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GARDAÍ ARE THANKING the public for their help after missing person David Smyth was located safe and well.
The 52-year-old had been missing from Swords, north Dublin, since last Tuesday but he has now been located.
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I hope he makes it! Better than all the other so called choices.
Why do people like him so much?
@Connor Because he is a liberal & outspoken. He fought to have homosexuality legalized during the dark ages of 1980s Ireland. He has a good record in the senate of tackling issues of human rights, etc.
Also, the other contenders are pathetically bad…. then again the president has too pretty useless powers – they’ve barely ever been used.
Because he’s not afraid to set himself up for a hiding in the name of doing the right thing Connor. This proves it once again, in my view.
I would have voted for David Norris, but in light of the Ezra Nawi revelations I wouldn’t vote for him now. Seeking clemency for a man who was convicted of statutory rape of a 15 year old was a serious error of judgement regardless of circumstances straight / gay, forced / consensual, honey trap or not. His absence of rational thought was put down to the fact that he was blinded by love. I personally don’t want the president of my country making such serious errors of judgement when in important elected positions.
I am in total agreement with the wise man who described Ezra Nawi’s actions as ‘terrible’ and the action of David Norris in defending him as ‘wrong’. Who said these things – David Norris on the 2nd of August.
As I said already I would have voted for him but will not now. He was right to withdraw from the race and should not re-enter it as by his own admission his actions were wrong.
And to those with the red thumbs at the ready let me ask you what you would be saying if Bertie or Biffo had written a letter for clemency for a 40 year old man convicted of the statutory rape of a 15 year old boy or girl? I’d imagine you would want a.bounty for execution put on their heads.
David tends to action based on his emotional feelings rather than rational thought, hence the letter he wrote asking for clemency for his friend/ex partner,
If a similar letter was written by a priest there would be outrage, also I believe that because the youth at the centre of the statutory rape was a male, many people do not take it as serious.
This is nothing to do with anyone’s sexuality, it is only to do with right and wrong
Spot on James, can’t for the life of me understand why so many fools want to vote for him after everything.
100 red thumbs now to probe my point.
I sincerely hope you won’t be voting for Gay Mitchell then. He after all sought clemency for a man convicted of the shooting, then raping and then murdering of an 18 year old girl as well as for a man convicted of the murder of a doctor.
God Brian Ó Dálaigh you are really are obsessed by Gay Mitchell. You do know that you, just like everyone else who is privileged to have a vote in the upcoming polls, does not have to vote for Gay Mitchell unless you want to or unless you want to give him one of your later preferences so as to block some other candidate? I am just checking since every second comment you make brings up Gay Mitchell despite the absence of anyone actively supporting him.
To Evelyn Finnegan. Apart from one thing (ie. what you decribe as “degrading and offending”, I would describe as merely pragmatic) I have to express my admiration for the manner in which you put across your points of view. There is logic and rationale behind your thinking and I am impressed by that. I also hold in high regard the fact that you can argue your case without resorting to below-the-belt tactics – innuendo and insults – unlike some people on this forum. It is heartening to see that two individuals can have a difference of opinion and mutual respect at the same time.
Hope he at least gets to run …. he’s one of the few truly independent candidates for the non-party presidency.
Bullshit, talk about being modest? “I think my comeback would be the biggest in Irish political history” get over yourself!
“I think people love a comeback, and they love somebody who’ll say ‘I’ll come back’.
This would be the biggest comeback in Irish political history and I think people like that.
They like the energy of it, and they like the visions and they like the fact I’ve achieved certain things.”
- So what this whole thing was just a publicity stunt for attention and votes? Your campaign idea now is that people love comebacks so they’ll vote for me? Hate him now more than I did before.
In fairness the media haven’t exactly given a lot of air time for his actual policies in the first place – on suicide, on the economy, on jobs. He appeared on a talk show and they wanted a soundbyte. Norris delivered, and you have to admit, it’s a lot catchier than “there’s something to be said for pederasty”…
Personally, I see Sean Gallagher as the best candidate. He has charisma, and by far is the greatest speaker out of all of them. He has entrepreneurial connections and knowledge that is exactly what this country needs more than ever. This compliments his sharp image that would make him an excellent ambassador for the country.
Plus he isn’t about to roll into the next coffin.
Sean Gallagher has a whiff of FF off him and it stinks
who said anything about “modest”?
What does his past with FF got to do with him as an – independent – presidential candidiate now? Surely his other positives and experience greatly outweigh his, what you reckon to be a negative, his past affiliation with FF?
Don’t paint everyone with the same brush, especially when they’re not even connected to the current government that is the cause of all the FF hate.
What does his past with FF got to do with him as an – independent – presidential candidiate now? Surely his other positives and experience greatly outweigh his, what you reckon to be a negative, his past affiliation with FF? Don’t paint everyone with the same brush.
Get a new, actually plausible argument.
Good luck David – mcGuiness entering now makes you favourite I think.
He didn’t answer any of the questions that Turbidy asked him, yet again the Irish poodles applaud and whoop when told
He didn’t get a get a chance to answer a damn question, by the time Norris got to his third word Turbidy was interrupting him.
Poor old Turbidy is useless at a tough interview, eh?… he did try… but failed.
What Steve said down below!
He did get a chance to answer the question but instead he chose to waffle and talk a load of rubbish! All I learnt from the interview is that his father was a farmer and he bought some cake off a woman in a cafe! Oh and he loves the sound of his own voice…even with an accent like that!
It was a sad night for Norris. He rambled incoherently, failed to show any remorse and clearly doesn’t even have the support of he people he had before he pulled out. There’s not going to be a comeback. It’s all over for Norris. He should have had the decency to stay out of the contest.
Exactly. And no policies except for ‘what he has achieved’ – basically hooks for hands..
Get a life Bob. Policies! They are in detail (in fact in more detail than any other candidate) on his original website. The real shame is the fact that this man has not been nominated and yet county council morons are falling over themselves to nominate people who nobody has ever heard off ( and this was happening prior to the so-called controversy surrounding Senator Norris)
If that’s the start of a comeback God help Ireland. Disgusted to hear that he even mentioned his potential for Irish presidency in that letter. Shifting in his seat, dodging questions. Are these the qualities of a president. Far from it…..
Mr Conway.
Norris did do a lot in regards to the rights for gay people in this country, no one has disputed that.
What is norris’s definition of disabled? Deaf, blind,limbless, dwarf etc?
Albeit these people may find it more difficult to find a partner, it does not mean it is impossible.
I have many friends with varying disabilities, most of them are in free relationships.
To suggest that prostitution should be made legal so that a disabled person can achieve sexual pleasure is both degrading and and offending. The vast majority of people who use the services of a prostitute are able bodied people.
Where is the concern for the rights of the prostitute but you will probably tell me that they provide this service willingly and do not suffer emotionally or physically from it.
I cannot change the way in which some ignorant people treat a disabled person but what I will continue to do is treat everyone with the same respect.
Head and shoulders above the other clowns for me,looking forward to the media scrutinising the others to the same degree ,wont hold breath on that mind you,best of luck Mr Norris.
His “performance” tonight was not a confident one – but that’s only because he is basically an honest man, a sensitive man, who wears his heart on his sleeve and his form on his face. Of course the events of the recent past – the ghosts of his distant past – have made him a vulnerable figure. Notwithstanding all of that, he is still the only candidate made of true presidential material. I hope he gets his name on the ballot paper. Whatever the electorate decides we can at least say democracy prevailed. Like the man said “nodoby is perfect”. Why should a potential president be expected to be more perfect than anyone else ? Let him without sin cast the first stone.
True Presidential material? please elaborate…………
Yes, of course I will elaborate. We want, as President, someone to represent us as a nation on a global scale. There are several qualifications for this high profile and exacting task : 1. Someone who is educated, informed, well versed and able to articulate eloquently and persuasively on any topic 2. Someone who “looks the part” – who has the physical demeanour and appearance of an ambassador for our country. 3. Somebody we can send around the world to meet and greet foreign dignitaries , heads of state etc. and who will do so with perfect etiquette 4. Someone who will come across as a personable individual, with a sense of pride in his country and who has the personality to endear him/herself to most , if not all people with whom he/she comes into contact……..shall I go on or do you get the picture ? Think carefully before you answer this question : can you seriously name ANY OTHER SINGLE CANDIDATE who possesses all and more of these sort of qualities ? Be realistic and be honest but please don’t be homophobic. Judge the man on the PERSON he is, not on his sexual persuasion.
Yet again the Norris fanboy tactic of suggesting anyone opposed to him is somehow anti-gay. Pathetic tactic.
So now it’s the “ghosts of his distant past” that are to blame? God everything is being blamed for his failure except the fact that he has no problem with people (I presume of any sex, or is he anti-homophobic?) having sex with young boys.
@Aine Clinton
Ahem first of all yes he is anti-homophobic I can tell you that for nothing.
Second if you got your news from anywhere but the daily mail I don’t see how you could possibly think he promotes child-rape you tit and he has fought for industrial school rape survivors and child abuse victims on many cases.
Your wilful ignorance is quite disturbing
Michael D Higgins. He’s intelligent, a very good orator, and a long time friend of the arts.
@John Conway
Firstly why do you assume that I am judging the man on his sexual persuasion? I never have seen that as having any bearing on whether to vote against him or for him.
As to your list of qualifications, I personally believe that Michael D Higgins possesses all of those and has more to offer to the country overall and for that reason he will get my vote.
Nothing homophobic about it, just being realistic and honest.
@ Mark Connolly : “Pathetic reply”
Conor Murphy what is it with people like you who have to resort to name-calling because you can’t argue your point coherently? I presume you had the foresight to read the transcript of Norris’ original interview, or maybe one shouldn’t presume…
@aine clinton
I didn’t ‘call names’ I said you’re wilfully ignorant. As in you say something which is obviously wrong or misleading but it suits your point of view to believe and continue along your merry way with it.
I read the interview and he was having a conversation about something which he shouldn’t have even discussed in public because its impossible to have an adult discussion about paedophilia with basically anyone in this country. I read it and the letter and have no real issue with either. It is a minor point to hang the presidency on for me.
I’m finished with this topic now though. And I will most definitely not affect your point of view so see ya.
@ Conor Murphy..so if you don’t agree with someones comment the comment is wrong….wow that’s powerful, you should use that for world good maybe?
And you’re right, you won’t affect my point of view, nor anyone else’s I’d imagine little man :)
So basically Norris truly felt he shouldn’t have stood down in the first place, does that not make him a hypocrite?
If you stand down, stay down
He stood down because he was being polite, not because he, or his supporters wanted him to do it. It’s a sensitive topic, but statutory rape does not mean non-consensual (I’m not condoning rape, I’m merely arguing semantics). Teens “commit” statutory rape of each other all the way through secondary school, and there were plenty of girls I knew sleeping with MUCH older men.
Let’s not forget Gay Mitchell appealed for clemency for an anti-abortion fanatic who murdered two people…
If Norris has to stand down because asking for clemency means his condones rape, shouldn’t Mitchell stand down because he condones murder?
Being polite? I don’t think so, he stood down because he was forced to.
Norris also condoned a disabled person using a prostitute, This man can come across well educated and intelligent but then he comes out with ridiculous statements oh and letters.
I suppose it is impossible for a disabled person to find someone willing to have sex with them for free though….isn’t it Norris?
@Evelyn Finnegan : Have you got some unusual fetish you’d like to tell us all about ? True and very cruel (because life is cruel) is the fact that a disabled young person would find it very difficult to go to a nightclub and realistically expect to be a crowd puller. (This is just an example, yes I know there are other ways of meeting a potential mate). People are generally kind to the disabled (albeit in a condescending way, ie. an inverted form of prejudice) but how many would really want to shag someone with no legs for example ? They have physical needs too and if only a prostitute will fulfill them then maybe it makes a good case for the existence of that profession. I had a close friend who took his own life because of a physical deformity – not too many people went out if their way to conceal their “disgust” at his appearance. Like I said, the world is a big, impersonal and cruel place for many people. Nobody will know that better than a young homosexual male (or female) who lived through the 70′s and 80′s (or previous decades when things were far far worse ). If David Norris achieved nothing else he made Ireland a more bearable place for gay people to live in instead of having to leave their homes and families to live anonymously in places like London or New York). Now tell me, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO TO MAKE IT A MORE BEARABLE PLACE FOR THE DISABLED TO LIVE IN ?????????????
I throw my two cents and say he learnt a lesson in media control and did much better tonight. Thuogh he did start off rough. He got much better dealt with the pederasty thing very well in a personal and sensible context and if he gets the signatures I think he will get a lot of votes.
yes, by not answering it
He avoided any straight answer of the hard questions. Everything about David Norris is as clear as mud after that. Bar the few lunatics on here and twitter etc I can’t see how he won any extra votes after that performance.
Was Norris the only person in Ireland who didn’t know he was going to be on the Late Late tonight. I am a fan of his, don’t get me wrong. I appreciate he will give the role something different to what else is on offer and of course tones and tones of energy. But he seemed totally unprepared for the questions. AGAIN! I presumed the whole appearance on the Late Late was to answer the questions directly, give good to generic answers so everyone would decide it was time to move on and then he would be in with a shout at the presidency. But he seemed surprised and even annoyed with the questions. I think Tubs is a prick and has an agenda with guests. His personal opinion comes into how he treats people, which is wrong for a program like the Late Late BUT hard questions had to be asked… and Norris didn’t handle them very well. I actually give up on the race. It’s kinda beyond a frickin joke now. The politicians should not be the ones to chose who we get to vote on. The system is a sham.
And goodnight.
Hope Springs Eternal
Micheal Martin ought now to release his Deputies and Senators, to support whomever they believe should be represented on the ballot paper. It ought to be a matter of personal deliberation. Denying them and the Irish people the maximum of choice, is the signal that will consign his Party to complete irrelevance.
They may not vote for him in October, but they should facilitate his name being on the ballot paper. In the final analysis the people are Sovereign, or so the Constitution states.
There is a short window of opportunity in which the will of the people can be vindicated. That a man who holds such a considerable swathe of popular opinion will be allowed to bare himself before the people. That they should be the ultimate arbitrators of his Candidacy. Now that’s Democracy, and we ought to have it no other way.
Ryan Tubridy is an irritating ill mannered lout. This guy is an embarrassment to RTE, when are they going to get rid of him? It is amazing that this idiot can get anyone to appear on the Late Late show. Norris did very well despite having to deal with that pompous Turdbudy .
Joe, you left out the words “well-connected”.
Martin McGuinness for President
So the news with Norris is: there is no news. Pity it’s not Chuck Norris…
Having ‘first commet’ is becoming tired and boring, if I may say so
*comment
If Joe Soap on the street claimed that there was nothing wrong with the statutory rape of a 15 year old boy then he would be ousted from society. Yet this little snake is using it as a publicity stunt for his campaign and people are still cheering him on.
Can Irish people really be that stupid?
@Lauren
Pleading for clemency is not tantamount to saying there’s nothing wrong with statutory rape. Would you say Gay Mitchell thinks there’s nothing wrong with murder over his appeals for clemency? It’s an appeal for leniency, a character reference essentially. Not condoning what Norris did (think Mitchell’s actions were a bit more understandable considering the death penalty was likely) but let’s not twist the facts here.
@Brian Perhaps it’s not tantamount on it’s own but coupled with the quote ” there can be something said for it” regarding paedophilia one would have to raise more than an eyebrow at this mans character.
Also having looked at his own blow there appears to be numerous photos with Norris surrounded by children. Could this be innocent? Yes of course, but would I take the chance leaving this man alone with my kids after everything that has come to light about him? Certainly not. Would I support his run for presidency? Absolutely not.
You said it yourself with regards Gay Mitchell’s appeal. If he was quoted as saying something similar to what Norris had said relating to murder, like “there could be something said for it” then I would definitely not support his run for presidency either.
His own blog that should be.
David Norris struggled with all the tough questions and alot of the answers are what he thinks we want to hear, i was very uncomfortable watching and cant get past HIS WORDS in that letter , he is also totally wrong his comeback would be the greatest ever in politics, Charlie Haughey to become taoiseach after the arms trial will never be beaten, unless Brian Cowen returns as Taoiseach. Our country is gone crazy, Norris thinks the only thing his ex did wrong was being caught having sex with a 15year old boy, Gallagher will sell supermarket openings to the highest bidder and probably be sponsored by products if gets to the aras, and now IRA kingpin has entered the race, Nuts. I ask you…..
well you said it . your dam right. what next . do we need a president in the first place . we have a lot of hand shakers and smiler’s as it is . we cant afford any of this . this is one cut back . let it start there . or bestow it to a good person . that has no baggage that has done good for the country . and give them there expenses. scrap the house in the park . let people go and visit it . it would make a great hospital for sick children. .. and save a lot of money . and easy to get to no hold ups . the people are sick of this crap by now and have better things to think of . live living from day to day . and paying there bills . our country is fecked and is this all we can think about .omg. . i will not vote for this crap . or any one . we are well known all over the world now for what we are and why ?.its like gob shits wasting money going abroad for Patrick’s day and not a dam think to show for it . just a big piss up .and treating there cronies . big men my arse . we don’t need that kind of representing . great talkers and nothing more. its time to start walking the walk now and cut the crap . we have to get this country back on the road .. and the people of Ireland to make a stand . when will we ever learn if ever . i have said this before . cut out the cancer or we will die from it. we have been sold out again . but no more . rise up now before its to late . god help us to help ourselves … good man Mr.Mc fadden …yours.
The choices we have for this election are pityful ! I can’t see a stand out candidate.
The only way to decide this race is to put them all through the most stringent tests known to man. We need to see them dancing on ice, negotiating a place in the sun, competing in Irish dancing, cooking a meal that Gordon Ramsey doesn’t deem a nightmare, driving a truck across ice roads, firing a bank executive, donating an expense cheque, and doing a wife swap (not sure what Norris will do on that one). Whoever comes out of that should be able to run for president. Otherwise, I’ll keep looking on eBay for a candidate.
Although I haven’t yet watched the Late Late interview, I just want to raise a point that has been bothering me, and that has been touched upon in the above discussion. That is, that the two “smears” perpetrated against David Norris (his alleged comments on pederasty in ancient Greece and his letter pleading for clemency for Ezra Nawi) have the distinct character of deliverately connecting ideas of homosexuality and paedophilia. Add to this the fact that ONLY Norris was targetted for smears – the last time I remember this happening in an Irish presential campaign was against Adie Roche, another popular, active and liberal candidate. I have also yet to come across any discussion on what the future held for Ezra Nawi if convicted of homosexual statutary rape in Israel? If you knew of a country that had disproprortionately harsher sentences for members of a stigmatised minority, would you not use whatever position you had to try to change this? I must add that I don’t know for certain that this is or was the case in Israel, but it is not beyond the bounds of possibility. Norris never said he supported Nawi’s actions – his wish was to ensure that the sentence was not overly harsh. If anyone does have information on this aspect, please do reply.
Overall, it is a bit sickening that there is still the underlying suspicion of homosexual men automatically being paedophiles. Let’s remember legal definitions here – 30 years ago in Ireland, a 25 year old man having consensual sex with a 20 year old man would have been guilty of statutary rape.
You completely miss the point. Intentionally or not I don’t know. He clearly abused (or attempted to abuse) his position and showed a shocking lack of judgement. From what I can see it’s his supporters who are trying to turn this into a issue based on sexuality. Re-entering the race, to me, shows Norris’s delusion and ego and personally I suspect that he always intended to re-enter once the heat had died down. I can’t see him being elected.
You clearly don’t remember Mary McAleese being called a "tribal time bomb" by Eoghan Harris and the general hysteria around her candidacy, particularly as I recall,from FG quarters.That was a real smear campaign because it was utterly baseless. I have read the entire Norris letter to the Israeli Court and to describe it simply as a "plea for clemency" is unduly lenient to Norris .I recommend to people on all sides to read it and then see what they think. One characteristic of Norris that comes through from the letter and in my opinion also from the Late Late Show ( which disgraced itself by giving him preferential treatment, regardless of the inclusion of a few semi-hard questions) is the overwhelming self-regard of the man.Luvvie-duvvie talk about apple tarts and meringues in Ramelton (pie in the sky?) can’t hide the impression that this u-turn is entirely about David and his personal ambition and to hell with the potential consequences for the credibility of the Presidential campaign or the office of President or indeed for the credibility of those of his erstwhile campaign team and prospective nominators who felt they could no longer support him. Having tacitly accepted their judgment when he withdrew he now tears that acceptance in pieces and throws it in the faces of those "friends" (I won’t pretend I’ll shed any tears for any of them but they are being treated shabbily by their once-fallen hero). Anyway Sen Norris is back in the centre of attention where he seems at his happiest and he will have many more opportunities to tell us all what a great fellow he is over the next few weeks. It was said by many when he withdrew in the first place that Ireland had dodged a bullet.It looks like the ricochet might get us yet!
Very good point!
I think he done well but with all the tough talk enda done on the church, what would it look like if we voted in a president that pleaded for clemency for middle aged man that had sex with a 15 year old boy?
If anyone wants to read the letter it can be found here :- http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0730/norrisletter.pdf
Let’s not use this story as a roundabout method of making the Church look one bit less evil, Diego. Bear in mind that Sen. Norris didn’t instigate a mass cover-up of thousands of cases of sexual abuse worldwide, he pleaded for clemency (i.e. leniency in sentencing of a man already convicted). You could hardly equate the two.
Mr Norris screwed up on the late late. Mr mcguiness is the only candidate with credentials in my view. Anyone who can tame a bigot like paisley deserves respect
You’re joking. Anyone who votes for mcguinness needs their head examined. Adams makes me sick but my god I cannot believe the gall of Sinn Fein to think that we’ll welcome mcguinness with open arms
Oh yes because mcguinness has skeletons in his closet or blood on his hands.if you condemn norris and at the same time vote mcguinness is a hypocrite of the highest degree
Louise the bigot is up out of bed, how many people were murdered because of mcguiness?
I’d love to hear you explain what a "real man" is to you?
I think he would make a good President. But unfortunately I have no say despite living in a democracy.
The truth about David Norris is that he abused his political position and his partner abused a minor. Two wrongs.abuse is abuse. We can’t be hoodwinked. We must always protect our children, they are the future. Did Norris write a letter suggesting that his partner should pay for therapy for the minor involved? I bet he didn’t. His attitude sickens me and his explaination. Annoys me. What will his next campaign be. Handle all paedophiles with care and forget about the victims.
I hope Gay Mitchell’s attitude sickens you too. Unless you consider one consensual but illegal relationship worse than the murder of several people and the rape of a dying 18 year old.
Another what about Gay comment Brian. The situation is completely different. He wrote asking for clemency for convicts on death row regularly as a matter of principle, not because one of them was his ex-lover. Norris’s letter was of the ‘I’m so important, be nice to my friend’ type that our political system is so well known for. I not a Mitchell supporter, far from it.
I was all for Norris before his campaign came to an end.
After hearing he might be staging a comeback I thought good for him.
Whilst scrolling down through these comments I was thumb upping comments in favour of him.
But after reading the letters that Diego linked to I’ve changed my mind completely, not just because of the act of writing a letter of clemency for a man who committed a terrible act but because I think alot of his personality shines through in his letters.
All this talk of Ezra being a loyal friend and a good plumber, and how highly he (Norris) is regarded not only in Ireland but "internationally" just deflects from the crime committed and seems almost juvenile.
I won’t be voting.
The letter is a disgrace, rambling self indulgence and he attempted to justify statutory rape citing it would not be taken too seriously in Ireland. Mmm as shown by the Catholic church. I used to think I’d vote for him too. Also as a senator he has a role in the law making process. But openly belittles the law in his letter.
Hmmm….poll leader for presidency made questionable comments in past which were published, then used state paper to plead for ex lover (while explicity mentioning his position in Irish society and refers to presidency)who was found guilty of having a sexual relationship with a minor (‘consensual’ or not) – if the media didn’t raise this, they wouldn’t be doing their job. His problem is that he hasn’t given a satisfactory answer, and he failed again. He seemed a little taken by himself tonight, it’s possible the support he received is clouding his judgement. Not a good sign in any presidential candidate. Is he our new Roy Keane – ‘at the end of the day, all credit to pederasty’. When you’re explaining, you’re losing….
Well said Tommy, how can anyone vote for McGuinness, this man ordered people to be killed. Yes the war is over but you can’t forget what certain people did.
Vote McGuinness-because you can! Talking about voting for Norris is pointless as he won’t even get the 20 signature. Especially after the Late Late show where he was exposed as a liar! "I wasn’t thinking about running for president when I wrote that letter". Yet in the letter it says you were. What a sneaky little man. Martin McGuinness is a real man. A hero!
Louise, martin mcguinness may have had a direct hand in the planning of the enniskillen massacre. In fact, its nearly certain he did. You know that right? martin mcguinness has the blood of men, women and children on his hands. It’s right that he has taken the political path, and that he is helping shape the north politically.
But there is no way, no way that man can become our president. He would be titular head of the armed forces. That can’t happen.
Martin McGuinness=hero???….are you on drugs?
0/10, getting bored of these…
It’s funny everyone I’ve met or have seen that doesn’t like David Norris always "I don’t have a problem with him being gay" sorry I don’t buy it. I now hear Martin McGuiness is running, a man who used to be a terrorist ! What happens if he becomes president, will he refuse to meet the Queen if she has another state visit ?!
Paul, the war is over, move on.
What a great message it would send to the world if a man who turned away from violence was elected President.
I saw a brief segment of the interview tonight, so I am not making reference to Mr. Norris or his comments, but I am questioning the media publicity of the candidates. Yes, Mr. Norris was involved in quite a lot of media interest due to the departure and now his entry into the race for the Áras, and his presence on television was quite understandable, but I wonder will there be (or is there) some sort of broadcast debate or televised event showcasing the candidates?
I particularly enjoyed the political debates on television for the last election, and despite not being a UK resident, I enjoyed the spectacle of the televised political debates in Great Britain: it was great to see candidates being asked questions, sharing their thoughts and values, and being able to instantly identify who sat on a certain issue and who took the opposite stance, as it happened. I am wondering, will there be an opportunity to see the candidates, once finalised, in the same room, declaring to the nation as to why they should be the next President of the country.
Without bringing up doom and gloom, I think it is important that we get to see exactly who we are voting for, how they stand on political, social and economical issues, just as we would any member of the Dáil. This is a very different Ireland to what it used to be, a very different time even from the inauguration of our soon-to-depart Mary McAleese. It’s going to be seven very challenging years, but with a broadcast debate we could see exactly who we would like, who we feel would be the best for the job, who would best represent us in those seven upcoming years and who we would be proud to call our Uachtarán na hÉireann.
David tends to action based on his emotional feelings rather than rational thought, hence the letter he wrote seeking clemency for his friend/ex partner.
I believe that if the youth in question was a 15 year old female the issue would not be looked favourably upon my the vast majority of people.
This has nothing to do with anyone’s sexuality, it’s about what is right and what is wrong
I think your mistaken there. That’s it’s a sexual encounter between two males, would indicate to me that the majority of people, i.e the heterosexual majority of people, (discounting those often awkward findings from various studies that unsettle and animate a number of people, studies by such notable people as Dr Kinsey, but also many more modern studies which indicate the extend of sexual variation within society) find it more difficult to compute sexual relations, the physical acts, between two people of the same-sex.
I am acknowledging here that the encounter was totally and completely inappropriate, not to mention illegal. The boy being 15 and therefore whatever consent was given, was null and void by the fact he was underage to give accent to such consent. But my argument with your statement is with regards to society’s perception of same-sex acts. As opposed to your argument that, had it been an act between people of the opposite sex, then the sanction from society would be more serve. I have to profoundly disagree.
Sorry my dear but you’ve got it wrong. If it were a woman there would have been less press because it would have been heterosexual connotations. This event was sendtionalised by the media to marry homosexuality and paedophilia in the same light as they have attempted to do for the last couple of months. This goes to show the lack of understanding and intellect present in this country. Progressive Ireland, my arse!
Sorry Edward but it’s the exact opposite. If Norris has written a letter for someone convicted of the statutory rape of a 15 year old girl the question of his candidacy would be utterly over.
here’s a suggestion: why not suspend the presidendicy for 2 to 3 years until this country gets back on its feet. Use the money saved to pay for special needs assistants or for more beds in hospitals. Maybe by then we could have an election without it turning into a farce like it has done now. Anyone for this idea?
I back that idea Barbara.
Norris is a fraud. Read the letter here: http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0730/norrisletter.pdf
His letter is a disgrace, he dodged every question tubridy asked hmi, he is a jumped up senator who has spent the last 10 years gasbagging in the Senate, picking up a fat salary for doing fuck all.
If you want an egotistical bluffer as President give him your vote.
In the letter Norris states the following:
A rapist in Ireland who pleads quilty would receive a non custodial sentence, LIAR!
Norris is a person of some consequence. LIAR
He was elected, strictly true but disingenuous.
He insinuates that homosexual rape is a lesser crime than hetrosexual rape. LIAR
He states that he was responsible for the overturning of the Irish laws making homosexuality illegal. LIAR
Its ok to offer money to the victim in return for a lenient sentence. Find a poor boy, rape him and bribe him?
In my opinion, this is not the sort of person we should have representing us.
He alos holds strong pro Israeli principles, again is this what Ireland want to be associated with?
He was responsible for bringing the government to European court and making homosexuality legal in Ireland
“He states that he was responsible for the overturning of the Irish laws making homosexuality illegal. LIAR”
Read please: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norris_v._Ireland
I find it difficult to understand how any one can defend norris’s letter, as it shows through out the letter that he is clearly trying to use his standing in ireland to influence the judges sentencing. The first half of the letter is all about how brillent he is and all the things he is involved in, ant the 2nd half of the letter is all about why there should be a dismissal of the trial or at the very least a non custodial sentence.
He uses the irish justice system on a number of occasions In his seceondly, thirdly, fourthly, fifthly, eighly, and tenthly he talks about how the sentence if in Ireland would more than likely be non custodial, or would lead to a dismissal of the case.
And the last sentence in the letter says it all, as he would see it as justice if the person in question was to receive a non custodial sentence, in my opinion that is not justice.
And the last sentence of the letter “I earnestly beg that the court may see the possibility of securing Justice by not sending him to prison but by imposing a non custodial sentence
David Norris has insulted the intelligence of the Irish people by basically saying ‘I withdrew from the race because I made a grave error of judgment and I got caught out. Oh wait, the other candidates are still crap, I might still have a chance of becoming President after all’.
It’s a cynical cop-out by a man who clearly considers himself to be above mere mortals like the rest of us.
Let’s all just say it together : Michael D.
Fine man, well read, performs street poetry, founded tg4, good orator, intelligent, well respected, looks the part.
Michael D Higgins is going to be our next president.
When you read the letter Norris sent, you cannot escape the sense that his character is flawed. I could not give two tinkers damn what his orientation is. I mean that. But the manner of the letter, the vibe of the man, he’s not fit for presidential office. He just isn’t.
consider this for one moment. Imagine a young man, say around 30 years of age. Imagine he was abused at about 14 or 15. say for a moment his abuser was convicted, but his Israeli boyfriend happened to be a senator in Isreal who wrote to a Justice in the High Court looking for clemency… which by the way means to let him go, not to reduce sentance. I would suggest the abused would be fairly hurt by it. Now let us further suppose Norris was elected, would that not be an insult to the thousands of abuse survivors..? I notice how RTE quashed marie collins interview which was critical of Norris
Brian a chara I don’t condone gay Mitchells interference either. We have to protect all victims and their families. Norris and Mitchell have the right words to put on empty pages. Nothing else. They have no shame or remorse for their actions. I will never truly understand their motives. They should both be booted out.
Personally I don’t think they should be both booted out. I would like to see democratic principles in play here – i.e. give the people of Ireland the chance to decide. I’m sure the people of Ireland are able to decide for themselves who they wish to see as our figurehead. Having said that, I don’t think either Norris or Mitchell should be President. I think the idea of writing clemency letters for convicted felons in foreign jurisdictions is simply wrong. Particularly when one wrote a letter in support of a convicted paedophile, and the other in support of a murdering rapist. I am not in favour of the death penalty, but simply writing in letters for a select few that were sentenced to death won’t do anything. If Mitchell was in favour of the abolition of the death penalty he would be lobbying the US Senate and House of Representatives, and not a select group of inmates. What I do have a problem with is certain groups of people using Norris’ letter against him while ignoring the letters written by Mitchell.
At Brian, I am wondering if you can show me a letter by Gay Mitchell where he asks for any of the people convicted to receive a non custodial sentence, from my understanding of his letters he has for the people in question to be taken off death row, he didnt ask for them not to go the prison.
This is the last sentence of the letter which Noris wrote“ I earnestly beg that the court may see the possibility of securing Justice by not sending him to prison but by imposing a non custodial sentence”
I dont know how anyone could defend norris seeing it as justice for the person in question not to get a custodial sentence.
Here is the letter by norris if you want to take the time to read it, http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0730/norrisletter.pdf
Go away Norris
Why doesn’t he feck off for good?
HIS usual pompous self, an ego like a jackass in spring.
Bye Bye Dorris…He is a scary man
Norris in no ways condones paedophilia. This is the biggest and most disgusting lie of all. His actions were still absolutely immoral. Ezra abused his seniority in relation to the 15 year old and should, and was, punished for that act.
“in terms of classic paedophilia, as practised by the Greeks, for example, where it is an older man introducing a younger man to adult life, there can be something said for it”
Enough said the mans a scary creep and should not be let from under his rock nevermind into the Áras
Norris is missinterpeting Plato. Plato abhored pedercrasty
I’m fed up with this Martin McGuinness terrorist BS. Seriously. The British labeled Nelson Madela a terrorist and I’m sure they said the same about Dev and Collins. I’ll not be voting for him but it’s not because he took up a gun in the name of politics. I also think that anyone one with an irish passport should be able to vote for president especially those in the north. I want Norris to stand because he is a real liberal.
You’re funny. Did you just compare mcguinness and Mandela? You are a funny man.
What an incredible bunch of candidates we have at the moment! Dreadful. If only we could have someone of real quality to enter the fray. Norris should stay out. Hope, hope, hope we can get a ‘real’ alternative.
What was that about elitism and narcissism?
O’ Driscoll for president!
I completely agree with Barbara McGovern. Put this whole election on hold. Agreed, we can’t, in the present recessionary climate, afford this Presidential election anyway.
Some of the comments from subscribers to this debate are downright objectionable and are tantamount to inciting hate.
I certainly will not be contributing further to this debate where some people stoop so low and reduce their argument to the level of guttersniping.
REPOST:
I’m just seeing the same arguments here as we’ve seen before on this issue (mostly from the same people making the same points over and again in this debate). It seems to me those who don’t like Norris for whatever reason will not and never will change their stance on him even being allowed into the race, but those who do support him or at least respect his democratic right to be included in the race at least seem to have a better overall perspective on the issue of what real democracy ‘should’ look like. A personal dislike of someone does not disqualify them from the running, Norris broke no laws and is recognized internationally as an advocated of human rights. That said watching the Late Late Show interview last night he did not, in my opinion, come across very well. He told tales, he dodged and dived answering questions and when put on the spot he then hid for cover, he showed very little courage in his convictions and seemed to simply say whatever would cause the least harm to what remained of his potential support base.
I cringed at some of the questioned asked of Norris because I knew there was no right answer he could give, so many issues cropped up that were either not dealt with at all or were not answered sufficiently well enough for them to go away. This show has an average viewership of over 800,000 and I suppose that last night for his interview far more tuned in ( hell I’m in Norway and I watched it online), for me this was a missed opportunity for Norris, had he come out and been straight ( forgive the pun) with the audience and given his honest account of things without ambling on he could well have swayed many more people to forgive and forget. But he didn’t do that and that’s where I think he’ll loose this battle. People who like Norris like him for who he is, last night he was not that man!
Oh right! So he wasn’t being himself last night, is that it? Can you hear yourself? Seriously!
@ Rommel, not in my opinion no he wasn’t quite himself. My opinion is based on the fact that I’ve actually had the pleasure of meeting David Norris on two occasions in the past 2 years and on another occasion I was an audience member for a debate on Civil Partnership in which he was a guest speaker at my University. On each of these occasions David had impressed me with his wit ,intellect and charm. I came to see him not just as a gay man who campaigned on gay rights but a man who stood up for the rights of all those who’s interests weren’t being looked after by the establishment.
He’s a well educated and intelligent man but the way he came across last Friday night was not what I had previously seen him as, even up to the point where he previously withdrawn he had held his nerve and been at least honest and to the point in his public appearances, but not on last Fridays Late Late where he seemed unnerved, flustered, agitated, uncertain and a little frustrated to be honest. Up to this he has had my full support as a candidate and if he gets on the ballot I will still consider him, the only thing thats changed for me is that now I’m questioning whether he really is the man who I came to respect and defend over these past two years.
dustin the turkey for vice-president
Are we all gone mad we cannot afford a President why dont they all stand down
I`m sure Fine Gael and Labour will think long and hard now about supporting Norris to take votes away from Mc Guinness, but is a very risky strategy. I won`t vote for any of them, FF could not have handled it worse, I want Sharon Ni Bheolain as my president, has class, brilliant at looking down the lens of a camera and speaking to the nation, can promote irish language and the arts, etc etc. Oh and is the small matter of her being gorgeous.
Guard of Honor, feck off your not looking at my arse,
I suggest we give the ‘Race for the Aras’ the respect it deserves and select our next president through the medium of reality television. I can see the proposal to RTE’s commissioning editors now, it would tick all their boxes.
There is an anti-Norris website called http://www.davidnorris4president.com It openly claims to be homophobic. It also claims there is no genetic basis to homosexuality and refers one to a web site arguing this point. The headline on the site is “Exposing the Myth of Evolution”. …..Cretins!
Senator Norris would be a tremendous candidate and a brilliant President!
I suggest we give the â
Miss Norris on the late late show,here is some of what ……Thanks for the laugh Hic!
I believe that most of the people posting here with extremely anti-Norris views are indeed homophobic. Some clearly are.
To dislike Norris so much when he is a very decent hardworking advocate for the rights of disadvantaged people can only be as a result of being homophobic. David was a great supporter of the Birmingham Six campaign for example and could hardly be described as a SF supporter.
The point made above about Gay Mitchell facing no abuse or attack because he wrote in support of a convicted murderer proves that the attacks on Norris for writing a similar letter are homophobic.
Gay men make up about 4% of the male population and were not alone discriminated against in Ireland but could be JAILED for having a normal sexual relationship with each other.
Norris single handed caused not just the law to be changed, but the attitude of many people towards homosexuality. Homosexual men are born that way. To be anti-homosexual is a sign of deep stupidity. You have to only look at the morons in the US who campaign against gay rights to realise this.
PS Tubridy is a total cretin. It pained me to watch him interview Norris.
Jesus wept!
To dislike norris is not homophobic. Why the fu*k do his supporters keep throwing this crap at people who simply don’t believe he is the best candidate.
I just happen to believe he is a pompous ass, who has a tendency to engage his mouth before engaging his brain, And yes i do agree that he has done a lot of good in terms of human rights but for me he is not the person i would like to see as president.
Rommel, I said “extremely anti-Norris views”. Not “dislike”. Not, “don’t believe he is the best candidate”. I didn’t use the word “extremely” for no reason.
You obviously do not hate Norris and you do accept he has “done a lot for human rights”.
Why is he pompous? Have you a problem with his accent? He is a gay west Brit after all…… I think you engaged your mouth before your brain as it so happens, or you would have read what I said more carefully. :)
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