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PRESIDENT RECEP TAYYIP Erdogan has urged Turkish women to have at least three children, saying a woman’s life was “incomplete” if she failed to have offspring.
Erdogan’s comments were the latest in a series of controversial remarks aimed at encouraging women to help boost Turkey’s population, which had already risen exponentially in the last years.
The president emphasised he was a strong supporter of women having careers but emphasised that this should not be an “obstacle” to having children.
“Rejecting motherhood means giving up on humanity,” Erdogan said in a speech marking the opening of the new building of Turkey’s Women’s and Democracy Association (KADEM).
I would recommend having at least three children.
“The fact that a woman is attached to her professional life should not prevent her from being a mother,” he added, saying that Turkey had taken “important steps” to support working mothers.
Last week Erdogan said that family planning and contraception were not for Muslim families, prompting fury among women activists.
In his latest speech he went on to add: ”A woman who says ‘because I am working I will not be a mother’ is actually denying her femininity.”
A women who rejects motherhood, who refrains from being around the house, however successful her working life is, is deficient, is incomplete.
According to the statistics office, Turkey’s population rose to 78.741 million last year, a growth rate of around 1.3%. The population in 2000 was less than 68 million.
But Erdogan indicated he wanted more, saying Turkey is a country “with great goals” and to achieve them “every member of the nation should be mobilised.”
“Strong families lead to strong nations,” he said.
Erdogan has two daughters and two sons with his wife Emine.
His younger daughter Sumeyye, who last month married defence industrialist Selcuk Bayraktar in a high-profile wedding, is the deputy chairman of KADEM.
Erdogan, a pious Muslim, has repeatedly annoyed feminists and women’s activists with his comments on sex and family planning, once describing birth control as “treason”.
The composition of Turkey’s new cabinet under Prime Minister Binali Yildirim announced last month also angered activists, with just one female minister, heading the family ministry, in the government.
But the ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) which Erdogan co-founded angrily rejects allegations of sexism and says it has done more than any other Turkish government to encourage women to work.
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“Turkey is a country with great goals”….hmmmmm let me think about that one
Like getting into the EU. It’s imperative that this does not come to pass.
I think every member state has a veto on any new state joining. Not that I think enda has the balls.
Enda Kenny is all for Turks joining the EU. What an idiot he is.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/mcaleese-backs-turkey-s-eu-bid-1.855099 I wonder if McAleese still holds this view.
One of my greatest fears is allowing Turkey in the EU. I wouldn’t go to Turkey if God almighty came down here and asked me to Himself. Their attitude to women is unbelievable. Turkish ‘men’ think they own women, a wife is their property not their equal partner. As for not having children, I don’t have kids, mostly by choice, it doesn’t make me any less of a woman. It probably makes me a better Aunt, my nieces and nephews can have my undivided attention if or when they want it. That can only happen since I am free of dependants of my own.
Carm, your real issue is trying to find someone that’ll shag a vampire minion. Be honest.
Carm, you seem to know a lot about Turkey and you never have been there. I have to laugh at the comments about Turkish mens attitude to women. Its nonsense. My best friend married a Turkish man 10 years ago. She has her own business and he minds the kids. We have been on hols with them to their village and it was a wonderful experience. Do you ever question the side of the worlds attitude towards women? The “love her and leave her” type. The “shag her and forget to call her” type? Thats not so respectful either
It’s a typo. The o and the a got transposed.
Maybe they don’t actually “forget” to call Sinead.
I don’t think there is any chance of Turkey joining the EU in the near future. Kenny definitely won’t veto Turkey and neither will Cameron but the Eastern countries (Poland, Hungary) and possibly France will.
To be fair the likes of Orban in Hungary have balls. The same can’t be said for Enda.
In fact France would need to hold a referendum on Turkey joining the EU and has long been against Turkey joining the EU, at least officially.
Gerrmany would likely follow with its won referendum, but that hasn’t stopped the likes of political figures here and in the UK (at the behest of big business, no doubt) in calling for Turkey to be allowed into the EU.
That would provide a corridor from the Middle East and beyond of every jihadist nut job into Europe.
And where would those European political figures be then?
Not on the receiving end, that’s for sure.
I accept my view is biased. I was savagely raped by a Turk years ago. I am genuinely afraid of them getting into the EU. I knew a lady married to one also, let’s just say their relationship was far from equal unless a man having total control over a woman is okay with you Sinead. I asked him about it once he had no idea what I was talking about, that’s how husbands are he said.
I don’t think he’s saying you are less of a woman. It’s economics, more women are working and a career means they’ve less time to have more than be child
@ sinead hanley…..not for one minute to i believe that a turkish man is minding his children while his wife runs her business.!! in almost 20 years working with all sections of the community one of the main issues among our new irish is childcare…….everyday my colleagues and myself deal with the mindset of this president….. and the outcome for most women is not good …..
I think that’s precisely what she’s saying Jho? Do you think Sinead is wrong, that that type of behaviour is respectful? The get what you need then f*** off mentality.
He specifically says a woman is deficient if she doesn’t have children and you don’t think he’s saying they are less of a woman Maire? He calls them incomplete, the very definition of “less than”!
Carm. No wonder you don’t like Turkish men. What a traumatic thing to happen to you. My experience of Turkish people is all positive. I am afraid there are savages in every culture. And there is a lot of inequality in many Irish households. How many surveys are done every year that show that women do the vast majority of the housework/childminding even though both husband and wife work full time.
Ann. Why would I lie about that? Everyone is pointing the finger at Turkey saying they are backward. There is nowhere more backward than Ireland regarding support for women who want or need to work. Childcare is extortionate. Most of the household work and childcare responsibilities is left to the mother who runs herself ragged.
Demise.. I could write a book about mens disrespect towards women. It makes me sick how the men on this side of the world judge other cultures when most guys here just want to “get the leg over” as many women as possible.
Yes Sinead, and there is an inherently misogynistic streak that runs through even the journals comment section at times. Although thankfully there are decent men who seem to be all for equality of the sexes and don’t go on the defensive at every article reporting abuse or rape of women, there are others who do. Even Jho’s comment in response to you, there is something nasty about it, playing the (wo)man and not the ball. Consider posters emma q and emily davison, clearly men who use a female name in an attempt to add legitimacy to their anti-female comments.
Demise.. I totally agree.. If I ever bring up how women who are dating get treated then I get the ould dig in the comments that I am “bitter” or “no wonder he dumped you”.. I am married now so got my happy ever after so I have no reason to be bitter.. It makes me furious to see some wonderful, intelligent and beautiful friends of mine who get treated so badly by boyfriends who have a phobia about commitment. Let me also say that I have friends too who are single and very happy. Not all women want kids but society sometimes makes them feel incomplete if they don’t have them. Just ask any stressed out working mother how complete she feels!!!
It maybe incomplete Mr. Turkey but at least she has a life
So you know all this and have never being there is that right.
This is the reason why Turkey should not be allowed to join European union.Not until they change their attitudes towards women, which unfortunately will never happen.Erdogan is stuck in the dark ages.
That’s what happens when you select a religious zealot from a party of political zealots to run your country.
To be fair he presented himself as secular and normal up until he was elected. Hence the huge amount of protests and unrest in recent years. Unfortunately he’s probably worked very hard to make sure he (or someone from his party) stays in power in the long run. He has probably also scuppered their chances of getting into the EU.
Hopefully Gareth Murphy ,,,, because if hat I’ve seen is anything to go by ,,, WE ARE IN FOR ONE VERY RUDE AWAKENING
Erdogan has been on a mission to make Turkey a more extreme religious state.Mustafa Ataturk set up a more liberal secular state from the remains of the old Ottoman Empire with the Army as a bulwark against taking the country back to a more extreme religious state.This worked for the Turks for nearly a hundred years.I worked there occasionally and it was seemed much more western leaning than drifting T’words the east.In a short space of time Erdogan has reversed this bit by bit.He cleared out the senior military personnel replacing them with his own and now at the second or third attempt has changed important parts of the constitution .Liberals including the press have been muzzled and Women’s rights have gone into reverse.I fear for Turkey and agree that they should be let nowhere near EU entry.We have a country on our doorstep that is not European in terms of culture,values,defiantly not democratic.I don’t trust our politicians to take. Hard line with Turkey,just look at the deal we struck with them on immigration ,they ran rings around us and of course they play the NATO card when it suits.
Don’t know about that. What I do know is my life wouldn’t be complete without women. Mum, sister, wife friends I thank you.
Me thinks Erdogan wants to breed an army……Putin has him scared.
I wouldn’t be as tactless as he was but I think he has a point. I believe careers are taking over to the detriment of family life.
Packed lunches and latch key kids.
That’s what happens when the economy becomes the most important goal of a society. Right now it’s anything but ‘economising’ when you have people falling ill from bad nutrition and overwork. It’s a very expensive lifestyle this 9-5 grind, both monetary and in terms of ones time and life opportunity.
So a woman is deficient Tom if she chooses her career instead of having children? Which implies a woman’s place is in the home. What about fathers Tom they are just as capable of caring for children as shown by the men who choose to be stay at home dads for whatever reason.
its up to the woman , but there do seem to be a number of women who hit their mid 30′s and realise time is almost up and they are not in a relationship because they for whatever reason didnt take advantage of opportunities earlier. so they kind of will have to deal with that unhappiness and regrets if they actually wanted the “picket fence” and kids
True enough Dave I know a few women in that situation at the moment and some of them do find it stressful and upsetting as the odds of them having children reduce over time. Although some ambitious young women I believe are freezing their eggs for use at a later date to get around that issue. The benefits of scientific advancements.
As a general point Daniel R, I have to agree with that. All that stuff and in the end, for what? Having children is about having a future. But you have less disposable income in the present.
@Demise , it might help a few at the upper (it is expensive) end but what are we going to see,the rise of 40 something first time single mothers by choice? that is kind of tragic.
in countries like the US the message seemed to be for women focus on career, and play the field in their 20′s and then find some simp when in their 30′s to have babies with. however this is high risk for women because the decent guys will be snapped up, a high earning woman in her 30′s has a tiny pool of men to choose from who most likely wont even rate her because she is past her prime. So you end up with this cohort of woman that are left scratching their heads wondering where it all went wrong because they didnt understand how the”marketplace” worked.
also look at Ireland there are now more women going to college than men, if this has a bearing on incomes it will mean that women will be at a disadvantage from day one as from their perspective more and more women wont have anyone to date and will lead to more and more hookup culture which is incompatible with finding someone for the long term
Demise
Chill out.
You are waiting to be offended.
Read my post. I only mentioned about careers taking over from families.
I never said a man can’t be the stay at home one.
However, whether we like it or not, the woman is the one with the greater parenting input, breastfeeding etc.
Don’t shoot the messenger.
I didn’t engineer the male and female bodies.
Yep I’m sure it is expensive alright and not without it’s problems. I agree it’s not the best case scenario. And yes from my experience a lady who is close to me is in her early 30′s and already she said she notices that dating has become much more difficult than it was in her 20′s with most men she dates not looking for commitment and either making that clear very early on or just going on a couple of dates and calling it a day after that.The obvious difference that men can have kids at any age so don’t feel the same pressure as women regarding it, she feels that it must be written on her forehead or something as not much else has changed between now and her 20′s apart from her age and her wanting to have children!
Tom he was specifically talking about women and you said he has a point. Breastfeeding is quite short-term and not a necessity so I wouldn’t see that as meaning the woman has more parental input except perhaps in the first year of life. Apologies if I misunderstood your meaning but judging from the thumbs so did many others.
Roman Catholic fundamentalists have a lot in common with Muslim fundamentalists.
Authoritarian, absolutist, paternalistic, male dominated and prescriptive religions share a lot in common with each other.
Religious fundamentalists demand that their religious principles are given the force of law. For example, the primary driver of the 8th Amendment and of its continuing retention is Roman Catholic values supported by the institution of the Roman Catholic Church.
Those who have an absolute opposition to SSM and abortion have much in common with their Islamic counterparts. Born again Christian fundamentalists likewise.
The real debate is between those who advocate a secular republic, on the one side, and those who demand that law, politics, justice, the practice of medicine and social mores much reflect and be subservient to religious precepts.
Roman Catholic fundamentalists have a lot in common with Muslim fundamentalists.
Authoritarian, absolutist, paternalistic, male dominated and prescriptive religions share a lot in common with each other.
Religious fundamentalists demand that their religious principles are given the force of law. For example, the primary driver of the 8th Amendment and of its continuing retention is Roman Catholic values supported by the institution of the Roman Catholic Church.
Those who have an absolute opposition to SSM and abortion have much in common with their Islamic counterparts. Born again Christian fundamentalists likewise.
The real debate is between those who advocate a secular republic, on the one side, and those who demand that law, politics, justice, the practice of medicine and social mores must reflect and be subservient to religious precepts.
((Really?))…another idiot out there!
Turkish President is a b@st@rd!
A woman’s life is incomplete only if, how, and when she herself thinks it…… Motherhood is not the barometer
This planet (or at least life as we know it) is doomed. There should be a licensing system for any couple who decide to try for more than 2 children and penalties for those that do (one child for single parents).
A misogynistic Muslim pr@#k.
..and some people want these loons in the EU ??
The falling birthrate in Western countries would support this viewpoint. Thankfully we have plenty of willing migrants to come here and substitute for the off-spring not being borne from our own gene pool.
its ok if they are European , however if we end up with 10% or 20% Muslim , this country will go to pot.
And the very women who are shocked by his comments are the same ones that stand with the posters welcoming muslim migrants to Ireland.
Turkeys voting for Christmas, God bless them.
Tom Burke and others who support the values of Erdogan are the most active posters in opposing the repeal of the 8th Amendment.
It is important to realise that religious fundamentalism can afflict not only Muslims but also Roman Catholics of an extreme conservative nature and born again Christians.
Fundamentalism is fundamentalism wherever and however expressed even if the fundamentalists are white Chiristains and White Catholics.
Can anybody say anything now?
Everybody is waiting to be offended.
Never a truer word spoken
Looking forward to Turkey Joining the EU !
What’s the problem?
Most women will tell you that anyway.
Finding a man and having kids ………….and they all lived happily ever after.
The difference between a woman herself feeling incomplete if she wants children and doesn’t end up having any, and this guy branding all women who don’t have children as deficient and incomplete Cal. That’s the problem.
Hope he gets what coming to him.
Hitler had the same idea.
Any Turkish people including family and friends I have spoken to over the past few years are sick of being tarred with the same brush as Erdogan. The majority of Turkish people hate Erdogan and his policies as they do not wish to see Turkey dragged back to the dark ages (where he permanently resides). You only have to look at all the fb pages of Turkish people and see the never ending Erdogan caricatures that they share showing the revulsion they feel towards him and his party. The same revulsion for him and his policies are all over their twitter accounts as well.
Turkish people are well aware that his policies/funding along with American and Russian interference are responsible for the growth of Isis. Their relatives and friends and visitors to their country are being blown up by terrorists which is another reason whey they hate him.
The reason so many people voted for him and his party is (which is well known in Turkey by the ordinary person on the street ) is because as they say “he is a clever corrupt b When it comes to election time he has his campaign people visit all the villages (all over Turkey) where there are poor people/elderly people who have nothing ….. Not only are they promised the moon and stars (as is normal when parties are looking for votes) but each person is given something that they need for example it could be a washing machine or cooker or another electrical item that they need.
Free buses are organised to pick the people up from the village, take them to the polling stations and back home again. Also everybody getting on the bus gets money for expenses. No need for brown envelopes! Of course if you need something badly and somebody is willing to give you the same for free and there is a promise of something else if the party gets into power, why would you cut off your nose to spite your face. Who would blame them as most of them would be very poor and the canvasers use this to their advantage.
Also If you talk to Turkish people in general the majority of them do not wish Turkey to join the EU….. and have no intention or interest in travelling or living in Ireland/Europe. Why would they want to join the EU when they see the mayhem of Europe not to mention the Muppets who are running this country
Marie if they hate him why does he keep winning elections?
Turkey is a test case for whether Islam and democracy are compatible.
@ Rosa …..forgot to also mention that his canvassers also target poor people in towns all over Turkey as well and offer them the same incentives as they do in the villages.
Also some of the big companies in Turkey provide funding for his party……….ie if the party gets into Government they will make sure that the “company” will get the business/contracts etc. This is rife in Turkey. Hence the reason he gets so many votes according to the Turkish people on the ground and the Media.
There are a lot of elderly people in the villages and towns all over Turkey who are possible not as well educated as their children/grandchildren and thus believe what the party members /canvassers tell them. Religious zealots are rife among party members and their supporters. Yet the same hypocrites do not practice what they preach which the educated people in Turkey are well aware of.
I guess the same way Irish people believed everything the CC told them and yet the CC didn’t practice what they preached as it turned out.
In fact a lot of Turkish people will tell you that they don’t trust Turkey/Turkish Government themselves…. never mind Europe not trusting Turkey.
Recently a Russian billionaire/business man was named as buying oil from Isis and selling it to the Syrians. There are 65 coalition members ……65 countries who if they really wanted rid of ISIS they could have wiped them out just like that….but sadly it seems Governments are more interested in Capitalism.
I have been married to a Turkish man for the last 26 years. We are certainly equal partners with neither of us thinking we are each others property. This is not just because we are living in Ireland now, it was the same when we lived in Turkey NO DIFFERENT. Having said this I do respect that there are others on the thread who have had bad experiences and therefore I can understand where they are coming from after all I have not walked in their shoes, therefore who am I to judge.
My husband would be the first to admit that “of course there are some Turkish men who do not see wives/females as their equal which is totally unacceptable”. I guess the same could be said about men (NOT ALL) in every country all over the world including Ireland. Let’s us not forget Irish history, there was a time when women here were considered the property of their husbands and fathers and were married off for a dowry. Nor could a woman inherit family property and could be signed into a mental institution willy nilly by a father or brother or husband. The Victorian era was another example. Thankfully those days are long gone but sadly today women in this country are still being denied certain rights as we have seen time and time again. But that’s another days debate and not relevant to this thread.
For years I lived among Turkish people (including my inlaws and their extended families and friends). My Turkish sisters in law and mother in law were/are equal partners with their husbands who certainly don’t think their wives are their property. I have friends (Turkish and Irish….. living in Turkey or Ireland, married to Turkish men and who are most definitely treated and respected as equal to their husbands or partners. My nephews are grown up now and married with children and its good to see that they treat their partners as equal. As do their many friends towards their own wives.
In today’s Turkey there are just as many females going to college as males and like any other teenagers/young adults they enjoy the same social occasions and each have a mutual respect for equality among the sexes which hopefully will not change and will be passed on to future generations.
In the mid 90’s I lived in Denizli for a couple of years. Our apartment was just a short walk from the city centre in a residential area. At the time there was only three other foreigners and myself living in Denizli. The kindness and RESPECT that was shown to me by my Turkish neighbours including their husbands and sons was outstanding. They couldn’t do enough for me, whether it was carrying a buggy up 3 flights of stairs for me or carrying my shopping when they met me on the way back from the market struggling in 35/40 degree heat and lots of other kind deeds.
When I brought my daughter out for a walk in the buggy, people in the street often stopped me to ask how I was and to coo over the baby including shop keepers who would offer tea and shelter for us both from the hot sun. At first I guess people were curious because I was the only foreigner living in their neighbourhood but mainly because Turkish people are well known for their kindness and hospitality. During the hot summers a lot of people would leave the city and head to their village where the weather was cooler. Often myself and my daughter would be alone in the apartment building overnight, if my husband was in work. You could hear a pin drop on the stairs but I never felt afraid for my safety or my daughters.
Sinead I agree with you 100% that there is nowhere more backward place than Ireland regarding support for women who want to work and the trend seems to be that women do the majority of the housework/childminding even though both partners work. Also Sinead when I lived in Denizli some of my Turkish neighbours worked outside the home and their Turkish husbands looked after the children while they were out at work including my own husband who looked after our daughter when I was working. Of course you have no reason to lie despite what Joan thinks.. I know plenty of Turkish men who don’t have a problem staying at home and looking after kids while their wives work.
It really saddens me to see the amount of negative insulting comments on this thread about Turkish people….I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that 99% of Turkish people are Muslim…….I am not making any accusations I just wonder.
Thank you Marie. It’s not about them an us, it’s not about having children or not having children, it’s not about women versus careers, or men versus women. It’s just about the circle of life.
The policy to have children should be supported. It’s a better economic policy. We are having so few children in EU we’ll have to customers and people to look after in the elderly in the future
Surely providing someone to change your adult nappy in the care home is the worst reason to have a child?
That’s why our grandparents had so many was to ensure there was somebody to pay and look after the family unit. We are not one cell organisms Daisy. I know it sounds awful which it doesn’t mean to be, but there has to be a certain number of children born to maintain civilisation. I certainly don’t want to be working at 75!
Care homes are awful places….you’ll change your mind as you get older….
have your say