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The HSE would rather see a patient have their leg amputated than pay for a machine to save it.
— ROSCOMMON-GALWAY TD Michael Fitzmaurice has slammed the HSE for what he claims is an “inhumane stance” on provision of funding for a medical device one of his constituents’ needs.
The patient faces losing a leg unless he can get hold of the device, Fitzmaurice has claimed.
The man in question, according to the independent deputy, was told by his consultant that he needs to use an arterial assist pump (ArtAssist pump) for at least three months or he will lose his leg.
Device recommended by his doctor
The constituent – a pensioner - was told by the hospital that they would try and make a machine available to him, but it later emerged this wasn’t possible. He ended up hiring a machine from a private medical equipment company, resulting in a bill of over €2,000.
The ArtAssist pump increases arterial blood flow for those who suffer from severe vascular conditions in their legs.
Fitzmaurice said:
This man has already paid over €2,000 out of his own pocket for this machine. He has now been told by his consultant that he needs it for 3 more months or he will risk losing his leg.
Yet, the HSE, who funded up to 2012, are saying they will not fund the machine. However, if this man has to have his leg amputated, they will cover the cost of the amputation.
The use of the pumps in the Galway and Roscommon was discontinued pending the outcome of a review of their efficiency, requested by the HSE in 2013.
Fitzmaurice claims the HSE circulated a memo to doctors in 2012 explaining that the apparatus would not be funded under the Medical Card Scheme, and that if doctors wanted to prescribe it, their clients would have to pay for it.
Funding amputations
Fitzmaurice said:
It is absolutely scandalous that the HSE will fund the amputation of a patient’s leg but will not fund the machine that might enable them to keep their leg. The excuse that they are reviewing the ‘benefits’ of this machine does not fly, because as far as I am concerned the primary physician for the patient, and not some bureaucrat, is the person who should be making any such decisions.
It is inhumane as far as I am concerned. The fact a pensioner must decide between the basics of food, light and heat or paying for a machine which can help him keep his leg is absolutely criminal.
The Roscommon-Galway TD said he had been in correspondence with the HSE for the last two weeks, but there had been no movement on the issue.
Who pays for the pumps?
TDs were briefed on this issue by respected Galway-based vascular surgeon, Sherif Sultan, back in 2013.
At the time, Fianna Fáil’s Dara Calleary said there was a disagreement between different units of the HSE as to who pays for the ArtAssist pumps. During that period, over 550 patients needed a pump in Ireland.
There were 127 patients on a waiting list for a machine. Calleary made the same point as Fitzmaurice – that buying a machine would cost a lot less than the cost of an operation to amputate someone’s leg.
The former Minister of State at the Department of Health, Alex White, said this type of expenditure would be made at local level under “local schemes”.
He said the ArtAssist pump would fall into this category. Roscommon-Galway TD Denis Naughten – who is now the Minister for Communications, Climate Change and Natural Resources – called the situation “bizarre” in 2013.
The local review, by the Galway-Roscommon NCCP office of the HSE, into the efficacy of this pump was questionable, Naughten insisted.
He said Sultan had published peer review studies on this equipment and conducted an analysis of the 127 patients on the waiting list that showed it was five-and-a-half times cheaper to use the ArtAssist pump than to treat people conventionally.
Of those treated with this equipment, 94% will save their legs… I find it bizarre the HSE wants to carry out its own review.
In response to a query on the matter by TheJournal.ie the HSE stated:
In June 2013, HIQA found that “from the limited data that is available, intermittent pneumatic compression appears to be a potentially beneficial treatment … but more research is needed to confirm this.Until such evidence is generated… this treatment remains unproven”. Based on the recommendations from the HIQA report, we are unable to provide funding for the supply of Art Assist Compression devices for home use at this time.
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Do people’s taxes actually pay for anything any more?
Yea, politicians wages, expenses and pensions..
Let’s keep the recovery going lads!
If the average age of the kids having teeth extracted is 6 how can it be due to cutbacks? The school checkups start in 2nd class, there are no 6 year olds in 2nd class.
Trevor, You pay taxes so that vulture funds and corporate tax dodgers like Apple don’t have to.
It like everything else in this country the individual takes no responsibility for their own actions. If children this age are having their teeth extracted it because parents are feeding them sugar all day and not ensuring the kids brush their teeth at least twice a day. I know in my house there a nightly battle to get the teeth brushed, but brushed they are because I’m the parent and I’m in charge.
@Tom. We are paying for plenty of native layabouts too you know.
@mickmc:
Yes, the children with rotten teeth and scoliosis twisted spines must take responsibility because the bankers, vulture funds and corporate parasites take no responsibility for the consequences of their greed.
@Dusty. You can blame a lot on the list you named above but all these problems have being in the health system as long as I can remember. The problem in our health system is caused by lazy and inefficient managers and management system who are protected by unions. For some reason successive governments have failed to tackle this problem head on and until they do nothing substantive will change.
If you tolerate this then your children will be next…
Apple!! We don’t want your tax!!!
Yes we have to ensure that Apple is not forced to pay tax, stuff the citizens.
@mickmc:
“all these problems have being in the health system as long as I can remember.”
More nonsense. The rise in the numbers of children with rotten teeth is directly attributable to the austerity cutbacks as outlined by the Dental Association CEO:
“Discussing how 10,000 Irish children are having extractions under general anesthetic every year, Hourigan said, “There is no way this level of extractions should be happening in a first world country. We believe this is a direct result of the collapse of the school screenings in these areas as children in these counties are not being seen until they are in first year in secondary school.”
It is always amazing how wally and his ilk do not accept any level of personal responsibility and is eager to have government interference in all aspects of our lives. If a child age 6 has rotten teeth, it is bad parenting and nothing else. Austerity is not to blame for rotten teeth in kids. Bad lifestyle and bad parents are.
Wally if the dental checks in schools have always started at 2nd class how can you blame tooth decay in a 6 year old on them being cutback? It doesn’t make sense.
@FifiJamming:
Nope. The escalating numbers of children with rotten teeth is a direct result of the austerity cutbacks as explained by the professionals in the article above. Regular dental checkups are required to identify and address problems before extraction becomes necessary.
It’s always unsurprising that Fifi and his fellow drooling neoliberal mouthpieces will invariably try to blame the victims for the catastrophic failures of the grossly exploitative system he cheerleads for.
@jane:
Direct your question to the Irish Dental Association chief executive Fintan Hourihan. He believes it makes sense.
This is bullshit. Rotten teeth in young children is mainly fault of parents…..
@Liam Treacy:
Sure what would the CEO of the Dental Association know compared to yourself Liam?
“Discussing how 10,000 Irish children are having extractions under general anesthetic every year, Hourigan said, “There is no way this level of extractions should be happening in a first world country. We believe this is a direct result of the collapse of the school screenings in these areas as children in these counties are not being seen until they are in first year in secondary school.”
He has a vested interested and never mentioned positive preventative action. He wants more spent on dental as many dentists are struggling financially.
Wally does it make sense to you?
And dental check ups are the responsibility of the child’s parents. Not the state.
@Dusty Mooney: He can “believe” all he wants, does he have proof ?
@Liam Treacy: Expecting personal responsibility ??? Ooh Wally/Dusty/how ever many other accounts won’t like that!
@jane:
Yes.
We don’t live in a first world country,we are the Africans of Europe,backward third world failed state.
It makes sense to you that a child of 6 had their teeth extracted because the older children in their school haven’t been getting their dental checks?
@Trevor Beale: the banks and developers bailout money, and repaying that huge loan we took from europe to pay it with
@jane:
It makes sense to me that the incidence of children with rotten teeth has risen as the school dental checkups have been cut back to help pay for the banker’s debts.
Average age of kids getting extractions is 6, they wouldn’t be getting the check up in school anyway so the cutbacks don’t affect them.
@Trevor Beale: The government was told this would happen if they took dental off PRSI but they didn’t care. The troika masters wanted there blood money. PRSI is just a tax now as your stamps even I’f you loose your job, work out as the same amount of money as if you never worked and if you haven’t got two years full time put down it is actually less and you would be told to go on the jobseekers alllowence as it pays the full 188 a week. Joke is an understatement
@jane:
It’s a statistical average and what the average was in 2008 before the austerity program is not stated in the article. Let’s say it was 8 for arguments sake. Based on the Dental Chief’s comment, the average age at which these extractions under anesthetic are occurring has been reducing as the school dental check ups have been scrapped (to pay for the banker’s debts). So for example children missing their check up in 2nd class results in them having their teeth extracted in 4th class which has dragged the average down from 8 to 6.
As I said. You should direct your query to Dental Association chief Fintan Hourihan.
@Dusty Mooney: chool dental check ups have been scrapped – they haven’t, my daughter’s 3rd class have all been to the public dentist in the past few months.
@FifiJamming:
Yes, I’m sure they still have the checkups in the schools in the affluent areas where the mouthpieces for the establishment get to live and spend their 30 pieces of silver.
My daughter attends a DEIS school wally. So less on the personal attacks, good lad.
@FifiJamming:
And why would you accept this “government interference” in your daughter’s life in any case?
You’re clearly opposed to this in you earlier comment and believe that dental health is purely down to “personal responsibility”
@Dusty Mooney: “Spare us your unverifiable anecdotes mouthpiece.” – what does that mean? She goes to school where she goes to school. She has good teeth, and private dental care, she went because it was mandatory. She also has good dental hygiene.
You’re clearly opposed to this in you earlier comment and believe that dental health is purely down to “personal responsibility” – do you want the minister for health to visit all the kids to clean their teeth
You’re truly an unfathomable mouthpiece for idiocy.
It can also mean the average is coming down because the amount of very young kids needing extractions is growing. But we’ll ignore that reason, it doesn’t fit with your narrative.
All, do not waste any time arguing with Dusty. He is like a monkey with a drum, the more you argue the more he keeps banging that drum.
Dusty you can change your name as many times as you like, you will always be a wally!!
A child’s health and well-being is the responsibility of the parent not the state, if you leave having their first dental checkup to age 8, 9 or older you are shirking your responsibility as a parent. Both my lads (32 and 22) have never had an extraction or a filling, why? Because we taught them how to look after their teeth.
@jane:
If you want clarification, what you could do is trot along and ask the Dental Association chief Fintan Hourihan as I advised earlier.
Or are you somehow under the illusion that I’m here to answer your questions?
@Dusty Mooney: I have no say in the status of the school and as we live in a small town, it is the only school she can attend. Lunches are optional and we pay for her books as we do not qualify for assistance, and she does not get extra tuition. Anything else pal?
@Dusty Mooney: “Or are you somehow under the illusion that I’m here to answer your questions?” – no, you’re just here to provide amusement, attack others and doing your best to get banned so as you can come back in another reincarnation.
@molly coddled:
“A child’s health and well-being is the responsibility of the parent not the state”
Really? What about the children with scoliosis for example who’s health is deteriorating rapidly as they wait for desperately needed operations? Is that not the fault of the state which bailed out the banks at the expense of the people?
@Dusty Mooney: Equating dental hygiene with scoliosis wally? Why not compare apples with apples?
@Dusty Mooney: Yea, I’ll move to a different town just for that reason. And a person who wishes to attack a parent for sending their child to school shows the calibre of that useless man.
Well if you are type of person that uses a child to attack another person wally you truly are despicable and have no understanding of common decency
@FifiJamming:
You brought your daughter into the discussion and I’m not using the child to attack you. Merely pointing out your rank hypocrisy.
Hopefully your daughter receives a good rounded education in the Deis school and doesn’t judge people from an ideological high horse as her establishment mouthpiece father does.
It’s not hypocrisy when you live in a one school town to send your child to that school. And it’s a very good school. You’re an odious little man.
@dusty mooney. You cannot equate congenital and idiopathic scoliosis sufferers whose pain can only be alleviated by elective surgery with children needing dental extractions through tooth decay because their parents didn’t bother educating themselves with the importance of diet and oral hygiene. @fifijamming, they’re not worth your time or effort – where ignorance is bliss ’tis folly to be wise :)
@molly coddled:
Let me remind you of what you wrote:
“A child’s health and well-being is the responsibility of the parent not the state”
Now that’s clearly not the case as outlined with the scoliosis example. The state does bear a responsibility for the health and welfare of the people and they have abdicated that responsibility as they dismantle the public health system to pay for banker’s debts. And one of the consequences of the state making that choice to serve the elites at the expense of the majority is outlined clearly in the article above. And it’s very likely that our political establishment who made that choice will never have to take personal responsibility for that betrayal. While people like you who blame the victims make it almost certain.
@Billy Rangers. Having spent a short period of time in Africa any suggestion that we in this country are anything likes these poor souls in Africa is an absolute insult to the them. People who have never visited the real Africa cannot begin to imagine the level of poverty, and believe you me we have nothing to complain about here in comparison.
Pretty sure I saw a documentary that placed the blame on diet and sugary drinks. Whatever makes a story I guess…
OR..
parents, don’t give your kids too much sugar and make sure they brush their teeth twice a day!
No reason to blame cutbacks every time to let shyte parents off the hook.
@Colin Moran: Sugar is a massive problem in our food as well as drinks but what is being cut back is education, first hand face to face this is the cause and that’s what it’s doing kind of education. But hey keep the recovery going and you keep being superior.
@Colin Moran:
Pretty stupid comment… Regular Dental checkups as well as a healthy eating is needed for healthy teeth..
Kids as young as six having teeth pulled can’t be blamed on the abolition of checkups in 2nd, 4th and 6th class. No child is 6 in 2nd class. In those cases, a sugary diet is to blame.
@Maria Hickey-Fagan: The sugars in foods like bread, beans, fruit, potatoes — and many others — act with bacteria already in your mouth to form acids that can eat away at your teeth.
Maire.. you know your stuff. .. also FLOSSING!! Floss your. Child’s teeth, start as soon as the get their baby teeth! V important
It’s actually not. Recent research has found flossing does F all
Well that was British research, not exactly known for their oral health!
This is one area where the yanks are way ahead of everyone else. It’s pretty standard on any basic insurance plan in the US to get 2 checkups and cleanings a year. And let’s face it, it shows.
We all grew up eating bread, beans, fruit, potatoes. Yet I had my first filling at 18. No teeth out till I was in my twenties. Juices are of course largely to blame, as are sugary cereals. Those Fruit Shoots aimed at kids are basically sugar in a bottle. And don’t get me started on Coco Pops. Teamed with good oral hygiene, a healthy diet incorporating the so-called villains you listed above will avoid the need for tooth extraction at six years old!
And parental laziness in not educating their children on oral hygiene… I don’t get it, just why do some parents not do this???
@Colin Moran:@Colin Moran:my daughter is 6 she needs 6 teeth pulled 1 for absis the others cavities she has brushed her teeth since she got her first tooth and rarely has sweets and never has fizzy drinks sometimes it just happens and can’t be helped
If parents showed kids how to brush their teeth…..
Bet austerity hasn’t affected their sky tv packages etc!
My thoughts exactly!!! Take responsibility and stop blaming the government for everything.
Free dental & health check ups should be done across all primary and secondary schools. Its a must to help develop a healthy population. Japan do this at a very low cost, they see the long term savings
http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/2/dental/
The 2nd line of this informing us of private dentists…on the HSE website!
I paid 80e after Christmas to get a checkup for my 4 year old grandson, he’s not in school yet.
I dont have that kind of money to spare but I will NOT let them go through what I did as a child,when MY parents couldnt afford dentists either.
Maire.. shop around for prices.. it’s the only way..
Maire, €80 is way too much for a child check up. I brought my 5 & 7 year old girls in last week during the midterm for a check and it was €40 in total. €20 each. That was a private dentist.
In fact if you rang around you’d get the cheaper price even if over 100 miles away wouldn’t it be a day out for you and grandchild on a train or bus? You’d save €60 on the dentist which would pay for the day out together
Visit Northern Ireland, not as expensive.
De cafe de yea €180 per annum, and cheaper plans are available. Gives 4 visits a year for free. Plus a range of other benefits.
**de care dental
@Máire Ní Bhríain: Shop around for prices, I found a clinic close to where I live that had reasonable prices and was able to get a check up, scale and polish for 50 euro.
@Máire Ní Bhríain: If that included 3d X-ray’s it’s about right.
Is there anything in public services not skinned to the bone.need to elect people who will put the public first.
This prevantative measures is a must to ensure healty teeth and detect tooth decay this saves mobey ib the ling run. It is a shame this service is not provided and yes cut backs should be blamed we need to get our prioroties rigtht cut down on repaying bankers debt and look after our citizens. This is basic stuff in every other country and a vital public service.
It’s not up to the state to look after people’s teeth, let alone their health. Parents have to take responsibility. Stop feeding your kids crap, teach them how to brush their teeth properly. It’s not F’ing rocket science.
@Panem et Circenses: I’ll try again… The sugars in foods like bread, beans, fruit, potatoes — and many others — act with bacteria already in your mouth to form acids that can eat away at your teeth.
”It’s not up to the state to look after people’s teeth, let alone their health.” says the egg
Exactly, so after eating foods like these, brush…your…teeth
There may be sugar in those foods you’ve mentioned but in the majority of cases they are not the foods causing the problem. It’s the sugar in the juices they are sipping throughout the day, the chocolate and sugary cereals, the chocolate spreads in their sandwiches etc etc.
There’s sugar in everything you eat now ,its the drug to garentee sales, shame on the government and its save the banks and EU policies.
Fruit juice, smoothies and fruit have an impact on teeth too causing decay.
It’s societies norms that are wrong. Only this morning my kids were requesting pan cakes for breakfast, lunch and dinner! Stating others who do it. Seriously, I must be a meany mummy but forget that. I can remember having lemon and sugar on my pan cakes as a treat and something I looked forwards to once a year. Now it’s every meal that day and don’t forget the chocolate sauce and syrup. Treats need to be reclaimed as treats.
Melissa I get it from my kids at least once a week over their lunch boxes. It seems ‘everyone else’ brings a treat and juice instead of water.
@Panem et Circenses: But those check ups don’t just check for tooth decay they are also used to detect where teeth are growing incorrectly so corrective action can be taken early, before it gets to the point that you can’t afford the get it fixed.
Don’t buy the sugary stuff, therefore the kids don’t get to eat it. Its the responsibility of the parents. Works in our house. What they don’t get, they won’t miss, or scream for.
For f*ck sake, what a stupid comment. Are the government not introducing initiatives like the new safe food food pyramid that emphasises that sugary foods should be consumed less, there’s schools now where sugary foods and drinks are banned and leading endocrinologists like Dr Donal o shea emphasise the danger of sugar through hse information. But, im only a doctor, what would I know.
@gerard heery for the above comment
I get that on a Friday. EVERYONE brings a treat to school on Friday. The only thing is then they go for play dates and have treats there. If the kids do sport on a Saturday EVERYONE has a hot chocolate. It’s hard to explain why they aren’t everyone. Don’t get me wrong my kids get treats but I hate being pushed into it.
Its also not up to the state to look after capitalist bankers and bondholders losses but we did….and if we didnt we would have plentyof money to takecare ofour healthcare system…..its not F’ing rocket science
I’m sure the type of parents who let their kids teeth rot are happy to spend €80 on other expenses instead of a dental check up. It’s so pathetic how people love to blame the government for everything. Since when is it a government’s responsibility to ensure your child’s teeth are brushed and cared for?? Unbelievable
Or they could take some of the money the state already gives them.
Child benefit is €1580 a year…. a tenth of that would be enough to cover basic dental care for a school age child.
Whippie. I remember when my PRSI paid for a dental check up and polish twice a year. Not anymore though. That ended when austerity began. Many people can’t make ends meet and sadly a trip to the dentist is almost a luxury these days.
I bet if you look at the lifestyle of parents who’s kids teeth are rotten and you will find there will be money spent on cider cans and cigarettes.. Sad but true. A trip to the dentist will be a low priority for certain parents where it should be a top priority, before ‘luxuries’ for mom and dad
Or is it the price of having useless parents who feed you sugar and don’t make sure you brush your teeth.
My son brushes his teeth twice a day and – thankfully – isn’t mad about sweets or chocolate. He eats a lot of fruit, nuts and other healthy foods, and has the occasional bag of crisps. He had to have a few teeth extracted recently, under general anaesthetic. Despite his healthy eating, the dentist said it must be down to the fact that he ‘grazes’, i.e. picks at healthy food throughout the day, and therefore his teeth are more regularly under attack. I thought the type of foods he ate were enough to keep his teeth healthy. Turns out I was wrong. Timing is also everything :/
@Frank’s Cat: this attitude is completely wrong to have, a parent can only do so much ie makes sure regular brushing etc but at the end of the day the gov is responsible for the way things are regarding its citizens health, be angry with them not parents trying to look after their children
Everyone we are going to have to come together to change this. I am a parent and this is wrong.
I’m not a parent but I think it’s wrong too.
The reality is it’s the cost of Labour, they refused to reform social welfare, preferring to continue to transfer scarce tax payers funds to those who have never worked or intend to, rather than meaning reform that ensures payments to to genuine claimants seeking work
@Stephen Kearon: What?
Strange to see this criticism from Sinn Fein. Given their attempts to stop fluoridation of drinking water I assumed they were in favour of children requiring extractions.
I always think that the measure of a government is how it looks after its people . Since 1997 (when I moved here) there seems to have been an ideological drive to remove people from any kind of preventative care and a drive to private and emergency care only. I for one what my taxes to pay for a preferably efficient health service.
Dunno about you but I was 6 before I was in 2nd class? Click bait title…
@Niamh: So you started school when you were 2?
Who would of thunk it. Removing preventative treatments like dental services would have an impact on dental conditions down the road. Amazing
I’d say the main prevention is a good toothbrush and toothpaste and cutting out junk. Dental check ups in themselves are unlikely to prevent much without a good oral hygiene routine at home.
The Irish dental system is like our health system. How big is your wallet. Irish dentist are over priced. If you can go to Northern Ireland it is half the price. Of course if you live there it is part of the ONE trier health system we’re it’s NOT the size of your wallet that counts.
I just got an implant, it only cost me €2,200.
:-(
Buy a second hand car for 2200.seems alot of money for piece of porcelene and titanium
Do the children requiring major dental surgery have parents? What are they feeding the kids? Do the use toothbrushes?
No. The actual cause of these extractions is tooth rot caused by eating/drinking too much sugary rubbish and not brushing teeth properly. End of…
if people should know anything by now is the combined wreckage of FF, FG and Lab has brought our country to a third world degree, regarding health care, education etc oh its there if you can afford it, if you cant, tough luck.
remember if you complain about this but vote these parties then dont look at anyone else but yourself as you are the problem
its time for serious debates to be had around the family as a whole, time for unity, time for change
Welcome to the third world HSE. Still as long as FG look after their buddies it does not matter.
A six year old child wouldn’t have been picked up anyway if they are not checked till second class, I needed to see the hse dentist for a very young child from a fall and it wasn’t an issue
What about cleaning your teeth?
My dentist charged €22 for a kids check up .. money well spent ,the price of 40 cigarettes!! Only needed annually … hardly an exorbitant amount.. about 7 cents a day
Suffer little children who come under an FG.FF Labour governments for they are not wealthy and therefore dont count.
Why do children need dental work? Are the Dentists and the Government filling them up on coke and sweets?
@mickmc. Layabouts pax tax aswell !
So the fluoride added to our public water supply is useless then ?
How a point is made is important, so as not to undermine the cause in hand e.g. 6-yr olds aren’t usually in 2nd class at school.
You mean the failures of parenting, right???? I’ve seen kids of around 5 and 6 drinkin away on the likes of Coca-Cola and eating crap every single day.
As per other contributors – recession cannot be totally at fault. We had to get several teeth removed due to raisins – my child didnt drink sugary drinks nor had he a sweet tooth – but raisins he looooved. We were told they are lethal as they stick to the tooth and are a nightmare to clean. Do could it be a upsurge in raisin consumption?
My 6 year old son had to have five teeth extracted under general anesthetic, which was traumatic for him and his parents.
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