaigner’
    There’s a reason why journalists were depicted as pigs on Spitting Image in the 80’s ….

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    Mute Martin Galvin
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    Mar 19th 2021, 11:19 PM

    @Martin Galvin: The story has been taken down …. Job done. Cheers.

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    Mute Martin Galvin
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    Mar 19th 2021, 11:21 PM

    @Martin Galvin: Take it down, please …. Shifting it down a few notches doesn’t validate it ….

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    Mute Franny Ando
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    Mar 20th 2021, 1:19 PM

    @Martin Galvin: Seen it this morning too.

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    Mute Tertullian
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    Mar 19th 2021, 5:55 PM

    The European Medicines Agency approved the continued use of the vaccine yesterday. Approval by our NIAC was therefore only a formality but it should have come within minutes of the EMA decision yesterday, not late this afternoon. One can only conclude that the delay was down to grandstanding by the NIAC and it is inexcusable. Yet another sorry chapter in our omnishambles of a vaccination rollout.

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    Mute Adrian O'Donnell
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    Mar 19th 2021, 5:36 PM

    Took long enough

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    Mute Paul Furey
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    Mar 19th 2021, 7:47 PM

    @Adrian O’Donnell: were lucky you’re not in charge

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    Mute Kajus Riedikis
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    Mar 19th 2021, 8:37 PM

    @Adrian O’Donnell: damage is done already

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    Mute Michael Fleming
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    Mar 19th 2021, 5:39 PM

    So a load of horse s—t waiting around afraidbto make a decision itvwas approved yesterday just get on with it for God sake pull your finger out your A—e and just do it

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    Mute Thomas O' Donnell
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    Mar 19th 2021, 8:29 PM

    @Michael Fleming: It was never unapproved. EMA never suspended their approval. Ireland and a few other countries unilaterally suspended the vaccine. Fear of litigation (even though the risk from suspending vaccines was probably greater, for the obvious reason and also because Covid can cause clots )

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    Mute Michael Fleming
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    Mar 19th 2021, 9:09 PM

    @Thomas O’ Donnell: I never said it was unapproved I was saying that it had been cleared 24 hrs ago so why do we hace to wait? Is it because the establishment want to give the nod to show us who is in charge . The vaccine role out has been nothing should of a shambles since the start and needs to be moved on as quickly as possible without any delays

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    Mute Eddie Michael
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    Mar 19th 2021, 6:09 PM

    It’s gonna take day to resume..??? Donnelly needs to go. Put the vaccination programme in the hands of the army, they know how to deal with logistics and crisis management…

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    Mute Oliver Walker
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    Mar 19th 2021, 5:57 PM

    Mood in the country seriously low at this point. I don’t blame Dr Ronan Glynn for the situation, what he communicated was all wrong though. I’m sure the majority of us would keep going if we the Government and NPHET had an endgame but the lack of goodwill and information is forcing people to give up.

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    Mute Michael Maher
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    Mar 19th 2021, 9:12 PM

    @Oliver Walker: I and many more blame Glynn

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    Mute Sheila McNulty
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    Mar 19th 2021, 10:30 PM

    @Oliver Walker: so he is wrong maybe u would do a better job

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    Mute C...
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    Mar 19th 2021, 5:57 PM

    7 blood clotting events, out of over 20 million doses administered…..how did we ever stop!?!?!

    Why haven’t we started immediately, tonight, tomorrow morning!!

    158
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    Mute John Murphy
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    Mar 19th 2021, 10:06 PM

    They found the cause & treatment for the issue according to WSJ
    - Pål André Holme, a professor of hematology and chief physician of the Oslo Hospital who headed an investigation into the Norwegian cases, said his team had identified an antibody created by the vaccine that was triggering the adverse reaction.
    - German researcher Andreas Greinacher, professor of transfusion medicine at the Greifswald University Clinic, said they had independently came to the same conclusion as Prof. Holme.
    - Patients who show symptoms four days after vaccination, such as headaches, dizziness or impaired vision, could be quickly diagnosed with a blood test.
    - Once diagnosed, the condition should be treated with blood thinning medication and immunoglobulin, which targets the antibody that causes the problem.

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    Mute Marcella O Toole
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    Mar 20th 2021, 7:04 AM

    @C…: if one of those 7 was your son, daughter, mother, would you say the same thing??

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    Mute Donal Coakley
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    Mar 19th 2021, 5:38 PM

    Next up.. NIAC give their tips for Cheltenham festival 2021

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    Mute Ken Faherty
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    Mar 19th 2021, 6:32 PM

    We should be vaccinating 24/7 to catch up.

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    Mute Mary O Dwyer
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    Mar 19th 2021, 6:09 PM

    Why Days before clinics set up when the halt was just a precautionary halt and always going to resume from the data coming in days ago . Why this next delay now . We really need to get speed of urgency before a last straw occurs to undo all the hard work by so many in waiting since January for a speedy roll out .

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    Mute Thomas Armstrong
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    Mar 19th 2021, 5:44 PM

    So a new information sheet must come with the AZ. So they are telling you on one side of the page it’s safe on the flip side its dangers, I personally think they need to have a new retrial with all age groups that’s if they can get people to do it. Massive damage has being done to this jab and once trust is lost its not easy to get it back.

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    Mute Diarmuid Hunt
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    Mar 19th 2021, 6:08 PM

    @Thomas Armstrong: Tell me one medicine that doesn’t come with an information sheet which details the side effects. The problem is there are people with no scientific understanding whatsoever that latch on to side effect or incidences that happen by coincidence with no causal link. If the pharmaceutical companies tell them everything then they make a big deal out of nothing, if they don’t tell them everything it’s a big conspiracy. It’s not public perception that’s the problem, it’s public education.

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    Mute Dave Hammond
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    Mar 19th 2021, 8:07 PM

    @Thomas Armstrong: hmm a retrial – you do realise that 20 millions doses already given to people is a far more significant than any retrial ….

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    Mute Anette Tourette
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    Mar 20th 2021, 8:37 AM

    @Diarmuid Hunt: Never read the leflet about side effects. Then you’ll suffer from all of them!!

    1
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    Mute Conor Glancy
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    Mar 19th 2021, 8:16 PM

    It’s a wonder there wasn’t a working group set up to make a decision on it in two weeks time

    37
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    Mute Michael O'Connor
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    Mar 19th 2021, 9:04 PM

    They did close to 660,000 vaccinations today in the UK apparently… in one day.

    38
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    Mute Leonard O'mahony
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    Mar 19th 2021, 9:11 PM

    @Michael O’Connor: that’s our total since the beginning of the rollout. An inept government . Unable to provide for it’s citizens. Are we surprised?

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    Mute Theportobello
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    Mar 19th 2021, 9:52 PM

    @Michael O’Connor: 1% U.K. adult population… in one day

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    Mute Paul Carew
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    Mar 19th 2021, 5:50 PM

    Yeah all 10 doses that they do have

    33
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    Mute David Smith
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    Mar 19th 2021, 5:37 PM

    At last

    29
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    Mute Jack Inman
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    Mar 19th 2021, 8:29 PM

    EU handling of the vaccine rollout is tantamount to digging yourself a hole but, rather climbing out, they just keep digging

    23
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    Mute Ciaran Duane Farrell
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    Mar 19th 2021, 7:35 PM

    Need to start vaccinating again ASAP

    22
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    Mute David Lynch
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    Mar 19th 2021, 8:54 PM

    Was is everything in this country so slow

    23
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    Mute O'Brien
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    Mar 19th 2021, 6:15 PM

    Pop an aspirin 10 minutes before. Sorted.

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    Mute plug
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    Mar 19th 2021, 7:17 PM

    i wont be taking anything prescribed by a government.

    17
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    Mute Theportobello
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    Mar 19th 2021, 8:31 PM

    @plug: I hope you like cold rainy islands

    11
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    Mute Happy
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    Mar 19th 2021, 9:54 PM

    @plug: Except for your welfare right?

    14
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    Mute Úna O Connor Barrett
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    Mar 19th 2021, 5:43 PM

    France only giving it to over 65

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    Mute Craig Barry
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    Mar 19th 2021, 7:03 PM

    @Úna O Connor Barrett: over 55’s

    15
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    Mute Alan Bury
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    Mar 19th 2021, 5:41 PM

    Wooohoooo Party Party Party!!!!!

    11
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    Mute Colm Phillips
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    Mar 19th 2021, 5:45 PM

    Woo!…god long will this take

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    Mute Shay Redmond.
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    Mar 19th 2021, 5:40 PM

    Thanks NIAC. You’re a star..

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    Mute trebloc01
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    Mar 19th 2021, 7:32 PM

    The t-shirt should get off his #ole now and stop making excuses

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    Mute Hugo Bugo
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    Mar 19th 2021, 6:29 PM

    Wow, didn’t expect that outcome

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    Mute Sure, Isn't it grand?
    Favourite Sure, Isn't it grand?
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    Mar 19th 2021, 10:16 PM

    Which Monday?

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    Mute Neil Carroll
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    Mar 19th 2021, 8:09 PM

    I work where the vaccine is stored and shipped out and I can’t even get it.

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    Mute Niallman
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    Mar 19th 2021, 9:11 PM

    I hope NPHET checked with all The Journal comments section and Twitter experts before they issued their recommendation.

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    Mute Anna Carr
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    Mar 19th 2021, 9:18 PM

    Woohoo!!!!! Let’s get ‘er done

    2
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