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Children found with lice and ringworm in a house with no food

The details of this case were released in the latest Child Care Law Reporting Project.

CARE ORDERS WERE given for four children who lived in neglect, a new report into Ireland’s children’s courts shows.

The four children were from a Roma family which had a history of transience. The court heard that there were allegations of domestic violence, neglect, poor school attendance and criminality.

After the children came to the attention of social workers, a visit to the house discovered that the home was “uninhabitable” with no food or baby formula.

The children had dental problems, ringworm and lice when they were assessed by social workers.

An emergency care order was first granted for seven children in the family. The report details the difficulties the children experienced while dealing with being in care and negotiating their relationship with their mother.

There were also allegations of the mother encouraging the children to steal. Evidence was given in court of a lack of school attendance.

The mother said that her partner had a tendency towards violence and she returned to him on occasions as he had promised he would change.

Her counsel stressed that the family were Roma and so moving around was part of their culture. The mother said she had no life without her children, and that her “heart was broken”.

In delivering judgment, the judge stated that there “can be no doubt that the mother loves her children and that they love her.”

The judge was satisfied that the mother always had the children with her and endeavoured to protect them.

Care orders for four children were granted, and parental access was left at the discretion of the Child and Family Agency. The full report can be read here.

Care orders for five children after allegations of neglect

Another case detailed how care orders were granted for the five youngest children in a very large family.

The family, who were Travellers, lived on a halting site. There were serious allegations of neglect and lack of cooperation on behalf of the parents.

One of the children made an allegation of sexual abuse, which was investigated.

Both parents were found by a psychologist from a specialist family therapy and support centre to have limited understanding of the children’s needs.

The father’s cognitive assessment placed him at the 0.3 percentile, meaning 99.7% of the population scored better in cognitive ability.

Both parents had limited intellectual functioning and limited ability to understand language

The children were not going to school, and all of them had learning disabilities. Most of them had speech and language difficulties.

The judge asked the psychologist:

If the children were from a different background, would you recommend they be taken into care?

The psychologist responded: “Yes, we recommend children from all backgrounds be taken into care. In relation to these children, there is no guarantee their needs will be met in care. Hopefully [they will].”

The withdrawal of cooperation of the parents led to the application for care orders. The orders were granted, though the Child and Family Agency’s barrister said it was always the policy of the CFA to keep the children in their family, and that the agency had been involved with them since 2011.

The full report into this case can be read here.

These two cases are included in the latest volume of the Child Care Law Reporting Project, which contains 19 cases. It is the first to be published in the second phase of the project’s work.

The first three-year phase concluded in November 2015 with a final report collating data on over 1,200 cases attended by the project. Phase Two is expected to take two years.

The project’s director, Dr Carol Coulter, said:

This second phase combines continued reporting on child care cases with in-depth research into a number of very lengthy and complex cases, which have sometimes taken up dozens of court days spread over several months. We hope we can learn from these cases how to improve child care proceedings for children and their families.

Read: ‘I want my children to have the family I never had’>

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59 Comments
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    Mute Catherine Mc
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    Jun 20th 2016, 10:32 AM

    Absolutely sickening, pay child benefit for children attending school, that would soon soften the cough of some of these parents.

    309
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    Mute Marcus Garvey
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    Jun 20th 2016, 10:44 AM

    With severe learning difficulties? They don’t even know they have a cough. Taking the kids off them and finding help for everyone is the only option. Very sad but for many years people with mental illness and special educational needs were completely neglected, especially those from certain backgrounds and communities.

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    Mute Lilly Passet-Nash
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    Jun 20th 2016, 11:44 AM

    Totally agree. In a case like this it is the entire family, both parents and the children who need help. Where parents have both have severe learning difficulties and don’t realise that they are not taking care of their children properly then social workers need to be involved at all times to help out and get other agencies involved to teach the parents how to shop and budget and to call to the family on a weekly basis to check on them. It is always better to keep a family together. Very few children want to go into foster care and it is psychologically better to keep everyone together and just give them the help they need rather than ripping families apart.

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    Mute Larry L'Oiseau
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    Jun 20th 2016, 10:11 AM

    Deport them.

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    Mute Trish Ryan
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    Jun 20th 2016, 11:33 AM

    And how Larry would that help the kids have a better life? also where would you deport an IRISH traveller??

    44
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    Mute Marcus Garvey
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    Jun 20th 2016, 11:40 AM

    Reading the cases they are mainly parents with intellectual difficulties or drug and drink problems. The Journal picked out the two cases (Roma and traveller) that would get people riled up. Shame they’d use mistreated kids as click bait. Should have taken a broad spectrum instead of picking two.

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    Mute UndieGrundy
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    Jun 20th 2016, 11:50 AM

    A broad spectrum? Travellers make up 25% of the prison population, a massive % of DV stats, child school abstention stats, and have an 84% unemployment rate. If anything, they should be targeted more often by media.

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    Mute Marcus Garvey
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    Jun 20th 2016, 11:54 AM

    No family with intellectual difficulties should be targeted. The report should have been discussed in general, not picking out two cases.

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    Mute Marcus Garvey
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    Jun 20th 2016, 12:03 PM

    This is exactly what the Journal wanted. A discussion on 0.6 % of our population. Well I think it’s more important that we focus on inner city communities, neglected rural areas where there have been a prevalence of learning and intellectual difficulties. Social care, psychological services and SEN funding has been neglected for too long and in the end it will be children that suffer the most.

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    Mute Michael Lynch
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    Jun 20th 2016, 1:19 PM

    Next door to you, if you care so much.

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    Mute Stephanie Barry
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    Jun 21st 2016, 1:11 AM

    Well said Marcus Garvey!

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    Mute redser1977
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    Jun 20th 2016, 11:07 AM

    Sad to say but these kids are better off away from their parents, they clearly have no idea how to care for them. The parents have their own personal issues and must have their own intellectual difficulties too. The kids being in care would have a better quality of life.

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    Mute Peter Fechter
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    Jun 20th 2016, 11:29 AM

    Had a history of moving around…culture isnt always such a good thing…and how did both familys get to be so large before the HSE stepped in to rescue the kids? The Roma family were obviously moving around between their several houses but did no other travellers raise concerns about the very large dysfunctional family in their midst?

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    Mute Diarmaid Twomey
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    Jun 21st 2016, 4:17 AM

    Wait, but I thought child protection was a money making racket? Now children are being “rescued”?

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    Mute fitzer
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    Jun 20th 2016, 10:30 AM

    That’s the benefit from the EU It’s called multiculturalism welcomed by many in Ireland.

    81
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    Mute Pam E La
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    Jun 20th 2016, 10:53 AM

    Read up on the Roscommon case and the Irish Catholic organisations who helped them keep hold of their kids for far too long. abuse is abuse is abuse and no culture is free from it.

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    Mute Tordel Back
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    Jun 20th 2016, 12:34 PM

    Yeah, never any abuse and neglect in Ireland before the EU.

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    Mute Joe Burns
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    Jun 20th 2016, 3:19 PM

    @Pam, yes, read the 2 reports. Social workers were involved with the family for 11 YEARS and didn’t see the threshold to intervention being met. In the end it was the children who saved themselves.

    What should have been the principle learning from Baby P is that social workers are no good at determining which children are in need of protection. Social workers visited Baby Peters home 18 times and other “professionals” another 42 times, and nobody thought to investigate the nutcase living upstairs with 2 rottweilers in his bedroom, who had previously been investigated for attacking another toddler. Social workers wouldn’t recognise abuse or neglect if they sat in the living room and watched it happen.

    Only Police are qualified to do investigation, in most countries social workers have no roll in investigating the CRIME of child abuse and neglect, that’s why they don’t have horror stories like Roscommon or Baby P.

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    Mute Adam Smythe
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    Jun 20th 2016, 10:07 AM

    Very disturbing cases.
    Poverty is the common factor.
    The Roma mother should be given the financial support to keep her children as she is blameless and obviously loves her children and did her best to protect them.
    I genuinely feel sorry for her.

    47
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    Mute James Maloney
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    Jun 20th 2016, 10:21 AM

    Yes, very disturbing cases. The judge or journalist has made no mention that poverty was factor. However, if it is, the question has to be asked… what are these families doing with the Social Welfare support they receive… what are they spending their money on? Many live a good life on Social Welfare

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    Mute Dave Murray
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    Jun 20th 2016, 10:31 AM

    And all the extra €€€€ they make from begging amongst others things…

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    Mute Sinead Dolan
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    Jun 20th 2016, 10:34 AM

    Agreed, I was raised with an unemployed father on social welfare and a mother who worked parttime cleaning and we never suffered such poverty or lack of basic hygiene/food. Most of my school friends lived in similar homes. It seems in these cases the parents just didn’t have the knowledge or ability to raise children,

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    Mute Joe Burns
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    Jun 20th 2016, 3:28 PM

    @ James, “Many live a good life on Social Welfare”, eh, do you or the idiots who liked your comment actually know anyone on welfare?

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    Mute Peter Fechter
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    Jun 20th 2016, 3:43 PM

    Adam…the”common factor” is the HSE as it colluded with dysfunctional parents in damaging their children irreparably.

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    Mute Rebecca De Stanleigh
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    Jun 20th 2016, 5:50 PM

    Did you read the same article? Tho woman openly encourages her kids to steal. Not only should the kids be taken off her she should be imprisoned/deported. Sick of the attitude on irrational ppl like u

    26
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    Mute Peter Fechter
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    Jun 21st 2016, 1:45 AM

    You talkin to me?

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    Mute Joe Burns
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    Jun 20th 2016, 2:55 PM

    Having followed the Family Law Reporting Project since its inception, I have to ask, why is it that they don’t report on the failures of social workers and Tusla?

    So the government set up a “Project” and used supposedly “Independent” people, who interestingly enough have never uttered a harsh word against the system, and I suppose its not surprising that they have not reported any cases that makes the system look bad? Interestingly enough these “Independent experts” have done reports on other horror stories and it always amazes me how they never seem to find fault with Tusla/HSE, for example;

    -The Roscommon House of Horrors where social workers were involved in a family for 11 YEARS and in the end, it was the children who saved themselves? Surely 1 social worker could have prevented the neglect and sexual abuse? Surely when they got a report from neighbours that the children were rummaging around in garbage bins for food, or were seen carrying alcohol home that the “Threshold to Intervention” would have been met?

    -Or the “Deaths in Care Scandal” that only took place because grieving family members of children who had died in “Care”, protested outside the Dail for a year before anyone paid attention? 260 died in “Care” in a decade, 500 went missing from “Care” in the same decade, but not one single social worker was held accountable by these “Independent Experts”?

    There are numerous other examples, even cases where the Family Law Project were present in court, but never reported these cases, presumably because judges had very harsh words for incompetent social workers and their corrupt lawyers and indeed Tusla. Of course the Public will never hear the horror stories of how the system harmed children they were supposed to be “protecting”, the victims are gagged, twice. They are gagged by judges who rubber-stamp decisions of recently graduated social workers who have no children and no life experience, and then they are gagged again by social workers that if they speak out that their relationship with their child will be terminated.

    No, you wont hear the story of where the social workers went to the wrong house on the wrong street and took the wrong child into “Care” for months and the mistake wasn’t discovered until a doctor declared in court that the child in the photograph was not the child they had examined. You wont hear the story of where Tusla used a Hired Gun Psychologist from Northern Ireland as a hired gun in court against parents, even though this liar had perjured himself in the same courtroom on previous occasions. You wont hear about the case where Tusla/HSE brought in an “Expert” who is not in fact and expert and not registered by any professional body, and who has never said a single positive word in favour of any parent, and yet was paid over €50,000 for a “Report”, which even the judge discounted.

    What’s interesting about this case is why aren’t these parents in jail? Is child abuse and neglect not a crime in Ireland? Any Garda member in Ireland has the power to remove any child from anywhere under S12 of the CCA. Why didn’t Tusla report this crime to Gardai? Why didn’t the DPP prosecute? Its amazing that in Ireland every year, Tusla have claimed that there are at least 1,500 cases of child abuse and neglect, so why do Gardai have so few investigations and DPP have so few prosecutions? Tusla claim that 550 cases of sexual abuse of children are “confirmed” every year and at least 550 children are removed from families on the basis of that “confirmation”, so why do the DPP only have about 40 prosecutions a year? Are Tusla letting off 500 paedophiles a year or are they “confirming” abuse that never occurred? How come the Family Law Reporting Project are not reporting this anomaly? the crime statistics don’t support the notion that Ireland has suddenly become a nation of child abusers, so what is Tusla’s justification for removing far more children than the UK on a per capita basis?

    I’m surprised that the Journal give any credence to the Family Law Reporting Project, they appear to be more of a PR exercise to bolster public confidence in a dysfunctional system. But then again if the Journal or anyone else told the truth about the system, the public would be crying for Ryan Report Two to be convened.

    46
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    Mute Peter Fechter
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    Jun 20th 2016, 3:40 PM

    Well said Joe.

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    Mute Alex Simms
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    Jun 20th 2016, 3:40 PM

    TLDNR

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    Mute Joe Burns
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    Jun 20th 2016, 5:03 PM

    @ Alex, guess you have never read the article itself and probably never visited a Library.

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    Mute Alex Simms
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    Jun 20th 2016, 9:15 PM

    <3

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    Mute Stephanie Barry
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    Jun 21st 2016, 1:17 AM

    One of the main problems with TUSLA is that they have so much authority and can hide failures and incompetence behind confidentiality, that it is nigh impossible to hold any TUSLA employee to account. All failures can be blamed on lack of resources, other departments, etc. Such a pity; I really believe that there are so many people in Ireland would love to foster kids but will not engage with TUSLA.

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    Mute Peter Fechter
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    Jun 21st 2016, 1:43 AM

    Stephanie….you are spot on…most people know they would be exploited by them….and then blamed when it goes wrong.

    5
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    Mute Diarmaid Twomey
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    Jun 21st 2016, 12:46 PM

    The Child Law Project has been critical of the judicial system in the past, so what you’re saying is false. It has commented on the impact your geographical area can have on court proceedings and outcomes for care cases. You’d be well placed to read up before making comments which are false. It’s function is to provide public access to the cases, but access where children are protected. It is not an ombudsman!

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    Mute Joe Burns
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    Jun 21st 2016, 2:13 PM

    @Diarmaid, You still still haven’t defined “Best Interests” for me?

    I wont waste my time with you until you give me an answer, you are a student and all you know is what you have been sold by your lecturers. What are you afraid of? Just give us a 1/ Legal, 2/ Scientific and 3/ Moral Value of Best Interest Principle, surely these lecturers can give you an answer?

    Given that everything done in the name of “Protecting” Children is done by the Standard of BIP, how do you measure and demonstrate the Benefit to the child?

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    Mute Diarmaid Twomey
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    Jun 21st 2016, 4:14 PM

    Joe I will be happy to answer those questions if you publicly admit what “pro-family” lobby groups you support / are involved with with?

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    Mute Diarmaid Twomey
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    Jun 21st 2016, 4:25 PM

    Can you also provide me with the source for this comment; “what is Tusla’s justification for removing far more children than the UK on a per capita basis?”

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    Mute Joe Burns
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    Jun 21st 2016, 4:29 PM

    @Diarmaid, I’m not a member of any organisation. I’m not even aware of any “Pro-Family” groups existing.

    You are doing a fine job, you are trying to discredit me rather than answer the question, just like a “real” social worker would do. “When debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser”.

    Just answer the question and stop making yourself look foolish.

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    Mute Joe Burns
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    Jun 21st 2016, 4:33 PM

    @Diarmaid, ““what is Tusla’s justification for removing far more children than the UK on a per capita basis?” That would be me at a press conference and I supplied the media with the statistics. If you can prove otherwise please do so.

    Stop being a coward and answer the question.

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    Mute Diarmaid Twomey
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    Jun 21st 2016, 5:07 PM

    Just a few things Joe. The burden of proof for proving statistics doesn’t lie with the person questioning their validity, it lies with you, the person claiming that their are legitimate. I will repeat my question, please provide me with the original source for the statistics that led to that statement. Secondly, are you aware that three of your friends are well known “pro family” advocates. In fact one of your friends in your friend list is a leading member of Iona Institute. Are you claiming you are unaware of this? Thirdly, could you please stop name calling. I am more than willing to engage in a fact based but respectful discussion, thanks.

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    Mute Diarmaid Twomey
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    Jun 21st 2016, 5:22 PM

    *theyre

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    Mute Joe Burns
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    Jun 21st 2016, 6:03 PM

    @Diarmaid, So, because I have some high profile “Friends” on FaceBook like David Quinn of the Iona Institute, I must be pro-Catholic, anti-abortion and anti-gay or whatever your tiny mind believes about Iona? I am not a member of ANY organisation, I respect David Quinn for his views and his courage to represent most Catholics in Ireland. Is David Quinn not entitled to have a private life and private friends outside Iona? Do you really want me to get a note from my Rabbi, Mullah or Parish Priest to prove I am an Atheist? If some of my other friends are “Pro-Family”, does that mean you are anti-family? You keep digging yourself deeper in, but keep going, its very entertaining.

    You are also showing your unsuitability to work in Child Protection, if that’s all you have a family law solicitor would make mincemeat out of you on the stand in court, that’s not how a professional behaves. Marxism is not a desirable trait in Social Work.

    You are showing yourself for what you are by trying to do a character assassination of me, good luck with that approach. You know you cant answer the question because even Professor Ursula Kilkelly, a leading authority on the subject, cant answer either. The UN, UNICEF, the ECtHR and the Irish Supreme Court cant give a better definition than what Hilary Rodham stated;

    “Best Interests operates as an empty vessel into which adult prejudices and beliefs are poured”

    If I write a scholarly article or scientific paper, there is an onus on the author to quote references. Where exactly in the terms and conditions of Journal.ie does it say that I must provide references and statistics? You’re really being silly now, if you have the time to Google me and “investigate” my FaceBook page, which is open for anyone to read, then you certainly have the time to do your own research. You have already lost the debate with your under-handed tactics. Have you been diagnosed with Obsessive/Compulsive disorder?

    If you are really so cock sure of yourself, answer the question without placing any conditions, I have asked you 4 times now.

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    Mute Joe Burns
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    Jun 21st 2016, 6:07 PM

    “*theyre” Its ok, I’m not Obsessive/Compulsive

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    Mute Diarmaid Twomey
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    Jun 21st 2016, 7:23 PM

    Look Joe, I’m sure in person you are a lovely guy, but that is the second personally insulting remark you have made while asking me to engage with you. Furthermore, in my opinion you are asking me a question which simply can’t be answered in the comments section of a website. You seem to think “best interests” is something that can be defined in one line, and is not a collection of physical and mental scientifics against the background of historical and empirical data. In any event, and separate to my lack of a desire to engage with someone who thinks they can insult someone personally while expecting engagement, the fact that you don’t think you need to back up statements you make means I can’t treat you as a serious engager or a credible source of any information. Anyone can make statements in a comments section of a website to suit their agenda. Stating something does not make it factual! All the best.

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    Mute Peter Fechter
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    Jun 20th 2016, 3:37 PM

    Wow…i just read the full report…these kids are damaged almost beyond belief by a deviant deceitful psychopathic criminal “mother”…and the old man isnt any better…they should never get the kids back.

    46
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    Mute Marie Gunbay
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    Jun 20th 2016, 11:06 AM

    Sometimes there are no words !

    39
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    Mute Peter Fechter
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    Jun 20th 2016, 5:35 PM

    Roma and Traveller familys…what an excellent opportunity for Pavee Point to blame Irish society and its rampant racism AND push their case for recognition of their vibrant culture and separate ethnicity….

    23
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    Mute Stephanie Barry
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    Jun 21st 2016, 1:06 AM

    @Larry L’Oiseau, Your comment: “…preferably by their own kind, and if thats (sic) not possible then by a normal family”) implies that Roma and Traveller families are not normal. Was that your intention or perhaps you just mistyped?

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    Mute gus sheridan
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    Jun 21st 2016, 7:45 AM

    And the mother did her best to teach the children how to steal….

    7
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    Mute Vic Nolan
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    Jun 20th 2016, 3:08 PM

    Joe Burns has hit the nail on the head. We are hearing only of certain cases – selective journalism at its best. We don’t hear about the abject failures by TUSLA. We don’t hear about the lies, the fabricated evidence, the falsified reports and the abuse committed on foster children within the system. The In camera rule in Family Courts is gagging everybody. Incompetent social workers are hiding behind the veil of secrecy. WAKE UP PEOPLE.

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    Mute Stephanie Barry
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    Jun 21st 2016, 1:21 AM

    Well said Vic Nolan!

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    Mute Caroline Otoole
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    Jun 20th 2016, 4:35 PM

    I am delighted to read the first paragraph of this report. I hope the kids make some sort of recovery.

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    Mute Pediculosis Assoc
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    Jun 20th 2016, 4:35 PM

    Not always — but sometimes head lice are about neglect & serve the child as a red flag for bigger problems facing them at home.

    “Head lice are Mother Nature’s finest and tiniest epidemiologists. They tell us our public health guard is down and who is at risk.” Deborah Altschuler, President, National Pediculosis Association

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    Mute Peter Fechter
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    Jun 20th 2016, 5:00 PM

    Whats that? A headline appreciation society? Or a nits support group?

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    Mute Rebecca De Stanleigh
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    Jun 20th 2016, 5:48 PM

    You could not be more wrong. Kids with full clean hair are at most risk.

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    Mute Peter Fechter
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    Jun 20th 2016, 5:52 PM

    Sorry. “headliCe”

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    Mute Jeffre Tomred
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    Jun 26th 2016, 2:41 AM

    BE SMART AND BECOME RICH IN LESS THAN 3DAYS….It all depends on how fast you can be to get the new PROGRAMMED blank ATM card that is capable of hacking into any ATM machine,anywhere in the world. I got to know about this BLANK ATM CARD when I was searching for job online about l 5days ago ..It has really changed my life for good and now I can say I’m rich and I can never be poor again. The least money I get $2,000 daily and now i have $10,000… Everyday I keeping pumping money into my account. Though is illegal,there is no risk of being caught ,because it has been programmed in such a way that it is not traceable,it also has a technique that makes it impossible for the CCTVs to detect you..For details on how to get yours today, email the hackers on : (cindytedder767@yahoo.com) Tell your loved once too, and start to live large. That’s the simple testimony of how my life changed for good…Love you all …the email address again is (cindytedder767@yahoo.com)

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    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Jo45
    Favourite Jo45
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    Jun 21st 2016, 8:03 AM

    The results of generations of inbreeding

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