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DONALD TRUMP MAY be coming to Ireland this month, and some people are really not happy about it.
The AAA-PBP and Green Party have planned protests in Co Clare, with Deputy Richard Boyd-Barrett labelling the presumptive Republican presidential nominee a “dangerous, racist, sexist, warmonger.”
And although the trip was cast into some doubt earlier this week, with the Irish leg being provisionally taken off Trump’s British Isles itinerary, others want to go further than protests.
In December, two petitions were submitted to the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Oversight and Petitions demanding that Trump be banned from even setting foot in Ireland.
A similar petition on the Uplift.ie website has garnered more than 1,000 signatures.
Let’s assume those who want to keep him out of the country also believe it’s possible to keep him out of the country. So is it?
(Remember, if you see a claim you’re not sure about, email factcheck@thejournal.ie).
Claim: Donald Trump can be banned from entering Ireland
Verdict: TRUE
There are lots of reasons why a non-Irish national can be denied entry to Ireland. Not having the right visa, having past convictions for certain crimes, and so on.
Let’s assume Donald Trump has his paperwork in order. Could he still be kept out of the country, as some argue, on the basis of his rhetoric?
Is a ban legally possible?
The 2004 Immigration Act lists 13 grounds for a visitor to be denied entry into Ireland. You can read them here.
We know from his recent medical report that Trump doesn’t have syphilis or a “profound mental disturbance”, as mentioned in the act, and we can safely assume he doesn’t plan to take up work in Ireland.
So only two exclusion conditions are really relevant here.
Section 4.3 (f)(iii) states:
(3) Subject to section 2 (2), an immigration officer may, on behalf of the Minister, refuse to give a permission to a person referred to in subsection (2)if the officer is satisfied—(f) that the non-national is the subject of—(iii) a determination by the Minister that it is conducive to the public good that he or she remain outside the State.
Section 4.3 (j) also allows immigration officers to block someone from entering Ireland, if they decide:
that the non-national’s entry into, or presence in, the State could pose a threat to national security or be contrary to public policy.
So if Justice Minister Frances Fitzgerald decides it would be in the interest of the “public good” or “public policy” for Trump to be kept out, she is legally authorised to make an order to that effect.
And the Minister is not precluded by law from banning Trump. There are certain categories of individuals to which the ordinary rules in this respect, do not apply, such as foreign heads of state, office-holders and diplomats.
Trump is a private citizen, and so none of these exceptions apply to him.
Patricia Brazil, professor of law at Trinity College Dublin, told TheJournal.ie:
In my view, the Minister does not have an absolute discretion under section 4 as this term is not used in the section. However, I think the nature and extent of the discretion that the Minister does have under section 4 is a very broad one.
The courts have long recognised that the power to regulate migration is a particularly sensitive area and that the power to make these decisions rests with the Minister for Justice on behalf of the State.
A person denied entry to Ireland can initiate a judicial review in the High Court, but as Professor Brazil explains:
Provided the Minister has taken all relevant considerations into account in making her decision (and conversely, has excluded any irrelevant considerations), and provided her decision is not contrary to the Constitution or the [European Convention on Human Rights], then the courts would be unlikely to interfere with a decision to refuse a person permission to enter Ireland.
Are there plausible grounds to ban Trump?
The Department of Justice told us “There is naturally no exhaustive list of factors in determining what is ‘conducive to the public good/public policy’.”
However, it did mention some of the factors that can be taken into account, such as:
Criminal activity/convictions; terrorism related activity; immigration abuse; threats to public order; persons subject to UN travel bans…
And a look through the news archives gives us a sense of the type of high-profile individuals barred from Ireland over the years. For example:
The Republican nominee has never been charged with incitement to hatred, inciting a riot or inciting violence.
But he has been accused of it, with statements he has directed towards Latinos and Muslims, as well as protesters at his rallies.
The stated purpose of his would-be trip is to visit his golf course in Doonbeg, though, rather than to hold a rally.
However, regardless of whether Trump is likely to make statements that would incite violence or hatred of certain groups, the Minister could decide that his mere presence in Ireland would risk provoking public disorder, especially given the protests planned around his visit.
Is a ban likely?
None of those previously banned from Ireland were potentially seven months away from becoming the world’s most powerful person, in command of the economy of one of Ireland’s biggest trading partners and sources of investment.
And when Trump announced his visit earlier this month, a government spokesperson told the Irish Times:
Mr Trump, like every tourist, will be more than welcome to Ireland and we hope he has a pleasant stay.
This hardly indicates an inclination to keep him out of the country.
Irish law certainly authorises and gives the Minister for Justice wide discretion to bar a non-national, travelling in a private capacity, from entering the country.
So the claim – that Donald Trump can be banned from Ireland – is TRUE.
There are probably also plausible grounds for such a decision, especially if it was determined that his presence alone could provoke disorder. It would not be entirely arbitrary or without any evidential basis.
However, given the potential political and economic ramifications, previous statements made on behalf of the government, and the purportedly apolitical purpose of Trump’s visit, a ban is probably unlikely.
Send your FactCheck requests to factcheck@thejournal.ie
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Alan Shatter comes across as a very dislikeable man who gives the impression that he is above everyone else. I wonder how people could vote for him in the first place.
Troll alert !
Man u stoopid
because we vote corrupt individuals into power and then refuse to hold them to account, by waiting til april 2016 general elections “to teach this current crowd a lesson” is to show the next lot coming in that no matter how fcuked up they get we will give them 4 years no matter what.
christ on a flipping bike!!
Thanks for making me laugh dude!
Something stinks here. I understand fully the need for the gardai to record phone conversations.
- 999 calls absolutely needed to be recorded
- if a bomb threat was phoned to a garda station it makes sence this should be recorded. What would our reaction be if the gardai said we don’t have the information because we don’t use technology?
The nature of these calls is indiscriminate so indiscriminate recording is needed.
- A few months ago we lauded the fact that some phone calls in Anglo were recorded. Our regret was that not all were.
In this case I think there is a witch hunt against Shatter – and I am NOT a fan of his.
Bruce, yes record calls of persons informing confidentially on criminals, conversations between criminals and their lawyers, record phone calls from and identities of journalists, and do so without warning people that what they think is a confidential communication is being recorded.
Record whistleblowers reporting crimes and all of this will add to confidence in an Garda Siochana.
Ask yourself why a statutory Commission of Inquiry has been established on an emergency basis and be aware that very serious and even explosive revelations are imminent from the Sunday Times and the Daily Mail.
The recording of phone calls is not associated with Shatter. It is a practice in being for many years and it seems that it was an unregulated practice by An Garda Siochana.
This a matter with serious and wider ramifications, not least for the administration of justice.
This is not all about Shatter. This is not about one incumbent in office. This is truly serious.
Bruce, my problem with the whole situation is not that the calls were recorded, but that fact that they were recorded illegally.
The simple fact of the matter is that if both parties involved don’t know the call is being recorded, it is illegal to do so.
I think only “at least” one party has to know is the actual law.
Bruce.
The problem is that the recording of legally protected private calls is very very illegal.
There are 2800 recordings in existence as of now. Each one of them is a reason to have a case dismissed.
Only a sycophantic FG’er would say that these were not a scandal.
How many Garda Commissioners in the past knew about the recordings. Perhaps they were afraid to blow the whistle on it!
That would be a more interesting question, how many Commissioners knew, than how many Minister for Justices knew?
Junket John and Shatter knew apparently.
No evidence of John o’Donouhue knowing about this. It was an outrageous claim at the time and it is only brought up now in an attempt to spread the blame.
Pearse Doherty was at the same thrick yesterday trying to imply that Marie Geoghan Quinn was in the loop as well.
It is probable that the Guards did not tell these Ministers the full truth. Shatter is the first one to hear evidence that it was actually occurring.
Glad to see you have a Security briefing, Seanie. That’s an oxymoronic answer, the evidence is in the article. He was told about it. The response by the tax-payer funded jet-setter can only be described as, Callahanarian. Do you ever tire of defending malfeasance? You’d be a talent in the PR ring.
He heard a mad ramble from an angry opposition spokesperson but there was no reason to believe it or evidence to back it up.
It is probable that when John o’Donouhue or MGQ asked the Guards if this was going on that they got a flat denial. How were they to know that this was not the case.
Joe, that’s a very good question. How many Commissioners knew, and why didn’t they inform the Minister for Justice of the day when they found out?
Shatter told us last year that Commissioners have a legal obligation to inform the Minister of the day of matters that could affect public confidence in the Gardaí. Callinan has known about this since at least November last year, so why did it take him 4 months to pen a letter to the Department (not even the Minster). If he’s able to keep Shatter in the loop about TDs not getting penalty points, surely something as serious as this would warrant more attention.
The reason a lot of people were recorded, because they wanted to get the murderers and bank robbers I wonder who they were, come on the red thumbs let’s see you.
AlanShatter seems to know or be aware of F**k all really.
He comes across as a man with the memory span of a slow Goldfish….
Goldfish can actually remember stuff for months. :)
Hear no evil, see no evil, recognise no evil and do nothing.
We need an Independent Garda Authority with strong disciplinary authorities and complete separation between the Minister for Justice and the Garda Commissioner.
Have we learned no lessons? Are we incapable of learning any lessons?
It must be a hard time to be a regular garda
This is just a symptom of the rot within the Irish body politic. We need a root and branch approach with an overhaul of the political system.
True.
Once again, no accountability, no transparency and no integrity.
The only time an Irish politician admits to anything is in the face of overwhelming and irrefutable evidence. They probably all knew about it
It’s just one scandal after another. The govt need to engage an independent private contractor to review the govt, it’s people and practices, from the top down to get the ‘bad’ out before it is outed.
I absolutely agree that this is not about one Minister for Justice but is a systemic aberration .
Is there a possibility of a powerful cabal of senior Civil Servants in the Department of Justice who have established themselves as a power -block unanswerable to anybody because of the secretive nature of their work ?
It’s laughable to listen to Michael Martin expressing horror at what has been revealed when he was a senior Cabinet Minister for most of the period of alleged wrongdoing. Missing files and disappearing mobile phone records and Fianna Fáil ministers saw and heard nothing!
Mehole has a bad dose of selective amnesia alright and not just on this issue
If you can prove that one member of FF knew conclusively about this, then do do.
Otherwise shuush and take your musings elsewhere.
This is truly shocking …. That the agency charged with upholding the law of the land, and given wide ranging and very serious powers to do so, was flagrantly breaking the law. This has the potential for releasing many many possibly guilty people from prison. Heads need to roll for this and probably criminal actions brought and I font mean Shatter as I don’t believe he knew about this. He should resign for about half a dozen other reasons not least of which is the hypocrisy of slating the whistle blowers for “leaking” information while he was no slouch at leaking confidential information on Mick Wallace in a live TV interview to suit his own political agenda.
Well somebody approved it.haugheys fingerprints all over it in my guestimation
Michael Noonan- was the minister for justice at the time Benny. Nothing to do with haughey.
Is that established as a fact, that Noonan was in charge? It deffo smells of Haughey, who has form in these matters
Maura Geoghegan-Quinn says no comment? She either knew or she didn’t! I smells a rat
She doesn’t want to cloud the focus of the current investigation and that is quiet reasonable of her.
What dies that even mean seanie?
She either knew or she didn’t. Very easy to say no if she didn’t know, without affecting any enquiry. her ‘no comment’ is incriminatory and there can be only one reason for it in my opinion
How would “no” cloud the focus?
Jasus Seanie, your selective bias in favor of FF is nauseating at this stage.
Don’t you realise that if you were in some way constructively critical, you might have some shed of credibility.
It seems extraordinary that An Garda Siochana were recording calls for 30 years and no one knew about it? Who organised it in the force it would take more then one member of the force over that time period….
They did’nt know about it? Yeah sure they did’nt!
I do not believe the Minister’s for Justice did not know about the illegal garda bugging and it going on for Decades and been used in the courts. Absolute Rubbish.
It’s amazing that transcripts of calls from random people can end up in the High Court and “nobody knows how it happens”
Yeah if nobody knew about them how did they know where to look for them. Should be interesting later today when the issue is raised in an ongoing court case
Did Nora Owen really say “did someone turn on the recordings and forgot to turn them off” ? Is she for real?Michael Noonans ( “no”) is as believable as Alan shatters apology considering they started when he was minister for justice. Enda ask the people of Ireland have they trust in Alan shatter to do his job.
The question for me is why every call from the public to a garda station is not recorded. Voice recording systems are not cheap and would need maintenance. So purchasing would need to have approved and bills paid. Either it was a policy to record or a number of garda stations buying off their own bat. I bet its the same system in each station.
Callinin was pushed to keep the cabinet happy. Collateral. Whatever about Shatter I can’t see how this is a resigning matter for him. Though he has dug his own grave in other ways.
Do an Garda Siochana inform you that non emergency calls are being recorded and may be used in evidence?
How would they know its a non emergency call though? Just not 999?
Dedicated lines for 999 calls gerbreen….
Agree that Callinan was pushed, very sinister that he received 2 visits from Secretary General on Monday night. He was sacrificed by the Taoiseach and his ‘friend’ Shatter.
Callinan was rightly fired because he refused to retract and apologize for his ‘disgusting’ comments. If he had done that a week ago he would still be there.
Kenny should quiet clearly say that he told Callinan to apologize or quit.
That is what the public want to hear him say, need him to say.
Why?
Callinan was clearly fired, but for the sake of appearances, for his benefit, was allowed to say he retired. This is fair enough, imo, as he has many years of service.
The public don’t need to hear him say that at all. Only Martin and Niall Collins need to hear him say because that is the line of attack they’ve picked this week – constructive opposition my ar$e.
When is the Secretary General going to receive a “sinister visit”? It would appear to me that he, together with a large portion of his department, should be sacked and very soon.
I believe none of them.
I heard stories of young Gardai being locked in cupboards in interview rooms to listen to conversations, always thought it was bs, but maybe not
gathering evidence by recording calls seems like a cheap sloppy substitute for proper investigation and whoever was engaged in this knew that it was bound to come unstuck eventually
Hear, see, and say nothing
Just read in a seperate article that members of The McCarthy Dundon gang are looking to have their cases reviewed in light of this scandal…This is an unmitigated disaster..Theres going to be a tidal wave of reviews coming down the track
Cowboy force finds that cowboy investigations fall apart.
Acting professionally would make an awful difference to the force and their success rate.
Something stinks. Noonan’s like a wasp these past few days. Then you ask, when wouldn’t FG completely destroy their historical sparring partner FF with an immediate banking inquiry when they came to office? Then you conclude, Ireland’s a banana republic – at best!
Question has to be asked when exactly did it start and who’s watch was it on
?
Why do the jackeens elect so many cretins to government?
Because most of the cretins, one notable opposition leader, are not from Dublin, the Jackeens need to look for more candidates from their own patch.
Every part of Ireland has a history of electing duds. Dublin or the rest have no difference in that.
In fairness Justice is not in charge of mass and countrywide bugging, you know just about everybody that GIS takes an interest in and that’s not just journalists, they can ask for it to be done but the whole thing is supervised by DECNR
The Justice minister who oversaw the bugging policy back in the 80′s will probably say that it was for specific purposes in a limited time frame BUT over a 30-year period seems bizarre. I agree with previous posts asking the question as to why the Garda commissioner didn’t notify the MoJ about such operations. Is it not strange that all Ministers since didn’t know possibly with exception Maire G Quinn……????? They’re all hiding behind something.
Liars, all of them
have your say