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THE FIRST MEETING of the Citizens’ Assembly – a grouping of about 100 people formed to discuss Eighth Amendment – is to be moved forward by more than a month, TheJournal.ie has learned.
Cabinet members were told yesterday that the process will begin in late-September instead of November, as was earlier announced.
The decision to fast-track the process comes as the government feels more pressure from activists, opposition parties and the United Nations about current abortion laws.
A significant debate between Fine Gael and Independent Alliance members over a bill tabled by Independent 4 Change TD Mick Wallace dominated yesterday’s Cabinet meeting.
The Wexford deputy’s legislation – if passed – would amend the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act to allow pregnant women who have been given diagnoses of fatal foetal abnormalities to have a termination in Ireland.
Members of the Independent Alliance in Cabinet are seeking a free vote on the bill, stating that it is a matter of conscience.
The argument arises as new figures today will reveal that 26 terminations were carried out in Ireland last year under the 2013 Act. The terminations were carried out in Ireland where a mother’s life was at risk, including the risk of suicide.
Mick’s Bill
Wallace continues to seek support for new laws that would allow for terminations in specific circumstances where both a perinatologist and obstetrician deem the pregnancy to be non-viable.
Junior Minister and Independent Alliance TD John Halligan has been particularly adamant that a free vote be allowed on his proposed legislation.
In an interview with TheJournal.ie earlier this month, he said he doesn’t have to vote with the government on all issues.
Forcing women with fatal foetal abnormalities, and women who have been raped and traumatised go through nine months of pregnancy is “outrageous”, according to the Waterford deputy.
“It is inhuman and I haven’t changed one iota on that.”
Speaking to TheJournal.ie, Halligan said there were heated discussions on the issue at yesterday’s Cabinet meeting but confirmed no decision has been made as of yet.
We gave our points of view, they gave theirs, but there was no agreement.
He said members of the Independent Alliance were still holding out, hoping there will be a free vote next week following a debate on Wallace’s bill.
Minister of State for Disabilities Finian McGrath said there was a good debate on the issue, during which he and Minister Shane Ross put forward their argument that this has been the Independent Alliance’s position for a long time.
However, there was no movement from members of Fine Gael.
McGrath said it was a “moral and ethical issue” for him.
Halligan said he has been informed that the Attorney General has ruled that the bill is unconstitutional. However, Halligan said he wants to see the advice in writing.
“We can’t vote on something that is unconstitutional,” he said.
It will be interesting to read it and see why it has been deemed unconstitutional.
Speaking on the possibility that it is unconstitutional, McGrath said as a senior member of Cabinet he had to listen to the advice of the Attorney General.
However, he said he has also been talking to medical experts that are saying this legislation is not going to solve the issue and that “it is flawed”.
“I don’t want to lead these families up the garden path either, that is my dilemma,” he said.
What is key for me is those women who have to go through this horrific event. I have met with many of them over the years. I don’t want to stab them in the back on this either.
“Hopefully there will be an arrangement reached before next week,” said Halligan.
It is understood that a number of senior Cabinet members are working behind the scenes on the issue in order to reach some sort of resolution or compromise.
One senior government source stated that independent ministers will have a free vote in relation to the process surrounding the establishment of the Citizen’s Assembly, which will ultimately result in a vote in the Dáil on the issue of repealing the Eighth Amendment.
He said there is no free vote on any other process and it would be the expectation that those who signed up to the programme for government would adhere to it.
Yesterday, Tánaiste Frances Fitzgerald said legislation in establishing the formation of the Citizen’s Assembly – a group of citizens tasked with debating the issue and making recommendations to a Dáil committee in relation to the Eighth Amendment – had been approved by Cabinet.
In a statement issued late last night, the Terminations for Medical Reasons grouping (a parents’ assembly set up by men and women who have had to travel abroad after fatal foetal diagnoses) called on all Dáil deputies to support Wallace’s bill.
The group argued that the “Supreme Court and not the Attorney General is the only authority in Ireland that can determine whether or not a bill is constitutional”.
Spokesperson Gerry Edwards added: “The Government has argued before that only the Supreme Court can develop and interpret human rights under the Constitution and that they must be allowed to do so.
Now they appear to be hiding behind the coat tails of the Attorney General to avoid taking responsibility for making decisions as legislators that they are morally obliged to do. They cannot have their cake and eat it too.
“We now know that Ireland is abusing women who are facing the most tragic of circumstances on a daily basis. To fail to act to mitigate or prevent the suffering caused by this abuse is cowardly and contemptible.”
TFMR Ireland says it is “hopeful” that the bill will pass and that “President Higgins, if he so chooses, can refer the Bill to the Supreme Court”.
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Cool article. The Brits are hilarious.
@Lisa Saputo: and they make your corps wait wks till burial . We just prefer a 3 day bender
Another tradition is one hundred years old this week, the tradition of Irish Republicans refusing to swear allegiance to the British queen and refusing to take their seats. Surely it’s time FG and FF put their money where their mouth is, run candidates in the north and take their seats in Westminster? Surely if they believe SF should take their seats then they would do the same? Surely they would win seats in the north after all they’ve done for Northern Nationalists? Surely!!
@European Bob: that tradition is not 100 years old. The tradition died out in 1921 when Ireland got its independence, but was started again in the 70s by a splinter faction of the Workers Party calling itself Sinn Fein.
@European Bob: calm down Shirley.
@European Bob: surely you can’t be serious?!
@Big Red: Actually the Workers Party came from Sinn Fein not the other way.
Sinn Fein split into Provisional and Official, the Officials became “Sinn Fein the workers party” then just “The workers Party” from which Democratic Left split, who then merged with (took over) Labour. I think The Workers Party is still around, but I believe that Thomas McGiolla was the last to be elected to any major position.
@European Bob: slight lack of understanding what a republic is, there Bob. A office holder of a republic cannot swear alligeance to any royal of any origin or to any other power that does not eminate for the people of that republic. FF, FG or anyone considering that would have to form an external party, taking note that any crossing of the party whip (over serving office holders) would be illegal and treasonous to that republic. I dont know, but I suspect it’s similar for the house of commons over there.
@Greg Blake: I’d imagine taking up the oath in the UK, would negate any right of SF MPs to direct or influence the voting of any SF TDs.
@Big Red: You might want to recheck your facts there. They are a little bit on the alternative side.
@Big Red: Note to Red, Ireland didn’t get its independence in 1921. 6 counties still occupied.
@European Bob: its a pity it can’t just become another British parliament tradition, where they symbolically deny sinn fein mps entry a few times, and then just let them take their seats…
@Big Red: partial independence
Maintaining all the fuss and feathers of empire is the root cause of the British sense of self importance.
@Kevin Barry: like wearing a shamrock to commemorate a 1,500 year dead kidnap victim Welsh “saint” who drove the non-existent snakes out of Ireland?
@Robin Pickering: you have us on that one. ;-), All countries have their quaint customs, it’s what makes the world interesting. As long as they are harmless, then let them at it.
@Greg Blake: true. Life would be boring if we were all the same.
A total bunch of clowns the lot of them
@Ciarān: word
@Ciarān: Why are they a bunch of clowns?
@jo mixon: Do i need to explain or have you not been following the news for the the last 2 years?!
I knew a village bycicle who loved the black rod
“Right honourable” means a member of the privy council. Nothing to do with ministerial office
@Dave Ringer: that’s correct. Jeffrey Donaldson from the DUP gets referred to as “the right honourable” just because he is on the queen’s privy council. He is not a minister.
I find this very offensive to Blacks & Rods
MPs are traditionally called ‘honourable’, or ‘hon’ for short. They aren’t referred to by name by other members, but by the constituency they represent. The Speaker calls them by name.
A ‘friend’ is an MP in the same party; referring to others, they are just a ‘member’.
‘Right hon’ means the member is a member of the Privy Council; the get the letters PC after their name.
‘Hon and learned’ means the member is a QC, the equivalent of a SC.
‘Hon and gallant’ means the member is a Sir, a knight.
have your say